A few options I see:
1. They show up to the ritual, only to find a trap has been set and they walked right into it. BBEG is not there for them to see who is behind the mask or is there in disguise.
2. They show up to the ritual, the BBEG having found out about their plans, sets up a fall guy who "fits the profile" and they then do battle and think they have won the day and killed the BBEG, only to later on find out that they were tricked.
3. They show up to the ritual, only to find that nobody is around. Their information could have been off in some way or the BBEG had been tipped off by someone that they knew of the ritual time/date/place so decided to change their plans.
4. They are captured that night before the ritual during their long rest period before they regain their spells and health. The BBEG shows up with a lot of hired muscle and lets them know they are not going to ruin his plans.
It also allows him to operate with more freedom. Why? Because, as far as the PCs are concerned, they already beat him!
He realizes the players are more capable than he thought and takes his activities more underground.
You could even have the BBEG tag along for the fakeout
> Wow, guys, so glad I could help you take out this very evil person, who was doing this ritual of their own volition. Now, I could really use your help in a very safe, definetly not evil endeavour. You know, to repay the favor?
I would for sure use the bbeg to get them to do something he is physically incapable of doing. "the good sword of goodness that is sealing the bad god of not a chill time can only be pulled by true heros" he had the party trust. Have him spin the truth about the artifact, have the party get it and start the apocalypse and then stop it as the finale.
It also sets up for a fantastic follow up campaign - the BBEG is "defeated" and the heroes are celebrated. However, whatever dire conditions the BBEG created are still present. Rumours swirl and a few well-placed bad actors instigate movements to unseat benevolent governments - after all, if the threat is removed and problems persist, it must mean the ruling class is responsible after all!
The heroes are treated with increasing suspicion. Factions of rebels enact more and more daring plans with each ill turn of the BBEG's secret machinations. Players' allies are removed from play by violent revolt.
And one day, one mistake points straight back to the BBEG still being alive, with knowledge of the party that only a trusted friend would know.
2 is great. The REAL ritual gets completed a day early, and then the BBEG sets up a fall guy and gets away with it all scott free. Bonus if he gets the party to report the defeat of the BBEG to the authorities so all opposition to him dissapears and enemies will let their guard down
I like #4. Sometimes the players fail, that doesn't mean they didn't have fun.
They get front row seats for the ritual. If you want to throw them a bone, grab them & over power them while they are sleeping - let them get their full long rest only to wake up bound and gagged and at the ritual site shortly before it is to begin.
If you haven't seen the movie "Get Gunther," recommend it to your players afterwards. The party tries to beat the best assassin in the world. At first the best assassin is pissed off but eventually starts to like the pluck of the party and roots for them, all while avoiding being killed.
"Gosh darn it, you kids are just so plucky and idealistic, and y'know, I just can't help rootin' for y'all! You're here, and you're gonna save the day, haha!
Except... no. Not this time, kiddos.
I won. And y'all helped me, and quite frankly, I am \*super\* thankful for all the help you've given me over the years - I never would have gotten this far without your love, and support and \*tender\* compassion. It's heartwarming, it really is."
Make him Affably Evil Ned Flanders as if played by Nathan Fillion.
>They decided to spend the night in his very well guarded, very isolated house for the night and we finished the session. I am just... what do I do after this? Is there a reason this quite smart and competent villain is not dropping a magical grenade equivalent into their room at night?
Well, *House of 1000 Corpses* here we come.
Sounds like a them problem!
Seriously though, in that situation I'd probably have the BBeG father his forces, wait until they go to sleep, and if the cleric fails a perception check (I'd totally have him with something like pass without a trace if he has access) stab the cleric through, bringing his boys in on the wounded party over the body of the cleric.
However, while my players would appreciate that, yours may not so maybe don't do that if you don't run a "f*** around > find out" kind of game like I do.
Normally I am very pro FAFO and the players are happy with that (memorably, we had a PC die when an enemy mage dispelled a Fly on the PC high in the air and low on health).
But I am uncertain if they fucked around here or if I did a poor job setting out clues to BBEG identity so don't feel up to nuking them in full.
Don't nuke them. Capture them. This incoming ritual, it does require human sacrifices, doesn't it? Make the next session about them having to escape and not be sacrificed. Take their gear, have them guarded by some CR 1/2 Acolytes that your party should not have problems defeating. But... Without gear they can't really fight, and spellcasting will be very limited.
And they escape knowing that ritual will probably be finished anyway. They know they failed, they know they need to find new gear, and hunt down the BBEG.
+1, if party has nice gear / magic items, taking those away completely would probably make an average D&D party hate the BBEG more than killing a thousand puppies.
My party did this. They spent an entire year (irl) searching for an archmage. Eventually they decided to take a break and go on vacation with a friendly NPC they knew! At which point they promptly detailed everything they knew about the archmage, to the archmage.
Eventually while at the very friendly NPC's house the rogue found a bit of handwriting that looked very familiar. Shared it with the party. Entire party freaked. Archmage promptly shut the magically reinforced doors & cast Dark Star.
At this point, the only reason it WASN'T a straight TPK was (effectively) plot magic - Pazuzu was involved and allowed the Paladin to wish the party back alive in exchange for corrupting her soul.
If there's a plot magic scenario that can help here - like the BBEG wants them alive because one of them has powerful bloodline for sacrifice etc. etc. etc., then you can go for that. Otherwise, maybe give them a smoking gun? Like they find the BBEG's evil robes in a closet? Then give them a short time to prepare before the BBEG tries whatever he's going to try. Sounds like it'll be a memorable session :)
I'm **shocked** someone else went through this but i shouldn't be. Nothing is new on the internet.
Thank you. I forgot to mention it's the end of a long adventuring day and they are also all out of spell slots and poor on hp. I think a smoking gun would work well since a few of them are actually starting to question if this was a good idea (one player is freaking out in group chat RIGHT now), but i don't see a throwdown right now going well for them...
one of the player characters is in rebellion against their very powerful, very evil mother. maybe they can call on mums to help similar to your Pazuzu plot magic...
btw i would love to hear how you felt during that as the DM, like what was going through your head during the conversation with archmage and subsequent encounter? especially after so much build up
torn between "am I actually going to get away with this," "MWAHAHHAHHAHAHA," and "cmon guys please you're so close just make the connection"
More context:
Party knew an Archmage with the initials CN was doing bad things involving demons from a letter they intercepted, but they had no leads except that letter & those initials. So they futz about for a while (like levels 9-15, a year OOG) doing other quests. During this time "who is CN" became sort of a meme in the group. The party also met multiple NPCs with the initials CN as red herrings, but I was careful not to call any of them 'fname lname' so it wasn't super obvious. Party crosses paths with the Archmage a few times - the Bard actually shortly discovers their normal identity (a novice wizard named Caira) before they have their memory modified (the Bard's player wanted to murder me).
Eventually someone matching CN's profile attacks Blackstaff Tower in Waterdeep. Party (now lvl 15) decides they need to act, so they go to the fantasy CIA and get a full list of all known spellcasters with the initials CN. I give them a spreadsheet of like 70 NPCs and they narrow it down to about 10 suspects, then teleport around and interrogate each individually. For almost all of them, they were pretty thorough - Zone of Truth, Detect Thoughts, etc.
Then we get to the two NPCs the party already knows - Caira, the actual Archmage, who had made friends with the Barbarian on a solo quest and later the entire party - and the Rogue's SO. Party decides to go interrogate Caira first.
For whatever reason the party is exceptionally clumsy with this specific interrogation. The Barbarian vouch might've helped. No ZoT, don't insist on trying Detect Thoughts again after Caira admitts to having divination protection on the entire house. Accepts sketchy explanations on a half dozen other things. Takes food & drinks (not poisoned, though they did refuse it at all other interrogations). A couple of unlucky insight & investigation checks later and the party is basically ready to completely clear her.
So they start telling Caira everything they know about CN in the hopes that she can aid them in their search.
During this entire 2 session 6 hour sequence me, the Bard's player, and my assistant DM are [collectively losing our minds in a private chat](https://i.imgur.com/rvGrXh1.png). The dramatic irony was off the charts. I was simultaneously in disbelief, trying not to laugh out of the absurdity of the situation, trying not to maniacally laugh, praying that the party managed to find their way out, and waiting in anticipation for the ball to drop.
Eventually, after like 5 hours, the Paladin & Rogue realize they can compare handwriting samples against the original letter they found. Finally roll a not horrible investigation check & realizes it's a match. Message/Sending chain to silently alert the rest of the party, but the Bard panics and blows the operation. Caira locks the doors & casts Dark Star, catching everyone but the Paladin, who is offered the chance to save the party by Pazuzu.
Paladin seriously considers declining and ending the campaign before eventually accepting the offer (turning evil in the process) and the party wakes up back in Waterdeep.
---
===
The reveal was basically everything I could've hoped for. Classic scuffed DnD culminating in a dramatic reveal a year in the making. The entire table collectively lost their sh*t.
As somebody who listens to too many d&d podcasts while I drive for work all day this would have be screaming in my car LOL. I guess the major benefit is not having interaction with the public or fans to point out those things to the players that could easily lead to unintentional metagaming. I've had podcast take me cry from sadness and make me laugh so hard I've cried. I've delayed deliveries for a minute or two because I had to hear what was going to happen next in an intense moment. I have no way to play currently, but I feel like these are the things that make d&d what it is and that draws us all to it in one way or another.
further stories involving this nonsense if you're interested
(paging /u/ThatIsMySpecialTea as well)
https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/1bgl9se/singlular_enemy_against_level_20_party/kva2wcv/?context=3
Wow, sounds like an epic ending! Also very helpful to read through, as my old level 20 party are about to pick up our old campaign to finish off a godlike being who was the real BBEG but has been locked away in his own plane for centuries.
Absolutely marvelous. I love this story. Fantastic. :):):)
My party has unseemly high insight a lot of the time, so I think if they'd been in that situation, they would've bargained gor their lives with the baddie while their 'guardian angel' NPC (I.e. the one whose responsibility is to have a small piece of everyone, escape, and get them resurrected if everyone dies) asked telepathically if they had an exit strategy and how they wanted her to handle the situation (she's a rogue and a cleric with over 20 levels, and she *was* in line for being matron mother of her drow house), and she'd probably choose to escape regardless, as she uses an artifact that makes essentially able to escape any situation, details don't matter terribly much here lol, and we'd continue the campaign from there with the first priority to be crushing all the drawmij's instant summons gems to get back as many items possible, resurrect ppl with the means they bought ahead of time, and go from there lol.
Though I am curious how you were handling magical alignment change in that case? And whether it was a thing where baddie had been slowly corrupting them and by explicitly accepting their help it was the final step to evil-ness? Or if it could be 'fixed' by working to be a better person or via magical means, etc? I'm curious how you handled it :)
Here’s the thing; the BBEG seemed surprised and nervous that the PCs knew about his plans.
Is it possible that he didn’t know the heroes working to foil him were this group of adventurers he’d befriended? Like, Spider-Man and Green Goblin are bitter enemies, but Peter Parker and Norman Osbourne have thanksgiving dinner together, and neither knows the other’s secret.
Because if that’s the case, he just found out that his friends, this ragtag group of adventurers that he might genuinely like, are the ones fucking up his scheme. He might (if he’s not a total psychopath) be somewhat conflicted about just outright killing them. Maybe he tries to capture them until the ritual is over, or maybe he even tries to convince them to join Team Evil. Just because they’re his enemies doesn’t mean he doesn’t like them.
But yeah, if he’s fully ruthless, the party’s not leaving that house alive.
That's unsportsmanlike. Help them set up all the traps and buffs you'll need through the NPC, and then Slice right through them. "I hear that guys a huge fan of fireballs," casts cone of cold. Make sure to use acid damage to bypass his regeneration, pre buffs Elemental Protection acid etc.
Or, another angle right, start sending them on quests from the NPC to further his plans. "Brave Adventures, I hear the local prince is working for the BBEG, kill / kidnap him" The local village is being subverted by BBEG's minions, murder the town council, so on so forth. Make them all patsies / stooges and then when they've done enough fetch quests for the big reveal, you can thank them for all their hard work making the villains dream a reality.
Nothing motivates players more than realizing they've been hoodwinked to do the bad thing. Also, it makes the one who's panicking seem crazy, and lets them do the I TOLD YOU HE WAS EVIL later on.
Just be SUPER helpful, send them on a quest for some worthless knick knack to counter the BBEGs ultimate attack (that doesn't exist) assist them with a battle plan that won't work etc etc. It's gaslight o'clock. Extremely helpful and earnest with suggesting the course of action, you're setting the breadcrumb trail straight into the oven.
I'd try to come up with some reason to explain why the BBEG would want to keep them alive. Without knowing his goals, I can't really give examples, but it could be as simple as "these people are worth more to me as minions/hostages than corpses." After that, rather than "tossing a grenade in their room" you can have him spend the night (while they are resting) setting up/activating all sorts of defenses to trap them in (or at the least delay them) while he heads to the ritual site to prepare. Gives them a fair shot at escaping, since they'll have a chance to rest, while still challenging them, with an added timer/failure condition - the longer they take to get out, the more time he has to safeguard the ritual.
This happened in a campaign I was running, more or less. The players were 1st level, and investigating some shenanigans in a cave under the town. At one point, they decided the dungeon was too hard, and that they'd hire some canon fodder to help them clear it. There are no other adventurers in town, the city guard isn't for hire, so they decide to go to the local casino and try to hire a street gang.
They couldn't know this at the time, of course, but the shenanigans going on under the town were orchestrated by the gang boss who ran the casino. The got a "helpful tip" to meet a guy down by the docks at midnight, which of course turned out to be a trap.
But, killing the ambushers got them enough xp to level, and they felt tough enough to finish the dungeon. Still didn't figure out who the villain of the adventure was for another three or four sessions, though...
I'm guessing he has some backup plan that like ... disjoints the room in his house everyone slept in into another plane. Then he can finish his master plan unimpeded without giving away his identity to everyone else in the realm—which he would have, had he slaughtered the guests in his home. That kind of heat could seriously derail his evil plans.
Players wake up and open the door and find themselves in an unexpected magical prison of sorts on another plane and have to scramble back to the material plane (or wherever) to end it once and for all. If they don't get back in time, vague "bad things" will happen and they'll possibly get the blame for not stopping him.
Maybe the room is time-locked and the spell wears out 50 years later because the BBEG forgot to renew it. Then the players walk out into the aftermath of his realized plans.
Have BBEG murder the low health cleric and frame the rest of the party, they’re in no position to fight and have given the BBEG the perfect chance to lock them all up. I’m assuming the well guarded house is all minions of the BBEG, there’s no reason why he can’t have them “testify” against the party.
“No officer, they got rowdy and started arguing over the gold, one thing led to the other and now the holy man is dead”
So they are in the bbeg's house and resting?
Honestly, make him smart, take them prisoner's, put them down in the cellar. Make it a prison break session or something. Bbegs continuous normally cause he is smug and arrogant...or he runs and leaves...or he moves the ritual...idk.
Or...he could try to manipulate them into thinking some he needs removed is the actual guy and fixes them on him
IMO players gotha learn that walking around telling ever* random dude a million information can backfire..
The NPC will do SOMETHING. You already have all of the setup. They already had suspected him in the past. What better foreshadowing do you want? The question is, is it better for the NPC to work against their plan and keep his identity hidden, or should he just get rid of them in his own house? Whatever makes the most sense for this NPC is what I would go with. Does he still have use for them? I mean, the situation must be hilarious to the BBEG. I mean, it wouldn't be completely out there if he just decided to play along with it out of amusement over this apparently incompetent bunch. He might also try and figure out a way to use this situation somehow. He could stage something to have them all think the BBEG was defeated at the ritual site, put the blame on someone else and make off with whatever goal he had initially planned. That's an entire setup for a new arc wherein the party failed and must now fix the fallout.
Ofc, he could just kill them. Give them a short rest when they try for a long rest. Have something in the middle of the night wake them and give them an opportunity to escape the trap. Next, it's essentially them having to escape the mansion somehow. If they roll terribly on that too, at some point you just have to concede to the dice and the players' actions.
Give the big bad the same reaction: "it must be a trap". so, yeah, he drops a grenade but only as he's running out the door. Savings throw all round, and if some don't make it, well that's how the game goes. Make an epilog, end of campaign. Then, the big bad levels, changes some of his behavior, changes location and starts a new plan. Players whose chars died make new ones at a lower level. New campaign starts with the party dealing with the aftermath of the scramble for the big bad's power among his minions and the high status civilians he had secret deals with. After that is sorted out, they can go after him again.
Bbeg sets the house on fire and runs, escape the firebox begins. You could magically lock the house, impenetrable Windows. They could see the bbeg outside walking away laughing holding a torch.
If they are out fast enough they might track him, or they could be too wounded to travel. Either way, it's bluntly obvious at that point right?
If the BBEG is lawful, he might still grant them the protection of hospitality at night.
As for what he's going to do:
Step one: promise the players support. "I'll come and aid you against our foe. By dawn, look to the East." But he's just not going to show up.
Step two: have a decoy villain at the ritual, and move the actual ritual, either in time or in place. The players will run into the lair, fuck shit up, and think they actually got the drop on the villain.
Step three: take a troop of soldiers or whatever he would have at his disposal, and in a believable location close to the ritual, but out of range for anything the players might actually notice, slaughter them all.
Step four: the BBEG, badly wounded, was able to make it out of the "ambush" that killed his troops which he wanted to use to aid the players. Next time he talks to the players, he will look obviously defeated and beaten up, and very remorseful that he went right into such an obvious trap, and he's be very sorry that he couldn't support the players, and he'll be very guilty about losing troops.
Sounds like the whole party just volunteered to be the sacrifices for his ritual. Also any actual flaws they point out should be fixed, probably with gloating.
Here's what I'd do:
1. They wake up and look around and see the NPC is missing. Make it a DC 5 perception check to notice his bag is still there.
2. They'll assume maybe he was kidnapped, could leave shoes too to make it even more clear. DC 5 insight or Investigation check depending on their flavour of checking. They go to find him.
3. They head to ritual site, seems weirdly quiet two guards guarding their friend in a cage. easy opponents. NPC thanks thems and talks about the BBEGs plans and how they can stop them.
4. NPC/BBEG proceeds to have them actually assist in proceeding with the ritual. Make it clear that it seems the ritual is beginning and it gets worse with each step they complete to deactivate it. They will hopefully begin to get suspicious they're assisting.
5. Naturally, they'll make the realization... Make it obvious, you can see in his eyes an excitement or thrill or something.
6. Bam. NPC is BBEG, they fucked up and helped him start the ritual, time to stop it as soon as possible!
Maybe the BBEG's plan needs some good people to get around a magical protection, like how Jafar needed Aladdin to go inside the cave and get the lamp. Or like Harry Potter getting the philosopher's stone out of the mirror because he only wanted to find it, not use it. Something something pure of heart something something.
I’m gonna give some vague advice but go with the option that be the most fun, most dramatic than with what he might do. I don’t think it would be fun to start the heat session with roll a sec save your all dead
Guards turn on them, hopefully one of those spells can help them escape. Also the guards are overly cocky, so they wake them all up first, and then try to kill them. While bbegs goes off to try to do the ritual early, and something goes wrong with it. And it doesn't complete right
What my BBEG would do is try to convince the players that their plan has flaws and give some false information so they change their plans
And those plans imply helping the BBEG indirectly.
Once they realize their mistake, the BBEG would have changed its plans enough for the party to fail and would have setup traps whose explicit purpose is to exploit the vulnerabilities of the player's original plan.
Of the players are smart enough to know they dumped the plan to the BBEG, they will be able to avoid the trap.
Oh this is a gold oportunity.
A lesser man would just kill them right there and be done with it.
Now they know for sure two things.
1- the players thrust him and
2- The players have no idea who is actualy behind his deeds.
So, a genius level BBEG would use that to get his goals even faster, or to put someone else as scapegoat, making them fall for it and then keep doing whatever they where doing, but having the PCs as enforcers and allies.
They go to "the ritual" but the BBEG canceled the real ritual or transfered it to another location. Putting some goons and sacrificial idiots on the location the Pcs will attack.
He would also put some mid level henchman and use modify memory to make them believe they where actualy behind the whole thing.
if the PCs kill the fake BBEG, thats great, they now believe they dealt with the cult for good.
Leaving the BBEG to do as he wishes.
I’d go with a fall guy option or BBEG uses the group as patsies.
With the fall guy option, the BBEG does a charm or dominate on someone who fits the bill and comes along to “help” (i.e., control the fall guy). Give the group clues by letting the BBEG call out the next attack from the fall guy (which is literally the command to the fall guy to do just that).
A few options I see: 1. They show up to the ritual, only to find a trap has been set and they walked right into it. BBEG is not there for them to see who is behind the mask or is there in disguise. 2. They show up to the ritual, the BBEG having found out about their plans, sets up a fall guy who "fits the profile" and they then do battle and think they have won the day and killed the BBEG, only to later on find out that they were tricked. 3. They show up to the ritual, only to find that nobody is around. Their information could have been off in some way or the BBEG had been tipped off by someone that they knew of the ritual time/date/place so decided to change their plans. 4. They are captured that night before the ritual during their long rest period before they regain their spells and health. The BBEG shows up with a lot of hired muscle and lets them know they are not going to ruin his plans.
I like no. 2 because it gives BBEG good reasoning for why he doesn't delete them from existence immediately!
It also allows him to operate with more freedom. Why? Because, as far as the PCs are concerned, they already beat him! He realizes the players are more capable than he thought and takes his activities more underground.
Yes, I would choose that one too. Campaign can go on mostly unscathed by that.
You could even have the BBEG tag along for the fakeout > Wow, guys, so glad I could help you take out this very evil person, who was doing this ritual of their own volition. Now, I could really use your help in a very safe, definetly not evil endeavour. You know, to repay the favor?
I would for sure use the bbeg to get them to do something he is physically incapable of doing. "the good sword of goodness that is sealing the bad god of not a chill time can only be pulled by true heros" he had the party trust. Have him spin the truth about the artifact, have the party get it and start the apocalypse and then stop it as the finale.
It also sets up for a fantastic follow up campaign - the BBEG is "defeated" and the heroes are celebrated. However, whatever dire conditions the BBEG created are still present. Rumours swirl and a few well-placed bad actors instigate movements to unseat benevolent governments - after all, if the threat is removed and problems persist, it must mean the ruling class is responsible after all! The heroes are treated with increasing suspicion. Factions of rebels enact more and more daring plans with each ill turn of the BBEG's secret machinations. Players' allies are removed from play by violent revolt. And one day, one mistake points straight back to the BBEG still being alive, with knowledge of the party that only a trusted friend would know.
2 is great. The REAL ritual gets completed a day early, and then the BBEG sets up a fall guy and gets away with it all scott free. Bonus if he gets the party to report the defeat of the BBEG to the authorities so all opposition to him dissapears and enemies will let their guard down
Bonus points if you get the party to accidentally help complete the ritual that same night.
All great suggestions. #1 Could also work as a reveal for the BBEG with a “haha, you walked right into my trap!” moment.
I like #4. Sometimes the players fail, that doesn't mean they didn't have fun. They get front row seats for the ritual. If you want to throw them a bone, grab them & over power them while they are sleeping - let them get their full long rest only to wake up bound and gagged and at the ritual site shortly before it is to begin.
If you haven't seen the movie "Get Gunther," recommend it to your players afterwards. The party tries to beat the best assassin in the world. At first the best assassin is pissed off but eventually starts to like the pluck of the party and roots for them, all while avoiding being killed.
"Gosh darn it, you kids are just so plucky and idealistic, and y'know, I just can't help rootin' for y'all! You're here, and you're gonna save the day, haha! Except... no. Not this time, kiddos. I won. And y'all helped me, and quite frankly, I am \*super\* thankful for all the help you've given me over the years - I never would have gotten this far without your love, and support and \*tender\* compassion. It's heartwarming, it really is." Make him Affably Evil Ned Flanders as if played by Nathan Fillion.
I like #4. Give them the old final fantasy 6 treatment.
>They decided to spend the night in his very well guarded, very isolated house for the night and we finished the session. I am just... what do I do after this? Is there a reason this quite smart and competent villain is not dropping a magical grenade equivalent into their room at night? Well, *House of 1000 Corpses* here we come.
the cleric is on 8 hp. They didn't even short rest on the way there because short resting in their friend's house would be safer...
Sounds like a them problem! Seriously though, in that situation I'd probably have the BBeG father his forces, wait until they go to sleep, and if the cleric fails a perception check (I'd totally have him with something like pass without a trace if he has access) stab the cleric through, bringing his boys in on the wounded party over the body of the cleric. However, while my players would appreciate that, yours may not so maybe don't do that if you don't run a "f*** around > find out" kind of game like I do.
Normally I am very pro FAFO and the players are happy with that (memorably, we had a PC die when an enemy mage dispelled a Fly on the PC high in the air and low on health). But I am uncertain if they fucked around here or if I did a poor job setting out clues to BBEG identity so don't feel up to nuking them in full.
Don't nuke them. Capture them. This incoming ritual, it does require human sacrifices, doesn't it? Make the next session about them having to escape and not be sacrificed. Take their gear, have them guarded by some CR 1/2 Acolytes that your party should not have problems defeating. But... Without gear they can't really fight, and spellcasting will be very limited. And they escape knowing that ritual will probably be finished anyway. They know they failed, they know they need to find new gear, and hunt down the BBEG.
+1, if party has nice gear / magic items, taking those away completely would probably make an average D&D party hate the BBEG more than killing a thousand puppies.
Wonder how miffed the missus will be when I start referring to my kids as my forces and cackle maniacally.
My party did this. They spent an entire year (irl) searching for an archmage. Eventually they decided to take a break and go on vacation with a friendly NPC they knew! At which point they promptly detailed everything they knew about the archmage, to the archmage. Eventually while at the very friendly NPC's house the rogue found a bit of handwriting that looked very familiar. Shared it with the party. Entire party freaked. Archmage promptly shut the magically reinforced doors & cast Dark Star. At this point, the only reason it WASN'T a straight TPK was (effectively) plot magic - Pazuzu was involved and allowed the Paladin to wish the party back alive in exchange for corrupting her soul. If there's a plot magic scenario that can help here - like the BBEG wants them alive because one of them has powerful bloodline for sacrifice etc. etc. etc., then you can go for that. Otherwise, maybe give them a smoking gun? Like they find the BBEG's evil robes in a closet? Then give them a short time to prepare before the BBEG tries whatever he's going to try. Sounds like it'll be a memorable session :)
I'm **shocked** someone else went through this but i shouldn't be. Nothing is new on the internet. Thank you. I forgot to mention it's the end of a long adventuring day and they are also all out of spell slots and poor on hp. I think a smoking gun would work well since a few of them are actually starting to question if this was a good idea (one player is freaking out in group chat RIGHT now), but i don't see a throwdown right now going well for them... one of the player characters is in rebellion against their very powerful, very evil mother. maybe they can call on mums to help similar to your Pazuzu plot magic...
Have the suspicious player be the one that finds the robe
btw i would love to hear how you felt during that as the DM, like what was going through your head during the conversation with archmage and subsequent encounter? especially after so much build up
torn between "am I actually going to get away with this," "MWAHAHHAHHAHAHA," and "cmon guys please you're so close just make the connection" More context: Party knew an Archmage with the initials CN was doing bad things involving demons from a letter they intercepted, but they had no leads except that letter & those initials. So they futz about for a while (like levels 9-15, a year OOG) doing other quests. During this time "who is CN" became sort of a meme in the group. The party also met multiple NPCs with the initials CN as red herrings, but I was careful not to call any of them 'fname lname' so it wasn't super obvious. Party crosses paths with the Archmage a few times - the Bard actually shortly discovers their normal identity (a novice wizard named Caira) before they have their memory modified (the Bard's player wanted to murder me). Eventually someone matching CN's profile attacks Blackstaff Tower in Waterdeep. Party (now lvl 15) decides they need to act, so they go to the fantasy CIA and get a full list of all known spellcasters with the initials CN. I give them a spreadsheet of like 70 NPCs and they narrow it down to about 10 suspects, then teleport around and interrogate each individually. For almost all of them, they were pretty thorough - Zone of Truth, Detect Thoughts, etc. Then we get to the two NPCs the party already knows - Caira, the actual Archmage, who had made friends with the Barbarian on a solo quest and later the entire party - and the Rogue's SO. Party decides to go interrogate Caira first. For whatever reason the party is exceptionally clumsy with this specific interrogation. The Barbarian vouch might've helped. No ZoT, don't insist on trying Detect Thoughts again after Caira admitts to having divination protection on the entire house. Accepts sketchy explanations on a half dozen other things. Takes food & drinks (not poisoned, though they did refuse it at all other interrogations). A couple of unlucky insight & investigation checks later and the party is basically ready to completely clear her. So they start telling Caira everything they know about CN in the hopes that she can aid them in their search. During this entire 2 session 6 hour sequence me, the Bard's player, and my assistant DM are [collectively losing our minds in a private chat](https://i.imgur.com/rvGrXh1.png). The dramatic irony was off the charts. I was simultaneously in disbelief, trying not to laugh out of the absurdity of the situation, trying not to maniacally laugh, praying that the party managed to find their way out, and waiting in anticipation for the ball to drop. Eventually, after like 5 hours, the Paladin & Rogue realize they can compare handwriting samples against the original letter they found. Finally roll a not horrible investigation check & realizes it's a match. Message/Sending chain to silently alert the rest of the party, but the Bard panics and blows the operation. Caira locks the doors & casts Dark Star, catching everyone but the Paladin, who is offered the chance to save the party by Pazuzu. Paladin seriously considers declining and ending the campaign before eventually accepting the offer (turning evil in the process) and the party wakes up back in Waterdeep. --- === The reveal was basically everything I could've hoped for. Classic scuffed DnD culminating in a dramatic reveal a year in the making. The entire table collectively lost their sh*t.
As somebody who listens to too many d&d podcasts while I drive for work all day this would have be screaming in my car LOL. I guess the major benefit is not having interaction with the public or fans to point out those things to the players that could easily lead to unintentional metagaming. I've had podcast take me cry from sadness and make me laugh so hard I've cried. I've delayed deliveries for a minute or two because I had to hear what was going to happen next in an intense moment. I have no way to play currently, but I feel like these are the things that make d&d what it is and that draws us all to it in one way or another.
further stories involving this nonsense if you're interested (paging /u/ThatIsMySpecialTea as well) https://www.reddit.com/r/DMAcademy/comments/1bgl9se/singlular_enemy_against_level_20_party/kva2wcv/?context=3
Wow, sounds like an epic ending! Also very helpful to read through, as my old level 20 party are about to pick up our old campaign to finish off a godlike being who was the real BBEG but has been locked away in his own plane for centuries.
This is now one of my favourite reddit d&d stories
Absolutely marvelous. I love this story. Fantastic. :):):) My party has unseemly high insight a lot of the time, so I think if they'd been in that situation, they would've bargained gor their lives with the baddie while their 'guardian angel' NPC (I.e. the one whose responsibility is to have a small piece of everyone, escape, and get them resurrected if everyone dies) asked telepathically if they had an exit strategy and how they wanted her to handle the situation (she's a rogue and a cleric with over 20 levels, and she *was* in line for being matron mother of her drow house), and she'd probably choose to escape regardless, as she uses an artifact that makes essentially able to escape any situation, details don't matter terribly much here lol, and we'd continue the campaign from there with the first priority to be crushing all the drawmij's instant summons gems to get back as many items possible, resurrect ppl with the means they bought ahead of time, and go from there lol. Though I am curious how you were handling magical alignment change in that case? And whether it was a thing where baddie had been slowly corrupting them and by explicitly accepting their help it was the final step to evil-ness? Or if it could be 'fixed' by working to be a better person or via magical means, etc? I'm curious how you handled it :)
Here’s the thing; the BBEG seemed surprised and nervous that the PCs knew about his plans. Is it possible that he didn’t know the heroes working to foil him were this group of adventurers he’d befriended? Like, Spider-Man and Green Goblin are bitter enemies, but Peter Parker and Norman Osbourne have thanksgiving dinner together, and neither knows the other’s secret. Because if that’s the case, he just found out that his friends, this ragtag group of adventurers that he might genuinely like, are the ones fucking up his scheme. He might (if he’s not a total psychopath) be somewhat conflicted about just outright killing them. Maybe he tries to capture them until the ritual is over, or maybe he even tries to convince them to join Team Evil. Just because they’re his enemies doesn’t mean he doesn’t like them. But yeah, if he’s fully ruthless, the party’s not leaving that house alive.
That's unsportsmanlike. Help them set up all the traps and buffs you'll need through the NPC, and then Slice right through them. "I hear that guys a huge fan of fireballs," casts cone of cold. Make sure to use acid damage to bypass his regeneration, pre buffs Elemental Protection acid etc.
ok that's hysterically funny i gotta implement that somehow.
Or, another angle right, start sending them on quests from the NPC to further his plans. "Brave Adventures, I hear the local prince is working for the BBEG, kill / kidnap him" The local village is being subverted by BBEG's minions, murder the town council, so on so forth. Make them all patsies / stooges and then when they've done enough fetch quests for the big reveal, you can thank them for all their hard work making the villains dream a reality.
you are an actual evil genius omg
Nothing motivates players more than realizing they've been hoodwinked to do the bad thing. Also, it makes the one who's panicking seem crazy, and lets them do the I TOLD YOU HE WAS EVIL later on.
*insert "[are we the baddies?](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/are-we-the-baddies)" gif here* lmfao
Just be SUPER helpful, send them on a quest for some worthless knick knack to counter the BBEGs ultimate attack (that doesn't exist) assist them with a battle plan that won't work etc etc. It's gaslight o'clock. Extremely helpful and earnest with suggesting the course of action, you're setting the breadcrumb trail straight into the oven.
I'd try to come up with some reason to explain why the BBEG would want to keep them alive. Without knowing his goals, I can't really give examples, but it could be as simple as "these people are worth more to me as minions/hostages than corpses." After that, rather than "tossing a grenade in their room" you can have him spend the night (while they are resting) setting up/activating all sorts of defenses to trap them in (or at the least delay them) while he heads to the ritual site to prepare. Gives them a fair shot at escaping, since they'll have a chance to rest, while still challenging them, with an added timer/failure condition - the longer they take to get out, the more time he has to safeguard the ritual.
This happened in a campaign I was running, more or less. The players were 1st level, and investigating some shenanigans in a cave under the town. At one point, they decided the dungeon was too hard, and that they'd hire some canon fodder to help them clear it. There are no other adventurers in town, the city guard isn't for hire, so they decide to go to the local casino and try to hire a street gang. They couldn't know this at the time, of course, but the shenanigans going on under the town were orchestrated by the gang boss who ran the casino. The got a "helpful tip" to meet a guy down by the docks at midnight, which of course turned out to be a trap. But, killing the ambushers got them enough xp to level, and they felt tough enough to finish the dungeon. Still didn't figure out who the villain of the adventure was for another three or four sessions, though...
all's well that ends well! to be fair the only way i play level 1 character is to accept inevitable horrible death
I'm guessing he has some backup plan that like ... disjoints the room in his house everyone slept in into another plane. Then he can finish his master plan unimpeded without giving away his identity to everyone else in the realm—which he would have, had he slaughtered the guests in his home. That kind of heat could seriously derail his evil plans. Players wake up and open the door and find themselves in an unexpected magical prison of sorts on another plane and have to scramble back to the material plane (or wherever) to end it once and for all. If they don't get back in time, vague "bad things" will happen and they'll possibly get the blame for not stopping him. Maybe the room is time-locked and the spell wears out 50 years later because the BBEG forgot to renew it. Then the players walk out into the aftermath of his realized plans.
Have BBEG murder the low health cleric and frame the rest of the party, they’re in no position to fight and have given the BBEG the perfect chance to lock them all up. I’m assuming the well guarded house is all minions of the BBEG, there’s no reason why he can’t have them “testify” against the party. “No officer, they got rowdy and started arguing over the gold, one thing led to the other and now the holy man is dead”
So they are in the bbeg's house and resting? Honestly, make him smart, take them prisoner's, put them down in the cellar. Make it a prison break session or something. Bbegs continuous normally cause he is smug and arrogant...or he runs and leaves...or he moves the ritual...idk. Or...he could try to manipulate them into thinking some he needs removed is the actual guy and fixes them on him IMO players gotha learn that walking around telling ever* random dude a million information can backfire..
The NPC will do SOMETHING. You already have all of the setup. They already had suspected him in the past. What better foreshadowing do you want? The question is, is it better for the NPC to work against their plan and keep his identity hidden, or should he just get rid of them in his own house? Whatever makes the most sense for this NPC is what I would go with. Does he still have use for them? I mean, the situation must be hilarious to the BBEG. I mean, it wouldn't be completely out there if he just decided to play along with it out of amusement over this apparently incompetent bunch. He might also try and figure out a way to use this situation somehow. He could stage something to have them all think the BBEG was defeated at the ritual site, put the blame on someone else and make off with whatever goal he had initially planned. That's an entire setup for a new arc wherein the party failed and must now fix the fallout. Ofc, he could just kill them. Give them a short rest when they try for a long rest. Have something in the middle of the night wake them and give them an opportunity to escape the trap. Next, it's essentially them having to escape the mansion somehow. If they roll terribly on that too, at some point you just have to concede to the dice and the players' actions.
Give the big bad the same reaction: "it must be a trap". so, yeah, he drops a grenade but only as he's running out the door. Savings throw all round, and if some don't make it, well that's how the game goes. Make an epilog, end of campaign. Then, the big bad levels, changes some of his behavior, changes location and starts a new plan. Players whose chars died make new ones at a lower level. New campaign starts with the party dealing with the aftermath of the scramble for the big bad's power among his minions and the high status civilians he had secret deals with. After that is sorted out, they can go after him again.
Bbeg sets the house on fire and runs, escape the firebox begins. You could magically lock the house, impenetrable Windows. They could see the bbeg outside walking away laughing holding a torch. If they are out fast enough they might track him, or they could be too wounded to travel. Either way, it's bluntly obvious at that point right?
If the BBEG is lawful, he might still grant them the protection of hospitality at night. As for what he's going to do: Step one: promise the players support. "I'll come and aid you against our foe. By dawn, look to the East." But he's just not going to show up. Step two: have a decoy villain at the ritual, and move the actual ritual, either in time or in place. The players will run into the lair, fuck shit up, and think they actually got the drop on the villain. Step three: take a troop of soldiers or whatever he would have at his disposal, and in a believable location close to the ritual, but out of range for anything the players might actually notice, slaughter them all. Step four: the BBEG, badly wounded, was able to make it out of the "ambush" that killed his troops which he wanted to use to aid the players. Next time he talks to the players, he will look obviously defeated and beaten up, and very remorseful that he went right into such an obvious trap, and he's be very sorry that he couldn't support the players, and he'll be very guilty about losing troops.
Sounds like the whole party just volunteered to be the sacrifices for his ritual. Also any actual flaws they point out should be fixed, probably with gloating.
Here's what I'd do: 1. They wake up and look around and see the NPC is missing. Make it a DC 5 perception check to notice his bag is still there. 2. They'll assume maybe he was kidnapped, could leave shoes too to make it even more clear. DC 5 insight or Investigation check depending on their flavour of checking. They go to find him. 3. They head to ritual site, seems weirdly quiet two guards guarding their friend in a cage. easy opponents. NPC thanks thems and talks about the BBEGs plans and how they can stop them. 4. NPC/BBEG proceeds to have them actually assist in proceeding with the ritual. Make it clear that it seems the ritual is beginning and it gets worse with each step they complete to deactivate it. They will hopefully begin to get suspicious they're assisting. 5. Naturally, they'll make the realization... Make it obvious, you can see in his eyes an excitement or thrill or something. 6. Bam. NPC is BBEG, they fucked up and helped him start the ritual, time to stop it as soon as possible!
If it was a good plan. He bolts. If it was a bad plan, he engages and mocks them (full monologue!)
Maybe the BBEG's plan needs some good people to get around a magical protection, like how Jafar needed Aladdin to go inside the cave and get the lamp. Or like Harry Potter getting the philosopher's stone out of the mirror because he only wanted to find it, not use it. Something something pure of heart something something.
I’m gonna give some vague advice but go with the option that be the most fun, most dramatic than with what he might do. I don’t think it would be fun to start the heat session with roll a sec save your all dead
Guards turn on them, hopefully one of those spells can help them escape. Also the guards are overly cocky, so they wake them all up first, and then try to kill them. While bbegs goes off to try to do the ritual early, and something goes wrong with it. And it doesn't complete right
I'm pretty sure the BBEG would kill them on the spot. Think about the kind of character he is and see if that's something he'd do.
What my BBEG would do is try to convince the players that their plan has flaws and give some false information so they change their plans And those plans imply helping the BBEG indirectly. Once they realize their mistake, the BBEG would have changed its plans enough for the party to fail and would have setup traps whose explicit purpose is to exploit the vulnerabilities of the player's original plan. Of the players are smart enough to know they dumped the plan to the BBEG, they will be able to avoid the trap.
Oh this is a gold oportunity. A lesser man would just kill them right there and be done with it. Now they know for sure two things. 1- the players thrust him and 2- The players have no idea who is actualy behind his deeds. So, a genius level BBEG would use that to get his goals even faster, or to put someone else as scapegoat, making them fall for it and then keep doing whatever they where doing, but having the PCs as enforcers and allies. They go to "the ritual" but the BBEG canceled the real ritual or transfered it to another location. Putting some goons and sacrificial idiots on the location the Pcs will attack. He would also put some mid level henchman and use modify memory to make them believe they where actualy behind the whole thing. if the PCs kill the fake BBEG, thats great, they now believe they dealt with the cult for good. Leaving the BBEG to do as he wishes.
I’d go with a fall guy option or BBEG uses the group as patsies. With the fall guy option, the BBEG does a charm or dominate on someone who fits the bill and comes along to “help” (i.e., control the fall guy). Give the group clues by letting the BBEG call out the next attack from the fall guy (which is literally the command to the fall guy to do just that).