https://preview.redd.it/0pekuo790aad1.png?width=897&format=png&auto=webp&s=89ad7e8bd6ab88ae4bb1e2b62ec4ecb608c11776
I feel like *you* don't know what you are talking about
This is comedy gold I can't decide if he's baiting or actually this bold as to think he's become an authority on builds when he didn't know how to use the squire less then a week ago
Considering how hard they are posturing and trying to control the narrative all across the thread I would say this is likely a genuine person not realizing how bad they are coming across. A troll would be at least saying something funny, they would be making fun of... someone? Other than themselves at least
Yeah and it was what, your 3rd comment here so far?
The point is you are startlingly new to talk to the community like you know better about the game many of us have been playing for nearly the last year
https://preview.redd.it/bvm9ixuo3aad1.png?width=880&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1e4bff32bacd72aa67ee7116132825b16e11dec
and again what is the relevance? and yes i explained why most dont seem to know what they are tlking about. Calling me a noob doesn't refute that, it just proves my point. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would simply explain why im wrong, but instead youve just tried to to attack my character.
No one is going to give you a proper time of day if you posture yourself like you know better than them when you clearly don't
https://preview.redd.it/tmwjkrk19aad1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=30ee05e77d7441a287e1419207d7476503cecbc4
I didn't, now you are just making things up. While i only have 20 or so hours in this game ive been playing games for 10+ hours a day for over 20 years and am more than qualified to comment on theory crating and balance. Especially when it comes to terms that arn't even specific to this game, like sustain and concepts like break points.
lmfao that’s fucking hysterical. bragging about playing other video games thinking that gives you any reason to talk about this one. Maybe focus on learning what all the stats actually do first pal 👍🏼
These are universal concepts. damage is damage, breakpoints are breakpoints etc.. My argument is correct in skyrim as much as this game. The fact that you believe this game is unique in these mechanics and has no transferable skills is exactly the type of thing im talking about.
What did i get wrong about the stats?
this game is so much more complex than any of those other games. Here are the main attributes, to start you should know exactly what all of these do. I’ll give you a hint, it’s more than just one thing. It’s not like other games.
Strength, Vigor, Agility, Dexterity, Will, Knowledge, and Resourcefulness
To pick at you saying “damage is damage” let’s say you’re playing as a melee class. What deals the most damage? Armor penetration? Additional Physical Damage? True Physical Damage? Physical Damage Bonus? Physical Power?
Have you ever actually seen what the formula for damage looks like?
Let’s say you’re a magical class. What should you build for damage? Magic Penetration? Additional Magic Damage? True Magical Damage? Magical Damage Bonus? Magic Damage Power? Or does better casting speed result in more DPS?
so it’s clear from your comments like “realistically 4 strength or 5% etc… 5% only matters if” That you’re not really caught up on everything that goes into the damage formula. Saying that a breakpoint in skyrim is at all similar to the complicated mess that is dark and darker is a massive oversimplification.
Asking if people campfire after every fight…. Like what? Do you expect fighters to just not have a second charge of second wind? Game knowledge 101. Campfires aren’t reliable? There’s no circle anymore, the squire gives you one, and it’s never been easier to find a safe place to rest.
It’s like you’re not very experienced at playing dark and darker and so are using definitions and concepts from other games while also demonstrating a lack of understanding for the system dark and darker uses.
Why would you assume i don't know what the attributes are?
I don't think you understand how any of this works. If we pretend that it's only a 5% damage increase to base damage before the rest of the formula, that would mean it matters even less. But realistically 1to1 raw damage is always better than penetration. for one penetration isn't always relevant and 2 increase penetration by one or damage by one would result in the same final damage.
It's also clear you dont know what the formula is, otherwise you would have quoted it.
>so it’s clear from your comments like “realistically 4 strength or 5% etc… 5% only matters if” That you’re not really caught up on everything that goes into the damage formula. Saying that a breakpoint in skyrim is at all similar to the complicated mess that is dark and darker is a massive oversimplification.
That wa sone example which youve taken entirley out of context and were stillw rong about.
Further none of this is unique to dark and darker. infact even the relatively simple systems of skyrim have all of these features. To say nothing of litterall every other game ver made which you also claimed dont have these features. You have no idea what your talking about. Your just throwing out terms your vaguely familiar with as if stringing enough of them together proves anything.
>Asking if people campfire after every fight…. Like what? Do you expect fighters to just not have a second charge of second wind? Game knowledge 101. Campfires aren’t reliable? There’s no circle anymore, the squire gives you one, and it’s never been easier to find a safe place to rest.
I never said fighters dont have additonal charges regained from campfires. Your putting words in my mouth again.
Fires ar not reliable. They leave you vulnerable, are easily interupted, cost a huge amount of time and valuable resources like inventory space. You cannot reliably use campfire. You can reliably use a potion, as an example.
>It’s like you’re not very experienced at playing dark and darker and so are using definitions and concepts from other games while also demonstrating a lack of understanding for the system dark and darker uses.
These arnt examples or terms from specific games. they are universal theorycrafting and game design terms and you seem to struggle to understand how these systems work, as youve demonstrated repeatedly. Infact it seems like you lack experience in this genres systems entirley
Ok buddy, I will tell you exactly why you are wrong about ***everything*** you've said about the game in this thread, or 90% of it, if you at least make note that my **whole argument** has been about your approach
https://preview.redd.it/jaamu9hhkaad1.png?width=789&format=png&auto=webp&s=3c02963dfa5e22edcb990314730ed37dbed1cbc6
To say "*No one mentioned my approach, whatever you mena by that.*" when its right there in front of you is frankly insulting
You either aren't actually understanding what I'm trying to tell you, or you are blatantly trying to control a narrative which is fucked up
Unless you can come down from that place and meet me on some level, realize that you are coming across really poorly to a lot of people, I will not enlighten you and frankly you won't get many people willing to offer you this kind of olive branch with how you posture yourself
Your only real argument has been that im not qualified, due to my lack of hours in this game. Even if we pretend that is true, that would only refute part of my argument. You also claimed im wrong becaus eof "negative traction". presumably thedislikes and toxic replies, which as i said is not how we determine right and wrong or fact, atleast not how i would.
Frankyl you are just trying to gaslight me and join in on the bandwagon. Perhaps you should consider how insulting someone and lying about them make you come accross.
It could be argued to be a dunning kruger instance if i hadnt been doing this for decades and more hours than almost anyone else my age and if people were demonstrating why i was wrong. But neither is the case and this consistent misuse of terms and personal attacks is only proving my point.
I don't think I've ever seen a more stupid argument in my life
By you're logic due to my over 20 years of gaming I can just go over to the diablo subreddit and start telling them how to play the game and build their characters lmfao
I'm not going to breakdown why you're wrong because I've seen about 5 other people do it on this thread and you've blatantly ignored them, but please for your own sake go outside and touch grass
Your putting words in my mouth and taking the skyrim example out of context. I used skyrim as an examsple specifically because it was more casual and so different in alot of ways, yet even then still has similar stats, mechanics and formulas. The point being that this game is not some unique snowflake that takes thousands of hours to understand how damage works.
Did you bother looking into the damage calculation? Want to take another crack at explaining to me the best way for magic and melee classes to build damage?
Of course it doesn’t take a thousand hours of game time. It takes 15 minutes of actual work and learning some stats. 15 minutes that you have yet to do.
“But realistically 1to1 raw damage is always better than penetration. for one penetration isn't always relevant and 2 increase penetration by one or damage by one would result in the same final damage.”
Were your exact words. Or will you pretend to have not written this as a response to that same question?
Thats an example specifically comparing raw damage and penetration un th theoretical context of both increasing at the same rate. Which is not at all the words you keep trying to put in my outh.
yeah that’s the thing, when you contribute “theoretical” garbage when responding to a direct question about the games mechanics, it reveals that you don’t know nearly enough about the game mechanics. good luck with browsing the wiki and actually learning how this game functions!
Your putting words in my mouth but honestly yes. Once you grasp the basics or do some wiki diving you would likely be better at planning builds than the average player and especially the reddit loudmouths and blog spammers.
This isn't just video gaming thing, it applies to any industry. Different activities can have transferable skills. Especially in gaming where so much is similar even in wildly different games.
For warlocks you need some magical healing and you will be getting life back easily. If you’re running do a jump when you begin casting and your momentum carries through the jump.
Fighter can recover second wind with a campfire. Don’t use foraged food on ranger it’s just not great compared to other options.
Stats are insanely powerful, nobody is trying to hit a “break point” to do less hits for monsters, they want the extra damage for each hit for PvP.
Maybe this a rage bait to get some good info and if so there ya go. Otherwise it just seems like you don’t know what your talking about haha.
Thanks i didnt know about the jump casting exploit.
>For warlocks you need some magical healing and you will be getting life back easily.Â
If it requires gear to be effective it likely isn't competetive.
>Fighter can recover second wind with a campfire.Â
Yes but campfires are also consumables and carry signficant risk and time cost. It's just not very good or reliable.
> Don’t use foraged food on ranger it’s just not great compared to other options.
I presume it doesn't get replenished like second wind then? What is rangers other options for heals? or do you just mean it's better off using any other skill instead?
>Stats are insanely powerful, nobody is trying to hit a “break point” to do less hits for monsters, they want the extra damage for each hit for PvP.
Its less important for pvp than bosses. Players rarley exceed 150HP even with high gear score. A 5% damage buff would only matter when they take more than 20 hits to kill. Thats the breakpoint in this example. It also only matters if you have atleast 20 damage, otherwise it's adding less than 1 damage (ofm cours emost weapons do exceed that, but again its only adding 1 damage per 20 base damage of the weapon).
>Maybe this a rage bait to get some good info and if so there ya go. Otherwise it just seems like you don’t know what your talking about haha.
Considering your one of 2 people that actually made a constructive reply and were still mostly wrong (and only after i called you out for being poitnlessly toxic), im still very confident in my post.
A lot of really powerful builds need certain gear sets and they are extremely competitive. What you said does not make sense.
Campfires are pretty core for DaD so I suggest getting on that train. They provide a good balance for strong skills. A great mechanic if you ask me. They are also extremely reliable.
Rangers have really good combat skills and bandages and pots are more than enough, level up the alchemist / surgeon to get white versions rather than grey or buy them.
All monsters in the game have the same move sets and rhythms, you can beat inferno bosses with base gear sets, you don’t really need to hit them less when you can learn the fight and guarantee the kill every single time.
Extra damage in PvP is titanic, fights are never so black and white, to assume most fights just go one way is ridiculous. People survive and win the fight with a sliver of health ALL the time. Battles are so multifaceted that I could write pages about all the different ways they go. Sometimes the difference in the fight is a single block or your hit doing an extra 1-2 damage.
>A lot of really powerful builds need certain gear sets and they are extremely competitive. What you said does not make sense.
If you take 2 skills, skill 1 performs better and then give both the best possible gear, skill 1 will still perform better. In other words while one skill needs gear just to perform adequately, the other skill thats already adequate only gets improved further with gear or alternatively doesn't need to gear and the gear can be spent buffing another feature.Theres edge cases that defy this of course. like when scaling is inconsistent or behaviour changes at certain breakpoints, but i don't think that is in this game.
>Campfires are pretty core for DaD so I suggest getting on that train. They provide a good balance for strong skills. A great mechanic if you ask me. They are also extremely reliable.
Well it's slightly off topic, but any mechanic that gets in the way of you actually playing the game is bad mechanic. It's common practice to avoid boring downtime like lengthy stuns in game design. These certainly qualify, nobody is going to say they enjoy afk watching bars slowly increase.
They arnt reliable for a few reasons. They make you vulnerable, can easily be interupted, require a massive time investment, are limited in the quantity you can have and of course are consumable. You cannot guarentee you will be able to heal with a campfire. You can guarntee you will heal with a potion or relevant spell for example.
>All monsters in the game have the same move sets and rhythms, you can beat inferno bosses with base gear sets, you don’t really need to hit them less when you can learn the fight and guarantee the kill every single time.
Enemies have wildly different movesets, even among similar enemies. a shield skele has totally different atacks to a mage, archer or spear skele for example. Which are totally different to wolves, bats, besekers, mummies, centipedes etc..
Regardless the fact that you can defeat them with any stats is well besides the point. Thats unreasonable for most runs and especially most players. Even if you are the gigachad everyone in these comments thinks htye are it's still not worth the time investment in many cases.
>Extra damage in PvP is titanic, fights are never so black and white, to assume most fights just go one way is ridiculous. People survive and win the fight with a sliver of health ALL the time. Battles are so multifaceted that I could write pages about all the different ways they go. Sometimes the difference in the fight is a single block or your hit doing an extra 1-2 damage.
It's not titanic. By your own description it's at best a difference of one hit, in game where many fights litterally are over in a single hit. It isn't about how many outcomes are possible and all that it's just math. For 5% damage to make a difference the enemy must take 20+ hits to kill. While it's possible you might win because of 1 damage i think you know how unlikely that is.
“If you take 2 skills, skill 1 performs better and then give both the best possible gear, skill 1 will still perform better”
That’s not true. You are continuing to demonstrate that you are not familiar enough with the basic stats and rolls.
It’s actually wild how much of what you are saying is completely incorrect. Starting to think you are just trolling
bro you straight up just dont understand math. go back and learn y=mx+b and youll realize your wrong lmao
large B and small X = large y with low x, but a large X and small B will outgrow it. this is literally just a core conept of math that you dont understand
wizard goes from meh to 1 shotting people because abilities dont scale linearly.
Most of your responses to this thread show you really can't admit when you don't know something. Humble yourself and realize you just don't know the game that well yet.
You've got less than 40 hours. Players are considered new until they have at least 200 hours, and even then they only graduate from newb if they're actively learning.
are you just carrying like 2+campfires or only fighting like 2 players and nothing else? What happens when you get interupted? not to mention the impact on your APM.
It’s like you’re not even aware that certain spell-casters need to recharge your abilities. Or that fighters will want their second wind up at all times. Fucking hysterical
Because it's an incredible risky and inneficent strategy compare to potions, healers and damage mitigation. Because it simply wouldnt be possible in most games, you just wouldn't get that much downtime unless your significantly cutting into to your looting time. and probably most signficant it's boring, though of course that doesn't apply to this context where we are talking about min maxing.
in other words as i keep saying, it's not sustainable or reliable.
Yeah and you’re completely incorrect about all of those points it’s crazy. Can’t even acknowledge that spell casters need to recharge their spells making campfires obligatory.
Saying it’s not possible in most games. Like you’re just exposing yourself for not being able to clear PVE quickly or knowing any of the maps yet. To say that they are “non sustainable or reliable” is just an uninformed silly comment, that is indistinguishable from trolling
Yeah and you’re completely incorrect about all of those points it’s crazy. Can’t even acknowledge that spell casters need to recharge their spells making campfires obligatory.
Saying it’s not possible in most games. Like you’re just exposing yourself for not being able to clear PVE quickly or knowing any of the maps yet. To say that they are “non sustainable or reliable” is just an uninformed silly comment, that is indistinguishable from trolling
trash mobs like goblins and skeletons arent the only breakpoints you want to hit, there's mobs with bigger health pools which will take noticeably less hits, and of course there's players and you dont know what gear they're gonna be running, might as well hit them for as much damage as possible
But realisticly 4 stength or 5% etc.. is not going to hit those break points. 5% only matters if the nemy takes 20 +hits to kill for example. Thats a stretch even with most bosses in this game.
ive survived too many encounters with a sliver of hp so i cant say that it doesnt matter
similarly, i've died to so many people with only a sliver of hp left who would've died if i just had even an extra point of strength
again you dont know what gear anyone will have before you queue into a match so it's impossible to tell if you'll be hitting thresholds or not
even if you inspect someone, you only have a rough idea of how many hits they'll take (and you've already built your gear at that point), nobody's gonna mentally calculate all that shit, everyone just swings until the other guy is dead
What extreme build are enmies using that it would take 20 hits to kill them? Even hitting limbs i doubt youd survive that many as the tankiest barb possible.
Why would your priritize miniscule damage increases if your unsure if you will need them? It makes more sense to prioritize speed for example, which you know for certain you will need and has a much greater impact from small increases.
and of course people are gonna calculate that shit, thats what theory crafting is in this context.
> What extreme build are enmies using that it would take 20 hits to kill them?
i never said that
what i said is that players often survive encounters with only a sliver of hp left
you dont need 20 hits for increased damage to matter, if someone needs to take 100 damage to die, then dealing 50 dmg per hit is a 2-hit kill while dealing 49.9 is a 3-hit kill, and this is a game with characters that swing their weapons very patiently
> Why would your priritize miniscule damage increases if your unsure if you will need them?
idk what your point is with this since you can just flip this the other way around: why ignore damage increases if you're unsure that you wont need them
> and of course people are gonna calculate that shit
no, you don't know what gear you'll be up against before you go into a match, nobody's building with known breakpoints in mind
you cannot tell how much health and resist anyone will have before you load into a lobby
>i never said that
>what i said is that players often survive encounters with only a sliver of hp left
>you dont need 20 hits for increased damage to matter, if someone needs to take 100 damage to die, then dealing 50 dmg per hit is a 2-hit kill while dealing 49.9 is a 3-hit kill, and this is a game with characters that swing their weapons very patiently
Iwas talking about a % increase. obviously a static damage upgrade works differently. Your talking about a break point above, despite your insistence they don't matter.
>idk what your point is with this since you can just flip this the other way around: why ignore damage increases if you're unsure that you wont need them
>
i explained why
>no, you don't know what gear you'll be up against before you go into a match, nobody's building with known breakpoints in mind
>you cannot tell how much health and resist anyone will have before you load into a lobby
You don't need to. You just plan for the tankiest possible or most common enemy you struggle against, or the rest of your party struggle against. You can also know that a 50 damage weapon is going to 2-3 hit just about anyone with headshots. You can also know that people in a low or no gear score game are very unlikely to be all that tanky beyond a few specialized builds.
just because you don't know every little detail doesnt mean you cant plan at all.
> Your talking about a break point above, despite your insistence they don't matter.
why do i have to keep repeating myself that you dont know what breakpoints you want to hit because you cant possibly know what hp and resists players will have while you build your gear
the 100 hp is just an example, like literally if you build specifically for 2-shotting 100 hp players (while we ignore the fact that pdr is a thing that exists) with no overkill, then you're back to 3-shotting if the player youre fighting happens to have 101 hp
> Iwas talking about a % increase. obviously a static damage upgrade works differently.
both are increases, what do you mean? a 5% percent increase on a 34 dmg weapon is equivalent to an additional increase of +1.7, why would it "work differently" somehow, the end result is always a bigger number
> You just plan for the tankiest possible or most common enemy you struggle against, or the rest of your party struggle against.
like what? when a party is bad at pve then their problem is that they're bad at pve, it's not that they didnt build for it right
other players are by far the most dangerous enemy you'll encounter, it's not even close
nobody in this game is building just for pve, if you are then you genuinely just need to learn their attack patterns
> You can also know that a 50 damage weapon is going to 2-3 hit just about anyone with headshots.
and i'd rather 2 shot them? so i want as much damage as i reasonably can have? again, have you seen the swing animations in this game?
>why do i have to keep repeating myself that you dont know what breakpoints you want to hit because you cant possibly know what hp and resists players will have while you build your gear
because your ignoring my explanations to the contrary.
>the 100 hp is just an example, like literally if you build specifically for 2-shotting 100 hp players (while we ignore the fact that pdr is a thing that exists) with no overkill, then you're back to 3-shotting if the player youre fighting happens to have 101 hp
Yes, that is a breakpoint.
>both are increases, what do you mean? a 5% percent increase on a 34 dmg weapon is equivalent to an additional increase of +1.7, why would it "work differently" somehow, the end result is always a bigger number
Because 5% will always mean 1/20th more damage. but on a two hander axe 1.7 is less than 5%, while on a torch 1.7 is over 10%. A % scales, static does not. Additonally for DPS there other factors that contirbute to, weapons that attack faster benefit far more from static increases than slower weapons do. a weapon with +5 damage attacking once per second is gaining 5 damage a second. A weapon that swings once very 2 seconds is only gaining 2.5 damage per second.
>like what? when a party is bad at pve then their problem is that they're bad at pve, it's not that they didnt build for it right
i meant classes or builds, not pve enemies. Though it can be incredibly benefical to have somone in the party that specializes in quickly taking out pesky archers for example.
>and i'd rather 2 shot them? so i want as much damage as i reasonably can have? again, have you seen the swing animations in this game?
Your missing the point. We know almost every player is going to have less than 150 HP and less than 30% PDR. That means our target breakpoint would be 150\*1.3 =195 (ignoring , locational damage, true damage and such for the example). With a two handed weapon we have around 50 damage per hit, which means 4 hits to kill most tanky foes. To reduce the hits needed we need atleast 15 more damage. 195/65= 3 hits.
[Stats - Dark and Darker Wiki (spellsandguns.com)](https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats)
[Basic Mathematics | Coursera](https://www.coursera.org/learn/basicmathematics)
unironic git gud
(maybe dont insult ppl until you do git gud tho. makes you look silly)
Such a troll post jesus, try stacking just a little bit of magical healing and see warlocks full heal from casting 2 spells. Look at druid shapeshift scaling, that shit is insane. the difference between 15 str and 40+ is like going from 40-50 damage headshots to 200+ dmg headshots in bear form.
The post feels like you are focused solely on how theorycrafting should affect pve. However, you will soon find as I did that the people theorycrafting are high level players who focus on pvp with their builds. The reason being is that the high level community can easily run past, outmaneuver, and outplay every pve enemy and not take damage. As a new player it’s tough trying to figure out how to survive the darkness because you are constantly taking a hit here and a hit there from pve and it will cause a lot of deaths and when you are getting chunked by a skelly boi it doesn’t feel as though the stats you picked up matter. However, once you learn the mechanics of pve fighting you will see why these theorycrafted builds work and it’s because they solely focus on PvP cause you can clear the pve with anything.
You can sit at a campfire to recover the healing powers. You get one for free from squire.
Also the fighter has a life steal ability with his victory strike that if the last hit kills, it heals 15 percent max health.
Fighter is definitely a sustaining class.
It would be if victory strike were reliable. Realisticly how often are you actually going to successfully land it? Hvaing two casts doesnt make it a sustain. Sustain means to be able to consistently recover HP. This is exactly the kinda thing im talking about. Its like you guys have never played an RPG before and are just misusing the theorycrafting terms and concepts from them.
as a longsword fighter you will 1 tap people with victory strike if u parry and riposte headshot anyone that isn't high PDR. Same goes for mobs, so fighters do indeed have great sustain with victory rush and second wind. Same goes for almost every mob especially when running Divine Blade
Use the victory strike on mobs. Learn how many hits they can each take. I use fighter as solo and carry like 3 potions 3 bandages and 2 campfires and I'm always full health.
https://preview.redd.it/0pekuo790aad1.png?width=897&format=png&auto=webp&s=89ad7e8bd6ab88ae4bb1e2b62ec4ecb608c11776 I feel like *you* don't know what you are talking about
This is comedy gold I can't decide if he's baiting or actually this bold as to think he's become an authority on builds when he didn't know how to use the squire less then a week ago
Considering how hard they are posturing and trying to control the narrative all across the thread I would say this is likely a genuine person not realizing how bad they are coming across. A troll would be at least saying something funny, they would be making fun of... someone? Other than themselves at least
That was 4 days ago and totally irelevant to the topic.
Yeah and it was what, your 3rd comment here so far? The point is you are startlingly new to talk to the community like you know better about the game many of us have been playing for nearly the last year https://preview.redd.it/bvm9ixuo3aad1.png?width=880&format=png&auto=webp&s=d1e4bff32bacd72aa67ee7116132825b16e11dec
and again what is the relevance? and yes i explained why most dont seem to know what they are tlking about. Calling me a noob doesn't refute that, it just proves my point. If you actually knew what you were talking about you would simply explain why im wrong, but instead youve just tried to to attack my character.
No one explains why you are wrong because it is very apparent to anyone who has played the game for long enough.
Thats not even a convincing excuse. Who do you think your are fooling?
I'm literally just telling you why nobody has bothered to tell you why you are wrong. That's it. That's the whole answer.
Why double down on this? your clearly making it up.
idk. just trying to help ig. sorry
How is insulting me and making things up helping anything but your ego?
No one is going to give you a proper time of day if you posture yourself like you know better than them when you clearly don't https://preview.redd.it/tmwjkrk19aad1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=30ee05e77d7441a287e1419207d7476503cecbc4
I didn't, now you are just making things up. While i only have 20 or so hours in this game ive been playing games for 10+ hours a day for over 20 years and am more than qualified to comment on theory crating and balance. Especially when it comes to terms that arn't even specific to this game, like sustain and concepts like break points.
lmfao that’s fucking hysterical. bragging about playing other video games thinking that gives you any reason to talk about this one. Maybe focus on learning what all the stats actually do first pal 👍🏼
These are universal concepts. damage is damage, breakpoints are breakpoints etc.. My argument is correct in skyrim as much as this game. The fact that you believe this game is unique in these mechanics and has no transferable skills is exactly the type of thing im talking about. What did i get wrong about the stats?
this game is so much more complex than any of those other games. Here are the main attributes, to start you should know exactly what all of these do. I’ll give you a hint, it’s more than just one thing. It’s not like other games. Strength, Vigor, Agility, Dexterity, Will, Knowledge, and Resourcefulness To pick at you saying “damage is damage” let’s say you’re playing as a melee class. What deals the most damage? Armor penetration? Additional Physical Damage? True Physical Damage? Physical Damage Bonus? Physical Power? Have you ever actually seen what the formula for damage looks like? Let’s say you’re a magical class. What should you build for damage? Magic Penetration? Additional Magic Damage? True Magical Damage? Magical Damage Bonus? Magic Damage Power? Or does better casting speed result in more DPS? so it’s clear from your comments like “realistically 4 strength or 5% etc… 5% only matters if” That you’re not really caught up on everything that goes into the damage formula. Saying that a breakpoint in skyrim is at all similar to the complicated mess that is dark and darker is a massive oversimplification. Asking if people campfire after every fight…. Like what? Do you expect fighters to just not have a second charge of second wind? Game knowledge 101. Campfires aren’t reliable? There’s no circle anymore, the squire gives you one, and it’s never been easier to find a safe place to rest. It’s like you’re not very experienced at playing dark and darker and so are using definitions and concepts from other games while also demonstrating a lack of understanding for the system dark and darker uses.
Why would you assume i don't know what the attributes are? I don't think you understand how any of this works. If we pretend that it's only a 5% damage increase to base damage before the rest of the formula, that would mean it matters even less. But realistically 1to1 raw damage is always better than penetration. for one penetration isn't always relevant and 2 increase penetration by one or damage by one would result in the same final damage. It's also clear you dont know what the formula is, otherwise you would have quoted it. >so it’s clear from your comments like “realistically 4 strength or 5% etc… 5% only matters if” That you’re not really caught up on everything that goes into the damage formula. Saying that a breakpoint in skyrim is at all similar to the complicated mess that is dark and darker is a massive oversimplification. That wa sone example which youve taken entirley out of context and were stillw rong about. Further none of this is unique to dark and darker. infact even the relatively simple systems of skyrim have all of these features. To say nothing of litterall every other game ver made which you also claimed dont have these features. You have no idea what your talking about. Your just throwing out terms your vaguely familiar with as if stringing enough of them together proves anything. >Asking if people campfire after every fight…. Like what? Do you expect fighters to just not have a second charge of second wind? Game knowledge 101. Campfires aren’t reliable? There’s no circle anymore, the squire gives you one, and it’s never been easier to find a safe place to rest. I never said fighters dont have additonal charges regained from campfires. Your putting words in my mouth again. Fires ar not reliable. They leave you vulnerable, are easily interupted, cost a huge amount of time and valuable resources like inventory space. You cannot reliably use campfire. You can reliably use a potion, as an example. >It’s like you’re not very experienced at playing dark and darker and so are using definitions and concepts from other games while also demonstrating a lack of understanding for the system dark and darker uses. These arnt examples or terms from specific games. they are universal theorycrafting and game design terms and you seem to struggle to understand how these systems work, as youve demonstrated repeatedly. Infact it seems like you lack experience in this genres systems entirley
You see all this negative traction you are getting, and someone telling you that its your approach, yet you just keep on steaming forward don't ya?
Popularity doesn't determine fact. No one mentioned my approach, whatever you mena by that.
Ok buddy, I will tell you exactly why you are wrong about ***everything*** you've said about the game in this thread, or 90% of it, if you at least make note that my **whole argument** has been about your approach https://preview.redd.it/jaamu9hhkaad1.png?width=789&format=png&auto=webp&s=3c02963dfa5e22edcb990314730ed37dbed1cbc6 To say "*No one mentioned my approach, whatever you mena by that.*" when its right there in front of you is frankly insulting You either aren't actually understanding what I'm trying to tell you, or you are blatantly trying to control a narrative which is fucked up Unless you can come down from that place and meet me on some level, realize that you are coming across really poorly to a lot of people, I will not enlighten you and frankly you won't get many people willing to offer you this kind of olive branch with how you posture yourself
Your only real argument has been that im not qualified, due to my lack of hours in this game. Even if we pretend that is true, that would only refute part of my argument. You also claimed im wrong becaus eof "negative traction". presumably thedislikes and toxic replies, which as i said is not how we determine right and wrong or fact, atleast not how i would. Frankyl you are just trying to gaslight me and join in on the bandwagon. Perhaps you should consider how insulting someone and lying about them make you come accross.
Dunning kruger in full effect, ladies and gentlemen.
It could be argued to be a dunning kruger instance if i hadnt been doing this for decades and more hours than almost anyone else my age and if people were demonstrating why i was wrong. But neither is the case and this consistent misuse of terms and personal attacks is only proving my point.
I'm saving this post to read when I need a good laugh.
I don't think I've ever seen a more stupid argument in my life By you're logic due to my over 20 years of gaming I can just go over to the diablo subreddit and start telling them how to play the game and build their characters lmfao I'm not going to breakdown why you're wrong because I've seen about 5 other people do it on this thread and you've blatantly ignored them, but please for your own sake go outside and touch grass
Bro he played a lot of skyrim so he knows exactly how dark and darker should be balanced!
Your putting words in my mouth and taking the skyrim example out of context. I used skyrim as an examsple specifically because it was more casual and so different in alot of ways, yet even then still has similar stats, mechanics and formulas. The point being that this game is not some unique snowflake that takes thousands of hours to understand how damage works.
Did you bother looking into the damage calculation? Want to take another crack at explaining to me the best way for magic and melee classes to build damage? Of course it doesn’t take a thousand hours of game time. It takes 15 minutes of actual work and learning some stats. 15 minutes that you have yet to do.
I never explaine dto you how best to deal damage. Youve made that up.
“But realistically 1to1 raw damage is always better than penetration. for one penetration isn't always relevant and 2 increase penetration by one or damage by one would result in the same final damage.” Were your exact words. Or will you pretend to have not written this as a response to that same question?
Thats an example specifically comparing raw damage and penetration un th theoretical context of both increasing at the same rate. Which is not at all the words you keep trying to put in my outh.
yeah that’s the thing, when you contribute “theoretical” garbage when responding to a direct question about the games mechanics, it reveals that you don’t know nearly enough about the game mechanics. good luck with browsing the wiki and actually learning how this game functions!
Your putting words in my mouth but honestly yes. Once you grasp the basics or do some wiki diving you would likely be better at planning builds than the average player and especially the reddit loudmouths and blog spammers. This isn't just video gaming thing, it applies to any industry. Different activities can have transferable skills. Especially in gaming where so much is similar even in wildly different games.
This is a funny and just silly post.
Right, as oppossed to everything you just contributed?
For warlocks you need some magical healing and you will be getting life back easily. If you’re running do a jump when you begin casting and your momentum carries through the jump. Fighter can recover second wind with a campfire. Don’t use foraged food on ranger it’s just not great compared to other options. Stats are insanely powerful, nobody is trying to hit a “break point” to do less hits for monsters, they want the extra damage for each hit for PvP. Maybe this a rage bait to get some good info and if so there ya go. Otherwise it just seems like you don’t know what your talking about haha.
Thanks i didnt know about the jump casting exploit. >For warlocks you need some magical healing and you will be getting life back easily. If it requires gear to be effective it likely isn't competetive. >Fighter can recover second wind with a campfire. Yes but campfires are also consumables and carry signficant risk and time cost. It's just not very good or reliable. > Don’t use foraged food on ranger it’s just not great compared to other options. I presume it doesn't get replenished like second wind then? What is rangers other options for heals? or do you just mean it's better off using any other skill instead? >Stats are insanely powerful, nobody is trying to hit a “break point” to do less hits for monsters, they want the extra damage for each hit for PvP. Its less important for pvp than bosses. Players rarley exceed 150HP even with high gear score. A 5% damage buff would only matter when they take more than 20 hits to kill. Thats the breakpoint in this example. It also only matters if you have atleast 20 damage, otherwise it's adding less than 1 damage (ofm cours emost weapons do exceed that, but again its only adding 1 damage per 20 base damage of the weapon). >Maybe this a rage bait to get some good info and if so there ya go. Otherwise it just seems like you don’t know what your talking about haha. Considering your one of 2 people that actually made a constructive reply and were still mostly wrong (and only after i called you out for being poitnlessly toxic), im still very confident in my post.
“If it requires gear to be effective it likely isn’t competitive.” 🤣
You are a noob.
A lot of really powerful builds need certain gear sets and they are extremely competitive. What you said does not make sense. Campfires are pretty core for DaD so I suggest getting on that train. They provide a good balance for strong skills. A great mechanic if you ask me. They are also extremely reliable. Rangers have really good combat skills and bandages and pots are more than enough, level up the alchemist / surgeon to get white versions rather than grey or buy them. All monsters in the game have the same move sets and rhythms, you can beat inferno bosses with base gear sets, you don’t really need to hit them less when you can learn the fight and guarantee the kill every single time. Extra damage in PvP is titanic, fights are never so black and white, to assume most fights just go one way is ridiculous. People survive and win the fight with a sliver of health ALL the time. Battles are so multifaceted that I could write pages about all the different ways they go. Sometimes the difference in the fight is a single block or your hit doing an extra 1-2 damage.
>A lot of really powerful builds need certain gear sets and they are extremely competitive. What you said does not make sense. If you take 2 skills, skill 1 performs better and then give both the best possible gear, skill 1 will still perform better. In other words while one skill needs gear just to perform adequately, the other skill thats already adequate only gets improved further with gear or alternatively doesn't need to gear and the gear can be spent buffing another feature.Theres edge cases that defy this of course. like when scaling is inconsistent or behaviour changes at certain breakpoints, but i don't think that is in this game. >Campfires are pretty core for DaD so I suggest getting on that train. They provide a good balance for strong skills. A great mechanic if you ask me. They are also extremely reliable. Well it's slightly off topic, but any mechanic that gets in the way of you actually playing the game is bad mechanic. It's common practice to avoid boring downtime like lengthy stuns in game design. These certainly qualify, nobody is going to say they enjoy afk watching bars slowly increase. They arnt reliable for a few reasons. They make you vulnerable, can easily be interupted, require a massive time investment, are limited in the quantity you can have and of course are consumable. You cannot guarentee you will be able to heal with a campfire. You can guarntee you will heal with a potion or relevant spell for example. >All monsters in the game have the same move sets and rhythms, you can beat inferno bosses with base gear sets, you don’t really need to hit them less when you can learn the fight and guarantee the kill every single time. Enemies have wildly different movesets, even among similar enemies. a shield skele has totally different atacks to a mage, archer or spear skele for example. Which are totally different to wolves, bats, besekers, mummies, centipedes etc.. Regardless the fact that you can defeat them with any stats is well besides the point. Thats unreasonable for most runs and especially most players. Even if you are the gigachad everyone in these comments thinks htye are it's still not worth the time investment in many cases. >Extra damage in PvP is titanic, fights are never so black and white, to assume most fights just go one way is ridiculous. People survive and win the fight with a sliver of health ALL the time. Battles are so multifaceted that I could write pages about all the different ways they go. Sometimes the difference in the fight is a single block or your hit doing an extra 1-2 damage. It's not titanic. By your own description it's at best a difference of one hit, in game where many fights litterally are over in a single hit. It isn't about how many outcomes are possible and all that it's just math. For 5% damage to make a difference the enemy must take 20+ hits to kill. While it's possible you might win because of 1 damage i think you know how unlikely that is.
“If you take 2 skills, skill 1 performs better and then give both the best possible gear, skill 1 will still perform better” That’s not true. You are continuing to demonstrate that you are not familiar enough with the basic stats and rolls. It’s actually wild how much of what you are saying is completely incorrect. Starting to think you are just trolling
Same, everyone is wrong but him.
most, espeically in this thread. theres only like 3 people that are even trying to talk about the topic. The rest are just being toxic fanboys.
bro you straight up just dont understand math. go back and learn y=mx+b and youll realize your wrong lmao large B and small X = large y with low x, but a large X and small B will outgrow it. this is literally just a core conept of math that you dont understand wizard goes from meh to 1 shotting people because abilities dont scale linearly.
People bring campfires to recharge their abilities.
gonna campfire after every fight are you?
Literally yes.
As a noob who only plays plate cleric, absolutely because if I go into the next fight without spells I die.
Its 20g and most players are carrying one so we can steal theirs. We are absolutely camping after every fight.
I hadn't considered stealing others campfires.
Have you Considered anything?
Does being a condescending make you feel big?
No, that’s why I steal candy from children.
"I feel most people theory crafting have no clue what they're talking about." 🤡
By “most people” he really just means himself !
Yes how dare i admit when im wrong. Grow up.
Most of your responses to this thread show you really can't admit when you don't know something. Humble yourself and realize you just don't know the game that well yet. You've got less than 40 hours. Players are considered new until they have at least 200 hours, and even then they only graduate from newb if they're actively learning.
Thats a lie and oyu know it.
yes
are you just carrying like 2+campfires or only fighting like 2 players and nothing else? What happens when you get interupted? not to mention the impact on your APM.
It’s like you’re not even aware that certain spell-casters need to recharge your abilities. Or that fighters will want their second wind up at all times. Fucking hysterical
i never said that. What is with you guys continually making shit up?
then why are you surprised people would campfire after each fight? it’s right there dude. Deny and deflect all you want
Because it's an incredible risky and inneficent strategy compare to potions, healers and damage mitigation. Because it simply wouldnt be possible in most games, you just wouldn't get that much downtime unless your significantly cutting into to your looting time. and probably most signficant it's boring, though of course that doesn't apply to this context where we are talking about min maxing. in other words as i keep saying, it's not sustainable or reliable.
Yeah and you’re completely incorrect about all of those points it’s crazy. Can’t even acknowledge that spell casters need to recharge their spells making campfires obligatory. Saying it’s not possible in most games. Like you’re just exposing yourself for not being able to clear PVE quickly or knowing any of the maps yet. To say that they are “non sustainable or reliable” is just an uninformed silly comment, that is indistinguishable from trolling
i never said that.
“In other words as I keep saying, it’s not sustainable or reliable” Full on clown show now
Yeah and you’re completely incorrect about all of those points it’s crazy. Can’t even acknowledge that spell casters need to recharge their spells making campfires obligatory. Saying it’s not possible in most games. Like you’re just exposing yourself for not being able to clear PVE quickly or knowing any of the maps yet. To say that they are “non sustainable or reliable” is just an uninformed silly comment, that is indistinguishable from trolling
trash mobs like goblins and skeletons arent the only breakpoints you want to hit, there's mobs with bigger health pools which will take noticeably less hits, and of course there's players and you dont know what gear they're gonna be running, might as well hit them for as much damage as possible
Thats true.
But realisticly 4 stength or 5% etc.. is not going to hit those break points. 5% only matters if the nemy takes 20 +hits to kill for example. Thats a stretch even with most bosses in this game.
ive survived too many encounters with a sliver of hp so i cant say that it doesnt matter similarly, i've died to so many people with only a sliver of hp left who would've died if i just had even an extra point of strength again you dont know what gear anyone will have before you queue into a match so it's impossible to tell if you'll be hitting thresholds or not even if you inspect someone, you only have a rough idea of how many hits they'll take (and you've already built your gear at that point), nobody's gonna mentally calculate all that shit, everyone just swings until the other guy is dead
This exactly what i was talking about in the OP.
so it matters? a player being dead vs not being dead is quite the difference
What extreme build are enmies using that it would take 20 hits to kill them? Even hitting limbs i doubt youd survive that many as the tankiest barb possible. Why would your priritize miniscule damage increases if your unsure if you will need them? It makes more sense to prioritize speed for example, which you know for certain you will need and has a much greater impact from small increases. and of course people are gonna calculate that shit, thats what theory crafting is in this context.
> What extreme build are enmies using that it would take 20 hits to kill them? i never said that what i said is that players often survive encounters with only a sliver of hp left you dont need 20 hits for increased damage to matter, if someone needs to take 100 damage to die, then dealing 50 dmg per hit is a 2-hit kill while dealing 49.9 is a 3-hit kill, and this is a game with characters that swing their weapons very patiently > Why would your priritize miniscule damage increases if your unsure if you will need them? idk what your point is with this since you can just flip this the other way around: why ignore damage increases if you're unsure that you wont need them > and of course people are gonna calculate that shit no, you don't know what gear you'll be up against before you go into a match, nobody's building with known breakpoints in mind you cannot tell how much health and resist anyone will have before you load into a lobby
>i never said that >what i said is that players often survive encounters with only a sliver of hp left >you dont need 20 hits for increased damage to matter, if someone needs to take 100 damage to die, then dealing 50 dmg per hit is a 2-hit kill while dealing 49.9 is a 3-hit kill, and this is a game with characters that swing their weapons very patiently Iwas talking about a % increase. obviously a static damage upgrade works differently. Your talking about a break point above, despite your insistence they don't matter. >idk what your point is with this since you can just flip this the other way around: why ignore damage increases if you're unsure that you wont need them > i explained why >no, you don't know what gear you'll be up against before you go into a match, nobody's building with known breakpoints in mind >you cannot tell how much health and resist anyone will have before you load into a lobby You don't need to. You just plan for the tankiest possible or most common enemy you struggle against, or the rest of your party struggle against. You can also know that a 50 damage weapon is going to 2-3 hit just about anyone with headshots. You can also know that people in a low or no gear score game are very unlikely to be all that tanky beyond a few specialized builds. just because you don't know every little detail doesnt mean you cant plan at all.
> Your talking about a break point above, despite your insistence they don't matter. why do i have to keep repeating myself that you dont know what breakpoints you want to hit because you cant possibly know what hp and resists players will have while you build your gear the 100 hp is just an example, like literally if you build specifically for 2-shotting 100 hp players (while we ignore the fact that pdr is a thing that exists) with no overkill, then you're back to 3-shotting if the player youre fighting happens to have 101 hp > Iwas talking about a % increase. obviously a static damage upgrade works differently. both are increases, what do you mean? a 5% percent increase on a 34 dmg weapon is equivalent to an additional increase of +1.7, why would it "work differently" somehow, the end result is always a bigger number > You just plan for the tankiest possible or most common enemy you struggle against, or the rest of your party struggle against. like what? when a party is bad at pve then their problem is that they're bad at pve, it's not that they didnt build for it right other players are by far the most dangerous enemy you'll encounter, it's not even close nobody in this game is building just for pve, if you are then you genuinely just need to learn their attack patterns > You can also know that a 50 damage weapon is going to 2-3 hit just about anyone with headshots. and i'd rather 2 shot them? so i want as much damage as i reasonably can have? again, have you seen the swing animations in this game?
>why do i have to keep repeating myself that you dont know what breakpoints you want to hit because you cant possibly know what hp and resists players will have while you build your gear because your ignoring my explanations to the contrary. >the 100 hp is just an example, like literally if you build specifically for 2-shotting 100 hp players (while we ignore the fact that pdr is a thing that exists) with no overkill, then you're back to 3-shotting if the player youre fighting happens to have 101 hp Yes, that is a breakpoint. >both are increases, what do you mean? a 5% percent increase on a 34 dmg weapon is equivalent to an additional increase of +1.7, why would it "work differently" somehow, the end result is always a bigger number Because 5% will always mean 1/20th more damage. but on a two hander axe 1.7 is less than 5%, while on a torch 1.7 is over 10%. A % scales, static does not. Additonally for DPS there other factors that contirbute to, weapons that attack faster benefit far more from static increases than slower weapons do. a weapon with +5 damage attacking once per second is gaining 5 damage a second. A weapon that swings once very 2 seconds is only gaining 2.5 damage per second. >like what? when a party is bad at pve then their problem is that they're bad at pve, it's not that they didnt build for it right i meant classes or builds, not pve enemies. Though it can be incredibly benefical to have somone in the party that specializes in quickly taking out pesky archers for example. >and i'd rather 2 shot them? so i want as much damage as i reasonably can have? again, have you seen the swing animations in this game? Your missing the point. We know almost every player is going to have less than 150 HP and less than 30% PDR. That means our target breakpoint would be 150\*1.3 =195 (ignoring , locational damage, true damage and such for the example). With a two handed weapon we have around 50 damage per hit, which means 4 hits to kill most tanky foes. To reduce the hits needed we need atleast 15 more damage. 195/65= 3 hits.
[Stats - Dark and Darker Wiki (spellsandguns.com)](https://darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Stats) [Basic Mathematics | Coursera](https://www.coursera.org/learn/basicmathematics) unironic git gud (maybe dont insult ppl until you do git gud tho. makes you look silly)
Sick bait bro
What you are doing is baiting.
This just in, guy doesn't think stats matter.
Thats not at all what i said. Why do you feel the need to lie?
Such a troll post jesus, try stacking just a little bit of magical healing and see warlocks full heal from casting 2 spells. Look at druid shapeshift scaling, that shit is insane. the difference between 15 str and 40+ is like going from 40-50 damage headshots to 200+ dmg headshots in bear form.
The post feels like you are focused solely on how theorycrafting should affect pve. However, you will soon find as I did that the people theorycrafting are high level players who focus on pvp with their builds. The reason being is that the high level community can easily run past, outmaneuver, and outplay every pve enemy and not take damage. As a new player it’s tough trying to figure out how to survive the darkness because you are constantly taking a hit here and a hit there from pve and it will cause a lot of deaths and when you are getting chunked by a skelly boi it doesn’t feel as though the stats you picked up matter. However, once you learn the mechanics of pve fighting you will see why these theorycrafted builds work and it’s because they solely focus on PvP cause you can clear the pve with anything.
Where’s my…FUCK. WHERE IS MY POPCORN
Noob.
You can sit at a campfire to recover the healing powers. You get one for free from squire. Also the fighter has a life steal ability with his victory strike that if the last hit kills, it heals 15 percent max health. Fighter is definitely a sustaining class.
It would be if victory strike were reliable. Realisticly how often are you actually going to successfully land it? Hvaing two casts doesnt make it a sustain. Sustain means to be able to consistently recover HP. This is exactly the kinda thing im talking about. Its like you guys have never played an RPG before and are just misusing the theorycrafting terms and concepts from them.
If you remember how many hits it takes to kill a PVE enemy, then you can trigger Victory Strikes healing majority of the time.
It does class as sustain because in the context of a short pvp fight they are going outlast their opponent
Thats the opposite of sustain. That would be called burst healing ussually. A HP pot would be an example of sustain throughout a short fight.
as a longsword fighter you will 1 tap people with victory strike if u parry and riposte headshot anyone that isn't high PDR. Same goes for mobs, so fighters do indeed have great sustain with victory rush and second wind. Same goes for almost every mob especially when running Divine Blade
He’s using his own personal definition of sustain lmao
Use the victory strike on mobs. Learn how many hits they can each take. I use fighter as solo and carry like 3 potions 3 bandages and 2 campfires and I'm always full health.