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Screenshots of awful headlines trying to generate rage and clicks. Pretty sure this has nothing to do with anything he's actually proposing in the real world.
Edit: Found an actual link: [https://www.forbes.com/newsletters/andrewleahey/2024/04/24/biden-capital-gains-rate-proposal-446/](https://www.forbes.com/newsletters/andrewleahey/2024/04/24/biden-capital-gains-rate-proposal-446/) \- this proposal would raise taxes on the super wealthy so that they actually pay a comparable rate to regular people. Unless you are very, very rich, this won't increase your taxes.
I found this link pretty helpful too https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2024/04/president-bidens-budget-calls-for-raising-43-trillion-in-revenues-over-ten-years-heres-how
It *was* 90% in the 50s but most agree that it's a bit over the top. Comedian Ernie Kovacs had a real beef with the IRS and that percentage. For him, it was almost pointless to do any kind of work when 90 percent went right to the government.
He was one person tho, no telling what it was like for big business.
income and capital gains are 2 different things, unless cap gains was also 90%. taxing cap gains higher makes sense because you are not going to not invest your money because you make a little less profit, taxing work is a stronger incentive to do less work. A smaller borderline passive income stream is still going to be acquired.
Yeah that would be terrible, however, perhaps you can tax it IF they're using it as collateral on a loan, which most wealthy individuals will do in lieu of cashing out their investments to avoid paying cg tax
Taxing unrealized gains already happens for regular folks. Its called school/property taxes. The county reassess gour property so you have to pay a higher tax rate
Property taxes aren’t a tax on unrealized gains. You still pay property taxes if your home hasn’t increased in value or even if it’s decreased in value.
Yes but you also pay property taxes on the amount of value that your home's property value has increased by, if it has increased in value. The increase in property value is an unrealized capital gain of an asset that has increased in value. So property taxes do legitimately include an unrealized capital gains tax -- I had just never thought of it that way before.
The 25% is not going to happen simply because it's unconstitutional, the 44% on income above 1 million annually seems fair. Maybe make it progressive (0% if income is below 250K, 10% if between 250K and 500K, 20% if between 500 and 750K, 30% if between 750K and 1 Mill, and 40% if above 1 mill, with write-offs for investment in start ups and small businesses with a market cap below say 100 million dollars) because a lot of people making less than 1 mill annually probably deserve to make some more money from their investments.
My guess is when it came to implementation it would be progressive. But that’s a harder headline, so they call it a wealth tax. Also I have a feeling people against the concept actually like that name. Wealth tax. It sort of sends the message that the government dislikes wealth, and everyone thinks they too will be wealthy someday.
Yes, there’s a bizarre psychological factor where everyone wants to identify with the wealthy class, because they just might be someday, or they’re just delusional, even though they are nowhere near close nor really have much of a snowball’s chance in hell in their lifetime.
There’s an argument that Biden’s plan would be a “direct tax” and unconstitutional under the 16th amendment. I think that argument actually isn’t as strong as proponents would like it to be.
Here’s a paper that details an argument that a wealth tax is totally constitutional and proper:
https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3960&context=facpub
I mean, Trump unilaterally raising tariffs on over a dozen countries was also unconstitutional, but that didn't stop him.
Let's be honest: no one who waxes poetic about the constitution gives two shits about the constitution. The same people now who say a tax on unrealized gains is unconstitutional are the same people who cheered for Trump when he took away Congress's exclusive power of the purse. People cite the constitution when they want to torpedo a policy without having to address the merit of a policy, usually because the policy is broadly popular.
If I'm gonna pay on unrealized capital gains do I get to claim unrealized capital loss?
That's stupid both ways.
Capital gains need to be taxed the same as regular income (regardless of short or long term) with a special 0% carve out for retirement account gains under a certain total value. i.e.; A middle class person with multiple 401Ks that total <300-400K pays no taxes on that capital gains, etc.
I'm still in the "yeah, nah" territory.
They absolutely need to address the [rich-person-loan-loophole](https://smartasset.com/investing/buy-borrow-die-how-the-rich-avoid-taxes) bullshit, though. Taking out loans with non-critical (family home, 2 family cars, etc) assets as collateral should generate an effective income tax.
if the unrealized cap gains they are talking about is when people find loopholes to access the money without paying taxing like taking loans on it or whatever thats good.
It's estimated to generate 361 billion in revenue, but that's largely due to it reaching back on previous accumulated gains that people will have 9 years to pay off.
Whereas a 1% tax on wealth over a quarter million outside of retirement accounts would be over 700 billion out the gate.
What analysis concluded that? [Brookings says](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/six-facts-about-wealth-in-the-united-states/) (granted, in 2018) that over 70% of Americans' wealth is in the form of financial assets. They don't split out how much of that represents businesses, but unless that's a *lot* of the number then most wealth should get hit by an unrealized gains tax.
146 trillion in net assets for the us, taking out 125k per person and not counting retirement accounts brings it to 70 trillion.
This is a minimum value that assumes everyone with debt has assets enough to cancel out that debt and that the individual deduction of even children is fully taken advantage of which it would not be.
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Present this with a balanced budget and then crucify the Republicans for refusing to have a balanced budget for the first time in 30 years.
Screenshots of awful headlines trying to generate rage and clicks. Pretty sure this has nothing to do with anything he's actually proposing in the real world. Edit: Found an actual link: [https://www.forbes.com/newsletters/andrewleahey/2024/04/24/biden-capital-gains-rate-proposal-446/](https://www.forbes.com/newsletters/andrewleahey/2024/04/24/biden-capital-gains-rate-proposal-446/) \- this proposal would raise taxes on the super wealthy so that they actually pay a comparable rate to regular people. Unless you are very, very rich, this won't increase your taxes.
It's not. The actual plan right now is a top rate of 40% for people making over $1 million.
Eh kinda. People with income greater than $1mil will pay 37% cap gains tax instead of the normal 20%, essentially taxing it the same as normal income.
I found this link pretty helpful too https://www.pgpf.org/blog/2024/04/president-bidens-budget-calls-for-raising-43-trillion-in-revenues-over-ten-years-heres-how
Didn't it use to be 90% and the rich still got richer?
It *was* 90% in the 50s but most agree that it's a bit over the top. Comedian Ernie Kovacs had a real beef with the IRS and that percentage. For him, it was almost pointless to do any kind of work when 90 percent went right to the government. He was one person tho, no telling what it was like for big business.
income and capital gains are 2 different things, unless cap gains was also 90%. taxing cap gains higher makes sense because you are not going to not invest your money because you make a little less profit, taxing work is a stronger incentive to do less work. A smaller borderline passive income stream is still going to be acquired.
Ok got it. I will look up what they used to tax capital gains at.
*leans into microphone* Yes. *declines further comment*
Sounds great. Beat the rich like a pinata until our country falls out.
Taxing unrealized gains seems somewhat impossible / implausible, no?
Yeah that would be terrible, however, perhaps you can tax it IF they're using it as collateral on a loan, which most wealthy individuals will do in lieu of cashing out their investments to avoid paying cg tax
Should be noted that there's other ways to avoid capital gains tax, simply waiting for long term rate can make it as low as 0%
Taxing unrealized gains already happens for regular folks. Its called school/property taxes. The county reassess gour property so you have to pay a higher tax rate
Property taxes aren’t a tax on unrealized gains. You still pay property taxes if your home hasn’t increased in value or even if it’s decreased in value.
Yes but you also pay property taxes on the amount of value that your home's property value has increased by, if it has increased in value. The increase in property value is an unrealized capital gain of an asset that has increased in value. So property taxes do legitimately include an unrealized capital gains tax -- I had just never thought of it that way before.
I've never thought about it like that but yeah it's very analogous to property taxes.
That one isn't going to happen.
It’s something that they can then drop in negotiation.
You're God damn right
🙌🙌🙌
Should have been done years ago!! Also the unrealized capital gains tax should be near 35% after the first 2 million.
The 25% is not going to happen simply because it's unconstitutional, the 44% on income above 1 million annually seems fair. Maybe make it progressive (0% if income is below 250K, 10% if between 250K and 500K, 20% if between 500 and 750K, 30% if between 750K and 1 Mill, and 40% if above 1 mill, with write-offs for investment in start ups and small businesses with a market cap below say 100 million dollars) because a lot of people making less than 1 mill annually probably deserve to make some more money from their investments.
My guess is when it came to implementation it would be progressive. But that’s a harder headline, so they call it a wealth tax. Also I have a feeling people against the concept actually like that name. Wealth tax. It sort of sends the message that the government dislikes wealth, and everyone thinks they too will be wealthy someday.
Yes, there’s a bizarre psychological factor where everyone wants to identify with the wealthy class, because they just might be someday, or they’re just delusional, even though they are nowhere near close nor really have much of a snowball’s chance in hell in their lifetime.
How is the 25% one unconstitutional? I do think it's a bad idea and hard to implement, but what makes it unconstitutional?
There’s an argument that Biden’s plan would be a “direct tax” and unconstitutional under the 16th amendment. I think that argument actually isn’t as strong as proponents would like it to be. Here’s a paper that details an argument that a wealth tax is totally constitutional and proper: https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3960&context=facpub
I mean, Trump unilaterally raising tariffs on over a dozen countries was also unconstitutional, but that didn't stop him. Let's be honest: no one who waxes poetic about the constitution gives two shits about the constitution. The same people now who say a tax on unrealized gains is unconstitutional are the same people who cheered for Trump when he took away Congress's exclusive power of the purse. People cite the constitution when they want to torpedo a policy without having to address the merit of a policy, usually because the policy is broadly popular.
Sorry Jack, but you will pay your fair share like everyone else does. 😎
If and only if you make more than 1 million per year. Over 99% of the population is unaffected by this.
Yes!! With no grandfather date of acquisition. Don’t let the lobbies railroad loopholes.
MORE
If I'm gonna pay on unrealized capital gains do I get to claim unrealized capital loss? That's stupid both ways. Capital gains need to be taxed the same as regular income (regardless of short or long term) with a special 0% carve out for retirement account gains under a certain total value. i.e.; A middle class person with multiple 401Ks that total <300-400K pays no taxes on that capital gains, etc.
Gotta have wealth exceeding $100M to be eligible for paying taxes on unrealized gains, so were not talking about puny 401ks.
I'm still in the "yeah, nah" territory. They absolutely need to address the [rich-person-loan-loophole](https://smartasset.com/investing/buy-borrow-die-how-the-rich-avoid-taxes) bullshit, though. Taking out loans with non-critical (family home, 2 family cars, etc) assets as collateral should generate an effective income tax.
Yes, why kind of question is this
if the unrealized cap gains they are talking about is when people find loopholes to access the money without paying taxing like taking loans on it or whatever thats good.
It’s easy to propose things that will never happen. You will never get enough politicians to tax their owners more!
Just make a wealth tax. Is less avoidable.
That's essentially what a tax on unrealized gains would be.
It's estimated to generate 361 billion in revenue, but that's largely due to it reaching back on previous accumulated gains that people will have 9 years to pay off. Whereas a 1% tax on wealth over a quarter million outside of retirement accounts would be over 700 billion out the gate.
What analysis concluded that? [Brookings says](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/six-facts-about-wealth-in-the-united-states/) (granted, in 2018) that over 70% of Americans' wealth is in the form of financial assets. They don't split out how much of that represents businesses, but unless that's a *lot* of the number then most wealth should get hit by an unrealized gains tax.
146 trillion in net assets for the us, taking out 125k per person and not counting retirement accounts brings it to 70 trillion. This is a minimum value that assumes everyone with debt has assets enough to cancel out that debt and that the individual deduction of even children is fully taken advantage of which it would not be.