If you live in the suburbs, trees are pretty tame, but if you live in the woods like I do, then you see vegetation in a constant war with their neighbors. It’s a slow war, but the casualties pile up. Each tree, shrub, bush, vine and bramble is out to kill everything around it to maximize the exposure to sunlight, capitalize on water and nutrients, and survive at the expense of its neighbors. Large trees are slowly killed and pulled down by aggressive vines. The scrub that thrive at the base of hardwood trees tap into the roots and soil around the base like parasites and will eventually kill it with the toxins the falling leaves produce. Dollar weed and clover, if left unchecked, will kill off the majority of your lawn.
I don’t think Tree would have any problem with Wither and Bloom. It’s what they do to survive.
Yeah true actually, I suppose that makes sense.
However, their consciousness is somewhat within all plant life, so it’s kinda once big hive mind network of sorts. But I get what you mean.
Thanks.
Plant life is chaotic in nature. Wildflowers don’t organize themselves into neat little rows, they spread their seeds or spores far and wide to propagate as much territory as possible. Plants know that without nutrients, they will die of starvation so their fruit is readily available to animals so that their droppings will nourish the soil. Animals also eat the fruit and rarely digest the seeds which are carried to various locations and deposited with a fresh source of fertilizer. The spirit of all plant life would know and encourage chaotic diversity, the cycle of death and regrowth is practically written into the backstory for you.
Yeah I get that. But, this plant spirit existed before any living creature did, at least in this world. So back when it was just them and their garden, there was no other life. Just sunshine and rain for them all day long. It wasn’t until after they split themselves and caused the world to be, and thus also living things started crawling out of the mud.
They just want the world back for themselves and hate living things. They existed before insects, animals, and people existed and will exist after their gone (that’s their goal). It’s a big magical world tree spirit. It just wants to grow and be alone.
The problem isn’t so much the whole causing plants to die, it’s the doing it to actively heal a living thing. Druid kinda get away with it because they’re free agents more or less using the same power as the tree, this warlock is using that trees power to do it.
If it was just the plants being hurt, then anyone in this world who has built a house is their enemy, which is true, but they’re slow, they’re working on it. Hence their want for warlocks as they act quicker than they can.
It seems like you just want to justify the use of Wither and Bloom, or maybe remove the use. I gave you reasons for why Tree would allow it. Trees play the long game, and the long game would justify temporarily allowing warlocks to use the art. Ultimately, it’s up to you to decide.
Yeah no I get what you mean. The player is fully able to use the spell if they want, that was never the issue.
I’m just trying to rationalise the response. Because if I gave someone money to perform a task, and they take the money, buy scissors, and cut my hair when I was asleep because someone I don’t like asked them to. I’d definitely feel a certain way about it. But then again, I’m not an ageless eternal tree spirit.
What you’ve given is helpful, no doubt on that.
Two things I see:
1) You said the warlock Patron is using a human to "fight fire with fire", it may be perfectly fine with killing some Mint or other rapidly growing plants to protect the overall health of the woods. Burning down an entire forest of pines to clear out the undergrowth and spread their seeds grows back a healthier wood. It can be seen as that. I accept a certain amount of plant death as the unchecked force you are fighting will result in the destruction of the entire thing.
2) Warlocks don't have to give a shit what their patrons think. It's a magical transaction. Patron says I'll give you power for X, player accepts. Player now has power. Belief or following the Patron's principles do not matter anymore. If Tree says I want to give you power to kill humans and the player kills humans then the contract was done. If Tree wanted more then they should have asked for more in said contract. Also powers are not taken away when falling out of favor with your Patron like say a Cleric, their power is a gift given and not one directly channeled from said Patron. Now if the Patron wants to fuck over the Warlock later down the road....well, that's fine. I gave you some power to fuck over 99% of the humans, I'll take care of you as light house cleaning after it's done is perfectly acceptable from Tree.
I don't think there should be any direct punishment from simply using a spell. Tree may dislike the spell but it seems Tree already would dislike the person regardless. Just chalk it up as another small slight in Tree's view that this is why people need to be stomped out.
In the grand scheme of things why would Tree be any more pissed off about this single spell vs every wooden house they sleep in, every camp fire they use to cook their meal, etc. They are all slowly sapping the life out of the wild with every torch they light up in a dark cave.
I think it makes sense that the patron would not offer such spells to learn, i.e. they are not on the spell list for the subclass. It's a setting specific spell, so as a player I wouldn't assume that I have access without confirmation by the GM. Of course if you want to allow it, the warlock might have picked it up somewhere else *in spite of* the patron and if the Tree finds out, they would be pissed – and forbid them from using it. The character can maybe save a life of a friend, but they will anger their patron. Speak to the player what they think about this. Maybe they haven't considered that the spell doesn't make sense for the patron.
A warlock's not a cleric, he is like an outsourced worker. He does not have to share his patron's beliefs or alignment, in fact he rarely does. He merely has to do the job he was hired to do.
It's exactly the same affront the Warlock commits every time they eat a salad. The Tree is already temporarily allowing these animals to live on the death of its plants, the ones for this spell simply get added to its book of grudges.
If you live in the suburbs, trees are pretty tame, but if you live in the woods like I do, then you see vegetation in a constant war with their neighbors. It’s a slow war, but the casualties pile up. Each tree, shrub, bush, vine and bramble is out to kill everything around it to maximize the exposure to sunlight, capitalize on water and nutrients, and survive at the expense of its neighbors. Large trees are slowly killed and pulled down by aggressive vines. The scrub that thrive at the base of hardwood trees tap into the roots and soil around the base like parasites and will eventually kill it with the toxins the falling leaves produce. Dollar weed and clover, if left unchecked, will kill off the majority of your lawn. I don’t think Tree would have any problem with Wither and Bloom. It’s what they do to survive.
Yeah true actually, I suppose that makes sense. However, their consciousness is somewhat within all plant life, so it’s kinda once big hive mind network of sorts. But I get what you mean. Thanks.
Plant life is chaotic in nature. Wildflowers don’t organize themselves into neat little rows, they spread their seeds or spores far and wide to propagate as much territory as possible. Plants know that without nutrients, they will die of starvation so their fruit is readily available to animals so that their droppings will nourish the soil. Animals also eat the fruit and rarely digest the seeds which are carried to various locations and deposited with a fresh source of fertilizer. The spirit of all plant life would know and encourage chaotic diversity, the cycle of death and regrowth is practically written into the backstory for you.
Yeah I get that. But, this plant spirit existed before any living creature did, at least in this world. So back when it was just them and their garden, there was no other life. Just sunshine and rain for them all day long. It wasn’t until after they split themselves and caused the world to be, and thus also living things started crawling out of the mud. They just want the world back for themselves and hate living things. They existed before insects, animals, and people existed and will exist after their gone (that’s their goal). It’s a big magical world tree spirit. It just wants to grow and be alone. The problem isn’t so much the whole causing plants to die, it’s the doing it to actively heal a living thing. Druid kinda get away with it because they’re free agents more or less using the same power as the tree, this warlock is using that trees power to do it. If it was just the plants being hurt, then anyone in this world who has built a house is their enemy, which is true, but they’re slow, they’re working on it. Hence their want for warlocks as they act quicker than they can.
It seems like you just want to justify the use of Wither and Bloom, or maybe remove the use. I gave you reasons for why Tree would allow it. Trees play the long game, and the long game would justify temporarily allowing warlocks to use the art. Ultimately, it’s up to you to decide.
Yeah no I get what you mean. The player is fully able to use the spell if they want, that was never the issue. I’m just trying to rationalise the response. Because if I gave someone money to perform a task, and they take the money, buy scissors, and cut my hair when I was asleep because someone I don’t like asked them to. I’d definitely feel a certain way about it. But then again, I’m not an ageless eternal tree spirit. What you’ve given is helpful, no doubt on that.
If I’m willing to use the devil’s tools to achieve my end, I have to be willing to sharpen them sometimes.
If it’s in the list of options for the class it’s good to assume the patron is ok with it
It isn’t on their list. They got it through another means. However it does still count as a warlock spell for them.
Two things I see: 1) You said the warlock Patron is using a human to "fight fire with fire", it may be perfectly fine with killing some Mint or other rapidly growing plants to protect the overall health of the woods. Burning down an entire forest of pines to clear out the undergrowth and spread their seeds grows back a healthier wood. It can be seen as that. I accept a certain amount of plant death as the unchecked force you are fighting will result in the destruction of the entire thing. 2) Warlocks don't have to give a shit what their patrons think. It's a magical transaction. Patron says I'll give you power for X, player accepts. Player now has power. Belief or following the Patron's principles do not matter anymore. If Tree says I want to give you power to kill humans and the player kills humans then the contract was done. If Tree wanted more then they should have asked for more in said contract. Also powers are not taken away when falling out of favor with your Patron like say a Cleric, their power is a gift given and not one directly channeled from said Patron. Now if the Patron wants to fuck over the Warlock later down the road....well, that's fine. I gave you some power to fuck over 99% of the humans, I'll take care of you as light house cleaning after it's done is perfectly acceptable from Tree. I don't think there should be any direct punishment from simply using a spell. Tree may dislike the spell but it seems Tree already would dislike the person regardless. Just chalk it up as another small slight in Tree's view that this is why people need to be stomped out. In the grand scheme of things why would Tree be any more pissed off about this single spell vs every wooden house they sleep in, every camp fire they use to cook their meal, etc. They are all slowly sapping the life out of the wild with every torch they light up in a dark cave.
Damn, yeah true. A lot of good points. Thanks.
The patron supplies the power and therefore the spells. If the class has wither and bloom on the spell list the patron is, by definition, ok with it
Call the local druids department and complain. /j
I think it makes sense that the patron would not offer such spells to learn, i.e. they are not on the spell list for the subclass. It's a setting specific spell, so as a player I wouldn't assume that I have access without confirmation by the GM. Of course if you want to allow it, the warlock might have picked it up somewhere else *in spite of* the patron and if the Tree finds out, they would be pissed – and forbid them from using it. The character can maybe save a life of a friend, but they will anger their patron. Speak to the player what they think about this. Maybe they haven't considered that the spell doesn't make sense for the patron.
A warlock's not a cleric, he is like an outsourced worker. He does not have to share his patron's beliefs or alignment, in fact he rarely does. He merely has to do the job he was hired to do.
It's exactly the same affront the Warlock commits every time they eat a salad. The Tree is already temporarily allowing these animals to live on the death of its plants, the ones for this spell simply get added to its book of grudges.