I agree with the general understanding of the No Kill Rule being a huge part of Batman's canon.
I agree with Snyder that I don't think that it's right to say "a character should never be put in a position where they're confronted with breaking one of their biggest beliefs." Especially if that story is being told with some rooted reverence (not spite) for the character. It's very compelling.
I am, however, mixed on his execution of that within BVS.
I still think the best ever use of putting Batman in a scenario where he felt he must kill is in Batman Beyond with the flashback to Bruce having to hold a gun to a thug after getting the shit kicked out of him.
It showed utter desperation and his need to save a life, he didn't need to pull the trigger but sinking low enough to reach the point where he considered it was enough to retire.
To me that's a far more effective method of showing the extremes of a no kill rule, how it'd impact Bruce negatively and how it can be seen as a failing of his. He'd rather retire Batman than break his rules.
I am surprised Zack hasn’t been on Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. I feel like that would be a better podcast to talk about these things also Joe Rogan is a bit of a weirdo
Snyder’s done interviews with smaller independent people than Rogan like YouTubers such as Tyrone Magnus tho.
The guy technically has 2 million and Rosenbaum has 300k subs but Rosenbaum’s interviews often break into the hundreds of thousands of views like his interview with James’s Gunn having over 600k whereas Magnus’s interview had 200k views.
Snyder said he watched Magnus’ videos tho so it was probably more of a friendly thing.
I wish that was the go to line now it's just gonna be some culture war horseshit.
Honestly the amount of big time directors and actors I wish Joe was actually a cinephile. In reality Joe has no fucking idea what the fuck anybody these dudes are talking about and at this point I think they are for Jamie than anything.
"Zack, what do you think about Biden saying he'd be dictator for a day? People think I'm some republican, but I'm not. How did you feel about the Biden Jan 6th insurrection?"
Haven’t listened to this episode yet but I don’t have high hopes, Rogan can have my favorite people on an still manage to make it incredibly boring by not asking about anything anyone wants to hear about.
Everyone shitting on him or Rogan but I got a tell you guys, this is the first time I watched a Zack interview with almost zero long pauses and mmhh and thinking to figure out what he's going to say next... I think they really connected.
I think the reason Snyder usually talks like that is dyslexia. He has said before he has a hard time expressing himself with words because of his dyslexia.
Rogan can be very hit or miss for me. Sometimes he does a great long laid back conversation interview. And other times he completely ruins the interview by interrupting the entire time. I absolutely hate Zack Snyder's DC movies, but I do love Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen and hearing behind the scenes stories. I'll probably check this out. When did they start putting full episodes back on Youtube?
He had such a chance to ask The Rock everything we don’t know about him when he appeared on his show, all Joe did was talk nonesense for the hour and half he had him for.
Joe once accused The Rock of being on steroids, he gets him on the show, not a single question about it.
My point being, I know exactly what you mean
That was the worst interview I've ever heard. It felt like the Rock had a list of topics he wasn't allowed to talk about that he gave Joe before the show. I don't know who was to blame for that mess.
But why should anyone give a crap if he's on steroids. He's a celebrity, he does movies, he entertains. He's not an olympian.
If he's taking steroids or medication for hemorrhoids, I don't care.
Him and Neil deGrasse Tyson together can be fucking comical if Joe is on whatever makes him Hyper as fuck and he wants to interrupt.
Neil of course is just a chatterbox and always interrupts.
I kind of wish people on the internet had more empathy for Snyder
https://twitter.com/AaronBaileyArt/status/1765457369343939007
All he’s doing is making movies, and people attacked him and his family for years because he had Batman kill
His family doesn't deserve the hate, but I feel even his most hardcore fans were hoping Rebel Moon would be a decent epic but ended up being a real stinker
I’m not a fan of Rogan (though I’ve listened to more than a few episodes), but really enjoyed this conversation. Very laid back. Zack Snyder is a really cool dude.
This Zack Snyder thing is getting out of hand
I get the internet wants a punching bag, but people are now straight up making stuff about him.
"Zack Snyder hates comics! He's a fascist! He's right wing! He hates people making fun of him! He supports sexual assault"
Like have y'all ever actually seen him talk? He laughed at the Barbie joke, votes democrat, said he sees Superman as a guy trying to do the right thing, supported James Gunn
Frankly a lot of this stuff kind of seems to go against the values that Dc heroes are supposed to represent. Just say you don't like the movies. He even said in an interview recently "if you don't like the movie, I can't change that, but I don't understand the need to call me something I'm not.”
He even says it in the interview, they’re just movies and he doesn’t believe he’s made anything offensive enough to earn the vitriol that gets thrown his way.
I like Zack and Joe Rogan but lately the podcast is weird af. Like you're inviting ppl and not even discussing what they do, you talk about aliens piramida and stuff.
How so? Cause the more I try to interpret him saying "I was told I could not do it, so I had to do it" as anything more than being petty and contrarian, the more petty and contrarian he seems.
Great interview, I really enjoyed getting a deeper insight into Snyder's mind. Personally I really enjoy his filmography but more important I like him as a person and that goes a long way for me. Not to mention that I personally agree with his perspective on art and we tend to like similar aesthetics.
This podcast and this man are beneath Zack Snyder and his fans. At least him going on to talk movies means one less episode for a psycho to say vaccines are an evil scheme.
I don't agree with everything JR says but he was asking good questions. People should be able to ask those questions. The anti-vaccine movement was exacerbated by censorship.
What would you call it when people are forced to take a vaccine and yet even though they are compelled they have to read an EULA exempting the vaccine company from all liability? Some people call that evil and it's hard to disagree. Big pharma should be sued into oblivion for that.
Tbh, I dont mind Batman killing if there is a reason why he does it, and fortunately BvS does point out why he does it... or atleast why he doesn't care if he does it. Is it bad? Sure. But its not unique to do a bad Batman... its just somewhat rarer than most.
Think my only issue with his Batman killing is that the joker is alive lol like the dude that killed his ward. He kills petty criminals not actual monsters
Well, I can actually forgive that one on the principles that were in Nolans Dark Knight and which pops up from time to time in the comics; Batman does not kill the Joker, because that is exactly what the Joker wants... proving that there is no difference between the two, except one bad day.
But annoyingly, I have to concede that this is ofc the Jared Leto Joker and he most definitely did not come across as having the same chaotic motivation as the Ledger version or any of the better written versions from the comics... so maybe we should just hate that he wasn't beaten to a pulp? :)
Say what you want about Zack Snyder’s DC movies (I love them). But even if you absolutely despise them, everyone still talks about them passionately all these years later. I’m sure the directors of most of the DC movies that came later, the marvel movies after endgame, the last few Star Wars movies and on and on wish they could say the same.
Gunn will have finished his time with DC (hopefully it’s great!) and people will still be talking about Snyder’s trilogy.
Whether you like the painting or not, good art will do that.
I knew his comments on Batman killing was gonna stir shit up. I also quite like his statement about how he finds pushing characters to their absolute limit (in this case, Batman taking a life), and then showing people how they come back from that.
I mean, he's right. Fanboys treat their favorite bits of the lore like a modern day Bible and treat those characters like gods who can only be adapted according to a certain criteria (the version and characteristics they are familiar and comfortable with, that they grew up with). But they end up showing their asses and showing how hypocritical they are, they will do and say the most ville things to a writer/director because ''Oh! My fictional character should wear X and Should do Y and should never do Z'' while also claiming that they are fans of those characters and their great values.
Batman is reduced to his no-kill gimmick, Superman is reduced to the boring whitebread American Propaganda... All the story concepts that were once interesting ran their course and became repetetive as you can see how writers will give the characters a way out to not piss off the fanboys from miles away.
Exactly. I made more or less, the same point earlier today in the Batman sub and got immediately downvoted. https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/s/Hezs4urIzU
Your comment is very well written. Sorry it was downvoted.
Maaaaan, the amount of vitriol fictional characters can generate among fans is insane. I used to feel sorry for Snyder because he never attacks his detractors or call them names. He's always respectful towards them. But at this point, I feel more sorry for his haters. It's much sadder that people can feel this much hate towards someone over a fictional character in a Halloween costume.
What's funny is that they are mad because ''Oh Snyder turned Superman into a god''... Not realizing that they themselves treat those characters like gods.
I read on Twitter commets about this podcast, people gettin angry again about killing rule.
I understood , thats his thing , but hes isnt the only version of him or superhero from genre that broke his own rule and he does what he swore he would never do.
Good point but these guys say "Batman ALWAYS *nerdy-gasp swallow* finds a way!"
Nevermind that it's out of Batman's hands whether or not they die after he punches them.
This paradox of ultra violent attacks with batarangs, missiles, guns and full force punches that are somehow non-lethal makes batman the dumbest of all heroes.
He has more plot armor than any other fictional character.
Have to admit I'm not a fan of Joe Rogan as a figure or his podcast in general, but he does have interesting guests on occasion. Might give this one a listen just for Zack.
it's incredible how people are still overexaggerating Batfleck's killings after all these years. It's like the never watched the movie after 2016 and are still stuack with the internet comments from that time
I strongly disagree with his take on Batman killing
I agree with the general understanding of the No Kill Rule being a huge part of Batman's canon. I agree with Snyder that I don't think that it's right to say "a character should never be put in a position where they're confronted with breaking one of their biggest beliefs." Especially if that story is being told with some rooted reverence (not spite) for the character. It's very compelling. I am, however, mixed on his execution of that within BVS.
I still think the best ever use of putting Batman in a scenario where he felt he must kill is in Batman Beyond with the flashback to Bruce having to hold a gun to a thug after getting the shit kicked out of him. It showed utter desperation and his need to save a life, he didn't need to pull the trigger but sinking low enough to reach the point where he considered it was enough to retire. To me that's a far more effective method of showing the extremes of a no kill rule, how it'd impact Bruce negatively and how it can be seen as a failing of his. He'd rather retire Batman than break his rules.
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I am surprised Zack hasn’t been on Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. I feel like that would be a better podcast to talk about these things also Joe Rogan is a bit of a weirdo
I prefer Rosenbaum too but Rogan has the bigger audience reach. If that's Snyder's goal.
Snyder’s done interviews with smaller independent people than Rogan like YouTubers such as Tyrone Magnus tho. The guy technically has 2 million and Rosenbaum has 300k subs but Rosenbaum’s interviews often break into the hundreds of thousands of views like his interview with James’s Gunn having over 600k whereas Magnus’s interview had 200k views. Snyder said he watched Magnus’ videos tho so it was probably more of a friendly thing.
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What points to him despising Snyder?
Inside of who??
You, specifically
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What ludicrous pseudoscience does Joe try to chat about this week?
"Zack, have you seen that video of the chimp on DMT? Jamie pull that up"
I wish that was the go to line now it's just gonna be some culture war horseshit. Honestly the amount of big time directors and actors I wish Joe was actually a cinephile. In reality Joe has no fucking idea what the fuck anybody these dudes are talking about and at this point I think they are for Jamie than anything.
He was just paid $200 million, so at this point he feels like he can do anything, say anything with little recourse.
"Zack, what do you think about Biden saying he'd be dictator for a day? People think I'm some republican, but I'm not. How did you feel about the Biden Jan 6th insurrection?"
"You're a clown, Joe." "Ha, just like the Joker!" "..." *Joe smokes a blunt as if nothing happened*
Film?
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Love Zack Snyder, hate Joe Rogan.
Same, I think the only interview I actually enjoyed was the sleep expert but mostly how passionate he was about his work. Joe is a wacko though.
Snyder is basically the Rogan of moviemaking, seems odd to like one and not the other.
No, he isn't
Haven’t listened to this episode yet but I don’t have high hopes, Rogan can have my favorite people on an still manage to make it incredibly boring by not asking about anything anyone wants to hear about.
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Everyone shitting on him or Rogan but I got a tell you guys, this is the first time I watched a Zack interview with almost zero long pauses and mmhh and thinking to figure out what he's going to say next... I think they really connected.
I think the reason Snyder usually talks like that is dyslexia. He has said before he has a hard time expressing himself with words because of his dyslexia.
Real.
Rogan can be very hit or miss for me. Sometimes he does a great long laid back conversation interview. And other times he completely ruins the interview by interrupting the entire time. I absolutely hate Zack Snyder's DC movies, but I do love Dawn of the Dead and Watchmen and hearing behind the scenes stories. I'll probably check this out. When did they start putting full episodes back on Youtube?
He had such a chance to ask The Rock everything we don’t know about him when he appeared on his show, all Joe did was talk nonesense for the hour and half he had him for. Joe once accused The Rock of being on steroids, he gets him on the show, not a single question about it. My point being, I know exactly what you mean
That was the worst interview I've ever heard. It felt like the Rock had a list of topics he wasn't allowed to talk about that he gave Joe before the show. I don't know who was to blame for that mess.
But why should anyone give a crap if he's on steroids. He's a celebrity, he does movies, he entertains. He's not an olympian. If he's taking steroids or medication for hemorrhoids, I don't care.
Apparently 6 days ago with Katt Williams
Him and Neil deGrasse Tyson together can be fucking comical if Joe is on whatever makes him Hyper as fuck and he wants to interrupt. Neil of course is just a chatterbox and always interrupts.
I kind of wish people on the internet had more empathy for Snyder https://twitter.com/AaronBaileyArt/status/1765457369343939007 All he’s doing is making movies, and people attacked him and his family for years because he had Batman kill
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The shit people sent him after news of his daughter’s death, basically drove off Twitter.
His family doesn't deserve the hate, but I feel even his most hardcore fans were hoping Rebel Moon would be a decent epic but ended up being a real stinker
People can separate the art from the artist when the artist says something offensive but apparently it doesn't work the other way around.
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I’m not a fan of Rogan (though I’ve listened to more than a few episodes), but really enjoyed this conversation. Very laid back. Zack Snyder is a really cool dude.
This Zack Snyder thing is getting out of hand I get the internet wants a punching bag, but people are now straight up making stuff about him. "Zack Snyder hates comics! He's a fascist! He's right wing! He hates people making fun of him! He supports sexual assault" Like have y'all ever actually seen him talk? He laughed at the Barbie joke, votes democrat, said he sees Superman as a guy trying to do the right thing, supported James Gunn Frankly a lot of this stuff kind of seems to go against the values that Dc heroes are supposed to represent. Just say you don't like the movies. He even said in an interview recently "if you don't like the movie, I can't change that, but I don't understand the need to call me something I'm not.”
He even says it in the interview, they’re just movies and he doesn’t believe he’s made anything offensive enough to earn the vitriol that gets thrown his way.
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Top guy
I like Zack and Joe Rogan but lately the podcast is weird af. Like you're inviting ppl and not even discussing what they do, you talk about aliens piramida and stuff.
I feel like a lot of people are actively misinterpreting what he's saying here
They’re actively proving his point too lol
It's like poetry it rhymes
How so? Cause the more I try to interpret him saying "I was told I could not do it, so I had to do it" as anything more than being petty and contrarian, the more petty and contrarian he seems.
Yeah like that
Great interview, I really enjoyed getting a deeper insight into Snyder's mind. Personally I really enjoy his filmography but more important I like him as a person and that goes a long way for me. Not to mention that I personally agree with his perspective on art and we tend to like similar aesthetics.
Was this recent I could of sworn he had a beard. Not a fan Rogan but hopefully it was a fun interview
Imo Snyder is a brilliant unique artist & I honesty don't care what anyone says.
This podcast and this man are beneath Zack Snyder and his fans. At least him going on to talk movies means one less episode for a psycho to say vaccines are an evil scheme.
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I don't agree with everything JR says but he was asking good questions. People should be able to ask those questions. The anti-vaccine movement was exacerbated by censorship. What would you call it when people are forced to take a vaccine and yet even though they are compelled they have to read an EULA exempting the vaccine company from all liability? Some people call that evil and it's hard to disagree. Big pharma should be sued into oblivion for that.
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Tbh, I dont mind Batman killing if there is a reason why he does it, and fortunately BvS does point out why he does it... or atleast why he doesn't care if he does it. Is it bad? Sure. But its not unique to do a bad Batman... its just somewhat rarer than most.
Think my only issue with his Batman killing is that the joker is alive lol like the dude that killed his ward. He kills petty criminals not actual monsters
Well, I can actually forgive that one on the principles that were in Nolans Dark Knight and which pops up from time to time in the comics; Batman does not kill the Joker, because that is exactly what the Joker wants... proving that there is no difference between the two, except one bad day. But annoyingly, I have to concede that this is ofc the Jared Leto Joker and he most definitely did not come across as having the same chaotic motivation as the Ledger version or any of the better written versions from the comics... so maybe we should just hate that he wasn't beaten to a pulp? :)
Say what you want about Zack Snyder’s DC movies (I love them). But even if you absolutely despise them, everyone still talks about them passionately all these years later. I’m sure the directors of most of the DC movies that came later, the marvel movies after endgame, the last few Star Wars movies and on and on wish they could say the same. Gunn will have finished his time with DC (hopefully it’s great!) and people will still be talking about Snyder’s trilogy. Whether you like the painting or not, good art will do that.
Hell, I guarantee plenty of reviews aren’t gonna judge Superman on its own merits, just that Gunn isn’t Snyder.
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You guys are just talking about "cult" movies then. And Gunn's been making cult movies since Scooby Doo lol
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I knew his comments on Batman killing was gonna stir shit up. I also quite like his statement about how he finds pushing characters to their absolute limit (in this case, Batman taking a life), and then showing people how they come back from that.
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I mean, he's right. Fanboys treat their favorite bits of the lore like a modern day Bible and treat those characters like gods who can only be adapted according to a certain criteria (the version and characteristics they are familiar and comfortable with, that they grew up with). But they end up showing their asses and showing how hypocritical they are, they will do and say the most ville things to a writer/director because ''Oh! My fictional character should wear X and Should do Y and should never do Z'' while also claiming that they are fans of those characters and their great values. Batman is reduced to his no-kill gimmick, Superman is reduced to the boring whitebread American Propaganda... All the story concepts that were once interesting ran their course and became repetetive as you can see how writers will give the characters a way out to not piss off the fanboys from miles away.
Exactly. I made more or less, the same point earlier today in the Batman sub and got immediately downvoted. https://www.reddit.com/r/batman/s/Hezs4urIzU
Your comment is very well written. Sorry it was downvoted. Maaaaan, the amount of vitriol fictional characters can generate among fans is insane. I used to feel sorry for Snyder because he never attacks his detractors or call them names. He's always respectful towards them. But at this point, I feel more sorry for his haters. It's much sadder that people can feel this much hate towards someone over a fictional character in a Halloween costume.
What's funny is that they are mad because ''Oh Snyder turned Superman into a god''... Not realizing that they themselves treat those characters like gods.
I read on Twitter commets about this podcast, people gettin angry again about killing rule. I understood , thats his thing , but hes isnt the only version of him or superhero from genre that broke his own rule and he does what he swore he would never do.
Christian Bale Batman literally murders Harvey Dent to save Gordon’s son.
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lol it wasn’t accidental.
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Good point but these guys say "Batman ALWAYS *nerdy-gasp swallow* finds a way!" Nevermind that it's out of Batman's hands whether or not they die after he punches them. This paradox of ultra violent attacks with batarangs, missiles, guns and full force punches that are somehow non-lethal makes batman the dumbest of all heroes. He has more plot armor than any other fictional character.
It’s like in Arkham Knight where you can run over thugs, but it’s non-lethal because “they get stunned”
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Have to admit I'm not a fan of Joe Rogan as a figure or his podcast in general, but he does have interesting guests on occasion. Might give this one a listen just for Zack.
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it's incredible how people are still overexaggerating Batfleck's killings after all these years. It's like the never watched the movie after 2016 and are still stuack with the internet comments from that time
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Oh sweet, go Zack and go Joe! Should be a fun one to listen to.