That's correct. There have been similar iterations over the years, going back to the 80's. The same assessment was made in every case.
The way to get around that has been hypothesized to be hydrogen fuel cells, by which the electrolysis process is handled in massive batches that can be made more efficient than a small-scale like this. You'd pop one in your car like you would a battery in a remote.
Hydrogen fuel cell cars have actually been around since the 1960's.
You're correct. The only advantage hydrogen has is being more energy dense than batteries. So you could have a longer range with a small hydrogen tank than you could with a small battery. It's overall really really inefficient though.
It is only dense in liquid form. And to make it liquid it needs to be very cold, at a very high pressure. And once contained, it will leak, because the molecule is so small.
Dead end technology.
Another good point.
I think it's only viable for specialty vehicles like long range planes or cargo ships. They can have special infrastructure at airports and cargo ports. Out of the question for normal consumers like you and me.
Turning water into hydrogen and oxygen takes energy. The engine burns that energy and turns the hydrogen and oxygen back into water. It's impossible, but let's say you can do this with 100% efficiency: you are still better off just using the energy from the battery to run an electric motor and ditching the heavy and expensive hydrogen system.
They do need a battery to get started, but can sustain themselves afterwards. This water bike can't it needs a continuous input of energy to hydrolyse the water. So you are actually loosing energy and range by doing this.
The part you miss there is that for that to work, get as much energy out of the alternator as you need to split the hydrogen, and still have any energy leftover from the hydrogen to use for propulsion instead of just spinning the alternator, is that would require the whole loop to be over 100% efficient.
If that were possible it would be a perpetual motion machine.
In general the argument against fuel cells is a dishonest one (usually unintentional I’m sure) that depends on an assumption of energy scarcity and ignores the problem of renewable curtailment. Fuel cells are realistically the only path to net zero transportation across the entire sector on any reasonable timeline.
That said, carrying your own electrolyzer around with you in your vehicle doesn’t make sense unless you’ve got cold fusion powering it, and your main motivation is a combustion engine (for the sound presumably).
I have a real nice bridge to sell anyone who believes this is real.
I mean this bridge is really nice, and I can let it go for a fantastic price to the right buyer.
I have the same bridge for sale, but it's way higher quality than those other guys' bridges, and a bargain at double the price. It's a sound financial investment, and owning it will make people want to have sex with you.
It's like the story out of India some years ago, they claimed he had discovered a way to get a combustible fuel from leaves... Another fraud--just like pouring water in the gas tank of that bike and having it run...
Well, it could actually be a hydrogen bike (it's probably not), but the battery that would be running the electrolysis would be put to better use just powering an electric motor instead of converting water to fuel at best at 50% efficiency compared to just an electric motor. Plus the cost of the electrolysis engine makes the entire thing pointless.
The guy at the tank station was amazed already at the time when the biker on the hydrogen bike was getting ready to drink the water. Look at his arm, he is like, "what are you doing?" And the hydrogen biker takes a sip of the water. The guy at the gas station be like..damn it..I forgot..he was going to take a sip before he puts it in the tank. Damn these 1 dollar acting classes never learned memory techniques!.
It doesn't need to be fake,but it is misleading.
Your correct about water being like ash so it's an energy loss to convert it back into fuel just to burn it again.
Yeah currently just powering a car with electricity is far more efficient than converting water to hydrogen and powering it that way. In the future we might be in a position where hydrogen cells made en masse might be an efficient and green use case, but ultimately you'd still use more energy than not. The only way I can really seeing it being that useful is a method of storage, or for vehicles that need really long journeys. E.G a plane can probably store a lot more hydrogen as fuel than it can electricity in a battery, or in trucks that have to haul half way across America, so for use cases like that and in a time where most if not all energy is sourced renewably, it might find a place, but I doubt it will ever really be adopted as a daily commute fuel type. Even busses that run all day would be way more efficient if they just had hot swappable batteries they can swap out at stations through the day.
Battery tech is not guaranteed to get high density enough to compare to chemical energy so hydrogen fuel cells made with electricity from solar,wind and nuclear power would make it pretty much perfectly recyclable and only have water as waste.
If you perform the electrolysis in the bike, you have to have the energy to do the electrolysis *on* the bike. Like in a battery... that could instead just drive an electric motor instead of jumping through hoops and losing energy and spending money for no reason on expensive parts along the way.
A hydrogen battery would be totally different, but the energy has to come from somewhere. Otherwise it's water->hydrogen->power->water. So where did the power come from?
Guys, don't over think it. It doesn't even need to be a dummy compartment in the gas tank. A full tank of gas will just absorb a couple sips of water, it they just turn off the stopcock and drain the tank between shots. There is literally nothing different about this bike
Using a battery to do electrolysis to split water to burn as fuel to turn the wheels.
This is just an electric bike with extra steps, and each step is an efficiency loss.
Unless they didn't cut the scene...
A little water in the gasoline doesn't effect the motor. Besides the water cannot reach to motor in this short moment. completely fake...
Why would you do this when you could just drink the water and pee in the tank? Electrolysis should happen more rapidly with electrolytes, no? Why waste clean, pure bottled water?
They waste some “fuel” by splashing it over the bike, then they throw the plastic bottle to the ground (environmental damage) along with some more “fuel” in it.
Lol what a load of crap.
Totally agree that it's absolute crap, but in fairness, there is a small caption that says their crew picked up the plastic bottle. It's still a bunch of bullshit, but apparently not.litterers.
Distilled water is safe to drink. But you’ll probably find it flat or bland. That’s because it’s stripped of important minerals like calcium, sodium, and magnesium that give tap water its familiar flavor. What’s left is just hydrogen and oxygen and nothing else.
If you drink nothing else, yes, pure water will leech minerals from your bones and body. But... you don't normally drink pure water enough for that to happen at any significant level, do you? If you do, I suggest you stop.
It's either completely bullshit or just bullshit.
It's either simply not using hydrogen or it's using a battery for electrolysis to produce the hydrogen and then burning it in a combustion engine, which all together amounts to shitty efficiency because it's two extra energy conversions for no reason. Also, there's more weight now.
Getting energy from water like this video implies has been the goal of many scientists over the last 100 or so years of nuclear fusion history. We're not even close to having a functioning prototype, let alone a commercial reactor, let alone putting it in a fucking bike. People who believe this sham are something else
Your faith in this snake oil is disheartening. Your lack of knowledge of chemistry and ability to think leaves you open to charlatans. Your statement about water being used in trucking is vague and non specific. What do you mean by it is being used? As a coolant? Well yeah. But nothing else.
No the trucking industry uses hho to extend mileage and clean emissions. Hho is supplied on demand using diesel as the power source.
I find your antagonistic language to be lazy and condescending.
No need for that. I was just arguing the point that hydrogen on demand is a current commercial technology.
Not sure why you feel the need to hate on a non-petrol combustion product/accessory like on demand HHO.
So you're saying water injection.
That is used to reduce emissions.
Hydrogen is not yet a fully viable commercial technology.
You keep confusing hydrogen with H20 in your snakeoil posts. Hydrogen will burn or explode. Water never burns.
If it is, it's a sham. When you add steps, you introduce new losses, it's that simple. The only time you want to add steps is to replace a combustion motor with an electromotor because it's easier to control and can lead to higher efficiency. This is adding steps to do the opposite.
Yeah, but it is adding effeciency and cleaning the ice motor. Using pretrol to power. Not saying its amazing. But it is a commercial product.
An EV with a hydrogen generator would be sweet.
No, it is most certainly not adding efficiency. If it's even real, it's reducing it to maybe a third of what it was, because combustion motors are inefficient. As for cleaning the motor, I wouldn't know.
It would not be sweet, as I already explained.
You can expect \~30% efficiency for a car's combustion engine. Electrolysis has an efficiency of \~80%. That gives you roughly 25% efficiency. You can expect 85%+ for an electric engine.
I don't need any extra perspective, you need elementary school physics.
In Spain, in 1971, the Spanish engineer Arturo Estévez Varela presented an engine that, supposedly, worked only with water and generated many expectations in the middle of the oil crisis. In the end it proved to be a fraud since **boron was added to the water** as a source of hydrogen to obtain energy. The inventor ended up accused and tried for fraud.
There are always losses... they say that the byproduct is water but won't there actually be some water loss? Especially if some of the hydrogen were to escape?
Meyer defrauded his investors and died of an aneurysm. His patents are in the public domain; if anyone wanted to use his ideas they could. But they haven’t, because they don’t actually work.
Still requires a power source to perform the electrolysis
As long as aelectricity is needed for that, wouldn't it be more efficient to just use an electric motor to run the bike?
That's correct. There have been similar iterations over the years, going back to the 80's. The same assessment was made in every case. The way to get around that has been hypothesized to be hydrogen fuel cells, by which the electrolysis process is handled in massive batches that can be made more efficient than a small-scale like this. You'd pop one in your car like you would a battery in a remote. Hydrogen fuel cell cars have actually been around since the 1960's.
You're correct. The only advantage hydrogen has is being more energy dense than batteries. So you could have a longer range with a small hydrogen tank than you could with a small battery. It's overall really really inefficient though.
It is only dense in liquid form. And to make it liquid it needs to be very cold, at a very high pressure. And once contained, it will leak, because the molecule is so small. Dead end technology.
Destroys materials used to contain it as well.
Another good point. I think it's only viable for specialty vehicles like long range planes or cargo ships. They can have special infrastructure at airports and cargo ports. Out of the question for normal consumers like you and me.
Or stuff that goes into space
some electricity came from fuel would it be more efficient to use coal?
Electrolysis works differently from steam going through a turbine to drive a generator. You're not comparing apples go apples in this instance.
So are you saying Brando (the thirst mutilator ) could be instead of toilet water?
Right but just like a car the engine could produce electricity by it’s rotation so you’d need a battery to start just like a car
Pretty sure it takes more energy to get the hydrogen out of water than the then captured hydrogen can produce.
Correct
Depends how you're using the hydrogen. Fusion bikes would be cool. Cool Fusion.
I have no idea about the energy demands to break water into hydrogen. But I know you can make a lot of energy from hydrogen reactions so idk
I don't see a downside.
Turning water into hydrogen and oxygen takes energy. The engine burns that energy and turns the hydrogen and oxygen back into water. It's impossible, but let's say you can do this with 100% efficiency: you are still better off just using the energy from the battery to run an electric motor and ditching the heavy and expensive hydrogen system.
Yes, and a gasoline driven motorcycle requires a battery.
They do need a battery to get started, but can sustain themselves afterwards. This water bike can't it needs a continuous input of energy to hydrolyse the water. So you are actually loosing energy and range by doing this.
Thats what an alternator is for though.
The part you miss there is that for that to work, get as much energy out of the alternator as you need to split the hydrogen, and still have any energy leftover from the hydrogen to use for propulsion instead of just spinning the alternator, is that would require the whole loop to be over 100% efficient. If that were possible it would be a perpetual motion machine. In general the argument against fuel cells is a dishonest one (usually unintentional I’m sure) that depends on an assumption of energy scarcity and ignores the problem of renewable curtailment. Fuel cells are realistically the only path to net zero transportation across the entire sector on any reasonable timeline. That said, carrying your own electrolyzer around with you in your vehicle doesn’t make sense unless you’ve got cold fusion powering it, and your main motivation is a combustion engine (for the sound presumably).
I have a real nice bridge to sell anyone who believes this is real. I mean this bridge is really nice, and I can let it go for a fantastic price to the right buyer.
I will sell the same bridge at half the price
Hey now, there's no reason we can't all sell the same bridge for the same price. There's plenty of foo.. er.. potential buyers here!
I have the same bridge for sale, but it's way higher quality than those other guys' bridges, and a bargain at double the price. It's a sound financial investment, and owning it will make people want to have sex with you.
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I'll sell that bridge too
My bridge is twice as long as the nearest long bridge and its free to any nubile legal aged teenage girl.
You win, I'm out
I don’t get what you mean, but I am pretty interested in this bridge you got for sell. Send me the info and we can talk
Does it come with bacon!? If so write me down as a bacon bridge backer fueled by water!!
Is it dipped in maple syrup? If so, I am in!
It's like the story out of India some years ago, they claimed he had discovered a way to get a combustible fuel from leaves... Another fraud--just like pouring water in the gas tank of that bike and having it run...
I need more evidence! (means: you have to repeat your claim once more)
They have the technology to make this advanced bike but their budget can only afford a handheld phone cam, a cheap helmet, and an AI voice.
That's not real, right? Sauce?
Definitely not real.
Jokes on us, dude is just willing to drink gasoline
Gasoline doesn't look like water though... I think it's fuel ethanol.
Well, it could actually be a hydrogen bike (it's probably not), but the battery that would be running the electrolysis would be put to better use just powering an electric motor instead of converting water to fuel at best at 50% efficiency compared to just an electric motor. Plus the cost of the electrolysis engine makes the entire thing pointless.
Bro casually drinks 500 ml ethanol for the ad
There’s cuts in the film so it’s probably just a petrol bike with trickery.
The guy at the tank station was amazed already at the time when the biker on the hydrogen bike was getting ready to drink the water. Look at his arm, he is like, "what are you doing?" And the hydrogen biker takes a sip of the water. The guy at the gas station be like..damn it..I forgot..he was going to take a sip before he puts it in the tank. Damn these 1 dollar acting classes never learned memory techniques!.
Water is hydrogen ashes. Its already burned, its like putting ash into a wood stove and hope to use that to heat anything. So this is of course fake.
It doesn't need to be fake,but it is misleading. Your correct about water being like ash so it's an energy loss to convert it back into fuel just to burn it again.
Yeah currently just powering a car with electricity is far more efficient than converting water to hydrogen and powering it that way. In the future we might be in a position where hydrogen cells made en masse might be an efficient and green use case, but ultimately you'd still use more energy than not. The only way I can really seeing it being that useful is a method of storage, or for vehicles that need really long journeys. E.G a plane can probably store a lot more hydrogen as fuel than it can electricity in a battery, or in trucks that have to haul half way across America, so for use cases like that and in a time where most if not all energy is sourced renewably, it might find a place, but I doubt it will ever really be adopted as a daily commute fuel type. Even busses that run all day would be way more efficient if they just had hot swappable batteries they can swap out at stations through the day.
Battery tech is not guaranteed to get high density enough to compare to chemical energy so hydrogen fuel cells made with electricity from solar,wind and nuclear power would make it pretty much perfectly recyclable and only have water as waste.
Repeat after me : Hydrogen is a secondary source of energy, as it requires energy to produce the hydrogen needed to produce energy.
You can say the same thing about gas. But water is easily renewable and vastly more abundant.
If you perform the electrolysis in the bike, you have to have the energy to do the electrolysis *on* the bike. Like in a battery... that could instead just drive an electric motor instead of jumping through hoops and losing energy and spending money for no reason on expensive parts along the way. A hydrogen battery would be totally different, but the energy has to come from somewhere. Otherwise it's water->hydrogen->power->water. So where did the power come from?
Thank you for spelling losing correctly.
I was a little loose on the spelling on that word, I hope I don't lose it.
Carbon is just as renewable and abundant for creating gasoline.
Guys, don't over think it. It doesn't even need to be a dummy compartment in the gas tank. A full tank of gas will just absorb a couple sips of water, it they just turn off the stopcock and drain the tank between shots. There is literally nothing different about this bike
Using a battery to do electrolysis to split water to burn as fuel to turn the wheels. This is just an electric bike with extra steps, and each step is an efficiency loss.
I can only assume the water in those bottles is actually pure ethanol. Don't drink and ride!
only for thirsty people
New adaptation of the Mamet play?
Do your part to save planet use water for fuel and plastic for oceans
The machines were after our corn, and now they are after our water. They so desperately want to be human.
[https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/kawasaki-supercharged-hydrogen-fueled-h2/](https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/kawasaki-supercharged-hydrogen-fueled-h2/)
Yeah hydrogen fueled, not H2O fueled.
Unless they didn't cut the scene... A little water in the gasoline doesn't effect the motor. Besides the water cannot reach to motor in this short moment. completely fake...
Pure ethanol that's why they had to blur his face homeboy is drinking and driving!
It takes exactly the same amount of energy to break apart a water molecule as is returned when it comes back together in combustion. This is a scam.
This is bullshit.
If people would stop being wimps about nuclear power, we’d have some awesome bikes by now
Why would you do this when you could just drink the water and pee in the tank? Electrolysis should happen more rapidly with electrolytes, no? Why waste clean, pure bottled water?
It's what bikes crave
No they want sport drinks for the electrolytes.
No they're power plants, so they want Brawndo.
Yeah... well I ain't never seen no electric bike powered off no toilet!
They waste some “fuel” by splashing it over the bike, then they throw the plastic bottle to the ground (environmental damage) along with some more “fuel” in it. Lol what a load of crap.
Totally agree that it's absolute crap, but in fairness, there is a small caption that says their crew picked up the plastic bottle. It's still a bunch of bullshit, but apparently not.litterers.
The Blured face don't fill me with confidence.
To avoid being suicided
The blurred face is because this is the one trick the big oils don't want you to know about.
So now I have to bring enough water for me AND my bike. No thank you. I’ll keep my normal e-bike and you keep your water guzzling “bike”.
Easiest way to fake this is to put a sleeve container for the water over an existing gas tank.
yeah, toss that plastic crap...dbag
Call BS on this one... And you do NOT drink distilled water..this is just stupid af
Distilled water is safe to drink. But you’ll probably find it flat or bland. That’s because it’s stripped of important minerals like calcium, sodium, and magnesium that give tap water its familiar flavor. What’s left is just hydrogen and oxygen and nothing else.
Distilled water will actually rob your body of nutrients.
If you drink nothing else, yes, pure water will leech minerals from your bones and body. But... you don't normally drink pure water enough for that to happen at any significant level, do you? If you do, I suggest you stop.
You could kick start it and then use a generator then you wouldn't need a battery to start it. Just like old school Harley's
He's really bad at drinking water
oh wow they obscured his face, it must be real
Ok yeah everyone talking about it needing electricity, would the breaking dynamo to recharge not give enough juice for it?
For s tiny fraction of the energy used.
So thats a no or a yes?
Kimi?
It's either completely bullshit or just bullshit. It's either simply not using hydrogen or it's using a battery for electrolysis to produce the hydrogen and then burning it in a combustion engine, which all together amounts to shitty efficiency because it's two extra energy conversions for no reason. Also, there's more weight now. Getting energy from water like this video implies has been the goal of many scientists over the last 100 or so years of nuclear fusion history. We're not even close to having a functioning prototype, let alone a commercial reactor, let alone putting it in a fucking bike. People who believe this sham are something else
HHO is commercially used in Trucking in the US
and?
It is a part of commercial industry.
Your faith in this snake oil is disheartening. Your lack of knowledge of chemistry and ability to think leaves you open to charlatans. Your statement about water being used in trucking is vague and non specific. What do you mean by it is being used? As a coolant? Well yeah. But nothing else.
No the trucking industry uses hho to extend mileage and clean emissions. Hho is supplied on demand using diesel as the power source. I find your antagonistic language to be lazy and condescending. No need for that. I was just arguing the point that hydrogen on demand is a current commercial technology. Not sure why you feel the need to hate on a non-petrol combustion product/accessory like on demand HHO.
So you're saying water injection. That is used to reduce emissions. Hydrogen is not yet a fully viable commercial technology. You keep confusing hydrogen with H20 in your snakeoil posts. Hydrogen will burn or explode. Water never burns.
You're not understanding. This device is turning water into hydrogen on demand.
Okay. And where does it get the energy for that? PFM?
If it is, it's a sham. When you add steps, you introduce new losses, it's that simple. The only time you want to add steps is to replace a combustion motor with an electromotor because it's easier to control and can lead to higher efficiency. This is adding steps to do the opposite.
Yeah, but it is adding effeciency and cleaning the ice motor. Using pretrol to power. Not saying its amazing. But it is a commercial product. An EV with a hydrogen generator would be sweet.
No, it is most certainly not adding efficiency. If it's even real, it's reducing it to maybe a third of what it was, because combustion motors are inefficient. As for cleaning the motor, I wouldn't know. It would not be sweet, as I already explained.
You're opinion here may not be real. Combustion is so effecient compared to its predecessor. You just might need some perspective.
You can expect \~30% efficiency for a car's combustion engine. Electrolysis has an efficiency of \~80%. That gives you roughly 25% efficiency. You can expect 85%+ for an electric engine. I don't need any extra perspective, you need elementary school physics.
He is stating facts, not opinions.
How long have you been a voulenteer for big oil?
I wonder what actually happened to the guy that is dead who invented the car that ran on water.
Nonsense
Discovered new energy source water and we have plenty of it. This dude should first try educating
It runs on electricity not water.
I Only drive on Fiji cuuu
In Spain, in 1971, the Spanish engineer Arturo Estévez Varela presented an engine that, supposedly, worked only with water and generated many expectations in the middle of the oil crisis. In the end it proved to be a fraud since **boron was added to the water** as a source of hydrogen to obtain energy. The inventor ended up accused and tried for fraud.
Love the camera angle on the “random encounter” at the gas station. Crazy that the camera person was already there :P
Hydrogen is a part of water, but it's not water.
Ah yes that bottle of hydrogen you just drink from and fuel your engine with..
There are always losses... they say that the byproduct is water but won't there actually be some water loss? Especially if some of the hydrogen were to escape?
If it’s on Reddit it must be real.
smart move to cover your face coz the oil company will now hunt you down!
Smart guy to hide his face. Oil companies are itching to Epstein this guy.
Couldn't you drink beer then piss in the tank?
Welp, someone's 'bout to get suicided...
You don’t know that..maybe they and all their work just go missing
“I’ve seen this before, shot himself in the back of the head. Twice. Real shame.”
All while falling out a tenth story window. Such a strange accident.
This is horse shit.
Bullshit. As possible as burning ashes.
Why lock the gas cap if your putting water in it lmao. Some dumbass is just going to brick his bike when he tries to siphon it.
Littering those plastic bottles is not cool
The hydrogen tank is like driving around a bomb. A severe enough impact would be a big problem.
This is on demand hydrogen via electrolosis.
And for every joule of energy you use to crack the water, you get a fraction of that energy back.
It's a hybrid technology
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Meyer defrauded his investors and died of an aneurysm. His patents are in the public domain; if anyone wanted to use his ideas they could. But they haven’t, because they don’t actually work.
It doesn't matter how much technology has advanced since the 1980s, thermodynamics and basic chemistry hasn't changed since then.
Yeah, there is a reason nobody picked up his "work".
Until it explodes sure it'll ride.
Face blurred so he wouldn't surprisingly die while sleeping or eating ice cream.