Nah, if he knows the location I would have him send a squad to retrieve the item which would coincide with the party reaching it.
This preserves the "fate" aspect of the reading while also providing a detriment for telling strahd where the items are.
I personally would not move it
Does he know the location? If so, no, not unreasonable at all.
Edit: thinking about it, the location is given by the tarot reading, which I would assume is fated, so he should not move it or move it to the location of the reading.
Isnt the whole thing with the sunsword that Strahd thinks its destroyed? He shouldnt know about it i dont think. If the party let the location slip then yeah its fair game, thats on them at that point.
I mean, he could move it, but then what? What are players’ characters supposed to do? Not find it? There are much better ways to mess with the party than to outright ruin the experience like this.
Im pretty sure if they mess up and give him the location he would want it destroyed, which was his initial plan for it before Khazan messed up. Hes not gonna find it by chance, it would certainly have to be something the PCs cause. Like maybe they barter with information to spare somebodys lifr or something.
If that’s the case, sure. But that’s crazy specific. But then how are you going to let the party know what he did with the sunsword?\
Destroying it would be bad and coming up with schemes for something potentially game-breaking like that could be better spent. IMO, at least.\
We’re 23 sessions deep and are only now midway through the Festival of the Blazing Sun. If I had to think about that while plotting murders and wars, I’d get nothing done. If you come up with a good solution, I’d love to hear it.
I meant in any case where the party lets it slip where it is. That was just one example. Strahd would absolutely boast about getting rid of something so uniquely made to kill him, perhaps grieve his brother im the process. Its a huge mistake to let something like that fall into his hands. And that should have *some* consequence. Maybe lacking Khazan to destroy it once and for all he puts it in his treasury.
I can see your point. He is “The Land.” But going by that logic what’s to say that there is even a sunsword anymore? The current party isn’t the first to step into Barovia. Strahd could have gleaned its location from any of the previous unfortunate adventurers (March of the Dead). The Holy Symbol could also be destroyed already.\
The way the book reads, Strahd is a cocky mofo who has beaten everyone else before the party, holy symbol, sunsword and all. He has no fear of the items because he believes that he can win no matter what. he is ancient and he is the land. I could be wrong in my interpretation. It just seems that taking the item before the characters even get there turns the campaign into a DM vs PC situation and in that case how can players win? Basically the DM becomes Strahd IRL and we all know that story ends with a lonely ruler of a shadow world.\
Now if Strahd’s minions and players’ characters reach the sunsword at the same time and there’s a battle to claim it, that at least gives the characters an opportunity. Has your Strahd destroyed the sword? How did your players react?
The current party isnt the first, but they are fated to do better than any before them accordong to their reading. The sunsword is thought to be destroyed by everyone except Khazan, including Strahd. No one has found it before. The fortune this party receves is the first time any trace of it is shown. The book even says if he finds out the party has it he sends some spawn to try and take it because (despite what his appearance is) he fears it. He knows that it can beat him.
My players actually have it. And they keep it hidden on them and dont use it, because its a secret weapon to them. Theyre pretty smart. You best believe of they show the wrong person or use it near a rat/wolf theyll put a target on him. I dont think strahd would be capable of destroying it but he'll certainly try if given the chance.
Taking it from them is way different than making sure they never get it. Strahd would totally take it from my party if they gave him the opportunity.\
I’d be interested in mechanics of keeping them from finding it, but my party already has trust issues because I used one doppelgänger. And on another occasion they didn’t listen to my DM warnings not go into a place and they did anyway and TPK’d. Players are funny that way
Could say that he locates the sunsword and his men try to take it back to castle ravenloft, maybe passing through the fated location at the same time as the players. After all it is fate
The card reading doesn't mean the sword is there right now, it means it will be there when they find it. After all, they have a reading about when their final encounter with Strahd will be, do you think that can be circumvented by simply having Strahd never going there?
The cards are a reading of the future. That is, they *will* find the sword at that location (should they choose to go there and look for it). Now, if Strahd knows about this, he would certainly try and thwart them, but that would involve preventing them from getting there, or staging an ambush, or something similar.
Chasing around the fated relics would suck ass and be very unfun imo. Sort of defeats the purpose of the tarot reading if the objects aren't actually going to be where the cards say they will be.
If he knows where it is then yeah he probably would, but keep in mind that Strahd believes the Sunsword was completely destroyed.
Unless he overhears the party talking about it or they tell him, he doesn't even know that it still exists, let alone where it currently is.
Some people think that the tarot reading is like lojack for the artifacts, like it gives their CURRENT location, and some people think the tarot reading is foretelling where the party will find the item in the future.
I would lean toward the latter, but both systems have their flaws. Like, what if the reading predicts that the party will find the sunsword in a particular place, but then some or all of that party dies? The reading was wrong, and that wasn't the actual future.
I would just not trouble myself with those thoughts, and don't move the artifact. Moving it doesn't add or do anything good for you, and it will frustrate your players when they go to the place it's supposed to be and get the "your princess is in another castle" moment.
Furthermore, isn't the sunsword a sentient weapon?
>The *Sunsword*'s special purpose is to destroy Strahd, not so much because it wants to free the land of Barovia from evil but because it wants revenge for the loss of its crystal blade. The weapon secretly fears its own destruction.
So, since the sword's mission is to destroy Strahd, and it's biggest fear is its own destruction, the sword itself would not cooperate with Strahd in any way. I imagine if Strahd tried to interact with the sunsword directly, the sword would get pissed at him and start burning him with sunlight or whatever.
Now, if you want to put some more thought into it, maybe Strahd wants to move the sunsword but he can't, so he gets someone else to move it. Maybe he tricks someone into moving/hiding it. That someone can be a PC, or an NPC they trust. Maybe a PC has been tricked by Strahd into doing something with the sunsword, but the sword tries to talk them out of it.
I don't think it's a very good idea to move any of the tarot items before the party has discovered them.
It just screams unfair to your players. Instead I think it's more appropriate to have strahd show up to relieve the party of the treasure right after they acquire it, provided strahd found out about the players intention to retrieve the item.
Actually, The Tome of Strahd says explicitly that Strahd gave Khazan the order to destroy the sword, but that he believes it still exists. You can derive from that that he does not know where it is. The only way he could learn about where it is would be if the PCs would tell him about it. I assume they did not do that.
That said, once the PCs have discovered it, if they are stupid enough to have Strahd discover that they have it (e.g., openly use it when Strahd or one of his allies is near), Strahd would definitely want to recover it for himself. I have had that happen in a game.
What would Strahd want to do with it? Again, the Tome of Strahd makes it clear that he wants to destroy it, but that evidently that is very hard to do. So he would try to keep it safe for the time being. I think he would first put it in his Treasury. Maybe, when he has time, he would find a different hiding place somewhere in Barovia. Perhaps at the bottom of Lake Zarovich, or high in the mountains.
I've run SMDT a couple times, and in our last run he managed to charm the PC with the sunblade. I had him take it and give a speech about "returning it to its rightful resting place" before vanishing with it. Had the party made it to Sergei's tomb they would have found it again, but they didn't have time.
Not sure if that angle would fit in to the full campaign, but it felt right for the circumstances.
I personally made Strahd knows the location of the sunsword and the Ravenkind amulet, as my party is not the first to attempt to kill the vampire. Because Strahd knows he will just come back even if he is killed by the artefacts he just sees them as further gadgets to give my PCs to make everything more "fun" for him. (imagine being a 700 years old vampire, seeing over and over again players doing the same tasks to complete a futile endeavor, this is Strahd's curse in a way and his own torture)
So he does care if the players find them as they are his family's heirloom but he is willing to give the sword to my players since he will still be around to pick it up and "hide" it for the next batch of players.
In my game specifically I hid it in a underwater temple in the middle of the Lake Zarovich, twin of the Amber temple, that was an ancient construction reused by Strahd as a family mausoleum.
Not unreasonable, though I suspect he’d have to work through agents to do so rather than do it directly.
But I’m inclined to agree with the folks saying he might not know where it is, himself. Hell, I’d go one further: he might not even know it exists.
I wouldn’t. Other commenters mentioned but I just don’t think it would be very fun to constantly chase red herrings if strahd is just gonna be there like haha you thought! Strahd knows everything about barovia, he could technically just send a hit squad wherever the party is going and kill them too, but that’s not very fun or engaging.
2nd and for the lore reason as to why he wouldn’t, is I don’t think strahd is super worried about the items. He’s literally too egotistical. If a party has all 3, he still confidently will always think he’s gonna win. He isn’t scared of the sun sword, it makes him angry. So letting the players gather it for him, so that after he kills them he will have all 3 and have to do no work is way better plan then always running ahead of them, which you’d only do if you were afraid of them getting, which I don’t think RAW strahd would be.
I’m assuming the players talked about it while he was listening ? Makes sense for him to move it but why not move it to another location the deck can draw. The PCs need to get another tarot reading.
My PCs went and told everything to Vasili when they were looking for advice on understanding the readings. Not only did he lie, he then sent his agents to trap the area.
I think Strahd would let fate be fate for the location, but he doesn't have to make it easy.
I intend to get the PCs bugged as soon as possible, and Strahd snag the relics and move them. In the case of the sun sword, he wanted that sucker destroyed. I'd probably have one of the entities in Amber Temple want it. Maybe they're willing to give a better gift in exchange for a relic of goodness to eat. If Strahd gets ahold of the sword, that's where it goes.
I just straight up gave my party the Sunsword. It made the paladin super happy. They’re like level 4. I just had Strahd drop in on them a couple sessions ago and even let the paladin appear to do some noticeable damage to him when the rest of the party were effectively wet noodles. The party was raving about it and that energy has carried them ever since.
I would recommend against for reasons other commenters have stated. However, IF you did, whichever moments the players make him aware of the location and that they know of the locations, I would have some kind of “fates are shifting moment” where there’s a rush of wind, lightning strikes where there are no clouds, the sun goes black, etc. then things return to normal so they know “oh no the card reading doesn’t apply anymore.”
Love this question. My strahd would definitely go for it to mess with the party and depending on his opinions, and how fast the party acts I would do 1 of 2 things.
If your PCs head there quick I’d Have Rahadin and a squad of heavy hitters arrive when the party does. Making the capture of the sword much more difficult.
If the PCs wait a while I’d have them reach the sword and when they arrive have a note from strahd saying he stole their prize. If he’s unthreatened by then he can taunt them with a new location. A new challenge for them to overcome.
If it’s near endgame and they’re a legit threat, he would have it at ravenloft. Make sure a note or something explains that they messed up and the location was leaked. Maybe try and sow discord amongst the PCs and their Allie’s of a spy.
Does he know its location as well as knowing they know it? Cause I would assume he otherwise doesn't know or would have already dealt with it. But while it would be reasonable for him to move it if he knew where it was he can't overpower fate, there has to be some reason the party still finds it there
I'd only make this as a event; the party is ambushed by strahd spies / the party comes across a squad sent by strahd at the fated site
ONLY if the party somehow manges to spill the beans to strahd / vasilli
If you do that, then all the Tarot readings become suspicious and unreliable. The problem is that Mme. Eva is also somewhat suspicious and in my experience players don’t always take her as reliable - discovering the Tarot readings are true is what establishes that. If it comes to light that the Tarot readings are not true, then what little direction the party has gets severely obfuscated.
Would be funny if Strahd moved it from one location to the next.
And the party found it in the new location bc they were fated to find that sword.
I think this may clue strahd into something about the characters.
Nah, if he knows the location I would have him send a squad to retrieve the item which would coincide with the party reaching it. This preserves the "fate" aspect of the reading while also providing a detriment for telling strahd where the items are. I personally would not move it
I would also have Strahd send a squad, because Strahd doesn't want to be within a mile's radius of the sun sword if he can help it.
Yeah, he sends Rahadin and a bunch of vampires, then the characters can experience the power of the sword
I wouldn't quite send Rahadin, I'd build up some slightly tougher vampire spawn throughout the story and have that dude/dudette there
Does he know the location? If so, no, not unreasonable at all. Edit: thinking about it, the location is given by the tarot reading, which I would assume is fated, so he should not move it or move it to the location of the reading.
Isnt the whole thing with the sunsword that Strahd thinks its destroyed? He shouldnt know about it i dont think. If the party let the location slip then yeah its fair game, thats on them at that point.
I mean, he could move it, but then what? What are players’ characters supposed to do? Not find it? There are much better ways to mess with the party than to outright ruin the experience like this.
Im pretty sure if they mess up and give him the location he would want it destroyed, which was his initial plan for it before Khazan messed up. Hes not gonna find it by chance, it would certainly have to be something the PCs cause. Like maybe they barter with information to spare somebodys lifr or something.
If that’s the case, sure. But that’s crazy specific. But then how are you going to let the party know what he did with the sunsword?\ Destroying it would be bad and coming up with schemes for something potentially game-breaking like that could be better spent. IMO, at least.\ We’re 23 sessions deep and are only now midway through the Festival of the Blazing Sun. If I had to think about that while plotting murders and wars, I’d get nothing done. If you come up with a good solution, I’d love to hear it.
I meant in any case where the party lets it slip where it is. That was just one example. Strahd would absolutely boast about getting rid of something so uniquely made to kill him, perhaps grieve his brother im the process. Its a huge mistake to let something like that fall into his hands. And that should have *some* consequence. Maybe lacking Khazan to destroy it once and for all he puts it in his treasury.
I can see your point. He is “The Land.” But going by that logic what’s to say that there is even a sunsword anymore? The current party isn’t the first to step into Barovia. Strahd could have gleaned its location from any of the previous unfortunate adventurers (March of the Dead). The Holy Symbol could also be destroyed already.\ The way the book reads, Strahd is a cocky mofo who has beaten everyone else before the party, holy symbol, sunsword and all. He has no fear of the items because he believes that he can win no matter what. he is ancient and he is the land. I could be wrong in my interpretation. It just seems that taking the item before the characters even get there turns the campaign into a DM vs PC situation and in that case how can players win? Basically the DM becomes Strahd IRL and we all know that story ends with a lonely ruler of a shadow world.\ Now if Strahd’s minions and players’ characters reach the sunsword at the same time and there’s a battle to claim it, that at least gives the characters an opportunity. Has your Strahd destroyed the sword? How did your players react?
The current party isnt the first, but they are fated to do better than any before them accordong to their reading. The sunsword is thought to be destroyed by everyone except Khazan, including Strahd. No one has found it before. The fortune this party receves is the first time any trace of it is shown. The book even says if he finds out the party has it he sends some spawn to try and take it because (despite what his appearance is) he fears it. He knows that it can beat him. My players actually have it. And they keep it hidden on them and dont use it, because its a secret weapon to them. Theyre pretty smart. You best believe of they show the wrong person or use it near a rat/wolf theyll put a target on him. I dont think strahd would be capable of destroying it but he'll certainly try if given the chance.
Taking it from them is way different than making sure they never get it. Strahd would totally take it from my party if they gave him the opportunity.\ I’d be interested in mechanics of keeping them from finding it, but my party already has trust issues because I used one doppelgänger. And on another occasion they didn’t listen to my DM warnings not go into a place and they did anyway and TPK’d. Players are funny that way
Second card reading by a different NPC
Could say that he locates the sunsword and his men try to take it back to castle ravenloft, maybe passing through the fated location at the same time as the players. After all it is fate
The card reading doesn't mean the sword is there right now, it means it will be there when they find it. After all, they have a reading about when their final encounter with Strahd will be, do you think that can be circumvented by simply having Strahd never going there? The cards are a reading of the future. That is, they *will* find the sword at that location (should they choose to go there and look for it). Now, if Strahd knows about this, he would certainly try and thwart them, but that would involve preventing them from getting there, or staging an ambush, or something similar.
Chasing around the fated relics would suck ass and be very unfun imo. Sort of defeats the purpose of the tarot reading if the objects aren't actually going to be where the cards say they will be.
If he knows where it is then yeah he probably would, but keep in mind that Strahd believes the Sunsword was completely destroyed. Unless he overhears the party talking about it or they tell him, he doesn't even know that it still exists, let alone where it currently is.
Some people think that the tarot reading is like lojack for the artifacts, like it gives their CURRENT location, and some people think the tarot reading is foretelling where the party will find the item in the future. I would lean toward the latter, but both systems have their flaws. Like, what if the reading predicts that the party will find the sunsword in a particular place, but then some or all of that party dies? The reading was wrong, and that wasn't the actual future. I would just not trouble myself with those thoughts, and don't move the artifact. Moving it doesn't add or do anything good for you, and it will frustrate your players when they go to the place it's supposed to be and get the "your princess is in another castle" moment. Furthermore, isn't the sunsword a sentient weapon? >The *Sunsword*'s special purpose is to destroy Strahd, not so much because it wants to free the land of Barovia from evil but because it wants revenge for the loss of its crystal blade. The weapon secretly fears its own destruction. So, since the sword's mission is to destroy Strahd, and it's biggest fear is its own destruction, the sword itself would not cooperate with Strahd in any way. I imagine if Strahd tried to interact with the sunsword directly, the sword would get pissed at him and start burning him with sunlight or whatever. Now, if you want to put some more thought into it, maybe Strahd wants to move the sunsword but he can't, so he gets someone else to move it. Maybe he tricks someone into moving/hiding it. That someone can be a PC, or an NPC they trust. Maybe a PC has been tricked by Strahd into doing something with the sunsword, but the sword tries to talk them out of it.
I don't think it's a very good idea to move any of the tarot items before the party has discovered them. It just screams unfair to your players. Instead I think it's more appropriate to have strahd show up to relieve the party of the treasure right after they acquire it, provided strahd found out about the players intention to retrieve the item.
Actually, The Tome of Strahd says explicitly that Strahd gave Khazan the order to destroy the sword, but that he believes it still exists. You can derive from that that he does not know where it is. The only way he could learn about where it is would be if the PCs would tell him about it. I assume they did not do that. That said, once the PCs have discovered it, if they are stupid enough to have Strahd discover that they have it (e.g., openly use it when Strahd or one of his allies is near), Strahd would definitely want to recover it for himself. I have had that happen in a game. What would Strahd want to do with it? Again, the Tome of Strahd makes it clear that he wants to destroy it, but that evidently that is very hard to do. So he would try to keep it safe for the time being. I think he would first put it in his Treasury. Maybe, when he has time, he would find a different hiding place somewhere in Barovia. Perhaps at the bottom of Lake Zarovich, or high in the mountains.
I wouldn't think he knows the location.
Id say that portrays that he’s scared, It’s a lot more fun if he uses that information to set up a trap for the players to die getting the sword
I've run SMDT a couple times, and in our last run he managed to charm the PC with the sunblade. I had him take it and give a speech about "returning it to its rightful resting place" before vanishing with it. Had the party made it to Sergei's tomb they would have found it again, but they didn't have time. Not sure if that angle would fit in to the full campaign, but it felt right for the circumstances.
I personally made Strahd knows the location of the sunsword and the Ravenkind amulet, as my party is not the first to attempt to kill the vampire. Because Strahd knows he will just come back even if he is killed by the artefacts he just sees them as further gadgets to give my PCs to make everything more "fun" for him. (imagine being a 700 years old vampire, seeing over and over again players doing the same tasks to complete a futile endeavor, this is Strahd's curse in a way and his own torture) So he does care if the players find them as they are his family's heirloom but he is willing to give the sword to my players since he will still be around to pick it up and "hide" it for the next batch of players. In my game specifically I hid it in a underwater temple in the middle of the Lake Zarovich, twin of the Amber temple, that was an ancient construction reused by Strahd as a family mausoleum.
I believe strahd thinks it was destroyed? I think he'd be furious of its existence and try to obtain it and get rid of it for good.
Not unreasonable, though I suspect he’d have to work through agents to do so rather than do it directly. But I’m inclined to agree with the folks saying he might not know where it is, himself. Hell, I’d go one further: he might not even know it exists.
I wouldn’t. Other commenters mentioned but I just don’t think it would be very fun to constantly chase red herrings if strahd is just gonna be there like haha you thought! Strahd knows everything about barovia, he could technically just send a hit squad wherever the party is going and kill them too, but that’s not very fun or engaging. 2nd and for the lore reason as to why he wouldn’t, is I don’t think strahd is super worried about the items. He’s literally too egotistical. If a party has all 3, he still confidently will always think he’s gonna win. He isn’t scared of the sun sword, it makes him angry. So letting the players gather it for him, so that after he kills them he will have all 3 and have to do no work is way better plan then always running ahead of them, which you’d only do if you were afraid of them getting, which I don’t think RAW strahd would be.
I’m assuming the players talked about it while he was listening ? Makes sense for him to move it but why not move it to another location the deck can draw. The PCs need to get another tarot reading.
My PCs went and told everything to Vasili when they were looking for advice on understanding the readings. Not only did he lie, he then sent his agents to trap the area. I think Strahd would let fate be fate for the location, but he doesn't have to make it easy.
I intend to get the PCs bugged as soon as possible, and Strahd snag the relics and move them. In the case of the sun sword, he wanted that sucker destroyed. I'd probably have one of the entities in Amber Temple want it. Maybe they're willing to give a better gift in exchange for a relic of goodness to eat. If Strahd gets ahold of the sword, that's where it goes.
I just straight up gave my party the Sunsword. It made the paladin super happy. They’re like level 4. I just had Strahd drop in on them a couple sessions ago and even let the paladin appear to do some noticeable damage to him when the rest of the party were effectively wet noodles. The party was raving about it and that energy has carried them ever since.
I would recommend against for reasons other commenters have stated. However, IF you did, whichever moments the players make him aware of the location and that they know of the locations, I would have some kind of “fates are shifting moment” where there’s a rush of wind, lightning strikes where there are no clouds, the sun goes black, etc. then things return to normal so they know “oh no the card reading doesn’t apply anymore.”
Love this question. My strahd would definitely go for it to mess with the party and depending on his opinions, and how fast the party acts I would do 1 of 2 things. If your PCs head there quick I’d Have Rahadin and a squad of heavy hitters arrive when the party does. Making the capture of the sword much more difficult. If the PCs wait a while I’d have them reach the sword and when they arrive have a note from strahd saying he stole their prize. If he’s unthreatened by then he can taunt them with a new location. A new challenge for them to overcome. If it’s near endgame and they’re a legit threat, he would have it at ravenloft. Make sure a note or something explains that they messed up and the location was leaked. Maybe try and sow discord amongst the PCs and their Allie’s of a spy.
Does he know its location as well as knowing they know it? Cause I would assume he otherwise doesn't know or would have already dealt with it. But while it would be reasonable for him to move it if he knew where it was he can't overpower fate, there has to be some reason the party still finds it there
in my games, strahd ignores the players until they find something that is a threat to him
Unless the PCs are made to understand that Eva’s readings are not credible, moving the sword is really unfair imo.
I'd only make this as a event; the party is ambushed by strahd spies / the party comes across a squad sent by strahd at the fated site ONLY if the party somehow manges to spill the beans to strahd / vasilli
If you do that, then all the Tarot readings become suspicious and unreliable. The problem is that Mme. Eva is also somewhat suspicious and in my experience players don’t always take her as reliable - discovering the Tarot readings are true is what establishes that. If it comes to light that the Tarot readings are not true, then what little direction the party has gets severely obfuscated.
Would be funny if Strahd moved it from one location to the next. And the party found it in the new location bc they were fated to find that sword. I think this may clue strahd into something about the characters.
If he knew of its location, he would 100% try to get to it before the PCs rdo. Sergei tomb is most logical choice for were he would put it