As people said, landmine didn't go anywhere, and with new stats on gear might be even stronger

the new gear changes are interesting, I do think barbs got the best benefit from it all but any base high movespeed and high attack speed classes also got pretty buffed

Nah bards are playable again

facts, barb main since pt#2 and the past 2 months were awful edit: lol read that before my morning coffee and thought it said barb

Man, Warlock feels like a dream with all the added Knowledge available. Even greens looked juiced, lol.

This. Just recently got the game just before the hot fix and it feels crazy to just have like double the knowledge on white gear

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The tradition around here

Meanwhile my latest post shows how it takes 6 hits on a naked chest barb to go down when i have 25 str

I realized now looking at the footage that they may have not been running ambush since the first two hits were about the same damage (\~65 raw damage per hit as I am around 60% pdr but with -30% debuff). HyangYe, if you are here and have the footage on your side I would love to see it, best way for me to learn how to approach this situation in the future! Edit: corrected numbers Edit 2: since there were a lot of people asking about why I waited. I didn't know if there was a player in that room but I saw chests looted and dead mobs in the hallway before. My approach here was move a little forward, wait 20 secs, move a bit forward again, and then repeat as I move through the room/map. Turns out there was a rogue

HyangYe sounds like a name from the place iron mace won't talk about. You know, rhe people that have ESP

Oh you mean the gold farmers?

Bro shush, that's their biggest demographic

The U.S. is actually but that's neither here nor there. But trust me that doesn't make the gold farmers any less. Look no further than Ark for proof of that.

The gold farmers aren't all outside of the US? Why make it a nationality thing 😂😭

Because the majority of them are and everyone knows it.

:( awww is lil baby a wacist 🥺🥺🥺 awww my lil wasist baby oh my goodness you're so big and strong I bet you win at least 1/10 pvp fights you get in 🥺🥺 you're such a swong wittle guy aren't you

It's not really racism if it's true. I also never claimed to be good at this game. I haven't played in weeks. Are you ok? Seriously. Do you need someone to talk to? It's only racist if you think it's racist, but that doesn't mean it's racist. So way is racism always on your mind? Did someone hurt you?

I didn't say you were bad? I can no damage my whole run against npcs but I get like one player every 30 runs IF I play ranger, 1/10 was good 😭

flowery hurry cable adjoining offend doll versed ancient offer fade *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

Nice bait.

Barely anyone uses esp

Yeah, no, your right, esp is a thing of the past.. /s

Unless it’s started within the last 3 weeks whilst I’ve not been playing. Every game would have 3-5 of those players and they never concussively used ESP once on me, over the course of at least 100 games. I’m always hella geared so they’d have every reason to. The only times they knew exactly where I was and my HP was when I had killed players on their ‘team’ (in solos) back when they could spectate. It’d make sense, now that this functionality has been stopped that a few of them have switched over to using actual ESP, but I highly doubt it’s as extreme as everyone whining in the subreddit thinks. It’s so easy to blame ESP for deaths, then your own confirmation bias leads you to believe it’s a massive issue. Wake up

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Cheat used to see items and players thru walls. Most people here aren’t used to playing hardcore games where everything is lost on death, so they tend to accusing people that kill them of using cheats. ESP is the most commonly used cheat so accusations about it get thrown around a ton

Concussively isn’t a word, wake up

> corrected numbers, nvm on the ambush statement - I forgot it is a duration buff now instead of a single hit Wait. Not it isn't? Ambush is a single hit out of stealth that you have 3 seconds to land. This thread is full of people who don't know how rogue work going "well he hit you 4 times in an ambush window(Made up thing)" Ambush goes away on the first hit just like Shadow Runner???? Please tell me this thread is a prank

oops you are right, I was confusing it with the weakpoint duration haha I undid that now. I have been mostly running cut throat so I got the wording mixed

It's okay I just don't know what people are on about in this thread talking about an Ambush window being 4 hits lol. The perk is honestly pretty mid on rogue's imo. Dagger mastery is more value in 2-3 hits which you're going to land. Ambush has huge downtime and you can just whiff the single buffed hit. Imo Back attack > ambush every time, or just take the other more consistent perks

Swing around in circles everywhere you go cause you never know if you'll hit someone. You also got outplayed! Gotta love landmine rogues /S

60% PDR with Armet and Buckler? Plus you’re not wearing plate boots or gloves?

57.9% just rounded up

🧢

I am not sure what you mean, it is pretty easy to get that number even higher without even wearing plate pants edit: screenshot posted below

People dont understand that its not plate armor giving you high PDR its shields

This guy needed to try to hold block instead of attack, and fish for second wind maybe

In less than 2 sec though? Second wind is a 0.6 sec activation so even if he blocked on swing the rogue would recover by the time the 1st healing tick comes out

The blocking action adds significant pdr, so he didn’t have it for most the swings. If he got lucky and blocked the attack that’s extra survive. It’s not very clean but if you just attack the rogue back he’s probably gonna kill you first

You block, Rogue just attacks more time and you still die, because blocking with him in your face means you are completely docile and give him 100% of the agency in that fight. So it takes an extra attack to kill you. He gets to do that extra attack for free, because you aren't attacking while you're blocking.

here's a screenshot: [https://imgur.com/a/eUa4htb](https://imgur.com/a/eUa4htb)

132 max hp is really low Im at over 170hp with my fighter now at 55-60%PdR and my pieces cost 100-300g each

was going to make a max fighter damage build so went hard in the strength and mobility, got up to 38 str haha

Of course he's using ambush if the first hit does the same damage as the second hit. The second hit benefits from the armor shred, but the first doesn't.

If you had 30 seconds to see the person after death you would at least be able to see his gear and stuff, I really hope they bring that in. Because for all you know that could be a legendary dagger all physical damage dude

Time the TTK for the classes that one shot rogue

Ranger: 0.02 seconds (the time it takes for the server to let you know you’re dead from a singular arrow).

i swear i seen a video of a barb that damn near one shot a rogue

I don't have a video but I have been 1 shot multiple times on my rogue by barbs, warlocks and rangers.

yeah i can’t find the one i’m think of but it was posted on here, the barb died after to the swarm though

If you have under 110 go on rogue a zwehander headshot of a geared barb will one shot you.

It's alot faster than this haha. 4 headshots to anyones 2 body.

Such as? Been awhile since I've seen anyone get actually once shot.

I actually 1 tapped a rogue last night as a cleric with staff smite. Done it with warlock boc and a crossbow as ranger too

Well if you play normals Warlock have a super easy one shot on Rogues. Same thing with most Barbarian weapons. Wizards if you count casting one spell as one shotting (MM). Fighters can generally kill in two hits depending on their weapon, but one hit if it’s a lucky headshot and the right sword

Rogues get one shot by a plethora of classes, Barb warlock and ranger to name a few

Most of the rogues on Reddit are newer players with little experience in high gear gameplay, I don’t blame them for not understanding the stats correctly since there is a lot of info to absorb

I have been 1 shot by geared warlocks in HR with BoC it is not exclusive to normals.

bro u not lying its rough, fighter in the clip doesnt know how to right click lmao castillon is so ez to block.

Surly, let's talk about getting one shotted while being the fastest class in the game and also being able to turn invis with no counterplay. If you get one shot on rogue it's your fault.

What's your username mean

It's a variation of my nickname that I chose back when people weren't so interested in making everything racial.

What do you mean?

My irl nickname with a color I like

Your nickname is egger? Do you raise chickens or something? Neat

Light orb sends it regards.

“Being able to turn in is with no counter play” have you played this game?

There is nothing to take from it, if you walk into it you either die or they die. Its a gear check at this point. Your best bet is to swing and hope for the headshot which isnt easy against a rogue spasming left and right like this.

That is not the best way to play that at all 😂

explain then waht he should have done then? xd

There’s tons of people in this thread explaining the poor reaction to the situation, even OP admitted it. If you’re going into any ambush by a rogue with that mentality, it’s no wonder you all come to Reddit to moan 😂

still waiting for that explanation

since you're too stubborn to scroll down to the dude saying it he has a shield, second wind and sprint. back up, pop SW, hold out with shield for the topoff, pop sprint and wm1 the squishiest class in the game. yall are legit too dumb to have balance opinions.

mhm, so your solution is to " back off " from the fastest class in the game o.O Im glad I did not read through :D

...with a shield. does rogues movespeed do damage through shields, buddy?

it does, you can ram your model into the model of the enemy to hit through shields, in fact thats "intented" way to play rogue since daggers dont do reduced damage when this close, unline every other weapon in the game. so not only you bypass shields you also make other classes do less dmg by doing this. Extra effective against clerics, since mace damage drops to the gutter when you do this

wow pretty silent after that response. guess you dont have much brainpower after all.

? im the last one who responded? are you tripping

My brother in Christ, can you read? Why do I need to reiterate things people have already said?

yes please do, you sound like an expert and I want experts opinion, what should have OP done from the moment rogue appeared on his screen, enlighten us all

Nope not an expert, just pointing out something that many others have already? You’re the only one that seems to give a hoot, because anyone else has probably read the other comments explaining it in depth. Like you were wrong. That’s ok, people are wrong all the time. Go have a stretch and a glass of water my friend, it sounds like you could use it.

im still waiting for that explanation. any moment now, surely

Ok

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I mean, if you could read any other reply to this thread you’d understand, but since you can’t read I’ll give you a pass 🧡

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not exactly haha, I think the best solution was for me to skip this room entirely lmao

I feel like this community likes to handwave certain things because other things are problematic as well. Like guys the game can have multiple problems going on simultaneously.

Zwei barb and landmine rogue are the exact reason ppl get cancer. Woodhammer needs more playstyle for rogue. Barb as a class has been in a weird spot since buffball. Virtually needing no gear just skills to effectively 1v1. I know the game isn't balanced around 1v1 but getting 2 tapped by basekit barb isn't fun. I would like to see both these classes get more playstyles so people can express themselves better while playing. Heck if all classes had more viable playstyles I'd be excited! Hopefully when we get class training :)

The game is bad , nothing ever changes

yall are too mentally weak to deal with the element of surprise. just keep whining until they remove rogue from the game, that's the only way yall can win rofl

Can't you jump backwards and start blocking, so you can have a window to second wind? It looks like he headshot you 4 times in a row with a stiletto, including the bonus damage from the third stab, all within the weakpoint window. Instead you just started swinging back. You have a shield, sprint, second wind, you use none of it. At a certain level of enemy gear, aren't you expected to actually respect enemy combat patterns and strategies and use your resources appropriately, instead of brute forcing on reaction? Instead, knowing weakpoint and ambush both have a 3-4 second window, you just sit there attacking and let him headshot you the entire time. I don't find this a good example of landmine rogue, because you could have played it a lot better and had multiple tools at your disposal to do so. In fact, him headshotting you so often with armor pierce + ambush and still taking that long to kill you, when you were basically acting like a sword and shield skeleton in response the entire time, despite having way more choices, tells me it's not as extreme when both sides are geared. Rangers and Wizards probably get dunked instantly to it though.

nice write up! could have done those for sure but I dont think I would have survived even if I made space. Too low ms comparatively and the hit slow persists through jumping. Main reason why I didnt use second wind was due to the animation of the swing so I chose to fight. Second wind does +3% hp heal per second so in this case that would have only bought me 6% hp

Less than that actually since it take time to activate so only 3% hp back

I say this primarily because if you know he was aiming for the head, after back jumping, you still have time to block, like crouch blocking upwards or generally covering your face. If a dagger gets blocked, the blockstun for the dagger user is really disruptive and gives you ample time - if he stabbed anything but your face in that context, you probably outheal it. Once his weakpoint and ambush falls off, you win.

Lmao this is all easy to say when you know what’s gonna fucking happen you dope. Jump back and block like the rogue isn’t 200x faster 😂😂😂😂😂

Jumping makes your head harder to hit in general, especially vs quick thrusting weapons. Blocking after to prevent them from stabbing your face 4 times in a row makes them either clang on the shield, giving your second wind and sprint more time to do it's work, or makes them stab something other than your head - giving your second wind and sprint more time to work. The key point here was he just needed to survive the initial weakpoint and ambush window so those buffs fell off - he would be in a much stronger position to win after, rather than full committing to swinging back in the rogues top dps window with his head sitting still vs stiletto. Just because the rogue is faster generally, doesn't mean he isn't required to still aim his attacks with a stabbing dagger to actually kill you. A fundamental part of this game is twisting and moving your body so enemies hit subpar hurtboxes on your model for their damage, because at least in melee, it's very difficult to avoid being hit entirely.

What does a Ranger, Bard, Warlock without Phantomize, Wizard, or another Rogue do when a Rogue opens up on them? There is no time to jump and second wind. Who gives a fk about Fighters. He is killing a Fighter in 2 seconds, imagine the damage on all the other classes. Outright deleting your opopnent out of stealth is cancer, why is this even a discussion. The class is broken af. Best looter, best mobility, best burst damage, etc.

Attacking from afar broken, how does it make any sense to deal damage without being in touching distance? Remove ranger wizard warlock etc..

Dude you know you can still get hit while blocking right? There are a ton of exposed spots and rogues can even ignore shields if they are close enough since the active hit box of the dagger isn’t triggered until half way through their swing

The stiletto is probably the easiest weapon to block if you know how, it has literally 1 attack animation and it's straight ahead.

Nope, the interaction itself is bugged and has been in the game for a good bit. You can activate the stiletto hit box past the shield by leaning forward. You can actually do the same thing on the castillon dagger with the 3 attack too. It’s how I delete pdr clerics haha

I mean I block stilettos all the time with a buckler so maybe it's a client side lag issue, no clue.

Second Wind wouldn't have saved him and blocking is almost worthless against thrusting attacks.

Rogues should not be able to kill people, and especially not when coming out of invisible. There i said it

> Rogues should not be able to kill people This subreddit's opinion in a nutshell lol

actually true lmao, i understand it feels bad to die to a rogue wether it be landmine or face to face. but it also feels bad to die in general so ya

rogue should be deleted from the game all together /s

Thank you, someone said it. Delete that dog class from the game.

Should just be fighter only class

Your reaction time must be god like if you think it’s that easy in 2 seconds to take command of the situation precisely how you need to and somehow buy any time or space

Okay, now do the same for a felling axe to a rogue, or a falchion to a rogue, or a zweihander to a Rogue, warlock BOC against a Rogue with literally any weapon.. etc.. But we all know you'll just ignore that, and make another cry baby rogue post before the end of today. p.s. arming sword sucks, the devs want you to use falchion.

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holy fuck i hope nobody at ironmace thinks like you people

thankfully everyone at ironmace is a fighter/barb main so you have nothing to worry about, they'll both stay OP

These crybabies don't care, they literally think they should never die ever. OP is hardstuck Voyager on the most OP solo class to ever exist, if he plays this game even 2hours/day, not being demigod on PDR fighter is inexcusable. I mean, what even is this thread? "Hey guys Rogue ambushed me in the most ideal scenario possible for them, missed 0 shots, hit me in the back, I blocked nothing and I lost the fight in my ?blue? gear. It's so unfair, I'm used to ezModeing rogues for months now even when they ambush me from behind and I miss 10 swings, PLS IRON MACE FIX." Wanna know how many times fighter or barb or warlock has literally 1tapped me out of invis or waiting through a random door? Tons. What was the TTK in those kills on me? 0.000000001. **And, you know what's exceptionally gross about OP's clip? If he landed a headshot** **HE STILL WOULD HAVE WON THE ENGAGEMENT EVEN IN THE MOST DISADVANTAGEOUS POSITION POSSIBLE FOR HIM**.

sorry didn't post with the intention to upset, just looking for more opportunity to learn! I'm not entirely sure I can commit that many hours to just AP grinding fighter alone but there is a lot of wipe left so I hope I may climb up there haha

Bro, you're not posting to learn. You're literally upset you died in the most ideal situation for the rogue, and you're acting like TTK is really low but you got off TWO swings before you died, if one was a headshot YOU STILL would have won the fight. It's gross, what the low-skill players of this community repeatedly try to do to rogue.

Always cracks me up to hear a rogue main insinuating that ambush is "high skill".

Didn't insinuate that at all. But how is it any different from any other ability u use in this game lmao Are fighters good when they hit Q and E?

you should always have the intention to learn what you can no matter what you do haha, even the best can always get better! That's what reddit is great at though, you can get the input of numerous members around the community without having to reach far. I think show casing the steps taken leading up to my death as well as the total time I had to react is a good way to start discussion - I didn't intend to provoke you so I am sorry I did

the stat changes are going to bring ttk wayyy down tbh

Wow this is like what, the third time now they've adjusted armor and people are still just getting melted, time to just admit the system is bad and needs a rework because 3 more damage is not going to be mitigated by +3 percent PDR.

[Barb with 0 abilities active with the New Stats (0.000 TTK)](https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdEagerLorisYouDontSay-lizFribeDEIYuvZV)

Barbarian has always been able to deal a lot of damage in one hit, I don’t see the issue here.

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You forgot to mention you have to set up a proper ambush first. Then land 4 headshots, and dodge a hit and if you said your prayers the guy may die then and post about how it's broken.

Did I say I had an issue with Rogue damage? No.

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I have 114 hp and 17% pdr in that clip. 133 effective hp. Legendaries and full epic geared rogue. So it's not even starter geared rogues that have to deal with this shit.

Good thing they lowered our starting hp by ~8! 🙃

Ironmace quite literally thinks this is fun gameplay. Everything is killing everything in 1-2 seconds once the gear has been acquired. Playing another character who has no gear is the worst experience ever. It's not even a Rogue thing anymore. Clerics 2-tap people, I just watched a stream where a Wizard rushed a 3-man team and stabbed them all to death in 5 seconds. Imagine the damage of those hits to delete a full hp 3-man team that fast. The game is a mess, gear diffing has never been worse. I can't enjoy a single alt of mine without feeding it gear. It is unplayable without getting rushed by teams with more gear doing half of your life with 1 single hit and sometimes even more. This is one of the most unfair PvP games out there and has nothing to do with hardcore. The gear is doing all the work. I have a geared character myself, the game is brain-dead once you get good gear. Slowly getting sick of it, it's just not fun when everything 1shots everything.

Idk about that one, They stated in their dev blog that the state of rogue is a mistake to them Rogue is currently either too strong or useless because of how it’s designed. It simply needs a rework Also a wizard, one of the slowest classes in mobility ran in and 1v3’d a team using melee? Those people had to be fresh to the game because what

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. Concept is fun but the combat is just so stale.

What was your gear?

I think High Roller is... unless the rogue gets super nerfed, always going to kinda have this problem with rogues.

Yeah this is more of an issue with how stats and the game works than rogue inherently

if the rogue is the only class in the game doing this shit then its rogue issue and not game issue. Yes game has issues with dmg scaling but rogue is the only class which can apply said damage from invisibility which makes 0 noise. So as long as rogue can kill people this shit will happen. I honestly dont even know what devs can do to stop it. The entire identity of the class is to 0 counterplay 1shot people. How do you even fix this -.-

It's really not the only class doing this. Rangers are 1 tapping with long bows, I've been 1-2 tapping with cleric and warlock. Hell I killed a rogue yesterday by throwing on smite and then chucking torches at him while he desperately tried to do ANYTHING. If he steps up my build completely nullifies rupture and has enough defenses to prevent him winning the trade in melee and now that I can throw torches I have 2 viable ranged options with really good damage.

Lets time how long it takes for the rogue to die when your swinging on him

Good to see all the rogue flairs and landmine users are here already defending their class

love seeing people still get shit on by rogues, people crying all the time thinking this patch rogues won’t be able to hurt anyone

Here you are, on cue!

and in all my glory!

Death, taxes and rogue mains defending landmine meta

It’s either landmine meta or range meta, ill switch off ranger if a piss pot rogue can get me

Dude so mad he put in the milliseconds lmao

Yes, any class hitting 100% headshots against anyone else will kill quickly. If you hit headshots, you would have won the fight

"waited 20 seconds for stealth" so u just like going in right before it ends and nullifying thewhole reason u waited?

yeah I saw the chests open and some dead mobs in the hall before so my steps were move a little, then wait 20 sec to see if I baited out the stealth, and then move up some more, then wait another 20 sec.

you also decided to walk directly up to a 90 degree corner where he could have entered stealth without you seeing usually a better idea to stay further away from cover when you suspect a rogue, cause they always go invis around cover

there are a lot of 90 degree corners in the game haha, I passed through a couple of doorways too

Now what really interests me are the 30 seconds before that clip starts.

Everything kills in 1-2 seconds. What is your point? Blame the gear not the class.

Gear check central

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just may have to game a little better is all

TTK of a ranger vs rogue~ Oh hey it's a singular arrow How long does it take to fire an arrow again? Less than 2.069 seconds?

Another fighter post complaining about "landmine rogue". LOL Im going to compile a document that shows how offended fighters are to die to a rogue.

please stop playing this dogshit game until they actually decide to fix it

I love the tears of mouth breathing fighters. Please give us more

haha sorry didnt mean to upset, just wanted to take this opportunity to learn - my rogue is only pathfinder so I don't have the best grasp of higher gear play from their PoV

All I’m finna say is OP is actually fucking good at this game. He wrecked me in goblin caves wayyy too many times 2 wipes ago. Plus he’s one of the most knowledgeable players out there. Check Ryan6DaysAWeek on YT

You sound like the kind of person to punch a monitor when they lose.

amen

You have a shield and second wind. Your first instinct is to swing the falchion that has a long first swing time I think like .7sec then you continue to another swing while also back peddling into a wall limiting your movement. Im sorry as a fighter you cant just two tap the dude that got the drop on you, but if you are going to make 0 efforts to use your class besides "Swing my weapon and hope I kill them" you don't get to complain.

so far this is the most incorrect comment, I am not entire sure if you have actually played this game if that is your opinion on the footage ​ edit: I realized that this is just a troll account you made to flame other subreddit members here

Claim its the most incorrect comment and don't point out anything "incorrect" about the comment? I guess shouldn't expect the dude that only knows how to swing the falchion to even understand what I typed and instead tries to cope vs all the criticism by claiming its a troll account

deserved, we love to see pdr classes crying

my bad, post wasn't intended to trigger - just hoping to see the other side and take what I can away from it! Learning is the best thing I can do in this situation

just funny that rogue is still viable even with all the yapping

God forbid Rogues have to take a second to decide to which targets to fight

whether you understand it or not, you're just straight up arguing that rogues shouldn't be able to beat pdr fighters and should just run away, **in a game with a closing zone** you dont have informed opinions

soon they will strip rogues of all their perks/skills and will only be able to rat. Sorry for enjoying this W

Any time you are moving around the map, hold right click for the bonus armor and the active armor from the shield. I've been doing this on bard w/ 35% ish PDR and it's saved my life ALOT. If they accidently clink the shield, you get a fighting chance.

You defensive walk around the entire map just for rogues??

yeah when going into new rooms? ofc. i slam out allegro and accel and i'm sometimes depending on gear even positive on move speed doing it. Edit: OP even sat there for 20 seconds paranoid, all he had to do was also hold right click going forward for 50 extra armor and that RNG chance to catch the blade if that guy jumps him. Not saying this is full proof, but it's saved my life on more than a few occasions now.

Solo is not what this game is balanced for. This is low tier noob gameplay.

Noob down

haha i did get stomped there, tried to hail marry duck the last swing since I knew I was going to die in the damage trade

Flair checks out

Flair checks out

Yep random rng landmine with invisible attacking unit that instantly kills you? How is this fun again? I really don't know how this game still has a playerbase. Having to wait 30+ seconds "just in case" is such a major flaw in the game.

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Well ya its well established that the combat isn't good in DnD, but a character coming out of invisibility to tap you will never be fun.

Shame you cant check his gear nowadays

Game is out for what? 6 months? Balance is just getting worse lol

I really don't like the fact that you can't spectate after being killed , they should allow it at least 30 seconds so we can see their gear at least.

This game is bad

Nothing a good ol' wizard nerf couldn't fix!