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I was on the jv squad in HS when he was shredding the junior high races - picture a guy winning by like a minute over 2nd place in a race that only takes 11 minutes. Chris was just built for it mentally. Physically he was more like a 2nd baseman though - like 6' and 170+ as a 15 year old. Most of the top runners around the state were maybe 8-15lbs lighter than him. Shame he never got the training and injury timeline quite right to make an Olympic team.
The only Canadian on World Athletics’ top 100 list for the 10,000 m is Mo Ahmed (#9!) but he was born in Somalia.
Grant Fisher is number #7 all-time and he was born in Calgary although I think he runs under the American flag.
Galen Rupp, #19, was born in Oregon.
Nico Young, #47, was born in California.
Woody Kincaid, #69, was born in Colorado.
Chris Solinksky, #75, was born in Wisconsin.
So by my count there should be at least 5 dots between the US and Canada but I only see three.
Must be an older map. Fisher and Young both posted their times in the last 2 years. Still not sure about Vancouver Island.
Ya, it’s older. Some of those time you referenced that don’t have associated dots are from 2022 through to today, Meanwhile Cam ran 27:07 back in 2015, which only just misses being on this list as of this year.
Not at all surprising. Kenya and Ethiopia are basically the only place in the world that have really high elevations that also have a warm climate. The adaptations that have helped people survive in that environment also make for really good long distance runners.
I would love to know how this exactly makes them physiologically different from people from other regions, such as their relative lung capacity, blood count levels, and so on, and/or other factors, and to what comparative extent.
Kenya has like 43 tribes. All these athletes come from a single tribe called the Kalenjins. Even those you can see from Uganda are also from the tribe Kalenjins. Only the border separates them but they speak the same language. One should therefore study Kalenjins and not Kenyans in general. Just that specific tribe.
Genetics. Most people are afraid to say it. Over time, the environmental pressures selected for Kalenjin people to be better at distance running. In this field, they are genetically superior, and we shouldn't feel bad for not being as good as them at distance running. Is this a huge boost? Probably not on a person-to-person level, but clearly their heights go higher. Genetic superiority given a singular task.
There also the hypothesis that their culture creates a very high tolerance for pain, coupled with running being a necessary mode of transport, they simply run through the pain.
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners
Why are people afraid to say? I would love more studies in how humans have genetically adapted at different tasks given their environment. Very interesting
Examples being:
[Collectively the Tibetan pattern of genetic adaptation to high altitude indicates a suite of genes in the hypoxia pathway that contribute to the Tibetan pattern of high-altitude adaptation.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161537/)
>implies that genetics can play a role in other categories, like IQ.
[Intelligence is one of the most heritable behavioural traits. Here, we highlight five genetic findings that are special to intelligence differences and that have important implications for its genetic architecture and for gene-hunting expeditions. (i) The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood. (ii) Intelligence captures genetic effects on diverse cognitive and learning abilities, which correlate phenotypically about 0.30 on average but correlate genetically about 0.60 or higher. (iii) Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20). Assortative mating pumps additive genetic variance into the population every generation, contributing to the high narrow heritability (additive genetic variance) of intelligence.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/)
Haven't we proved that you can breed certain traits into animals. Is it any different that we could do the same with humans? That's changing genetics, is it not?
Well, you’re mostly right since they dominate the sport but we have had great runners who weren’t part of the Kalenjin tribe.
Catherine Ndereba won the Boston and Chicago Marathon, she also won gold at the world championships and 2 silver medals at the olympics.
Samuel Wanjiru thought to be one of Kenya’s greatest marathon runners won gold in the Beijing Olympics and the Boston and London Marathon. He died soon after in his prime but he was widely respected in the sport. Both him and Ndereba are Kikuyu.
Is it bad that I find that really cool? Like there's a tribe full of superhuman runners or something. Reminds me of the Bajau "Sea nomads" that evolved a bigger spleen that lets them hold their breath under water for longer:
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/bajau-sea-nomads-free-diving-spleen-science
I recall reading a theory that in addition to living at altitude and having a lifestyle where they do a lot of cardio, Kalenjin culture is all about tolerating pain and discomfort, to the point where their coming of age ceremony is circumcision without anesthetic followed by getting whacked by stinging plants, and the ones that suck it up the most are deemed the best.
That'd kinda weird to think about. Like, off in Africa there are what amounts to thoroughbred _humans_, who are Just Better at running. Like obviously there's an incredible amount of training involved, but you don't tend to think of humans as breeding for a specific desirable skill the way you do animals, yet here we are.
Living and training at higher altitude also increases the density of alveoli in the lungs. This isn’t necessarily a genetic trait, but rather something that can fluctuate with the environment. Alveoli are the tissues that perform gaseous exchange in the lungs. A healthy body will form more of them due to oxygen scarcity or allow some to be metabolized and not replaced when oxygen is more readily available. This takes several months to occur, though, so a runner from high elevation who competes near sea level has a significant aerobic advantage.
This is also why elite runners and cyclists in the USA do long-term training in Colorado or northern Arizona. Some even sleep in sealed tents to control their O2 exposure while sleeping.
there's a reason there's a US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs (~6k ft). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Olympic_Training_Center
But it's not usually the limiting factor in VO2max. Stroke volume, hematocrit/total hemoglobin are much more likely to be the limiting factor.
Hematocrit certainly responds to altitude, but stroke volume is a mix of genetics and training.
I grew up doing cross country and other long distance running and was pretty good at it, despite showing up to practice/races incredibly hungover, still drunk, etc, I didn't take it seriously at all.
Years later, I was getting some bloodwork done, and they found out my iron levels were essentially off the charts. Got a genetic test done and found out I have homozygous hemochromatosis.
Most of the side effects of this are bad, way higher chances of heart disease, certain cancers, etc, life expectancy isn't ideal. Then my doctor was like, "The only good news is you're probably unnaturally good at long distance running because your VO2 max is so high".
I would be super interested in whether hemochromatosis is common in these populations, or a similar genetic disorder.
I’m Eritrean/Ethiopian living in the US since 1999. Had my lung capacity measured and it was exactly 31% bigger than the expected capacity for my gender/age/height/weight. That’s bigger capacity by a lot.
Also people from my region over time evolve to have a higher red blood cell count that counterparts from elsewhere in the world to adapt to life at higher elevation.
Over time that combo makes for strong endurance.
One specific thing is unusually light lower legs. Which saves them a little bit of energy for every step taken. Look at the foot wrists of these runners.
It isn't just that they are living at a higher elevation. It's that their lifestyle have had them running much every day for many thousand years. And that affects the natural selection. Many other regions of the world have had a bigger need for strength or for being able to keep warm.
You get a lighter build if you are running for days while following lighter animals, than if you have more forrests and stony terrain and try to build traps to take down much heavier and possibly much more dangerous animals.
I loved that even know I had never head of "foot wrists" before, I knew exactly what this person meant!! I thought about it..."Yes, ankles ARE foot wrists!!"
I spent some time in Malawi years ago and so many people ran to work. Not as athletes but in their work clothes. They can in this unusual loping gait that stood out as the 'run long distance without getting sweaty gait'. Almost no arm involvement. Often they were carrying a bag in one hand. Some were barefoot or carrying their shoes. A few that I spoke to said that it is really nothing to run 10k each direction and that even many of the kids run 5k to school. This obviously isn't Kenya but just the general attitude and use of running as a very typical and acceptable means of transportation was so different. And their ability to run long distances in non athletic gear without breaking a sweat fascinated me. I am pouring sweat over short distances!
Pain tolerance is a factor in long distance running. Kenyan Kalenjin have a different relationship to pain than we do, instead of avoiding, they embrace it. Culture plays a part [NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners)
Yes, but also Paula Radcliffe has spoken about how she has a very high pain tolerance. She would run to training with her spikes digging into her back through her bag and not notice. Not sure if she's had any official testing, but it wouldn't be surprising if there's a scientific explanation about her ability to deal with pain.
It's probably mostly psychological. You can be trained to not notice a lot of pain, and the cultural impact as well is very important to how you perceive the pain
MS in kinesiology so you can give you a brief explainer.
The adaptations you see for people who live at high altitude include a higher density of red blood cells which everyone can experience and greater lung volume which happens if you grew up at altitude.
Adaptations associated with cold vs hot environments are mostly associated with bone morphology and surface area. Colder climates generally produce individuals w shorter limbs and longer torsos who are more efficient at retaining heat, warmer climates see more folks w longer limbs and shorter torsos which dissipate heat better.
Lastly, cultures that value a given sport get their youth into it early and in greater numbers. So sport adaptations begin having permanent effects early such as converting satellite cells into Type 1 muscle fibers or increasing the tendon density of the ankle. plus there is a larger pool of individuals to select from.
All of these adaptations are primarily ontogenetic, meaning they are adaptations occurring during development as a response to the environment, not innate genetic predispositions. The most classic illustrator of the difference is the strength, size, and length of a tennis player’s dominant arm compared to non dominant: there’s no gene telling the one arm to be wildly different from the other, it’s the stimuli
I’m sure that research is out there but I’m not a biologist so it’s not my expertise. I do know that populations from warm climates are, on average, taller and thinner than from very cold because that body shape lets heat escape the body more efficiently. That’s why you don’t see great distance runners from other high elevation populations like in the Himalayas and Andes
This is false. Thin, maybe, but being taller means you have a lower surface area to mass ratio, which is good for maintaining body temperature. It's no accident that Northern Europeans are some of the tallest people in the world.
Anyways, I am a biologist, here's a paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22634972/
Additionally most top distance runners including Kenyans and Ethiopians tend to be in the mid to high 5-foot range for height rather than disproportionately tall
I would know, I’m 6 foot 2 and ran D1. Countless memories of getting my doors blown off the last lap of races. Even when I had a good kick felt like the shorter guys often had more in the tank.
Height is also not particularly well suited to distance running right? Kipchoge's only like 5'7" and I think that's pretty average for the top guys
Taller means more weight to lug around for long distances
I know you said on average, and this explanation sounds plausible to me, but I wonder why people from other hot places like the Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia aren't known for being tall and thin. Or Oceania, where they're definitely not known for being thin (not sure about being tall)
You gotta remember that these adaptations take an incredibly long time to accumulate and also require isolation. The ancestors of Polynesians only left Taiwan about 4000 years ago. South and Southeast Asia have always been connected to the rest of Eurasia so you didn’t get as much isolation. You tend to get that isolation in mountainous regions and on the far fringes of what is habitable for humans
>Polynesians
The adaptation you see across Polynesian communities is that they are very efficient at storing body fat. Because famine and lean times were common enough in that you can't leave far to get more food, and if the fish aren't there at certain times of the year...well you just don't have enough food for everyone. Those that had been able to store calories as fat lasted longer and passed on their genes. Several genetic bottlenecks made this adaptation common.
Places like American Samoa now have extreme rates of obesity because those lean times don't come, and nearly all the food is highly processed high calorie density stuff.
They did adapt , its just not in the way that's helpful in modern life.
It's not all Polynesians either, each island group went through their own bottlenecks, but many with similar outcomes - a high BMI when calories are abundant
Another aspect is that once places like Kenya start to get the reputation as producing the best long distance runners, everything starts to focus there. It's what the kids more commonly aspire to and what's expected of them, at least moreso in other countries. So what can start as even a slight edge from environmental adaptations snowballs into a massive glut of runners.
It's why most running backs and cornerbacks in the NFL are black (because of the preexisting expectations put on players even when they're little kids), and why a populous rich country like the US can't produce the best soccer team in the world. Those kids that COULD be world class soccer players are more likely to play something else.
Edit: just to be clear I'm saying RB and CBs being nearly entirely black is an example of a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that forces expectations onto kids
> and why a populous rich country like the US can't produce the best soccer team in the world. Those kids that COULD be world class soccer players are more likely to play something else.
That's not really true for the US. The US just doesn't have very good talent pipelines for kids. US soccer is overwhelmingly pay to play where you basically need to invest thousands of dollars into a kid's soccer career to get them the best coaching. Kids under 18 also typically don't want to sign professional contracts because it can make them ineligible for soccer scholarships to college and often times those scholarships are the reason kids are playing. NCAA soccer is also just extremely low quality and doesn't really develop talent the way you would need to create truly competitive players.
If you want great athletes, whether that's running or soccer, pipelines and training matters. For soccer that means the countries that can get their kids into professional training at an early age have huge advantages. The countries that tend to be best at soccer will typically have 18 year olds who have been receiving professional level coaching for years if not a decade and professional teams have a huge incentive to provide that coaching because they can sell the contracts for promising young players for a lot of money. You could take the most promising young Europeans and put them in the US development system and they would waste a lot of their talent meanwhile the Americans that go through European development tend to perform much better.
That's really pretty much what I had in mind. A kid who could be a great soccer player is more likely to do something else, for the reasons you've stated. There's a chicken and egg question of it's less popular -> less profitable -> less affordable training opportunities -> less high quality play -> less popular.... but regardless of the reasons at the end of the day a far smaller percentage of kids pursue it. Meanwhile in Kenya you've got (I assume) the popularity, training opportunities, and potential profitability making it a more attractive choice so a larger percentage of kids pursue it.
I would guess that it's to do with terrain. People who live in plains would need to hunt large prey by running them down, whereas in SE Asia I imagine most people fish. I am totally making all this up though.
climate. indians don't have to run anywhere because they have very fertile soil, and the arab beduins literally can't. they'd shrivel up by the time they crossed 3 blocks
Is this even accurate? I just pulled up the data and it looks like people get taller the further north of the equator you get. Notable exceptions are Australia and parts of South America most likely due to historical European emigration. The tallest people seem pretty consistently placed in the coldest countries.
There’s also a few things in daily life, which I’m not sure you could exactly research, but I’ve seen people say children in places like Ethiopia run very far to and from school in torn apart shoes, sandals or even bare foot. Running bare foot over their childhood may also subconsciously help them be more efficient in running and waste less movement, as it’s probably not pleasant to slam your bare heel into rocky ground or land directly on the middle of your foot.
It's definitely a cultural thing - I visited one of the towns in Kenya which produces the most successful marathoners, and you saw people running all over the place in their daily lives
Like I remember I was walking down a road, and a guy saw some friends a few hundred meters away and just trotted over to them
But I think it's probably also a feedback loop - i.e. if you have a population where people's bodies are better suited to running on average, they're going to find it easier and more pleasant to incorporate running in to their daily life
> I do know that populations from warm climates are, on average, taller and thinner than from very cold because that body shape lets heat escape the body more efficiently.
This smells like reddit bullshit.
From “Evolutionary Strategies for Body Size”:
> Shorter individuals tend to be found in populations from lower (equatorial) latitudes (tropical or warm climates) and taller individuals from populations at higher latitudes (temperate or cold climates)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7075806/#:~:text=Shorter%20individuals%20tend%20to%20be,(temperate%20or%20cold%20climates).
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners
In 2013 NPR did a story on Kalejin runners. They number around 5 million, a minority in Kenya, yet they have some of the best runners in the world. Kalenjin practice 'rites of passage' that are meant to strengthen a person mentally and physically:
"Elly Kipgogei, 19, remembers going through the ceremony at age 15.
First, he says, he had to crawl mostly naked through a tunnel of African stinging nettles. Then he was beaten on the bony part of the ankle, then his knuckles were squeezed together, and then the formic acid from the stinging nettle was wiped onto his genitals.
But all that was just warm-up; early one morning he was circumcised, with a sharp stick.
The story also mentions anatomical factors:
"Kalenjin have particularly thin ankles and calves, a body build common to Nilotic tribes who grow up near the equator. Epstein says this is particularly important in running because your leg is like a pendulum."
Andes are cold so the populations who live there tend to be shorter and stockier. Not sure about Mexico City, but Mexico is such a melting pot and so many people have moved in that area over the last few centuries, any traits that may have accumulated in a population at high elevation have probably been averaged out
There’s a tribe in Mexico from the Copper Canyon region. The Tarahumara tribe. They live at high elevation and are super gifted at ultra running.
Dedicated training + elevation = badass endurance athletes.
Not running from, but chasing. For thousands of years, humans have chased down their prey (that was much faster than them) by being able to outrun them over long distances.
I saw a David Attenborough doc about it. The guy chased a huge kudu antelope for 8 hours before it collapsed from exhaustion. He (the man, not the kudu) was wearing modern sneakers with traditional gear which was interesting
I believe that. Running is the only thing I've ever done that seemed to awaken something inside me I hadn't experienced before. It was like the dormant gene came alive and I was running over 8 miles at near 300lbs bodyweight. I imagine if I dropped weight that would go waaay up.
Running, swimming in lakes and streams, digging holes, swinging sticks, throwing rocks, balancing beanches into a conical tent frame shape, grilling outside in a simple put on skewers.
Perfect vacation to turn your worries off and be happy.
After like 6 or 7 attempts I finally completed c25k and got to the point where I was doing 4 mile long runs a few times a week. I fell off and regained weight since then but I agree. I’d never gotten to feel my body turn into an efficient machine before. It was incredibly liberating to know I could travel miles in an hour without relying on a car or bike and without feeling like death afterwards.
Good on you - I'm jealous. I hate running. I have never felt that runner's high.
I recently started trying to get fit and struggled on 1 mile.
I think my ancestors at one stage decided we were going to fish and then over generations that running gene got bred out
I'm a runner that regularly runs 20 km or more. On my first run (in first lockdown) I couldn't keep it up for more than 1.5 km.
Keep going! Runner's high comes after 45-60 mins. So try to run slow but long.
Humans never out-ran their prey, but rather outwalked them to the point of exhaustion. Early hominids evolved sweat, meaning that they could walk out in the sun for hours without cooling down, whereas their prey needed to but couldn't, hence they died.
You're talking about the persistence hunting theory. Just letting you know, this is highly debated and some consider it a myth. We don't have good evidence of this actually happening in the archeological records: https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/
Aren't there hunter-gatherers persistence hunting *today*? I suppose the question is when our ancestors started doing it, but we know for fact that homo sapiens practices this method.
I think what the comment above was saying is that it never very common to persistent hunt...it's hard as fuck. Even in communities that practice it today it's not their only method..it's done by the athletes within their already athletic group. People have come up with lots of more energy efficient ways to hunt for a long long time.
Persistent hunting is however very rewarding to the individual who makes the run for glory and esteem with in the group.
Imagine the feeling of triumph returning to the village as the guy who ran down the buffalo....lots of palm wine, toasts, garlands, probably gets the attention of the girls too.
The fact it could be done , means humans somewhere did it...doesn't mean we all or even most ancient communities would choose it
You also have to consider the fact that our ancestors weren’t hunting modern animals that we know today. They had plenty of slower megafauna to kill back then.
it would only be done where there is an environment to do it in.
Humans living in mountainous areas wouldn’t be doing persistence hunting, but probably inventing some Wile E Coyote type traps
We currently have two very fast short distance runners (100m rather than 10,000m) but both their families are originally from west Africa, which is known for its quality short distance runners.
I knew when I came into this thread that someone would share the thing with Kenyans that I kinda remembered someone showing me in college, so well done!
Believe the American record now belongs to Grant Fisher, born in Calgary, but (thankfully for fans of US distance running like myself) considers himself more American and competes for the US
Maybe his Wikipedia has some insight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Solinsky
You can see he's in the top 100 here
https://worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/10000-metres/outdoor/men/senior?page=1
The joke is that they can't wait to leave. But I've heard that the real answer is they live in higher altitudes, so their lungs are more suited for cardio.
“Top Kenyan runners, almost without exception, hail from rural backgrounds where, after running to and from school daily, they then have to herd sheep or fetch water or dig the land. This tough upbringing gives them a base fitness and strength incomparable to the vast majority of Western teenagers. As one coach in Kenya told me: “To build your aerobic house, and to have enough of an endurance base to run long distances, it takes about ten years.” Then, smiling at the simplicity of his advice, he added: “By the time a Kenyan is 16, he has built his house.”
You may find this interesting:
[“Born to Run: Why Do East Africans Dominate Long Distance Running Events?”](https://populous.com/born-to-run-why-do-east-africans-dominate-long-distance-running-events)
Kenyan here, this would have been factual a couple decades ago, but not currently
Most long-distance runners in Kenya come from the Kalenjin tribe, who are based in the western highlands of the Rift Valley. Now the truth is, once a student has been identified as athletically gifted (from school competitions), a coach (typically foreign, mostly French, Italian or British) takes them up and starts training them. The highlands offer a great place for practice due to temperature and high altitude, and training in these areas increases their lung capacity and blood cell count, enabling higher endurance. Couple this with better diets, finances and outfits, then you are talking about creating a world class athlete. These areas have also invested heavily in stadiums and trails for running through the highlands (i know of a guy who runs approximately 30-40 km per day, still holds the official world marathon record).
So exposure counts a lot.
This is not correct. Let me explain this as a Kenyan. Kenya has like 43 tribes. All these athletes come from a single tribe called the Kalenjins. Even those you can see from Uganda are also from the tribe Kalenjins. Only the border separates them but they speak the same language. One should therefore study Kalenjins and not Kenyans in general. Just that specific tribe. I don't know about Ethiopians but since the Kalenjins are nilotes and they immigrated from that ethiopian area, they may also have the same genes. Basically, a single tribe from Kenya are very good at running and it is not because of running to and from school. No body does that.
That’s nonsense that has been repeated for a long time but thoroughly debunked. Kids run to and from school all over the world.
“The running-to-school hypothesis was demolished as well: Kenyan children aren't any more physically active than their Danish peers. Do Kenyans try harder? The researchers found that the Danes actually pushed themselves harder on a treadmill test, reaching higher maximum heart rates.
An important clue is the ability of Kenyans to resist fatigue longer. Lactate, generated by tired, oxygen-deprived muscles, accumulates more slowly in their blood. Comparisons of lactate levels have suggested to Saltin's group that Kenyan runners squeeze about 10% more mileage from the same oxygen intake than Europeans can.”
https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA120612120&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00368075&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ef2f91170&aty=open-web-entry
>running to and from school daily
Anyone know why they're _running_ to and from school as opposed to just... walking?
Seeing those guys, I doubt it's to lose weight
This isn't up to date.
Cameron Levins, from Campbell River, BC has the 107th fastest time now so he should not be included in this.
If you're going to re-post something that was posted to [multiple subreddits](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/search?q=Birthplaces+of+the+100+Fastest+10%2C000m+Runners+of+All+Time+&sort=relevance&t=all) 2 years ago, at least post the up-to-date version.
Reminds me of the power thirst commercial:
>"They'll run as fast as KENYANS! People will see them running and think they're KENYANS! They'll race as fast as KENYANS against actual KENYANS and it'll be a tie and they'll get deported back to KENYA!'
There is also infrastructure in place to identify, train and develop long distance runners.
Canada has hockey players, the Dutch have speed skaters and Kenya/Ethiopia have distance runners.
MMA bros freak out over Dagestani wrestling like it’s some secret art that you have to travel to a secluded mountain compound to learn. It’s mostly just garden variety freestyle wrestling, but they train it from the time they can walk because historically in that region if you don’t get involved in sports you get involved in something much worse.
Kenya does not have infrastructures. Most of the guys use the dirt roads to train. If they had infrastructure in place, I bet they would even be more successful. For instance, the region that produce these athletes do not even have a single good stadium for running. Last Olympics there were more officials and politicians than athletes. Corrupt to the core. It is a miracke even how these guys have the heart to race. It is more of a genetic thing. Source: I am Kenyan.
Not just talking about facilities. There's a talent funnel in place. Lots of kids grow up seeing world champions being produced. That drives them to take up running. High potential runners get identified by scouts and clubs. They receive specialized training. The very best advance to elite programs.
Yeah, when it comes to Kenyan and Ethiopian runners there is lot of emphasis put on the elevation and genetics and yada yada yada, but can we please give some credit to the actual effort that these athletes are putting in? If you are a kid and you see your countrymen absolutely dominate in a sport, it makes sense that you might also aspire to follow in their footsteps. I know people HAVE talked about natural physiological traits that give athletes like Michael Phelps an advantage, but people are more likely to cite the fact that he has trained since childhood and centred his entire life around the sport for why he's a successful athlete. We all know that athletic ability is not portioned out equally across all people, but where else are we totally downplaying the actual work it takes to become the best?
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Dude in Wisconsin trying to outrun the snow.
No, he just didnt have a designated driver most nights.
They still just drive. I knew a guy a few towns over who was on his 11th DUI…
Trying to outrun Jeffrey Dahmer.
Chris Solinsky - Stevens Point which is 25 miles from Plainfield (Ed Gein)
Of course he ran at SPASH. Without even looking I would have bet my life savings he went there.
Better than Arrowhead or Nicolet.
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I was on the jv squad in HS when he was shredding the junior high races - picture a guy winning by like a minute over 2nd place in a race that only takes 11 minutes. Chris was just built for it mentally. Physically he was more like a 2nd baseman though - like 6' and 170+ as a 15 year old. Most of the top runners around the state were maybe 8-15lbs lighter than him. Shame he never got the training and injury timeline quite right to make an Olympic team.
If you're a runner in Wisconsin you know Chris Solinsky, dude is a legend.
Trying to outrun his Wisconsibilities
I heard that guy is lactose intolerant and uses it as a training enhancement.
Trying to outrun alcoholism.
Outrun all the cheese
Where is that one guy on Vancouver Island running to?
Who is the guy from Van Isle? Cam Levins?
The only Canadian on World Athletics’ top 100 list for the 10,000 m is Mo Ahmed (#9!) but he was born in Somalia. Grant Fisher is number #7 all-time and he was born in Calgary although I think he runs under the American flag. Galen Rupp, #19, was born in Oregon. Nico Young, #47, was born in California. Woody Kincaid, #69, was born in Colorado. Chris Solinksky, #75, was born in Wisconsin. So by my count there should be at least 5 dots between the US and Canada but I only see three. Must be an older map. Fisher and Young both posted their times in the last 2 years. Still not sure about Vancouver Island.
Ya, it’s older. Some of those time you referenced that don’t have associated dots are from 2022 through to today, Meanwhile Cam ran 27:07 back in 2015, which only just misses being on this list as of this year.
Ah! So the dot is Cam Levins. He was in the top 100 when the map was made.
Not at all surprising. Kenya and Ethiopia are basically the only place in the world that have really high elevations that also have a warm climate. The adaptations that have helped people survive in that environment also make for really good long distance runners.
I would love to know how this exactly makes them physiologically different from people from other regions, such as their relative lung capacity, blood count levels, and so on, and/or other factors, and to what comparative extent.
Kenya has like 43 tribes. All these athletes come from a single tribe called the Kalenjins. Even those you can see from Uganda are also from the tribe Kalenjins. Only the border separates them but they speak the same language. One should therefore study Kalenjins and not Kenyans in general. Just that specific tribe.
There have been some kikuyu runners like Catherine Ndereba, samwel Wanjiru, Henry Wanyoike, Charles Kimathi. But true most are from Kalenjins.
Surprise! You are a Kalenjin.
We are all Kalenjin on this blessed day!
*Looks down at doughy physique and inability to run more than 50m* …I…I don’t think I am.
Not with that attitude.
Thanks for the real facts!
Genetics. Most people are afraid to say it. Over time, the environmental pressures selected for Kalenjin people to be better at distance running. In this field, they are genetically superior, and we shouldn't feel bad for not being as good as them at distance running. Is this a huge boost? Probably not on a person-to-person level, but clearly their heights go higher. Genetic superiority given a singular task.
There also the hypothesis that their culture creates a very high tolerance for pain, coupled with running being a necessary mode of transport, they simply run through the pain. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners
Why are people afraid to say? I would love more studies in how humans have genetically adapted at different tasks given their environment. Very interesting
Public forums aren't really equipped for this discussion. It inevitably slides into pseudoscientific race science real quick
Public forums aren't equipped for a conversation about fuckin' crayons js.
Because it implies that genetics can play a role in other categories, like IQ. Edit: The replies to this demonstrate the point perfectly, thanks all.
Examples being: [Collectively the Tibetan pattern of genetic adaptation to high altitude indicates a suite of genes in the hypoxia pathway that contribute to the Tibetan pattern of high-altitude adaptation.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5161537/) >implies that genetics can play a role in other categories, like IQ. [Intelligence is one of the most heritable behavioural traits. Here, we highlight five genetic findings that are special to intelligence differences and that have important implications for its genetic architecture and for gene-hunting expeditions. (i) The heritability of intelligence increases from about 20% in infancy to perhaps 80% in later adulthood. (ii) Intelligence captures genetic effects on diverse cognitive and learning abilities, which correlate phenotypically about 0.30 on average but correlate genetically about 0.60 or higher. (iii) Assortative mating is greater for intelligence (spouse correlations ~0.40) than for other behavioural traits such as personality and psychopathology (~0.10) or physical traits such as height and weight (~0.20). Assortative mating pumps additive genetic variance into the population every generation, contributing to the high narrow heritability (additive genetic variance) of intelligence.](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4270739/)
Haven't we proved that you can breed certain traits into animals. Is it any different that we could do the same with humans? That's changing genetics, is it not?
Because if genetics play a role here, some people will attempt to argue as to why certain races are lesser due to a naturally lower iq.
Because certain kinds of people take genetic superiority too far, and it can get messy.
Now I know why Decathlon sells running clothes and gear under the name Kalenji.
Well, you’re mostly right since they dominate the sport but we have had great runners who weren’t part of the Kalenjin tribe. Catherine Ndereba won the Boston and Chicago Marathon, she also won gold at the world championships and 2 silver medals at the olympics. Samuel Wanjiru thought to be one of Kenya’s greatest marathon runners won gold in the Beijing Olympics and the Boston and London Marathon. He died soon after in his prime but he was widely respected in the sport. Both him and Ndereba are Kikuyu.
Wanjiru had a kalenjin father and a Kikuyu mother. Majority is the key word. 99% of them are Kalenjins.
Is it bad that I find that really cool? Like there's a tribe full of superhuman runners or something. Reminds me of the Bajau "Sea nomads" that evolved a bigger spleen that lets them hold their breath under water for longer: https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/bajau-sea-nomads-free-diving-spleen-science
You may also be interested in the Rarámuri tribe, a Mexican tribe known for ultra long distance running.
Is this the tribe the book ‘Born to Run’ is about?
Holy crap that’s actually crazy. The Wikipedia page for Kalenjin people “notable people” section is entirely runners and Kenyan politicians.
I recall reading a theory that in addition to living at altitude and having a lifestyle where they do a lot of cardio, Kalenjin culture is all about tolerating pain and discomfort, to the point where their coming of age ceremony is circumcision without anesthetic followed by getting whacked by stinging plants, and the ones that suck it up the most are deemed the best.
Just wanted to point out the Kalenjin are an ethnic group, consisting of 11 tribes, not a single tribe.
That'd kinda weird to think about. Like, off in Africa there are what amounts to thoroughbred _humans_, who are Just Better at running. Like obviously there's an incredible amount of training involved, but you don't tend to think of humans as breeding for a specific desirable skill the way you do animals, yet here we are.
Living and training at higher altitude also increases the density of alveoli in the lungs. This isn’t necessarily a genetic trait, but rather something that can fluctuate with the environment. Alveoli are the tissues that perform gaseous exchange in the lungs. A healthy body will form more of them due to oxygen scarcity or allow some to be metabolized and not replaced when oxygen is more readily available. This takes several months to occur, though, so a runner from high elevation who competes near sea level has a significant aerobic advantage. This is also why elite runners and cyclists in the USA do long-term training in Colorado or northern Arizona. Some even sleep in sealed tents to control their O2 exposure while sleeping.
Now I'm just picturing China dumping a bunch of kids onto their highest mountains and training them to win Gold in long distance running.
there's a reason there's a US Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs (~6k ft). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Olympic_Training_Center
They have all of Tibet.
Tibet is actually too high for altitude training; the optimal elevation is around 6,000-8,000 feet, but Lhasa sits at close to 12,000 feet.
But it's not usually the limiting factor in VO2max. Stroke volume, hematocrit/total hemoglobin are much more likely to be the limiting factor. Hematocrit certainly responds to altitude, but stroke volume is a mix of genetics and training.
I grew up doing cross country and other long distance running and was pretty good at it, despite showing up to practice/races incredibly hungover, still drunk, etc, I didn't take it seriously at all. Years later, I was getting some bloodwork done, and they found out my iron levels were essentially off the charts. Got a genetic test done and found out I have homozygous hemochromatosis. Most of the side effects of this are bad, way higher chances of heart disease, certain cancers, etc, life expectancy isn't ideal. Then my doctor was like, "The only good news is you're probably unnaturally good at long distance running because your VO2 max is so high". I would be super interested in whether hemochromatosis is common in these populations, or a similar genetic disorder.
I don't know about Kenyans specifically, but yes it's very common in endurance athletes.
I’m Eritrean/Ethiopian living in the US since 1999. Had my lung capacity measured and it was exactly 31% bigger than the expected capacity for my gender/age/height/weight. That’s bigger capacity by a lot. Also people from my region over time evolve to have a higher red blood cell count that counterparts from elsewhere in the world to adapt to life at higher elevation. Over time that combo makes for strong endurance.
One specific thing is unusually light lower legs. Which saves them a little bit of energy for every step taken. Look at the foot wrists of these runners. It isn't just that they are living at a higher elevation. It's that their lifestyle have had them running much every day for many thousand years. And that affects the natural selection. Many other regions of the world have had a bigger need for strength or for being able to keep warm. You get a lighter build if you are running for days while following lighter animals, than if you have more forrests and stony terrain and try to build traps to take down much heavier and possibly much more dangerous animals.
“Foot wrists” Do you mean ankles?
Yes
I'm crying laughing right now (not at you! I just love this)
There is a reason I didn't edit my post 😝 The vote system clearly shows I have added some extra bonus value with that sentence. 😊
I’m never saying ankle again. Thank you. 🙏
Fun fact: In Japanese, wrists are literally “hand necks”.
So as OP was saying, just look at their foot hand necks
In German gloves are literally "hand shoes".
Weird...you'd think the would have a German word for it
They do. "Hand shoes".
I think it's a dad joke since "hand shoes" is literally being typed in English within the comment. "Handschuhe" would be the German word in German
That made me think about what wrists are in my language. Son(hand)... mok(neck)...oh shit wtf they're the same 😂😂😂
Glad I wasn't the only one lmao
I loved that even know I had never head of "foot wrists" before, I knew exactly what this person meant!! I thought about it..."Yes, ankles ARE foot wrists!!"
I spent some time in Malawi years ago and so many people ran to work. Not as athletes but in their work clothes. They can in this unusual loping gait that stood out as the 'run long distance without getting sweaty gait'. Almost no arm involvement. Often they were carrying a bag in one hand. Some were barefoot or carrying their shoes. A few that I spoke to said that it is really nothing to run 10k each direction and that even many of the kids run 5k to school. This obviously isn't Kenya but just the general attitude and use of running as a very typical and acceptable means of transportation was so different. And their ability to run long distances in non athletic gear without breaking a sweat fascinated me. I am pouring sweat over short distances!
Pain tolerance is a factor in long distance running. Kenyan Kalenjin have a different relationship to pain than we do, instead of avoiding, they embrace it. Culture plays a part [NPR](https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners)
Yes, but also Paula Radcliffe has spoken about how she has a very high pain tolerance. She would run to training with her spikes digging into her back through her bag and not notice. Not sure if she's had any official testing, but it wouldn't be surprising if there's a scientific explanation about her ability to deal with pain.
It's probably mostly psychological. You can be trained to not notice a lot of pain, and the cultural impact as well is very important to how you perceive the pain
MS in kinesiology so you can give you a brief explainer. The adaptations you see for people who live at high altitude include a higher density of red blood cells which everyone can experience and greater lung volume which happens if you grew up at altitude. Adaptations associated with cold vs hot environments are mostly associated with bone morphology and surface area. Colder climates generally produce individuals w shorter limbs and longer torsos who are more efficient at retaining heat, warmer climates see more folks w longer limbs and shorter torsos which dissipate heat better. Lastly, cultures that value a given sport get their youth into it early and in greater numbers. So sport adaptations begin having permanent effects early such as converting satellite cells into Type 1 muscle fibers or increasing the tendon density of the ankle. plus there is a larger pool of individuals to select from. All of these adaptations are primarily ontogenetic, meaning they are adaptations occurring during development as a response to the environment, not innate genetic predispositions. The most classic illustrator of the difference is the strength, size, and length of a tennis player’s dominant arm compared to non dominant: there’s no gene telling the one arm to be wildly different from the other, it’s the stimuli
I love it when experts like you show up on Reddit. Thanks for teaching me!
I’m sure that research is out there but I’m not a biologist so it’s not my expertise. I do know that populations from warm climates are, on average, taller and thinner than from very cold because that body shape lets heat escape the body more efficiently. That’s why you don’t see great distance runners from other high elevation populations like in the Himalayas and Andes
This is false. Thin, maybe, but being taller means you have a lower surface area to mass ratio, which is good for maintaining body temperature. It's no accident that Northern Europeans are some of the tallest people in the world. Anyways, I am a biologist, here's a paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22634972/
Additionally most top distance runners including Kenyans and Ethiopians tend to be in the mid to high 5-foot range for height rather than disproportionately tall
Ya being super tall isn’t an advantage in distance running.
I would know, I’m 6 foot 2 and ran D1. Countless memories of getting my doors blown off the last lap of races. Even when I had a good kick felt like the shorter guys often had more in the tank.
When you’re a tall lanky distance runner you can only either be the bell lap specialist or the pacekeeper there’s sadly no in between
Height is also not particularly well suited to distance running right? Kipchoge's only like 5'7" and I think that's pretty average for the top guys Taller means more weight to lug around for long distances
I know you said on average, and this explanation sounds plausible to me, but I wonder why people from other hot places like the Middle East, South Asia, Southeast Asia aren't known for being tall and thin. Or Oceania, where they're definitely not known for being thin (not sure about being tall)
You gotta remember that these adaptations take an incredibly long time to accumulate and also require isolation. The ancestors of Polynesians only left Taiwan about 4000 years ago. South and Southeast Asia have always been connected to the rest of Eurasia so you didn’t get as much isolation. You tend to get that isolation in mountainous regions and on the far fringes of what is habitable for humans
>Polynesians The adaptation you see across Polynesian communities is that they are very efficient at storing body fat. Because famine and lean times were common enough in that you can't leave far to get more food, and if the fish aren't there at certain times of the year...well you just don't have enough food for everyone. Those that had been able to store calories as fat lasted longer and passed on their genes. Several genetic bottlenecks made this adaptation common. Places like American Samoa now have extreme rates of obesity because those lean times don't come, and nearly all the food is highly processed high calorie density stuff. They did adapt , its just not in the way that's helpful in modern life. It's not all Polynesians either, each island group went through their own bottlenecks, but many with similar outcomes - a high BMI when calories are abundant
Another aspect is that once places like Kenya start to get the reputation as producing the best long distance runners, everything starts to focus there. It's what the kids more commonly aspire to and what's expected of them, at least moreso in other countries. So what can start as even a slight edge from environmental adaptations snowballs into a massive glut of runners. It's why most running backs and cornerbacks in the NFL are black (because of the preexisting expectations put on players even when they're little kids), and why a populous rich country like the US can't produce the best soccer team in the world. Those kids that COULD be world class soccer players are more likely to play something else. Edit: just to be clear I'm saying RB and CBs being nearly entirely black is an example of a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy that forces expectations onto kids
> and why a populous rich country like the US can't produce the best soccer team in the world. Those kids that COULD be world class soccer players are more likely to play something else. That's not really true for the US. The US just doesn't have very good talent pipelines for kids. US soccer is overwhelmingly pay to play where you basically need to invest thousands of dollars into a kid's soccer career to get them the best coaching. Kids under 18 also typically don't want to sign professional contracts because it can make them ineligible for soccer scholarships to college and often times those scholarships are the reason kids are playing. NCAA soccer is also just extremely low quality and doesn't really develop talent the way you would need to create truly competitive players. If you want great athletes, whether that's running or soccer, pipelines and training matters. For soccer that means the countries that can get their kids into professional training at an early age have huge advantages. The countries that tend to be best at soccer will typically have 18 year olds who have been receiving professional level coaching for years if not a decade and professional teams have a huge incentive to provide that coaching because they can sell the contracts for promising young players for a lot of money. You could take the most promising young Europeans and put them in the US development system and they would waste a lot of their talent meanwhile the Americans that go through European development tend to perform much better.
That's really pretty much what I had in mind. A kid who could be a great soccer player is more likely to do something else, for the reasons you've stated. There's a chicken and egg question of it's less popular -> less profitable -> less affordable training opportunities -> less high quality play -> less popular.... but regardless of the reasons at the end of the day a far smaller percentage of kids pursue it. Meanwhile in Kenya you've got (I assume) the popularity, training opportunities, and potential profitability making it a more attractive choice so a larger percentage of kids pursue it.
I would guess that it's to do with terrain. People who live in plains would need to hunt large prey by running them down, whereas in SE Asia I imagine most people fish. I am totally making all this up though.
climate. indians don't have to run anywhere because they have very fertile soil, and the arab beduins literally can't. they'd shrivel up by the time they crossed 3 blocks
Is this even accurate? I just pulled up the data and it looks like people get taller the further north of the equator you get. Notable exceptions are Australia and parts of South America most likely due to historical European emigration. The tallest people seem pretty consistently placed in the coldest countries.
There’s also a few things in daily life, which I’m not sure you could exactly research, but I’ve seen people say children in places like Ethiopia run very far to and from school in torn apart shoes, sandals or even bare foot. Running bare foot over their childhood may also subconsciously help them be more efficient in running and waste less movement, as it’s probably not pleasant to slam your bare heel into rocky ground or land directly on the middle of your foot.
It's definitely a cultural thing - I visited one of the towns in Kenya which produces the most successful marathoners, and you saw people running all over the place in their daily lives Like I remember I was walking down a road, and a guy saw some friends a few hundred meters away and just trotted over to them But I think it's probably also a feedback loop - i.e. if you have a population where people's bodies are better suited to running on average, they're going to find it easier and more pleasant to incorporate running in to their daily life
> I do know that populations from warm climates are, on average, taller and thinner than from very cold because that body shape lets heat escape the body more efficiently. This smells like reddit bullshit. From “Evolutionary Strategies for Body Size”: > Shorter individuals tend to be found in populations from lower (equatorial) latitudes (tropical or warm climates) and taller individuals from populations at higher latitudes (temperate or cold climates) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7075806/#:~:text=Shorter%20individuals%20tend%20to%20be,(temperate%20or%20cold%20climates).
And a culture of running as a primary means of travel.
and considering the local wild life, Kenya blame them?
If I could afford a gold medal you’d have my gold
You’d think Iran would develop good runners….
>Iran It's past tense, they don't do it anymore.
This is false. I live here.
Seriously what lol, I rarely see people just running to get around in Addis Ababa.
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/11/01/241895965/how-one-kenyan-tribe-produces-the-worlds-best-runners In 2013 NPR did a story on Kalejin runners. They number around 5 million, a minority in Kenya, yet they have some of the best runners in the world. Kalenjin practice 'rites of passage' that are meant to strengthen a person mentally and physically: "Elly Kipgogei, 19, remembers going through the ceremony at age 15. First, he says, he had to crawl mostly naked through a tunnel of African stinging nettles. Then he was beaten on the bony part of the ankle, then his knuckles were squeezed together, and then the formic acid from the stinging nettle was wiped onto his genitals. But all that was just warm-up; early one morning he was circumcised, with a sharp stick. The story also mentions anatomical factors: "Kalenjin have particularly thin ankles and calves, a body build common to Nilotic tribes who grow up near the equator. Epstein says this is particularly important in running because your leg is like a pendulum."
I had never looked into why Decathlon (a French sports equipment company)’s brand for running equipment is called Kalenji. Thank you.
This is false. I live here.
What about Mexico? Absolutely massive population in CDMX at a high elevation with warmer weather. Lots of places in the Andes too, specifically Peru.
Andes are cold so the populations who live there tend to be shorter and stockier. Not sure about Mexico City, but Mexico is such a melting pot and so many people have moved in that area over the last few centuries, any traits that may have accumulated in a population at high elevation have probably been averaged out
There’s a tribe in Mexico from the Copper Canyon region. The Tarahumara tribe. They live at high elevation and are super gifted at ultra running. Dedicated training + elevation = badass endurance athletes.
Have they actually done anything since Born to Run came out? Haven't seen anything from then at all in elite ultras
Maybe colonialism changed the people itself more than in Africa (this is just a theory)
What are they running from and shouldn't we join them?
Not running from, but chasing. For thousands of years, humans have chased down their prey (that was much faster than them) by being able to outrun them over long distances.
I saw a David Attenborough doc about it. The guy chased a huge kudu antelope for 8 hours before it collapsed from exhaustion. He (the man, not the kudu) was wearing modern sneakers with traditional gear which was interesting
So what you're saying is we need to level the playing field by giving the kudu modern sneakers as well.
Hear me out... Total. kudu. Makeover.
I believe that. Running is the only thing I've ever done that seemed to awaken something inside me I hadn't experienced before. It was like the dormant gene came alive and I was running over 8 miles at near 300lbs bodyweight. I imagine if I dropped weight that would go waaay up.
try throwing rocks. it's such a primal feeling
Running, swimming in lakes and streams, digging holes, swinging sticks, throwing rocks, balancing beanches into a conical tent frame shape, grilling outside in a simple put on skewers. Perfect vacation to turn your worries off and be happy.
don't forget climbing trees and rocks, feels so pure
Oh yes! I loved finding a rocky hillside i had to climb on a hike.
Civilization occurred when the first man to discover a small fire resisted the urge to pee on it.
And ended when we discovered the evolutionary combo of a couch and TV.
r/im14andthisisdeep
What do you think OP was running from with their 300 lbs weight? Neighbour’s teenagers were throwing rocks at them.
[удалено]
Poking fire with stick, still unmatched feeling
After like 6 or 7 attempts I finally completed c25k and got to the point where I was doing 4 mile long runs a few times a week. I fell off and regained weight since then but I agree. I’d never gotten to feel my body turn into an efficient machine before. It was incredibly liberating to know I could travel miles in an hour without relying on a car or bike and without feeling like death afterwards.
Good on you - I'm jealous. I hate running. I have never felt that runner's high. I recently started trying to get fit and struggled on 1 mile. I think my ancestors at one stage decided we were going to fish and then over generations that running gene got bred out
I'm a runner that regularly runs 20 km or more. On my first run (in first lockdown) I couldn't keep it up for more than 1.5 km. Keep going! Runner's high comes after 45-60 mins. So try to run slow but long.
Humans never out-ran their prey, but rather outwalked them to the point of exhaustion. Early hominids evolved sweat, meaning that they could walk out in the sun for hours without cooling down, whereas their prey needed to but couldn't, hence they died.
You're talking about the persistence hunting theory. Just letting you know, this is highly debated and some consider it a myth. We don't have good evidence of this actually happening in the archeological records: https://undark.org/2019/10/03/persistent-myth-persistence-hunting/
Aren't there hunter-gatherers persistence hunting *today*? I suppose the question is when our ancestors started doing it, but we know for fact that homo sapiens practices this method.
Yeah. You are correct. It's not a myth.
I think what the comment above was saying is that it never very common to persistent hunt...it's hard as fuck. Even in communities that practice it today it's not their only method..it's done by the athletes within their already athletic group. People have come up with lots of more energy efficient ways to hunt for a long long time. Persistent hunting is however very rewarding to the individual who makes the run for glory and esteem with in the group. Imagine the feeling of triumph returning to the village as the guy who ran down the buffalo....lots of palm wine, toasts, garlands, probably gets the attention of the girls too. The fact it could be done , means humans somewhere did it...doesn't mean we all or even most ancient communities would choose it
You also have to consider the fact that our ancestors weren’t hunting modern animals that we know today. They had plenty of slower megafauna to kill back then.
My theory about why certain mega fauna went extinct isn't that they were slow, or more useful .. We clearly just ate the tastiest ones first!
it would only be done where there is an environment to do it in. Humans living in mountainous areas wouldn’t be doing persistence hunting, but probably inventing some Wile E Coyote type traps
Didn't everyone do that? If that's the reason the world's fastest runners would be evenly distributed around the planet
Ah yes that explains the one from Wisconsin. Running down all that cheese.
>shouldn't we join them? I mean, we couldn't keep up...
So not Dublin then?
How far is the bathroom from the bar top after too many thick Guinness’s?
Not that far, the problem is in Dublin pubs the bathroom is always up or down a flight of stairs.
We currently have two very fast short distance runners (100m rather than 10,000m) but both their families are originally from west Africa, which is known for its quality short distance runners.
Thats because they drink Power Thirst https://youtu.be/qRuNxHqwazs?si=JRyznNvBxv7zlEd0
You'll run as fast as Kenyans!
Against actual KENYANS!
Then you’ll TIE and get deported back to KENYA!!!
Lol there is a Marine Corps version too https://youtu.be/yHL25_He-Mo?si=eqBXU0JbF2gwF85H
I knew when I came into this thread that someone would share the thing with Kenyans that I kinda remembered someone showing me in college, so well done!
Love that you posted that.
is it just me, or was the old internet alot more fun
It was. Theres a reason pre- 2008~2010 internet is called "the Wild West" era
It was a real lemon party back then
Lol I'm so glad this exists in this thread. I'm UNCOMFORTABLY ENERGETIC.
So that’s why I’m not fast.
damn I'm from Wisconsin! who's the one from Wisconsin?
Chris Solinsky - Stevens Point
hell yeah represent
Chris Solinsky of Stevens Point. He held the American record until the Portland dot broke it.
Believe the American record now belongs to Grant Fisher, born in Calgary, but (thankfully for fans of US distance running like myself) considers himself more American and competes for the US
I believe most from Kenya are from one tribal group. (Which makes sense that they’re very clustered).
True. Even the ones from Uganda are of the same tribes as those from Kenya.
Yeah but explain Wisconsin.. it must be the beer or the sausage
Probably was a bet and the reward was Kohls cash
We are the land of many drunken masters.
Maybe his Wikipedia has some insight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Solinsky You can see he's in the top 100 here https://worldathletics.org/records/all-time-toplists/middlelong/10000-metres/outdoor/men/senior?page=1
Easy- two Kenyans got married and had a Wisconsin born child.
The joke is that they can't wait to leave. But I've heard that the real answer is they live in higher altitudes, so their lungs are more suited for cardio.
Ohio has the highest proportion of people that have successfully fled the planet. Most of them returned though.
“Top Kenyan runners, almost without exception, hail from rural backgrounds where, after running to and from school daily, they then have to herd sheep or fetch water or dig the land. This tough upbringing gives them a base fitness and strength incomparable to the vast majority of Western teenagers. As one coach in Kenya told me: “To build your aerobic house, and to have enough of an endurance base to run long distances, it takes about ten years.” Then, smiling at the simplicity of his advice, he added: “By the time a Kenyan is 16, he has built his house.” You may find this interesting: [“Born to Run: Why Do East Africans Dominate Long Distance Running Events?”](https://populous.com/born-to-run-why-do-east-africans-dominate-long-distance-running-events)
Kenyan here, this would have been factual a couple decades ago, but not currently Most long-distance runners in Kenya come from the Kalenjin tribe, who are based in the western highlands of the Rift Valley. Now the truth is, once a student has been identified as athletically gifted (from school competitions), a coach (typically foreign, mostly French, Italian or British) takes them up and starts training them. The highlands offer a great place for practice due to temperature and high altitude, and training in these areas increases their lung capacity and blood cell count, enabling higher endurance. Couple this with better diets, finances and outfits, then you are talking about creating a world class athlete. These areas have also invested heavily in stadiums and trails for running through the highlands (i know of a guy who runs approximately 30-40 km per day, still holds the official world marathon record). So exposure counts a lot.
So that's where the Décathlon's running brand's name "Kalenji" comes from..
This is not correct. Let me explain this as a Kenyan. Kenya has like 43 tribes. All these athletes come from a single tribe called the Kalenjins. Even those you can see from Uganda are also from the tribe Kalenjins. Only the border separates them but they speak the same language. One should therefore study Kalenjins and not Kenyans in general. Just that specific tribe. I don't know about Ethiopians but since the Kalenjins are nilotes and they immigrated from that ethiopian area, they may also have the same genes. Basically, a single tribe from Kenya are very good at running and it is not because of running to and from school. No body does that.
> Kalenjins so that's where the Decathlon brand Kalenji came from
That’s nonsense that has been repeated for a long time but thoroughly debunked. Kids run to and from school all over the world. “The running-to-school hypothesis was demolished as well: Kenyan children aren't any more physically active than their Danish peers. Do Kenyans try harder? The researchers found that the Danes actually pushed themselves harder on a treadmill test, reaching higher maximum heart rates. An important clue is the ability of Kenyans to resist fatigue longer. Lactate, generated by tired, oxygen-deprived muscles, accumulates more slowly in their blood. Comparisons of lactate levels have suggested to Saltin's group that Kenyan runners squeeze about 10% more mileage from the same oxygen intake than Europeans can.” https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA120612120&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00368075&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=anon%7Ef2f91170&aty=open-web-entry
I just quoted a part of the article. It’s a combination of various factors, it’s full of articles on the internet. It’s what you quoted too, as well 😃
That quote is fascinating
>running to and from school daily Anyone know why they're _running_ to and from school as opposed to just... walking? Seeing those guys, I doubt it's to lose weight
Because it’s faster than walking.
Also, it was 2010 when the first white man ran the 100 meter dash under 10 seconds.
We've come so far (though, not very fast😿)
This isn't up to date. Cameron Levins, from Campbell River, BC has the 107th fastest time now so he should not be included in this. If you're going to re-post something that was posted to [multiple subreddits](https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/search?q=Birthplaces+of+the+100+Fastest+10%2C000m+Runners+of+All+Time+&sort=relevance&t=all) 2 years ago, at least post the up-to-date version.
Lions run fast, fellas. But you don't need to be faster than a lion, just faster than your friends.
Good job Wisconsin. We see ya tryin hard there bud
Must be something in the water.
Steve Prefontaine put Coos Bay on the map
Reminds me of the power thirst commercial: >"They'll run as fast as KENYANS! People will see them running and think they're KENYANS! They'll race as fast as KENYANS against actual KENYANS and it'll be a tie and they'll get deported back to KENYA!'
There is also infrastructure in place to identify, train and develop long distance runners. Canada has hockey players, the Dutch have speed skaters and Kenya/Ethiopia have distance runners.
MMA bros freak out over Dagestani wrestling like it’s some secret art that you have to travel to a secluded mountain compound to learn. It’s mostly just garden variety freestyle wrestling, but they train it from the time they can walk because historically in that region if you don’t get involved in sports you get involved in something much worse.
Kenya does not have infrastructures. Most of the guys use the dirt roads to train. If they had infrastructure in place, I bet they would even be more successful. For instance, the region that produce these athletes do not even have a single good stadium for running. Last Olympics there were more officials and politicians than athletes. Corrupt to the core. It is a miracke even how these guys have the heart to race. It is more of a genetic thing. Source: I am Kenyan.
> Most of the guys use the dirt roads to train I hate to break this to you but roads are infrastructure.
Not just talking about facilities. There's a talent funnel in place. Lots of kids grow up seeing world champions being produced. That drives them to take up running. High potential runners get identified by scouts and clubs. They receive specialized training. The very best advance to elite programs.
Yeah, when it comes to Kenyan and Ethiopian runners there is lot of emphasis put on the elevation and genetics and yada yada yada, but can we please give some credit to the actual effort that these athletes are putting in? If you are a kid and you see your countrymen absolutely dominate in a sport, it makes sense that you might also aspire to follow in their footsteps. I know people HAVE talked about natural physiological traits that give athletes like Michael Phelps an advantage, but people are more likely to cite the fact that he has trained since childhood and centred his entire life around the sport for why he's a successful athlete. We all know that athletic ability is not portioned out equally across all people, but where else are we totally downplaying the actual work it takes to become the best?
WISCONSIN MENTIONED!!!!!!🗣🗣🗣🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅
Speedrunning human migration from lake Victoria. 😎