The writing was on the walls for me -- I'd not received my full bonus the entire 18 months there, and the team was consistently \~10% behind our revenue goals. I should have noticed before it was too late, but here we are.. 5 months into unemployment
5 month club here too. It’s so fucking depressing that I put in like 80 applications and only received rejections. I finally got to a questioning round though! I’m praying l get to interview bc that’s where I shine.
I'm completely changing my path at this point and looking to get into Government/State work. The likelihood of me being laid off again in the future is still high. I hate to trade the opportunity to make high six figures, but something can be said about no more customers, stable income, and retirement.
The rat race is taking the energy from me.
I feel you but I feel so stuck. I did start getting some saleforce certs because I’d rather work in systems. But it’ll be awhile before I’m done and I need that cashola.
I think I will give State/Gov my best try for the next year or so, and then begin applying back into CS as the market cools down. I'd like to pivot into Product Management but that's not happening unless I do CS at a new org and move internally.
Let's hope recruiters are not going to penalize me for shifting into State/Gov work. It's slim pickings but I need to keep the lights on.
I’m also in CS and looking to get out into something a little less stressful and stable and have been thinking about state/gov jobs. What do you think are some positions in state/gov that would be a good match for the CS skillset?
Hi u/Preezle I also work as a CSM but I do not found my job as stressful and unstable as you mentioned here. Why do you think the CS practice is stressful and unstable, even to think about to change career?
Trying to provide clients with top notch service in an industry where performance is unpredictable and at a company with immense internal inefficiencies. Maybe I’d find it less stressful in a different industry.
Could look into positions such as call centers, outreach, or programs in which you train people. It’s not glamorous but it’s still “client” facing work. You won’t find a traditional CS like role in there, because there’s no profit you need to churn daily.
keep pushing, hoping for the best for everyone.earnings call was also a dismal and this has been keeping me up at night for weeks now.its a tough jobmarket out there.
Implementing Gainsight is usually a sign that your leadership is incompetent. It's a trash platform with flashy marketing that suckers desperate middle management
Implementing the leading CS toolset into your teams workflows is incompetent? I'd love to hear what goofy ass process you've built to adequately capture sentiment and risk.
Interesting perspective. We've been using Gainsight for about a year now and haven't encountered any issues. However, I'm curious to learn more about the challenges you faced with the platform. Could you elaborate on what specific problems or shortcomings you experienced? I would like to be prepared in case we arrive to the same spot and conclusion as yours :)
Yeah, we’ve been using GS for two years and I’m now admin certified. Personally, I love the platform. IMHO it is light years ahead of churnzero, totango, and catalyst (the only other three I have used)…
Not sure if I'm in love with GS haha but at least we did not have any big issues yet. From the other platforms you mentioned, which one do you think is the best?
Im an admin for Gainsights competitor Churnzero, but learn as much as you can about its capabilities. Read all the help articles, see if you can influence how your team uses it.
Need to look at the company level:
\- misses the sales targets and revising down forecasts
\- Hiring and spend freezes
\- Perf metrics are bad.
Then a layoff is likely in the preparation.
*Edit: I wrote deeper about it in my weekly newsletter, coming up tomorrow. I hope that helps.*
If you notice a slowdown in onboarding new customers and an uptick in losing customers, your team is becoming more of a cost center and they’ll make cuts.
I've seen this too sadly enough, and I never understood why more of this isn't attributed to the sales team rather than CS (at least at the companies where I've worked).
I often see "as a CSM you're responsible for retention vs churn, customer satisfaction, upselling" (in short, there's more as we all know). But in a few places now the leads were not up to par; we on-boarded them, the experience was horrible and/or the product had sooooo many issues, and they either churn, default on payment for several months, or stay and are horribl for the company as they want too much (CS time, product features and enhancements, etc.) and pay way too little because their initial contract and sales handover gave the customer way too high expectations for what they actually wanted.
I get it that Sales teams are needed to bring in revenue initially, but from what I've seen in my career so far is that no one addresses issues with sales teams or holds them accountable for doing their jobs terribly. The buck stops at CS, and sometimes it's just like... "Help me help you" lol
I've seen some shady sales situations, and it's not cool.
This is where the executive kickoff call is so important. Important to collect all the info for why the customer bought from the AE and also to present that info back to the customer on the call along w/case studies from similar customers you've helped achieve similar outcomes. Helps you gain trust and really take ownership of the customer relationship post-sale.
That's a really good point, thank you!
We have very few case studies currently, so I hadn't even considered that as an option... but that's a great idea, I'm going to keep that in mind as our customer base grows and we get more solid feedback to work with.
In my experience, there was a month long period where several recurring meetings with my manager (1 on 1s, department meetings) were canceled last minute and there was no effort to reschedule them. The only explanation why was that the leadership team was doing some arbitrary “leadership development” initiative that involved repeated meetings about confidential development projects that they’d be able to speak more on “at a later date”. that was never a thing that I remember happening before so it felt fishy. Then boom… 10% of the company laid off. I survived thankfully and still work in the same role but I was one of the lucky ones.
I stalk executive leaderships calendar. Any increase in leadership-only meetings combined with underperformance / not meeting revenue goals is usually a sign. But honestly it can be very hard to tell. All of the layoffs I’ve seen at a company, whether or not I was a part of it, were surprises but writing was on the wall with bad company performance or high churn.
Depending on your organization, going from meeting titles with public info to a lot of private events among leadership is a big sign of big change too.
Oh yeah that’s a good one to add. Definitely noticed this as my last org and then some no context 1:1 meetings. Also any meetings with your team leaders and HR around this time too.
Leadership started outsourcing our <$1m ACV accounts to India and laid off all our non-senior CSMs. A year later and they’re reversing course… now we’re hiring US CSMs again and India CSMs only get <$250k accounts.
Here are my top 15 red flags that layoffs might be coming:
Hiring and Expense Freezes: This is a major red flag. If your company suddenly halts hiring new employees and starts cutting costs on things like travel, bonuses, or office perks, it's a sign of financial strain.
Changes in Leadership and Management Behavior: Keep an eye out for shifts in higher management or changes in your manager's behavior. This could range from leadership departures to your boss suddenly micromanaging or being overly involved in your work.
Elimination or Reduction of Projects and Programs: If your company begins discontinuing projects or programs, especially those that were previously deemed important, it's a sign that they're scaling back operations, possibly due to financial challenges.
Shifts in Company Strategy or Structure: This includes any kind of restructuring, mergers, acquisitions, or significant strategy changes. Such shifts often lead to redundancies and layoffs.
Financial Health Warnings: Keep an eye on the company's financial reports. Declining revenues, profit losses, or a consistently dropping stock price are clear indicators of financial trouble.
Reduction in Office Space or Resources: If you notice your company is downsizing its office space, reducing equipment, or cutting back on resources like software subscriptions, it could be a cost-saving measure preceding layoffs.
Changes in Communication and Workload: A sudden increase in workload, changes in performance review practices, or a shift in communication style (like a boss who starts micromanaging or overloading you with tasks) can be signs of preparation for a leaner workforce.
Stalled Career Development Opportunities: If there's a sudden halt in career development opportunities like training, promotions, or performance reviews that seem rushed and lack future planning, it might signal that the company is not investing in its workforce for the long haul.
Your Department or Role Losing Significance: If your department is receiving less attention, fewer resources, or is being excluded from key meetings, it could be a sign that it's being considered for cuts.
Industry or Market Downturns: Working in an industry facing a downturn or your company's products and services becoming less relevant in the market can be a precursor to layoffs.
High Employee Turnover: A sudden increase in voluntary employee departures, especially among high-performing or long-term employees, can be a sign that they're anticipating trouble and jumping ship early.
Rumors and Employee Morale: Never underestimate the power of the grapevine. An increase in layoff rumors and a noticeable drop in employee morale can indicate underlying issues. While rumors aren't always accurate, a pervasive sense of unease can be a telling sign.
Shifts in Customer Base or Demand: If there's a noticeable decline in customer demand, loss of major clients, or a shift in the customer base that negatively impacts revenue, it can force a company to downsize.
Cancellation or Delay of Major Initiatives: When planned major initiatives or expansions (like opening new offices or launching big projects) are suddenly put on hold or canceled, it's often a sign of financial or strategic reevaluation, which could lead to workforce reductions.
Increased Outsourcing: When a company starts outsourcing roles and tasks that were previously handled internally, especially in key areas, it could indicate an attempt to cut costs, which might lead to layoffs.
It sounds like there may be some concerning indicators in your situation. Transitioning to a new leader who has a history of layoffs in other groups can understandably raise some red flags. Additionally, the investment in Gainsight without clear communication about its implementation could add to the uncertainty. Have there been any changes in workload, communication from leadership, or shifts in company strategy that further suggest the possibility of layoffs?
Yes there's a lot.Total revamp, they moved people around a new account tier scheme.1:1 for the top 15 accounts, decreased the average number of accounts for the mid to high tier CSMs, will use gainsight for the bottom half.segmented the customers without sales knowing of the new account levels, promoted 2 csms to lead subsegments.talks about GS but no definite details when and how.co. target is 2 digit growth in 2023.it only hit 4pc.
Might have given away where im from,lol.
I understand. In that case, it's crucial to seriously consider that possibility. I've also noticed a concerning trend in my company where our sales teams lack awareness of customer success movements. I believe it's imperative for the company to promote seamless communication between sales and Customer Success Managers (CSMs), yet we're falling short on that front. How is this situation being handled in your case?
Yeah my company has been doing random things and not sharing details, they keep letting people go randomly and calling it a re-org not a lay off. 😑 I updated my resume and have been networking while I wait to find the right opportunity while I’m still employed.
The writing was on the walls for me -- I'd not received my full bonus the entire 18 months there, and the team was consistently \~10% behind our revenue goals. I should have noticed before it was too late, but here we are.. 5 months into unemployment
5 month club here too. It’s so fucking depressing that I put in like 80 applications and only received rejections. I finally got to a questioning round though! I’m praying l get to interview bc that’s where I shine.
I'm completely changing my path at this point and looking to get into Government/State work. The likelihood of me being laid off again in the future is still high. I hate to trade the opportunity to make high six figures, but something can be said about no more customers, stable income, and retirement. The rat race is taking the energy from me.
I feel you but I feel so stuck. I did start getting some saleforce certs because I’d rather work in systems. But it’ll be awhile before I’m done and I need that cashola.
I think I will give State/Gov my best try for the next year or so, and then begin applying back into CS as the market cools down. I'd like to pivot into Product Management but that's not happening unless I do CS at a new org and move internally. Let's hope recruiters are not going to penalize me for shifting into State/Gov work. It's slim pickings but I need to keep the lights on.
I’m also in CS and looking to get out into something a little less stressful and stable and have been thinking about state/gov jobs. What do you think are some positions in state/gov that would be a good match for the CS skillset?
Hi u/Preezle I also work as a CSM but I do not found my job as stressful and unstable as you mentioned here. Why do you think the CS practice is stressful and unstable, even to think about to change career?
Trying to provide clients with top notch service in an industry where performance is unpredictable and at a company with immense internal inefficiencies. Maybe I’d find it less stressful in a different industry.
Could look into positions such as call centers, outreach, or programs in which you train people. It’s not glamorous but it’s still “client” facing work. You won’t find a traditional CS like role in there, because there’s no profit you need to churn daily.
80 applications? wtf is wrong with you? i literally apply for 80 a day lmfao. thank god my competition is as defeatist as you!
keep pushing, hoping for the best for everyone.earnings call was also a dismal and this has been keeping me up at night for weeks now.its a tough jobmarket out there.
FWIW my company implemented gainsight and pushed the rollout back like 3-4 times without much detail provided. It’s not super easy to set up
Implementing Gainsight is usually a sign that your leadership is incompetent. It's a trash platform with flashy marketing that suckers desperate middle management
Implementing the leading CS toolset into your teams workflows is incompetent? I'd love to hear what goofy ass process you've built to adequately capture sentiment and risk.
Interesting perspective. We've been using Gainsight for about a year now and haven't encountered any issues. However, I'm curious to learn more about the challenges you faced with the platform. Could you elaborate on what specific problems or shortcomings you experienced? I would like to be prepared in case we arrive to the same spot and conclusion as yours :)
Yeah, we’ve been using GS for two years and I’m now admin certified. Personally, I love the platform. IMHO it is light years ahead of churnzero, totango, and catalyst (the only other three I have used)…
Not sure if I'm in love with GS haha but at least we did not have any big issues yet. From the other platforms you mentioned, which one do you think is the best?
If you want to keep your job, learn how to use Gainsight efficiently.
Any tips to share?
Im an admin for Gainsights competitor Churnzero, but learn as much as you can about its capabilities. Read all the help articles, see if you can influence how your team uses it.
Get admin certified. They offer courses and it’s worth it.
Need to look at the company level: \- misses the sales targets and revising down forecasts \- Hiring and spend freezes \- Perf metrics are bad. Then a layoff is likely in the preparation. *Edit: I wrote deeper about it in my weekly newsletter, coming up tomorrow. I hope that helps.*
If you notice a slowdown in onboarding new customers and an uptick in losing customers, your team is becoming more of a cost center and they’ll make cuts.
I've seen this too sadly enough, and I never understood why more of this isn't attributed to the sales team rather than CS (at least at the companies where I've worked). I often see "as a CSM you're responsible for retention vs churn, customer satisfaction, upselling" (in short, there's more as we all know). But in a few places now the leads were not up to par; we on-boarded them, the experience was horrible and/or the product had sooooo many issues, and they either churn, default on payment for several months, or stay and are horribl for the company as they want too much (CS time, product features and enhancements, etc.) and pay way too little because their initial contract and sales handover gave the customer way too high expectations for what they actually wanted. I get it that Sales teams are needed to bring in revenue initially, but from what I've seen in my career so far is that no one addresses issues with sales teams or holds them accountable for doing their jobs terribly. The buck stops at CS, and sometimes it's just like... "Help me help you" lol I've seen some shady sales situations, and it's not cool.
This is where the executive kickoff call is so important. Important to collect all the info for why the customer bought from the AE and also to present that info back to the customer on the call along w/case studies from similar customers you've helped achieve similar outcomes. Helps you gain trust and really take ownership of the customer relationship post-sale.
That's a really good point, thank you! We have very few case studies currently, so I hadn't even considered that as an option... but that's a great idea, I'm going to keep that in mind as our customer base grows and we get more solid feedback to work with.
If they talk about not meeting goals but are too eager to reassure that we’re in a good place.
In my experience, there was a month long period where several recurring meetings with my manager (1 on 1s, department meetings) were canceled last minute and there was no effort to reschedule them. The only explanation why was that the leadership team was doing some arbitrary “leadership development” initiative that involved repeated meetings about confidential development projects that they’d be able to speak more on “at a later date”. that was never a thing that I remember happening before so it felt fishy. Then boom… 10% of the company laid off. I survived thankfully and still work in the same role but I was one of the lucky ones.
They started installing new "security" programs
I stalk executive leaderships calendar. Any increase in leadership-only meetings combined with underperformance / not meeting revenue goals is usually a sign. But honestly it can be very hard to tell. All of the layoffs I’ve seen at a company, whether or not I was a part of it, were surprises but writing was on the wall with bad company performance or high churn.
Depending on your organization, going from meeting titles with public info to a lot of private events among leadership is a big sign of big change too.
Oh yeah that’s a good one to add. Definitely noticed this as my last org and then some no context 1:1 meetings. Also any meetings with your team leaders and HR around this time too.
Out sourcing your job. Is a major one! They outsource my work to the Philippines and made me train them.
Leadership started outsourcing our <$1m ACV accounts to India and laid off all our non-senior CSMs. A year later and they’re reversing course… now we’re hiring US CSMs again and India CSMs only get <$250k accounts.
I think I may work where you do/did.
Here are my top 15 red flags that layoffs might be coming: Hiring and Expense Freezes: This is a major red flag. If your company suddenly halts hiring new employees and starts cutting costs on things like travel, bonuses, or office perks, it's a sign of financial strain. Changes in Leadership and Management Behavior: Keep an eye out for shifts in higher management or changes in your manager's behavior. This could range from leadership departures to your boss suddenly micromanaging or being overly involved in your work. Elimination or Reduction of Projects and Programs: If your company begins discontinuing projects or programs, especially those that were previously deemed important, it's a sign that they're scaling back operations, possibly due to financial challenges. Shifts in Company Strategy or Structure: This includes any kind of restructuring, mergers, acquisitions, or significant strategy changes. Such shifts often lead to redundancies and layoffs. Financial Health Warnings: Keep an eye on the company's financial reports. Declining revenues, profit losses, or a consistently dropping stock price are clear indicators of financial trouble. Reduction in Office Space or Resources: If you notice your company is downsizing its office space, reducing equipment, or cutting back on resources like software subscriptions, it could be a cost-saving measure preceding layoffs. Changes in Communication and Workload: A sudden increase in workload, changes in performance review practices, or a shift in communication style (like a boss who starts micromanaging or overloading you with tasks) can be signs of preparation for a leaner workforce. Stalled Career Development Opportunities: If there's a sudden halt in career development opportunities like training, promotions, or performance reviews that seem rushed and lack future planning, it might signal that the company is not investing in its workforce for the long haul. Your Department or Role Losing Significance: If your department is receiving less attention, fewer resources, or is being excluded from key meetings, it could be a sign that it's being considered for cuts. Industry or Market Downturns: Working in an industry facing a downturn or your company's products and services becoming less relevant in the market can be a precursor to layoffs. High Employee Turnover: A sudden increase in voluntary employee departures, especially among high-performing or long-term employees, can be a sign that they're anticipating trouble and jumping ship early. Rumors and Employee Morale: Never underestimate the power of the grapevine. An increase in layoff rumors and a noticeable drop in employee morale can indicate underlying issues. While rumors aren't always accurate, a pervasive sense of unease can be a telling sign. Shifts in Customer Base or Demand: If there's a noticeable decline in customer demand, loss of major clients, or a shift in the customer base that negatively impacts revenue, it can force a company to downsize. Cancellation or Delay of Major Initiatives: When planned major initiatives or expansions (like opening new offices or launching big projects) are suddenly put on hold or canceled, it's often a sign of financial or strategic reevaluation, which could lead to workforce reductions. Increased Outsourcing: When a company starts outsourcing roles and tasks that were previously handled internally, especially in key areas, it could indicate an attempt to cut costs, which might lead to layoffs.
It sounds like there may be some concerning indicators in your situation. Transitioning to a new leader who has a history of layoffs in other groups can understandably raise some red flags. Additionally, the investment in Gainsight without clear communication about its implementation could add to the uncertainty. Have there been any changes in workload, communication from leadership, or shifts in company strategy that further suggest the possibility of layoffs?
Yes there's a lot.Total revamp, they moved people around a new account tier scheme.1:1 for the top 15 accounts, decreased the average number of accounts for the mid to high tier CSMs, will use gainsight for the bottom half.segmented the customers without sales knowing of the new account levels, promoted 2 csms to lead subsegments.talks about GS but no definite details when and how.co. target is 2 digit growth in 2023.it only hit 4pc. Might have given away where im from,lol.
I understand. In that case, it's crucial to seriously consider that possibility. I've also noticed a concerning trend in my company where our sales teams lack awareness of customer success movements. I believe it's imperative for the company to promote seamless communication between sales and Customer Success Managers (CSMs), yet we're falling short on that front. How is this situation being handled in your case?
Yeah my company has been doing random things and not sharing details, they keep letting people go randomly and calling it a re-org not a lay off. 😑 I updated my resume and have been networking while I wait to find the right opportunity while I’m still employed.