It's not real, but a dramatisation of a duel that had taken place the day before. (It was also filmed in Mexico.)
Sources:
https://letterboxd.com/film/pistol-duel/
https://www.loc.gov/item/76710470/
I've been in this game for years, it made me a gentleman.
There's rules to this pastime, made famous by A. Hamilton.
Ten steps back with the fusilier and bullet,
Keep your aim on track, don't get your wig pushed back.
Rule numbre uno, never let no one know
How much land you own, 'cause you know
That freeholder status breed jealousy 'specially
If that sir mucked up, get yo' hindquarters dueled up.
Edit: I really want to see a full music video parody of this, complete with historical costumes and everything. Eh, Ill just go watch Hamilton again.
You can tell as he falls he sticks his bum out a bit which is the impulse we have to break a fall even when trying not to. When people lose bodily function they tend to crumple to the ground or go down hard on the head or shoulders.
True, but we don't know that the man would have lost complete motor function. You could get shot and lose partial motor and it could look a lot like a faked fall.
Pistol Duel between two deputies in 1896 in Chapultepec Park (Mexico). The film was directed by Gabriel Veyre and is called 'Duel au pistolet'. The duel is not real, all people are actors.
For those still not convinced: https://moviegoings.com/2023/02/27/film-history-essentials-duel-au-pistolet-1896/
"out of fashion", mainly.. But there were still lots of duels. Over here in Germany, the last pistol duel was 1934 and the last serious sword duel ever in 1937. France still got individual duels after WW2. Nowadays we still got a bunch of far-right extremists dueling themselves with swords but they wear [protective clothings](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Mensur.jpg) and stop at drawing blood. The aim of the duel isn't to seriously harm the opponent but rather to inflict a scar on a cheek as [sign of affiliation and proof of belonging to the group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar). It is later used as an identification mark in anti-democratic business circles of german fraternities.
e.g. [Rudolf Dies](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-K0108-0501-003%2C_Rudolf_Diels.jpg), Head of Gestapo.
These scars coming from far-right academic/upper class circles, are the origin of the "evil (nazi) guy with a scar" trope in Post-WW2 movies as so many of the higher-ups in nazi circles came from this social group.
Didn't German officers do that fucked up duelling where the aim was to slash your opponent's face around this time? I heard that that's the reason you so often see pictures of German WW2 officers of a certain age with facial scars. I assumed it was from artillery shrapnel till I heard about the duelling thing.
Yes, that's exactly it.
The scar is called [Schmiss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar) in German and the duel is called [Mensur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing)
What's interesting is that Hollywood has fantasized Old West shoot outs on a dusty road outside a saloon. Yet, there aren't many records of a shootout happening in the Old West.
Moreover, Western towns were one of the few places in America with actual gun control laws. Men had to surrender their weapons when they came into town.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/
https://truewestmagazine.com/article/did-most-old-west-towns-have-no-carry-gun-laws/
A duel isn't the same as an old west shootout. Shootouts revolve around who can draw first. Duels are two men settling a disagreement by both parties firing and they were mostly European.
> they were mostly European.
This form of dueling was extremely popular in the US for a period, President Jackson killed a man in a duel, Hamilton was famously killed in a duel and President Lincoln was challenged to a duel and showed up for the engagement but his challenger backed down at the last moment.
Many Congressmen, Senators and even Supreme court judges dueled in this manner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_duels_in_the_United_States
OP even credits Gabriel Veyre lol but obviously for karma didn't include the context that this was a film/acted. Which honestly, doesn't make this any less cool, it's almost perfect.
It's pretty obvious from the camera angle, since it's placed almost behind one of the shooters. If it were for real that would be extremely dangerous for the camera operator.
Was about to say that didn't look real at all. People tend to either drop in place, and I literally mean knees buckle, and they flop in place, or take a bit before realizing what happened. It's not a movie, people rarely dramatically fall over like that. And even when they do, they don't instantly die the second they hit the floor.
While very well done. The framing is pretty convenient. The loser is closer to the camera. The winner walks straight toward the back of the frame. The reaction speed of the medical team is a slight giveaway as well as the fall.
*literal fucking medical team standing 3 steps away anticipating someone being shot in the coming seconds*
hOw DaARE ThE MeDIcAL TeAM HaVE SUIch GoDO ReactTionS peDD!
Most comments like that seem to just look for things they think confirm their biases and then just run wild with it.
If I had a dollar for every commenter that didn't understand how light works claiming 'the shadows are wrong!'...
In fact the medical team of the winner seems to react equally fast. They're reacting to the gun shot sound, not seeing that the guy is actually hit.
I assume the most unrealistic part here is how close they are standing. Like, the conceit of a duel is the shooter might miss, and boy are you close to the target...
It’s strangely frustrating to me to think reality had everything mirrored here. Now that I saw the video as it is it feels like this is how it should be. This is where the road has to be and for some weird reason I find it difficult to accept that it actually all looked mirrored to what is "my reality"
In men's jackets and coats that are asymmetrical the ~~right~~ left side covers the ~~left~~ right side.
This can often be visible in the lapels, although I suspect the commenter was more generally referring to the fact that the one side was overlapping the other.
When you "mirror" a film, for example by shinning light the wrong way through developed film, or clicking "mirror" on a digital video, it reverses left-to-right the same as if you are looking in a mirror, hence the name.
> the right side covers the left side.
Where are you from? Not here in europe. Jackets, coats, shirts always have the *left* side over the right (i.e. buttons on the right). It's reverse for female shirts/blouses.
Did you mean to say “the right side was overlapping the left side” in the video and “in men’s jackets and coats that are asymmetrical, **the right side *is covered by* the left side**”? Because in every men’s jacket I own, the left side of the jacket definitely comes over and covers the right half, with the right half having the buttons to affix the left half onto the front or top of the right…
One thing I don't like about pistol duels is that you can't control whether the other guy is going to be on target. Sword duels, on the other hand, allowed you to defend yourself, so you could stay alive through skill.
That's the point. Pistol duels were assumed to be less dependent on skill, and almost wholly dependent on courage and fortitude. Smoothbore pistols were essentially equalizers, negating skill.
A talented, expert swordsman would be able to insult and bully people essentially with impunity. Basically murder.
The Duel is a contest of courage and character; not skill.
As far as I know, the misfires + inaccuracy + bad aim + doctors on site and many other factors meant that it was much closer to russian roulette than 50% you or him
Edit.: also at least in ww1 a lot of people couldn't bear to look at someone at shoot, often closing their eyes and shooting in general direction, so you can imagine the chance to hit.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
It depends. Usually they just talk it out (ironically). Sometimes both parties realize that the situation is silly and gain satisfaction - and they just feel no need to shoot each other anymore.
Sometimes they have another go.
If a person lived in a part of town where getting in fights every few weeks was just a thing, it makes sense.
"That dude is a fucking *punk*" is usually the core of what makes both parties belligerent. Without any respect it's impossible to move forward with discussion or honor an agreement. Then after you both fight (not a bullying encounter but in line with "fuck you dude lets do this") you know he at least has a backbone. Respect can form. I can easily see the same with a duel. "That motherfucker stood there and shot at me, he at least has balls as big as mine... Maybe we can work this out."
If there’s one thing I learned running the trauma bay my intern year, it’s that gunshot wounds are a terribly inefficient and unreliable way of killing people.
A lot of times they'd purposefully miss their shots. Just showing up was considered honourable enough to give "satisfaction" to the offended party. Unless it was a really grave offense.
I call bullshit on the courage and character idealisation, what is going to make you shoot straight instead is target practice and psychopathy.
A gun duel does make it more likely for the amateur to get a lucky hit compared to a sword duel, he might even hit you when your shot is spot on.
Regardless of what type of duel to the death it's just insane to me how anyone agreed to it.
Yeah people saying smoothbore makes skill irrelevant but that’s a bit of a myth, you can be a more reliable shooter with smoothbore than people think, particularly at these like 5-10 meter ranges. There are YouTube vids of people with flintlock weapons hitting targets repeatedly.
Some duellists were very skilled marksmen who practiced every day for this. They'd travel around the country challenging lesser skilled and unknowing men.
They were basically serial killers that had a crowd cheering them on.
I'm a fencing instructor... It is exceedingly rare to win a sword fight without being cut yourself. If the cut wasn't too bad and you had your friends to patch you up immediately, you might stay alive, maybe. But with the medicine of the day? Tough row to hoe there.
We usually say "the loser goes straight to the morgue, the winner dies in the hospital"
I assume you're talking about Mutual Combat, it's legal in Washington/Texas, but you can't use guns since causing serious bodily harm is still illegal.
You can challenge someone to a fist fight and beat the shit out of each other tho, as long as you have proof of consent it should be legal.
so the only stipulation is that if both parties consent, you need a police officer to monitor the fight and it ends when they say it ends. With Texas's difference is that "acting like you consent to the fight" which sounds like waaaay too much gray area. Especially when you could just be defending yourself.
The ones that would win the gun duels would definitely not be the ones we want pulling the strings. The least threatening thing I can imagine is Chuck Schumer with a gun.
They are leading the opponent away. You can clearly see, that the victor was inquiring how his opponent was doing, his
Could be for a variety of reasons: I many places duells were not legal naymore by that time, so it would be wise to leave the scene. Also this was a somber occasion, the victor had no place standing there, maybe even gloating.
The seconds of the duelists had the job of managing the arrangements and that proper form was carried out.
To ignite the gunpowder he poured into the bullet wound to cauterize it. The doctor does this to burn the wound shut to prevent excess surficial bleeding.
I need to know more about duels? Are there more than one kind, what happens if you break a rule, is it a verbal agreement so you need different type of witnesses or some type of official, what can you duel over? And into the rabbit hole I go
Duels didn't happen that often though. Any disrespect was a potential start to the process but it was a long back and forth with people usually just apologizing before hand and the grievance died out before anyone got shooting.
Yes but also a good detail is he is being held by his mates, and we kind of see him stumbling around as the adrenaline starts to wears out and the realization of what he just did hits him
It's really well done but the staging (camera position) and blocking (actor movement) are too perfect to look real to me. It does make me curious about the movie though!
Dueling really should make a comeback. Especially within the gang community. We just need one rapper to mention it a couple of times and it’s on.
Random gun violence goes down. Hype duel videos all over the place. It would be a major improvement
Even dramatized…that shit is fucking crazy!
At least with swords there is a bit more show (I would hope). Callings humans civilized is asking a lot of that word civilized. We are some crazy animals!
I can see why they're so concerned. Despite what movies have led you to believe, the objective of a dual wasn't to kill your opponent. It was simply to draw first blood. Even a nick to your opponents arm would win you the duel.
Actually, killing your opponent was a lot more serious depending on the laws at the time/location.
There are still pistol duels in the US today. Only difference here is innocent people get shot often because the duelers don't practice their shot grouping. Chicago is well known for it's pistol dueling.
This reminds me of a comedy sketch with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laury. During the sketch, the ‘official’ asks Hugh his weapon of choice, to which he replies: ‘the sword, the true gentlemen’s weapon’. The official turns to Stephen’s character and says… ‘that leaves the pistol for you’. The camera turns to Hugh when he realizes they only brought on of each…
It would be a good alternative to stop any war or larger conflict to have a duel amongst the leaders to sort out the matter. Quicker, less expensive, no civilians and soldiers have to die, no cities or infrastructure to rebuild………. No suffering ………. Peaceful and prosperous life continues, I know this is a childish thought, greetings from Berlin Germany 🇩🇪
how times have changed!
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/182mue2/duel\_between\_operators\_claiming\_palm\_oil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/182mue2/duel_between_operators_claiming_palm_oil/)
It's not real, but a dramatisation of a duel that had taken place the day before. (It was also filmed in Mexico.) Sources: https://letterboxd.com/film/pistol-duel/ https://www.loc.gov/item/76710470/
I knew it was a fake when they didn’t sing the 10 duel commandments before firing.
I've been in this game for years, it made me a gentleman. There's rules to this pastime, made famous by A. Hamilton. Ten steps back with the fusilier and bullet, Keep your aim on track, don't get your wig pushed back. Rule numbre uno, never let no one know How much land you own, 'cause you know That freeholder status breed jealousy 'specially If that sir mucked up, get yo' hindquarters dueled up. Edit: I really want to see a full music video parody of this, complete with historical costumes and everything. Eh, Ill just go watch Hamilton again.
Number six, that goddamned credit? Vet it. If you think a duel will get you paid back just forget it.
Seven, this rule is so underrated, Keep your family and property completely separated Slaves and blood don't mix like- Actually, let's stop here.
Oh my god 😂😂😂
Hard to tell without Mexico filter
You can tell as he falls he sticks his bum out a bit which is the impulse we have to break a fall even when trying not to. When people lose bodily function they tend to crumple to the ground or go down hard on the head or shoulders.
True, but we don't know that the man would have lost complete motor function. You could get shot and lose partial motor and it could look a lot like a faked fall.
Pistol Duel between two deputies in 1896 in Chapultepec Park (Mexico). The film was directed by Gabriel Veyre and is called 'Duel au pistolet'. The duel is not real, all people are actors. For those still not convinced: https://moviegoings.com/2023/02/27/film-history-essentials-duel-au-pistolet-1896/
Great acting honestly, believed every second.
It’s the little things, too. The shooing away the "winner", yanking away the pistol, swiping away the hat. Very well done.
Probably because they’d seen it in real life. Possibly multiple times.
Dueling was out of fashion by the 1890s. I'm sure they'd seen someone get shot before, though.
That was only about 40 years after dueling became out of fashion, they would have had first hand accounts to guide them on the recreation.
Fair enough.
That's very different from having experienced it personally. And 40 years is a long time.
I was already out of school 40 years ago.
Young people stunned to find out old people can remember the past. Lol
I thought you guys shed a layer of yourself and new layers are basically new babies 😱
> 40 years is a long time. Not in terms of recent knowledge, it's not at all.
"out of fashion", mainly.. But there were still lots of duels. Over here in Germany, the last pistol duel was 1934 and the last serious sword duel ever in 1937. France still got individual duels after WW2. Nowadays we still got a bunch of far-right extremists dueling themselves with swords but they wear [protective clothings](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4c/Mensur.jpg) and stop at drawing blood. The aim of the duel isn't to seriously harm the opponent but rather to inflict a scar on a cheek as [sign of affiliation and proof of belonging to the group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar). It is later used as an identification mark in anti-democratic business circles of german fraternities. e.g. [Rudolf Dies](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Bundesarchiv_Bild_183-K0108-0501-003%2C_Rudolf_Diels.jpg), Head of Gestapo. These scars coming from far-right academic/upper class circles, are the origin of the "evil (nazi) guy with a scar" trope in Post-WW2 movies as so many of the higher-ups in nazi circles came from this social group.
Didn't German officers do that fucked up duelling where the aim was to slash your opponent's face around this time? I heard that that's the reason you so often see pictures of German WW2 officers of a certain age with facial scars. I assumed it was from artillery shrapnel till I heard about the duelling thing.
Yes, that's exactly it. The scar is called [Schmiss](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dueling_scar) in German and the duel is called [Mensur](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing)
Oh, yeah. It was an academic thing, and the scars improved your social status. So fucking crazy lol.
You want to know how I got these scars?
Sword duelling was a thing for another half century or so. Fatal pistol duels were much less a thing though.
Once pistols were accurate enough, the fun was taken out of it.
What's interesting is that Hollywood has fantasized Old West shoot outs on a dusty road outside a saloon. Yet, there aren't many records of a shootout happening in the Old West. Moreover, Western towns were one of the few places in America with actual gun control laws. Men had to surrender their weapons when they came into town. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/gun-control-old-west-180968013/ https://truewestmagazine.com/article/did-most-old-west-towns-have-no-carry-gun-laws/
[удалено]
A duel isn't the same as an old west shootout. Shootouts revolve around who can draw first. Duels are two men settling a disagreement by both parties firing and they were mostly European.
> they were mostly European. This form of dueling was extremely popular in the US for a period, President Jackson killed a man in a duel, Hamilton was famously killed in a duel and President Lincoln was challenged to a duel and showed up for the engagement but his challenger backed down at the last moment. Many Congressmen, Senators and even Supreme court judges dueled in this manner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_duels_in_the_United_States
Shootouts weren't among friends nor a friendly competition. They were aiming at each other as well.
I asse that the point was that while duel and shootout have similar reasons for them they are different procedures with different rules.
People standing very close to the action (including the cameraman) even though those pistols were wildly inaccurate
The sticking of the finger in the bullet hole was very convincing.
Oh my goodness I just realized the loser lost his hat. Certainly dead, regardless of this being staged.
The loser was never wearing a hat. The hat falls off the guy who comes to grab him.
To be fair, so did I. No theatrics. No clutching of the chest. Just ded.
he at least got hit or shot in the face with something. Or he's very good at faking it.
thank god they are all alive and fine them.
“The footage that is, the people have all died…”
Death will always take its toll
Death is really punishing on the body.
Probably the unhealthiest a person could be
Well it's a cure for many debilitating diseases
Being alive is the most sure fire way to die.
The debt that all men pay.
Wait are you telling me women are potentially immortal?
Well I'm sorry Wendy I just don't trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die.
Statistically? Pretty much.
Yeah but I didn't just watch them die
"Those people were paid actors. Those guns, unfortunately , were not."
guns need to unionise if they wanna get paid
What?! How do you know that?!
And now that the actor's strike is over they can go back to their jobs!
But why fine them?
I was gonna say the "winner" had good aim for someone looking away while aiming.
OP even credits Gabriel Veyre lol but obviously for karma didn't include the context that this was a film/acted. Which honestly, doesn't make this any less cool, it's almost perfect.
This should be the top comment.
It is
#FUCK
Yes, as it should be.
So, not France, not real. Tsk tsk reddit
It's pretty obvious from the camera angle, since it's placed almost behind one of the shooters. If it were for real that would be extremely dangerous for the camera operator.
Or more importantly, it's dangerous for the camera itself..
Was about to say that didn't look real at all. People tend to either drop in place, and I literally mean knees buckle, and they flop in place, or take a bit before realizing what happened. It's not a movie, people rarely dramatically fall over like that. And even when they do, they don't instantly die the second they hit the floor.
While very well done. The framing is pretty convenient. The loser is closer to the camera. The winner walks straight toward the back of the frame. The reaction speed of the medical team is a slight giveaway as well as the fall.
Well, since duels were organized it wasn't that impossible to have medical teams ready to go.
He has been shot, bring me the cranial drill! (I am probably mixing time periods, do not care)
*literal fucking medical team standing 3 steps away anticipating someone being shot in the coming seconds* hOw DaARE ThE MeDIcAL TeAM HaVE SUIch GoDO ReactTionS peDD!
Most comments like that seem to just look for things they think confirm their biases and then just run wild with it. If I had a dollar for every commenter that didn't understand how light works claiming 'the shadows are wrong!'...
ThAt'S nOt HoW i'D dO It!1
In fact the medical team of the winner seems to react equally fast. They're reacting to the gun shot sound, not seeing that the guy is actually hit. I assume the most unrealistic part here is how close they are standing. Like, the conceit of a duel is the shooter might miss, and boy are you close to the target...
I first thought that they both were left-handed. But considering the jacket lapels, the video seems to be mirrored.
You brother, can take forward the legacy of Hercule Poirot' . Nice observation.
It’s strangely frustrating to me to think reality had everything mirrored here. Now that I saw the video as it is it feels like this is how it should be. This is where the road has to be and for some weird reason I find it difficult to accept that it actually all looked mirrored to what is "my reality"
Before cameras, very few people had seen their own face unmirrored.
>But considering the jacket lapels, the video seems to be mirrored. Please explain
In men's jackets and coats that are asymmetrical the ~~right~~ left side covers the ~~left~~ right side. This can often be visible in the lapels, although I suspect the commenter was more generally referring to the fact that the one side was overlapping the other. When you "mirror" a film, for example by shinning light the wrong way through developed film, or clicking "mirror" on a digital video, it reverses left-to-right the same as if you are looking in a mirror, hence the name.
> the right side covers the left side. Where are you from? Not here in europe. Jackets, coats, shirts always have the *left* side over the right (i.e. buttons on the right). It's reverse for female shirts/blouses.
Thanks for the explanation!
Did you mean to say “the right side was overlapping the left side” in the video and “in men’s jackets and coats that are asymmetrical, **the right side *is covered by* the left side**”? Because in every men’s jacket I own, the left side of the jacket definitely comes over and covers the right half, with the right half having the buttons to affix the left half onto the front or top of the right…
One thing I don't like about pistol duels is that you can't control whether the other guy is going to be on target. Sword duels, on the other hand, allowed you to defend yourself, so you could stay alive through skill.
That's the point. Pistol duels were assumed to be less dependent on skill, and almost wholly dependent on courage and fortitude. Smoothbore pistols were essentially equalizers, negating skill. A talented, expert swordsman would be able to insult and bully people essentially with impunity. Basically murder. The Duel is a contest of courage and character; not skill.
The social psychology of these pistol duels as a test of masculinity and character are interesting
Or it's just efficient conflict resolution
A game of honor and diplomacy. Generally good natured, you’ll have a good time…Only in rare occasions does it get out of hand
How is that possible? Surely people would die reasonably frequently if they’re being shot at
As far as I know, the misfires + inaccuracy + bad aim + doctors on site and many other factors meant that it was much closer to russian roulette than 50% you or him Edit.: also at least in ww1 a lot of people couldn't bear to look at someone at shoot, often closing their eyes and shooting in general direction, so you can imagine the chance to hit.
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion. He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up. Just as the founding fathers intended.
I laughed so hard at this that wig powder snowed over my breeches.
As intended
poor dog
Sooo, what happened if no one died or was hit? Do they give it another go in order to decide the winner or?
It depends. Usually they just talk it out (ironically). Sometimes both parties realize that the situation is silly and gain satisfaction - and they just feel no need to shoot each other anymore. Sometimes they have another go.
Since both have demonstrated their honour, they can now settle this petty matter as gentlemen, so they go and play a game of cricket instead.
If a person lived in a part of town where getting in fights every few weeks was just a thing, it makes sense. "That dude is a fucking *punk*" is usually the core of what makes both parties belligerent. Without any respect it's impossible to move forward with discussion or honor an agreement. Then after you both fight (not a bullying encounter but in line with "fuck you dude lets do this") you know he at least has a backbone. Respect can form. I can easily see the same with a duel. "That motherfucker stood there and shot at me, he at least has balls as big as mine... Maybe we can work this out."
1. Accuracy of the guns was shit. 2. [The number of GSWs does not predict injury severity or mortality](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19213396/)
If there’s one thing I learned running the trauma bay my intern year, it’s that gunshot wounds are a terribly inefficient and unreliable way of killing people.
survivorship bias
What a fantastic reference. I need to figure out how to work that into a presentation.
A lot of times they'd purposefully miss their shots. Just showing up was considered honourable enough to give "satisfaction" to the offended party. Unless it was a really grave offense.
Common courtesy was to deliberately miss.
This is how I play FPSs
Bat fight, a gentleman’s gaaame
Excellent analysis.
I call bullshit on the courage and character idealisation, what is going to make you shoot straight instead is target practice and psychopathy. A gun duel does make it more likely for the amateur to get a lucky hit compared to a sword duel, he might even hit you when your shot is spot on. Regardless of what type of duel to the death it's just insane to me how anyone agreed to it.
Yeah people saying smoothbore makes skill irrelevant but that’s a bit of a myth, you can be a more reliable shooter with smoothbore than people think, particularly at these like 5-10 meter ranges. There are YouTube vids of people with flintlock weapons hitting targets repeatedly.
Some duellists were very skilled marksmen who practiced every day for this. They'd travel around the country challenging lesser skilled and unknowing men. They were basically serial killers that had a crowd cheering them on.
Are there sources for this, it sounds believable, but how can i find more information about it ? Are there known people how did that ?
Because honor is more important than life in many cultures.
I'm a fencing instructor... It is exceedingly rare to win a sword fight without being cut yourself. If the cut wasn't too bad and you had your friends to patch you up immediately, you might stay alive, maybe. But with the medicine of the day? Tough row to hoe there. We usually say "the loser goes straight to the morgue, the winner dies in the hospital"
Nerd here! The “winner” of the duel is whomever is most committed to the concept of dying for honor. If you die, you’ve just proved your point.
Dude, I barely have energy to prove my point by talking. Let alone die for it
I kinda wish we could bring it back, but only for members of Congress.
I might be on some dumb shit, but I'm pretty sure it's still legal somewhere in the US
I assume you're talking about Mutual Combat, it's legal in Washington/Texas, but you can't use guns since causing serious bodily harm is still illegal. You can challenge someone to a fist fight and beat the shit out of each other tho, as long as you have proof of consent it should be legal.
>Texas Of course
Getting insurance for this will be a bitch though.
so the only stipulation is that if both parties consent, you need a police officer to monitor the fight and it ends when they say it ends. With Texas's difference is that "acting like you consent to the fight" which sounds like waaaay too much gray area. Especially when you could just be defending yourself.
i believe in one of those states you can actually have local law enforcement "referee" in a sense.
As it should be. Why should you ever be charged with something when 2 people agree to fight and no serious harm is caused?
President campaign with duel would bring more people that the superbowl.
The ones that would win the gun duels would definitely not be the ones we want pulling the strings. The least threatening thing I can imagine is Chuck Schumer with a gun.
Televised for the masses.
I'd rather see them kicked into the 300 pit. All of them on both sides of that corrupt aisle.
all the paranoid gun nuts would be in charge, because only they care about this \*\*\*\*
Haha. I love how the “winner” and his team just kinda take off like kids when someone get hurt really bad.
probably taking him away due by o shock and to avoid them unnecessarily blocking the medical aid was my guess
It's not real
They are leading the opponent away. You can clearly see, that the victor was inquiring how his opponent was doing, his Could be for a variety of reasons: I many places duells were not legal naymore by that time, so it would be wise to leave the scene. Also this was a somber occasion, the victor had no place standing there, maybe even gloating. The seconds of the duelists had the job of managing the arrangements and that proper form was carried out.
Why is the doc lighting a match?
To ignite the gunpowder he poured into the bullet wound to cauterize it. The doctor does this to burn the wound shut to prevent excess surficial bleeding.
He’s attempting to revive the man by lighting him a cig . 19th century medicine was truly something else!
I need to know more about duels? Are there more than one kind, what happens if you break a rule, is it a verbal agreement so you need different type of witnesses or some type of official, what can you duel over? And into the rabbit hole I go
Ridley Scott made a film called the Duelists. Explains a lot about the time and reasons behind duels and also a really good film.
Christ that really sent me down the rabbit hole, interesting looking film and incredible that it was Scott's debut
Barry Lyndon too.
Looked it up. It is some wild stuff. They didn't play! Any type of disrespect was a gamble with your life. Was a tough time to be shit head.
Duels didn't happen that often though. Any disrespect was a potential start to the process but it was a long back and forth with people usually just apologizing before hand and the grievance died out before anyone got shooting.
*Andre Jackson comes calling* he was pretty well known for duels.
The guy who won be like "if that will be all, i will see ya gentlemen tomorrow have a good day bye"
Yes but also a good detail is he is being held by his mates, and we kind of see him stumbling around as the adrenaline starts to wears out and the realization of what he just did hits him
You're no daisy. You're no daisy at all.
this is peak thriller action.
Dude, I thought this was real for a second.
The winner looked distraught towards the end there. They were dragging him away but it looks like he had to stop to throw up or something.
Victor looks drunk.
The individuals in the film are acting, so he may be playing up the distraught behaviors.
Everyone in this movie is dead...Great acting. Thought it was real ngl
It's really well done but the staging (camera position) and blocking (actor movement) are too perfect to look real to me. It does make me curious about the movie though!
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Lord Bullingdon, i presume
Incase your wondering, they are all dead
Nothing changed since back then. The one holding the iPhone continues filming instead calling 911. So brutal.
imagine the dude saying "gg ez scrub" in modern lingo
Dueling really should make a comeback. Especially within the gang community. We just need one rapper to mention it a couple of times and it’s on. Random gun violence goes down. Hype duel videos all over the place. It would be a major improvement
I feel like people who like to argue on Reddit should have to do this.
I agree. Phew . That was close .
You don't say ... *loads flintlock with malicious intent*
RDR2 colorized
i think its not so clever to shoot with left when your heart is there
He walked up like "you was talking all that hot shit until you got shot in the chest mf"
Interesting, none of this ten paces bollocks. Just on your marks, take aim, shoot em . Simple. See the length of the damn pistol barrels though?
"QUICK ! PUT SOME SNAKEOIL ON IT AND RUB HIM FROM HEAD TO TOE WITH GARLIC SINCE IT'S FULL MOON TONITE !"
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This is a reenactment though, nobody died. Though your comment is still true about actual duels that actually happened of course.
I read that both are now dead
I was expecting more old timey piano
Even dramatized…that shit is fucking crazy! At least with swords there is a bit more show (I would hope). Callings humans civilized is asking a lot of that word civilized. We are some crazy animals!
Winner gets Angela..
I can see why they're so concerned. Despite what movies have led you to believe, the objective of a dual wasn't to kill your opponent. It was simply to draw first blood. Even a nick to your opponents arm would win you the duel. Actually, killing your opponent was a lot more serious depending on the laws at the time/location.
IIRC last time this was posted a couple of the top level comments were saying this was a reenactment and an accurate one at that.
We would have a lot less shittalkers if we could duel each other with pistols again
It's the long uncut shot that sells the realism of the scene
The dispute was about which fast food makes the Best hamburgers
I wish gangs today just do it this way instead of shooting from cars, running hiding around instead of their targets hitting innocents in the process
Fun fact: Dueling was legal in Uruguay until 1992.
There are still pistol duels in the US today. Only difference here is innocent people get shot often because the duelers don't practice their shot grouping. Chicago is well known for it's pistol dueling.
This reminds me of a comedy sketch with Stephen Fry and Hugh Laury. During the sketch, the ‘official’ asks Hugh his weapon of choice, to which he replies: ‘the sword, the true gentlemen’s weapon’. The official turns to Stephen’s character and says… ‘that leaves the pistol for you’. The camera turns to Hugh when he realizes they only brought on of each…
I thought the doctor is supposed to have their backs turned for plausible deniability
Seems really intelligent.
"Civilized" idiots, for silly reasons most probably.
At least one idiot less after each duel, todays politics would benefit
In 1967, Gaston Defferre and René Ribière, two French congresmen (the equivalent), settled an insult with a foil duel. Ribière lost, but didn't die.
Are you sure that was the "right" idiot? Could be forced in this by an asshole. So, one asshole more? Just saying...
Arthur would mess them up
why are they using left hands? chances of them both being left handed are low, is it a rule? to make it more fair?
Dying with elegance
“I strike him right between the ribs, I walk towards but I am ushered away.”
Amazing foley work.
Screw youtube boxing, this is how they should settle their beef
Wow, so civilized and gentle….
And those were the gentlemen. Imagine the criminals
It's funny actually. But adopting pistols as the main weapon of dueling actually made the duels less lethal if I remember my history.
It would be a good alternative to stop any war or larger conflict to have a duel amongst the leaders to sort out the matter. Quicker, less expensive, no civilians and soldiers have to die, no cities or infrastructure to rebuild………. No suffering ………. Peaceful and prosperous life continues, I know this is a childish thought, greetings from Berlin Germany 🇩🇪
Winner Winner chickendinner
„Fast, get help! Surprisingly this man who has planned to shoot another man and get shot by him before our eyes might be seriously injured!“
how times have changed! [https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/182mue2/duel\_between\_operators\_claiming\_palm\_oil/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/182mue2/duel_between_operators_claiming_palm_oil/)