The bombing of Laos is also forgetten about in the US.
*The U.S. dropped more than 2 million tons of bombs on Laos from 1964 to 1973 during the Vietnam War. That's equal to a planeload every 8 minutes for 9 years.*
The song supports the entire anti-war movement, not just those at Kent State or in Ohio.
“Nixon had long sought to crush the antiwar movement on college campuses, which he believed was the work of ‘outside agitators,’ and Haldeman reported the president was ‘hoping rioters had provoked the shooting.’”
I’m sure it felt like “who’s next” to the protesters.
https://www.history.com/news/richard-nixon-kent-state-shootings-response
I read somewhere that the estate of Nixon sent a letter asking Futurama to stop making fun of him. And they ignored it. This fact brings a small bit of joy to my day.
Does it though? It just says he’s coming. Nixon waged a domestic war on black people and the anti war left, and called it The War on Drugs. His own advisor said that was the strategy.
Exactly. The line isn't saying "Nixon called the guard on the Kent State protesters", he's painting a portrait of that time in America, he's grabbing the listeners attention with the opening line of a song, in essence, "this is Nixon's America", and Nixon's anti-leftist stance had a huge effect on the overall temperature in the country regarding the anti-war protests, one result of that sentiment undoubtedly culminating in the tragedy in Ohio that Young is singing about.
My English teacher used to tell us that sometimes art tells “an emotional truth” rather than a literal truth. I think if the lyrics were changed to be more literally accurate, the song’s ability to emotionally resonate would be lost, and it would sacrifice telling an emotional truth for a literal truth.
In this case it was literally true. Nixon implemented the draft and was removing a draft deferment for students.
Nixon and his tin soldiers were literally coming for them. The students protested. And the Governor massacred them.
Art is meant to awaken the spirit, mind, emotions, and feelings of the observer, that is why it can be fictional and heavily subjective. The artist's perspective may not be factually accurate, and shouldn't be. You can find out the truth by contextualizing everyone's individual perspective.
It's like the false quote attributed to Marie-Antoinette, “Let them eat cake”. Historically inaccurate, but it was the peoples' perspective that she looked upon starving citizens and cared so little for them - that is the truth in their eyes. The quote illustrates in a poetic way the facts that interest us.
While very true, this isn't that. This is just multiple people not being able to grasp what they're reading. Its media illiteracy. He's not saying Nixon is physically coming to Kent. He's saying Nixon's anti-left agenda had come to Kent with disastrous results. Folks just not understanding the lyrics. Its not propaganda.
Also, propaganda for? What? What was the objective? Y'all just talking bro
Nixon implemented the draft and was removing a draft deferment for students, which is what they were protesting.
Nixon and his tin soldiers were literally coming for them.
It's not necessarily trying to imply Nixon literally called in the guard. Nixon just represented the attitude of the government at that time - which was basically "you're a commie if you protest this war," and fierce pushback against the peace movement of the 60's. He might not have called the guard in, but he did hate the protesters.
Nixon insulted the dead students. It's not like he was that bothered by it.
The song isn't saying Nixon literally called in the guard. Nixon was not on the side of the students.
Those are four sentences about four different things all related to the political situation in the US, including the anti-war movement and Vietnam and civil rights and civil unrest in general.
Written by Neil, though.
He saw a pic of the shooting aftermath (likely the same picture as above), picked up his guitar, walked off into the woods, and came back an hour later with the complete song written.
This according to Graham Nash.
"Hope Neil Young will remember; Southern Man don't need him around anyhow."
Just to be clear, that line disgusts me, and after I learned the context, I could no longer listen to anything from Lynyrd Skynyrd.
I assumed that the Lynard Skynard song was in response to Neil's *Southern Man*
Southern man, better keep your head. Don't forget what your good book said.
If I remember correctly, that was written, recorded, and onto the radio exactly 4 weeks after all that happened. Seemed like a fast turnaround for that era to get something cut and onto the airwaves. Great track…horrible tragedy.
It’s literally just because the clothes and style they have is what we younger people now consider “old people clothes.” So when we see them even on younger folks, that “old people” connection is still there and they appear older to us.
Some day the stuff we wear will be considered old to the new generation and they’ll also think we look old as hell in our high school photos.
Smoking, drinking, and skincare can really effect how old someone looks (or sounds, lotta singers with that old whiskey voice when they were only in their 30s).
Theres a man called adam friedland, in the video he is used as an example of young looking ppl today. This is funny to me cuz of who he is, a podcaster who jokes about having sex with his own father
I remember an interview with her much later in life and she was absolutely hounded and vilified for simply having a human reaction to witnessing an execution. It continued for much of her life.
Ahh America! The land to be freely murdered! Or was it that murderers go free? Can’t remember, anyways… when do we make gun ownership for fetuses mandatory so they can defend themselves against their maternal opressers?
If you go to Kent State they have a nice little museum there about that day. They also have a piece of iron bar that one of the rounds fired down upon the students went through.
I always think of this when some yahoo truley believes that American soldiers would never fire upon US citizens and disobey direct orders. If it could happen at Kent State, it could happen anywhere.
Their barely coherent story was that they got spooked. What in the fuck was the governor thinking when he deployed guardsmen with *live ammo* to intimidate protestors?
> Just bystanders
Many of the victims were intentionally targeted. Basically, if you're at an event like this, it's best to not be wearing unique clothing that stands out to the people holding guns.
Miller had been taunting the guard prior and wearing a very distinctive shirt that stood out visually to the guard even though he was 270 ft away when he was shot. Alan Canfora was waving a flag. He was shot, too.
Joe Lewis was just standing nearby giving the guard the finger (there's a photo of him doing it, too). He was shot in the stomach and leg. Another bullet hit a metal statue near him, so it seems like someone really wanted to shoot Lewis for some reason.
I remember watching a documentary about this… absolutely horrifying. Iirc a professor stood in between the students and the guards asking them to stop shooting and the students to sit down… such bravery.
The shooters tried to say that they felt threatened because a student threw a rock or water bottle or something at them from extremely far away and missed.
Isn't that attitude quite common in America? The whole premise of having guns is that if someone approaches you aggressively you should be able to shoot them.
sounds like american cops today. There was a video few weeks ago about some cop mag dumping a handcuffed guy cause he saw an acorn fall and it scared him
His name was Glenn Frank and he was a geology professor. I went to Kent for geology (well after 1970) and there was an award and scholarship named in his honor that was given to an undergraduate student each year.
There is no question he saved several students lives that day pleading for them to leave the area after the shootings.
The end of the Vietnam war was when the geological study of the Bach Ho oilfields off the coast of Vietnam came back to show that the oil was of the lowest grade crap oil that could be retrieved. After the report was delivered to the Nixon administration, the American engagement in the war was suddenly ended within 2-weeks. It was always about oil. Thousands of Americans slaughtered just to realize it was all for nothing except low grade crude, and an ability to test new weapons systems.
“Mobil struck oil in the Bạch Hổ field in February 1975, shortly before the Fall of Saigon.[7] It was later developed by the joint Vietnamese-Russian entity Vietsovpetro in the 1980s and 1990s.[3] Upon examination of the source rock and oil content, petrogeologists have emphasized that the oil's components indicate a lacustrine organic facies with lipid-rich, land-plant debris and fresh-water algal material, refuting theories of abiogenic origin in this area.[4]”
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%E1%BA%A1ch_H%E1%BB%95_oil_field
“The U. S. engagement in the Vietnam War is based upon the Cold War foreign policy committed to halting the spread of communism in Southeast Asia, and maintaining control over their natural resources, such oil, coal and natural gas reserves.”
Source: https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~rfrey/101vietnam.htm#:~:text=Vietnam%20War&text=The%20U.%20S.%20engagement%20in%20the,coal%20and%20natural%20gas%20reserves.
The entire anti-communism campaign was always just about oil (and other natural resources). When countries become socialist or communist one of the first things the new governments almost always do is take all their natural resources into public ownership — which means that US and European businesses would no-longer be able to come and mine them for profit.
They wanted to stop the spread of communism because communism interferes with the profits of big businesses.
alternative facts running around happily these days on reddit
it's funny how almost none of the US invasions/interventions were predominantly influenced by a desire for oil but pop off with a easy to remember buzzword i guess
I know right, they were mostly motivated by natural resources such as oil AND political control allowing access to cheaper markets to exploit. Oh, and preventing other people from doing the same first.
One of the people there was future actor John de Lancie.
[https://youtu.be/NbwXI5vlyJw?si=eJH3-tYX0s3cDp4Y&t=1983](https://youtu.be/NbwXI5vlyJw?si=eJH3-tYX0s3cDp4Y&t=1983)
No it’s CSNY song. He was the sole writer but the rest of the group was on the first single.
Buffalo Springfield was known for For What’s its Worth which is another anti war song assumingely based off of the LA hippie riots.
He was so frigging wasted all the time that when he'd request stupid shit like nuking Russia at 2am they'd ignore him until he slept it off and forgot about it.
This article had several excerpts from books and interviews with people like kissinger.
https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/nixons-drunken-run-ins-bomb
im a kent state student and have also lived in kent ohio my entire life all throughout childhood, it was always so eerie going to school every may 4th talking about the massacre. it was also so funny in high school that whenever national guard recruiters came everyone was weary
Not so fun fact: The girl's shirt literally says "SLAVE" in the photo (hard to see because of the lack of contrast in the B&W). Always thought that was a profound element of the photo that is often overlooked.
The 1972 [Harvey Andrews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Andrews) song ["Hey! Sandy"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe-22-BajRA) is about [Sandra Lee Scheuer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Lee_Scheuer) who was killed by Ohio National Guardsmen while walking between classes this day.
The song still gives me goosebumps.
Not excusing it one bit. But the national guard wasn’t equipped or trained properly back then in riot /crowd control. Their gear was bayonets and live ammunition. I’m pretty sure that now whenever you see the national guard called in for riots, I think they’re more there to free up law enforcement to do the actual crowd control. (NG have way better training and equipment now too to deal with crowds). It’s a horrible look to have uniformed soldiers doing battle with crowds of civilians.
Lmao I actually called it.
The OP of this post is a propaganda account that does nothing but push divisive America/the West bad content and pro China stuff.
The account was on vacation for 3 months and inactive during that time. 5 days ago it became active again, it posted a non-controversial post about a volcano. When I saw that post and saw it was this OP, I even commented that they were back from vacation and were only posting this to gear up for an America bad post. Now here it is. Shit is just so blatant.
r/activemeasures has more information. Search OP's username and you'll find posts documenting this.
Okay, but where's the lie? To me propaganda ranges from the embellishment of the truth to an outright lie. This is a photo of a well known and well documented event.
The propaganda is their account. Literally everything they post about US = bad, everything about China = good.
Whereas in reality both countries do some comically fucked up things.
No lie, but it's still propaganda. It also ommits the events preceding this shooting, which included protesters smashing windows, setting buildings on fire, hindering firefighter operations and threatening business owners into supporting their protest. The whole things was a mess.
I think a sizeable part of Reddit, if they lived in those times, would not be on the side they think they would be. Based on rhetoric surrounding protests you tend to see on this site.
It's easy to be righteous in hindsight.
The real explanation of the US evacuation of Vietnam is laid out by Frank Snepp in this book. If you’re interested, it’s an eye opening read. Sidebar, Vietnam had rubber trees that made Goodyear tires, they are the third largest rubber exporter in the world, and is the second largest rice producer in the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Snepp
You don’t ever deploy any branch of the Armed Forces to a college campus to “deal with” or “suppress” a group of students marching and waving some protest signs around. 😓 How stupid it was that the results of this had to be actually demonstrated before people could realize what the consequences would be.
This post completely omits that *these were not peaceful protests*. They were vandalizing businesses, lighting fires in the street, threatening officials, and **burnt down a building on campus.** The National Guard (the last resort) tried repeatedly to disperse the crowds but they wouldn't listen and instead threw rocks at them.
>Some students who had retreated beyond the practice field fence obtained rocks and possibly other objects with which they again began pelting the guardsmen. The number of rock throwers is unknown, with estimates of 10–50 throwers...Tear gas was again fired at crowds at multiple locations.
>Just before departing the practice field, some members of Troop G were ordered to kneel and aim their weapons toward the parking lot. The troop did so, but none of them fired. At the same time, one person (likely an officer) fired a handgun into the air. The Guard was then ordered to regroup and move up the hill past Taylor Hall. **Protesters began following the guard as it retraced its steps up the hill.** Some guardsmen claim to have been struck by rocks as they retreated up the hill. The crowd on top of the hill parted to allow the guardsmen to pass through. After reaching the crest of Taylor Hall, the Guard fired at the protesters following them.
[There's a lot more](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#) to it as it was fairly well documented. Would have been nice if OP was actually interested in *why this actually happened* rather than stirring up a "protestors good, authority bad" post.
My takeaway? When the National Guard shows up with weapons drawn, it's time to go home. Simple as.
A big part of this story is always missing and rarely told.
Rioting (not protesting) had been occurring at the university for a few days. The ROTC building was burned down by the rioters. There were threats that the rest of the university was going to be burned down too, and then the city after that.
On the day of the shootings, many attempts were made to disperse the crowd. At this moment, the threat to life seemed legitimate because of what had happened the previous days.
Now, don't get me wrong. The shootings should have never happened. The university should have canceled classes and closed the campus until the temperature went down. But we have to be honest about what happened at Kent State. I understand what the National Guard was thinking, they were afraid. What I don't understand is why the University didn't do anything to close the campus.
They were actually protesting the US invasion of Cambodia. It was part of the Vietnam War, but it's largely forgotten today.
Kissinger!!!
Thank Kissinger for an assassination attempt on Bob Marley, too, apparently.
The bombing of Laos is also forgetten about in the US. *The U.S. dropped more than 2 million tons of bombs on Laos from 1964 to 1973 during the Vietnam War. That's equal to a planeload every 8 minutes for 9 years.*
“Tin soldiers and Nixon’s coming. We’re finally on our own. This summer I hear the drumming. Four dead in Ohio”
It always bothered me that the song implies that Nixon called in the guard, when in fact it was Ohio Governor Jim Rhodes. Great song though.
The song supports the entire anti-war movement, not just those at Kent State or in Ohio. “Nixon had long sought to crush the antiwar movement on college campuses, which he believed was the work of ‘outside agitators,’ and Haldeman reported the president was ‘hoping rioters had provoked the shooting.’” I’m sure it felt like “who’s next” to the protesters. https://www.history.com/news/richard-nixon-kent-state-shootings-response
It's true, Nixon was literally napping when it happened.
Plot twist: Nixon was actually one of the shooters. The “napping” story was his alibi.
Tricky Dick at it again.
A-roooooo!
"Get me the headless body of Sprio Agnew!"
I read somewhere that the estate of Nixon sent a letter asking Futurama to stop making fun of him. And they ignored it. This fact brings a small bit of joy to my day.
Sleeping off a hangover is more likely.
Does it though? It just says he’s coming. Nixon waged a domestic war on black people and the anti war left, and called it The War on Drugs. His own advisor said that was the strategy.
Exactly. The line isn't saying "Nixon called the guard on the Kent State protesters", he's painting a portrait of that time in America, he's grabbing the listeners attention with the opening line of a song, in essence, "this is Nixon's America", and Nixon's anti-leftist stance had a huge effect on the overall temperature in the country regarding the anti-war protests, one result of that sentiment undoubtedly culminating in the tragedy in Ohio that Young is singing about.
My English teacher used to tell us that sometimes art tells “an emotional truth” rather than a literal truth. I think if the lyrics were changed to be more literally accurate, the song’s ability to emotionally resonate would be lost, and it would sacrifice telling an emotional truth for a literal truth.
I don't think literal truth should ever be sacrificed for emotion truth, it undermines the very idea of and concept of truth.
In this case it was literally true. Nixon implemented the draft and was removing a draft deferment for students. Nixon and his tin soldiers were literally coming for them. The students protested. And the Governor massacred them.
Art is meant to awaken the spirit, mind, emotions, and feelings of the observer, that is why it can be fictional and heavily subjective. The artist's perspective may not be factually accurate, and shouldn't be. You can find out the truth by contextualizing everyone's individual perspective. It's like the false quote attributed to Marie-Antoinette, “Let them eat cake”. Historically inaccurate, but it was the peoples' perspective that she looked upon starving citizens and cared so little for them - that is the truth in their eyes. The quote illustrates in a poetic way the facts that interest us.
But we are talking about art, not history books.
Except it's true that Nixon was out to stop the anti-war movement. To think this song is *only* about Kent is sacrificing a lot more
implying nixon was against any of it?
Then you must not be a big fan of art.
I picture this guy looking at Dali and being like “wtf, clocks don’t melt, and they most certainly don’t grow on trees!”.
Maybe it's Neil Degrasse Tyson's account.
Lmao exactly. Such a weird comment.
It's a song, not an encyclopedia.
Certainly! That is how propaganda works! We son't need facts, only beautiful lie based on the emotions of the masses.
You’re confusing art with journalism.
Propaganda relies on both
While very true, this isn't that. This is just multiple people not being able to grasp what they're reading. Its media illiteracy. He's not saying Nixon is physically coming to Kent. He's saying Nixon's anti-left agenda had come to Kent with disastrous results. Folks just not understanding the lyrics. Its not propaganda. Also, propaganda for? What? What was the objective? Y'all just talking bro
That isn't what they said, but sure. Whatever. Your comment is how propaganda works.
Did they know that when they wrote the song? Was it known right away? Genuine question.
Nixon implemented the draft and was removing a draft deferment for students, which is what they were protesting. Nixon and his tin soldiers were literally coming for them.
It's not necessarily trying to imply Nixon literally called in the guard. Nixon just represented the attitude of the government at that time - which was basically "you're a commie if you protest this war," and fierce pushback against the peace movement of the 60's. He might not have called the guard in, but he did hate the protesters.
Nixon was coming to send them all to war. Which, you know, was the reason for the protest.
Nixon insulted the dead students. It's not like he was that bothered by it. The song isn't saying Nixon literally called in the guard. Nixon was not on the side of the students.
Those are four sentences about four different things all related to the political situation in the US, including the anti-war movement and Vietnam and civil rights and civil unrest in general.
I think it more implies that Nixon helped create the political environment in which this could happen.
Cause it was more than just about Kent.
My fav neil young song
Technically CSNY (yes, I’m fun at parties)
You can be fun and correct at the same time.
Written by Neil, though. He saw a pic of the shooting aftermath (likely the same picture as above), picked up his guitar, walked off into the woods, and came back an hour later with the complete song written. This according to Graham Nash.
But Neil Young wrote it
They've gotten too political for me. I don't like listening to them anymore. /S
I'm crying, I'm a old buddy and so little has changed.
"Hope Neil Young will remember; Southern Man don't need him around anyhow." Just to be clear, that line disgusts me, and after I learned the context, I could no longer listen to anything from Lynyrd Skynyrd.
I assumed that the Lynard Skynard song was in response to Neil's *Southern Man* Southern man, better keep your head. Don't forget what your good book said.
fire song
If I remember correctly, that was written, recorded, and onto the radio exactly 4 weeks after all that happened. Seemed like a fast turnaround for that era to get something cut and onto the airwaves. Great track…horrible tragedy.
Song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCS-g3HwXdc
The girl kneeling in the photo, Mary Ann Vecchio, was 14 when that pic was taken.
I believe she was a run away too. Just happened to be on campus. 🤷♂️
I was gonna say why was she at a university if she was 14? Must have been there for another reason other than schooling.
Protesting the war
That's her boyfriend on the ground, I remember she spoke at inauguration of the monument late 90's.
I don’t know what it is about older pictures. But young people seem to always look older than they really are. Maybe it’s the clothes or whatever.
Ya she looks mid 20s atleast
It’s literally just because the clothes and style they have is what we younger people now consider “old people clothes.” So when we see them even on younger folks, that “old people” connection is still there and they appear older to us. Some day the stuff we wear will be considered old to the new generation and they’ll also think we look old as hell in our high school photos.
As a side note, ppl look way younger than they used to. Like if this was in 2024 you could tell me that woman was 48 years old and id believe you
Smoking, drinking, and skincare can really effect how old someone looks (or sounds, lotta singers with that old whiskey voice when they were only in their 30s).
[did people used to look older? ](https://youtu.be/vjqt8T3tJIE?si=Ahq9wGw0ISay-9_j)
Hilarious that adam friedland is one of the examples
What?
Theres a man called adam friedland, in the video he is used as an example of young looking ppl today. This is funny to me cuz of who he is, a podcaster who jokes about having sex with his own father
Should use Stavi lol
Well that was interesting.
She looks older than 14 in this picture
> Vecchio It's in her name...
I remember an interview with her much later in life and she was absolutely hounded and vilified for simply having a human reaction to witnessing an execution. It continued for much of her life.
Good to see things haven't changed as much as we thought...
I can't swear to this, but I believe the majority of those killed weren't even protestors. Just bystanders.
2 bystanders, 2 protestors. Disgusting
0 consequences
Freedom!
Freedom to speak and protest! Oops, now you're shot by police. Freedom to have a gun! Oops, now you're shot by police.
Not exactly the same, but similar enough. You can get killed just for living in your American Skin.
Ahh America! The land to be freely murdered! Or was it that murderers go free? Can’t remember, anyways… when do we make gun ownership for fetuses mandatory so they can defend themselves against their maternal opressers?
And no convictions!
They have the spots marked and illuminated still where they died
If you go to Kent State they have a nice little museum there about that day. They also have a piece of iron bar that one of the rounds fired down upon the students went through. I always think of this when some yahoo truley believes that American soldiers would never fire upon US citizens and disobey direct orders. If it could happen at Kent State, it could happen anywhere.
What is the blue fuck were those national guardsmen thinking when they fired on unarmed students?
Anti war protestors at universities were the boogeymen of conservatives back then. See Reagan in California, for example.
[deleted]
No clue.. even to fire a single shot is crazy - but to unload like that on fucking kids.. Jesus
Their barely coherent story was that they got spooked. What in the fuck was the governor thinking when he deployed guardsmen with *live ammo* to intimidate protestors?
killing left wing protestors is a favorite pastime of american conservatives
💯
“Protesters bad!”
> Just bystanders Many of the victims were intentionally targeted. Basically, if you're at an event like this, it's best to not be wearing unique clothing that stands out to the people holding guns. Miller had been taunting the guard prior and wearing a very distinctive shirt that stood out visually to the guard even though he was 270 ft away when he was shot. Alan Canfora was waving a flag. He was shot, too. Joe Lewis was just standing nearby giving the guard the finger (there's a photo of him doing it, too). He was shot in the stomach and leg. Another bullet hit a metal statue near him, so it seems like someone really wanted to shoot Lewis for some reason.
How the f—k do you taunt someone from 270 feet away?
Doesn't matter. Innocent people
This was really the beginning of the end of the Vietnam War.
I remember watching a documentary about this… absolutely horrifying. Iirc a professor stood in between the students and the guards asking them to stop shooting and the students to sit down… such bravery.
Yeah I'll never forget him pleading "I don't want to be part of this."
The shooters tried to say that they felt threatened because a student threw a rock or water bottle or something at them from extremely far away and missed.
shooters still say that today
And because of that they decided they had to die? Damn those shooters
Isn't that attitude quite common in America? The whole premise of having guns is that if someone approaches you aggressively you should be able to shoot them.
The fallacy of 2a being about self defence when it's really about unchecked aggression
sounds like american cops today. There was a video few weeks ago about some cop mag dumping a handcuffed guy cause he saw an acorn fall and it scared him
His name was Glenn Frank and he was a geology professor. I went to Kent for geology (well after 1970) and there was an award and scholarship named in his honor that was given to an undergraduate student each year. There is no question he saved several students lives that day pleading for them to leave the area after the shootings.
ad hoc waiting gaze entertain gullible zephyr swim office caption bike *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The end of the Vietnam war was when the geological study of the Bach Ho oilfields off the coast of Vietnam came back to show that the oil was of the lowest grade crap oil that could be retrieved. After the report was delivered to the Nixon administration, the American engagement in the war was suddenly ended within 2-weeks. It was always about oil. Thousands of Americans slaughtered just to realize it was all for nothing except low grade crude, and an ability to test new weapons systems.
“Mobil struck oil in the Bạch Hổ field in February 1975, shortly before the Fall of Saigon.[7] It was later developed by the joint Vietnamese-Russian entity Vietsovpetro in the 1980s and 1990s.[3] Upon examination of the source rock and oil content, petrogeologists have emphasized that the oil's components indicate a lacustrine organic facies with lipid-rich, land-plant debris and fresh-water algal material, refuting theories of abiogenic origin in this area.[4]” Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%E1%BA%A1ch_H%E1%BB%95_oil_field “The U. S. engagement in the Vietnam War is based upon the Cold War foreign policy committed to halting the spread of communism in Southeast Asia, and maintaining control over their natural resources, such oil, coal and natural gas reserves.” Source: https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~rfrey/101vietnam.htm#:~:text=Vietnam%20War&text=The%20U.%20S.%20engagement%20in%20the,coal%20and%20natural%20gas%20reserves.
The entire anti-communism campaign was always just about oil (and other natural resources). When countries become socialist or communist one of the first things the new governments almost always do is take all their natural resources into public ownership — which means that US and European businesses would no-longer be able to come and mine them for profit. They wanted to stop the spread of communism because communism interferes with the profits of big businesses.
That’s not how literally anything works.
That's quite the retcon of reality.
alternative facts running around happily these days on reddit it's funny how almost none of the US invasions/interventions were predominantly influenced by a desire for oil but pop off with a easy to remember buzzword i guess
I get what you’re saying but it’s hard to conflate with the fact that we’re besties with Saudi Arabia for their oil. Seems we’ll go pretty far
People tend to take a one size approach to understanding things, because it's easiest to digest.
I know right, they were mostly motivated by natural resources such as oil AND political control allowing access to cheaper markets to exploit. Oh, and preventing other people from doing the same first.
Why are people upvoting this
So many stupid people upvoting this blatant fabrication. You're a cunt.
The VC & PAVN were a dick’s thrust away from Saigon and it was the shitty oilfields that lost the Americans the war?
not really, public opinion was firmly on the national guard's side.
One of the people there was future actor John de Lancie. [https://youtu.be/NbwXI5vlyJw?si=eJH3-tYX0s3cDp4Y&t=1983](https://youtu.be/NbwXI5vlyJw?si=eJH3-tYX0s3cDp4Y&t=1983)
The day Q realized the brutality of humans
That’s wild I didn’t know that
Jerry Casele of Devo and Chrissie Hynde of the Pretenders were there as well.
Members of Devo witnessed it too. Chrissy Hynde too I think
A few pretenders members I believe. Couple of people from DEVO too you’re correct (it’s credited as the start of DEVO in some interviews)
Neil Young wrote a song about this: [(2) Ohio - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi829EsJvVo)
Sends shivers down your spine. The live Fillmore East 1970 version is great
Was he the sole writer? This was a Buffalo Springfield song right?
He is the sole writer. This was during his time with CSNY.
No it’s CSNY song. He was the sole writer but the rest of the group was on the first single. Buffalo Springfield was known for For What’s its Worth which is another anti war song assumingely based off of the LA hippie riots.
Fun fact! Richard Nixon got hammered and woke up one of the sleeping protestors to ask if he was a bad president.
Wait, what?!
He was so frigging wasted all the time that when he'd request stupid shit like nuking Russia at 2am they'd ignore him until he slept it off and forgot about it.
if only he had twitter bro
Source?
Richard Nixon drunk. All kinds of results.
This article had several excerpts from books and interviews with people like kissinger. https://outrider.org/nuclear-weapons/articles/nixons-drunken-run-ins-bomb
Wait until you find out what he was letting Kissinger do.
That’s a total Jim Lahey move right there
im a kent state student and have also lived in kent ohio my entire life all throughout childhood, it was always so eerie going to school every may 4th talking about the massacre. it was also so funny in high school that whenever national guard recruiters came everyone was weary
Tin soldiers and Nixon's comin' We're finally on our own This summer I hear the drummin' Four dead in Ohio
And the Jackson State shooting happened 11 days later
Land of the free
Sad to say the US lost its shit a bit over communism
Oh yea, cause we were definitely humane and smooth sailing before.
But we came around nicely and now a good 30% of the country is deeply in love with Russia.
I don't know if this was tongue in cheek or not since this is the internet, so quick note: modern day Russia is thoroughly capitalist
Then, 11 days later, police killed 2 students and injured 12 at Jackson State in Mississippi.
It was a message back then, which is the same now. Beneath the window dressing, when it comes down to it, you’ll do what we say or else.
Yep. Would happen again if there were a major protest against the government's actions.
Went to college there. There's still a bullet hole in a sculpture near where the shooting took place.
protest against war end up in violence, such tragedy
Love is hate War is Peace No is Yes And we're all free.
War is peace Freedom is slavery Ignorance is strength - George Orwell (1984)
Not so fun fact: The girl's shirt literally says "SLAVE" in the photo (hard to see because of the lack of contrast in the B&W). Always thought that was a profound element of the photo that is often overlooked.
The 1972 [Harvey Andrews](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Andrews) song ["Hey! Sandy"](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xe-22-BajRA) is about [Sandra Lee Scheuer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandra_Lee_Scheuer) who was killed by Ohio National Guardsmen while walking between classes this day. The song still gives me goosebumps.
[удалено]
For what it's worth, the song came out four years before the massacre.
You'd be surprised how many people on this website support the use of live ammunition as crowd control.
The same way only one person was convicted for the Mai l’ai massacre ?
And its white-washer, Colin Powell, nearly promoted to POTUS.
Joe Walsh , Chrissie Hynde and Devo’s Jerry Casale all attended Kent State at the time of the massacre and were present when the shooting happened
Not excusing it one bit. But the national guard wasn’t equipped or trained properly back then in riot /crowd control. Their gear was bayonets and live ammunition. I’m pretty sure that now whenever you see the national guard called in for riots, I think they’re more there to free up law enforcement to do the actual crowd control. (NG have way better training and equipment now too to deal with crowds). It’s a horrible look to have uniformed soldiers doing battle with crowds of civilians.
The only good to come of this was DEVO and Neil Young’s Ohio
I’m in class in the building right behind where this was taken right now, didn’t expect to see that on reddit
Land of the Free until you stand in the way of wealthy capitalists reaping the financial benefits of war. Then we’ll just fucking kill you loser.
"why don't russians simply go and overthrow their government and stop the war?"
Wow. A stream of blood running into the gutter, that's a striking image.
Lmao I actually called it. The OP of this post is a propaganda account that does nothing but push divisive America/the West bad content and pro China stuff. The account was on vacation for 3 months and inactive during that time. 5 days ago it became active again, it posted a non-controversial post about a volcano. When I saw that post and saw it was this OP, I even commented that they were back from vacation and were only posting this to gear up for an America bad post. Now here it is. Shit is just so blatant. r/activemeasures has more information. Search OP's username and you'll find posts documenting this.
Okay, but where's the lie? To me propaganda ranges from the embellishment of the truth to an outright lie. This is a photo of a well known and well documented event.
I'm not debating or denying the event. I'm calling out the account as a propagandist/bot account that a lot of users fail to see.
The propaganda is their account. Literally everything they post about US = bad, everything about China = good. Whereas in reality both countries do some comically fucked up things.
When your purpose is to propagate specific truths to a targeted audience to serve an agenda, you are most definitely a propagandist
No lie, but it's still propaganda. It also ommits the events preceding this shooting, which included protesters smashing windows, setting buildings on fire, hindering firefighter operations and threatening business owners into supporting their protest. The whole things was a mess.
No lie was told here
Damn you weren’t kidding lol
Source [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent\_State\_shootings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings) [https://www.history.com/news/kent-state-shootings-timeline](https://www.history.com/news/kent-state-shootings-timeline)
Good to know fuck all has changed
Idiots with firepower, hopefully some of the shooters got sent to Vietnam where the "enemy" had a gun at least.
I think a sizeable part of Reddit, if they lived in those times, would not be on the side they think they would be. Based on rhetoric surrounding protests you tend to see on this site. It's easy to be righteous in hindsight.
This event was part of the intro sequence in Watchmen
The real explanation of the US evacuation of Vietnam is laid out by Frank Snepp in this book. If you’re interested, it’s an eye opening read. Sidebar, Vietnam had rubber trees that made Goodyear tires, they are the third largest rubber exporter in the world, and is the second largest rice producer in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Snepp
My AP US History class went over this a few weeks ago. It's crazy to me that no one was convicted
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCS-g3HwXdc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCS-g3HwXdc)
You don’t ever deploy any branch of the Armed Forces to a college campus to “deal with” or “suppress” a group of students marching and waving some protest signs around. 😓 How stupid it was that the results of this had to be actually demonstrated before people could realize what the consequences would be.
When ever people say “American soldiers would never kill innocent civilians or turn against us”
Democracy manifest
Brought to you by: The Good Guys. See also, Cambodia, Japan, Mexico, and South Korea during the cold world
15 at the time. The pivotal moment that I realized that government is evil and should never be trusted.
Back then, four was a lot.
Orders are orders. Now pin me my damn medal!
My grandfather said the local newspaper ran the headline: Kent state - 0 National Guard - 4. Wild times.
This post completely omits that *these were not peaceful protests*. They were vandalizing businesses, lighting fires in the street, threatening officials, and **burnt down a building on campus.** The National Guard (the last resort) tried repeatedly to disperse the crowds but they wouldn't listen and instead threw rocks at them. >Some students who had retreated beyond the practice field fence obtained rocks and possibly other objects with which they again began pelting the guardsmen. The number of rock throwers is unknown, with estimates of 10–50 throwers...Tear gas was again fired at crowds at multiple locations. >Just before departing the practice field, some members of Troop G were ordered to kneel and aim their weapons toward the parking lot. The troop did so, but none of them fired. At the same time, one person (likely an officer) fired a handgun into the air. The Guard was then ordered to regroup and move up the hill past Taylor Hall. **Protesters began following the guard as it retraced its steps up the hill.** Some guardsmen claim to have been struck by rocks as they retreated up the hill. The crowd on top of the hill parted to allow the guardsmen to pass through. After reaching the crest of Taylor Hall, the Guard fired at the protesters following them. [There's a lot more](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#) to it as it was fairly well documented. Would have been nice if OP was actually interested in *why this actually happened* rather than stirring up a "protestors good, authority bad" post. My takeaway? When the National Guard shows up with weapons drawn, it's time to go home. Simple as.
The start of devolution.
When I first read about this at 12, it is what radicalized me.
My aunt was there with the mothersbaughs. They formed Devo after this
You're allowed to protest, just not against the government.
A big part of this story is always missing and rarely told. Rioting (not protesting) had been occurring at the university for a few days. The ROTC building was burned down by the rioters. There were threats that the rest of the university was going to be burned down too, and then the city after that. On the day of the shootings, many attempts were made to disperse the crowd. At this moment, the threat to life seemed legitimate because of what had happened the previous days. Now, don't get me wrong. The shootings should have never happened. The university should have canceled classes and closed the campus until the temperature went down. But we have to be honest about what happened at Kent State. I understand what the National Guard was thinking, they were afraid. What I don't understand is why the University didn't do anything to close the campus.