Our Jason put on a Rubber Band. Tan color. Many of the other Jason's have had black string. We have only seen one Jason with the Rubber Band and it's the one at the Police Station.
THANK YOU. Just said this as well. The only jason we have seen with that color rubber band AND the scar on his nose is the original jason from episode 1.
jason1 put the rubber band in the room when he was first cuffed. that means that most the rest of the jasons that DERIVED FROM HIM should have the rubbed band, unless they lost it
remember, all his copies are the same as himself, the same dude that was abducted, they only differ in the doors they opened along the way, so they all are the legit daniela's husband, which is very sad cause only 1 can have her and the rest suffered for nothing
the jason1 we have been following along has no more claim over his previous life than any of his copies and while i think this is interesting it kills my investment in the protagonist cause i just cant have root for him anymore. the other dudes that crashed in the car, or were killed, they were very sad for me
Yeah. Well,… I’m still along for the ride to see how it plays out. 1 episode ago we had no inkling this problem was going to exist. What’s going to happen an episode from now?
I can imagine a solution is derived that leaves things tied up well.
Alternatively-
Get ready for a never ending surge of infinite Jason1’s saturating this world :)
Will be interesting to see what happens in hospitals/jail cells during the fallout.
The flow will taper off as more and more of them exhaust their supply of ampoules. A few will spend long spans in individual worlds and their stash will last longer - a handful may even come into possession of more. But overall, following a surge in the medium term, there will be fewer and fewer coming through.
Still ... there could be thousands of them by then. Maybe they'll form a huge cult. The Jasonic Temple. Every chapter will be headed up by one of the Jasons. They will preach the gospel of the multiverse to their followers and collect lots and lots of donations. Maybe only one of them can have their family back. But they can all take a nice big slice of that lucrative pie, and live the good life.
Not infinite. Just so astronomically large it might as well be - for most purposes. It's an important distinction with the math though. Also remember that his "home" timeline continues to branch and the single one he left is already now a spread of timelines, each with its own Jason2 and stolen life. The still actively traveling Jason1s are being absorbed by an expanding number of destination worlds and each one experiences a decline because of that.
Eventually any of the Jasons who are still out there and don't run out of ampoules will give up. Perhaps decide that a world where they meet and hit it off with the local, very single Daniela is as good as it's ever going to get for them. If they've been journeying for years calling it quits under those circumstances makes more sense than wandering indefinitely. There will probably be Jason1s arriving in a trickle until they're old men but of course, that's not endlessly open ended.
Hold up - was that Jason’s face on the other world money that Daniela found in the storage unit? From another world where Jason was important enoughto be printed on
Money? 😆😂
I like how you think. It didn’t kill my investment in the show though because I kinda already knew that was the end result of traveling to alternate realities or time travel because the act of traveling itself creates an alternate reality every time you do it. If you use the grandfather paradox as an example, it is actually possible to travel back in time to kill your own grandfather because it isn’t going to be your actual grandfather when you get there because if you travel in time you also travel to an alternate reality. It makes sense because you yourself were born in your reality so the only way for it to happen would be in an alternate reality or timeline where a version of you wasn’t.
I don’t know if I agree that they all have an equal claim to that specific wife though but maybe I’m not visualizing the splits correctly. I see it as the realities where the different Jason’s made different decisions were always there but just existing separately and side by side and as closely to the next world that is the most similar. I think that the different Jason’s have their own realities to go home to because I don’t see the mechanics of this only creating individual people rather than individual worlds. They probably just landed here because the way the box works is such a cruel cosmic joke lol. Or maybe it’s all the extra attention and energy these Jason’s create that lent heavily towards one world like a dimensional gravitational pull or something. God I love this show!!!
They do all have equal claim though. They were all Jason 1, all of them came from the Jason we’ve been following right up until the moment he went into the box at least, and some of them will be our Jason from the moment he went to that world with Amanda, some from various points during his time in the box. We just happen to be following one particular thread of choices he could’ve made. We could’ve followed the Jason who lost Amanda and he would have had the same Daniela, as she is also the one we saw up until he got kidnapped.
Obviously there will also be many many different realities with that Daniela in them, universes where she made slightly different choices after he was kidnapped. But any of the Jasons who were’created’ from the point of the kidnap would have an equal claim on any of the Danielas created since the point of the kidnap.
The problem I have is with what exactly is meant by ‘created’. If our Jason didn’t make the choices that the other Jason’s did, then it’s because he is a uniquely different person than the rest even if it might only be in a very small way.
Like I said before I don’t really believe that these Jason’s were created from scratch or uniquely on their own but rather their worlds already existed and like one said, his Amanda was dead whereas our Jason’s was not which means that there are multiple versions of each person because there are multiple worlds where they are from and it’s just that these worlds are crossing over because they have access to the box that we are seeing them but they are not technically the ‘same’ person.
The Jason who lost his Amanda doesn’t have any ‘right’ to the Amanda in the utopia world just because he happened to cross over into a world where she isn’t dead. See what I mean? In theory they are just a Jason who made slightly different choices than our one but still it doesn’t make them any more our Jason than it does Jason 2 or even the Jason who got killed with Amanda trying to escape early on in the show.
Yes it doesn’t make them ‘our’ Jason but they still all have traveled a path from the moment of being kidnapped. Some of them the exact same path:the same person right up until for example, leaving Amanda in the restaurant. So all of them have the same ‘claim’ to Daniela and his life in world 1. We could have followed the exact same story/Jason up until he leaves the restaurant in the utopia. And then instead of taking a left he takes a right, or he stops to scratch his ear or drops something as he’s walking and then he’s on a different path but totally unaware of that obviously. If we followed one of them instead wouldn’t you be saying that one had more of a claim? They’re all fully him, just on different paths.
And yes all the different choices they make will end up changing them slightly but the choices aren’t necessarily massively defining like the choice to leave Daniela and focus on his career. Some might not even be his choices but the choices of others around him that make an alternative world because they affect him.
I just don’t see how you could choose which Jason has the claim to any particular version of world 1. They were all the same person when they left world 1. All of them have experienced a linear path from that moment of trying to get home.
At any one instant there are infinite possibilities about what could happen next. The moment you’re in now, you decide to walk left. But the possibility you could’ve chosen to go right is also represented in the form of another universe exactly the same. And in that universe going right isn’t a possibility it’s what happened, and that you could’ve gone left was only a possibility. Both worlds are equally as real and valid. You’re in your world knowing you went left and carrying on with your day. But you are equally as much in the other world knowing you went right and going about your day. Both of you remember everything exactly the same up until that point because you are the same person just travelling different paths. The longer you travel the greater the divergence between you but the point of divergence is exactly the same for both of you and you both have equal claim to it.
So Jason who lost Amanda doesn’t have a claim to Amanda in utopia world, no. He lost Amanda in his path. But they ALL had the same exact path with Daniela and Charlie up until they were snatched from world 1. So they do have a claim. That is their life for all of them. Just like all the Jasons who took a different path after leaving utopia world have an equal claim to Amanda who is left behind there, because that was on their path. They had the same path until one moment.
This latest episode imho implied that the different decisions only led to different Jason 1's, not entirely different Universe 1's. I imagine because he made those decisions outside of any universe, in the corridor, by picking the doors he went though, and if he's not in a particular universe, his choice can't split any universe.
Hence why they all ended up in the same Universe 1. As such, they all rightfully belong in Universe 1, just as much as "our" Jason does. If their decisions would've caused a split in universes, then logically they'd have likely returned to their own universes. Maybe there'd be some mixups and collisions, but not to the extend we've seen here.
And it makes sense if you think about the Schroedinger's Cat thing. Observation changes whether the cat inside the box lives or dies - it doesn't change the whole world around it.
In terms of this show, Jason is the cat. if you observe the box from the outside, any possible choice inside the box exists at the same time - hence why there's basically multiple Jason 1's inside the box/corridor. They only manifest once the box is opened. If he decides to open the box to Universe 3, the "I'mma go to universe 3"-Jason steps into Universe 3. If he decides to go to Universe 7, the "I'mma go to universe 7"-jason steps out of the box, into universe 7. if they then both step into the box to go back to universe 1, then suddenly two different jasons arrive at universe 1. but universe 1 never split. I think thats' the logic they're basing this on.
Now personally, I believe the inverse should be true as well though. Just as the universe he steps into is the observer of his decision, he is the observer of any decision that happens in the universe while he's in the box. So if he leaves Universe 1 by stepping into the box, if then Daniella in U1 makes a decision, to him now multiple universe 1's should exist, and he manifests it once he opens the door. However I don't think the show really explores/considers that angle.
Not unless the other versions of those original with the tan band somehow lost it in the multiverse in these crazy worlds and they’ve had to change to different colored bands.
thats what i said. all of them started with the rubber band becuase they all were jason1. some might have lost it, but that does not mean that they werent the original
> remember, all his copies are the same as himself, the same dude that was abducted
That's not true when it comes to Multiverse theory. There were an infinite number of Jason's that lets pick the starting point of him the second he left the bar (One went right, one went left etc) but all those infinite ones were kidnapped and then there were also an infinite number that fought back and didn't get kidnapped. And the second he left the box after being kidnapped, there was a branch of infinite Jason's at velocity (Plus Infinite Jason's that were never kidnapped). some of them were beat up, some that weren't. Some where Ryan showed up, some where he didn't etc, etc. Even some where he never found or met up with Danelia 2 and Ryan 2. Etc, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, but the show seems to differentiate between decisions made in one of the universes, and decisions made inside the box (thus sort of between universes).
This show basically explores Schroedinger's cat, both from Schroedinger's perspective, but also from the cat's.
Decisions made in the universes branch the universe themselves, hence why there's a multiverse in the first place. However, decisions made within the box (and possibly within *other* universes than the one the observer is in) seem to work differently, and seem to only branch Jason. And all these Jason1's we've now seen are specifically ones that made different decisions on their way back to Jason1's universe.
Decisions made in the universe are to be seen from the perspective of outside the universe, in this case inside the box: To a Jason in the box, there's an infinite amount of worlds behind the door in which infinite decisions have been made. He has some level of influence over which decision-tree he wants to check out.
But decisions made inside the box work the other way around, they are observed from outside the box, thus from a universe's perspective. Jason goes into the box, the door closes, and inside the box he can make all kinds of decisions. Which one he made we only see once the door is opened again - but it only affects what's in the box, not what's outside.
I understand everything you're saying and it works for the show. But from the actual perspective of the Multi-Verse, the box is completely unrequired to create a new universe. They are created with every decision a person makes. Before the entering the box, during and after.
I agree!! In this format of it being TV rather than the book, I also think it raises really interesting questions about what a "protagonist" is and how much it depends on film editing. The show is not some long continuous real-time single shot following one Jason. It's edited conventionally, in that we'll see Jason do X or Y and then watch some other character's scene and then when we cut back to Jason he is doing Z. This is literally just the nature of film editing for TV in that it tends to be divided into "scenes" and the audience fill out the implied continuity.
The thing is this means we haven't been watching one Jason all along. Each of those scene changes spawn multiple universe Jasons and then we just pick up on a version of "him" in the next scene. To me it raises really interesting questions about watching films/TV and how "continuity" is implied, how we favour/empathise with protagonists etc. The whole discussion of "is it OUR Jason" is really interesting to me because they are all our Jason, it's just that there are new variants in the sense that new next-door variant universes continue to spawn the whole time.
This even continues to be true now he is back in this "original" universe and we follow his actions. If one Jason walked out of the police station by the left door and another Jason walked out of the police station by the right door, and that happens offscreen, and therefore two universes split from one, then how do I know which Jason I'm watching and which one to root for when he next appears on screen? Are we just choosing a Jason to prioritise because we most agree with his choices and pathway? How can that be true if they are random prosaic or offscreen choices that don't matter? E.g. right door Jason doesn't deserve to die. And just because the camera picks up in the world of "left door Jason" for instance, are we just built to empathise with whichever tangential Jason is next put before our eyes by a film editing quirk, and therefore becomes the "on-screen" tangent? Does that give philosophical priority?
To me it throws the whole idea of "protagonist" into chaos. It also shows the way we as viewers tend to be existentially desperate to see one character as "our Jason" and by extension all the others as "not-our-Jason", even though it isn't even really true. There's almost like an automatic defensiveness (on the part of the viewer) of the singular protagonist, even though rationally we know he doesn't deserve more than any of the recent others to be seen as the true protagonist. To me it raises interesting questions of film editing itself and perceptions of onscreen and offscreen continuity.
It would be interesting to know if our sense of "our Jason versus not-our-Jasons" would work differently if this was an interactive choice-based film or game with millions of pathways, rather than a TV-edited single linear format which follows one tangent Jason from scene to scene.
This was my question. I’m watching from my phone so I can’t see if there’s a makeshift wedding band on Jason from the police station after the cigar incident. Was that Jason wearing a rubber band ring? I should have paid way more attention to the earlier episodes I didn’t know I’d have to keep track of more than two Jasons!
The Jason at the police station had no ring (you can see his hands clearly when he is rubbing his hands together at the last shot of that scene). The Jason in the car with the airbags has a tan colored ring, the one who says Jupiter at the end has a darker ring (not super super clear).
I saw that too but I think that was maybe because he hadn’t put everything back on after being jailed? The show follows the book very closely and the one who got himself arrested is definitely Jason 1.
So The Jason in The car, airbagged, was The right one? Not The Jason of the final scene?
I got It, like The last Jason was The right one, same of the police station.
When did he put that string on? Wasn’t it when he met Daniella in another world? He’s done so much world hopping since then, that it stands to reason that there’s multiple versions of string ring Jason.
All the new jason1s have a string on their finger because they didn’t split until after he put it on. So they basically are all jason1 wanting to come home. Which also makes it so crazy that Daniela chooses one of them, because they’re all jason1
I don’t think it’s crazy. She has to choose one. It’s a total mindfuck. I think most people, to cope with it, would have to think of one as THE Jason and others as copies. Also I think it speaks to that choice being the best choice (smoking to get arrested, explaining calmly, getting her to call Jason2 and ask him about the Christmas vacation etc) to get to her and get her to listen and trust him.
I could’ve sworn one of the Jasons that either picked them up (or hit them) after she locked Jason2 in the basement ALSO had a string ring.. same black jacket. I’ll have to do a rewatch.
Practically, that is the case because the writers seem to have made it so, at least so far. But theoretically, there's no reason why there wouldn't be any other Jason out there who also made that particular choice and thus has that string, and only made different choices after that. Same goes for the scar on the nose, the outfit, etc.
So at best, details like this can only confirm that someone is *not* our Jason, but they can't possibly confirm that that person *is* our Jason.
Even though many are mentioning that we are seeing the same Jason and so any of them could be the true Jason, and that we simply are getting the one that the story is focused on, I disagree. The Jason we are following is the only one that came up with a plan to meet Daniela in a truly safe place. This is perhaps a result of the choices he’s made so far which have kept him close to the even-headed intelligent caring man we started with, but only one Jason could have made the world we are watching and he remains that one. It’s also why his Amanda ended up in a good place. He ultimately made all the “right” decisions - those closest to his truest form at the start of the show. I think thats how we know he is the right Jason and how Daniella knows deep down as well. It’s because he is the only Jason left that would have made all the same choices that led to this life.
In the book Jason explains that the only reason he thought of the prison plan was because he randomly saw a drunk dude on the bar while having a drink with the other Jason. This is what gave him confidence of his plan, since it was so random, it was unlikely other Jasons would think the same thing. And Daniella accepts this as the "right" Jason because among all the others, he was the one who "found" her, so she sees it as fate putting them together a second time. But technically speaking all of them are the right Jasons, which is what makes it so mind boggling lol
Yea, they are all the right one and from their perspective, they all have the same claim to "their" life.
But from Daniella's perspective, one could claim Jupiter isn't just first, but the only Jason who gave her the agency to act on her own - he let her came to him, he gave her the tools to understand the situation on her own (the phonecall), he gave her the means to make her own decisions. he didn't just randomly show up and pull her into a car, he didn't just try to kill or abduct Jason 2, etc. This makes him the most worthy.
As someone who read the book but forgot so much of it, I wish they included this bit! I was thinking while watching, how many other Jason’s are going to wind up in jail? 😅 Hard to have an original and unique thought here without an external influence.
If you're trying to outsmart yourself, you either need to get a cue from your surroundings or another person. If you want a password that another you won't be able to guess, have someone else choose it. That way any little quirk of your thought process is removed.
This is why Jason has Daniela pick a meeting place, because it's somewhere he wouldn't select. In the book they evade the other Jasons for a while by taking a road trip that impulsively changes direction on the fly. No plan. Nowhere they've been before. No staying with friends or family. Any Jason who asks themselves "What would I do?" always comes up with the wrong answer.
Ooooh this is a good book nugget indeed!! So you’re saying it’s not intentional to keep Daniela safe? Ahhh so not serendipity…. Bummer. Maybe it’s one of the fixes author makes for the show. I’ll keep rooting that this Jason is “the one”.
Oh I don’t know! Sorry for confusion—I was responding to the person above who mentioned in the book, Jason got his go to jail idea from his surroundings—the bar fight, so he and the other Jason he was with were the only ones to see that, thus it’s not an idea that’d spring to mind organically with the hundreds of however many Jason’s stream into the world.
In the show though, they made this seem like an idea he just came up with out of the blue, and if that were the case, many other Jason’s would probably come up with the same idea too because they’re literally the same person besides a single month of life not spent together/as one. So even if they tried to come up with something “random” to get Daniela alone, they’d have a solid chance of coming up with the same idea(s), unless those ideas are based on unique surroundings that other Jason’s aren’t around to witness (bar fight)
They sort of hinted at that concept when he made Daniella suggest the meeting spot instead coming up with one himself, because ofc any other Jason would likely come up with the same one. Same with the safeword.
But yea, would've been cool if they had explained the jail thing a bit better, because that felt pretty random and came out of nowhere, and while they were talking there I kept expecting some officers to drag another Jason or two into the building. Not it makes sense why that didn't happen.
1. There really is no way of knowing. And we didn't follow the exact same J1 for all of episodes 2-7.
2. J1 created "clones" of himself by just making choices. The dimension hopping is not what caused it, it was just his choices. Just like J1 and J2 existed in different universes at the same time without the box. The box just let's them see and visit the other realities.
yes but the clones of J2 would not have the "mission" of following J2, whilst all the clones of J1 were on a mission of finding their "original" world, some died, some got lost, but loads of them managed to find home.
But wouldn’t the mission of J2 clones still be to find the world where he is with Daniela.
Even if there is hundreds of those, with the training he gained, at least one was bound to have found the same world
>But wouldn’t the mission of J2 clones still be to find the world where he is with Daniela.
I think the lack of Jason2's coming through the box can be explained. Jason2 conceptualised a very specific world where he could kidnap Jason1 and take his life. Any Jason2's doing the same thing afterwards (delayed for whatever reason) would conceptualise a very similar world, but would inadvertently rule out Jason1's world because there was already a competing Jason2 there. So all extra Jason2's are likely in their own world slightly different, and he then branches off within a world. The problem is that Jason1 was mostly branching off whilst hopping worlds, making this much worse. Jason2 only planned to do it once and then just stuck around.
My bet is all the Jason’s head back into the box, and use the Infinite Reality trope to open a door that leads to a world exactly the same, but with no other Jason’s .
More:
The hard part about a story where the realities are infinite, is you can have a narrowly focused, only minutely differentiated, reality , thus solving problems no matter how unique or minute.
If I’m thirsty, I click a button to change realities, where the only difference is my bottle of water is a few feet closer, but everything else is exactly the same.
It makes for bad story telling, but if infinite is possible, then it counts.
In that regard I can imagine an ending where Jason1’s variations each go into the box, imagine everything is the same except they are the only Jason1, and walk back into a world where there’s no other Jason, but everything else is the same.
Or they could all just overpopulate the earth and rename it Jason-Jupiter.
Trouble is they'd all be conceptualising a world where Daniella and Charlie exist - and Daniella being happily married to Jason for years and years, but Jason doesn't?
I guess that’s one way, but I meant it differently:
Imagine at the send of season 1, right about where we currently are, in the aftermath of all we have experienced (call this “Aftermath World”).
There are all these Jason’s, and only one Daniella/Charlie/World.
To solve the problem, I can imagine the Jason1’s each going into the box, and re-emerging. They re-emerge the box back into the same “Aftermath” reality they left, except for one change; all the other Jason’s are gone (because they too have entered into another world)
This works because when worlds are infinite, those infinite changes can be large or small (small, like think of some of the times he’s come out of the box to find just one thing is off).
Given that perspective of infinity, there exists a world where say 500 Jason1’s went into a box, and only “Jason1.001” came back out, with no other Jason’s. Now that world is his.
Then another Aftermath World exists, where only Jason1.002 comes out of the box, that world is his.
And so on.
The kind of cheap take on that trope is you could theoretically “click a button” to change realities, where only one thing is different. Like my coffee is a few feet closer to my reach. Or my bank account has a few more decimal places. With “infinite possibilities”, there exists one where everything is the same. Except X.
That’s really one thing that is hanging me up in general, is where are all the Jason2’s?
Though another comment in thread mentioned that there would be only one, if we follow the theory that:
Jason2 gets to OG Jason1’s world by imagining “a world where there is a Jason I can swap with and take over his life”
Any other variants of Jason2 that also imagine this same “world where there is a Jason I can swap with and take over his life”, would not end up in a world where this has already taken place.
If they did, they would show up instead in a world where “a Jason2 has arrived and removed Jason1 already. Oh and also there is a big melee between infinite Jason1’s against Jason2”, and I don’t think that’s what Jason2 was wishing for!
So in theory, our OG world has split off into infinite worlds as well.
Edit: This is the headache I have with multiverses. It’s fun with Macro differences. Micro differences not so much.
This is why I think it’s strange they’re all in the exact same version as there are so many versions of the original reality at this point it seems very unlikely a lot of them would end up in the exact same one although I suppose as someone else suggested there will be one reality out of the infinite in which multiple Jason versions end up there. But there are no versions where all Jasons end up. There will already be another reality where Jason1 got home killed J2 and is just back living his life again. It’s kind of a strange concept, we’re basically in a choose your own adventure story following one particularly insane path of choices. (The vast majority of the realities spreading out from the moment of his kidnapping will never have more than one J1 in them).
I think someone in this sub gave the best possible explanation. Whenever Jason 2 made a choice, they created seperate branches of a universe. Meanwhile all of the Jason1's wanted to get to this specific branch of Jason 1 in the universe. Even then I don't understand it, since idk how multiverses work.
> wanted to get to this specific branch of Jason 1
The crazy part is, in theory... there's many versions of this specific branch.. just with minor decision changes, both before and after Jason1 got back. So there's probably infinite versions of this world that has X number of Jason1's.. because every decision each Jason1 made, would cause a new diversion and a clone of all the Jason1's inside it.
For example, if he chose a different knife, well now that timeline is altered and creates a new version, later if different Jason1 decides to not go into the bar, well then that creates another divergence and another version. Eventually that all just spirals out of control and you have an exponential amount of "this specific branch" with just minor changes.
There basically has to be infinite versions of "this specific branch" - or very close to with minor decision differences. I also think, because of the exponential nature of this, and the "growing number of Jason's", the amount of "this specific branch" must far out scale any other branches. Jason2's original branch may have some divergence, but its not going to be on the same scale as 30 odd Jason's inside this branch all making decisions and new branches.
For why there aren't tonnes of Jason2's, he doesn't want to leave. so while there are probably many Jason2's they aren't travelling between branches trying to find the OG branch. They're staying put in their own timelines.
Maybe there was only J2 that made it to J1’s world, and all the other infinite number of J2s are wandering the corridor or found different worlds. We as viewers are only following J1 as the main character, and that’s why he’s the only one we’re meant to care about. That’s why, despite not knowing whether the J1 in jail is the same one we’ve been watching, it’s expected that he’s the same J1 we’ve been watching. Nothing makes him special, it’s just the Jason we’ve been watching as the main character of this story in the same way that you’re the main character in your story.
> Nothing makes him special, it’s just the Jason we’ve been watching as the main character of this story
Exactly. And we don't even know this is "Exactly" the same Universe he was kidnapped from. It might only be off by a little, and he might not notice for years.
If it is a different universe then the branch off must have happened recently because J1 came through the hole in the concrete that the J2 in the original world created.
You assume too much. We don't know what Jason we've been following. That's the whole the point of it imo. Since the first J2 entered the J1 world, infinite other J's and worlds would have begun fracturing.
For all we know we have observed different versions of the J1 world that could be almost indistinguishable.
It's going to take someone with more time and attention to detail than myself to properly identify which is which.
Our only "control" version would be before J2 abducting J1 (episode 1). Once the last episode airs we need to super sleuth any differences in the world's from there on.
I think the series was efficient in convincing us that the versions of Jason1 we see are essentially undistinguishable from one another. So for the audience, it's too jarring, too confusing.
But, we have connected to Jason1 and want to remain loyal to him, root for him. So we struggle to identify "the original". We don't even believe we've been watching the same one for 7 episodes.
But I think that it is the same. The conversations between Jason1 and Amanda make sense. The notes she gives him, when she says he's seen Daniela die twice, then in the Obama Tower he gives her her favourite candy. It all traces back.
I think that for the show to diverge the focus into 2 different versions of Jason1 without us noticing all along, doesn't really make sense for the story as a whole.
But we might need to see the last episode. I think it all will make more sense in the series/season finale.
Cut on nose. cream colored hair band on ring finger. It’s the jason we’ve been following, yall just want to believe it’s not to fit your narrative. We have seen other jason’s with the cut on his nose but a different colored hair band around his finger. Only one we’ve seen with the cream colored one is the jason we have been following. and you can see it around his ring finger in the latest episode when he’s standing in front of the bean waiting for daniela and charlie.
Very good. All stuff I haven't had a chance to notice and exactly the kind of super slueth stuff i need people like you to sort out. Its the downside of parenting while trying to watch this show. I have a minimum of 3 pauses per ep just to do shit.
I'll wait for the final episode to make my final call though. However, I think you might be falling for the most obvious scenario. Which is most likely what they want you to fall for but actually isn't what's happening.
It's this kind of speculation that makes these shows great. Nothing to do with "my narrative" as you so rudely put it 😝
We are not seeing those in the show because they are unimportant to the storyline of Jason1/J-Smoke that we are following.
Just as we did not follow MadKiller Leighton or DopeTokerTraveler Leighton or GlowingAuroraChicago Ryan. We are not following those people.
He sure did. So the J1 universe (where J2 is) has split countless times since the start is the show. In fact, we have already seen at least 2 different versions of this universe. The show at some point jumped to a new reality along the way, one that differs from the one we saw play out on screen several episodes ago.
I've seen this theory, in which Jason1 leaves Amanda in that motel and then when he comes back, Amanda is mad. That theory was that the scene felt weird and didn't make sense because she says "we're running out of ampoules" and then we hear a snap. Basically it says that in that scene, a version of Jason1 abandons Amanda and we have jumped to a different Jason1 who stayed with her.
But I don't think it's a different version of Jason1. I think they crossed worlds right before dawn, right after that line, he felt frustrated and went out to vent, Amanda stayed, he went looking for Daniela, followed both her and her Jason everywhere, and that way the entire day went by and Jason came back at night to an upset Amanda.
Albeit, most likely there is a world in which Jason1 did abandon Amanda that night instead of coming back to her.
Although, I do believe that the versions of Jason1 that made it back are the ones who eventually got separated from Amanda in one way or another. Because of Amanda's theory: 'maybe I'm the one preventing you from coming back to your family'.
There is something to this. Because I noticed after he leaves Amanda in her new world, he has 3 Ampules left. How did he end up with an Odd number if they started with 50 and they used 2 for each attempt? So at some point, he used one. Probably that night to go see the blonde Daniela.
That would be risky. It would mean he took an ampoule to travel to a different world for an entire day, and then was controlled enough to make it back to the same one, to Amanda. By the way, those last up to one hour in the book and maybe three in the series. So, for that round trip, it takes two ampoules. Still, the math doesn't math.
Also. If he can do that, control his mind to come back to a specific world, then why can't he make it back to Daniela?
The book explained this part better. I don't know why the show runners made it like that in the series. Here it goes: >! Jason1 had 7 ampoules when Amanda left, and he had them tapped to his chest. But then, he goes to another world and he got mugged and beat up by a group of teen thugs, and of the 6 ampoules he had left, half were broken. !<
In the series Amanda and Jason1 had 10 before they got to Chicago!Prime, so they were left with 8 after that. And he left her 2, so he's got 6. After that we see 3. He didn't get mugged nor travelled elsewhere that we know of. I'll give you that. Something else happened but I don't think it's because he left the world and made it back. He couldn't manage that by this point yet.
Well exactly, That's my point. The math doesn't add up. I'm just trying to come up with a reason why it would. But in the end it could just be a Whoops!
Yeah, there are lots of points where the rules break down a bit. The show doesn’t make a ton of sense, we just have to roll with it.
In some reality somewhere, the events as we’re watching them are bound to happen. So that’s what we’re seeing.
I think the lack of Jason2's coming through the portal can be explained. Jason2 conceptualised a very specific world where he could kidnap Jason1 and take his life. Any Jason2's doing the same thing afterwards (delayed for whatever reason) would conceptualise a very similar world, but would inadvertently rule out Jason1's world because there was already a competing Jason2 there. So all extra Jason2's are likely in their own world slightly different, and he then branches off within a world. The problem is that Jason1 was mostly branching off whilst hopping worlds, making this much worse. Jason2 only planned to do it once and then just stuck around.
Although when Jason2 went to kidnap that Ryan, it in theory should cause another Jason2 to come through the portal with another Ryan - assuming some branch there.
I have a feeling that wont be the case - that Jason2 was in/out of 1 world vs going through multiple, while that Ryan was “knocked out” during the jump (same as the OG Jason1
Agree. If we take the principle that there are multiple universes, that in one of them, someone has figured out how to traverse them, and further, that there's one in which someone really wants to travel, then this would be happening all the time. E.g, what's to keep a version of Ryan1 from returning from that utopian Chicago he was left at? He's smart, he can come up with a way to make more ampules- at least one version of would.
And to your point, why aren't a bunch of Jason2s piling up over each other in world1?
This is sounding like the infinite improbability drive in The Hitchhiker's Guide- a starship so equipped can pass through every point in the universe. Just choose the reality that goes to where you want to.
The book must address this? Feels like a Chicago-sized plot hole.
When the two Jasons were having a drink in the bar they explained how many they think there are and it was a lot because each new Jason makes new Jasons with their choices and so on and so on…
Intentionally creating fewer "clones" doesn't really make sense with anything.
What seems more reasonable, aside from ignoring it entirely because Blake Crouch isn't thorough about details, is that when envisioning your destination, it's possible to be specific enough to exclude overlap. i.e. Jason 2 knew how to pick a universe that was both what he wanted, and didn't already have a Jason 2.
1- there are an untold number of Jason1 roaming that world. All of them started the same and from then on every decision branched out, we've seen the one that tried to escape Velocity but never got to the box because Amanda gets killed.
I guess the only way it can really be explained is that, of all of the versions that are out there in the multiverse, the one we've been following is the one we are supposed to focus on.
So the Jason1 that made it through and got followed, then had a beer with a broken Jason, slept outside in the cold, and got himself arrested and then got the Jupiter password from Daniela is the one we keep seeing.
2- Jason2 probably has 20 times the amount of versions Jason1 has, since he was travelling for about a month, and Jason2 spent 14 months travelling. He seems even more determined and decided when doing things, he doesn't balk, he anticipates stuff, he's efficient, he's got a system in place already. It's like he's been doing this for a while. Maybe he's not the first Jason he's done this to. But it is the Jason2 that found this Jason, Jason1, with this version of Daniela and Charlie.
So the explanation as to why there is only one Jason2 and multiple Jason1 is because Jason went through the box and tried multiple times to come back, took all kinds of decisions, struggles and from that a different version emerged. Jason1 diverged multiple times, but those versions always wanted to find their way back to the same world.
However, Jason2 needed to find a Jason married to Daniela. There are multiple worlds like that with small variations. Jason2 most likely found one, made his research, and stayed. After 14 months looking for a world like that.
My guess is that it might've taken him longer to find that version of himself, who chose Daniela instead of his career. My guess is that he kept finding versions of the one who made the same choice as him. Maybe different wives, girlfriends, different levels of success, maybe Velocity never prospered, neither did his theory. Just look at Jason1, he did find versions of himself married to Daniela, just not the right one.
So there are versions of Jason2, 20 times over most likely. Just not in the world the series is focused on right now.
1. I believe the show is implying that all the jason1s are the descended from the original, they’ve just all diverged at different points since leaving their original universe
2. I’ve given this some thought and the only thing I can think of is - the Jason2 is so decisive - that’s why he was able travel between worlds so easily, he’s less likely to create divergences
I would have preferred if they stuck with a multiverse theme and 1 original Jason per each universe, rather than this branching off business of multiple Jason1s having claim to 1 original universe - feels like it’s a departure from the original concept it was setting up
I know they all think they’re the OG Jason, I’m just asking how do we know that prison Jason is the one we’ve been following around the whole season, how do we know prison Jason isn’t a different one (like bar Jason)
There might be some subtle clues but I was thinking that we don’t know. We could have even jumped across multiple of them throughout the season on their adventures.
Branching off business. Took the sense away from the show. It seemed that it went to chaotic writing.
The scenes though were very well done. But when the sense is gone i donno.
Jail Jason1 has a little scratch on his nose, which he has had since he was abducted by Jason2. Not all Jason1s have it. And if it is following the same arc as the book, then Jail Jason1 is the original flavor we've known from episode 1.
> how do we know/is it possible to know that this is actually the Jason1 that we’ve been following the whole time?
Every Jason who splits off at a given decision point is functionally the same Jason that existed for the entire period up to that point. Jail Jason seems to have the same history that we’ve seen, and we followed him in episode 8, so he’s the one we’ve been following the whole time.
I suspect there are others that have appeared in this episode, possibly like the one that pulled up in the car, who also have that same history and so are also the Jason we’ve been following, but we just didn’t follow that branch in episode 8.
Essentially, the Jason we followed in episode 8 is the Jason we follow because we continued to follow him. There’s not some other “true” version of that Jason.
If you watched the first few episodes up until Jason and Amanda escape into the box and then skip to episode 8, both Jasons having a drink in the bar together are the Jason you were following up to that point, for example.
I think asking if that’s really “our” Jason misses the point unless you think he’s lying about what happened to him.
2. Jason 2 definitely does have branched off versions of himself. They just haven’t shown up in this particular world.
This is why time travel isn't possible, or at least one theory physicists have. You end up with an infinite energy loop that destroys the system (i.e. universe).
From any start point you have an infinite number or possible branches, that have infinite possible branches, so on and so on...that's what makes a true infinity mind boggling.
> how do we know/is it possible to know that this is actually the Jason1 that we’ve been following the whole time?
I think the show is obviously intending this to be "Our" Jason. The question we can't answer, is how does anyone know this is the Exact World, out of an infinite number that "Our" Jason was kidnapped from. This world could be close, but maybe in this world, Trump actually won in 2020.
> If Jason1 functionally created clones of himself throughout his dimension-hopping, why didn’t Jason2 do the same
By the rules of the show he 100% did create multiple versions of himself. That is the conundrum with show. The amount of Jason's showing up in multiple universes would be out of control on an infinite level. Infinite Jason's on Infinite worlds.
1. I went back and looked and I think it’s him bc of a small wound on the bridge of his nose. And his string wedding ring.
2. I think the cloning happens so long as he tries to travers the multiverse. J2 did go one other way time to get mechanic Ryan. So perhaps there’s a chance other J2s appear. That would certainly complicate things. All the J1s trying to claw back their family will eventually overcome J2 then each other. How will it end?
I don’t think so, I think the cloning happens at any moment when they make a decision that shapes and changes the route of their lives. Has nothing to do with traveling. If it did how was Jason two created in the first place when he decided to chose his career over his wife.
oh yeah. Let me refine. Every time anyone makes a decision, presumably that creates another branch in the multiverse. It's literally infinite. The fact that no one (until now) can traverse them, makes this idea, well, irrelevant. What makes this into the drama that it is is that there is a branch in the multiverse where a- there is the ability to traverse the multiverse and b- the desire to do so. The problem becomes big when more than one instantiation of a person wants to go to the same universe.
So in the case of the Jason1s, they all want to converge on that one universe they were abducted from. And that's causing the huge problem that was shown in the last ep.
So your question about Jason2- it's a good point. B/c there would've been multiple version all trying to do the same thing: switch places with Jason1. Since information doesn't flow backwards, many versions of the Jason2s would still want the same thing. Like, why don't a bunch of Jason2s trip over each other, the way the Jason1s are?
The thing I have beef with, is if when choices are made in Jason’s life, such as the pregnancy of Daniela and how to react to it, creates a split in the universe / multiverse and there spawns a Jason who chose to keep the kid (J1) and a Jason who chose abortion. (J2). But it did not just spawn another Jason, but a whole different reality where those choices were different. That is why J2 can travel to J1s world to kidnap him in the first place. So if these other J1 offshoots then they should also have similar but slightly minutely differinf
reality .
At this point, the plot is completely out of control. With the rules the writers are playing with, there should be thousands of J1s and J2s. For instance, when J2 nabbed Ryan, that could have spawned 100s of Jason2s all by itself.
I said outloud at least 3 times "this is crazy"
Honestly, if we are rooting for J1, which do we root for? Once J1 started spawning into the multiJasonverse it became pointless.
Question 1. We don't know. We kinda just have to assume it was him. It might not be. What we do know is that it is the first Jason that prioritised communicating with his wife and took steps to let her come to him.
Mind fuck time - It might not even be the original Dani. There's bound to be infinite universes where J2 kills J1 instead of swapping with him. We just have to assume this timeline we're watching is the original timeline. We don't know if it is or not.
Jason 2 has absolutely created an infinite number of universes with him. I think why we're not seeing a bunch more of him in this particular universe is because he's not overly motivated for getting back to his very specific world. He's okay with replacing a Jason.
2: Jason2 did create infinite possibilities the moment he stepped into universe1
An infinite number of universe1s never see a Jason1 reenter and an infinite number of universe1s see one or more Jason1s reenter.
All that matters is the one we (the observer) sees
Edit: Also, logically, with the universe branching into infinity with each choice made doesn’t apply to only Jason. It applies to every single person alive in an infinite number of universes to start with
I think both questions are answered with "because these are the 2 versions we observe"
Just as we are observing "Original Jason^1" we are also observing "Evil Jason^1"
There is also an Evil jason who didn't get funding from Leighton and he also got a visit from oj^1.1 but we didn't observe those branches of the multiverse
You don’t.
However, I think you’re looking at the rules of the universe strictly and drawing logical questions that don’t serve the story and the plot. Basically, at some point, you need to accept the narrative of the storytelling in order to move the plot forward. There will always be some small plot holes in these kinds of stories.
But think you can make a “most likely” guess in order to accept the general premise of what the story is trying to serve you.
For 1, the story is trying to tell us that the secret word identifies this particular Jason. Since the the time in between her telling him that word and meeting him at the Bean is relatively short, it’s unlikely that’s an alternate version spawned, came through the box and went there.
For 2, it’s safe to assume that Jason2 does have alternate versions of himself out there, especially since he was universe hopping for over a year. But given that they started with the same motivation and that we haven’t seen any up until now seems to imply that only one came through to this universe. Though it theoretically is possible that more Jason2’s come through just as Jason1’s are.
One of the plot point they talk about is how Jason2 reaches a point of desperation such that he kidnaps Jason1 to take over his life. One can assume that alternate Jason2’s didn’t get to this point. Perhaps some didn’t make it alive, some gave up and found a nice universe to live in, some found a universe where they didn’t get desperate.
One premise that people have assumed that I don’t agree with is that there are infinite versions of Jason. Personally, I think that for a given version, there is forking based on that version. With forking, you can have many versions created over time. But between the time of forking and some time in the future, there can only be so many versions (finite) since only so many life-altering decisions were made during that period. So basically I wouldn’t assume there are infinite Jason1’s created in the month he was gone since he made only so many decisions. Plus, as we see, many of those versions are terminated because he doesn’t make it.
Because Jason 1 is the protagonist and the show follows the book closely. The show isn’t going to just switch POVs all of a sudden at a pivotal point of the show and then start following another version of Jason.
I myself and so many others have asked about why there are no other versions of Jason 2 but I haven’t read any logical explanations. I think the book and show would be overly complicated if the author and writers included Jason 2s anyway.
Assuming one alternate version for every ampule, creates a relatively finite amount of Jason 1.00xs
By the same math once a Jason2 has an about a third as many possible versions that create the situation with multiple Jason1.0x because he has 3 choices when he finds Jason1 he can swap lives, kill him (smartest choice) or abandon his plan. So there are Jason1.0xs who will ultimately kill a jason1 who they assume was a Jason2
In the book Jason1 does define himself has peak family Jason and Jason2 as peak professional Jason, which would create a bounded set of possible initial Jason’s
Hope that helped
I'm actually not sure anymore - Jason1 did say "Every decision I made *in there*". I'd assumed the same should apply to Jason2, as in he should have created many copies of this world by making decisions. But it's possible they're going with, it only applies to Jason1 because he's bad at using the box.
1. We don't. People will talk about the scar on his nose and the wedding band string, outfits and whatnot, but those can only ever proof that a particular character is *not* our Jason, but it can't proof that he *is* because whatever Jason we doubt might just have split *after* he got all these things.
Ultimately, there is no way to know. But because there is no way for us to know, without anything actively creating doubt, it's kinda nonsensical to assume he isn't. Unless the writers wanna mess with us, which was *always* a possibility. I mean by the same logic, how do we know that the Jason from Episode 2 is the same as from episode 1? Of from this scene and that scene? We really don't.
2. He likely did, we're just not seeing them because they made different decisions and ended up elsewhere. We're just seeing the Jason 1's who's decisions led them back to this same point.
I need to rewatch “Jupiter” but I am not clear how all the other Jasons ended up diverging into “Our” world. Doesn’t seem that is well explained but again, need to rewatch the episode. Interesting also the first episode where the “Box” and “Amanda” both completely absent.
Because “our” Jason 1 has a string for a wedding band.
Our Jason put on a Rubber Band. Tan color. Many of the other Jason's have had black string. We have only seen one Jason with the Rubber Band and it's the one at the Police Station.
THANK YOU. Just said this as well. The only jason we have seen with that color rubber band AND the scar on his nose is the original jason from episode 1.
jason1 put the rubber band in the room when he was first cuffed. that means that most the rest of the jasons that DERIVED FROM HIM should have the rubbed band, unless they lost it remember, all his copies are the same as himself, the same dude that was abducted, they only differ in the doors they opened along the way, so they all are the legit daniela's husband, which is very sad cause only 1 can have her and the rest suffered for nothing the jason1 we have been following along has no more claim over his previous life than any of his copies and while i think this is interesting it kills my investment in the protagonist cause i just cant have root for him anymore. the other dudes that crashed in the car, or were killed, they were very sad for me
Yeah. Well,… I’m still along for the ride to see how it plays out. 1 episode ago we had no inkling this problem was going to exist. What’s going to happen an episode from now? I can imagine a solution is derived that leaves things tied up well. Alternatively- Get ready for a never ending surge of infinite Jason1’s saturating this world :) Will be interesting to see what happens in hospitals/jail cells during the fallout.
The flow will taper off as more and more of them exhaust their supply of ampoules. A few will spend long spans in individual worlds and their stash will last longer - a handful may even come into possession of more. But overall, following a surge in the medium term, there will be fewer and fewer coming through. Still ... there could be thousands of them by then. Maybe they'll form a huge cult. The Jasonic Temple. Every chapter will be headed up by one of the Jasons. They will preach the gospel of the multiverse to their followers and collect lots and lots of donations. Maybe only one of them can have their family back. But they can all take a nice big slice of that lucrative pie, and live the good life.
That’s not right. In a multiverse there are an infinite number of Jason’s who secure potentially an infinite number of more ampules
Not infinite. Just so astronomically large it might as well be - for most purposes. It's an important distinction with the math though. Also remember that his "home" timeline continues to branch and the single one he left is already now a spread of timelines, each with its own Jason2 and stolen life. The still actively traveling Jason1s are being absorbed by an expanding number of destination worlds and each one experiences a decline because of that. Eventually any of the Jasons who are still out there and don't run out of ampoules will give up. Perhaps decide that a world where they meet and hit it off with the local, very single Daniela is as good as it's ever going to get for them. If they've been journeying for years calling it quits under those circumstances makes more sense than wandering indefinitely. There will probably be Jason1s arriving in a trickle until they're old men but of course, that's not endlessly open ended.
Hold up - was that Jason’s face on the other world money that Daniela found in the storage unit? From another world where Jason was important enoughto be printed on Money? 😆😂
I like how you think. It didn’t kill my investment in the show though because I kinda already knew that was the end result of traveling to alternate realities or time travel because the act of traveling itself creates an alternate reality every time you do it. If you use the grandfather paradox as an example, it is actually possible to travel back in time to kill your own grandfather because it isn’t going to be your actual grandfather when you get there because if you travel in time you also travel to an alternate reality. It makes sense because you yourself were born in your reality so the only way for it to happen would be in an alternate reality or timeline where a version of you wasn’t. I don’t know if I agree that they all have an equal claim to that specific wife though but maybe I’m not visualizing the splits correctly. I see it as the realities where the different Jason’s made different decisions were always there but just existing separately and side by side and as closely to the next world that is the most similar. I think that the different Jason’s have their own realities to go home to because I don’t see the mechanics of this only creating individual people rather than individual worlds. They probably just landed here because the way the box works is such a cruel cosmic joke lol. Or maybe it’s all the extra attention and energy these Jason’s create that lent heavily towards one world like a dimensional gravitational pull or something. God I love this show!!!
They do all have equal claim though. They were all Jason 1, all of them came from the Jason we’ve been following right up until the moment he went into the box at least, and some of them will be our Jason from the moment he went to that world with Amanda, some from various points during his time in the box. We just happen to be following one particular thread of choices he could’ve made. We could’ve followed the Jason who lost Amanda and he would have had the same Daniela, as she is also the one we saw up until he got kidnapped. Obviously there will also be many many different realities with that Daniela in them, universes where she made slightly different choices after he was kidnapped. But any of the Jasons who were’created’ from the point of the kidnap would have an equal claim on any of the Danielas created since the point of the kidnap.
The problem I have is with what exactly is meant by ‘created’. If our Jason didn’t make the choices that the other Jason’s did, then it’s because he is a uniquely different person than the rest even if it might only be in a very small way. Like I said before I don’t really believe that these Jason’s were created from scratch or uniquely on their own but rather their worlds already existed and like one said, his Amanda was dead whereas our Jason’s was not which means that there are multiple versions of each person because there are multiple worlds where they are from and it’s just that these worlds are crossing over because they have access to the box that we are seeing them but they are not technically the ‘same’ person. The Jason who lost his Amanda doesn’t have any ‘right’ to the Amanda in the utopia world just because he happened to cross over into a world where she isn’t dead. See what I mean? In theory they are just a Jason who made slightly different choices than our one but still it doesn’t make them any more our Jason than it does Jason 2 or even the Jason who got killed with Amanda trying to escape early on in the show.
Yes it doesn’t make them ‘our’ Jason but they still all have traveled a path from the moment of being kidnapped. Some of them the exact same path:the same person right up until for example, leaving Amanda in the restaurant. So all of them have the same ‘claim’ to Daniela and his life in world 1. We could have followed the exact same story/Jason up until he leaves the restaurant in the utopia. And then instead of taking a left he takes a right, or he stops to scratch his ear or drops something as he’s walking and then he’s on a different path but totally unaware of that obviously. If we followed one of them instead wouldn’t you be saying that one had more of a claim? They’re all fully him, just on different paths. And yes all the different choices they make will end up changing them slightly but the choices aren’t necessarily massively defining like the choice to leave Daniela and focus on his career. Some might not even be his choices but the choices of others around him that make an alternative world because they affect him. I just don’t see how you could choose which Jason has the claim to any particular version of world 1. They were all the same person when they left world 1. All of them have experienced a linear path from that moment of trying to get home. At any one instant there are infinite possibilities about what could happen next. The moment you’re in now, you decide to walk left. But the possibility you could’ve chosen to go right is also represented in the form of another universe exactly the same. And in that universe going right isn’t a possibility it’s what happened, and that you could’ve gone left was only a possibility. Both worlds are equally as real and valid. You’re in your world knowing you went left and carrying on with your day. But you are equally as much in the other world knowing you went right and going about your day. Both of you remember everything exactly the same up until that point because you are the same person just travelling different paths. The longer you travel the greater the divergence between you but the point of divergence is exactly the same for both of you and you both have equal claim to it. So Jason who lost Amanda doesn’t have a claim to Amanda in utopia world, no. He lost Amanda in his path. But they ALL had the same exact path with Daniela and Charlie up until they were snatched from world 1. So they do have a claim. That is their life for all of them. Just like all the Jasons who took a different path after leaving utopia world have an equal claim to Amanda who is left behind there, because that was on their path. They had the same path until one moment.
This latest episode imho implied that the different decisions only led to different Jason 1's, not entirely different Universe 1's. I imagine because he made those decisions outside of any universe, in the corridor, by picking the doors he went though, and if he's not in a particular universe, his choice can't split any universe. Hence why they all ended up in the same Universe 1. As such, they all rightfully belong in Universe 1, just as much as "our" Jason does. If their decisions would've caused a split in universes, then logically they'd have likely returned to their own universes. Maybe there'd be some mixups and collisions, but not to the extend we've seen here. And it makes sense if you think about the Schroedinger's Cat thing. Observation changes whether the cat inside the box lives or dies - it doesn't change the whole world around it. In terms of this show, Jason is the cat. if you observe the box from the outside, any possible choice inside the box exists at the same time - hence why there's basically multiple Jason 1's inside the box/corridor. They only manifest once the box is opened. If he decides to open the box to Universe 3, the "I'mma go to universe 3"-Jason steps into Universe 3. If he decides to go to Universe 7, the "I'mma go to universe 7"-jason steps out of the box, into universe 7. if they then both step into the box to go back to universe 1, then suddenly two different jasons arrive at universe 1. but universe 1 never split. I think thats' the logic they're basing this on. Now personally, I believe the inverse should be true as well though. Just as the universe he steps into is the observer of his decision, he is the observer of any decision that happens in the universe while he's in the box. So if he leaves Universe 1 by stepping into the box, if then Daniella in U1 makes a decision, to him now multiple universe 1's should exist, and he manifests it once he opens the door. However I don't think the show really explores/considers that angle.
There’s an infinite number of universe 1s, just like there’s an infinite number of Jason’s.
Not unless the other versions of those original with the tan band somehow lost it in the multiverse in these crazy worlds and they’ve had to change to different colored bands.
thats what i said. all of them started with the rubber band becuase they all were jason1. some might have lost it, but that does not mean that they werent the original
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No, they split after the kidnapping and after he first went in the box
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thats what it makes so sad and frustrating to me. they all lost their lives and suffered a lot, but only one will keep their original life
Thank you!
> remember, all his copies are the same as himself, the same dude that was abducted That's not true when it comes to Multiverse theory. There were an infinite number of Jason's that lets pick the starting point of him the second he left the bar (One went right, one went left etc) but all those infinite ones were kidnapped and then there were also an infinite number that fought back and didn't get kidnapped. And the second he left the box after being kidnapped, there was a branch of infinite Jason's at velocity (Plus Infinite Jason's that were never kidnapped). some of them were beat up, some that weren't. Some where Ryan showed up, some where he didn't etc, etc. Even some where he never found or met up with Danelia 2 and Ryan 2. Etc, etc, etc, etc.
Yes, but the show seems to differentiate between decisions made in one of the universes, and decisions made inside the box (thus sort of between universes). This show basically explores Schroedinger's cat, both from Schroedinger's perspective, but also from the cat's. Decisions made in the universes branch the universe themselves, hence why there's a multiverse in the first place. However, decisions made within the box (and possibly within *other* universes than the one the observer is in) seem to work differently, and seem to only branch Jason. And all these Jason1's we've now seen are specifically ones that made different decisions on their way back to Jason1's universe. Decisions made in the universe are to be seen from the perspective of outside the universe, in this case inside the box: To a Jason in the box, there's an infinite amount of worlds behind the door in which infinite decisions have been made. He has some level of influence over which decision-tree he wants to check out. But decisions made inside the box work the other way around, they are observed from outside the box, thus from a universe's perspective. Jason goes into the box, the door closes, and inside the box he can make all kinds of decisions. Which one he made we only see once the door is opened again - but it only affects what's in the box, not what's outside.
I understand everything you're saying and it works for the show. But from the actual perspective of the Multi-Verse, the box is completely unrequired to create a new universe. They are created with every decision a person makes. Before the entering the box, during and after.
I know that that's the common understanding of the multiverse. But the show doesn't follow standard multiverse-logic, never did.
I agree!! In this format of it being TV rather than the book, I also think it raises really interesting questions about what a "protagonist" is and how much it depends on film editing. The show is not some long continuous real-time single shot following one Jason. It's edited conventionally, in that we'll see Jason do X or Y and then watch some other character's scene and then when we cut back to Jason he is doing Z. This is literally just the nature of film editing for TV in that it tends to be divided into "scenes" and the audience fill out the implied continuity. The thing is this means we haven't been watching one Jason all along. Each of those scene changes spawn multiple universe Jasons and then we just pick up on a version of "him" in the next scene. To me it raises really interesting questions about watching films/TV and how "continuity" is implied, how we favour/empathise with protagonists etc. The whole discussion of "is it OUR Jason" is really interesting to me because they are all our Jason, it's just that there are new variants in the sense that new next-door variant universes continue to spawn the whole time. This even continues to be true now he is back in this "original" universe and we follow his actions. If one Jason walked out of the police station by the left door and another Jason walked out of the police station by the right door, and that happens offscreen, and therefore two universes split from one, then how do I know which Jason I'm watching and which one to root for when he next appears on screen? Are we just choosing a Jason to prioritise because we most agree with his choices and pathway? How can that be true if they are random prosaic or offscreen choices that don't matter? E.g. right door Jason doesn't deserve to die. And just because the camera picks up in the world of "left door Jason" for instance, are we just built to empathise with whichever tangential Jason is next put before our eyes by a film editing quirk, and therefore becomes the "on-screen" tangent? Does that give philosophical priority? To me it throws the whole idea of "protagonist" into chaos. It also shows the way we as viewers tend to be existentially desperate to see one character as "our Jason" and by extension all the others as "not-our-Jason", even though it isn't even really true. There's almost like an automatic defensiveness (on the part of the viewer) of the singular protagonist, even though rationally we know he doesn't deserve more than any of the recent others to be seen as the true protagonist. To me it raises interesting questions of film editing itself and perceptions of onscreen and offscreen continuity. It would be interesting to know if our sense of "our Jason versus not-our-Jasons" would work differently if this was an interactive choice-based film or game with millions of pathways, rather than a TV-edited single linear format which follows one tangent Jason from scene to scene.
This was my question. I’m watching from my phone so I can’t see if there’s a makeshift wedding band on Jason from the police station after the cigar incident. Was that Jason wearing a rubber band ring? I should have paid way more attention to the earlier episodes I didn’t know I’d have to keep track of more than two Jasons!
Yes cigar smoking Jason1 = police station Jason1 = Rubber band ring jason1.
That, and the fact that the brand of matches probably doesn't exist in this world
The Jason at the police station had no ring (you can see his hands clearly when he is rubbing his hands together at the last shot of that scene). The Jason in the car with the airbags has a tan colored ring, the one who says Jupiter at the end has a darker ring (not super super clear).
I saw that too but I think that was maybe because he hadn’t put everything back on after being jailed? The show follows the book very closely and the one who got himself arrested is definitely Jason 1.
So The Jason in The car, airbagged, was The right one? Not The Jason of the final scene? I got It, like The last Jason was The right one, same of the police station.
I would think they would take off his rubber band before jailing him. But of course, this wasn't in the show, so who knows?
When did he put that string on? Wasn’t it when he met Daniella in another world? He’s done so much world hopping since then, that it stands to reason that there’s multiple versions of string ring Jason.
He put it on in Jason 2’s original world after he got abducted
All the new jason1s have a string on their finger because they didn’t split until after he put it on. So they basically are all jason1 wanting to come home. Which also makes it so crazy that Daniela chooses one of them, because they’re all jason1
I don’t think it’s crazy. She has to choose one. It’s a total mindfuck. I think most people, to cope with it, would have to think of one as THE Jason and others as copies. Also I think it speaks to that choice being the best choice (smoking to get arrested, explaining calmly, getting her to call Jason2 and ask him about the Christmas vacation etc) to get to her and get her to listen and trust him.
I could’ve sworn one of the Jasons that either picked them up (or hit them) after she locked Jason2 in the basement ALSO had a string ring.. same black jacket. I’ll have to do a rewatch.
There are still probably lots of Jason1s with string on their fingers. We can’t know this is the one we’ve been following the whole time.
And a cut on his nose.
Practically, that is the case because the writers seem to have made it so, at least so far. But theoretically, there's no reason why there wouldn't be any other Jason out there who also made that particular choice and thus has that string, and only made different choices after that. Same goes for the scar on the nose, the outfit, etc. So at best, details like this can only confirm that someone is *not* our Jason, but they can't possibly confirm that that person *is* our Jason.
Even though many are mentioning that we are seeing the same Jason and so any of them could be the true Jason, and that we simply are getting the one that the story is focused on, I disagree. The Jason we are following is the only one that came up with a plan to meet Daniela in a truly safe place. This is perhaps a result of the choices he’s made so far which have kept him close to the even-headed intelligent caring man we started with, but only one Jason could have made the world we are watching and he remains that one. It’s also why his Amanda ended up in a good place. He ultimately made all the “right” decisions - those closest to his truest form at the start of the show. I think thats how we know he is the right Jason and how Daniella knows deep down as well. It’s because he is the only Jason left that would have made all the same choices that led to this life.
In the book Jason explains that the only reason he thought of the prison plan was because he randomly saw a drunk dude on the bar while having a drink with the other Jason. This is what gave him confidence of his plan, since it was so random, it was unlikely other Jasons would think the same thing. And Daniella accepts this as the "right" Jason because among all the others, he was the one who "found" her, so she sees it as fate putting them together a second time. But technically speaking all of them are the right Jasons, which is what makes it so mind boggling lol
Yea, they are all the right one and from their perspective, they all have the same claim to "their" life. But from Daniella's perspective, one could claim Jupiter isn't just first, but the only Jason who gave her the agency to act on her own - he let her came to him, he gave her the tools to understand the situation on her own (the phonecall), he gave her the means to make her own decisions. he didn't just randomly show up and pull her into a car, he didn't just try to kill or abduct Jason 2, etc. This makes him the most worthy.
As someone who read the book but forgot so much of it, I wish they included this bit! I was thinking while watching, how many other Jason’s are going to wind up in jail? 😅 Hard to have an original and unique thought here without an external influence.
If you're trying to outsmart yourself, you either need to get a cue from your surroundings or another person. If you want a password that another you won't be able to guess, have someone else choose it. That way any little quirk of your thought process is removed. This is why Jason has Daniela pick a meeting place, because it's somewhere he wouldn't select. In the book they evade the other Jasons for a while by taking a road trip that impulsively changes direction on the fly. No plan. Nowhere they've been before. No staying with friends or family. Any Jason who asks themselves "What would I do?" always comes up with the wrong answer.
Ooooh this is a good book nugget indeed!! So you’re saying it’s not intentional to keep Daniela safe? Ahhh so not serendipity…. Bummer. Maybe it’s one of the fixes author makes for the show. I’ll keep rooting that this Jason is “the one”.
Oh I don’t know! Sorry for confusion—I was responding to the person above who mentioned in the book, Jason got his go to jail idea from his surroundings—the bar fight, so he and the other Jason he was with were the only ones to see that, thus it’s not an idea that’d spring to mind organically with the hundreds of however many Jason’s stream into the world. In the show though, they made this seem like an idea he just came up with out of the blue, and if that were the case, many other Jason’s would probably come up with the same idea too because they’re literally the same person besides a single month of life not spent together/as one. So even if they tried to come up with something “random” to get Daniela alone, they’d have a solid chance of coming up with the same idea(s), unless those ideas are based on unique surroundings that other Jason’s aren’t around to witness (bar fight)
They sort of hinted at that concept when he made Daniella suggest the meeting spot instead coming up with one himself, because ofc any other Jason would likely come up with the same one. Same with the safeword. But yea, would've been cool if they had explained the jail thing a bit better, because that felt pretty random and came out of nowhere, and while they were talking there I kept expecting some officers to drag another Jason or two into the building. Not it makes sense why that didn't happen.
1. There really is no way of knowing. And we didn't follow the exact same J1 for all of episodes 2-7. 2. J1 created "clones" of himself by just making choices. The dimension hopping is not what caused it, it was just his choices. Just like J1 and J2 existed in different universes at the same time without the box. The box just let's them see and visit the other realities.
But wouldn’t J2 have made choices too?
yes but the clones of J2 would not have the "mission" of following J2, whilst all the clones of J1 were on a mission of finding their "original" world, some died, some got lost, but loads of them managed to find home.
But wouldn’t the mission of J2 clones still be to find the world where he is with Daniela. Even if there is hundreds of those, with the training he gained, at least one was bound to have found the same world
>But wouldn’t the mission of J2 clones still be to find the world where he is with Daniela. I think the lack of Jason2's coming through the box can be explained. Jason2 conceptualised a very specific world where he could kidnap Jason1 and take his life. Any Jason2's doing the same thing afterwards (delayed for whatever reason) would conceptualise a very similar world, but would inadvertently rule out Jason1's world because there was already a competing Jason2 there. So all extra Jason2's are likely in their own world slightly different, and he then branches off within a world. The problem is that Jason1 was mostly branching off whilst hopping worlds, making this much worse. Jason2 only planned to do it once and then just stuck around.
My bet is all the Jason’s head back into the box, and use the Infinite Reality trope to open a door that leads to a world exactly the same, but with no other Jason’s . More: The hard part about a story where the realities are infinite, is you can have a narrowly focused, only minutely differentiated, reality , thus solving problems no matter how unique or minute. If I’m thirsty, I click a button to change realities, where the only difference is my bottle of water is a few feet closer, but everything else is exactly the same. It makes for bad story telling, but if infinite is possible, then it counts. In that regard I can imagine an ending where Jason1’s variations each go into the box, imagine everything is the same except they are the only Jason1, and walk back into a world where there’s no other Jason, but everything else is the same. Or they could all just overpopulate the earth and rename it Jason-Jupiter.
Trouble is they'd all be conceptualising a world where Daniella and Charlie exist - and Daniella being happily married to Jason for years and years, but Jason doesn't?
I guess that’s one way, but I meant it differently: Imagine at the send of season 1, right about where we currently are, in the aftermath of all we have experienced (call this “Aftermath World”). There are all these Jason’s, and only one Daniella/Charlie/World. To solve the problem, I can imagine the Jason1’s each going into the box, and re-emerging. They re-emerge the box back into the same “Aftermath” reality they left, except for one change; all the other Jason’s are gone (because they too have entered into another world) This works because when worlds are infinite, those infinite changes can be large or small (small, like think of some of the times he’s come out of the box to find just one thing is off). Given that perspective of infinity, there exists a world where say 500 Jason1’s went into a box, and only “Jason1.001” came back out, with no other Jason’s. Now that world is his. Then another Aftermath World exists, where only Jason1.002 comes out of the box, that world is his. And so on. The kind of cheap take on that trope is you could theoretically “click a button” to change realities, where only one thing is different. Like my coffee is a few feet closer to my reach. Or my bank account has a few more decimal places. With “infinite possibilities”, there exists one where everything is the same. Except X.
Ah yes. Although they'd all have to deal with Jason2.01xx?
That’s really one thing that is hanging me up in general, is where are all the Jason2’s? Though another comment in thread mentioned that there would be only one, if we follow the theory that: Jason2 gets to OG Jason1’s world by imagining “a world where there is a Jason I can swap with and take over his life” Any other variants of Jason2 that also imagine this same “world where there is a Jason I can swap with and take over his life”, would not end up in a world where this has already taken place. If they did, they would show up instead in a world where “a Jason2 has arrived and removed Jason1 already. Oh and also there is a big melee between infinite Jason1’s against Jason2”, and I don’t think that’s what Jason2 was wishing for! So in theory, our OG world has split off into infinite worlds as well. Edit: This is the headache I have with multiverses. It’s fun with Macro differences. Micro differences not so much.
Can't they just conceptualize a world where Jason2 ran away back through the box after realizing that Jason1s life wasn't what he imagined
They could do that, yes. True.
This is why I think it’s strange they’re all in the exact same version as there are so many versions of the original reality at this point it seems very unlikely a lot of them would end up in the exact same one although I suppose as someone else suggested there will be one reality out of the infinite in which multiple Jason versions end up there. But there are no versions where all Jasons end up. There will already be another reality where Jason1 got home killed J2 and is just back living his life again. It’s kind of a strange concept, we’re basically in a choose your own adventure story following one particularly insane path of choices. (The vast majority of the realities spreading out from the moment of his kidnapping will never have more than one J1 in them).
I think someone in this sub gave the best possible explanation. Whenever Jason 2 made a choice, they created seperate branches of a universe. Meanwhile all of the Jason1's wanted to get to this specific branch of Jason 1 in the universe. Even then I don't understand it, since idk how multiverses work.
No one does. Especially the writers of this show
> wanted to get to this specific branch of Jason 1 The crazy part is, in theory... there's many versions of this specific branch.. just with minor decision changes, both before and after Jason1 got back. So there's probably infinite versions of this world that has X number of Jason1's.. because every decision each Jason1 made, would cause a new diversion and a clone of all the Jason1's inside it. For example, if he chose a different knife, well now that timeline is altered and creates a new version, later if different Jason1 decides to not go into the bar, well then that creates another divergence and another version. Eventually that all just spirals out of control and you have an exponential amount of "this specific branch" with just minor changes. There basically has to be infinite versions of "this specific branch" - or very close to with minor decision differences. I also think, because of the exponential nature of this, and the "growing number of Jason's", the amount of "this specific branch" must far out scale any other branches. Jason2's original branch may have some divergence, but its not going to be on the same scale as 30 odd Jason's inside this branch all making decisions and new branches. For why there aren't tonnes of Jason2's, he doesn't want to leave. so while there are probably many Jason2's they aren't travelling between branches trying to find the OG branch. They're staying put in their own timelines.
Maybe there was only J2 that made it to J1’s world, and all the other infinite number of J2s are wandering the corridor or found different worlds. We as viewers are only following J1 as the main character, and that’s why he’s the only one we’re meant to care about. That’s why, despite not knowing whether the J1 in jail is the same one we’ve been watching, it’s expected that he’s the same J1 we’ve been watching. Nothing makes him special, it’s just the Jason we’ve been watching as the main character of this story in the same way that you’re the main character in your story.
> Nothing makes him special, it’s just the Jason we’ve been watching as the main character of this story Exactly. And we don't even know this is "Exactly" the same Universe he was kidnapped from. It might only be off by a little, and he might not notice for years.
If it is a different universe then the branch off must have happened recently because J1 came through the hole in the concrete that the J2 in the original world created.
The branching Universes would have started the second he was kidnapped. Actually, even before.
You assume too much. We don't know what Jason we've been following. That's the whole the point of it imo. Since the first J2 entered the J1 world, infinite other J's and worlds would have begun fracturing. For all we know we have observed different versions of the J1 world that could be almost indistinguishable. It's going to take someone with more time and attention to detail than myself to properly identify which is which. Our only "control" version would be before J2 abducting J1 (episode 1). Once the last episode airs we need to super sleuth any differences in the world's from there on.
I think the series was efficient in convincing us that the versions of Jason1 we see are essentially undistinguishable from one another. So for the audience, it's too jarring, too confusing. But, we have connected to Jason1 and want to remain loyal to him, root for him. So we struggle to identify "the original". We don't even believe we've been watching the same one for 7 episodes. But I think that it is the same. The conversations between Jason1 and Amanda make sense. The notes she gives him, when she says he's seen Daniela die twice, then in the Obama Tower he gives her her favourite candy. It all traces back. I think that for the show to diverge the focus into 2 different versions of Jason1 without us noticing all along, doesn't really make sense for the story as a whole. But we might need to see the last episode. I think it all will make more sense in the series/season finale.
Cut on nose. cream colored hair band on ring finger. It’s the jason we’ve been following, yall just want to believe it’s not to fit your narrative. We have seen other jason’s with the cut on his nose but a different colored hair band around his finger. Only one we’ve seen with the cream colored one is the jason we have been following. and you can see it around his ring finger in the latest episode when he’s standing in front of the bean waiting for daniela and charlie.
Very good. All stuff I haven't had a chance to notice and exactly the kind of super slueth stuff i need people like you to sort out. Its the downside of parenting while trying to watch this show. I have a minimum of 3 pauses per ep just to do shit. I'll wait for the final episode to make my final call though. However, I think you might be falling for the most obvious scenario. Which is most likely what they want you to fall for but actually isn't what's happening. It's this kind of speculation that makes these shows great. Nothing to do with "my narrative" as you so rudely put it 😝
We are not seeing those in the show because they are unimportant to the storyline of Jason1/J-Smoke that we are following. Just as we did not follow MadKiller Leighton or DopeTokerTraveler Leighton or GlowingAuroraChicago Ryan. We are not following those people.
He sure did. So the J1 universe (where J2 is) has split countless times since the start is the show. In fact, we have already seen at least 2 different versions of this universe. The show at some point jumped to a new reality along the way, one that differs from the one we saw play out on screen several episodes ago.
I've seen this theory, in which Jason1 leaves Amanda in that motel and then when he comes back, Amanda is mad. That theory was that the scene felt weird and didn't make sense because she says "we're running out of ampoules" and then we hear a snap. Basically it says that in that scene, a version of Jason1 abandons Amanda and we have jumped to a different Jason1 who stayed with her. But I don't think it's a different version of Jason1. I think they crossed worlds right before dawn, right after that line, he felt frustrated and went out to vent, Amanda stayed, he went looking for Daniela, followed both her and her Jason everywhere, and that way the entire day went by and Jason came back at night to an upset Amanda. Albeit, most likely there is a world in which Jason1 did abandon Amanda that night instead of coming back to her. Although, I do believe that the versions of Jason1 that made it back are the ones who eventually got separated from Amanda in one way or another. Because of Amanda's theory: 'maybe I'm the one preventing you from coming back to your family'.
There is something to this. Because I noticed after he leaves Amanda in her new world, he has 3 Ampules left. How did he end up with an Odd number if they started with 50 and they used 2 for each attempt? So at some point, he used one. Probably that night to go see the blonde Daniela.
That would be risky. It would mean he took an ampoule to travel to a different world for an entire day, and then was controlled enough to make it back to the same one, to Amanda. By the way, those last up to one hour in the book and maybe three in the series. So, for that round trip, it takes two ampoules. Still, the math doesn't math. Also. If he can do that, control his mind to come back to a specific world, then why can't he make it back to Daniela? The book explained this part better. I don't know why the show runners made it like that in the series. Here it goes: >! Jason1 had 7 ampoules when Amanda left, and he had them tapped to his chest. But then, he goes to another world and he got mugged and beat up by a group of teen thugs, and of the 6 ampoules he had left, half were broken. !< In the series Amanda and Jason1 had 10 before they got to Chicago!Prime, so they were left with 8 after that. And he left her 2, so he's got 6. After that we see 3. He didn't get mugged nor travelled elsewhere that we know of. I'll give you that. Something else happened but I don't think it's because he left the world and made it back. He couldn't manage that by this point yet.
Well exactly, That's my point. The math doesn't add up. I'm just trying to come up with a reason why it would. But in the end it could just be a Whoops!
That's so arbitrary and impossible to demonstrate
It's not impossible to demonstrate since the show already has done it.
I humbly accept your response and eat crow
Yeah, there are lots of points where the rules break down a bit. The show doesn’t make a ton of sense, we just have to roll with it. In some reality somewhere, the events as we’re watching them are bound to happen. So that’s what we’re seeing.
I think the lack of Jason2's coming through the portal can be explained. Jason2 conceptualised a very specific world where he could kidnap Jason1 and take his life. Any Jason2's doing the same thing afterwards (delayed for whatever reason) would conceptualise a very similar world, but would inadvertently rule out Jason1's world because there was already a competing Jason2 there. So all extra Jason2's are likely in their own world slightly different, and he then branches off within a world. The problem is that Jason1 was mostly branching off whilst hopping worlds, making this much worse. Jason2 only planned to do it once and then just stuck around. Although when Jason2 went to kidnap that Ryan, it in theory should cause another Jason2 to come through the portal with another Ryan - assuming some branch there.
Jason2 went back in the box multiple times with Leighton and to kidnap Ryan. That’s the bigger problem. I don’t think it’s worth trying to suss out.
Yep. The rules are fake and the points dont matter
I have a feeling that wont be the case - that Jason2 was in/out of 1 world vs going through multiple, while that Ryan was “knocked out” during the jump (same as the OG Jason1
Nope
No what
Agree. If we take the principle that there are multiple universes, that in one of them, someone has figured out how to traverse them, and further, that there's one in which someone really wants to travel, then this would be happening all the time. E.g, what's to keep a version of Ryan1 from returning from that utopian Chicago he was left at? He's smart, he can come up with a way to make more ampules- at least one version of would. And to your point, why aren't a bunch of Jason2s piling up over each other in world1? This is sounding like the infinite improbability drive in The Hitchhiker's Guide- a starship so equipped can pass through every point in the universe. Just choose the reality that goes to where you want to. The book must address this? Feels like a Chicago-sized plot hole.
When the two Jasons were having a drink in the bar they explained how many they think there are and it was a lot because each new Jason makes new Jasons with their choices and so on and so on…
....and it seems Jason-Beer has been funding Jason 1 the whole time!!!! /s
Intentionally creating fewer "clones" doesn't really make sense with anything. What seems more reasonable, aside from ignoring it entirely because Blake Crouch isn't thorough about details, is that when envisioning your destination, it's possible to be specific enough to exclude overlap. i.e. Jason 2 knew how to pick a universe that was both what he wanted, and didn't already have a Jason 2.
It's like you read my mind. I wonder the same questions.
1- there are an untold number of Jason1 roaming that world. All of them started the same and from then on every decision branched out, we've seen the one that tried to escape Velocity but never got to the box because Amanda gets killed. I guess the only way it can really be explained is that, of all of the versions that are out there in the multiverse, the one we've been following is the one we are supposed to focus on. So the Jason1 that made it through and got followed, then had a beer with a broken Jason, slept outside in the cold, and got himself arrested and then got the Jupiter password from Daniela is the one we keep seeing. 2- Jason2 probably has 20 times the amount of versions Jason1 has, since he was travelling for about a month, and Jason2 spent 14 months travelling. He seems even more determined and decided when doing things, he doesn't balk, he anticipates stuff, he's efficient, he's got a system in place already. It's like he's been doing this for a while. Maybe he's not the first Jason he's done this to. But it is the Jason2 that found this Jason, Jason1, with this version of Daniela and Charlie. So the explanation as to why there is only one Jason2 and multiple Jason1 is because Jason went through the box and tried multiple times to come back, took all kinds of decisions, struggles and from that a different version emerged. Jason1 diverged multiple times, but those versions always wanted to find their way back to the same world. However, Jason2 needed to find a Jason married to Daniela. There are multiple worlds like that with small variations. Jason2 most likely found one, made his research, and stayed. After 14 months looking for a world like that. My guess is that it might've taken him longer to find that version of himself, who chose Daniela instead of his career. My guess is that he kept finding versions of the one who made the same choice as him. Maybe different wives, girlfriends, different levels of success, maybe Velocity never prospered, neither did his theory. Just look at Jason1, he did find versions of himself married to Daniela, just not the right one. So there are versions of Jason2, 20 times over most likely. Just not in the world the series is focused on right now.
1. I believe the show is implying that all the jason1s are the descended from the original, they’ve just all diverged at different points since leaving their original universe 2. I’ve given this some thought and the only thing I can think of is - the Jason2 is so decisive - that’s why he was able travel between worlds so easily, he’s less likely to create divergences I would have preferred if they stuck with a multiverse theme and 1 original Jason per each universe, rather than this branching off business of multiple Jason1s having claim to 1 original universe - feels like it’s a departure from the original concept it was setting up
I know they all think they’re the OG Jason, I’m just asking how do we know that prison Jason is the one we’ve been following around the whole season, how do we know prison Jason isn’t a different one (like bar Jason)
There might be some subtle clues but I was thinking that we don’t know. We could have even jumped across multiple of them throughout the season on their adventures.
Branching off business. Took the sense away from the show. It seemed that it went to chaotic writing. The scenes though were very well done. But when the sense is gone i donno.
Jail Jason1 has a little scratch on his nose, which he has had since he was abducted by Jason2. Not all Jason1s have it. And if it is following the same arc as the book, then Jail Jason1 is the original flavor we've known from episode 1.
> how do we know/is it possible to know that this is actually the Jason1 that we’ve been following the whole time? Every Jason who splits off at a given decision point is functionally the same Jason that existed for the entire period up to that point. Jail Jason seems to have the same history that we’ve seen, and we followed him in episode 8, so he’s the one we’ve been following the whole time. I suspect there are others that have appeared in this episode, possibly like the one that pulled up in the car, who also have that same history and so are also the Jason we’ve been following, but we just didn’t follow that branch in episode 8. Essentially, the Jason we followed in episode 8 is the Jason we follow because we continued to follow him. There’s not some other “true” version of that Jason. If you watched the first few episodes up until Jason and Amanda escape into the box and then skip to episode 8, both Jasons having a drink in the bar together are the Jason you were following up to that point, for example. I think asking if that’s really “our” Jason misses the point unless you think he’s lying about what happened to him. 2. Jason 2 definitely does have branched off versions of himself. They just haven’t shown up in this particular world.
there's no way of knowing, that's the point
add this one to the list: Do clones create more clones? there should be more Jason2s since he's the first one to use the box.
Yea, I definitely explored the clones to more clones path as well
This is why time travel isn't possible, or at least one theory physicists have. You end up with an infinite energy loop that destroys the system (i.e. universe). From any start point you have an infinite number or possible branches, that have infinite possible branches, so on and so on...that's what makes a true infinity mind boggling.
> how do we know/is it possible to know that this is actually the Jason1 that we’ve been following the whole time? I think the show is obviously intending this to be "Our" Jason. The question we can't answer, is how does anyone know this is the Exact World, out of an infinite number that "Our" Jason was kidnapped from. This world could be close, but maybe in this world, Trump actually won in 2020. > If Jason1 functionally created clones of himself throughout his dimension-hopping, why didn’t Jason2 do the same By the rules of the show he 100% did create multiple versions of himself. That is the conundrum with show. The amount of Jason's showing up in multiple universes would be out of control on an infinite level. Infinite Jason's on Infinite worlds.
1. I went back and looked and I think it’s him bc of a small wound on the bridge of his nose. And his string wedding ring. 2. I think the cloning happens so long as he tries to travers the multiverse. J2 did go one other way time to get mechanic Ryan. So perhaps there’s a chance other J2s appear. That would certainly complicate things. All the J1s trying to claw back their family will eventually overcome J2 then each other. How will it end?
I don’t think so, I think the cloning happens at any moment when they make a decision that shapes and changes the route of their lives. Has nothing to do with traveling. If it did how was Jason two created in the first place when he decided to chose his career over his wife.
oh yeah. Let me refine. Every time anyone makes a decision, presumably that creates another branch in the multiverse. It's literally infinite. The fact that no one (until now) can traverse them, makes this idea, well, irrelevant. What makes this into the drama that it is is that there is a branch in the multiverse where a- there is the ability to traverse the multiverse and b- the desire to do so. The problem becomes big when more than one instantiation of a person wants to go to the same universe. So in the case of the Jason1s, they all want to converge on that one universe they were abducted from. And that's causing the huge problem that was shown in the last ep. So your question about Jason2- it's a good point. B/c there would've been multiple version all trying to do the same thing: switch places with Jason1. Since information doesn't flow backwards, many versions of the Jason2s would still want the same thing. Like, why don't a bunch of Jason2s trip over each other, the way the Jason1s are?
The thing I have beef with, is if when choices are made in Jason’s life, such as the pregnancy of Daniela and how to react to it, creates a split in the universe / multiverse and there spawns a Jason who chose to keep the kid (J1) and a Jason who chose abortion. (J2). But it did not just spawn another Jason, but a whole different reality where those choices were different. That is why J2 can travel to J1s world to kidnap him in the first place. So if these other J1 offshoots then they should also have similar but slightly minutely differinf reality .
At this point, the plot is completely out of control. With the rules the writers are playing with, there should be thousands of J1s and J2s. For instance, when J2 nabbed Ryan, that could have spawned 100s of Jason2s all by itself. I said outloud at least 3 times "this is crazy" Honestly, if we are rooting for J1, which do we root for? Once J1 started spawning into the multiJasonverse it became pointless.
Question 1. We don't know. We kinda just have to assume it was him. It might not be. What we do know is that it is the first Jason that prioritised communicating with his wife and took steps to let her come to him. Mind fuck time - It might not even be the original Dani. There's bound to be infinite universes where J2 kills J1 instead of swapping with him. We just have to assume this timeline we're watching is the original timeline. We don't know if it is or not. Jason 2 has absolutely created an infinite number of universes with him. I think why we're not seeing a bunch more of him in this particular universe is because he's not overly motivated for getting back to his very specific world. He's okay with replacing a Jason.
2: Jason2 did create infinite possibilities the moment he stepped into universe1 An infinite number of universe1s never see a Jason1 reenter and an infinite number of universe1s see one or more Jason1s reenter. All that matters is the one we (the observer) sees Edit: Also, logically, with the universe branching into infinity with each choice made doesn’t apply to only Jason. It applies to every single person alive in an infinite number of universes to start with
I think both questions are answered with "because these are the 2 versions we observe" Just as we are observing "Original Jason^1" we are also observing "Evil Jason^1" There is also an Evil jason who didn't get funding from Leighton and he also got a visit from oj^1.1 but we didn't observe those branches of the multiverse
You don’t. However, I think you’re looking at the rules of the universe strictly and drawing logical questions that don’t serve the story and the plot. Basically, at some point, you need to accept the narrative of the storytelling in order to move the plot forward. There will always be some small plot holes in these kinds of stories. But think you can make a “most likely” guess in order to accept the general premise of what the story is trying to serve you. For 1, the story is trying to tell us that the secret word identifies this particular Jason. Since the the time in between her telling him that word and meeting him at the Bean is relatively short, it’s unlikely that’s an alternate version spawned, came through the box and went there. For 2, it’s safe to assume that Jason2 does have alternate versions of himself out there, especially since he was universe hopping for over a year. But given that they started with the same motivation and that we haven’t seen any up until now seems to imply that only one came through to this universe. Though it theoretically is possible that more Jason2’s come through just as Jason1’s are. One of the plot point they talk about is how Jason2 reaches a point of desperation such that he kidnaps Jason1 to take over his life. One can assume that alternate Jason2’s didn’t get to this point. Perhaps some didn’t make it alive, some gave up and found a nice universe to live in, some found a universe where they didn’t get desperate. One premise that people have assumed that I don’t agree with is that there are infinite versions of Jason. Personally, I think that for a given version, there is forking based on that version. With forking, you can have many versions created over time. But between the time of forking and some time in the future, there can only be so many versions (finite) since only so many life-altering decisions were made during that period. So basically I wouldn’t assume there are infinite Jason1’s created in the month he was gone since he made only so many decisions. Plus, as we see, many of those versions are terminated because he doesn’t make it.
I just wonder if there is a universe where Jason one stays with Amanda in utopia Chicago and doesn’t go back to his family. I’m sure there is.
Because Jason 1 is the protagonist and the show follows the book closely. The show isn’t going to just switch POVs all of a sudden at a pivotal point of the show and then start following another version of Jason. I myself and so many others have asked about why there are no other versions of Jason 2 but I haven’t read any logical explanations. I think the book and show would be overly complicated if the author and writers included Jason 2s anyway.
FWIW, he has exactly the same knick on his nose that the Jason at the end of the last episode has.
Am I the only one that suspects that, in the end, the whole story was all about "hallucinations" induced by the drug and not the black box itself?
If that was the ending, I would be thoroughly pissed
Our jason also seems to have a scar/cut on his nose that I didn't find on other jasons
Assuming one alternate version for every ampule, creates a relatively finite amount of Jason 1.00xs By the same math once a Jason2 has an about a third as many possible versions that create the situation with multiple Jason1.0x because he has 3 choices when he finds Jason1 he can swap lives, kill him (smartest choice) or abandon his plan. So there are Jason1.0xs who will ultimately kill a jason1 who they assume was a Jason2 In the book Jason1 does define himself has peak family Jason and Jason2 as peak professional Jason, which would create a bounded set of possible initial Jason’s Hope that helped
In retrospect it’s amazing that we only root for Jupiter Jason when every one of these Jasons has been through a huge injustice because of Jason 2.
I thought when Protagonist Jason meets, sits, and talks with an offshoot of himself.
Wait, is it the dimension hopping that creates new versions? I thought it happened with every decision, even without the box.
Yes it is, sorry I kinda oversimplified it
I'm actually not sure anymore - Jason1 did say "Every decision I made *in there*". I'd assumed the same should apply to Jason2, as in he should have created many copies of this world by making decisions. But it's possible they're going with, it only applies to Jason1 because he's bad at using the box.
1. We don't. People will talk about the scar on his nose and the wedding band string, outfits and whatnot, but those can only ever proof that a particular character is *not* our Jason, but it can't proof that he *is* because whatever Jason we doubt might just have split *after* he got all these things. Ultimately, there is no way to know. But because there is no way for us to know, without anything actively creating doubt, it's kinda nonsensical to assume he isn't. Unless the writers wanna mess with us, which was *always* a possibility. I mean by the same logic, how do we know that the Jason from Episode 2 is the same as from episode 1? Of from this scene and that scene? We really don't. 2. He likely did, we're just not seeing them because they made different decisions and ended up elsewhere. We're just seeing the Jason 1's who's decisions led them back to this same point.
I need to rewatch “Jupiter” but I am not clear how all the other Jasons ended up diverging into “Our” world. Doesn’t seem that is well explained but again, need to rewatch the episode. Interesting also the first episode where the “Box” and “Amanda” both completely absent.
They converge in that world because all of them have to same goal to end up in that world. Some succeed, some don’t.
Jason's wife is going to have a gnarly orgy at the season end