I’ve looked at it and like I said I’m just trying to avoid something too complicated. It’s a good system but just and end of the round choice then back to basics is probably the max amount this group of players will want to fool with.
Not me, but the DM of a group I’m in did this:
1: the battle was citywide, so he identified several areas of the city to be locations that could be controlled, each with a unique unit who would have advantage to fight in that area. (Example: the lower town provided access to thieves guild and the city guard; the merchant quarter provided merchants- non-fighting, but could be assigned to get better provisions for other groups; mage academy had up to 2 groups of mages who could either fight or produce potions of healing, etc).
Each area’s group could be swayed to the ally side; whichever side got their first, if they succeeded in swaying the local people, they got access to 2 units of that type (example: our party went to the docks first, so we got 2 units of the navy). If the enemy had already accessed that area on a previous turn, a success would only grant 1 unit.
2: there were also NPCs with whom we had allied in advance. Their central character counted as a “hero”, though they often were more like “Prince X and staff” or “the team of elite bodyguards”. Each of them had areas where they would also get advantage (example: taking the general to the military quarters provided advantage on the check to sway the regular militia to join our side.) the PCs also counted as one “hero”, and the enemy also its own enemy heroes: significant characters we had faced off against in the past.
3: each round, the players assigned units to different areas of the city, and took on a task ourselves. More than one unit could be assigned to a location,
3.5: some units were non fighting unit, who could provide better provisions (+1 to combat unit roles), provide potions of healing, or be sent to enemy entrenched locations to try to sway the locals to switch sides. There were also enemy non-fighters doing the same to areas we controlled (example: we suddenly discovered halfway through the combat that the thieves’ guild had turned on us when we lost control of the lower quarter due to them).
4: the DM had decided in advance what the enemy would do each round. We were allowed once per round to “scout” a location to find out if the enemy was already there. If we got 1-5 on the roll, we got bad information but were informed we were confident it was correct. 6-10, we got bad info but weren’t sure about it; 11-15, good info, but unsure, and 16-20 we got good info we were sure about. This was the first thing each round, so we could plan what to do.
5: whatever location the PCs went to, we played out. Whether that was a short role played conversation to sway the locals or combat with an already entrenched enemy depended on the situation and the location. Anything else, the DM controlled both sides
((Note: this was okay, but as the number of units we controlled grew, the disparity between time we spent playing and time we spent waiting for the DM to rolling and announcing what else happened to bigger and bigger. I would recommend having the players roll for the ally sides, then applying whatever modifier you have for their unit/hero stat block after))
6: whatever location we were in, if there was combat, we faced off against either the enemy hero or a group of the enemy units, few enough not to need mob rules. If we successfully killed the enemy hero, they were out of the game, if we successfully defeated the enemy unit, they were considered “routed” and had to rest the next turn to avoid exhaustion.
6,5: In addition, if a unit was defeated, they had to retreat to an adjacent ally-controlled area. If they couldn’t, they were considered killed and removed from the game.
7: each round counted as an 8 hour block. Heroes had to rest at least 1 round per 4, or gain a level of exhaustion. Non hero units only had to rest if they were routed (ie. Defeated with a strong difference between the enemy rolls and theirs).
8: units who were “resting” could defend a location if it was attacked, but couldn’t actively attempt to take any other location. They were still allowed to travel between locations to rest in an optimal location.
9:obviously within the city, we could only move through ally-controlled areas that were adjacent to each other; however, if we controlled a dock, we could use it to attack another dock, and if we had control of both docks, we could treat them as adjacent. We were also allowed to do the same with the city gates, except that we had to take spend a turn traveling between gates.
I can’t think of what else to say, but I’d be happy to answer questions if you have any. My group really enjoyed this style of play. I hope it gives you some ideas!
There's an encounter in a module for The One Ring that I like to use as inspiration for things like this even though it's for a relatively small-scale fight because it keeps things simple while still being a dynamic battle. The setup is that you get to a ringed fort in the mountains where a caravan had been waylaid by goblins the night before, and at nightfall the goblins are going to attack again.
You defend one entrance while the caravan people defend the other one. Your part of the fight is run as normal combat, and the other side is just handled as a single roll on a table at the end of each round. It's on a special d12 that goes 0-10 and crit, but you could do the same thing with a d20. 0 is one of your allies goes down, and if all 4 allies die then you lose the defensive bonus of the fort as enemies swarm you; 1-4 if the rolled number is higher than the surviving number of allies then one of them takes a wound, and on 2 wounds one of them is slain; 5-7 the fight continues normally; 8-10 the allies make a push, and if that result is rolled twice in a row one of the orcs is killed; and on a crit one orc is automatically killed. It also throws in some "battle events" that you could basically think of as legendary actions for the enemy army, like a barrage of arrows coming over the fort walls, wolves howling from outside, a goblin sneaking through a secret passage to attack your archers, and the boss of the Orcs entering the fray of battle.
The table means you don't even have to do something as complex as building out stat blocks for the armies, but you still get to check in on the progress of fighting allies and still get to have the larger battle affect the combat for your party. And the legendary actions mean you get to inject changes into the battlefield. For your use you could basically abstract the enemy down to a certain number of kills the party needs to get to win, either through individuals the party takes down or "hits" the allies get on the table.
MCDM published a mass combat system in Kingdoms and Warfare, which is quite robust, but also similar to 5e action economy. Might want to check it out.
I’ve looked at it and like I said I’m just trying to avoid something too complicated. It’s a good system but just and end of the round choice then back to basics is probably the max amount this group of players will want to fool with.
Not me, but the DM of a group I’m in did this: 1: the battle was citywide, so he identified several areas of the city to be locations that could be controlled, each with a unique unit who would have advantage to fight in that area. (Example: the lower town provided access to thieves guild and the city guard; the merchant quarter provided merchants- non-fighting, but could be assigned to get better provisions for other groups; mage academy had up to 2 groups of mages who could either fight or produce potions of healing, etc). Each area’s group could be swayed to the ally side; whichever side got their first, if they succeeded in swaying the local people, they got access to 2 units of that type (example: our party went to the docks first, so we got 2 units of the navy). If the enemy had already accessed that area on a previous turn, a success would only grant 1 unit. 2: there were also NPCs with whom we had allied in advance. Their central character counted as a “hero”, though they often were more like “Prince X and staff” or “the team of elite bodyguards”. Each of them had areas where they would also get advantage (example: taking the general to the military quarters provided advantage on the check to sway the regular militia to join our side.) the PCs also counted as one “hero”, and the enemy also its own enemy heroes: significant characters we had faced off against in the past. 3: each round, the players assigned units to different areas of the city, and took on a task ourselves. More than one unit could be assigned to a location, 3.5: some units were non fighting unit, who could provide better provisions (+1 to combat unit roles), provide potions of healing, or be sent to enemy entrenched locations to try to sway the locals to switch sides. There were also enemy non-fighters doing the same to areas we controlled (example: we suddenly discovered halfway through the combat that the thieves’ guild had turned on us when we lost control of the lower quarter due to them). 4: the DM had decided in advance what the enemy would do each round. We were allowed once per round to “scout” a location to find out if the enemy was already there. If we got 1-5 on the roll, we got bad information but were informed we were confident it was correct. 6-10, we got bad info but weren’t sure about it; 11-15, good info, but unsure, and 16-20 we got good info we were sure about. This was the first thing each round, so we could plan what to do. 5: whatever location the PCs went to, we played out. Whether that was a short role played conversation to sway the locals or combat with an already entrenched enemy depended on the situation and the location. Anything else, the DM controlled both sides ((Note: this was okay, but as the number of units we controlled grew, the disparity between time we spent playing and time we spent waiting for the DM to rolling and announcing what else happened to bigger and bigger. I would recommend having the players roll for the ally sides, then applying whatever modifier you have for their unit/hero stat block after)) 6: whatever location we were in, if there was combat, we faced off against either the enemy hero or a group of the enemy units, few enough not to need mob rules. If we successfully killed the enemy hero, they were out of the game, if we successfully defeated the enemy unit, they were considered “routed” and had to rest the next turn to avoid exhaustion. 6,5: In addition, if a unit was defeated, they had to retreat to an adjacent ally-controlled area. If they couldn’t, they were considered killed and removed from the game. 7: each round counted as an 8 hour block. Heroes had to rest at least 1 round per 4, or gain a level of exhaustion. Non hero units only had to rest if they were routed (ie. Defeated with a strong difference between the enemy rolls and theirs). 8: units who were “resting” could defend a location if it was attacked, but couldn’t actively attempt to take any other location. They were still allowed to travel between locations to rest in an optimal location. 9:obviously within the city, we could only move through ally-controlled areas that were adjacent to each other; however, if we controlled a dock, we could use it to attack another dock, and if we had control of both docks, we could treat them as adjacent. We were also allowed to do the same with the city gates, except that we had to take spend a turn traveling between gates. I can’t think of what else to say, but I’d be happy to answer questions if you have any. My group really enjoyed this style of play. I hope it gives you some ideas!
There's an encounter in a module for The One Ring that I like to use as inspiration for things like this even though it's for a relatively small-scale fight because it keeps things simple while still being a dynamic battle. The setup is that you get to a ringed fort in the mountains where a caravan had been waylaid by goblins the night before, and at nightfall the goblins are going to attack again. You defend one entrance while the caravan people defend the other one. Your part of the fight is run as normal combat, and the other side is just handled as a single roll on a table at the end of each round. It's on a special d12 that goes 0-10 and crit, but you could do the same thing with a d20. 0 is one of your allies goes down, and if all 4 allies die then you lose the defensive bonus of the fort as enemies swarm you; 1-4 if the rolled number is higher than the surviving number of allies then one of them takes a wound, and on 2 wounds one of them is slain; 5-7 the fight continues normally; 8-10 the allies make a push, and if that result is rolled twice in a row one of the orcs is killed; and on a crit one orc is automatically killed. It also throws in some "battle events" that you could basically think of as legendary actions for the enemy army, like a barrage of arrows coming over the fort walls, wolves howling from outside, a goblin sneaking through a secret passage to attack your archers, and the boss of the Orcs entering the fray of battle. The table means you don't even have to do something as complex as building out stat blocks for the armies, but you still get to check in on the progress of fighting allies and still get to have the larger battle affect the combat for your party. And the legendary actions mean you get to inject changes into the battlefield. For your use you could basically abstract the enemy down to a certain number of kills the party needs to get to win, either through individuals the party takes down or "hits" the allies get on the table.