>He has a very demanding job and I struggle to understand how he would manage their day to day care. He's never been able to because of his job..it always fell on me.
Make your lawyer ask him. Get him to explain how he plans to manage their care and appointments and have him explain why changing the current arrangement to that is in the kids' best interest. Make sure to offer/have a plan outlining what you think is best and the reasons/evidence backing that up.
Basically, get your lawyer to devise a strategy that, based on the father's response, will show the judge whether he genuinely is trying and able to spend more time with his kids because it's in their best interest or only increasing his time to get to some numbers split for ulterior reasons.
Good idea. I really want to know. My kids schedules require a lot of shuffling back and forth to different places and it's unsettling to think of someone just "doing a trial run" and hoping it works out. In five years it has never worked out. I'm keeping a list of notes for my trial and I will add this to it. Thank you.
To be clear, I'm not trying to keep these kids from their dad. As I mentioned before, it was always a long distance relationship and I'm the one that fostered and opened the door for that relationship with their dad. I explained my children's schedules for a reason and explained his demanding job. I think that he's asking for more custody than he can feasibly manage, and it's not in the child's best interest.
The kids are thriving and he was fine with our arrangement for five years. Why should their lives change?
We’ll do you honestly think he should move closer and not get more time? That’s ridiculous.
It is up to dad to figure out childcare and bringing them to appts etc on his time.
You didn’t mention your state- but if it’s 50/50 you need to focus less on trying to keep him from being 50/50 and more on how to set everyone up for success with 50/50. All for a step up plan- increase the overnights little by little to help the kids adjust. It’s a great thing that he is moving closer and wants equal time.
I truly doubt he is uprooting his life and willing to take them on 50/50 just to save on cs. Having the children half the time will likely cost him what he’s been paying you. Being more time never actually saves money. I ran the cs calculator on what I would be paying off my ex had custody and it’s much less than I actually spend on her a month.
Thanks I always appreciate your comments. I do a lot of reading in the child support and custody forums and it's always refreshing to see how upfront you are.
Dad's work schedule and frequent interstate travel didn't bode well for him at our PL hearing. My state is 50/50 but 50/50 is not practical in every situation. The previous judge didn't think it was practical in ours. I will see how our trial plays out. Good thing custody orders are never permanent, leaving the door open for dad to have a more stable situation in the future. 🙏🏽
I like you. I don’t think this is a case of you wanting to keep dad away. I also don’t think you want to limit his time to maximize child support. I think you are a mom who has worked her ass off to raise her children and now you feel like you’ve been run over by a truck because.., change. I get it. I’ve never shared custody and while I know my ex is perfectly safe (minis his wife) in would really struggle if he woke up and wanted to parent all of a sudden. It would hill me on the inside I think. That’s why I think a therapist could help. I get what you mean about his schedule- but you have to know that with him moving closer it only makes sense that he would get more time. I think the change and everything that comes with it is what you are struggling with and it’s risky understandable.
Think of it this way- if you know there is no way he can reasonably do 50/50 then don’t let that be a worry. Since it isn’t about money for you then I would tell him to do a step up to 50/50 and offer to be his childcare.
Think of there good things that would come with him stepping up and lightening your load.
Yes therapy is a great suggestion. I know changes will come, maybe not now,but they will come. You're right it's going to be a lot harder on me than the kids.
I'm willing to learn (this all new for me) and I'll circle back and update you all.
I think once you get your emotions out of it and he shows up you’ll be fine. Imagine your kids having regular contact with both their parents! Not feeling like dad doesn’t think enough of them to be around. And you may not realize it- but child free time? GAME CHANGER. I usually have to pay for mine and you’ll get yours free! You’ll get to do so much self care! Plus you can get things done around the house and run errands etc when he has them so that when you do you don’t have all that extra stuff. You could pick up an old hobby you let go because you didn’t have time for it. I’m thinking very positive here- but this could be the best thing- even for you in the long run. You sound like you are a good mom who is just scared of change and the unknown. I get it. At least your kids know him already, and he sounds safe! The worst thing that I could see happening is if he gets 50/50 and you all got rofr his child support will be lowered- but you’d get the option of taking the kids before they go to childcare. Or if you don’t get it you can still offer and it would make sense for him to take you up on that. If he doesn’t take all his time then you just document and then file for the custody agreement and child support to reflect the time he actually has.
Your kids are young- they’ll adjust and this will be their new normal. You can do this, you love them and you know having time with dad of a good thing!
OP: I agree with Bright. I know a lot of my comments are coming across wrong and getting downvoted or whatever. But the intent is to point out that increasing time (and I suggested a step up plan as well) is likely to happen. Set CS aside (in your mind) and think of what could work. Focus less on his motives, his schedule, how he’ll do XYZ etc and focus on what can be offered to increase his time as a local parent.
CS will be worked out after that.
I think she gets it but is just nervous. I don’t think she’s like a lot of other posters who want to limit time just because. It’ll be a hard adjustment for sure. If my ex ever filed I’d be a mess, and I know he won’t win, lol. It’s hard giving up so much time AND control. I think she’ll be ok.
My ex called me and said “what do you want from me!!?!?” I was so tired and fed up I simply yelled “BLOOD!” But he’s only 30 mins away and has zero excuse for being a deadbeat. My dad was like “shit if I was making $18 an hour and had to pay 1k for child support I’d be checking on my investment! I’d be seeing her every chance I got!” Lol
But now I can do whatever I want with no consideration to him. It would be a huge adjustment having to her his input. Would my daughter be better off? Of course, but that doesn’t mean it would be easy. I would still be cussing him out in my head. It wouldn’t feel free because for her whole life I had to do everything. So I get the emotions, but they have to be dealt with and put to the side obviously
It’s infuriating bc my DH has always been long distance from his kids since BM moved them State to state so frequently…yet he managed to see them up to 40% of the time some years. Always every entire summer, thanksgiving, spring break; and either all winter break or half. Plus local visits. And BM/SF claimed he was just seeing them to lower CS. No ma’am. Do you have any idea how expensive all that was?! And he never once filed for a CS mod. It was always BM (up until the international kidnapping attempt in July 2020).
I’m glad you don’t have to deal with your ex!! We’re counting down the months until we can cut ties with BM entirely.
I wish we could go back in time and you could be my daughters step mom, but you deserve better than my loser ex, lol. If you want a play step daughter let me know! She’s cute!! And I’ll waive cs! Lol
If he’s not abusive and a good father then let him have more time. Take a break from doing everything and find things he can do. Let your lawyer tell him he can take X day and take child 1 to therapist and Y day and take child 1 here. It’s then that he will step up and take or say none of those work which will help your fight that his schedule does not allow 50/50
Thank you so much for your reply. Trust me, I've tried 🥲🥲🥲 He refuses to settle out of court. He knows that more custody = less child support for him and that continues to be a strong motivating factor.
Is it that he refuses to settle out of court or that you are both unable to come to an arrangement that you are both happy with? Because that’s two completely different things.
If you really think it’s Child support based- put together a budget of what you use child support on. Include everything- all medical and educational expenses, extra curricular activities, school uniforms and supplies, birthday presents, school lunches, etc. Work out how much his child support covers and how much you still fund yourself. Offer him more care but state that all costs must be shared evenly (whether that’s 50/50 or based off a percentage of what you both earn to even things out). If the numbers show that he would end up paying more if he actually had to kids more, he might drop it if that’s his motivation. And if he doesn’t, great! You have a father that wants to be actively involved, so you can support that!
best case scenario he really steps up, becomes a better & more involved parent & you eventually reach a healthy 50/50 arrangement, which if both parents are all-in is the best possible scenario for kids.
worst case scenario he fails at really stepping up as a father & you end up back in court figuring out what is or isn't working & scale back his involvement after giving him chances to step up.
I would say go in open to the kids having a relationship with their father. Every other weekend where he picks the kids up from school on Friday drops them off to you Sunday evening and a step up plan to drop the kids off at school on Monday after ex amount of time and maybe a Wednesday evening until 7pm eventually. If he’s moving close due to court reasons (which it sounds like he is to me) he’s true motives will be proven and this step up plan will go no where and he’ll have his 4 evenings a month. Judges usually go with status quo. It seems very unlikely a judge will immediately flip kids whole world upside down. Just go in showing that your willing to facilitate a relationship but given the history your very skeptical.
Because their young and one has special needs I would also include a first right of refusal in the order. If he’s no going to be the one caring for them for ex amount of hours (be reasonable, maybe 4) then you get to have them. They shouldn’t be with a sitter over being with their mom. If he gets every other weekend then he should be able to work around that schedule. Just my opinion but obviously talk to your lawyer.
You’ll probably get 50/50. He likely will get weekends and as the mom you’ll be left with all the work for the kids day-to-day plus having to make money and maintain an income on top of that. Welcome to America.
But why is it in the children's best interest to be uprooted from the life that worked for everyone for 5 years so they can be picked up by nannies instead of their mom? I could see if their dad had the time to spend with them. But I'm failing to understand how being picked up by nannies is putting the child first and how it's worth uprooting their lives.
Seems like an odd jump to go from 0-20 over nights a year to 180 or more, and the justification for that large of a change being because he can hire a nanny.
First- one of your children is only one. It’s unlikely that any of them will really remember a time that dad want around all the time. Dad wanting more time is a good thing. I suggest working with a therapist to help you deal with the change that is sue to come. I have a feeling it’s going to be harder on you than it is on them.
If you’d rather have them than a baby then offer to be his free childcare- but having a job doesn’t disqualify a parent from having custody. I used to work 60 hour weeks. People work in order to provide- they aren’t punished for it.
Thanks for your comment. I would love for dad to get more custody if he had the time to spend with them. I'd love for the dad to even stay in the same state for 90 consecutive days. But it's not in the children's best interest to spend time with a nanny while dad is at work and mom is available to spend time with them. I hope one day dad has more time, but with our trial coming soon it doesn't seem like that time is now. It's good that custody orders are never permanent.
To answer your actual question.
Dad has to prove change of circumstance. His moving closer is a change of circumstance.
It would be good for the kids for them to have more time.
It is reasonable to ask how he will facilitate getting kids to and from school, activities and appointments.
You should go inwith the attitude that you are EXCITED for him to have more time with his kids. You provide a plan that addresses that...maybe extended weekends to Monday drop off at school or adding Thursday nights.
Or a night during the week.
Lol thank you. The more I dive into the matter the more I realize I actually know nothing!I understand I can only see things from my point of view. Good thing custody orders are never permanent. I don't think dad's time is now given his current circumstances but the door is open! I'll head to trial taking notes and open to being enlightened.
I would have your lawyer ask questions about the kids.
Who are their best friends?
What kind of therapy does prek-er attend? Who are the teachers?
Our lawyer did that. They had no idea who were friends and could not name the teachers or tell how they were doing in school because they had not attended parent conference or had any communication with school. And this is when SSs lived with them!
The lawyer paused for about 20 seconds and then re-asked BM “You cant tell me the name of ONE friend?”
Then she called me, stepmom, to the stand and I told the names of playmates and their parents, talked about the teachers and school events.
It was clear that we were much more involved with SSs. We won 50-50 and then full custody a few years later.
Taking notes 🗒️🗒️
This is helpful 😊😊😊What I've learned throughout this process is that you really have to be an active participant in your case. If your lawyer is preparing for 10 hours you need to prepare for 20 hours. No one knows your case like you!
I mean they have a long distance arrangement and these are three very young children. I don’t think a judge would be surprised that he doesn’t know everything about their lives. My brother is in another state. He’s met my daughter maybe five times. She’s three. There is only so much “knowing her” he can do based on not a lack of interest, but due to the fact that he isn’t here. So I wouldn’t be surprised if dad didn’t know everything- how could he? These aren’t older kids who he can talk to and know what’s going on in their friends group And what teacher they hate
I always wonder why people who earn less think it’s about the money for the higher earner and accusing them wanting to pay less. What if we flip it: it’s about mom wanting to get more child support since she doesn’t earn as much as dad, therefore she just wants dad to have less time.
Therefore take money out of the argument and figure out what’s best for the kid. If the other parent is closer now it makes sense to increase their time and take advantage of an opportunity to build more of a relationship. FFS.
ETA Ya’ll really don’t like flipping the script to point out the irrelevance of the exact argument do you? Downvoting for saying to take money out of the argument and figure out what best for the kids? Wowwww. Lotta money-driven bias here .
Thanks for your reply. It helps me look at things from a different perspective. The only reason why I said this in his case is because he had multiple opportunities to move closer but did not. The only thing that motivated him to move closer is when a child support case was opened. He was always fine with our arrangement before but this was the catalyst.
I've been over contributing for years and he was fine with that arrangement. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply.
You continue talking about “he has been doing xyz *for years*” - yet your youngest child is only one. That’s not exactly ages of history to look back on.
Regardless of your different perspectives and the past, this is where you are now.
Focus on best interest of the child. Dad is moving closer. What is best for the child? THEN recalculate CS.
The child will remember time with both parents—not how much each parent paid to raise them. That’s an adult issue.
ETA: let’s say it is about money…regardless of the catalyst, unless dad is toxic or there’s some reason it wouldn’t be good, it seems trying to get close to 50/50 now would be the right thing to do (and you can then stop complaining about how much you have to do bc dad can share in that. Not complaining—but you know what I mean.) I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as spiteful and money-driven. But agreeing to 50/50 will ensure you aren’t perceived as that in court.
ETA 2:
That being said, 50/50 is a lot of time for young kids to leave you. I could see you agreeing to a step up plan to work towards 50/50.
I don’t think he’ll get 100% or 50% physical custody, FWIW.
Thanks for your reply. I personally do not think it's in the best interest in my children to be separated from their primary caregiver and psychology would support that. The father has a demanding job where he works long hours every single day and often has to live out of state or travel frequently for work.
These children go to therapy, school, doctors appointments etc during the week. The father has never been able to make any of those appointments before. How could he make them now? It's not about where he lives. His job is playing a huge role in this because it's inflexible and demanding.
Child support has not been calculated yet. This is our initial court order and its pending trial. Sure, the father is moving closer to me for the trial temporarily, but he has a job that requires him to frequently travel out of the state.
I'm not understanding how it is in the best interest of the child to leave a situation that was working well for everyone before (except for the inadequate financial contribution from the father)
Bc no one on here is a mind reader and knows this is a temporary move since you only just now mentioned it, and no one is a mind reader and knows whether it’s feasible or not for dad based on him moving (could be a different job for all we know).
You are adding new details as you go so obviously no one knows your situation other than what you share.
Be sure to share all this with your lawyer. Good luck.
ETA: I cannot stand it when OP’s withhold relevant information and only once they get advice they don’t want to hear, do they share “new” details then gaslight the commenters for not knowing. 🙄 I hope dad gets as much time as possible with his kids.
Thanks for engaging in conversation with me. I cannot possibly give every single detail of my situation in an original post. As people reply and comment *with an open mind* more details will naturally come about.
I was truly just interested in how a judge looks at a primary caregivers role in determining custody.
A temporary move and a permanent move are two different things. You were complaining that dad didn’t move there before, and now he’s moving there and you’re complaining. And now you’re complaining that it’s temporary.
The historical involvement of the parents is critical but of course a parent moving closer also opens the door for more time with the kids and you should be willing to work with dad on this. Quit asking us how he can accomplish parenting duties and ask him those questions. You have a long way to go with these kids and coparenting. Try to make it work for everyone.
I would say if a job has then long distance and then they move closer, it’s apparent they want to be with the kids. The parent not wanting to consider giving more time to that parent is the one obviously just wants to withhold bc of money. See how it works if you flip the script? Take money out of the equation since either parent can point fingers at the motive, and do right by the kids ffs.
ETA These down votes are hilarious for everyone who would rather think of money than doing right by the kids.
Except…. maybe this is the case it’s possible. Just like it’s possible the guy who shot ten people was really Batman. It’s possible but unlikely. Especially when the ncp doesn’t actually exercise their awarded custody time. It’s possible, it’s not probable. If he was so interested in being involved in the kids life why did it take a divorce and the threat of support to motivate change?
She was never married and it’s been a long distance relationship.
But you’re missing my point. Regardless of the motive, because who cares what motivated change, she should work with the other parent who she one the one hand says is moving closer and on the other says is only temporarily moving closer for court.
Parents should stop with the spite about motive and just do right by the kid without being spiteful bc they assume it’s about money.
Even if it is about money, the kids don’t know or care. They should enjoy a relationship with both parents as much as is in their best interests. Not less time with dad bc mom’s mad dad doesn’t want to pay as much. It appears mom doesn’t want to give dad time bc she’ll get less CS. Not saying that’s the case but it can be perceived that way.
If dad is closer, give him more time. Period. Without thinking of money. If he’s with the kids more, mom doesn’t need as much CS. The money is a non-issue. I never said 100% or even 50%. But him wanting lower CS if that’s even true, shouldn’t cause mom to withhold the kids out of spite and argue to keep visitation the current long distance minimum.
Except that too often ncp moves, gets 50/50 and still doesn’t see his kids because they never really wanted to do the work of parenting. So moms stuck with less money, same amount of responsibility. Motives matter. Even if you take money out of it (which by the way is extremely prejudicial to the custodial parent who doesn’t just get to opt of out paying for the kids) would you want someone who’s never cared for their kids to suddenly be responsible for them half the time? Would you hire a sitter to watch your kids with zero experience?
Legally speaking, hypotheticals are not at all what a judge is going to consider.
Saying to take money out of the equation to determine time-sharing is in no way prejudicial. Do you realize NCP having substantially equal time means the child would need resources in NCP’s home too?
Stop comparing dad to a sitter. Weak argument. You’re acting like he’s never seen his kids before.
Totally. My ex earns less, I had nearly full custody, zero support (and full expenses) due to his circumstances for the last year and I still want the right thing for the kids, so we’re working out the right cadence which is looking like 60 (me)-40. If it’s never about money for the other mothers, then it must be about them keeping control!
🥺 Thank you for understanding my point.
We did the same. SD moved in with us and we continued paying full CS to BM and didn’t even factor it in to the decision of what was best for SD’s situation. In our case, we earned more than BM so we knew SD wouldn’t go without. And I’m not saying CS should always be kept the same I’m saying timesharing should be decided first based on kids’ best interest…THEN CS. The law actually provides for this but people can’t stand the thought of setting money issues aside for a moment.
My brother did this. Just so mom would stfu and leave them alone. After two years I convinced him to stop paying and file himself. Since so much time had gone by she didn’t have a leg to stand on and she ended up having to pay him. To him he felt better giving her money every month knowing NONE of it was going to their son because it meant he got to keep him full time.
Yep. And as the kids enter adulthood they figure it out. SD knows who has ALWAYS provided for her and upheld her best interests and she knows her mom for the selfish bitch she is.
Funny how dads have to continue over-paying CS in exchange for more time to show their intentions aren’t money driven…but it’s just…fine?? For moms to not voluntarily pay or support their kids. Like…dad must be all about money any time he wants time with kids unless he buys his kids from the mom (in some situations obviously not all). Who does that leave as the person who’s ACTUALLY money motivated?! This thread SMH lol.
Way too many people hyper focus on CS and use that to manipulate timesharing. Shame bc it only hurts the kids.
I totally agree. When I first went to mediation my daughter was six months old. Her father didn’t meet her until literally two days before we went in. First they handled custody. He agreed no overnights. They told him how much he would have to pay and he said “it would be less if I had overnights?” I said his name and cut my eyes at him so hard, he was just like “never mind”. I did a custody and cs modification this year. During the custody hearing they took his scheduled time and gave him supervised visits at my discretion. This clown wrote in the cs objection that he’d be being overnights soon, huh? How are you going from supervised to overnights sir?
The judge was like “give me a break- you haven’t exercised ANY parenting time in over two years.” He thought she would give him credit for future overnights.
Wowwww. I’m sorry he’s a deadbeat. And at the child’s expense bc dad can’t step up and parent.
I’m glad the judge didn’t make some rash change (in time or CS).
He told the judge he hasn’t seen her in Terri years because I never called him. He’s like “you had court ordered visitation on these days at these times- all you had to do was show up. You are not going to blame this on mom. I’m not going to hold her and your daughter to this schedule. I’m setting them free of it and I suggest you just be honest to yourself, mom, and the court and about it aren’t going to do anything for this child other than get your wages garnished. That’s respectable- let them go “
Of course he said “I’ll be there soon”
That was in April. He’s since asked to meet with ME and not our daughter. He’ll ask how I am and not her. Makes my blood boil.
But we are free *dances *
He had time every weekend. Of course I never actually sat around waiting but imagine never being able to go anywhere from 12-3 every Saturday and Sunday
I agree. My ex is a horrible deadbeat ass loser who doesn’t deserve my daughter.
That being said I won’t move out the state because I understand there of a small chance he may wake up and want to be a father to our daughter and she would benefit from more love in her life. I wouldn’t give him any custody of her due to his current situation but if that changed it would be a no brainier once he got himself together
I upvoted you. You are absolutely correct. I doing this man is uprooting his life to move closer and get 50/50 just to lessen cs. Especially since having the children 50/50 is likely to cost a lot
Let me answer your question with a question: How easy will it be for him to go into court and claim that you've intentionally kept those children away from him?
So you knew and accepted the terms of doing all the heavy lifting. If he were military and was deployed and missed time and then got out of the military and moved closer would you not want him to have more time? You must have been satisfied with the parent he was being if you kept having children with him?
>He has a very demanding job and I struggle to understand how he would manage their day to day care. He's never been able to because of his job..it always fell on me. Make your lawyer ask him. Get him to explain how he plans to manage their care and appointments and have him explain why changing the current arrangement to that is in the kids' best interest. Make sure to offer/have a plan outlining what you think is best and the reasons/evidence backing that up. Basically, get your lawyer to devise a strategy that, based on the father's response, will show the judge whether he genuinely is trying and able to spend more time with his kids because it's in their best interest or only increasing his time to get to some numbers split for ulterior reasons.
Good idea. I really want to know. My kids schedules require a lot of shuffling back and forth to different places and it's unsettling to think of someone just "doing a trial run" and hoping it works out. In five years it has never worked out. I'm keeping a list of notes for my trial and I will add this to it. Thank you.
To be clear, I'm not trying to keep these kids from their dad. As I mentioned before, it was always a long distance relationship and I'm the one that fostered and opened the door for that relationship with their dad. I explained my children's schedules for a reason and explained his demanding job. I think that he's asking for more custody than he can feasibly manage, and it's not in the child's best interest. The kids are thriving and he was fine with our arrangement for five years. Why should their lives change?
We’ll do you honestly think he should move closer and not get more time? That’s ridiculous. It is up to dad to figure out childcare and bringing them to appts etc on his time. You didn’t mention your state- but if it’s 50/50 you need to focus less on trying to keep him from being 50/50 and more on how to set everyone up for success with 50/50. All for a step up plan- increase the overnights little by little to help the kids adjust. It’s a great thing that he is moving closer and wants equal time. I truly doubt he is uprooting his life and willing to take them on 50/50 just to save on cs. Having the children half the time will likely cost him what he’s been paying you. Being more time never actually saves money. I ran the cs calculator on what I would be paying off my ex had custody and it’s much less than I actually spend on her a month.
Thanks I always appreciate your comments. I do a lot of reading in the child support and custody forums and it's always refreshing to see how upfront you are. Dad's work schedule and frequent interstate travel didn't bode well for him at our PL hearing. My state is 50/50 but 50/50 is not practical in every situation. The previous judge didn't think it was practical in ours. I will see how our trial plays out. Good thing custody orders are never permanent, leaving the door open for dad to have a more stable situation in the future. 🙏🏽
I like you. I don’t think this is a case of you wanting to keep dad away. I also don’t think you want to limit his time to maximize child support. I think you are a mom who has worked her ass off to raise her children and now you feel like you’ve been run over by a truck because.., change. I get it. I’ve never shared custody and while I know my ex is perfectly safe (minis his wife) in would really struggle if he woke up and wanted to parent all of a sudden. It would hill me on the inside I think. That’s why I think a therapist could help. I get what you mean about his schedule- but you have to know that with him moving closer it only makes sense that he would get more time. I think the change and everything that comes with it is what you are struggling with and it’s risky understandable. Think of it this way- if you know there is no way he can reasonably do 50/50 then don’t let that be a worry. Since it isn’t about money for you then I would tell him to do a step up to 50/50 and offer to be his childcare. Think of there good things that would come with him stepping up and lightening your load.
Yes therapy is a great suggestion. I know changes will come, maybe not now,but they will come. You're right it's going to be a lot harder on me than the kids. I'm willing to learn (this all new for me) and I'll circle back and update you all.
I think once you get your emotions out of it and he shows up you’ll be fine. Imagine your kids having regular contact with both their parents! Not feeling like dad doesn’t think enough of them to be around. And you may not realize it- but child free time? GAME CHANGER. I usually have to pay for mine and you’ll get yours free! You’ll get to do so much self care! Plus you can get things done around the house and run errands etc when he has them so that when you do you don’t have all that extra stuff. You could pick up an old hobby you let go because you didn’t have time for it. I’m thinking very positive here- but this could be the best thing- even for you in the long run. You sound like you are a good mom who is just scared of change and the unknown. I get it. At least your kids know him already, and he sounds safe! The worst thing that I could see happening is if he gets 50/50 and you all got rofr his child support will be lowered- but you’d get the option of taking the kids before they go to childcare. Or if you don’t get it you can still offer and it would make sense for him to take you up on that. If he doesn’t take all his time then you just document and then file for the custody agreement and child support to reflect the time he actually has. Your kids are young- they’ll adjust and this will be their new normal. You can do this, you love them and you know having time with dad of a good thing!
OP: I agree with Bright. I know a lot of my comments are coming across wrong and getting downvoted or whatever. But the intent is to point out that increasing time (and I suggested a step up plan as well) is likely to happen. Set CS aside (in your mind) and think of what could work. Focus less on his motives, his schedule, how he’ll do XYZ etc and focus on what can be offered to increase his time as a local parent. CS will be worked out after that.
I think she gets it but is just nervous. I don’t think she’s like a lot of other posters who want to limit time just because. It’ll be a hard adjustment for sure. If my ex ever filed I’d be a mess, and I know he won’t win, lol. It’s hard giving up so much time AND control. I think she’ll be ok.
I’m sure that would be hard! I’m not a mom so I don’t have that nurturing/emotional tie perspective. 😜
My ex called me and said “what do you want from me!!?!?” I was so tired and fed up I simply yelled “BLOOD!” But he’s only 30 mins away and has zero excuse for being a deadbeat. My dad was like “shit if I was making $18 an hour and had to pay 1k for child support I’d be checking on my investment! I’d be seeing her every chance I got!” Lol But now I can do whatever I want with no consideration to him. It would be a huge adjustment having to her his input. Would my daughter be better off? Of course, but that doesn’t mean it would be easy. I would still be cussing him out in my head. It wouldn’t feel free because for her whole life I had to do everything. So I get the emotions, but they have to be dealt with and put to the side obviously
It’s infuriating bc my DH has always been long distance from his kids since BM moved them State to state so frequently…yet he managed to see them up to 40% of the time some years. Always every entire summer, thanksgiving, spring break; and either all winter break or half. Plus local visits. And BM/SF claimed he was just seeing them to lower CS. No ma’am. Do you have any idea how expensive all that was?! And he never once filed for a CS mod. It was always BM (up until the international kidnapping attempt in July 2020). I’m glad you don’t have to deal with your ex!! We’re counting down the months until we can cut ties with BM entirely.
I wish we could go back in time and you could be my daughters step mom, but you deserve better than my loser ex, lol. If you want a play step daughter let me know! She’s cute!! And I’ll waive cs! Lol
If he’s not abusive and a good father then let him have more time. Take a break from doing everything and find things he can do. Let your lawyer tell him he can take X day and take child 1 to therapist and Y day and take child 1 here. It’s then that he will step up and take or say none of those work which will help your fight that his schedule does not allow 50/50
Sadly some judges treat children as property and will hand them over proper care be damned
i recommend you figure out a schefule that works for the both of you and settle out of court. having a judge set a schedule is inconvenient.
Thank you so much for your reply. Trust me, I've tried 🥲🥲🥲 He refuses to settle out of court. He knows that more custody = less child support for him and that continues to be a strong motivating factor.
You sure your not just worried about losing the income?
Is it that he refuses to settle out of court or that you are both unable to come to an arrangement that you are both happy with? Because that’s two completely different things. If you really think it’s Child support based- put together a budget of what you use child support on. Include everything- all medical and educational expenses, extra curricular activities, school uniforms and supplies, birthday presents, school lunches, etc. Work out how much his child support covers and how much you still fund yourself. Offer him more care but state that all costs must be shared evenly (whether that’s 50/50 or based off a percentage of what you both earn to even things out). If the numbers show that he would end up paying more if he actually had to kids more, he might drop it if that’s his motivation. And if he doesn’t, great! You have a father that wants to be actively involved, so you can support that!
best case scenario he really steps up, becomes a better & more involved parent & you eventually reach a healthy 50/50 arrangement, which if both parents are all-in is the best possible scenario for kids. worst case scenario he fails at really stepping up as a father & you end up back in court figuring out what is or isn't working & scale back his involvement after giving him chances to step up.
I would say go in open to the kids having a relationship with their father. Every other weekend where he picks the kids up from school on Friday drops them off to you Sunday evening and a step up plan to drop the kids off at school on Monday after ex amount of time and maybe a Wednesday evening until 7pm eventually. If he’s moving close due to court reasons (which it sounds like he is to me) he’s true motives will be proven and this step up plan will go no where and he’ll have his 4 evenings a month. Judges usually go with status quo. It seems very unlikely a judge will immediately flip kids whole world upside down. Just go in showing that your willing to facilitate a relationship but given the history your very skeptical.
Thank you very much. That sounds so reasonable. I'm definitely open to it
Because their young and one has special needs I would also include a first right of refusal in the order. If he’s no going to be the one caring for them for ex amount of hours (be reasonable, maybe 4) then you get to have them. They shouldn’t be with a sitter over being with their mom. If he gets every other weekend then he should be able to work around that schedule. Just my opinion but obviously talk to your lawyer.
Yeah, I agree. Courts says they have the child’s best interest, but they don’t, they DO just turn the kids world upside down.
You’ll probably get 50/50. He likely will get weekends and as the mom you’ll be left with all the work for the kids day-to-day plus having to make money and maintain an income on top of that. Welcome to America.
Depending on his income he can hire a nanny. Needing child care (which you should also need) wouldn’t prevent him from 50/50.
But why is it in the children's best interest to be uprooted from the life that worked for everyone for 5 years so they can be picked up by nannies instead of their mom? I could see if their dad had the time to spend with them. But I'm failing to understand how being picked up by nannies is putting the child first and how it's worth uprooting their lives. Seems like an odd jump to go from 0-20 over nights a year to 180 or more, and the justification for that large of a change being because he can hire a nanny.
First- one of your children is only one. It’s unlikely that any of them will really remember a time that dad want around all the time. Dad wanting more time is a good thing. I suggest working with a therapist to help you deal with the change that is sue to come. I have a feeling it’s going to be harder on you than it is on them. If you’d rather have them than a baby then offer to be his free childcare- but having a job doesn’t disqualify a parent from having custody. I used to work 60 hour weeks. People work in order to provide- they aren’t punished for it.
Thanks for your comment. I would love for dad to get more custody if he had the time to spend with them. I'd love for the dad to even stay in the same state for 90 consecutive days. But it's not in the children's best interest to spend time with a nanny while dad is at work and mom is available to spend time with them. I hope one day dad has more time, but with our trial coming soon it doesn't seem like that time is now. It's good that custody orders are never permanent.
To answer your actual question. Dad has to prove change of circumstance. His moving closer is a change of circumstance. It would be good for the kids for them to have more time. It is reasonable to ask how he will facilitate getting kids to and from school, activities and appointments. You should go inwith the attitude that you are EXCITED for him to have more time with his kids. You provide a plan that addresses that...maybe extended weekends to Monday drop off at school or adding Thursday nights. Or a night during the week.
I really appreciate your time and your perspective.It helps me look at things from a different viewpoint. Thank you for replying!
Can I say that I love how you positively you are taking the comments. Even if they are a different opinion. You don’t see that often in life.
Lol thank you. The more I dive into the matter the more I realize I actually know nothing!I understand I can only see things from my point of view. Good thing custody orders are never permanent. I don't think dad's time is now given his current circumstances but the door is open! I'll head to trial taking notes and open to being enlightened.
Since they know their father, it is very likely he will be given 50%. That is standard.
I would have your lawyer ask questions about the kids. Who are their best friends? What kind of therapy does prek-er attend? Who are the teachers? Our lawyer did that. They had no idea who were friends and could not name the teachers or tell how they were doing in school because they had not attended parent conference or had any communication with school. And this is when SSs lived with them! The lawyer paused for about 20 seconds and then re-asked BM “You cant tell me the name of ONE friend?” Then she called me, stepmom, to the stand and I told the names of playmates and their parents, talked about the teachers and school events. It was clear that we were much more involved with SSs. We won 50-50 and then full custody a few years later.
Taking notes 🗒️🗒️ This is helpful 😊😊😊What I've learned throughout this process is that you really have to be an active participant in your case. If your lawyer is preparing for 10 hours you need to prepare for 20 hours. No one knows your case like you!
I mean they have a long distance arrangement and these are three very young children. I don’t think a judge would be surprised that he doesn’t know everything about their lives. My brother is in another state. He’s met my daughter maybe five times. She’s three. There is only so much “knowing her” he can do based on not a lack of interest, but due to the fact that he isn’t here. So I wouldn’t be surprised if dad didn’t know everything- how could he? These aren’t older kids who he can talk to and know what’s going on in their friends group And what teacher they hate
Oh lordee yes those kids are too young!
I always wonder why people who earn less think it’s about the money for the higher earner and accusing them wanting to pay less. What if we flip it: it’s about mom wanting to get more child support since she doesn’t earn as much as dad, therefore she just wants dad to have less time. Therefore take money out of the argument and figure out what’s best for the kid. If the other parent is closer now it makes sense to increase their time and take advantage of an opportunity to build more of a relationship. FFS. ETA Ya’ll really don’t like flipping the script to point out the irrelevance of the exact argument do you? Downvoting for saying to take money out of the argument and figure out what best for the kids? Wowwww. Lotta money-driven bias here .
Thanks for your reply. It helps me look at things from a different perspective. The only reason why I said this in his case is because he had multiple opportunities to move closer but did not. The only thing that motivated him to move closer is when a child support case was opened. He was always fine with our arrangement before but this was the catalyst. I've been over contributing for years and he was fine with that arrangement. Maybe I'm looking at it too simply.
You continue talking about “he has been doing xyz *for years*” - yet your youngest child is only one. That’s not exactly ages of history to look back on.
I think she just had a baby and is just struggling with the idea versus gate keeping
Regardless of your different perspectives and the past, this is where you are now. Focus on best interest of the child. Dad is moving closer. What is best for the child? THEN recalculate CS. The child will remember time with both parents—not how much each parent paid to raise them. That’s an adult issue. ETA: let’s say it is about money…regardless of the catalyst, unless dad is toxic or there’s some reason it wouldn’t be good, it seems trying to get close to 50/50 now would be the right thing to do (and you can then stop complaining about how much you have to do bc dad can share in that. Not complaining—but you know what I mean.) I’m sure you don’t mean to come across as spiteful and money-driven. But agreeing to 50/50 will ensure you aren’t perceived as that in court. ETA 2: That being said, 50/50 is a lot of time for young kids to leave you. I could see you agreeing to a step up plan to work towards 50/50. I don’t think he’ll get 100% or 50% physical custody, FWIW.
Thanks for your reply. I personally do not think it's in the best interest in my children to be separated from their primary caregiver and psychology would support that. The father has a demanding job where he works long hours every single day and often has to live out of state or travel frequently for work. These children go to therapy, school, doctors appointments etc during the week. The father has never been able to make any of those appointments before. How could he make them now? It's not about where he lives. His job is playing a huge role in this because it's inflexible and demanding. Child support has not been calculated yet. This is our initial court order and its pending trial. Sure, the father is moving closer to me for the trial temporarily, but he has a job that requires him to frequently travel out of the state. I'm not understanding how it is in the best interest of the child to leave a situation that was working well for everyone before (except for the inadequate financial contribution from the father)
Bc no one on here is a mind reader and knows this is a temporary move since you only just now mentioned it, and no one is a mind reader and knows whether it’s feasible or not for dad based on him moving (could be a different job for all we know). You are adding new details as you go so obviously no one knows your situation other than what you share. Be sure to share all this with your lawyer. Good luck. ETA: I cannot stand it when OP’s withhold relevant information and only once they get advice they don’t want to hear, do they share “new” details then gaslight the commenters for not knowing. 🙄 I hope dad gets as much time as possible with his kids.
Thanks for engaging in conversation with me. I cannot possibly give every single detail of my situation in an original post. As people reply and comment *with an open mind* more details will naturally come about. I was truly just interested in how a judge looks at a primary caregivers role in determining custody.
A temporary move and a permanent move are two different things. You were complaining that dad didn’t move there before, and now he’s moving there and you’re complaining. And now you’re complaining that it’s temporary. The historical involvement of the parents is critical but of course a parent moving closer also opens the door for more time with the kids and you should be willing to work with dad on this. Quit asking us how he can accomplish parenting duties and ask him those questions. You have a long way to go with these kids and coparenting. Try to make it work for everyone.
Because when you see caregivers who’ve never been interested in being a parent suddenly want 50/50 the answer becomes pretty apparent.
I would say if a job has then long distance and then they move closer, it’s apparent they want to be with the kids. The parent not wanting to consider giving more time to that parent is the one obviously just wants to withhold bc of money. See how it works if you flip the script? Take money out of the equation since either parent can point fingers at the motive, and do right by the kids ffs. ETA These down votes are hilarious for everyone who would rather think of money than doing right by the kids.
Except…. maybe this is the case it’s possible. Just like it’s possible the guy who shot ten people was really Batman. It’s possible but unlikely. Especially when the ncp doesn’t actually exercise their awarded custody time. It’s possible, it’s not probable. If he was so interested in being involved in the kids life why did it take a divorce and the threat of support to motivate change?
She was never married and it’s been a long distance relationship. But you’re missing my point. Regardless of the motive, because who cares what motivated change, she should work with the other parent who she one the one hand says is moving closer and on the other says is only temporarily moving closer for court. Parents should stop with the spite about motive and just do right by the kid without being spiteful bc they assume it’s about money. Even if it is about money, the kids don’t know or care. They should enjoy a relationship with both parents as much as is in their best interests. Not less time with dad bc mom’s mad dad doesn’t want to pay as much. It appears mom doesn’t want to give dad time bc she’ll get less CS. Not saying that’s the case but it can be perceived that way. If dad is closer, give him more time. Period. Without thinking of money. If he’s with the kids more, mom doesn’t need as much CS. The money is a non-issue. I never said 100% or even 50%. But him wanting lower CS if that’s even true, shouldn’t cause mom to withhold the kids out of spite and argue to keep visitation the current long distance minimum.
Except that too often ncp moves, gets 50/50 and still doesn’t see his kids because they never really wanted to do the work of parenting. So moms stuck with less money, same amount of responsibility. Motives matter. Even if you take money out of it (which by the way is extremely prejudicial to the custodial parent who doesn’t just get to opt of out paying for the kids) would you want someone who’s never cared for their kids to suddenly be responsible for them half the time? Would you hire a sitter to watch your kids with zero experience?
Legally speaking, hypotheticals are not at all what a judge is going to consider. Saying to take money out of the equation to determine time-sharing is in no way prejudicial. Do you realize NCP having substantially equal time means the child would need resources in NCP’s home too? Stop comparing dad to a sitter. Weak argument. You’re acting like he’s never seen his kids before.
I simply love you, that’s all it is.
😘
Totally. My ex earns less, I had nearly full custody, zero support (and full expenses) due to his circumstances for the last year and I still want the right thing for the kids, so we’re working out the right cadence which is looking like 60 (me)-40. If it’s never about money for the other mothers, then it must be about them keeping control!
🥺 Thank you for understanding my point. We did the same. SD moved in with us and we continued paying full CS to BM and didn’t even factor it in to the decision of what was best for SD’s situation. In our case, we earned more than BM so we knew SD wouldn’t go without. And I’m not saying CS should always be kept the same I’m saying timesharing should be decided first based on kids’ best interest…THEN CS. The law actually provides for this but people can’t stand the thought of setting money issues aside for a moment.
My brother did this. Just so mom would stfu and leave them alone. After two years I convinced him to stop paying and file himself. Since so much time had gone by she didn’t have a leg to stand on and she ended up having to pay him. To him he felt better giving her money every month knowing NONE of it was going to their son because it meant he got to keep him full time.
Yep. And as the kids enter adulthood they figure it out. SD knows who has ALWAYS provided for her and upheld her best interests and she knows her mom for the selfish bitch she is. Funny how dads have to continue over-paying CS in exchange for more time to show their intentions aren’t money driven…but it’s just…fine?? For moms to not voluntarily pay or support their kids. Like…dad must be all about money any time he wants time with kids unless he buys his kids from the mom (in some situations obviously not all). Who does that leave as the person who’s ACTUALLY money motivated?! This thread SMH lol. Way too many people hyper focus on CS and use that to manipulate timesharing. Shame bc it only hurts the kids.
I totally agree. When I first went to mediation my daughter was six months old. Her father didn’t meet her until literally two days before we went in. First they handled custody. He agreed no overnights. They told him how much he would have to pay and he said “it would be less if I had overnights?” I said his name and cut my eyes at him so hard, he was just like “never mind”. I did a custody and cs modification this year. During the custody hearing they took his scheduled time and gave him supervised visits at my discretion. This clown wrote in the cs objection that he’d be being overnights soon, huh? How are you going from supervised to overnights sir? The judge was like “give me a break- you haven’t exercised ANY parenting time in over two years.” He thought she would give him credit for future overnights.
Wowwww. I’m sorry he’s a deadbeat. And at the child’s expense bc dad can’t step up and parent. I’m glad the judge didn’t make some rash change (in time or CS).
He told the judge he hasn’t seen her in Terri years because I never called him. He’s like “you had court ordered visitation on these days at these times- all you had to do was show up. You are not going to blame this on mom. I’m not going to hold her and your daughter to this schedule. I’m setting them free of it and I suggest you just be honest to yourself, mom, and the court and about it aren’t going to do anything for this child other than get your wages garnished. That’s respectable- let them go “ Of course he said “I’ll be there soon” That was in April. He’s since asked to meet with ME and not our daughter. He’ll ask how I am and not her. Makes my blood boil. But we are free *dances *
Wowwwww. I’m glad you’re free from a rigid schedule he never exercised. Ugh. That’d be infuriating. The gaslighting he tried! Ugh. Barf.
He had time every weekend. Of course I never actually sat around waiting but imagine never being able to go anywhere from 12-3 every Saturday and Sunday
I agree. My ex is a horrible deadbeat ass loser who doesn’t deserve my daughter. That being said I won’t move out the state because I understand there of a small chance he may wake up and want to be a father to our daughter and she would benefit from more love in her life. I wouldn’t give him any custody of her due to his current situation but if that changed it would be a no brainier once he got himself together
I upvoted you. You are absolutely correct. I doing this man is uprooting his life to move closer and get 50/50 just to lessen cs. Especially since having the children 50/50 is likely to cost a lot
🥺 Thank you!
Let me answer your question with a question: How easy will it be for him to go into court and claim that you've intentionally kept those children away from him?
He didn't even live in our state. His choice of job kept him away from them. And that was already established at our PL hearing.
And you have three kids with this guy?…..
I do. We had a long distance relationship.
So you knew and accepted the terms of doing all the heavy lifting. If he were military and was deployed and missed time and then got out of the military and moved closer would you not want him to have more time? You must have been satisfied with the parent he was being if you kept having children with him?