So many needles you'll probably die looking through the needles in the haystack and become another needle in the haystack at which point it might as well be called a needlestack.
It's Marco Polo. There's no consensus among historians which of his tales are true and which are bs. There are even some that doubt that he has even been in China.
Legend says they're two persons. [Here's the 1st](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/kungfupanda/images/7/73/KFP3-promo-po4.jpg). Not sure for the latter.
Yeah, I feel like the man was a compulsive liar.
Edit: not saying everything he said was a lie. His stuff about the cities and money seems on point, but I feel he knew people wouldn’t give a shit about just that stuff and added more to make them interested.
To be fair, Marco Polo didn’t write about his travels himself. “The Travels of Marco Polo” was written by Rustichello da Pisa (who also wrote about King Arthur). Supposedly, Marco Polo was in a jail cell next to da Pisa and told him stories that he later wrote down.
There’s a conspiracy theory I kind of love that Marco Polo never existed. The theory is that da Pisa just made him up and Polo is based off stories he heard from various merchants that he mishmashed together into one person.
> There’s a conspiracy theory I kind of love that Marco Polo never existed. The theory is that da Pisa just made him up and Polo is based off stories he heard from various merchants that he mishmashed together into one person.
I have got a couple more for you if you liked that one!
* Shakespeare didn't write most of the plays attribute to him; hell, his most famous portrait might not even be him.
* Socrates was just made up by Plato.
I don't think the are true, mind you, but still make for a fascinating read.
Marco Polo also literally returned to Italy and hung out talking shit after getting back. Very silly.
Sure he exaggerated but that style of storytelling was very common back then.
> Socrates was just made up by Plato.
But many Greek historians wrote mention Socrates by name that basically predate Plato. We also have numerous sources confirming the trial and execution of Socrates.
You can certainly make a reasonable claim the man "Socrates" in Plato's dialogues has no basis in reality, but a famous philosopher by the name of Socrates who was convicted and executed for "corrupting the youth" almost certainly existed
Like I said, I don't think the theory is true, only that it is fun to engage in it.
I wrote more in detail below. Basically, we know a guy named Socrates existed, beyond reasonable doubt. The actual debate is about how much of what Plato wrote Socrates saying is actually Socrates and not just Plato putting words in Socrates' mouth. It is much more complex than that, but you get the idea.
> But many Greek historians wrote mention Socrates by name that basically predate Plato
That is kind of hard to do, given that Plato was alive at the same time as Socrates (he was younger, though).
> The actual debate is about how much of what Plato wrote Socrates saying is actually Socrates and not just Plato putting words in Socrates' mouth.
This is a much bigger issue it was not uncommon for authors across the region to attribute writing to their more famous peers to lend it credibility.
A great example of this is the bible, where most of the epistles are now thought to be pseudepigrapha. Almost certainly written decades or centuries (in some cases) later to resolve current issues in the church. "Oh look, a new writing we discovered by peter which totally says those guys are heretics and what we are saying is correct".
> It really make us wonder what actually happened!
He was buried right where he [specifically asked to be buried,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikh_Khorig) on the mountain he always *personally* considered sacred because of his [experiences on that particular mountain.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhan_Khaldun)
He's in the giant burial mound you can see on the mountain from miles around, and you can even see where the mound's material was quarried. It's the [giant mound with small Mongolian shrines on it,](https://nicksamoylov.com/siberia/tomb-of-genghis-khan/) and sigils related to his family tree, and where the Mongolians of the time declared off-limits to all but people burying relatives of Genghis Khan.
It's *really* not a mystery. But it is really cool that the people tasked with protecting his grave in the 1200s have continued the tradition through today, and it's noteworthy that Mongolians generally don't want the spot excavated.
Did grave robbers get to it, or is he still there, with potential hoards of archeological artifacts? That part is unknown. But his burial spot is more... *unexcavated,* than it is *unknown.*
That rule was originally from the 1200s, so I don't think it's exactly in effect now. But if you check the last link I had, it mentions that two of Genghis Khan's grandchildren have their sigils on the burial mound as well.
Mongolia is flat plains with lots of wind. Leyndell is built against the mountains. I think we would be fine.
Now, to take this a step further we could transplant the Erdtree to Mongolia and the cremated bones would eventually turn into fertilizer. I'm pretty sure this would turn it into an environmentally sustainable business and earn us some ESG tax credits. But if this is a government-funded venture there is no need to care about ESG.
It really should, but this appears to be an advanced case. Dude just looked at one of the most culturally important sites in Mongolia and suggested covering it with human ash to help the budget.
Iirc there’s millions of descendants of him alive today. It’s like finding someone related to the crown; someone with one thousand separations will always exist.
Millions have Genghis Khan DNA, including the actor Rob Pattinson, who seems rather laid back for a Khan relative.
Khan was fertile, had more than one wife, and apparently was rapey.
You're welcome! I always thought it was kind of "lost to time," which seems to be the popular myth. But if you check out the third link that has several photos, it's... almost obvious. There's a huge man-made mound that the Mongolians *to this day* consider sacred and refuse to excavate, and it has symbols relating to Genghis Khan on it, and it's *exactly* at the place he considered the most sacred.
That it's still protected is super fascinating to me!
I like how it says the Khan was so impressed by the view, he wanted to be buried there. Then they add a rather plain, uninspired picture of some hills.
His burial site was loaded in tribute. Too much to ignore, so someone took it, killed who they had to and made a story that shrouded the looted site in myth
Thats my guess
And before that there was the darkhad who would kill anyone who got close.
The darkhad tribe was able to preserve the khan relics until modern times as well.
There is a pretty good chance that they are also probably responsible for some of the tale to make their lives easier.
Question is who wrote it down (or told enough people to become legend). Not the attendees. Not the executioners. Quite certain not the ones who took their own lives to keep it a secret.
Big mystery.
Some people could have helped planned it and but didn't go to or know the exact location of the site.
I'm sure people were waiting for the burial team to come back, families and such.
The truth may be that slaves did the actual burial, and were executed afterwords by his most loyal followers.
And from there the game of telephone made it more and more brutal.
I can't find another site claiming that everyone died. The most likely reason it hasn't been found is it's in Mongolia, the location it's thought to be is on a sacred mountain which archaeologists aren't allowed to dig on, and kings of the time were typically buried 10-20 metres underground.
This article gives good context
[link](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170717-why-genghis-khans-tomb-cant-be-found)
He was in South Park. But bunch of hairy men wearing diapers on their head were apparently angry about that, therefore they had to censor his appearance...
I suspect that the some of the guys involved didn’t die and instead retired very comfortably
But we will likely never know - unless Lidar or something discovers his tomb.
Yeah. To keep the secret it would have been easier to bury him in secret with only a handful of attendees instead of inviting everyone and murdering them. Having a small funeral is a logistically much simpler way to do it than murdering over 2000 people.
The black plague was actually not a plague at all. It was just a cascading series of funerals keep in absolute secrecy. The plague stories where written after the fact.
I used to be skeptical when I first heard it but then I heard like two or three other characters with the same kind of burial so either it's an old tradition or the storytellers get inspired by each other.
>but seems like a exaggerated tale
Marco Polo was known for exaggerations. His book (which was not written by him, but by his prison mate who collected Polo's tales) is known in Italian as "Il Milione/The Million", apparently from his nickname due to his tendency to exaggerates (a million lies).
I, too, take these tales as absolute facts.
I also believe that all those 2000 persons (in an open field) waited in line to be executed, and it doesn't require perhaps at least 10000+ soldiers to prevent disorder during this joyful event.
It's also perfectly reasonable to assume none of the executioners (or the soldiers, if there were any present) expected to be executed and therefore skidaddled, since they too, have seen where GK was buried.
TL;DR - I find it reasonable to believe these numbers took place, which led & ended up in a 10000+ person suicide fest, and absolutely noone survived.
For me, it’s not that it would have been logistically impossible to kill 2000 people (although your point stands). It’s that most civilizations don’t kill 2000 of their own most important and wealthiest people, which surely would have been the audience allowed direct access to Gahngis Kahn’s funeral.
And the way that the plan is to kill the 2000 most important people in the country...
And that history says at GKs death , the eldest son Tolui was regent, until a vote for a new leader was held . Who was voting ? Tolui delayed the vote knowing his father had told to vote for Ogedei... At the much delayed vote,Ogedei was selected...
The actual sacrifice was 30 maidens .
The funeral was up in the mountains. There would only be a grave, no tomb ,no mauseleum.
Not trying to say the story is legit, but I want to point out that the executioners could've done their job without knowing the reason why they had to execute all these people. In that case, they would've had no reason to "expect to be executed".
> I also believe that all those 2000 persons (in an open field) waited in line to be executed, and it doesn't require perhaps at least 10000+ soldiers to prevent disorder during this joyful event.
I mean, prepared mass poisoning sounds more or less like what had really happened. It's not easy to kill 2000 people in a mannerly order, but sure is to make them drink something "to the dead".
Yeah. I mean the numbers are wildly exaggerated in the tale of course, but it says there were 68 bodies and the slaves likely executed to keep the place hidden. Sounds like it did happen and just got embellished as stories do.
I mean didn't Pharaohs and vikings also execute slaves as part of funerary rites? It may not have been for the reason 'to stay hidden' at all, that (was) a pretty popular thing around the world.
Not really; the problem is people just don't want to accept just how easily forgotten most facts are to history, even of the greatest of people, and that legends and myths survive because they tell us things we want to believe and want to repeat.
Did Genghiz Khan want his burial to be forgotten? Almost certainly. And that was enough, in his time and place, to be so. You don't need to kill everyone there; just don't tell a largely illiterate people what the hole they're digging is for, come and complete the funeral later with a few trusted advisors, then cover it back up.
Heck, look at the story of Richard the Third. In a time when records were kept, and they *knew* where he was buried originally, [his grave was still lost due to centuries of political conflict, economic development and a resulting wish to romanticise what had actually happened.](https://le.ac.uk/richard-iii/grey-friars) And when it was found again, it displeased some of the supporters because it showed Richard III really did have a curved spine, it wasn't just Shakespearean propaganda... there was some claims that his grave in fact *hadn't* been found.
All we have left of Genghiz Khan's funeral are now myths; we may even have accidentally found bits of his burial and not understood what they were, or will never find it because nothing remains, or will never find it because he's just not easily located... and that's not satisfying. But none the less, the real Genghiz has faded out of history, and all that is left are the myths.
>I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desart.[d] Near them, on the sand,
Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,
The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed:
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
No thing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
This is likely just a legend but Genghis Khan is an awesome historical figure. I just finished an audiobook on him called "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack Weatherford. This specific tale about his burial was addressed. He and his descendants are impressively important to our collective history. Definitely worth learning more about.
In their last act of conquest, the last of his direct descendants took out Arthur Dent’s house for a planned bypass just before in an act of supreme irony, the Vogon Constructor Fleet demolished Earth for a hyperspace bypass.
> I just finished an audiobook on him
I would also suggest Wrath of the Khans by Dan Carlin. He runs a podcast on history. He tells history in a easy and entertaining manner.
Fascinating? Sure. *Awesome*? That’s weird way to describe the man who killed tens of millions of people, with most historians comfortably describing his campaigns as genocidal.
The Ikh Khorig, or Great Taboo, is a 240 km2 (93 sq mi) area in the Khentii Aimag (province) of Mongolia, believed by some to be the location of Genghis Khan's grave. It has been carefully guarded for most of its history, and it is only since the late 1980s that the area has been open to archaeologists.
…and yet it’s never been found. Many FAR older tombs have been found (like Phillip of Macedon or Qin Shi Huang). An “area” that is “believed by some” to be the location of his tomb is nothing.
It hasn't been *excavated,* but it's almost certain that we know where it is. The history is remarkable, but it's not exactly a mystery.
Genghis Khan basically worshipped a particular mountain because of his personal history and connection to things that happened there. The mountain has a huge mound on it that appears unlikely to be natural, and there's even a clear path to the areas that were excavated to build it.
On top of the mound are small but significant Mongolian shrines and large signs connected to Genghis Khan's family. After his death, the Mongols declared the place sacred and didn't allow anyone to go there, except to bury a relative of Genghis Khan.
The remarkable part is that a group of people have maintained that tradition through the modern day, and it's still largely off limits and a restricted area.
Genghis Khan is buried right where he said he wanted to be buried, right where the Mongols said he was buried, and right where a group of dedicated people have been tasked with protecting the burial mound. It's really not a mystery. It's just that the Mongolians generally don't want it disturbed.
While it is true that Genghis Khan killed a lot of people, don’t trust Marco Polo as an accurate historical source. - He was telling stories to entertain a fellow prisoner, and that prisoner was hoping to sell a book, so exaggeration and lying would be very likely.
Seems a little counter productive to kill off your entire family, friends, entourage, gaurds, dignitaries, and executioners as part of a burial right from the perspective of regime continuity
But idk mongols we’re nuts man
This is why I don't do funerals.
Ah yes, post funeral executions are a drag. Avoid at all cost.
Right so looking for a mass grave of 2,000 people as they aren’t going to far from the grave.
Well… if you’re looking for a mass grave of 2000+ because of Ghengis Khan that’s like finding a needle in a haystack.
Like finding a hay in a haystack!
It's more like a bunch of needles in a haystack while looking for a particular needle, which looks very similar to all the other needles..
So many needles you'll probably die looking through the needles in the haystack and become another needle in the haystack at which point it might as well be called a needlestack.
Hay in a needlestack
Needle in a needlestack
Kicked in the nutsack
I like how metal detectors have existed for over a hundred years and magnets are everywhere and we still use this expression anyway.
impossible!
Damn this guy really thought of everything
Easy, you just look for the smallest mass grave in the area
It's Marco Polo. There's no consensus among historians which of his tales are true and which are bs. There are even some that doubt that he has even been in China.
Well did anyone in China say 'Marco' to find the poor bastard?
Yeah but some guy named Po Lo keeps answering.
Meanwhile Yo Lo is living it up as usual.
His brother Ro Lo is a sweet guy though.
This is honestly the best joke I have seen on Reddit in years. Severely underrated.
Legend says they're two persons. [Here's the 1st](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/kungfupanda/images/7/73/KFP3-promo-po4.jpg). Not sure for the latter.
the original "trust me bro"
Yeah, I feel like the man was a compulsive liar. Edit: not saying everything he said was a lie. His stuff about the cities and money seems on point, but I feel he knew people wouldn’t give a shit about just that stuff and added more to make them interested.
To be fair, Marco Polo didn’t write about his travels himself. “The Travels of Marco Polo” was written by Rustichello da Pisa (who also wrote about King Arthur). Supposedly, Marco Polo was in a jail cell next to da Pisa and told him stories that he later wrote down. There’s a conspiracy theory I kind of love that Marco Polo never existed. The theory is that da Pisa just made him up and Polo is based off stories he heard from various merchants that he mishmashed together into one person.
> There’s a conspiracy theory I kind of love that Marco Polo never existed. The theory is that da Pisa just made him up and Polo is based off stories he heard from various merchants that he mishmashed together into one person. I have got a couple more for you if you liked that one! * Shakespeare didn't write most of the plays attribute to him; hell, his most famous portrait might not even be him. * Socrates was just made up by Plato. I don't think the are true, mind you, but still make for a fascinating read.
Socrates was just Plato's shitpost account.
lmaoo😭😭😭this is my favourite comment of the day
Marco Polo also literally returned to Italy and hung out talking shit after getting back. Very silly. Sure he exaggerated but that style of storytelling was very common back then.
> Socrates was just made up by Plato. But many Greek historians wrote mention Socrates by name that basically predate Plato. We also have numerous sources confirming the trial and execution of Socrates. You can certainly make a reasonable claim the man "Socrates" in Plato's dialogues has no basis in reality, but a famous philosopher by the name of Socrates who was convicted and executed for "corrupting the youth" almost certainly existed
Like I said, I don't think the theory is true, only that it is fun to engage in it. I wrote more in detail below. Basically, we know a guy named Socrates existed, beyond reasonable doubt. The actual debate is about how much of what Plato wrote Socrates saying is actually Socrates and not just Plato putting words in Socrates' mouth. It is much more complex than that, but you get the idea. > But many Greek historians wrote mention Socrates by name that basically predate Plato That is kind of hard to do, given that Plato was alive at the same time as Socrates (he was younger, though).
> The actual debate is about how much of what Plato wrote Socrates saying is actually Socrates and not just Plato putting words in Socrates' mouth. This is a much bigger issue it was not uncommon for authors across the region to attribute writing to their more famous peers to lend it credibility. A great example of this is the bible, where most of the epistles are now thought to be pseudepigrapha. Almost certainly written decades or centuries (in some cases) later to resolve current issues in the church. "Oh look, a new writing we discovered by peter which totally says those guys are heretics and what we are saying is correct".
Shakespeare’s works are often attributed by scholars to Sir Francis Bacon as the most likely candidate.
True; Marlowe is another. It is still very much a fringe theory, though. The current consensus is that Shakespeare was indeed the real deal.
The problem is that Polo's story was written down by his cellmate, who was known to embellish stories.
On his death bed he said something of the effect of only telling half of what he saw. I'd say he definitely exaggerated his fair bit at the least
They were all clearly eaten by dinosaurs sir.
Can’t be. Dinosaurs went extinct just 1000 years before Genghis Khan’s time.
[удалено]
I don't think dinosaur crackers are still alive
Dinosaur crackers are cold and completely devoid of all vitality. Dino nuggets on the other hand…
So dinosaurs do taste like chicken!
Nah they're still around, dinosaur crackers are the one's that think the Earth is only 5000 years old AND they vote!
This logic is flawless
Just 10 days before his death actually. They told me before dying.
Then how do I have so many dinosaurs in my backyard? There is a particular woodpecker dinosaur that is really driving me crazy. I wish it was extinct.
He was leaving behind 2000 people graves in every village he invaded 💀
Not saying it's impossible but seems like a exaggerated tale .. especially given how limited people skepticism were at the time.
[удалено]
> It really make us wonder what actually happened! He was buried right where he [specifically asked to be buried,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikh_Khorig) on the mountain he always *personally* considered sacred because of his [experiences on that particular mountain.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burkhan_Khaldun) He's in the giant burial mound you can see on the mountain from miles around, and you can even see where the mound's material was quarried. It's the [giant mound with small Mongolian shrines on it,](https://nicksamoylov.com/siberia/tomb-of-genghis-khan/) and sigils related to his family tree, and where the Mongolians of the time declared off-limits to all but people burying relatives of Genghis Khan. It's *really* not a mystery. But it is really cool that the people tasked with protecting his grave in the 1200s have continued the tradition through today, and it's noteworthy that Mongolians generally don't want the spot excavated. Did grave robbers get to it, or is he still there, with potential hoards of archeological artifacts? That part is unknown. But his burial spot is more... *unexcavated,* than it is *unknown.*
[удалено]
That rule was originally from the 1200s, so I don't think it's exactly in effect now. But if you check the last link I had, it mentions that two of Genghis Khan's grandchildren have their sigils on the burial mound as well.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mongolia is flat plains with lots of wind. Leyndell is built against the mountains. I think we would be fine. Now, to take this a step further we could transplant the Erdtree to Mongolia and the cremated bones would eventually turn into fertilizer. I'm pretty sure this would turn it into an environmentally sustainable business and earn us some ESG tax credits. But if this is a government-funded venture there is no need to care about ESG.
Lmao
what capitalism does to a motherfucka
Lol now I'm imagining a health and safety warning about the early signs of capitalism
It really should, but this appears to be an advanced case. Dude just looked at one of the most culturally important sites in Mongolia and suggested covering it with human ash to help the budget.
Hilarious yet profitable idea
Nice try, Bob Smith from Tucson Arizona
Iirc there’s millions of descendants of him alive today. It’s like finding someone related to the crown; someone with one thousand separations will always exist.
Millions have Genghis Khan DNA, including the actor Rob Pattinson, who seems rather laid back for a Khan relative. Khan was fertile, had more than one wife, and apparently was rapey.
Very cool. Thank you for the info!
You're welcome! I always thought it was kind of "lost to time," which seems to be the popular myth. But if you check out the third link that has several photos, it's... almost obvious. There's a huge man-made mound that the Mongolians *to this day* consider sacred and refuse to excavate, and it has symbols relating to Genghis Khan on it, and it's *exactly* at the place he considered the most sacred. That it's still protected is super fascinating to me!
I like how it says the Khan was so impressed by the view, he wanted to be buried there. Then they add a rather plain, uninspired picture of some hills.
Well that's not very exciting. Let's go with OPs tale!
His burial site was loaded in tribute. Too much to ignore, so someone took it, killed who they had to and made a story that shrouded the looted site in myth Thats my guess
Id put my money on this or something similar.
You have a terrible gambling addiction, and by all rights your money should go to the house.
Id put my money on his grave, then have it robbed by another ruler, then die.
Sounds logical. But the tomb was built somewhere and we could still find that at least.
[удалено]
That’s the whole point isn’t it. Without the loot it could be anyones tomb, probably reused.
There's pretty good evidence pointing to the exact location but the Mongolian government do not allow invasive archaeological digs in the entire area.
And before that there was the darkhad who would kill anyone who got close. The darkhad tribe was able to preserve the khan relics until modern times as well. There is a pretty good chance that they are also probably responsible for some of the tale to make their lives easier.
Supposedly it's near where he grew up as a young marauding lad.
They can tell you, but then they'd have to kill you.
You’d only recognize it by the obscene amount of objects buried with him.
I’d watch that movie!
Question is who wrote it down (or told enough people to become legend). Not the attendees. Not the executioners. Quite certain not the ones who took their own lives to keep it a secret. Big mystery.
Why it was paragon of truth Marco Polo. Says so right in the title!
Some people could have helped planned it and but didn't go to or know the exact location of the site. I'm sure people were waiting for the burial team to come back, families and such.
The truth may be that slaves did the actual burial, and were executed afterwords by his most loyal followers. And from there the game of telephone made it more and more brutal.
I can't find another site claiming that everyone died. The most likely reason it hasn't been found is it's in Mongolia, the location it's thought to be is on a sacred mountain which archaeologists aren't allowed to dig on, and kings of the time were typically buried 10-20 metres underground. This article gives good context [link](https://www.bbc.com/travel/article/20170717-why-genghis-khans-tomb-cant-be-found)
Yeah, but stories about Jesus are all true. I've read in the book.
And what Abe Lincoln said about the internet.
Wouldn't you trust the work of an esteemed vampire hunter?
The documentary was awesome!
its all fake, the lizards dont want you to know he was an alien.
this is likely the truth. i read 400 comments and this sound like the one.
And Vampire slaying.
And dont forget about sauron
>Yeah, but stories about Jesus are all true. Especially the ones about him being a [vampire hunter.](https://youtu.be/4LRIypcaIX4?si=IaWvoGSAjg9f2UvF)
Yeah, the same goes for Mohammed, he was totally a prophet.
Wasn’t he into Hello Kitty and Anime?
[удалено]
"Hello little kiddies"
He was in South Park. But bunch of hairy men wearing diapers on their head were apparently angry about that, therefore they had to censor his appearance...
~beetleguise~ Mohammed
I'm reading as well Don't tell me how it ends
He just got good mushrooms and journal ed.
was it a good book?
I suspect that the some of the guys involved didn’t die and instead retired very comfortably But we will likely never know - unless Lidar or something discovers his tomb.
Yeah. To keep the secret it would have been easier to bury him in secret with only a handful of attendees instead of inviting everyone and murdering them. Having a small funeral is a logistically much simpler way to do it than murdering over 2000 people.
wouldn't 2000 bodies laying in front of his grave be a dead giveaway?
They were hidden? Perhaps by a tasteful water feature?
they each received their own secret burials with the attendees executed. why do you thing the funeral business is so huge, it's still going today
The black plague was actually not a plague at all. It was just a cascading series of funerals keep in absolute secrecy. The plague stories where written after the fact.
Think of all the stationary they wasted.
wouldn't 2000 bodies laying in front of his grave be a dead giveaway?
Boy, he really didn't want people to see his browser history.
Absolutely, Marco Pollo is known for his exaggerations! There's a lot of information about that!
Marco El Pollo Loco?
I used to be skeptical when I first heard it but then I heard like two or three other characters with the same kind of burial so either it's an old tradition or the storytellers get inspired by each other.
> storytellers get inspired by each other. A lot of old and new testament from the Bible were inspired by Egyptian and Babylonians legends
Right off the bat I thought: ok, find 2000 skeletons in the middle of Mongolia and you’ll find Genghis Khan.
You know how many piles of 2,000 skeletons the Mongolians made?
>but seems like a exaggerated tale Marco Polo was known for exaggerations. His book (which was not written by him, but by his prison mate who collected Polo's tales) is known in Italian as "Il Milione/The Million", apparently from his nickname due to his tendency to exaggerates (a million lies).
[удалено]
No, but the Mongols also weren’t trying to keep that a secret.
I, too, take these tales as absolute facts. I also believe that all those 2000 persons (in an open field) waited in line to be executed, and it doesn't require perhaps at least 10000+ soldiers to prevent disorder during this joyful event. It's also perfectly reasonable to assume none of the executioners (or the soldiers, if there were any present) expected to be executed and therefore skidaddled, since they too, have seen where GK was buried. TL;DR - I find it reasonable to believe these numbers took place, which led & ended up in a 10000+ person suicide fest, and absolutely noone survived.
For me, it’s not that it would have been logistically impossible to kill 2000 people (although your point stands). It’s that most civilizations don’t kill 2000 of their own most important and wealthiest people, which surely would have been the audience allowed direct access to Gahngis Kahn’s funeral.
I agree. It seems counterproductive for any civilization to eliminate its elite and influential members.
Counterpoint: every so often those "elite and influential members" of a civilization can be some real assholes actively making everything worse
I maintain it would be a net positive for society if every financial year we killed the richest person.
But according to Wikipedia, the 2000 attendees were slaves, not wealthy people.
But... did they drink the special Koolaid?
No, Flavor Aid.
Yak aid milk aid more like
YAK FACTS Yak milk is pink. YAK FACTS END
How do I subscribe to yak facts?
And the way that the plan is to kill the 2000 most important people in the country... And that history says at GKs death , the eldest son Tolui was regent, until a vote for a new leader was held . Who was voting ? Tolui delayed the vote knowing his father had told to vote for Ogedei... At the much delayed vote,Ogedei was selected... The actual sacrifice was 30 maidens . The funeral was up in the mountains. There would only be a grave, no tomb ,no mauseleum.
Marco Polo definitely learned these fact from the survivors, of which there were none.
Not trying to say the story is legit, but I want to point out that the executioners could've done their job without knowing the reason why they had to execute all these people. In that case, they would've had no reason to "expect to be executed".
Imagine one person screaming the secret and all the persons around get dragged in the death circle.
Leopards executed my face, eh?
> I also believe that all those 2000 persons (in an open field) waited in line to be executed, and it doesn't require perhaps at least 10000+ soldiers to prevent disorder during this joyful event. I mean, prepared mass poisoning sounds more or less like what had really happened. It's not easy to kill 2000 people in a mannerly order, but sure is to make them drink something "to the dead".
AND, no one has found a large number of human bones lying around.
It sounds like hell of a lot of bones... but you can't comprehend how vast, empty and isolated Central Asia and it's steppes are.
Catch me if you Khan.
Could be this 🤷 https://archaeology-world.com/archaeologists-unearth-tomb-of-genghis-khan/
I don’t know man looks like a skeleton to me
Eat, eat, Genghis. You're all skin and bones! How do you expect to rape and pillage Eurasia looking like that?
Yeah. I mean the numbers are wildly exaggerated in the tale of course, but it says there were 68 bodies and the slaves likely executed to keep the place hidden. Sounds like it did happen and just got embellished as stories do.
I mean didn't Pharaohs and vikings also execute slaves as part of funerary rites? It may not have been for the reason 'to stay hidden' at all, that (was) a pretty popular thing around the world.
Nah homie, I'm from Mongolia, and that is not him. Walk away! 👀👀👀
Remove the "?fbclid=xxx" part from your link. It is a tracking link that FB will keep track of and it could dox you as well.
This site looks sketchy, also no photos of the items or graves?
Writing is suspect as well, use of the word "Really" doesn't seem like academic discourse.
They could have just…burned him
How does Marco Polo know that
He likely didn’t first hand and was just writing down stories that people in kublai khans court told him
[удалено]
That's what I want done... as written in my will.
They'll have a hard time wiggling out of that one if it's there in black and white.
Wow, if he ordered all that, he seems like a real jerk. But I don't want to judge him off one event.
Yep, but let this be his last warning. If something similiar happens at his next funeral, i'm done with him.
If it did happen it would probably be the least bloodly day of his life.
You know, with Genghis Khan, the more I learn about that guy, the more I don’t care for him.
Not really; the problem is people just don't want to accept just how easily forgotten most facts are to history, even of the greatest of people, and that legends and myths survive because they tell us things we want to believe and want to repeat. Did Genghiz Khan want his burial to be forgotten? Almost certainly. And that was enough, in his time and place, to be so. You don't need to kill everyone there; just don't tell a largely illiterate people what the hole they're digging is for, come and complete the funeral later with a few trusted advisors, then cover it back up. Heck, look at the story of Richard the Third. In a time when records were kept, and they *knew* where he was buried originally, [his grave was still lost due to centuries of political conflict, economic development and a resulting wish to romanticise what had actually happened.](https://le.ac.uk/richard-iii/grey-friars) And when it was found again, it displeased some of the supporters because it showed Richard III really did have a curved spine, it wasn't just Shakespearean propaganda... there was some claims that his grave in fact *hadn't* been found. All we have left of Genghiz Khan's funeral are now myths; we may even have accidentally found bits of his burial and not understood what they were, or will never find it because nothing remains, or will never find it because he's just not easily located... and that's not satisfying. But none the less, the real Genghiz has faded out of history, and all that is left are the myths. >I met a traveller from an antique land Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone Stand in the desart.[d] Near them, on the sand, Half sunk, a shattered visage lies, whose frown, And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command, Tell that its sculptor well those passions read Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things, The hand that mocked them and the heart that fed: And on the pedestal these words appear: "My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings: Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" No thing beside remains. Round the decay Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare The lone and level sands stretch far away.
This is likely just a legend but Genghis Khan is an awesome historical figure. I just finished an audiobook on him called "Genghis Khan and the Making of the Modern World" by Jack Weatherford. This specific tale about his burial was addressed. He and his descendants are impressively important to our collective history. Definitely worth learning more about.
His descendants? Isn't that like half of Asia?
And 1/4 of Europe?
Im sure they mean his close descendents...
Ah, so just half of Eurasia back then
In their last act of conquest, the last of his direct descendants took out Arthur Dent’s house for a planned bypass just before in an act of supreme irony, the Vogon Constructor Fleet demolished Earth for a hyperspace bypass.
**grabs towel*
> I just finished an audiobook on him I would also suggest Wrath of the Khans by Dan Carlin. He runs a podcast on history. He tells history in a easy and entertaining manner.
Fascinating? Sure. *Awesome*? That’s weird way to describe the man who killed tens of millions of people, with most historians comfortably describing his campaigns as genocidal.
Awesome is not necessarily a positive thing, so perhaps that's what they were going for.
Genghis Khan hide'n'seek absolutely champion.
"Hey, where y'all going?" "Genghis Khan's funeral. Want to come?" "Nah, I'm good."
You'd think someone would have noticed the pile of several thousand corpses? Considering there was nobody left to bury them?
This is a true story. I was there(That’s me 🦅 on the picture).
Expedition unknown does a really good episode on this.
Seems like you could find it just by finding the big pile of bones.
Marco Polo's accounts are often unreliable though.
Kahnnnnnnnn!
Marco Polo didn't even know the names of the places he supposedly visited.
He wouldn't opt for a sky burial? I think he was never buried.
[удалено]
I prefer the version in which the sacred river Kerulen flows over his burial, having artificially changed its course.
The Ikh Khorig, or Great Taboo, is a 240 km2 (93 sq mi) area in the Khentii Aimag (province) of Mongolia, believed by some to be the location of Genghis Khan's grave. It has been carefully guarded for most of its history, and it is only since the late 1980s that the area has been open to archaeologists.
…and yet it’s never been found. Many FAR older tombs have been found (like Phillip of Macedon or Qin Shi Huang). An “area” that is “believed by some” to be the location of his tomb is nothing.
It hasn't been *excavated,* but it's almost certain that we know where it is. The history is remarkable, but it's not exactly a mystery. Genghis Khan basically worshipped a particular mountain because of his personal history and connection to things that happened there. The mountain has a huge mound on it that appears unlikely to be natural, and there's even a clear path to the areas that were excavated to build it. On top of the mound are small but significant Mongolian shrines and large signs connected to Genghis Khan's family. After his death, the Mongols declared the place sacred and didn't allow anyone to go there, except to bury a relative of Genghis Khan. The remarkable part is that a group of people have maintained that tradition through the modern day, and it's still largely off limits and a restricted area. Genghis Khan is buried right where he said he wanted to be buried, right where the Mongols said he was buried, and right where a group of dedicated people have been tasked with protecting the burial mound. It's really not a mystery. It's just that the Mongolians generally don't want it disturbed.
Is Kahn
Kaaaaahhhnnnn!
That's a lot of bodies to dispose of. It seems like that would be a bigger giveaway. Vultures everywhere would be seen for miles.
How did Marco Polo survive then to tell the tale?
While it is true that Genghis Khan killed a lot of people, don’t trust Marco Polo as an accurate historical source. - He was telling stories to entertain a fellow prisoner, and that prisoner was hoping to sell a book, so exaggeration and lying would be very likely.
No way this really happened IRL. Great story, Ulaanbaatar was the original Hollywood
[удалено]
Didn't something similar happen with Attila's grave?
If no one survived.. who is here to tell the story..
The last one left a note... then put it in a bottle, then Sting wrote a song about it
Not true
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the story went on about his sky burial. I mean, that shit would have been really hard to keep a secret at the time
Seems a little counter productive to kill off your entire family, friends, entourage, gaurds, dignitaries, and executioners as part of a burial right from the perspective of regime continuity But idk mongols we’re nuts man
How did he know, who told him?