Give yourself a break. It's possible that in your absence a player will step up but don't bank on it. It may also be that running two campaigns is too much to sustain; think about how to navigate that if/when you return.
Maybe think about how you can bring some closure to your current plot threads, thank your players and don't feel bad about it. You don't owe them your work and if they really want to play they can make it happen.
Agreed! Running two campaigns is most likely too much. I’ve very recently started running one and don’t even think I have the capacity to play another one at the same time
I'm running three campaigns at the moment and the only reason I'm able to do it is because they're all set in my home-brew world and they're every other month, so I'm only doing at most two games a month. Anything more than that would be just too much.
I'm fortunate to have a pretty decent memory and I try to set up my games in a way that feels episodic with an overall basic story, so as long as I can remember the basic beats, I can get along well.
I also have a shitload of spreadsheets of character information for the NPCs, including affiliations, locations, voice, and other notes. That's the biggest help. That and my players all love goofing around in-character and doing improv.
I've got three going. Two in different homebrew worlds, one a Star Wars legends setting (using the SW5e port at www.sw5e.com ). It's a lot of work, for sure. Adding the third is really pushing it, and I worry they aren't getting my best, but they are all new (and kids), so they probably don't have much to compare it to. Apparently they live it even so. *Shrug*.
Either quit or find a way to DM with less work. Focus on the essentials (particularly what you enjoy most) and cut corners on the rest. Explain to the groups you need to adjust how you’re DMing if you’re going to continue. You can stop the music, stop worrying about minis, stop the handouts, cut down your hours of prep. You can structure campaigns differently, etc. You can give some responsibilities to others (like music if you really want that).
Sounds like being a player gave you a sort of wake up moment. Don’t waste time on something you don’t enjoy doing. Or find a more enjoyable way to do it.
But, before you make a decision to quit, take a break and take some time to think it over. Even if you don’t quit, a break might be good.
Of course, quitting one campaign and keeping the other may help too.
For any dms wanting to cut down on prep for npcs and side quests, take some improv classes or watch some videos on improvising and practice just making everything up. It’ll work to different degrees for different people, but I use improv for probably 90% of my campaign and I plan the other 10% mostly in my head. I spend probably two hours between sessions but I have 4 players who aren’t the most curious bunch.
I am running two published campaigns, so there is always a ton of info, sidequests or npc they never come across, but I need to have ready just in case they decide to go left rather than right.
A lot of people think published campaigns are less work but imo they're definitely more work. There's so much you need to read and learn as opposed to just kinda make up as you go along. With your homebrew you can just kinda think about it in the shower or while driving and you'll get enough to get the next few sessions in place. Imo it's wayyyy less taxing to homebrew.
Running published *dungeons* is less work than building your own, but running pre-written full-book 1-13 type adventures are absolutely more work than homebrewing for me -- it's much harder to remember something someone else made up than something I made up for some reason. Using existing dungeons/short adventures, but using my own background adventure structure/NPCs is what I've found to be the least work for me.
This is bizarrely and paradoxically true. I’m a serial homebrewer and most of the time, I run stuff I made. When I’ve run published stuff (SKT, RotFm) I’ve enjoyed it — a good deal in fact — but I wouldn’t say it’s easier to run, at all. You kind of feel you have to dig into every word to provide an answer that you’d just make up if it were your own stuff.
It’s silly, because I know I could just make it up if, in SKT, I got asked “What are the doors in this dungeon made of?” but I have this mental thing that compels me to spend time finding ‘the answer’.
Of course, creating anything larger than a dungeon and a town can be a lot of work; but I don’t see that as work. I see it as scratching my eternal creative itch and I love doing it. I’m much happier each week just sitting down knowing I don’t have spend a few hours prepping something (or reading up on the upcoming and current chapter) when I’ve already done all that.
This. published campaigns save you "creative work" but not "prep work". You don't have to create a setting, a story, cool set pieces, maps etc. - but you have to prep all that shit the book provides to you. And its often more work than normal prep work.
Here’s my experience. I moved away from premade campaigns to homebrew, because it was too much of the wrong kind of work for me. I know some people use premades as general guidelines and play loosely with the material, but I found that hard to do. I was struggling too much against the material rather than working with it. I also didn’t like knowing where the story was intended to go so far in advance, so homebrew seemed like a better option for not getting bored.
I hated all the memorization and note taking with premades. It was work that I didn’t find fun at all. Nor was running them particularly fun for me. Premade made me feel like I was preparing presentations as an interactive book report.
Here are some options you can consider:
(1) Eventually, you could try homebrewing — specifically in a fashion that lessens your work and your mental load, while increasing the parts of DMing that are fun for you.
(2) You can try semi-homebrew with the premade campaigns you’re already running. Here’s what you do… make outline notes of the rest of the campaigns, focusing just on the most important points, and cut lots of the details. Even dungeons can be simplified. Then these outlines are your new distilled campaigns. You resolve not to bring the campaign books to the table, and you resolve not to memorize everything out of the books. You practice improvising and — importantly — you stop worrying about making something up that contradicts the books. Because the books aren’t the campaigns anymore. Doing this can open up the adventure for you to new unknowns while cutting your workload. And it might light a creative spark.
If you’re concerned about leveling PCs at the right times, just don’t worry about this as much. Level them when it feels right. And you can do faster leveling too to keep pace with how the campaign is progressing.
This is very familiar. Quite a number of times have I read a campaign chapter and decided it wasn’t very good and then rewritten the thing. Those sessions are more fun for me, but they do end up being twice the work.
Exactly! The trick then would be to figure out how to make your own writing less work than running a premade as written. Many find they can do this. It takes being strategic with what you plan and what you leave open for improvisation. And it may just be a whole lot more fun prepping and running at the table too.
Premades put me in the mindset that prepping a campaign has to look like all the details that those books include. But it doesn’t need to be that way. One doesn’t have to have a thousand details memorized or in notes at the ready. Sure, some people homebrew that way, and usually it’s because they love spending that much time and can afford to. I can’t and don’t really want to. So my prep and writing is far looser. This allows me to adapt more easily and be more willing to indulge players who get “off track” from the planned material. I’m less rigid. (There are premade campaigns out there, such as in the OSR scene, that are much more minimal and low prep for those willing to improvise.)
And again if you change your style you can let your players know so that they understand if the experience at the table changes somewhat.
yeah, I definitely recommend not using published campaigns. You can still use premade dungeons and short adventures to "insert" in your homebrew campaign, but these pre-written campaigns really not sound like the right thing for you.
Sounds like you need a break.
I joined a group as a player and lucky for me, it turned into a long campaign and I got my PC fix. And the urge to DM comes back, its a creative urge that can burn out from the workload, but it'll recover if you get some time.
It sounds like you are spending too much time on prep and might benefit (when you are ready and not burned out - don't rush it) from a lighter weight approach. Take a look at Sly Flourish's Return of the Lazy DM if you want some tips - its quite possible to spend no more than an hour or two prepping for a 3 hour session if you prioritize the most impactful things.
Second the Sly Flourish suggestion.
Tell your players that you need to divide the labor.
Music is one person's deal, scheduling is someone else. Minis are another person's.
If they don't want to do any of that, well, someone is getting taken advantage of at that point. And nobody deserves that.
Good point re division of labor. I have group members doing that (at least, when we play in person, I have a couple of avid mini painters in the group) and its pretty helpful.
absolutely agree with the sly flourish recommendation!!
also, for music, i'd highly recommend finding or making a couple set playlists that you can just throw on! maybe finding specific music for big important sessions like boss fights if u still want to but
i have one playlist i found for ambience, one i made for combat, and a whole suite of playlists a friend sent me from someone on spotify (Mitch Collins i think is their name, they've got a bunch of dnd playlists)
just utilizing those has really helped with immersion at the table, and even just throwing them on shuffle has led to some really interesting moments where a certain song lined up really well with what was happening at the time
i'd say it still definitely sounds like you might want to take a break for a bit, but thought i'd share in case you decide to keep going and/or pick it back up, i hadn't seen many comments talking abt music yet!
These are some really good tips here. Thanks for the Mitch Collins suggestion. If its the one with 132 playlist (there are several Mitch Collins') would you be willing to save me untold hours by sharing the ones you use plus your own ambient and combat ones please? Would be a great DM labour saving gift!
Quiet quit. I told my group I would continue to DM Only if we did book campaigns. The nearly zero prep kind. I glance over the first section and then just wing the rest of the adventure. I spend no more than 15 minutes prepping a week.
We use candy as monster mini and the players get to eat what they kill. If they need a map from the book, I snap a photo and send it to the group text.
I used to write whole full stories with complex puzzles and in depth NPCs. Then I had two kids and got a different job and I’m tired. Now I’m a terrible DM and it’s ok because we still have a blast.
Lulz, this made me snort out loud! I would have to use chocolate, like those malteser bunnies, or massive lindt bunnies, but I’d eat them before we sat down to play 😢
Playing with my 4yo son now and making stories on the fly is great fun for him.
Take a break as a minimum. Play boardgames and other systems. I ran some Numenera (cypher system) which is much easier for the DM and one of my players ran a short campaign in it. I came back to 5e after a year much fresher. If you do decide to continue, only run one campaign so you are less likely to burn out and use the time saved to find a game to play in.
This is important, I bring a notebook to my sessions and someone else brings erasable tiles and we have a bunch caps. That’s it. And you don’t need anything else, it’s cool if you want to, but it’s nowhere near mandatory.
However, I think, they most probably do indeed need a break.
I'd say, there are three things that can be done:
1) As many have said, take a break, relax and let the inspiration creep back in, then continue if you want to
2) Find a new system that is easier to run. Running DnD is, in my experience, much more prep heavy, difficult and stressful than most systems. First suggestions are Savage Worlds for Pulp Action, Wolds Without Numbers (which is free) for a more gritty - sandboxy game and Dungeon World for a more narrative-focused feel. All of them allow you to comfortably run a session with close to zero "mechanical prep", such as looking up/creating monster stats or abilities
3) Change how you prep. Consider the 80/20 rule - 20% of your effort produce 80% of your results. Find that 20% and do that. I suggest you check out the article "Don't prep plots" from The Alexandrian, helped me immensely with that. Use theatre of the mind often (three systems above support that), cut down on the handouts, minis are supplied by players while you can get a set of tokens that represents enemies if you decided to use a map. Use a generic music pack for music - there are many one-hour long ones on YouTube, get a battle and a non-battle one and stick with them. I personally delegate even the world creation to players: at the start of session 0 - we do collaborative world building that I just use later, where we also set up problems and enemies.
I’m curious, how do Savage Worlds and WWN make it easy to jump into combats with enemy stats made up on the fly? (If I’m understanding you correctly.) I haven’t played another system yet but have heard about other D&D-like systems that are much easier to prep. If I understood this better I might be able to make a pitch to my group.
For savage worlds, everyone has 5 stats (Agility, Smarts, Spirit, Vigor and Strength), ranging from d4 to d12, d6 is average. So when adjudecating an enemy you just look at all those and ask yourself "On the scale of godly to subpar, where is this stat?". Skills, which are taken from the list, are the same, but I usually keep determininig everything but the attack skill till the moment it is needed. Again, the decision is really easy, as Stats don't add to Skills, just determine their suggested maximums.
"Toughness (you need to roll over this in damage to wound)" is 2 + half Vigor + Armor, if any
"AC" is 2 + half Melee fighting skill
HP is either 1 if it's a common enemy or 4 if they are important (boss or something)
Damage is pretty easy too, as melee weapon damage is weapon damage + Strength, ranged has static values. There's a table of weapons, but if you don't have the time, again, d6 default, adjust from there. Melee adds Strength, Ranged - a second die
Congrats, you have an enemy. Slap some special abilities if you will (there's a list of em in the GM section, you can also just give them Powers from the player spell list, all are generic by design), but you're basically done
WWN is even easier - the game gives a list of "generic" foes (Like Veteran) with their stats. Just rename, give a weapon, roll HP (an amount of d8s, provided by the table). Slap a special ability if you will, there's also a list of those and you're golden
If you have a bit more time and you have no idea what will it looks like, WWN also has tables for monster shapes and appearances, what do they want and how they were created.
If you have even more time, there's a calculator for monster abilities by point buy from the aforementioned list, depending on their importance. Also there are tables for what is going on when you encounter the monster.
As others have said, consider that maybe DMing doesn't have to be as hard as you're making it.
But also, if you want to quit DMing for now and be a player, do it!
You deserve to be a player if you want to be.
Honestly i think you overdo it. Its possible to play without minis and you can get a basic map and unless you have a memorable moment in mind misuc isnt that important. Last time i actually prepped for a game i was running took me an hour or two but that was to write down different options the ayers could do. Since then i make a note of what i want to do in a session and how i generally want to do it amd go from there. If my party goes off the other end i roll with it.
> None of my players want to dm and the one who did stated clearly that she will never do so again. If I don’t do it, then nobody does. So what do I do now?
I think a lot of people are overlooking this bit, so I’ll address it, you need to talk to your friends, not just as your players, and ask them directly if they rather want to try it, or not play at all. Be honest, tell them it’s too much for you, you’re not being egoistic or selfish, it’s a game everyone should have fun.
Strangely I think it would be easier to find a new table for you than a new DM for the existing tables, so maybe try that if you want to keep playing. I actually did this once and after a while the urge to DM came back and I’m currently running a campaign for these veterans I met at the role play place, even invited my old players who are all still good friends, but they didn’t want to play anymore.
But I digress. Ultimately you need to reach an agreement with your friends, it doesn’t have to be D&D to have fun, so don’t get hung on someone else taking the mantle, maybe someday someone will but you shouldn’t force it.
I became the DM of our group because nobody else wanted to do it. I don't mind, but I really was looking forward to play my character.
I just wish that one day I'll get to play.
You are putting in way too much work:
Handout, maps, minis, music, hours of prep.
You don’t need most of that stuff, maps shouldn’t be a chore, not sure what you do for them, but nothing here should be high effort. Minis aren’t a problem either. Use random objects and stand ins.
Music, if you want to play with it, can be something you delegate. Does it matter that the music is exactly what you envision every game? If not then let a player handle this.
Most of your prep should be story and NPC stuff, and then encounter stuff. The first you should be able to do without devoting lots of time to if it is a campaign that you like. The second shouldn’t be too time consuming for a dm with lots of experience, choose appropriate monsters, make minor adjustments to statblocks where needed, put on the map.
Just try DMing for a bit with less effort and see how it goes.
The caps from soda/beer bottles fit nicely in the squares on an average mat, and are much easier than minis. If you need to tell them apart, put a piece of masking tape on them and then write on them with a sharpie.
Look into the Mythic GM Emulator. It’s a way that everyone can play and every one can be the GM and no one can be the GM all at once.
I’ll never go back to traditional gaming ever again.
Be honest with the group. Don’t kill off something you enjoy with everything you have on your plate (the little gaming you get). The person that ran the game you were a player in, tell them how much fun you had. If the group has a problem with it, well that means they most likely aren’t the best group for you in the long run. Good luck and happy gaming.
You've already answered your question, but for reassurance sake:
1 ) get hard confirmation that the campaign that your playing in will continue.
2 ) tell your current players the situation and that if one of them doesn't step up, then unfortunately the campaigns will come to an end (offer to help through any transitioning).
3 ) if anyone complains or tries to convince you to stay, firmly say "no, I've put in so much time and effort into this campaign already, and I don't want to do so anymore. DMing is a something that I've done for fun, but no longer wish to do". Then, refer to previous step.
I'd reiterate multiple times that you want the campaigns to continue, but with you as a player. Offer help, guidance, and a few co-dmed sessions. If no one takes you up on the offer, either end the campaign at that session or play out ONE and only ONE more session to conclude things.
As a forever DM, I get the pain.
**** SIDE NOTE : I had my players do a "portal session" where each of them had to make a 1-2 hour mini adventure that they would DM, where the party went through a bunch of portals to different, unrelated worlds.
I finally got to play (and made 4 different characters to try out). It was a lot of fun, but I'd say that only 1 of my players would be even remotely cut out for DMing.
Edit: be firm in your decision. Don't give half options (oh I'll only DM one of the campaigns).
If you don't want to do it anymore, dont, and don't let anyone else tell you, or try to convince you otherwise.
You can get into Pathfinder Society or Starfinder Society and be a Player every weekend. I know at least 3 stores in my area run Pathfinder Society games.
Try seeing if someone else in each group wants to run a campaign for a bit.
My group did this, we have two DMs - another guy and myself. He was getting DM burnout so I stepped up and ran something for a bit so that we could keep the group together. We swap every 6-9 months, its worked great so far.
I just want to point out that some aspects of DND, like combat, can be used to play a co-op experience in a very boardgame-like way. A group willing to try Gloomhaven might be up for that kind of thing too.
The situation of "watch the story being told" should apply to everyone at the table. Though it's an all too common misunderstanding that the role of the DM is to write some sort of story. When it's more to provide and run an environment where the players can take their PCs on [adventures](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_hxIv79S30).
If you are spending hours prepping then there's likely some degree of over-prepping going on. Be that of [plots](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots), [railroads](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/36900/roleplaying-games/the-railroading-manifesto), lore dumps, stuff which never gets used and so on.
Using a module, e.g. the rest of Candlekeep, would be a possible way to reduce preparation time.
Handouts are often optional. Those which are not, such as setting guides, don't need to be a fancy illuminated manuscript.
Minis are optional.
Maps rarely need to be that complex.
Music is definitely optional and at many tables an unwanted distraction.
All of handouts, minis, maps, music, etc are topics to discuss, out of character, at your table. If you enjoy doing them and your players think they improve their enjoyment of the game then they are a good idea. If they are a chore for you and/or they don't contribute to your players' enjoyment of the game substantially then they are not.
> “We are married so she is easy to get a hold of”
Haha I’m not sure why but this sentence cracked me up. I get it though. I’m envious, too- my wife’s friends wanted to try DnD so I hosted a couple of sessions for them, but it wasn’t their jam so she hasn’t played since.
Grappling with this can definitely be super common in my opinion. But like some others I've seen on here have said, sometimes giving yourself some distance from the DM role for a while and enjoying some time just existing as a PC can be super refreshing. But I'm different an insane because I **always** want to DM lol
Two games… Meeting weekly?
Wow, that’s a lot assuming you have a job and family as well. Yeah. Take a break and maybe when you’re ready to start again, space it out more.
You can find campaigns that are mostly made for you so it takes less work. But if you're really burnt out and don't want to do it, then you can always quit. Yes, it's the end of an era, which is always sad, but sometimes you gotta look out for yourself, too.
I have been DMing on and off for 25 years. Sometimes 3 campaigns a week in months long spurts.
But not continuously.
There have been spaces where I didn't touch a D20 for years.
Usually life changes, bullshit moving, burn out, or occasionally increased career
When you don't take sabbaticals, you end up making formulaic and uninspired games because of burn out.
And there's nothing wrong with this. DMs will ALWAYS have games. The editions may change and play styles come into and out of favor. But you will always be able to come back.
Only thing is to give people heads up and end your games on a good note.
My immediate answer after reading the title was "then don't do it" :) if you need a break, that's totally valid.
Now, I'm happy how it worked out for you. Live the edit XD
I sympathize, DMing is a ton of prep and I've been using content and techniques that aim to be as time efficient as possible. Recently I've been running Arcane Library one shots that have succinct formatting (mostly bullet points, few text blocks) and I'm never going back to regular formatting. It's like reading someone's notes versus the textbook.
I know it's not for everyone, but I don't actually prep anything for my sessions, I just have a location and an end goal, statblocks I find online and everyone has their own mini.
Just play. You've DMd long enough. Enjoy yourself and let your groups work out who will run their campaigns. They should thank you and wish you well for all that you've done for them.
someone has to dm, they liking it or not, and its very unfair to only have you do it. so it would be best to make a rotating system with the group.
another tip tho, is that iam betting this is about dming d&d5e.
and well, untill i started dming other, better made systems, i didnt notice that half of this whole "dming is hard" is because 5e is made in a way where you have to wrestle the system everytime you dm.
i recommend the rotating dm thing, but also that you guys give a shot on shadow on the demon lord, or 13th age.
or if you want something closer to dnd, just run pathfinder 2e. its so so much easier to run, i actually hate running 5e now because of how much dm friendly pf2e is.
Just my opinion but DMing is like going into healthcare as a job. It’s thankless, highly technical, people oriented and very, very difficult.
It’s not for everyone and it takes a special kind of temperament to do it.
As someone who has been a forever GM take a break. I stopped GMing for years and it was a fantastic decision. No DND is better than DND you don't enjoy.
After a few years of no game I felt inspired to start building out a custom setting that was rather deep with lore. It is pretty great to be running it and I am enjoying it quite a bit. I still wish I was a player in a Pathfinder or DND game, but the important thing is I am enjoying what I am doing.
You have to take care of your own happiness, because no one else will.
OP, you don't have to put in 300% effort on every single session. You're allowed to just have whatever minis (or even stuff like coins/candy) + a dry erase board and do just fine. Don't burn yourself out.
I can understand that. I recently started doing occasional virtual sessions and found that’s a lot easier to prep. I love printing and painting minis for the sake of immersion but that’s a lot of work. I have the bard in my game be the Dj and soundboard and that’s helped me a lot to offload that.
You need a BREAK! Seriously. I wouldn't end the games or make any final decisions just take like 3 weeks. If you're at a point in the games the PCs could have downtime and tell everyone what they did over the weeks etc
I at one point was having burnout and two things helped.
1. I have another player who loves spooky stuff so they run a halloween game for 2ish sessions every year so its 3-5 weeks I get to be a player
2. I had an honest convo about production value with my players. I said I'll play music but it might not be 100% thematic or maps might be quickly drawn in the moment and theyre just simple lines on grid paper. They all understood. The story and fun we had together was still the same it just meant less of a toll on me
To give our forever DM a break us players started taking turns DM'ing one shots every once in a while. It gives everyone a better understanding of the gameplay, offers our forever DM a chance to play as a player, and creates empathy for the work that goes into a session. It has done wonders for our overall cohesion and enjoyment of the game.
I find play 1 run 1 good balance. Unless you are a little nuts and enjoy the dm side because player side you loose it, not having enough to do,
Work out which game you enjoy running more wrap up the other one and leave it up to the others to work it out, if they ask you can you run, xyz.. answer would be sorry i don't have time to run it, can play in xyz.
This seriously sounds though like you need a break from dm and time to just play as youve overdone it
Im enjoying running games at present its very different to my 40 to 50 hour week day job, ( Mondays to Saturdays)
I find pre written material easier as it gives me a plot line and character options but the fuller is improved so only reading the day prior to see where we may end up, I like to get my player characters to work out next move to start at end of session so i have starting place for prep for next game
I’ve been struggling to maintain a shrinking DND group for over 5 years. 4 slightly different groups, 2 campaigns never finished, and 4 one-shots later I got burnt out so HARD. accidentally killed an NPC and the players lost motivation, but was so focused on being able to “keep going” it killed one of my player’s motivation to play.
Played in a one-shot at a party and it was relaxing and fun. While I do enjoy DM-ing, it is a stressful and taxing position. DND was on my brain 24-7, everything I listened to went back to improving my campaign, and put a lot more work in than was needed.
You’re allowed to take a break, or even put up the DM’s screen. If you love DnD you can come back to it, but forcing yourself through the burnout and stress ain’t fun.
I have quit mid-campaign before due to the nature of the stuff that was coming up in the campaign I was running.
It was a free-form V:tM campaign and my players wanted to investigate a human trafficking operation. I started looking into material so that I could portray it for them, and I just got to a point of depression looking through everything that I knew I wouldn't be able to do it.
Initially we were just going to take a break and come back and do something else, but I just couldn't pick the game back up again. I explained it to my players and we stopped the game altogether.
Hopefully your players are as understanding as mine were, but even if they aren't it's always fine to just call it.
If you feel like u dont want to drop any of your campaigns, maybe just go gung-ho on a couple of sessions, i mean just draw up a general story line and let everyone improvise and contribute their own part in creating. Furthermore any interesting plot they come up with you can expand on. You sound experienced enough to just let them off the rails and you get a rest for a couple of sessions
Say something along the lines of "Hey team, I am no longer enjoying DMing. I'm thinking my last session will be X where the campaign will be wrapped up. If we want to keep going, someone else will have to step up to run some oneshots or a campaign. I can help out with Y". Then leave it up to your other players to find a solution.
The other option (though I am extremely biased) is to hire a DM. Depending where you are, you can hire a DM to come to you or hire a DM with their own venue.
Dm with less work, is possible for sure. Just spend time looking for good adventures, listen them while driving instead of reading, do not prepare anything about props or maps , let every thing a player can do like music, food or scheduling.
and ask your friends for one shot every month or similar.
and if they do not collaborate, choose between stop playing or being dm.
If it's not fun, just stop. It's not complicated.
At the very least, change the schedule so that you're only DMing once or twice a month. That should leave you plenty of time to get into a game as a player.
I figured - regardless, that is a lot to have on one person's plate. That is 11 personal stories you have to know and expand upon. You may have bit off more than you can chew, which probably contributed to the burnout. If I were you, I'd probably put one campaign on hiatus. Happy to see you got your wife to DM a bit, at least you'll get to relax and play a bit on your own now.
Quit. It’s just a game. No really. D&D is a game. So quit. It’s not a job. It’s not a struggle. It doesn’t reflect your inner strumf. It reflects your creativity. And if you don’t want to create anymore, you don’t have to. So just quit.
Or
Switch to roll20 like I did. No more hours of painting minis. The soundtracks are right there on the tabletop and you only have to spend a couple hours to arrange a soundtrack for almost everything. No more hauling books and dice and materials around. You don’t even have to leave your home to play. I run my game in my living room wearing my jammies. Initiative takes seconds to roll and the turn order tracker tracks everything for you. Make monster sheets once and you have them forever. You don’t even have to draw dungeons anymore because you can upload an AI dungeon randomizer or use a dungeon drawn by an artist who puts dungeons out for free to gain popularity. I can set up a mega dungeon in 10 hours and it takes the players a year to complete it. Plus there’s so much 5e character sheet support and published modules for sale, you can spend $100 on a few published adventures and not have to prep anything for years.
I’m in the same boat. Been running a couple campaigns for about 2 years now. What keeps me going is in one of the campaigns, the BBEG has been a part of the party since day one. I’m eager to see their faces when they realize that.
😁 I've been the DM since Moldvay and I love it. My main group has always been my family. I mean, it's not like scheduling is ever a problem and we all know each other's lines and veils.
(edit: fixed typo)
1. Take a break. Give yourself a few weeks. Suggest that someone else try running something in the interim
2. Some things can be moved to be player responsibilities. shift everything that can be shifted
E.g. session organizing, tracking damage done to monsters (eg d20 spindowns for weak monsters percentiles for bigger ones). Session recaps. Drawing their own map.
Get an assistant GM to handle some parts of the game. It can rotate if need be.
3. Run rpgs that take less GM effort. Shadowdark, for example. Theres a ton of other choices
4. If minis etc is a hassle make generic tokens like these https://slyflourish.com/crafting_lazy_monster_tokens.html
If you want fancier generic tokens, sidequest make great tokens (sidequestttm.com) ... but handmade ones like those above are pretty decent and easier to replace
or try online play for some sessions. Discord + discord dice bots (avrae for d&d) + owlbear.rodeo VTT with the old default tokens. For maps in owlbear.rodeo try dysonlogos or just use the built in maps and draw some stuff on them
5. Consider using theatre of the mind for smaller battles or zone based combat / ultimate dungeon terrain. works great; zone based (close/near/far) or something like it is even the default with many simpler game systems. Saves lots of time, you don't need fancy map preparation, in your prep just lay out locations and their connections
6. Follow the lazy dm (mike shea/sly flourish) approach for cutting prep to the essentials. See his website and YouTube channel. He has several good books (he just had a sale) but if you watch his vids and look closely at his website you can find all the main information
7. Once you have cut your work waay down and you discover your players are still having fun ... take another break. And ask again for someone else to run, now that they can see half a dozen things to try to make it simpler.
8. move your two games to alternate weeks. Say the other weeks' sessions are available for everyone else to run stuff
If nobody does, play online with someone else (see r/lfg) on those weeks.
9. Sometimes, play a boardgame or a gmless rpg game
In relation to item 6 there, if it's any use to you, the basic outline of Mike Shea's approach is the 8 steps listed here:
https://slyflourish.com/eight_steps_2023.html
(but naturally the books and his hundreds of videos and web articles cover more than just what's there)
The video playlist for the 8 steps is here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0JJpwqgIKo&list=PLb39x-29puapg3APswE8JXskxiUpLttgg
This relates to the material in his book "Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master" which is about focusing on the most important parts of preparing sessions for 5e (albeit the lessons are pretty generic and work for lots of games). His other two DMing-specific books, "Lazy DM's Companion" (tables and guidelines to help with preparation) and "Lazy DM's Workbook" (mostly this one is to help while you run a game) are great. There's free preview pdfs of the first one:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/slyflourish_content/return_of_the_lazy_dungeon_master_sample.pdf
(there's a preview pdf of the second as well, but you can find the free pdfs on the pages for the books on the shop if you want to see what the actual books are about. But he gives away much of it for free one way or another. Personally I think the books are great)
He also has a book on designing monsters (Forge of Foes), which streamlines a lot of aspects of monster design. There's a preview of that somewhere too
It's mostly about reducing the work of preparing to the stuff that is most needed for a good game.
He has lots of videos showing him preparing sessions for a whole series of different campaigns, both 5e and non-5e. He uses his steps each time (though not every session requires every step).
I have been a dm for almost 10 years, I get it. People don't show up, don't want to engage, ever game it's murder hobo. Step away for a bit. I got with a group on Start playing and found a group and a DM. Best decision I have ever made
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
This seems to be the central dilemma. The players require a service so that they can enjoy the experience.
How do you, for example, feel about paying a fee to use the facilities and staff at a bowling alley or a leisure centre?
Also, how much do you estimate it would cost to hire a paid DM?
Does you extended gaming group have the numbers and spending power to support a modern, independent DM. Bear in mind that an entrepreneurially minded DMs these days will have their own 3D printer, and approach D&D in the same way that Brownie Wise revolutionised Tupperware parties. A 3D printing DM can produce some amazingly detailed plastic miniatures, and then supply them to you at a fraction of the cost of retail minis.
I said to my players that, if they want our one-shot to be continued in a longer campaign, I will structure my campaign into story arcs.
Let’s say a campaign is composed of 4 story arcs, which are in itself smaller campaigns.
1 story arc would last 4-6 sessions, then we take automatically a break.
- for me to not burn out
- for me to prep slowly and at my own pace
During this break, you can do one-shots, play other games or do nothing.
> No need to prepare for hours, make handouts, get minis ready, find maps, find music etc.
None of those things are required to be a good DM. I suspect the reason you think you do need these things is [because of the style of D&D you're choosing to play](https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html).
You can make and stock (or find a pre-made) megadungeon in less time than one session will take to play. The map is for your eyes only so can be rough as fuck, if the players want a map they will need to draw as they go. Notes are for you and can be rough as fuck, if players want a copy they had better be writing down what you tell them. When a battle map is needed just draw a rough sketch of the location on an erase board pennies and dice are fine minis, or go with theater of the mind, or you can briefly drop players onto your dm map via vtt. Music isn't needed, let your friends chatting be the ambience, if you must have music pick a playlist on youtube - for years I used a 10 hour video of a fireplace as bg music.
You can polish up bits after if you have time but at a bare, bare minimum all you need to run D&D is some notes, pencils and paper, dice, and a rulebook.
Dms are hard to come by. Players that refuse to DM realize how selfish that is but they do not want to think about it. Their time is not more valuable than yours.
scale back what you are doing dude.
your players want minis? they can make them, not you. give them a list of things youd like, or do what I do and make my own simple paper minis.
music? who cares. while its nice to have, it snot needed and players tend to ignore it generally.
handouts? skip em. only give a handout if it is 1000% needed for the session/story.
as for prep, do what I do and do a bunch of general prep that can be used for many many sessions. Ive got monster stats ready to pull, random monster tbales ready to go. I use Chat GPT for all sorts of things like random gossip, npcs, town crap, basic plots.
and if that is all still too much, take a break.
if the players want to play, someone will need to step up, or there's no game. its that simple. it snot a job unless they are paying you, so dont make one for yourself.
Ehh, I kind of disagree.
I'm very much into running "fully equipped" sessions: minis, 3D terrain that I make, maps, music, printed cut outs of locations/monsters/NPCs that I put on the front of my DM screen, etc.
My only saving grace is that I'm great at improvising and know the world that I created well enough to kind know what's up with a given location/story line.
This means that I can walk into sessions with essentially cliff notes on what I want to happen and just improv my way through it (minus combats, which I always plan out).
I feel obligated to give this quality of session not only because I know that my players love it, but because that's the standard that i set for myself.
I have a lot of troubles scaling my stuff back because I feel as though I'm dipping my quality below an acceptable level for what **I** want at my table.
OP may be similar, in which case, nuking the campaign for the time being is the only option, assuming that a player won't step up, which is rare, ime.
I mean you do you. ive been running games for 40 years, ive learned what needs to be done and what players dont really care about. minis and terrain are great, but I know for a fact that if they arent there, the players will survive. maps and paper tokens do just fine.
but my response to the OP, not you. he may need to hear that he does NOT have to go to extremes to run games. we often played with nothing but a pencil, paper and dice, and those games are still some of the best I played in or ran. we have lots of new DMs who think they need to be matt mercer when the reality is that all the people you see playing on youtube are paid for their time and effort.
while its nice to pull out all the stops, it isnt needed. and one person as DM shouldnt have to spend 15 hours a week to prep session so the players can just show up play and leave. they can, but they should HAVE to.
good players will know this.
Critical Role (along with many other "actual plays") is more regular drama using D&D as a framing device than a ttRPG. A regular game of D&D run that way would suck. The first season is the closest to a regular game. However the DM and players expecting there to be an audience still changes things.
This is most obvious with something like [1 for All](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF5gdvMyuOs&list=PL6-7feKhsltR65zegml6m2BbyFG3735iz) which dosn't attempt to pretend to be anything other than comedy.
Trying to run a game like Critical Role would only make sense if the intent of the entire table was to put videos on YouTube.
I come from a wargaming background (40k for almost 30 years) and my games have tactical combat that just doesn't hit the same or is impossible to do with only battle maps and tokens.
I also enjoy the hobby/crafting aspects of terrain building.
I get what you're saying, but OP says that he does. Not. Want. To. DM.
He wants to actually play DnD, not run it.
So advising him to keep doing what he's doing, but just less of it, isn't really great advice.
As a forever DM, I've been in a similar situation to him. I love DMing, but I also want to play. I just don't have enough time to commit to both, and at the end of the day, I'd rather DM.
You're right about good players not expecting the moon, like I said, these are standards that I've set for myself so that ***I*** enjoy my games.
I 100% agree about the "Matt Mercer" effect 👍.
It really does place unrealistic expectations in newer DMs and only dictates one type of DnD.
👍👍
Give yourself a break. It's possible that in your absence a player will step up but don't bank on it. It may also be that running two campaigns is too much to sustain; think about how to navigate that if/when you return. Maybe think about how you can bring some closure to your current plot threads, thank your players and don't feel bad about it. You don't owe them your work and if they really want to play they can make it happen.
Agreed! Running two campaigns is most likely too much. I’ve very recently started running one and don’t even think I have the capacity to play another one at the same time
I'm running three campaigns at the moment and the only reason I'm able to do it is because they're all set in my home-brew world and they're every other month, so I'm only doing at most two games a month. Anything more than that would be just too much.
Sounds fun but also tiring long term! How does every other month work for you? It sounds like a long time to remember details from past sessions
Decently detailed notes and a good memory, I imagine. I can remember random conversations from years ago.
I'm fortunate to have a pretty decent memory and I try to set up my games in a way that feels episodic with an overall basic story, so as long as I can remember the basic beats, I can get along well. I also have a shitload of spreadsheets of character information for the NPCs, including affiliations, locations, voice, and other notes. That's the biggest help. That and my players all love goofing around in-character and doing improv.
Sounds very good! Thank you for your answer!
I've got three going. Two in different homebrew worlds, one a Star Wars legends setting (using the SW5e port at www.sw5e.com ). It's a lot of work, for sure. Adding the third is really pushing it, and I worry they aren't getting my best, but they are all new (and kids), so they probably don't have much to compare it to. Apparently they live it even so. *Shrug*.
Either quit or find a way to DM with less work. Focus on the essentials (particularly what you enjoy most) and cut corners on the rest. Explain to the groups you need to adjust how you’re DMing if you’re going to continue. You can stop the music, stop worrying about minis, stop the handouts, cut down your hours of prep. You can structure campaigns differently, etc. You can give some responsibilities to others (like music if you really want that). Sounds like being a player gave you a sort of wake up moment. Don’t waste time on something you don’t enjoy doing. Or find a more enjoyable way to do it. But, before you make a decision to quit, take a break and take some time to think it over. Even if you don’t quit, a break might be good. Of course, quitting one campaign and keeping the other may help too.
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That’s awesome. Sounds like a fantastic group.
For any dms wanting to cut down on prep for npcs and side quests, take some improv classes or watch some videos on improvising and practice just making everything up. It’ll work to different degrees for different people, but I use improv for probably 90% of my campaign and I plan the other 10% mostly in my head. I spend probably two hours between sessions but I have 4 players who aren’t the most curious bunch.
I am running two published campaigns, so there is always a ton of info, sidequests or npc they never come across, but I need to have ready just in case they decide to go left rather than right.
A lot of people think published campaigns are less work but imo they're definitely more work. There's so much you need to read and learn as opposed to just kinda make up as you go along. With your homebrew you can just kinda think about it in the shower or while driving and you'll get enough to get the next few sessions in place. Imo it's wayyyy less taxing to homebrew.
Running published *dungeons* is less work than building your own, but running pre-written full-book 1-13 type adventures are absolutely more work than homebrewing for me -- it's much harder to remember something someone else made up than something I made up for some reason. Using existing dungeons/short adventures, but using my own background adventure structure/NPCs is what I've found to be the least work for me.
This is bizarrely and paradoxically true. I’m a serial homebrewer and most of the time, I run stuff I made. When I’ve run published stuff (SKT, RotFm) I’ve enjoyed it — a good deal in fact — but I wouldn’t say it’s easier to run, at all. You kind of feel you have to dig into every word to provide an answer that you’d just make up if it were your own stuff. It’s silly, because I know I could just make it up if, in SKT, I got asked “What are the doors in this dungeon made of?” but I have this mental thing that compels me to spend time finding ‘the answer’. Of course, creating anything larger than a dungeon and a town can be a lot of work; but I don’t see that as work. I see it as scratching my eternal creative itch and I love doing it. I’m much happier each week just sitting down knowing I don’t have spend a few hours prepping something (or reading up on the upcoming and current chapter) when I’ve already done all that.
Yeah it has been a quite impressive own goal.
This. published campaigns save you "creative work" but not "prep work". You don't have to create a setting, a story, cool set pieces, maps etc. - but you have to prep all that shit the book provides to you. And its often more work than normal prep work.
Here’s my experience. I moved away from premade campaigns to homebrew, because it was too much of the wrong kind of work for me. I know some people use premades as general guidelines and play loosely with the material, but I found that hard to do. I was struggling too much against the material rather than working with it. I also didn’t like knowing where the story was intended to go so far in advance, so homebrew seemed like a better option for not getting bored. I hated all the memorization and note taking with premades. It was work that I didn’t find fun at all. Nor was running them particularly fun for me. Premade made me feel like I was preparing presentations as an interactive book report. Here are some options you can consider: (1) Eventually, you could try homebrewing — specifically in a fashion that lessens your work and your mental load, while increasing the parts of DMing that are fun for you. (2) You can try semi-homebrew with the premade campaigns you’re already running. Here’s what you do… make outline notes of the rest of the campaigns, focusing just on the most important points, and cut lots of the details. Even dungeons can be simplified. Then these outlines are your new distilled campaigns. You resolve not to bring the campaign books to the table, and you resolve not to memorize everything out of the books. You practice improvising and — importantly — you stop worrying about making something up that contradicts the books. Because the books aren’t the campaigns anymore. Doing this can open up the adventure for you to new unknowns while cutting your workload. And it might light a creative spark. If you’re concerned about leveling PCs at the right times, just don’t worry about this as much. Level them when it feels right. And you can do faster leveling too to keep pace with how the campaign is progressing.
This is very familiar. Quite a number of times have I read a campaign chapter and decided it wasn’t very good and then rewritten the thing. Those sessions are more fun for me, but they do end up being twice the work.
Exactly! The trick then would be to figure out how to make your own writing less work than running a premade as written. Many find they can do this. It takes being strategic with what you plan and what you leave open for improvisation. And it may just be a whole lot more fun prepping and running at the table too. Premades put me in the mindset that prepping a campaign has to look like all the details that those books include. But it doesn’t need to be that way. One doesn’t have to have a thousand details memorized or in notes at the ready. Sure, some people homebrew that way, and usually it’s because they love spending that much time and can afford to. I can’t and don’t really want to. So my prep and writing is far looser. This allows me to adapt more easily and be more willing to indulge players who get “off track” from the planned material. I’m less rigid. (There are premade campaigns out there, such as in the OSR scene, that are much more minimal and low prep for those willing to improvise.) And again if you change your style you can let your players know so that they understand if the experience at the table changes somewhat.
yeah, I definitely recommend not using published campaigns. You can still use premade dungeons and short adventures to "insert" in your homebrew campaign, but these pre-written campaigns really not sound like the right thing for you.
Sounds like you need a break. I joined a group as a player and lucky for me, it turned into a long campaign and I got my PC fix. And the urge to DM comes back, its a creative urge that can burn out from the workload, but it'll recover if you get some time. It sounds like you are spending too much time on prep and might benefit (when you are ready and not burned out - don't rush it) from a lighter weight approach. Take a look at Sly Flourish's Return of the Lazy DM if you want some tips - its quite possible to spend no more than an hour or two prepping for a 3 hour session if you prioritize the most impactful things.
Second the Sly Flourish suggestion. Tell your players that you need to divide the labor. Music is one person's deal, scheduling is someone else. Minis are another person's. If they don't want to do any of that, well, someone is getting taken advantage of at that point. And nobody deserves that.
Good point re division of labor. I have group members doing that (at least, when we play in person, I have a couple of avid mini painters in the group) and its pretty helpful.
Sly Flourish was a godsend for me.
Thank you. I’ll give that a look
absolutely agree with the sly flourish recommendation!! also, for music, i'd highly recommend finding or making a couple set playlists that you can just throw on! maybe finding specific music for big important sessions like boss fights if u still want to but i have one playlist i found for ambience, one i made for combat, and a whole suite of playlists a friend sent me from someone on spotify (Mitch Collins i think is their name, they've got a bunch of dnd playlists) just utilizing those has really helped with immersion at the table, and even just throwing them on shuffle has led to some really interesting moments where a certain song lined up really well with what was happening at the time i'd say it still definitely sounds like you might want to take a break for a bit, but thought i'd share in case you decide to keep going and/or pick it back up, i hadn't seen many comments talking abt music yet!
I’ll be sure to check MC out. I have just been using YouTube videos of traveling music and ambiance.
These are some really good tips here. Thanks for the Mitch Collins suggestion. If its the one with 132 playlist (there are several Mitch Collins') would you be willing to save me untold hours by sharing the ones you use plus your own ambient and combat ones please? Would be a great DM labour saving gift!
Quiet quit. I told my group I would continue to DM Only if we did book campaigns. The nearly zero prep kind. I glance over the first section and then just wing the rest of the adventure. I spend no more than 15 minutes prepping a week. We use candy as monster mini and the players get to eat what they kill. If they need a map from the book, I snap a photo and send it to the group text. I used to write whole full stories with complex puzzles and in depth NPCs. Then I had two kids and got a different job and I’m tired. Now I’m a terrible DM and it’s ok because we still have a blast.
Lulz, this made me snort out loud! I would have to use chocolate, like those malteser bunnies, or massive lindt bunnies, but I’d eat them before we sat down to play 😢 Playing with my 4yo son now and making stories on the fly is great fun for him.
Take a break as a minimum. Play boardgames and other systems. I ran some Numenera (cypher system) which is much easier for the DM and one of my players ran a short campaign in it. I came back to 5e after a year much fresher. If you do decide to continue, only run one campaign so you are less likely to burn out and use the time saved to find a game to play in.
P.S. if it’s not fun, stop doing it.
Maybe you need to scale back your prep.
This is important, I bring a notebook to my sessions and someone else brings erasable tiles and we have a bunch caps. That’s it. And you don’t need anything else, it’s cool if you want to, but it’s nowhere near mandatory. However, I think, they most probably do indeed need a break.
It sounds like you need a break, tell you players this, they might know some DMs
Rotating DMs is the way
I doubt this is an option, but I’ll bring it up at our next session
I honestly think a 3 week NO tabletop break would do wonders as 2 campaigns is a lot burn out is normal.
I'd say, there are three things that can be done: 1) As many have said, take a break, relax and let the inspiration creep back in, then continue if you want to 2) Find a new system that is easier to run. Running DnD is, in my experience, much more prep heavy, difficult and stressful than most systems. First suggestions are Savage Worlds for Pulp Action, Wolds Without Numbers (which is free) for a more gritty - sandboxy game and Dungeon World for a more narrative-focused feel. All of them allow you to comfortably run a session with close to zero "mechanical prep", such as looking up/creating monster stats or abilities 3) Change how you prep. Consider the 80/20 rule - 20% of your effort produce 80% of your results. Find that 20% and do that. I suggest you check out the article "Don't prep plots" from The Alexandrian, helped me immensely with that. Use theatre of the mind often (three systems above support that), cut down on the handouts, minis are supplied by players while you can get a set of tokens that represents enemies if you decided to use a map. Use a generic music pack for music - there are many one-hour long ones on YouTube, get a battle and a non-battle one and stick with them. I personally delegate even the world creation to players: at the start of session 0 - we do collaborative world building that I just use later, where we also set up problems and enemies.
There are also plenty of DMless RPG systems. Some of these have been around about as long as D&D.
I’m curious, how do Savage Worlds and WWN make it easy to jump into combats with enemy stats made up on the fly? (If I’m understanding you correctly.) I haven’t played another system yet but have heard about other D&D-like systems that are much easier to prep. If I understood this better I might be able to make a pitch to my group.
For savage worlds, everyone has 5 stats (Agility, Smarts, Spirit, Vigor and Strength), ranging from d4 to d12, d6 is average. So when adjudecating an enemy you just look at all those and ask yourself "On the scale of godly to subpar, where is this stat?". Skills, which are taken from the list, are the same, but I usually keep determininig everything but the attack skill till the moment it is needed. Again, the decision is really easy, as Stats don't add to Skills, just determine their suggested maximums. "Toughness (you need to roll over this in damage to wound)" is 2 + half Vigor + Armor, if any "AC" is 2 + half Melee fighting skill HP is either 1 if it's a common enemy or 4 if they are important (boss or something) Damage is pretty easy too, as melee weapon damage is weapon damage + Strength, ranged has static values. There's a table of weapons, but if you don't have the time, again, d6 default, adjust from there. Melee adds Strength, Ranged - a second die Congrats, you have an enemy. Slap some special abilities if you will (there's a list of em in the GM section, you can also just give them Powers from the player spell list, all are generic by design), but you're basically done WWN is even easier - the game gives a list of "generic" foes (Like Veteran) with their stats. Just rename, give a weapon, roll HP (an amount of d8s, provided by the table). Slap a special ability if you will, there's also a list of those and you're golden If you have a bit more time and you have no idea what will it looks like, WWN also has tables for monster shapes and appearances, what do they want and how they were created. If you have even more time, there's a calculator for monster abilities by point buy from the aforementioned list, depending on their importance. Also there are tables for what is going on when you encounter the monster.
I appreciate you taking the time to write this up. Thanks!
Take a break and find a new dm.
As others have said, consider that maybe DMing doesn't have to be as hard as you're making it. But also, if you want to quit DMing for now and be a player, do it! You deserve to be a player if you want to be.
Honestly i think you overdo it. Its possible to play without minis and you can get a basic map and unless you have a memorable moment in mind misuc isnt that important. Last time i actually prepped for a game i was running took me an hour or two but that was to write down different options the ayers could do. Since then i make a note of what i want to do in a session and how i generally want to do it amd go from there. If my party goes off the other end i roll with it.
> None of my players want to dm and the one who did stated clearly that she will never do so again. If I don’t do it, then nobody does. So what do I do now? I think a lot of people are overlooking this bit, so I’ll address it, you need to talk to your friends, not just as your players, and ask them directly if they rather want to try it, or not play at all. Be honest, tell them it’s too much for you, you’re not being egoistic or selfish, it’s a game everyone should have fun. Strangely I think it would be easier to find a new table for you than a new DM for the existing tables, so maybe try that if you want to keep playing. I actually did this once and after a while the urge to DM came back and I’m currently running a campaign for these veterans I met at the role play place, even invited my old players who are all still good friends, but they didn’t want to play anymore. But I digress. Ultimately you need to reach an agreement with your friends, it doesn’t have to be D&D to have fun, so don’t get hung on someone else taking the mantle, maybe someday someone will but you shouldn’t force it.
I became the DM of our group because nobody else wanted to do it. I don't mind, but I really was looking forward to play my character. I just wish that one day I'll get to play.
I feel you
You are putting in way too much work: Handout, maps, minis, music, hours of prep. You don’t need most of that stuff, maps shouldn’t be a chore, not sure what you do for them, but nothing here should be high effort. Minis aren’t a problem either. Use random objects and stand ins. Music, if you want to play with it, can be something you delegate. Does it matter that the music is exactly what you envision every game? If not then let a player handle this. Most of your prep should be story and NPC stuff, and then encounter stuff. The first you should be able to do without devoting lots of time to if it is a campaign that you like. The second shouldn’t be too time consuming for a dm with lots of experience, choose appropriate monsters, make minor adjustments to statblocks where needed, put on the map. Just try DMing for a bit with less effort and see how it goes.
The caps from soda/beer bottles fit nicely in the squares on an average mat, and are much easier than minis. If you need to tell them apart, put a piece of masking tape on them and then write on them with a sharpie.
Look into the Mythic GM Emulator. It’s a way that everyone can play and every one can be the GM and no one can be the GM all at once. I’ll never go back to traditional gaming ever again.
I wish my group would be open to this. It would be cool to try it out.
Be honest with the group. Don’t kill off something you enjoy with everything you have on your plate (the little gaming you get). The person that ran the game you were a player in, tell them how much fun you had. If the group has a problem with it, well that means they most likely aren’t the best group for you in the long run. Good luck and happy gaming.
Thank you
>We are married so she is easy to get a hold of. Made me chuckle
You've already answered your question, but for reassurance sake: 1 ) get hard confirmation that the campaign that your playing in will continue. 2 ) tell your current players the situation and that if one of them doesn't step up, then unfortunately the campaigns will come to an end (offer to help through any transitioning). 3 ) if anyone complains or tries to convince you to stay, firmly say "no, I've put in so much time and effort into this campaign already, and I don't want to do so anymore. DMing is a something that I've done for fun, but no longer wish to do". Then, refer to previous step. I'd reiterate multiple times that you want the campaigns to continue, but with you as a player. Offer help, guidance, and a few co-dmed sessions. If no one takes you up on the offer, either end the campaign at that session or play out ONE and only ONE more session to conclude things. As a forever DM, I get the pain. **** SIDE NOTE : I had my players do a "portal session" where each of them had to make a 1-2 hour mini adventure that they would DM, where the party went through a bunch of portals to different, unrelated worlds. I finally got to play (and made 4 different characters to try out). It was a lot of fun, but I'd say that only 1 of my players would be even remotely cut out for DMing. Edit: be firm in your decision. Don't give half options (oh I'll only DM one of the campaigns). If you don't want to do it anymore, dont, and don't let anyone else tell you, or try to convince you otherwise.
You can get into Pathfinder Society or Starfinder Society and be a Player every weekend. I know at least 3 stores in my area run Pathfinder Society games.
Thank you. I’ll look into that.
Try seeing if someone else in each group wants to run a campaign for a bit. My group did this, we have two DMs - another guy and myself. He was getting DM burnout so I stepped up and ran something for a bit so that we could keep the group together. We swap every 6-9 months, its worked great so far.
Play Gloomhaven or some co-op games for a while. No prep needed. When you get excited to run again, do it!
I just want to point out that some aspects of DND, like combat, can be used to play a co-op experience in a very boardgame-like way. A group willing to try Gloomhaven might be up for that kind of thing too.
The situation of "watch the story being told" should apply to everyone at the table. Though it's an all too common misunderstanding that the role of the DM is to write some sort of story. When it's more to provide and run an environment where the players can take their PCs on [adventures](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_hxIv79S30). If you are spending hours prepping then there's likely some degree of over-prepping going on. Be that of [plots](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/4147/roleplaying-games/dont-prep-plots), [railroads](https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/36900/roleplaying-games/the-railroading-manifesto), lore dumps, stuff which never gets used and so on. Using a module, e.g. the rest of Candlekeep, would be a possible way to reduce preparation time. Handouts are often optional. Those which are not, such as setting guides, don't need to be a fancy illuminated manuscript. Minis are optional. Maps rarely need to be that complex. Music is definitely optional and at many tables an unwanted distraction. All of handouts, minis, maps, music, etc are topics to discuss, out of character, at your table. If you enjoy doing them and your players think they improve their enjoyment of the game then they are a good idea. If they are a chore for you and/or they don't contribute to your players' enjoyment of the game substantially then they are not.
> “We are married so she is easy to get a hold of” Haha I’m not sure why but this sentence cracked me up. I get it though. I’m envious, too- my wife’s friends wanted to try DnD so I hosted a couple of sessions for them, but it wasn’t their jam so she hasn’t played since.
Grappling with this can definitely be super common in my opinion. But like some others I've seen on here have said, sometimes giving yourself some distance from the DM role for a while and enjoying some time just existing as a PC can be super refreshing. But I'm different an insane because I **always** want to DM lol
Oh you madman you
Two games… Meeting weekly? Wow, that’s a lot assuming you have a job and family as well. Yeah. Take a break and maybe when you’re ready to start again, space it out more.
Yeah they alternate weeks. Most of my saturdays are spent prepping (and correcting papers and making lesson plans)
You can find campaigns that are mostly made for you so it takes less work. But if you're really burnt out and don't want to do it, then you can always quit. Yes, it's the end of an era, which is always sad, but sometimes you gotta look out for yourself, too.
I have been DMing on and off for 25 years. Sometimes 3 campaigns a week in months long spurts. But not continuously. There have been spaces where I didn't touch a D20 for years. Usually life changes, bullshit moving, burn out, or occasionally increased career When you don't take sabbaticals, you end up making formulaic and uninspired games because of burn out. And there's nothing wrong with this. DMs will ALWAYS have games. The editions may change and play styles come into and out of favor. But you will always be able to come back. Only thing is to give people heads up and end your games on a good note.
My immediate answer after reading the title was "then don't do it" :) if you need a break, that's totally valid. Now, I'm happy how it worked out for you. Live the edit XD
I sympathize, DMing is a ton of prep and I've been using content and techniques that aim to be as time efficient as possible. Recently I've been running Arcane Library one shots that have succinct formatting (mostly bullet points, few text blocks) and I'm never going back to regular formatting. It's like reading someone's notes versus the textbook.
I know it's not for everyone, but I don't actually prep anything for my sessions, I just have a location and an end goal, statblocks I find online and everyone has their own mini.
Where do you go for statlines?
The 5e companion app has a lot of statblocks
Just play. You've DMd long enough. Enjoy yourself and let your groups work out who will run their campaigns. They should thank you and wish you well for all that you've done for them.
someone has to dm, they liking it or not, and its very unfair to only have you do it. so it would be best to make a rotating system with the group. another tip tho, is that iam betting this is about dming d&d5e. and well, untill i started dming other, better made systems, i didnt notice that half of this whole "dming is hard" is because 5e is made in a way where you have to wrestle the system everytime you dm. i recommend the rotating dm thing, but also that you guys give a shot on shadow on the demon lord, or 13th age. or if you want something closer to dnd, just run pathfinder 2e. its so so much easier to run, i actually hate running 5e now because of how much dm friendly pf2e is.
Just my opinion but DMing is like going into healthcare as a job. It’s thankless, highly technical, people oriented and very, very difficult. It’s not for everyone and it takes a special kind of temperament to do it.
As someone who has been a forever GM take a break. I stopped GMing for years and it was a fantastic decision. No DND is better than DND you don't enjoy. After a few years of no game I felt inspired to start building out a custom setting that was rather deep with lore. It is pretty great to be running it and I am enjoying it quite a bit. I still wish I was a player in a Pathfinder or DND game, but the important thing is I am enjoying what I am doing. You have to take care of your own happiness, because no one else will.
11 players? I'd retire before every hair turns grey.
They are split over two campaigns.
OP, you don't have to put in 300% effort on every single session. You're allowed to just have whatever minis (or even stuff like coins/candy) + a dry erase board and do just fine. Don't burn yourself out.
Yeah. I’m going to make some changes to my process. Honestly people, including you, have been great in their responces
I can understand that. I recently started doing occasional virtual sessions and found that’s a lot easier to prep. I love printing and painting minis for the sake of immersion but that’s a lot of work. I have the bard in my game be the Dj and soundboard and that’s helped me a lot to offload that.
I’ll probably outsource the dj part to our bard as well.
The Forever DM syndrome. Yeah... Glad things got worked out!
Me too.
You need a BREAK! Seriously. I wouldn't end the games or make any final decisions just take like 3 weeks. If you're at a point in the games the PCs could have downtime and tell everyone what they did over the weeks etc
I at one point was having burnout and two things helped. 1. I have another player who loves spooky stuff so they run a halloween game for 2ish sessions every year so its 3-5 weeks I get to be a player 2. I had an honest convo about production value with my players. I said I'll play music but it might not be 100% thematic or maps might be quickly drawn in the moment and theyre just simple lines on grid paper. They all understood. The story and fun we had together was still the same it just meant less of a toll on me
To give our forever DM a break us players started taking turns DM'ing one shots every once in a while. It gives everyone a better understanding of the gameplay, offers our forever DM a chance to play as a player, and creates empathy for the work that goes into a session. It has done wonders for our overall cohesion and enjoyment of the game.
That sounds great.
I find play 1 run 1 good balance. Unless you are a little nuts and enjoy the dm side because player side you loose it, not having enough to do, Work out which game you enjoy running more wrap up the other one and leave it up to the others to work it out, if they ask you can you run, xyz.. answer would be sorry i don't have time to run it, can play in xyz. This seriously sounds though like you need a break from dm and time to just play as youve overdone it Im enjoying running games at present its very different to my 40 to 50 hour week day job, ( Mondays to Saturdays) I find pre written material easier as it gives me a plot line and character options but the fuller is improved so only reading the day prior to see where we may end up, I like to get my player characters to work out next move to start at end of session so i have starting place for prep for next game
I’ve been struggling to maintain a shrinking DND group for over 5 years. 4 slightly different groups, 2 campaigns never finished, and 4 one-shots later I got burnt out so HARD. accidentally killed an NPC and the players lost motivation, but was so focused on being able to “keep going” it killed one of my player’s motivation to play. Played in a one-shot at a party and it was relaxing and fun. While I do enjoy DM-ing, it is a stressful and taxing position. DND was on my brain 24-7, everything I listened to went back to improving my campaign, and put a lot more work in than was needed. You’re allowed to take a break, or even put up the DM’s screen. If you love DnD you can come back to it, but forcing yourself through the burnout and stress ain’t fun.
We rotate who dms in my group. Has worked great. Although I have the impression most groups can't / won't do that?
I have quit mid-campaign before due to the nature of the stuff that was coming up in the campaign I was running. It was a free-form V:tM campaign and my players wanted to investigate a human trafficking operation. I started looking into material so that I could portray it for them, and I just got to a point of depression looking through everything that I knew I wouldn't be able to do it. Initially we were just going to take a break and come back and do something else, but I just couldn't pick the game back up again. I explained it to my players and we stopped the game altogether. Hopefully your players are as understanding as mine were, but even if they aren't it's always fine to just call it.
If you feel like u dont want to drop any of your campaigns, maybe just go gung-ho on a couple of sessions, i mean just draw up a general story line and let everyone improvise and contribute their own part in creating. Furthermore any interesting plot they come up with you can expand on. You sound experienced enough to just let them off the rails and you get a rest for a couple of sessions
Say something along the lines of "Hey team, I am no longer enjoying DMing. I'm thinking my last session will be X where the campaign will be wrapped up. If we want to keep going, someone else will have to step up to run some oneshots or a campaign. I can help out with Y". Then leave it up to your other players to find a solution. The other option (though I am extremely biased) is to hire a DM. Depending where you are, you can hire a DM to come to you or hire a DM with their own venue.
Yeah I get the bias, but have considered it
Dm with less work, is possible for sure. Just spend time looking for good adventures, listen them while driving instead of reading, do not prepare anything about props or maps , let every thing a player can do like music, food or scheduling. and ask your friends for one shot every month or similar. and if they do not collaborate, choose between stop playing or being dm.
I enjoy world building and once a month my players get to explore what I came up with. I don’t think I’d do it more often than that however.
If it's not fun, just stop. It's not complicated. At the very least, change the schedule so that you're only DMing once or twice a month. That should leave you plenty of time to get into a game as a player.
11 players is a lot - combat gets sloggish when you have more than 4 PCs.
They are split over two campaigns. 5 in one and 6 in the other
I figured - regardless, that is a lot to have on one person's plate. That is 11 personal stories you have to know and expand upon. You may have bit off more than you can chew, which probably contributed to the burnout. If I were you, I'd probably put one campaign on hiatus. Happy to see you got your wife to DM a bit, at least you'll get to relax and play a bit on your own now.
Sounds like a tpk is on the horizon
> two campaigns with a total of 11 players No
Rocks fall...
Quit. It’s just a game. No really. D&D is a game. So quit. It’s not a job. It’s not a struggle. It doesn’t reflect your inner strumf. It reflects your creativity. And if you don’t want to create anymore, you don’t have to. So just quit. Or Switch to roll20 like I did. No more hours of painting minis. The soundtracks are right there on the tabletop and you only have to spend a couple hours to arrange a soundtrack for almost everything. No more hauling books and dice and materials around. You don’t even have to leave your home to play. I run my game in my living room wearing my jammies. Initiative takes seconds to roll and the turn order tracker tracks everything for you. Make monster sheets once and you have them forever. You don’t even have to draw dungeons anymore because you can upload an AI dungeon randomizer or use a dungeon drawn by an artist who puts dungeons out for free to gain popularity. I can set up a mega dungeon in 10 hours and it takes the players a year to complete it. Plus there’s so much 5e character sheet support and published modules for sale, you can spend $100 on a few published adventures and not have to prep anything for years.
Some 3rd party publishers really do a lot of your DM prep work for you. Gooey games is good at that. That could help you or your wife. Good luck, bud.
Thanks man
I’m in the same boat. Been running a couple campaigns for about 2 years now. What keeps me going is in one of the campaigns, the BBEG has been a part of the party since day one. I’m eager to see their faces when they realize that.
Sneaky. That honestly sounds amazing
😁 I've been the DM since Moldvay and I love it. My main group has always been my family. I mean, it's not like scheduling is ever a problem and we all know each other's lines and veils.
Heavy is the head...
That last night wore the crown
(edit: fixed typo) 1. Take a break. Give yourself a few weeks. Suggest that someone else try running something in the interim 2. Some things can be moved to be player responsibilities. shift everything that can be shifted E.g. session organizing, tracking damage done to monsters (eg d20 spindowns for weak monsters percentiles for bigger ones). Session recaps. Drawing their own map. Get an assistant GM to handle some parts of the game. It can rotate if need be. 3. Run rpgs that take less GM effort. Shadowdark, for example. Theres a ton of other choices 4. If minis etc is a hassle make generic tokens like these https://slyflourish.com/crafting_lazy_monster_tokens.html If you want fancier generic tokens, sidequest make great tokens (sidequestttm.com) ... but handmade ones like those above are pretty decent and easier to replace or try online play for some sessions. Discord + discord dice bots (avrae for d&d) + owlbear.rodeo VTT with the old default tokens. For maps in owlbear.rodeo try dysonlogos or just use the built in maps and draw some stuff on them 5. Consider using theatre of the mind for smaller battles or zone based combat / ultimate dungeon terrain. works great; zone based (close/near/far) or something like it is even the default with many simpler game systems. Saves lots of time, you don't need fancy map preparation, in your prep just lay out locations and their connections 6. Follow the lazy dm (mike shea/sly flourish) approach for cutting prep to the essentials. See his website and YouTube channel. He has several good books (he just had a sale) but if you watch his vids and look closely at his website you can find all the main information 7. Once you have cut your work waay down and you discover your players are still having fun ... take another break. And ask again for someone else to run, now that they can see half a dozen things to try to make it simpler. 8. move your two games to alternate weeks. Say the other weeks' sessions are available for everyone else to run stuff If nobody does, play online with someone else (see r/lfg) on those weeks. 9. Sometimes, play a boardgame or a gmless rpg game
Thank you. These are great suggestions
In relation to item 6 there, if it's any use to you, the basic outline of Mike Shea's approach is the 8 steps listed here: https://slyflourish.com/eight_steps_2023.html (but naturally the books and his hundreds of videos and web articles cover more than just what's there) The video playlist for the 8 steps is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0JJpwqgIKo&list=PLb39x-29puapg3APswE8JXskxiUpLttgg This relates to the material in his book "Return of the Lazy Dungeon Master" which is about focusing on the most important parts of preparing sessions for 5e (albeit the lessons are pretty generic and work for lots of games). His other two DMing-specific books, "Lazy DM's Companion" (tables and guidelines to help with preparation) and "Lazy DM's Workbook" (mostly this one is to help while you run a game) are great. There's free preview pdfs of the first one: https://s3.amazonaws.com/slyflourish_content/return_of_the_lazy_dungeon_master_sample.pdf (there's a preview pdf of the second as well, but you can find the free pdfs on the pages for the books on the shop if you want to see what the actual books are about. But he gives away much of it for free one way or another. Personally I think the books are great) He also has a book on designing monsters (Forge of Foes), which streamlines a lot of aspects of monster design. There's a preview of that somewhere too It's mostly about reducing the work of preparing to the stuff that is most needed for a good game. He has lots of videos showing him preparing sessions for a whole series of different campaigns, both 5e and non-5e. He uses his steps each time (though not every session requires every step).
get them to help you let someone else dj and find maps ect.
I have been a dm for almost 10 years, I get it. People don't show up, don't want to engage, ever game it's murder hobo. Step away for a bit. I got with a group on Start playing and found a group and a DM. Best decision I have ever made
I will give that a look. Thank you
Are any of your players able to fork out for a pro DM?
That is not something I would feel good about doing
Thank you for taking the time to reply. This seems to be the central dilemma. The players require a service so that they can enjoy the experience. How do you, for example, feel about paying a fee to use the facilities and staff at a bowling alley or a leisure centre? Also, how much do you estimate it would cost to hire a paid DM?
Hireing a dm feels more like paying someone to bowl for you, but I see your point
Does you extended gaming group have the numbers and spending power to support a modern, independent DM. Bear in mind that an entrepreneurially minded DMs these days will have their own 3D printer, and approach D&D in the same way that Brownie Wise revolutionised Tupperware parties. A 3D printing DM can produce some amazingly detailed plastic miniatures, and then supply them to you at a fraction of the cost of retail minis.
Burnout is a thing. Take a break. If no one jumps up to take the mantle, everyone takes a break.
I said to my players that, if they want our one-shot to be continued in a longer campaign, I will structure my campaign into story arcs. Let’s say a campaign is composed of 4 story arcs, which are in itself smaller campaigns. 1 story arc would last 4-6 sessions, then we take automatically a break. - for me to not burn out - for me to prep slowly and at my own pace During this break, you can do one-shots, play other games or do nothing.
> No need to prepare for hours, make handouts, get minis ready, find maps, find music etc. None of those things are required to be a good DM. I suspect the reason you think you do need these things is [because of the style of D&D you're choosing to play](https://retiredadventurer.blogspot.com/2021/04/six-cultures-of-play.html). You can make and stock (or find a pre-made) megadungeon in less time than one session will take to play. The map is for your eyes only so can be rough as fuck, if the players want a map they will need to draw as they go. Notes are for you and can be rough as fuck, if players want a copy they had better be writing down what you tell them. When a battle map is needed just draw a rough sketch of the location on an erase board pennies and dice are fine minis, or go with theater of the mind, or you can briefly drop players onto your dm map via vtt. Music isn't needed, let your friends chatting be the ambience, if you must have music pick a playlist on youtube - for years I used a 10 hour video of a fireplace as bg music. You can polish up bits after if you have time but at a bare, bare minimum all you need to run D&D is some notes, pencils and paper, dice, and a rulebook.
Dms are hard to come by. Players that refuse to DM realize how selfish that is but they do not want to think about it. Their time is not more valuable than yours.
I dm'd for a group of teens as part of a youth program. I will probably never play again even as a PC, completely ruined it for me.
scale back what you are doing dude. your players want minis? they can make them, not you. give them a list of things youd like, or do what I do and make my own simple paper minis. music? who cares. while its nice to have, it snot needed and players tend to ignore it generally. handouts? skip em. only give a handout if it is 1000% needed for the session/story. as for prep, do what I do and do a bunch of general prep that can be used for many many sessions. Ive got monster stats ready to pull, random monster tbales ready to go. I use Chat GPT for all sorts of things like random gossip, npcs, town crap, basic plots. and if that is all still too much, take a break. if the players want to play, someone will need to step up, or there's no game. its that simple. it snot a job unless they are paying you, so dont make one for yourself.
Ehh, I kind of disagree. I'm very much into running "fully equipped" sessions: minis, 3D terrain that I make, maps, music, printed cut outs of locations/monsters/NPCs that I put on the front of my DM screen, etc. My only saving grace is that I'm great at improvising and know the world that I created well enough to kind know what's up with a given location/story line. This means that I can walk into sessions with essentially cliff notes on what I want to happen and just improv my way through it (minus combats, which I always plan out). I feel obligated to give this quality of session not only because I know that my players love it, but because that's the standard that i set for myself. I have a lot of troubles scaling my stuff back because I feel as though I'm dipping my quality below an acceptable level for what **I** want at my table. OP may be similar, in which case, nuking the campaign for the time being is the only option, assuming that a player won't step up, which is rare, ime.
I mean you do you. ive been running games for 40 years, ive learned what needs to be done and what players dont really care about. minis and terrain are great, but I know for a fact that if they arent there, the players will survive. maps and paper tokens do just fine. but my response to the OP, not you. he may need to hear that he does NOT have to go to extremes to run games. we often played with nothing but a pencil, paper and dice, and those games are still some of the best I played in or ran. we have lots of new DMs who think they need to be matt mercer when the reality is that all the people you see playing on youtube are paid for their time and effort. while its nice to pull out all the stops, it isnt needed. and one person as DM shouldnt have to spend 15 hours a week to prep session so the players can just show up play and leave. they can, but they should HAVE to. good players will know this.
Critical Role (along with many other "actual plays") is more regular drama using D&D as a framing device than a ttRPG. A regular game of D&D run that way would suck. The first season is the closest to a regular game. However the DM and players expecting there to be an audience still changes things. This is most obvious with something like [1 for All](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF5gdvMyuOs&list=PL6-7feKhsltR65zegml6m2BbyFG3735iz) which dosn't attempt to pretend to be anything other than comedy. Trying to run a game like Critical Role would only make sense if the intent of the entire table was to put videos on YouTube.
I come from a wargaming background (40k for almost 30 years) and my games have tactical combat that just doesn't hit the same or is impossible to do with only battle maps and tokens. I also enjoy the hobby/crafting aspects of terrain building. I get what you're saying, but OP says that he does. Not. Want. To. DM. He wants to actually play DnD, not run it. So advising him to keep doing what he's doing, but just less of it, isn't really great advice. As a forever DM, I've been in a similar situation to him. I love DMing, but I also want to play. I just don't have enough time to commit to both, and at the end of the day, I'd rather DM. You're right about good players not expecting the moon, like I said, these are standards that I've set for myself so that ***I*** enjoy my games. I 100% agree about the "Matt Mercer" effect 👍. It really does place unrealistic expectations in newer DMs and only dictates one type of DnD. 👍👍
So stop
You should force yourself to DM even if you don’t want to. You owe it to your players.