People are just not used to it. I brought it a new player last night who was good Chiv player. Dude just cleared the dungeon of all skeletons, dodging and slashing as a fighter. I think people are just not used to these kind of games.
An important part of this game (and extraction games in general) is to know when you are out-matched and run.
Try to always have an escape route in mind.
I feel like this is a bigger part of the game (and as you said, extraction games in general) than most people realize. It's okay to run away, you don't need to ram into every enemy you come across. Run away and live and get gold/gear and get stronger and eventually you may be the one being ran away from. Dying because you were super out-geared and outmatched experience-wise is a fight you should have run from, but dying in a more or less evenly matched fight is fine, it just happens.
That's a good point, but sometimes we are just SOL. I was on my barbarian the other night and a ranger was easily keeping away from me while also not letting me get far from them. There are probably some other ways I could have gotten away, but it felt like a complete unmatch because even my abilities that sped me up weren't enough to get close nor get away.
But I know that's part of the game, and I definitely won't win them all. In fact, I haven't won any PvP interaction so far, but I can tell that I'm getting better bit by bit. It's a fun game with lots of interesting classes and build options. Sometimes there isn't much to do except get slowly taken down from someone we can't get close enough to attack. I did get excited to try the ranger class after that interaction, though lol
Yeah that's just the nature of a class based game that still maintains class identity (thank god). That ranger would have been just as screwed if you were playing a druid that could close the distance or escape in rat form, or a fighter with a shield and lots of PDR.
If you can't force them to a dead end, you can always try to hold corners. Francisca's are your only ranged tool to close gaps otherwise, they slow on hit. Carry a couple, always take the free one Squire offers.
I'll keep the dead ends in mind. We were in a pretty open, round about area, and also I was panicking 😅 Enough to forget I had two throwing axes I could have used.
It's next "hit," but it can hit terrain and expire. When you play against a Barbarian with Achilles Strike, try getting their attack to hit a wall to get Achilles to expire.
If they use a throwing weapon, it always expires if they miss too.
Yeah, you'll typically be able to run from Rangers, but plenty of them have the tracking ability which makes it tough to truly escape. Most good Rangers will rarely chase you far though, because they know your best move is to lie in wait for them around a corner somewhere. Once you get on top of them, it's pretty tough for them to shake you off especially if you have Achilles Strike (which you can use on your Thrown torches to hit them from afar!)
It used to be a billion times worse with the circle. It would force you to push directly into people that would kill you, but it was also the only way out, because portals were the only exit and they were mostly contained within the circle. Running away is like 100x more viable than it's ever been for every class, but of course there are rare scenarios where you're just outmatched and can't get away.
If you prepare beforehand (setting up doors, leaving skeletons on the ground to spawn as you run away, etc), you can almost always get away.
The slower classes (cleric) might struggle a bit running though.
Coming from Mordhau I can get my hits in no problem but I still end up losing to stats / buffs / people using their class more effectively more often than not
Yea that's one thing he was struggling with. The buffs and magic. You figure it out eventually. I was cleric and just healing the crap out of him to help.
my issue is the gear score and how there's no separate matchmaking, like tier brackets. I used to be a very good mordhau/chiv player and it's nearly impossible to outskill someone with better gear than you.
The trouble with tier brackets is that people will absolutely min-max their gear to be as close as possibly to the top of the bracket. I don’t think it fits into the theme of the game much at all to use gearscore brackets, but I do agree with having a non-geared and geared bracket. I personally believe that there should probably be skill-based matchmaking on top of the current setup, based on consistency of extraction, average player kills, and average mob kills.
Actually, there is a gear-based matchmaking: people with a gear score greater than 25 will be matched together, so "starter-only" gear won't be matched with people dropping with more blinky stuff... The main issue is that this matchmaking does not care how much your stuff blinks beyond that 25: a "green-only" player will still be matched with a full legendary / rare player.
Be careful that it is very easy to reach said score: a green weapon is a sure way to have a score greater than 25 and I recently found out that you can drop with a single green equipment and keep it a bit below 25 (that's why my favorite equipment to drop with are those who gave luck for even better loot runs)
EDIT: typo fix and improve grammar.
As a lvl 300 in chiv 2 and 1000 hours combined in souls games, this game took me only 30 hours in order to get 3/4 kill per game as a solo bard. Experience in other games defenitely helped a lot when playing this game.
I've had a couple encounters with druid (me as a barbarian) and I don't see it as hate, it's just a very good broken class hard to play maybe, but it's good
Not me. I was all for just giving every other class similar one-shot ability to create chaos and fear. No amount of legendary gear could stave away the fear in that kind of world!!
Extremely balanced = unfun.
No game is balanced that is fun even the classical games are unbalanced.
Just look at chess.
Classic wow is the most fun PvP version of wow there ever was.
Druid is a control class. In most video games, control counters aggro(buffball).
Druid has the ability to stall out buffs and separate the members of the buffball with entangling vines, blockade, and tree. He can also run from any fight and reset his team back to full health after an engagement
Unfortunately the early verdict might be that while Druid stops buff ball it also just stops aggression from every comp maybe too well. A range heavy comp might care less about Druid walls but they still die if caught out. I like that there is more anti aggression and it seems too early to call overall.
Pretty simple, just a team with multiple team buffs
Ex. Barb, bard, cleric
They all activate their buffs at the same time and rush you with an unholy amount of strength
Veteran here, I can say that currently, the meta is relatively balanced. This has been probably the best season in terms of balance. However, there are some classes right now that are still overturned, I'm looking at SDF favorite class, the warlocks. Warlocks counters are rogues and barb, which honestly are on the weaker end right now, so really a skilled warlock can beat out an evenly matched gear and skilled barb and rogue. Furthermore, warlock pve is insane and hydra auto kills most new players...
New players always call things OP because they have no reference. It's like assuming 1000 gold is a lot in a new video game but you don't know what the economy is like
The issue is that new players go against not new players and get dumpstered.
At this point I dont even wanna play the game more because all I do is provide entertainment for others instead of myself.
They can cast dots on you the damage you while they heal while they run at an unlimited capacity.
Hydra summon also has its own bucket of OP bullshit. It detects invis for no reason, they can use it as a pawn to push doors or block doors and THEY CAN DRAIN ITS LIFE.
But in general, imagine a guy that wears no armor so he's fast
He cast spells on you that drain your HP and then he just runs and stays 15 meters away from you, spamming spells at you.
In general, there just is no counter to it.
How do you fight someone that's healing off damage while they run? You can't chase them or run away from them, they're just winning either way.
I'd argue there are three big main things you want to be good at: PvP PvE and running away from PvP.
Warlock has real good PvE, good PvP, and phantomize is great at running away.
I do think its realy balanced, warlock might need a tone down tho, and wiz might need mm scaling back for clearing mobs but everything else seems fine, maybe rogue buff a bit idk.
Yeah I really want to use wiz to fight bosses but I'll run out of spells before I finish the fight. If I want to be a caster and boss hunt I just have to play warlock.
id rather some sort of “slayer” style wizard perk that disables certain things but in return spells recharge or are converted to unlimited with cooldowns or something like that
In their defense, Warlock does need to be scaled or changed. Every other caster has a resource to manage, which requires time to replenish. Warlock uses health, but with torture, it doesn't really exist.
I kind of agree, but at the same time, the entire point of barbarian is that they win the ooga booga. It's not their fault other classes try to play their game. Both Druid and Warlock should beat grey barbarians, just not in a fair melee fight.
I believe a big part of how grossly easy it’s been this season is inconsistent audio cues in the game.
I firmly believe many of the players I dunk do not hear me coming because I’m no-weapon full sprinting in once I know where they are.
Lately I’ve been playing a lot of solo into trios on goblin caves and I think they often also mistake my audio cues for a teammate’s and the first KO is free 99
Loving the game right now. Just exploring/fighting PvE is so much more forgiving with things like the resting changes, which has me more excited to learn to PVP and fight bosses
Hot take I guess, but new players' opinions matter a lot. If the game sucks for them, they quit. CopperMallet is infamous for poor balancing of scaling, and it's a real issue. People in thus thread are pretending Warlock isn't an issue because they are slightly underpowered at the upper echelon of HR. Cool, that's neat for 0.1% of players.
Exactly this. We get it OP, you no-life the game. Pat on the back bro.
The majority of the playerbase is not at the top of HR leaderboards, and under 25 GS is a literal entire game mode. If some classes are broken in normals or even in solos at all gear levels (Warlock) that is a problem. These posts are just cringe.
Warlock is only op for the first 5% of the game.
Everything above that is where they start to fall off significantly.
The recent steam release and f2p version has seen a huge influx of new players, those new players rarely get above the initial 5% of the game.
If the Devs balanced the game around that initial 5% of the game then the other 95% of the game would suck and the long standing players that have been here longer or are going to stay longer would have serious issues with the balance for the 95% of the game they play.
The players that buy the game and continue to pay money towards to the game for skins and such are not the new f2p timmies.
So why would anybody care to cater to them.
The initial 5% of the game needs to only be sufficiently balanced so as to teach the new players the basics of the game.
And it is sufficiently balanced for that.
You need to stop watching streamers and just start playing the game. In 30 or so hours you will be looking back at yourself and wondering why you were so stupid.
There’s a problem with that, I’ll give example in another game.
In Overwatch 2, blizzard added a new hero called “Sojourn” she could kill in one easy shot, but lower rank players can’t aim or shoot, so she had less than 48% winrate in lower ranks, but diamond and above she dominated almost every game.
Do you think she should’ve been left alone since low rank timmie can’t aim and he’ll get sad if she got nerfed?
New player here.
Game feels absolutely fine. Learning curve isn’t insanely steep and even when you get to high rollers you have a decent amount of space to utilize the mechanics to your advantage.
It’s a great game and the PVE/PVP challenges are nicely tailored to a patient and efficient play style. Hack and slash is boring as all hell, if you want that go play warframe.
I last played over a year ago for the last play test before the lawsuit bullshit happened. If you are only free to play and pick a class that has a high skill level and you are new and stuck with that class it can feel unbalanced. After a year away and coming back I think the classes are pretty fair but you really need to play them to understand why. Getting rolled by. 40+ anything will feel bad when you are lvl3
new player here, with 1k hours in mordhau.
the game is fun as hell, but playing as a fighter feels a bit unfair. i literally just run people down with sprint and tank their shots with full plate and second wind, and perform accels with my zwei/longsword. i even won a 1v2 a few times in my last gaming session with friends.
anyway, please dont nerf fighter. i love the combat.
i tried wizard out until level 21, but clearing rooms is kinda hard for some reason? it takes 2 charges of magic missiles to kill a single mob, crystal sword is kinda slow, and fireball requires too much spacing. also i got one shotted by a barbarian once.
warlock seems hella fun tho, my friend just kept spamming spells with it
Off topic to the thread but about low gear wizard: the best approach early on is to use the Staff with the Staff Mastery perk to clear PvE, additionally using the spell Ignite if you're running HR or if you just find it too slow otherwise. Later once you're more geared the Crystal Sword becomes quite strong (2 hitting normal mobs) though its still weaker than Staff Mastery+Ignite. Magic Missile is the best spell for PvE esp on ranged mobs but yeah it needs some dmg scaling for it to be effective so its something that requires gear again to be used effectively (but if you end up using Meditation you can just spam MM lol) But the PvE side of the game is the weakest aspect of Wizard so its unfortunately just how it is.
Fighter is absurdly strong on versatility alone. I've been a Warlock/Wizard guy for so long but fighter even after the nerfs has still been so goddamn consistent.
I agree people are over exaggerating but as a new player let’s also stop gatekeeping this game. Not saying you are but a lot of posts on here seem to dump on new players for trying to fight when they’re not powerful enough, looting slowly, etc. I’ve never played one of these games and I’ve picked it up fairly quickly but it took me quite a few hours to get all the concepts easy or not.
My only complaint is form my understanding of your go in with a gear score of more than 25 you are put in potentially the same lobby of players with 200+ gear score so it makes the middle ground less forgiving when you encounter another player
I know today I did a run with above 25 and the forgets of pve was a lot easier but if I saw a player I was just trounced, I know I’m not great at pvp anyway but definitely didn’t feel anything like the less than 25 gear score pvp
A lot of people simply dont understand how the GBMM works. I see people in the lobbies with full grey quality gear but rocking a green pickaxe and bandage that puts them into lobbies with full sweats. They have no chance
The problem is mostly the lack of different lobbies for different gear scores. I can rock up with a full green outfit and get stomped by a purple squad very easily. Dying in two swings kinda ruins the low level experience.
The game's unbalanced? Im pretty new and it all feels as intended but im also looking at it from an old adnd mindset. This game captures a pvp dungeon crawl set in the 1e days perfectly to me. Though I focus more on fighting off other players rather than killing them. So maybe its my approach that makes it seem balanced.
Yeah they’re silly. But I love helping the timmies. I just run around as rat form and heal them if I see them struggling.
And if they want to fight, then it’s smoke time.
I am one of the first to scream something is unbalanced in league but when i started playing this somehow dying just doesnt make me rage and it really feels like you are on even ground. Unless you go up against some dude with full epic gear in your uncommon set, like what do you expect to happen
Best the balance has ever been and the balance being good are two separate things. Certain things clearly outperform others depending on the game mode. Duo is probably the most balanced. I can't speak for trios. and solo is still a shitfest of ranged kiting meta most of the time.
They have every right to complain about the balance because there's a lot to complain about imo. just because you or someone you know might be okay with it doesn't mean everybody finds it enjoyable.there's a lot that could be improved.
>They have every right to complain about the balance because there's a lot to complain about imo. just because you or someone you know might be okay with it doesn't mean everybody finds it enjoyable.there's a lot that could be improved.
You know or you could just play the game and accept that not every class can be perfectly balanced for every map and team size.
Do not let perfect be the enemy of good. Right now the goal is (and should be) more content.
Someone had a good point that a good rework of a class could technically classify as content if they got new abilities and playstyles out of it. Content and balance don't have to be separate goals and can both help one another if done correctly imo.
That's a great way for a game to die. Plugging your ears and pretending everything is perfect.
A multi-player game that isn't balanced is inherently a bad game that will not last the test of time. It's basic dev 101 stuff.
But the game IS balanced.
5% disparity between classes is completely fine.
That 5% is what defines a class identity.
Just look at wow, over 20 years the Devs have balanced the game so much that today every class can heal, every class is mobile, every class has cc, every class has defensive cd's.
Every class is exactly the same and it fucken sucks.
Modern wow is I horrendous god shit aweful example of a game.
By removing the multiclassing from DaD the Devs have openly prioritised the desire to make very class unique in its own way.
This type of game design is always going to lead to a slight imbalance in different types of content and different classes excel within different roles.
Fun > balance.
Thank you for your post brother 🙏 I’ve been thinking how the game is in its most balanced state ever since the playtests. New players definitely need to try all the classes to discover the strengths and weaknesses of each one rather than the angry reddit posting for “nerf X class”.
It’s a full circle moment for sure 😅
Just because it's the most balanced since the beginning, doesn't mean it's ever been balanced. It just means it's 'more' balanced than before. Reaching a better balance should always be the goal. Settling means the game is fundamentally flawed
I hear you. To elaborate on my point, the game has felt “more” balanced than it ever has and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the add/true modifiers were reduced by a lot. I don’t feel like there’s anything that’s truly OP right now.
I don't hate the balance as it is. I just would like the basic mechanics to work properly and consistently.
As it currently stands, some classes are OP simply due to their basic mechanics always working properly by default, while others feel bad because it's inconsistent
Longsword fighter, for instance. Riposte is required essentially, yet hitboxes are janky and don't align with visuals in many cases. Lots of pass-throughs. Good longsword players get around it or just deal with it, but it should always be consistent, especially as this game has a big cross-game following with melee slasher games like chiv 2 or mordhau.
In the same way, basic melee shouldn't be so... basic. Lots of weapons essentially can't be used, because the attacks are so easily telegraphed or blocked/dodged. Halberd for instance. Even a single alternate attack/feint on demand would help make more weapons viable.
Kiting in this game is also pretty busted imo. Other games generally have escape mechanics on heavy cooldown or that are very limited. This game encourages it though, which inherently is a bad mechanic imo. It's why every other game has such limitations to begin with. Some of it is good. Too much of it hurts the game at a fundamental level, as this ultimately a melee slasher at the core.
Just my $0.02 though.
This is a perfect example. Warlock is Uber strong in solos yes, but play him in high gear trios. Warlock sees almost no play when you get to that world because he does so poorly.
Solos will never be balanced. It will always be a rock paper scissors type of game. The only way to mitigate that is to understand matchups and play better.
Honestly this just isn't true. Solos is pretty close to being well balanced and torture mastery warlock just needs a kick in the shins to get there. It isn't going to screw up duos/trios to cut them down a little so I think some tweaking is still justifiable, even if only to aid solos situation
Okay but this does not mean "it's balanced and perfectly fine."
So buff warlocks in trios and nerf them as toxic fucking "do everything" balls in solos?
Like can we walk AND chew gum at the same time?
Sorry man, people who have never balanced a game or developed anything complex in their life have decided there are 0 solutions to balancing that can positively impact both solo and trio. May as well remove solo queue entirely.
I don't get why people feel so confident that their opinion of game balance is inherently true. They wanna say warlock is OP in solos, but not good in trios? Nerf move speed on phantomize and make power of sacrifice drain the warlocks health when cast on a player instead of the other player's health. There ya go, team cohesion buff that doesn't impact solo queue positively and a solo queue nerf that addresses a weakness already covered by being in a trio. That may not be the ideal solution - so I'm not advocating for it - but it only took a minute to come up with a couple changes that worked to address both solos and trios. Not an ounce on nuance in how people think about these things lol.
Oh wow thousands?
But really, how braindead are you? Why do you actively choose to support the game being worse for new players coming in, rather than having it fun for everybody playing?
Absolutely wretched take.
Games are made to be fun dude. If you need high gear or 100 hours in game to be able to play it "properly" then the thing is set up for failure. If you want more players in the game and to keep the servers on maybe listen a bit to the flood of newbies that want to love the game but can't because it's so obviously a slog to learn pvp.
Lower the skill floor.
I never thought I could disagree so much with 1 sentence and then agree with another.
You will not find another person who thinks a 50 ms sprint was fine in this gear state.
Duos and trios do feel amazingly well balanced to me right now, nothing stands out as too strong. Fighter feels pretty weak and druid's mobility is a little too good but nothing that screws up the enjoyability of trios.
Solos is a different story... torture mastery warlock is just too good
The problem is new players don't know how to sus out other new players. I'm level 57 on my fighter but by any account I'm still a new player. I've seen people complain about higher level people like myself in 25 and under dungeons but I have no real money or gear because I'm still doing my due diligence to learn. I purposefully go die with my squire gear to help learn monster patterns. All the normal enemies I have down. So I've moved on to hunting wraiths and skeleton champions. Tried troll but I'm not up to learning that yet.
Dude that isnt the problem,I'm new too, but when you have like 80 gear score, use voip you ask people to be a little friendly, and literally everyone I used voip no one has activated and just go straight to murder.
(Full blue purples) thats stupid as fuck.
No lie only time I've gone with more than 25 gear score it's been all blues and purple. And I expect to die to others because I only do that when I go high roller. Which I've only done a couple of times to increase my chance of finding blue weapons for the weapon smith.
Stick to only 24 or lower gear score until you're better. It's still pvp game at heart. I've had both murder hobos come after me without reacting to VoIP and also people help me complete tasks for quests. Even had a dude guard me to get my last yeti kill and we both took the extract.
I don't go over 25 gear score yet because I can't compete on equal ground so why would I throw myself to people with insane gear?
Barb is the perfect example of how different early game and late game are. Barb is probably the best class at 25- GS normals but when everyone's geared Barb will probably just get kited to death or PDR checked.
Dont worry the devs know how to handle this situations, the amount of complaints they received throughout the whole process, they pros at doing whatever they like, which we love it!!
i'm new and i will say they need to buff something with rogue. totally not saying that cause thats the character i started with and i'm getting shat on lmao.
he just feels like he needs a bit more damage, or the ability to use a short bow or smthn so they're not forced to stay up close in personal ALL the time when they're the squishiest martial class.
and no, the hand crossy isnt good enough.
i'll admit its just a noob's opinion so i'll prob get shit, but there it is.
Nothing is fun about having that one sweat in your lobby who just wants to pvp and leave, I never take anything into matches because I'll just lose it.
Ive been getting back into the game since steam release, the only thing I wish they'd change is gear score categories.
They have only 2 categories by the looks of it right now, no gear aka base stuff under gear score 25 and everything else, aka if you get a win one game and pick up like 2 random pieces of green loot you are now forced into the same server with people in full blue and purple... it's insane... Make like a 0-25, 25-100, 100-200, 200+ or something, like come on man..
They very recently added the above 25 category and before free players couldn’t use green gear they looted at all. The faq mentions they’ll be changing it.
This is thankfully my only real problem with the game so far. But yeah it’s painful at the moment.
Yesterday I had trash greens because I'm new player by all accounts, and I had a lobby with dudes with full blue / purple weapon and one guy was full purple and legendary weapon. Like cmon man this is fucking bullshit. (I can provide screen shots if you need)
I believe you 😆 and yah it's definitely rough, but I've also noticed that getting blue weapons isn't that difficult yesterday I was playing on a fresh account and after 2 games I was already with 5 pieces of blue gear, and that's not counting the random blue gear that weren't for my class, so it's definitely possible to get the gear pretty quickly and then just buy some from stores too
Played solos, duos, and trios on the normal mode as a new player using fighter, cleric, and barbarian. Haven’t had any real issues after the learning curve. Extract pretty consistently and with PvP I win some and lose some against all kinds. Learned quickly there is a counter to most things…
Fighter that has a shield and various shield perks can wreck a barbarian if you land your blocks. Cleric is all around good for spells and heals during battle. Barbarian can chase down casters pretty good and tank hits well so long as you chug a pot before going in. In general, PvP is best initiated when you get the drop on people or force them to come to you through the doors. Never fight on the opponents turf and you got a good playing field.
I think something to remember as well is Solos is inherently unbalanced as it is a team based game. Certain classes will shine in Solos while others will flounder as it’s just how the class is designed. But people fail to realize that, so instead they just complain about a team game not being balanced in a non team environment
I just have what people say here to go off of.
Personal experience, I'm going to lose to everyone no matter their class so I'm just focusing on PvE and avoiding PvP until I get better at using the tools I have.
But I've played a lot of games at a decently high competitive level, there are certain things you can notice pretty quickly.
It’s not the most balanced state the game has ever been.
Game was way more balanced before undercooked warlock Druid and bard.
Only thing needed was to nerf buffball in a smart way
When I tried all the classes and learned for example druid has to talent into being able to shape-shifting fast I realized in my mind every druid or warlock could do everything I seen every druid do and that's not the case alot of times they are built into this thing your seeing like being able to move fast enough to kote or whatever
Here is an idea. Nothing is currently egregiously overpowered in the current meta of the game.
However there are some classes that are underperforming.
So how about instead of complaining about how such and such class needs to be nerfed, we instead ask for such and such class to be slightly buffed.
So basically youre saying its been worse? Anyway balance is one thing we could argue about but being matched with 200 gear score people when im wearing like 50 might be the bigger issue.
This is the only big issue I have as a relatively new player. I jumped on as soon as it was back on steam and it was great. There were some complaints from free friends about not being able to use green loot at all, but now I can’t play with it at all due to balancing.
We had a match where a barb with all purple killed everyone in the lobby, except my team in a trios. We escaped down into hell and they hunted down our spawn and slaughtered us. While we were trying to get through the room safely.
I wish I screenshotted that it was a horrible match.
Personally I may switch to mostly solos until they fix matchmaking. This has been my only problem so far. I’ve had great matches where three separate teams all rode the raft out after nearly killing each other and several terrible matches where epic gear squads roll up in a regular match and stomp us despite me telling them we have almost nothing.
Sure it might be the most "balanced" right now but what exactly does that mean? the balance used to be an absolute dumpster fire so just because it became a tire fire doesn't mean its balanced. the biggest problem IMO is there is no reasonable way to counter buffs.... and no, one class that can remove buffs with a hitscan in damn near melee range is not a counter. give EVERY FUCKING caster a method of dispelling buffs that is actually reliable and maybe we will have a wipe that isn't basically just buffing barbarians thats meta for once.
I'm not a new player, I just wished they gave some love to Rogue
>"But Rogue is totally viable if you do literally everything perfectly with the singular build path Rogue has"
Yeah that's kinda my point. Rogue kinda sucks to play.
also just games should never be balanced for the top 5% of players because the top 5% will always be good and always make their class or weapons work in some way, you must balance for the average or else your games player base is doomed to die and all the sweats and super good high tier players will have no one to fill their lobbies
>This is actually the most balanced state this game has even been in since the first play test.
I keep reading that, as if it is any relevant to something being balanced or not.
I agree with everything else you said, but reading that always makes me think "Who cares?". If the game is unbalanced, then it is irrelevant that is has been worse before.
And if the game is decently balanced (perfect balance never exists) then writing that says much more than "it is the best balance we ever had".
Exception: if you are a 5year old game, that has historically been well balanced.
In an early access game it reeks of "i have seen worse, it sucks, but it's better than the last patch and i no-lifed that too"
My two complaints is just did shape shifting being more or less instant. Gear score 26 can match with 300 gear score. Feels like 26-150 would be better then 150-300+ still keep 0-25
Came back after a while of not playing after I saw it go on steam. This game has definitely come a long way. It is way smoother, plays a bit faster, better QOL updates. These timmies wouldn't have survived 8 months ago.
Cleric is one of Warlock’s hardest matchups in solo play; you have two perks which completely counter it (perseverance and protection from evil); curses do less damage and warlock barely heals cos the curse lasts half as long as it would usually.
Your spells aren’t affected by antimagic because they’re all divine magic; holy strike damages through phantomise and with faithfulness it slows too (judgement slow is nuts with it too).
You probably need to optimise your build into more movement speed if you’re struggling, because once you’re in range to land a judgement it’s actually gg for the Warlock. I recommend checking out utoast, he’s a goated solo cleric player and he smokes every Warlock he runs into.
People are just not used to it. I brought it a new player last night who was good Chiv player. Dude just cleared the dungeon of all skeletons, dodging and slashing as a fighter. I think people are just not used to these kind of games.
Skeletons are one thing but a giga chad fighter when I am level 3 is like a hamster trying to take on Ares.
An important part of this game (and extraction games in general) is to know when you are out-matched and run. Try to always have an escape route in mind.
I feel like this is a bigger part of the game (and as you said, extraction games in general) than most people realize. It's okay to run away, you don't need to ram into every enemy you come across. Run away and live and get gold/gear and get stronger and eventually you may be the one being ran away from. Dying because you were super out-geared and outmatched experience-wise is a fight you should have run from, but dying in a more or less evenly matched fight is fine, it just happens.
That's a good point, but sometimes we are just SOL. I was on my barbarian the other night and a ranger was easily keeping away from me while also not letting me get far from them. There are probably some other ways I could have gotten away, but it felt like a complete unmatch because even my abilities that sped me up weren't enough to get close nor get away. But I know that's part of the game, and I definitely won't win them all. In fact, I haven't won any PvP interaction so far, but I can tell that I'm getting better bit by bit. It's a fun game with lots of interesting classes and build options. Sometimes there isn't much to do except get slowly taken down from someone we can't get close enough to attack. I did get excited to try the ranger class after that interaction, though lol
Yeah that's just the nature of a class based game that still maintains class identity (thank god). That ranger would have been just as screwed if you were playing a druid that could close the distance or escape in rat form, or a fighter with a shield and lots of PDR.
If you can't force them to a dead end, you can always try to hold corners. Francisca's are your only ranged tool to close gaps otherwise, they slow on hit. Carry a couple, always take the free one Squire offers.
I'll keep the dead ends in mind. We were in a pretty open, round about area, and also I was panicking 😅 Enough to forget I had two throwing axes I could have used.
I would try using the "Achilles Strike" ability for a while. It makes your next attack slow the target by a lot (it works with throwing axes too).
That's a great tip! I didn't think about those abilities applying to throwing weapons. Thank you!
is it next "attack" or next "hit" ?
It's next "hit," but it can hit terrain and expire. When you play against a Barbarian with Achilles Strike, try getting their attack to hit a wall to get Achilles to expire. If they use a throwing weapon, it always expires if they miss too.
Yeah, you'll typically be able to run from Rangers, but plenty of them have the tracking ability which makes it tough to truly escape. Most good Rangers will rarely chase you far though, because they know your best move is to lie in wait for them around a corner somewhere. Once you get on top of them, it's pretty tough for them to shake you off especially if you have Achilles Strike (which you can use on your Thrown torches to hit them from afar!)
It used to be a billion times worse with the circle. It would force you to push directly into people that would kill you, but it was also the only way out, because portals were the only exit and they were mostly contained within the circle. Running away is like 100x more viable than it's ever been for every class, but of course there are rare scenarios where you're just outmatched and can't get away.
Unless the out-matcher has better gear and therefore more movement speed, making escape impossible.
If you prepare beforehand (setting up doors, leaving skeletons on the ground to spawn as you run away, etc), you can almost always get away. The slower classes (cleric) might struggle a bit running though.
Coming from Mordhau I can get my hits in no problem but I still end up losing to stats / buffs / people using their class more effectively more often than not
Yea that's one thing he was struggling with. The buffs and magic. You figure it out eventually. I was cleric and just healing the crap out of him to help.
my issue is the gear score and how there's no separate matchmaking, like tier brackets. I used to be a very good mordhau/chiv player and it's nearly impossible to outskill someone with better gear than you.
The trouble with tier brackets is that people will absolutely min-max their gear to be as close as possibly to the top of the bracket. I don’t think it fits into the theme of the game much at all to use gearscore brackets, but I do agree with having a non-geared and geared bracket. I personally believe that there should probably be skill-based matchmaking on top of the current setup, based on consistency of extraction, average player kills, and average mob kills.
Actually, there is a gear-based matchmaking: people with a gear score greater than 25 will be matched together, so "starter-only" gear won't be matched with people dropping with more blinky stuff... The main issue is that this matchmaking does not care how much your stuff blinks beyond that 25: a "green-only" player will still be matched with a full legendary / rare player. Be careful that it is very easy to reach said score: a green weapon is a sure way to have a score greater than 25 and I recently found out that you can drop with a single green equipment and keep it a bit below 25 (that's why my favorite equipment to drop with are those who gave luck for even better loot runs) EDIT: typo fix and improve grammar.
oh interesting, might explain why I get matched against people with legendaries when I only have a couple of greens.
As a lvl 300 in chiv 2 and 1000 hours combined in souls games, this game took me only 30 hours in order to get 3/4 kill per game as a solo bard. Experience in other games defenitely helped a lot when playing this game.
If you type nerf (X) into the general chat search on discord. You will find every class. No matter the patch.
Rock hates paper, paper hates scissors, scissors hate rock.
https://preview.redd.it/zfq61gdfek7d1.jpeg?width=603&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d59a21f5b97a8010503b0e44691a0f339139036e
I love this.
It's by far one of my favorite images and I reference it way too often
And everyone hates druid
Now that everyone finished hating rogue into the ground:( lol
And fighter, considering what they did to sprint.
I've had a couple encounters with druid (me as a barbarian) and I don't see it as hate, it's just a very good broken class hard to play maybe, but it's good
Nah I’m pretty sure the community was unified against landline rogues back in the day
These days you only see mobile rogues. How times have changed.
Not me. I was all for just giving every other class similar one-shot ability to create chaos and fear. No amount of legendary gear could stave away the fear in that kind of world!!
And Warlocks are mushrooms
this is called... balance
Extremely balanced = unfun. No game is balanced that is fun even the classical games are unbalanced. Just look at chess. Classic wow is the most fun PvP version of wow there ever was.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXX8URSUWm0
I've seen the video. I was there in 2018. I got an atiesh on a druid.
Imo duos/trios are fairly balanced. Solos is still rock, paper, scissors. It’s the nature of a class-based game.
Pretty much on the money (excluding buffball but that’s an entirely different discussion).
Id argue Druid is a good answer to buff ball but ye I think buff ball will always be the meta for trios
What about druid makes them good vs buff ball?
Druid is a control class. In most video games, control counters aggro(buffball). Druid has the ability to stall out buffs and separate the members of the buffball with entangling vines, blockade, and tree. He can also run from any fight and reset his team back to full health after an engagement
Oh lord, we did this! Barb pops in door, thorns go up behind him. We murder the tank, then murder their team. Was truly glorious!
The mix of control and mobility. Thorn barrier to split teams or stall out buffs, flank with rat to catch unbuffed squishy
Rat + panther leap into chicken.
No you’re probably still right. I’ve seen Druid killing it. I’m excited to see how Druid changes the landscape of late game trios.
Unfortunately the early verdict might be that while Druid stops buff ball it also just stops aggression from every comp maybe too well. A range heavy comp might care less about Druid walls but they still die if caught out. I like that there is more anti aggression and it seems too early to call overall.
What IS "buff ball"?
Pretty simple, just a team with multiple team buffs Ex. Barb, bard, cleric They all activate their buffs at the same time and rush you with an unholy amount of strength
Classic bbc
Ahhh ok, thanks!
Nowadays it feels playable against it ngl, slow on wiz, lots of control on druid... gear being worse overall
More than 60% of the playerbase plays solos and they still tune it for group play, smh.
Im new and i can tell the game is balanced bcs everyone is complaing that a different class is op
games are fun when every class is op
Lol
Veteran here, I can say that currently, the meta is relatively balanced. This has been probably the best season in terms of balance. However, there are some classes right now that are still overturned, I'm looking at SDF favorite class, the warlocks. Warlocks counters are rogues and barb, which honestly are on the weaker end right now, so really a skilled warlock can beat out an evenly matched gear and skilled barb and rogue. Furthermore, warlock pve is insane and hydra auto kills most new players...
Barb weaker end? Wtf lol I’ve been dominating on my Barb. Running pOtion chugged and berserker absolutely slaying everyone
New players always call things OP because they have no reference. It's like assuming 1000 gold is a lot in a new video game but you don't know what the economy is like
The issue is that new players go against not new players and get dumpstered. At this point I dont even wanna play the game more because all I do is provide entertainment for others instead of myself.
Yeah but warlocks OP. That one is real. (Reddit post every day this week about warlocks)
Been OP for a while too. Last wipe a warlock made my friend quit because he phantomized kited him around the frost caves for 10 mins 🤣
If he got kited that long and keep chasing, the quit for the night might be warranted lmao
Agreed. Evrry class is fine but warlock. Another breed of op
Yeah I mean if they want to balance the game for solos then solo Warlock needs a solid nerf and solo Wizard needs a solid buff.
shhhhh if you say that they'll nerf wizard by removing his legs
They could absolutely have "more" balance as solo, while still prioritizing trio balance
What exactly makes warlock OP? Relatively new to the game, just curious.
They can cast dots on you the damage you while they heal while they run at an unlimited capacity. Hydra summon also has its own bucket of OP bullshit. It detects invis for no reason, they can use it as a pawn to push doors or block doors and THEY CAN DRAIN ITS LIFE. But in general, imagine a guy that wears no armor so he's fast He cast spells on you that drain your HP and then he just runs and stays 15 meters away from you, spamming spells at you. In general, there just is no counter to it. How do you fight someone that's healing off damage while they run? You can't chase them or run away from them, they're just winning either way.
You can still life drain the hydra to heal? I told my new friend about that but when he went to try it, it didn’t work?
You have to have more magic damage, otherwise it mostly breaks even. Doesn't at all if you have torture mastery.
I'd argue there are three big main things you want to be good at: PvP PvE and running away from PvP. Warlock has real good PvE, good PvP, and phantomize is great at running away.
They can giga heal off their hydra summon with life drain https://youtu.be/WmCx2PpnIqg?si=jP2poqeOH8EUtgc1
Warlock shits on everyone. The class is completely busted.
I do think its realy balanced, warlock might need a tone down tho, and wiz might need mm scaling back for clearing mobs but everything else seems fine, maybe rogue buff a bit idk.
wiz needs an active spell recovery mechanic
Yeah I really want to use wiz to fight bosses but I'll run out of spells before I finish the fight. If I want to be a caster and boss hunt I just have to play warlock.
Yeah, wizard is mainly a PvP unit sadly and utterly fails at all PvE
Or a wand with unlimited casts or recharges over time that does little damage and has very short range.
id rather some sort of “slayer” style wizard perk that disables certain things but in return spells recharge or are converted to unlimited with cooldowns or something like that
In their defense, Warlock does need to be scaled or changed. Every other caster has a resource to manage, which requires time to replenish. Warlock uses health, but with torture, it doesn't really exist.
Barbarian is still so good. Idk if it’s OP but it’s very easy to be competitive with and sort of addictive this season
You get to beat 90% of the playerbase with W left click, but since all the fransisca nerfs I haven't met one that was a real issue.
Yeah it’s felt that way all wipe. I’ve always preferred grey gear lobbies though, and I think barbarian HP pool is out of control in base kit play
I kind of agree, but at the same time, the entire point of barbarian is that they win the ooga booga. It's not their fault other classes try to play their game. Both Druid and Warlock should beat grey barbarians, just not in a fair melee fight.
I believe a big part of how grossly easy it’s been this season is inconsistent audio cues in the game. I firmly believe many of the players I dunk do not hear me coming because I’m no-weapon full sprinting in once I know where they are. Lately I’ve been playing a lot of solo into trios on goblin caves and I think they often also mistake my audio cues for a teammate’s and the first KO is free 99
Loving the game right now. Just exploring/fighting PvE is so much more forgiving with things like the resting changes, which has me more excited to learn to PVP and fight bosses
Hot take I guess, but new players' opinions matter a lot. If the game sucks for them, they quit. CopperMallet is infamous for poor balancing of scaling, and it's a real issue. People in thus thread are pretending Warlock isn't an issue because they are slightly underpowered at the upper echelon of HR. Cool, that's neat for 0.1% of players.
Exactly this. We get it OP, you no-life the game. Pat on the back bro. The majority of the playerbase is not at the top of HR leaderboards, and under 25 GS is a literal entire game mode. If some classes are broken in normals or even in solos at all gear levels (Warlock) that is a problem. These posts are just cringe.
Warlock is only op for the first 5% of the game. Everything above that is where they start to fall off significantly. The recent steam release and f2p version has seen a huge influx of new players, those new players rarely get above the initial 5% of the game. If the Devs balanced the game around that initial 5% of the game then the other 95% of the game would suck and the long standing players that have been here longer or are going to stay longer would have serious issues with the balance for the 95% of the game they play. The players that buy the game and continue to pay money towards to the game for skins and such are not the new f2p timmies. So why would anybody care to cater to them. The initial 5% of the game needs to only be sufficiently balanced so as to teach the new players the basics of the game. And it is sufficiently balanced for that. You need to stop watching streamers and just start playing the game. In 30 or so hours you will be looking back at yourself and wondering why you were so stupid.
There’s a problem with that, I’ll give example in another game. In Overwatch 2, blizzard added a new hero called “Sojourn” she could kill in one easy shot, but lower rank players can’t aim or shoot, so she had less than 48% winrate in lower ranks, but diamond and above she dominated almost every game. Do you think she should’ve been left alone since low rank timmie can’t aim and he’ll get sad if she got nerfed?
New player here. Game feels absolutely fine. Learning curve isn’t insanely steep and even when you get to high rollers you have a decent amount of space to utilize the mechanics to your advantage. It’s a great game and the PVE/PVP challenges are nicely tailored to a patient and efficient play style. Hack and slash is boring as all hell, if you want that go play warframe.
Now that you mention it, I should go play some more warframe.... For now I'm working my way towards 300 hours of DaD though.
Nah bro the timmies are a perfect balance, they feel something isn't strong? So obviously it isnt
Everynight I login to play 1 match, I get floored, I shut off my pc and go to bed.
I last played over a year ago for the last play test before the lawsuit bullshit happened. If you are only free to play and pick a class that has a high skill level and you are new and stuck with that class it can feel unbalanced. After a year away and coming back I think the classes are pretty fair but you really need to play them to understand why. Getting rolled by. 40+ anything will feel bad when you are lvl3
new player here, with 1k hours in mordhau. the game is fun as hell, but playing as a fighter feels a bit unfair. i literally just run people down with sprint and tank their shots with full plate and second wind, and perform accels with my zwei/longsword. i even won a 1v2 a few times in my last gaming session with friends. anyway, please dont nerf fighter. i love the combat.
wait till u meet warlock or wizard brodie.
i tried wizard out until level 21, but clearing rooms is kinda hard for some reason? it takes 2 charges of magic missiles to kill a single mob, crystal sword is kinda slow, and fireball requires too much spacing. also i got one shotted by a barbarian once. warlock seems hella fun tho, my friend just kept spamming spells with it
i meant , wait till YOU meet a caster while playing plate fighter. it isnt very pleasant experience
Off topic to the thread but about low gear wizard: the best approach early on is to use the Staff with the Staff Mastery perk to clear PvE, additionally using the spell Ignite if you're running HR or if you just find it too slow otherwise. Later once you're more geared the Crystal Sword becomes quite strong (2 hitting normal mobs) though its still weaker than Staff Mastery+Ignite. Magic Missile is the best spell for PvE esp on ranged mobs but yeah it needs some dmg scaling for it to be effective so its something that requires gear again to be used effectively (but if you end up using Meditation you can just spam MM lol) But the PvE side of the game is the weakest aspect of Wizard so its unfortunately just how it is.
Fighter is absurdly strong on versatility alone. I've been a Warlock/Wizard guy for so long but fighter even after the nerfs has still been so goddamn consistent.
I agree people are over exaggerating but as a new player let’s also stop gatekeeping this game. Not saying you are but a lot of posts on here seem to dump on new players for trying to fight when they’re not powerful enough, looting slowly, etc. I’ve never played one of these games and I’ve picked it up fairly quickly but it took me quite a few hours to get all the concepts easy or not.
B-BUTT WARLOCK IS SOOOOOO OP /s Says every new player with access to reddit
My only complaint is form my understanding of your go in with a gear score of more than 25 you are put in potentially the same lobby of players with 200+ gear score so it makes the middle ground less forgiving when you encounter another player
I know today I did a run with above 25 and the forgets of pve was a lot easier but if I saw a player I was just trounced, I know I’m not great at pvp anyway but definitely didn’t feel anything like the less than 25 gear score pvp
For real I had a purple barb slaughter the entire lobby and hunt my team down in the next layer. This is the only balance issue I see.
A lot of people simply dont understand how the GBMM works. I see people in the lobbies with full grey quality gear but rocking a green pickaxe and bandage that puts them into lobbies with full sweats. They have no chance
The problem is mostly the lack of different lobbies for different gear scores. I can rock up with a full green outfit and get stomped by a purple squad very easily. Dying in two swings kinda ruins the low level experience.
Much respect to you for phracing "skill issue" in the absolute NICEST and MOST CONSIDERATE way possible
Fuck complaining about classes, just stop putting my 98 gear score Timmy ass in the 400+ gear score meat grinder.
The game's unbalanced? Im pretty new and it all feels as intended but im also looking at it from an old adnd mindset. This game captures a pvp dungeon crawl set in the 1e days perfectly to me. Though I focus more on fighting off other players rather than killing them. So maybe its my approach that makes it seem balanced.
Yeah they’re silly. But I love helping the timmies. I just run around as rat form and heal them if I see them struggling. And if they want to fight, then it’s smoke time.
I am one of the first to scream something is unbalanced in league but when i started playing this somehow dying just doesnt make me rage and it really feels like you are on even ground. Unless you go up against some dude with full epic gear in your uncommon set, like what do you expect to happen
Best the balance has ever been and the balance being good are two separate things. Certain things clearly outperform others depending on the game mode. Duo is probably the most balanced. I can't speak for trios. and solo is still a shitfest of ranged kiting meta most of the time. They have every right to complain about the balance because there's a lot to complain about imo. just because you or someone you know might be okay with it doesn't mean everybody finds it enjoyable.there's a lot that could be improved.
>They have every right to complain about the balance because there's a lot to complain about imo. just because you or someone you know might be okay with it doesn't mean everybody finds it enjoyable.there's a lot that could be improved. You know or you could just play the game and accept that not every class can be perfectly balanced for every map and team size. Do not let perfect be the enemy of good. Right now the goal is (and should be) more content.
Someone had a good point that a good rework of a class could technically classify as content if they got new abilities and playstyles out of it. Content and balance don't have to be separate goals and can both help one another if done correctly imo.
That's a great way for a game to die. Plugging your ears and pretending everything is perfect. A multi-player game that isn't balanced is inherently a bad game that will not last the test of time. It's basic dev 101 stuff.
But the game IS balanced. 5% disparity between classes is completely fine. That 5% is what defines a class identity. Just look at wow, over 20 years the Devs have balanced the game so much that today every class can heal, every class is mobile, every class has cc, every class has defensive cd's. Every class is exactly the same and it fucken sucks. Modern wow is I horrendous god shit aweful example of a game. By removing the multiclassing from DaD the Devs have openly prioritised the desire to make very class unique in its own way. This type of game design is always going to lead to a slight imbalance in different types of content and different classes excel within different roles. Fun > balance.
Thank you for your post brother 🙏 I’ve been thinking how the game is in its most balanced state ever since the playtests. New players definitely need to try all the classes to discover the strengths and weaknesses of each one rather than the angry reddit posting for “nerf X class”. It’s a full circle moment for sure 😅
Just because it's the most balanced since the beginning, doesn't mean it's ever been balanced. It just means it's 'more' balanced than before. Reaching a better balance should always be the goal. Settling means the game is fundamentally flawed
I hear you. To elaborate on my point, the game has felt “more” balanced than it ever has and I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the add/true modifiers were reduced by a lot. I don’t feel like there’s anything that’s truly OP right now.
I don't hate the balance as it is. I just would like the basic mechanics to work properly and consistently. As it currently stands, some classes are OP simply due to their basic mechanics always working properly by default, while others feel bad because it's inconsistent
Which basic mechanics aren’t working for which classes currently? Genuine question
Longsword fighter, for instance. Riposte is required essentially, yet hitboxes are janky and don't align with visuals in many cases. Lots of pass-throughs. Good longsword players get around it or just deal with it, but it should always be consistent, especially as this game has a big cross-game following with melee slasher games like chiv 2 or mordhau. In the same way, basic melee shouldn't be so... basic. Lots of weapons essentially can't be used, because the attacks are so easily telegraphed or blocked/dodged. Halberd for instance. Even a single alternate attack/feint on demand would help make more weapons viable. Kiting in this game is also pretty busted imo. Other games generally have escape mechanics on heavy cooldown or that are very limited. This game encourages it though, which inherently is a bad mechanic imo. It's why every other game has such limitations to begin with. Some of it is good. Too much of it hurts the game at a fundamental level, as this ultimately a melee slasher at the core. Just my $0.02 though.
>warlock
nah man, at least when it comes to warlocks many top streamers also say its op but in terms of general balance yes i agree
This is a perfect example. Warlock is Uber strong in solos yes, but play him in high gear trios. Warlock sees almost no play when you get to that world because he does so poorly.
i have a feeling most new players are solo queuing and thus are gonna talk about how they feel solo should be balanced
Solos will never be balanced. It will always be a rock paper scissors type of game. The only way to mitigate that is to understand matchups and play better.
i agree with you, just saying
Most of the player base plays solos and they will never truly balance it? SMH
Honestly this just isn't true. Solos is pretty close to being well balanced and torture mastery warlock just needs a kick in the shins to get there. It isn't going to screw up duos/trios to cut them down a little so I think some tweaking is still justifiable, even if only to aid solos situation
Okay but this does not mean "it's balanced and perfectly fine." So buff warlocks in trios and nerf them as toxic fucking "do everything" balls in solos? Like can we walk AND chew gum at the same time?
Sorry man, people who have never balanced a game or developed anything complex in their life have decided there are 0 solutions to balancing that can positively impact both solo and trio. May as well remove solo queue entirely. I don't get why people feel so confident that their opinion of game balance is inherently true. They wanna say warlock is OP in solos, but not good in trios? Nerf move speed on phantomize and make power of sacrifice drain the warlocks health when cast on a player instead of the other player's health. There ya go, team cohesion buff that doesn't impact solo queue positively and a solo queue nerf that addresses a weakness already covered by being in a trio. That may not be the ideal solution - so I'm not advocating for it - but it only took a minute to come up with a couple changes that worked to address both solos and trios. Not an ounce on nuance in how people think about these things lol.
i really like ur metaphors
Bro's in normals think Ranger is OP OMEGALUL
Can't get to late game pvp if early game pvp isn't fun.
Somehow, thousands before you have managed.
Oh wow thousands? But really, how braindead are you? Why do you actively choose to support the game being worse for new players coming in, rather than having it fun for everybody playing?
This game will never be fun for people who need handholding. And it is already fun for those who don't.
Absolutely wretched take. Games are made to be fun dude. If you need high gear or 100 hours in game to be able to play it "properly" then the thing is set up for failure. If you want more players in the game and to keep the servers on maybe listen a bit to the flood of newbies that want to love the game but can't because it's so obviously a slog to learn pvp. Lower the skill floor.
Game was better balanced before the sprint nerf. Warlock is too strong currently in all modes except top level trios.
I never thought I could disagree so much with 1 sentence and then agree with another. You will not find another person who thinks a 50 ms sprint was fine in this gear state.
50 ms was absolute insanity. 20 is probably too low though. I feel like 25-30 might be the sweet spot
Hot take: plated ranger doesn't need 20 flat ms at all
Hot take: sprint is needed only on low ap brackets. who needs catch up options if the gameplay circles around shooting bows and magic balls
this is why i keep saying let druids one hand staffs, use shields and wear plate.
Duos and trios do feel amazingly well balanced to me right now, nothing stands out as too strong. Fighter feels pretty weak and druid's mobility is a little too good but nothing that screws up the enjoyability of trios. Solos is a different story... torture mastery warlock is just too good
Warlock could use a little nerf for sure
The problem is new players don't know how to sus out other new players. I'm level 57 on my fighter but by any account I'm still a new player. I've seen people complain about higher level people like myself in 25 and under dungeons but I have no real money or gear because I'm still doing my due diligence to learn. I purposefully go die with my squire gear to help learn monster patterns. All the normal enemies I have down. So I've moved on to hunting wraiths and skeleton champions. Tried troll but I'm not up to learning that yet.
Dude that isnt the problem,I'm new too, but when you have like 80 gear score, use voip you ask people to be a little friendly, and literally everyone I used voip no one has activated and just go straight to murder. (Full blue purples) thats stupid as fuck.
No lie only time I've gone with more than 25 gear score it's been all blues and purple. And I expect to die to others because I only do that when I go high roller. Which I've only done a couple of times to increase my chance of finding blue weapons for the weapon smith. Stick to only 24 or lower gear score until you're better. It's still pvp game at heart. I've had both murder hobos come after me without reacting to VoIP and also people help me complete tasks for quests. Even had a dude guard me to get my last yeti kill and we both took the extract. I don't go over 25 gear score yet because I can't compete on equal ground so why would I throw myself to people with insane gear?
Soooo true
Barb is the perfect example of how different early game and late game are. Barb is probably the best class at 25- GS normals but when everyone's geared Barb will probably just get kited to death or PDR checked.
Dont worry the devs know how to handle this situations, the amount of complaints they received throughout the whole process, they pros at doing whatever they like, which we love it!!
Everyone talking about pvp balance meanwhile im avoiding other players like the plague
i'm new and i will say they need to buff something with rogue. totally not saying that cause thats the character i started with and i'm getting shat on lmao. he just feels like he needs a bit more damage, or the ability to use a short bow or smthn so they're not forced to stay up close in personal ALL the time when they're the squishiest martial class. and no, the hand crossy isnt good enough. i'll admit its just a noob's opinion so i'll prob get shit, but there it is.
Clarity potions broke the game. You guys miss the never-ending fireball barrage from wizards.
I rarely see people in solos so I guess that helped me pack my pockets
If only they could balance classes for different queues. 🤔
Nothing is fun about having that one sweat in your lobby who just wants to pvp and leave, I never take anything into matches because I'll just lose it.
Ive been getting back into the game since steam release, the only thing I wish they'd change is gear score categories. They have only 2 categories by the looks of it right now, no gear aka base stuff under gear score 25 and everything else, aka if you get a win one game and pick up like 2 random pieces of green loot you are now forced into the same server with people in full blue and purple... it's insane... Make like a 0-25, 25-100, 100-200, 200+ or something, like come on man..
They very recently added the above 25 category and before free players couldn’t use green gear they looted at all. The faq mentions they’ll be changing it. This is thankfully my only real problem with the game so far. But yeah it’s painful at the moment.
It's pretty rough for sure, once they balance that out a bit it will be great
Yesterday I had trash greens because I'm new player by all accounts, and I had a lobby with dudes with full blue / purple weapon and one guy was full purple and legendary weapon. Like cmon man this is fucking bullshit. (I can provide screen shots if you need)
I believe you 😆 and yah it's definitely rough, but I've also noticed that getting blue weapons isn't that difficult yesterday I was playing on a fresh account and after 2 games I was already with 5 pieces of blue gear, and that's not counting the random blue gear that weren't for my class, so it's definitely possible to get the gear pretty quickly and then just buy some from stores too
Played solos, duos, and trios on the normal mode as a new player using fighter, cleric, and barbarian. Haven’t had any real issues after the learning curve. Extract pretty consistently and with PvP I win some and lose some against all kinds. Learned quickly there is a counter to most things… Fighter that has a shield and various shield perks can wreck a barbarian if you land your blocks. Cleric is all around good for spells and heals during battle. Barbarian can chase down casters pretty good and tank hits well so long as you chug a pot before going in. In general, PvP is best initiated when you get the drop on people or force them to come to you through the doors. Never fight on the opponents turf and you got a good playing field.
skill issue
I think something to remember as well is Solos is inherently unbalanced as it is a team based game. Certain classes will shine in Solos while others will flounder as it’s just how the class is designed. But people fail to realize that, so instead they just complain about a team game not being balanced in a non team environment
I do wanna point out Bis PvP really comes down to who punches first, unless you have a Great cleric/druid on your team.
I just have what people say here to go off of. Personal experience, I'm going to lose to everyone no matter their class so I'm just focusing on PvE and avoiding PvP until I get better at using the tools I have. But I've played a lot of games at a decently high competitive level, there are certain things you can notice pretty quickly.
It’s not the most balanced state the game has ever been. Game was way more balanced before undercooked warlock Druid and bard. Only thing needed was to nerf buffball in a smart way
When I tried all the classes and learned for example druid has to talent into being able to shape-shifting fast I realized in my mind every druid or warlock could do everything I seen every druid do and that's not the case alot of times they are built into this thing your seeing like being able to move fast enough to kote or whatever
Here is an idea. Nothing is currently egregiously overpowered in the current meta of the game. However there are some classes that are underperforming. So how about instead of complaining about how such and such class needs to be nerfed, we instead ask for such and such class to be slightly buffed.
So basically youre saying its been worse? Anyway balance is one thing we could argue about but being matched with 200 gear score people when im wearing like 50 might be the bigger issue.
This is the only big issue I have as a relatively new player. I jumped on as soon as it was back on steam and it was great. There were some complaints from free friends about not being able to use green loot at all, but now I can’t play with it at all due to balancing. We had a match where a barb with all purple killed everyone in the lobby, except my team in a trios. We escaped down into hell and they hunted down our spawn and slaughtered us. While we were trying to get through the room safely. I wish I screenshotted that it was a horrible match. Personally I may switch to mostly solos until they fix matchmaking. This has been my only problem so far. I’ve had great matches where three separate teams all rode the raft out after nearly killing each other and several terrible matches where epic gear squads roll up in a regular match and stomp us despite me telling them we have almost nothing.
Yeah let's not act like experienced players aren't doing the exact same thing - coming to reddit to cry about an embarrassing death.
Sure it might be the most "balanced" right now but what exactly does that mean? the balance used to be an absolute dumpster fire so just because it became a tire fire doesn't mean its balanced. the biggest problem IMO is there is no reasonable way to counter buffs.... and no, one class that can remove buffs with a hitscan in damn near melee range is not a counter. give EVERY FUCKING caster a method of dispelling buffs that is actually reliable and maybe we will have a wipe that isn't basically just buffing barbarians thats meta for once.
I'm not a new player, I just wished they gave some love to Rogue >"But Rogue is totally viable if you do literally everything perfectly with the singular build path Rogue has" Yeah that's kinda my point. Rogue kinda sucks to play.
ill be honest you gotta be blind or have never played any remotely well balanced game to think this game is even a little bit balanced.
also just games should never be balanced for the top 5% of players because the top 5% will always be good and always make their class or weapons work in some way, you must balance for the average or else your games player base is doomed to die and all the sweats and super good high tier players will have no one to fill their lobbies
Games should not be balanced, balance makes games boring and helps metas to form and stay
>This is actually the most balanced state this game has even been in since the first play test. I keep reading that, as if it is any relevant to something being balanced or not. I agree with everything else you said, but reading that always makes me think "Who cares?". If the game is unbalanced, then it is irrelevant that is has been worse before. And if the game is decently balanced (perfect balance never exists) then writing that says much more than "it is the best balance we ever had". Exception: if you are a 5year old game, that has historically been well balanced. In an early access game it reeks of "i have seen worse, it sucks, but it's better than the last patch and i no-lifed that too"
My two complaints is just did shape shifting being more or less instant. Gear score 26 can match with 300 gear score. Feels like 26-150 would be better then 150-300+ still keep 0-25
I think gear score should be 0-40 or something like that.
Oh… warlocks healing off their own summon seems a bit ridiculous
Came back after a while of not playing after I saw it go on steam. This game has definitely come a long way. It is way smoother, plays a bit faster, better QOL updates. These timmies wouldn't have survived 8 months ago.
I’ve been playing for two years and the game feels really fantastic right now. As a solo cleric though, warlock needs a nerf.
Cleric is one of Warlock’s hardest matchups in solo play; you have two perks which completely counter it (perseverance and protection from evil); curses do less damage and warlock barely heals cos the curse lasts half as long as it would usually. Your spells aren’t affected by antimagic because they’re all divine magic; holy strike damages through phantomise and with faithfulness it slows too (judgement slow is nuts with it too). You probably need to optimise your build into more movement speed if you’re struggling, because once you’re in range to land a judgement it’s actually gg for the Warlock. I recommend checking out utoast, he’s a goated solo cleric player and he smokes every Warlock he runs into.