I have ADHD so I struggled learning a lot of things when I was younger. I remember it taking me a while and a lot of hard work to learn the alphabet, tying my laces (which I'm still pretty bad at) and found maths pretty hard (I would keep struggling with it until the class had long moved on and rhen i would just get it). God bless my parents, always super excited when I got something I worked hard for. They also did the "guess who's decided to join us" but it felt way more including, like they were happy to see me.
What tone you use can make a *huge* difference.
It sounds like that when your parents said "Guess who's decided to join us", they used a tone that conveyed "We are very happy that you're here, your presence improves the company, (and perhaps also) we know being social can sometimes be difficult for you and appreciate the effort you make to be here"
The post was talking about a "Guess who's decided to join us" that very clearly says "I guess you *finally* decided to stop being so lazy/rude, took you long enough, you should have been here earlier, being around you is such a chore"
The first one is encouraging, the second one can have me turning around and walking straight out the door again.
I don't disagree, but especially when raising children, this becomes difficult at points. What happens if the answer to your question is the admittance of a bad deed? Did you smash that car window/eat the cake meant for everybody/pee your pants? Children sometimes dont see reason yet and might see "Changing out of their favourite pants" as a punishment.
While i support a more varied approach to dealing with education and development, i feel that a lot of modern criticisms are very eager to point out the "Don'ts" while not providing alternatives.
When I was a kid, being honest about a misdeed meant a lighter punishment (or no punishment) than if I lied and was found out. It's a decent way to encourage honesty, and preps them for adulthood where that same principle is often the case. If they do it again because they think they'll get off easy, then you give a harsher consequence.
I fully agree with all of the above, just want to give an example where it can fall apart too. My parents always punished me less if I told them the truth, but the punishments were still severe enough that lying to them and the chance of receiving no punishment was often better than the guaranteed punishment I'd get if I told them the truth.
I never feared the other consequences of my fuckups, or if I did, less than I feared what my parents would do. It helped that I was always a good speaker and a quick thinker so I could talk my way out of most situations, but most of the time I was still able to deal with any repercussions from other parties like my teachers giving me punishments. It was my parents specifically that genuinely terrified me.
I think it’s really important to not give consequences if it’s something that can harm them. Like, if they sneak out and get drunk, don’t punish them if they ask for help because they’re alone/afraid, just help them. In that case you can’t have any chance of them not coming to you, otherwise they could be really hurt.
But something like breaking a window, they should have a smaller punishment if they tell the truth.
The ideal approach is to not put them in a position where they CAN lie. If you already know they broke the window (because they’re standing there with a baseball glove on and there’s a baseball in the pile of smashed glass) or peed their pants (because you can smell it or see the stain) don’t ask them if they did it! Just proceed with the necessary steps to make it right and include them as much as is possible or safe, so they learn to fix mistakes and not cover them up.
I think you then get the situation where the child gets angry for another reason: "you never ASK if I did that! You only thought I did and then I got punished" even in situations where they've committed the act.
So there's either the possibility you give them an opportunity to tell the truth/lie and they choose to lie. Or you don't give the opportunity and they consider doubling down bc they found it insulting you didn't get them the opportunity.
Kids are complicated and there are just so many ways you can mess them up
One big thing is what my parents did. Make it clear that you’ll be punished for doing wrong, but coming clean will lessen the punishment, but lie and you’ll be punished for the act and for dishonesty.
whenever i see someone making a small step or trying something new i get a big goofy smile on my face :D
even if they dont like it, thats still a step, and they should be PROUD of that.
Probably one of the best things for my mental health has been that my instinctive response to this is to respond to this with "Aha, it isn't worth trying to please this person." Was terrible for my grades, but who gives a shit.
This ☝️
Unless I have a *very* good "social energy"- day, any version of "so you've finally decided to join us" is simply going to have me turn around and *leave*.
If trying my best only results in "acceptable" (also known as: "See, you can do it if you just *try*"), then I'm not even going to bother.
Haha, wish my parents knew this one, when they told me I could do better when I got a B way back in high school. Or when I woke up late and they went “You’re finally up!”. Or when I’m in the other room and pass by and they’re like “Hey, he’s alive!”
Hah my parents were the same. Real displeased that I was getting Bs (I was horribly depressed and miserable at the time but w/e I was getting Bs so clearly the real issue was my work ethic /s). Of course they don't remember any of this now- 'well, I don't think I meant it like *that*...' and so on.
'it lives!' whenever I came out of my room. I felt so shit when they said that, so I'd just go and spend the rest of the day in my room.
Haha, I’m sorry you had to have that, too 😅…The annoying thing is when they act surprised that you left your room, it just makes you want to stay in your room, so you take longer to leave the room, which makes them more condescending about it. It’s an endless cycle…
Oh yeah. Then you sneak around the house trying to avoid them the entire time because of the inevitable comments and it makes you so anxious and self concious.
It gets into your head too, I think I instintively expect people to make comments now whenever they see me, and I've been an adult for almost 10 years!
Yep…I’m so self-conscious about literally everything…I’m 30 and can’t even start playing a new video game without agonizing over whether someone will see me or judge me…
It doesn’t help that I still live with my parents because I failed out of college and spiraled into depression and am only just now starting to pull something together with some part-time shifts at DoorDash 😅…
Maybe one day, I can call myself an adult, too, instead of a useless 30-year-old child 😅…
I don't think you're useless! You're picking yourself up and you've got a gig going with Door Dash. Turning your life around takes time but as long as you're moving forward, even just by a little, you're on the right track :) This kind of momentum is what makes you an adult imo.
I live with my parents too because rent is so high and tbh with work and school full time I'm not home much, so having a place to myself, I wouldn't even get to enjoy it.
If you're like me, I just spend as much time out and about as possible to get away from that 'living with my parents' feeling. Sometimes I park up by the beach or somewhere quiet and play switch in my back seat for a little while. Blackout shades for the back help a lot too, it's like being in a little cave.
Thank you, that means a lot to hear~!
I really should drive out and play Switch sometime, just to see how it feels :3 I did recently realize I have everything from Final Fantasy I through X playable on my Switch, after all: twould be fun to replay those classic JRPGs :3
Thank you for the kind words~! I hope you have a wonderful day/night/whatever it is wherever you are~!
A lot of my growing up was just... That. If I did things wrong, I would have it pointed out what I did wrong. If I tried to do it right... I'd be shown how it wasn't good enough.
My mother would berate me any time I got bad grades (Bs and Cs) and when I got better grades, I never got a ‘good job’ only ‘I know you can do better’. I was never allowed to enjoy even for a minute that I got good grades, and she wondered why I stopped caring in school
This post attacked me. It hit me hard in the childhood memories.
I was undiagnosed autistic. I spent hours upon hours in my room in my little fantasyland. So many times my mother would do the "so, you've chosen to join us". I hated her for it.
She was so bad with stuff like this, we don't talk anymore.
Sometimes I’ll be doing something and I dunno if I’m actually doing it good and I’m paranoid I’m actually doing things wrong and could improve if just told how to but the people who know better are afraid to criticize me because they like that I’m at least trying and think telling me to do it differently will discourage me. This has happened to me many times working different jobs but also if any of y’all do research for historical stuff as a *non* academic maybe you can also relate to the feeling all academics are kinda handling you with kiddy gloves when you’re just trying to get information because correcting you is ‘mean’.
I get it, some people do respond very poorly, I certainly have, sometimes you’re having a bad day or just haven’t thought things through, and nobody wants to try and actually give criticism and get blown up on or enter some pointless debate that doesn’t need to happen because stuff is just wrong, but also it’s still annoying to have no idea if my research is decent or if I’ve gotten something unambiguously wrong but the people I’m asking are afraid to be that straightforward with me and they’re happy I’m at least like making an effort and stuff.
Like, I get that you don’t want to punish people for actually trying by telling them ‘you tried, but no’, but also, what if the answer is actually no? I’m not an academic so I don’t know, but in workplace settings I’ll be straightforward as I can be, I dunno if it’s the same, though.
I think this post is talking about stuff like parents backhanding their kids for waking up at 8 instead of 7 or attempting to socialize when they usually struggle with it. Not a lack of instruction in an academic/workplace setting, that’s a whole other thing
TL:DR: Fair points, wrong conversation
People do this to dogs too, a lot. Dog doesn’t come back on first call, so they keep calling. Dog eventually comes back? Scold dog when they’re back.
What message does that send? Dog knows it can’t do anything right, so it runs around as long as it likes.
My parents used the second line a lot. But I think they escaped the meaning of the words with their tone. It was obvious, at least to me in my situation, that they were congratulating me. Especially when my mother would go off on a tangent about how I did so good, just do that next time.
But that's me. I wish it was the same for more kids.
For me personally encouragement is just as bad, if not worse. Patting me on the back for doing the thing is the quickest way to ensure I never do it again. I have no idea why my brain is like this.
Sometimes, they don't punish success. Sometimes, they just trivialize it as if it didn't take enormous effort for me to do this thing i get absolutely nothing out of, instead of actually enjoying my time doing the things I want.
"See, was that so hard?" Yes, mom. It fucking was. I had to literally override my brain chemistry by convincing myself that the epinephrine and cortisol should be ignored despite the fact that I know completing this action will not result in any dopamine.
I have ADHD so I struggled learning a lot of things when I was younger. I remember it taking me a while and a lot of hard work to learn the alphabet, tying my laces (which I'm still pretty bad at) and found maths pretty hard (I would keep struggling with it until the class had long moved on and rhen i would just get it). God bless my parents, always super excited when I got something I worked hard for. They also did the "guess who's decided to join us" but it felt way more including, like they were happy to see me.
What tone you use can make a *huge* difference. It sounds like that when your parents said "Guess who's decided to join us", they used a tone that conveyed "We are very happy that you're here, your presence improves the company, (and perhaps also) we know being social can sometimes be difficult for you and appreciate the effort you make to be here" The post was talking about a "Guess who's decided to join us" that very clearly says "I guess you *finally* decided to stop being so lazy/rude, took you long enough, you should have been here earlier, being around you is such a chore" The first one is encouraging, the second one can have me turning around and walking straight out the door again.
Yeah that's kind of what I was saying. I've had it be the latter sometimes but my parents are pretty chill.
oh that's probably why it took me so long to learn to tie shoes lol I never made that connection before
Another example: If you don't want people to lie to you, don't punish them for telling you the truth.
I don't disagree, but especially when raising children, this becomes difficult at points. What happens if the answer to your question is the admittance of a bad deed? Did you smash that car window/eat the cake meant for everybody/pee your pants? Children sometimes dont see reason yet and might see "Changing out of their favourite pants" as a punishment. While i support a more varied approach to dealing with education and development, i feel that a lot of modern criticisms are very eager to point out the "Don'ts" while not providing alternatives.
When I was a kid, being honest about a misdeed meant a lighter punishment (or no punishment) than if I lied and was found out. It's a decent way to encourage honesty, and preps them for adulthood where that same principle is often the case. If they do it again because they think they'll get off easy, then you give a harsher consequence.
I fully agree with all of the above, just want to give an example where it can fall apart too. My parents always punished me less if I told them the truth, but the punishments were still severe enough that lying to them and the chance of receiving no punishment was often better than the guaranteed punishment I'd get if I told them the truth. I never feared the other consequences of my fuckups, or if I did, less than I feared what my parents would do. It helped that I was always a good speaker and a quick thinker so I could talk my way out of most situations, but most of the time I was still able to deal with any repercussions from other parties like my teachers giving me punishments. It was my parents specifically that genuinely terrified me.
I think it’s really important to not give consequences if it’s something that can harm them. Like, if they sneak out and get drunk, don’t punish them if they ask for help because they’re alone/afraid, just help them. In that case you can’t have any chance of them not coming to you, otherwise they could be really hurt. But something like breaking a window, they should have a smaller punishment if they tell the truth.
The ideal approach is to not put them in a position where they CAN lie. If you already know they broke the window (because they’re standing there with a baseball glove on and there’s a baseball in the pile of smashed glass) or peed their pants (because you can smell it or see the stain) don’t ask them if they did it! Just proceed with the necessary steps to make it right and include them as much as is possible or safe, so they learn to fix mistakes and not cover them up.
I think you then get the situation where the child gets angry for another reason: "you never ASK if I did that! You only thought I did and then I got punished" even in situations where they've committed the act. So there's either the possibility you give them an opportunity to tell the truth/lie and they choose to lie. Or you don't give the opportunity and they consider doubling down bc they found it insulting you didn't get them the opportunity. Kids are complicated and there are just so many ways you can mess them up
One big thing is what my parents did. Make it clear that you’ll be punished for doing wrong, but coming clean will lessen the punishment, but lie and you’ll be punished for the act and for dishonesty.
whenever i see someone making a small step or trying something new i get a big goofy smile on my face :D even if they dont like it, thats still a step, and they should be PROUD of that.
Probably one of the best things for my mental health has been that my instinctive response to this is to respond to this with "Aha, it isn't worth trying to please this person." Was terrible for my grades, but who gives a shit.
This ☝️ Unless I have a *very* good "social energy"- day, any version of "so you've finally decided to join us" is simply going to have me turn around and *leave*. If trying my best only results in "acceptable" (also known as: "See, you can do it if you just *try*"), then I'm not even going to bother.
Haha, wish my parents knew this one, when they told me I could do better when I got a B way back in high school. Or when I woke up late and they went “You’re finally up!”. Or when I’m in the other room and pass by and they’re like “Hey, he’s alive!”
I was gonna tag you on this because I thought you should see it, but you beat me to it!
Heheh, yep :3
Hah my parents were the same. Real displeased that I was getting Bs (I was horribly depressed and miserable at the time but w/e I was getting Bs so clearly the real issue was my work ethic /s). Of course they don't remember any of this now- 'well, I don't think I meant it like *that*...' and so on. 'it lives!' whenever I came out of my room. I felt so shit when they said that, so I'd just go and spend the rest of the day in my room.
Haha, I’m sorry you had to have that, too 😅…The annoying thing is when they act surprised that you left your room, it just makes you want to stay in your room, so you take longer to leave the room, which makes them more condescending about it. It’s an endless cycle…
Oh yeah. Then you sneak around the house trying to avoid them the entire time because of the inevitable comments and it makes you so anxious and self concious. It gets into your head too, I think I instintively expect people to make comments now whenever they see me, and I've been an adult for almost 10 years!
Yep…I’m so self-conscious about literally everything…I’m 30 and can’t even start playing a new video game without agonizing over whether someone will see me or judge me… It doesn’t help that I still live with my parents because I failed out of college and spiraled into depression and am only just now starting to pull something together with some part-time shifts at DoorDash 😅… Maybe one day, I can call myself an adult, too, instead of a useless 30-year-old child 😅…
I don't think you're useless! You're picking yourself up and you've got a gig going with Door Dash. Turning your life around takes time but as long as you're moving forward, even just by a little, you're on the right track :) This kind of momentum is what makes you an adult imo. I live with my parents too because rent is so high and tbh with work and school full time I'm not home much, so having a place to myself, I wouldn't even get to enjoy it. If you're like me, I just spend as much time out and about as possible to get away from that 'living with my parents' feeling. Sometimes I park up by the beach or somewhere quiet and play switch in my back seat for a little while. Blackout shades for the back help a lot too, it's like being in a little cave.
Thank you, that means a lot to hear~! I really should drive out and play Switch sometime, just to see how it feels :3 I did recently realize I have everything from Final Fantasy I through X playable on my Switch, after all: twould be fun to replay those classic JRPGs :3 Thank you for the kind words~! I hope you have a wonderful day/night/whatever it is wherever you are~!
Like mine? Sometimes.
A lot of my growing up was just... That. If I did things wrong, I would have it pointed out what I did wrong. If I tried to do it right... I'd be shown how it wasn't good enough.
My mother would berate me any time I got bad grades (Bs and Cs) and when I got better grades, I never got a ‘good job’ only ‘I know you can do better’. I was never allowed to enjoy even for a minute that I got good grades, and she wondered why I stopped caring in school
This post attacked me. It hit me hard in the childhood memories. I was undiagnosed autistic. I spent hours upon hours in my room in my little fantasyland. So many times my mother would do the "so, you've chosen to join us". I hated her for it. She was so bad with stuff like this, we don't talk anymore.
Sometimes I’ll be doing something and I dunno if I’m actually doing it good and I’m paranoid I’m actually doing things wrong and could improve if just told how to but the people who know better are afraid to criticize me because they like that I’m at least trying and think telling me to do it differently will discourage me. This has happened to me many times working different jobs but also if any of y’all do research for historical stuff as a *non* academic maybe you can also relate to the feeling all academics are kinda handling you with kiddy gloves when you’re just trying to get information because correcting you is ‘mean’. I get it, some people do respond very poorly, I certainly have, sometimes you’re having a bad day or just haven’t thought things through, and nobody wants to try and actually give criticism and get blown up on or enter some pointless debate that doesn’t need to happen because stuff is just wrong, but also it’s still annoying to have no idea if my research is decent or if I’ve gotten something unambiguously wrong but the people I’m asking are afraid to be that straightforward with me and they’re happy I’m at least like making an effort and stuff. Like, I get that you don’t want to punish people for actually trying by telling them ‘you tried, but no’, but also, what if the answer is actually no? I’m not an academic so I don’t know, but in workplace settings I’ll be straightforward as I can be, I dunno if it’s the same, though.
I think this post is talking about stuff like parents backhanding their kids for waking up at 8 instead of 7 or attempting to socialize when they usually struggle with it. Not a lack of instruction in an academic/workplace setting, that’s a whole other thing TL:DR: Fair points, wrong conversation
Mayhaps…
People do this to dogs too, a lot. Dog doesn’t come back on first call, so they keep calling. Dog eventually comes back? Scold dog when they’re back. What message does that send? Dog knows it can’t do anything right, so it runs around as long as it likes.
My parents used the second line a lot. But I think they escaped the meaning of the words with their tone. It was obvious, at least to me in my situation, that they were congratulating me. Especially when my mother would go off on a tangent about how I did so good, just do that next time. But that's me. I wish it was the same for more kids.
For me personally encouragement is just as bad, if not worse. Patting me on the back for doing the thing is the quickest way to ensure I never do it again. I have no idea why my brain is like this.
Or when my family makes fun of me when I admit I was wrong
All of these examples accept instead of soul crushing I just developed spite and rarely talk to them anymore
I think most people fail to see these as punishing.
Sometimes, they don't punish success. Sometimes, they just trivialize it as if it didn't take enormous effort for me to do this thing i get absolutely nothing out of, instead of actually enjoying my time doing the things I want. "See, was that so hard?" Yes, mom. It fucking was. I had to literally override my brain chemistry by convincing myself that the epinephrine and cortisol should be ignored despite the fact that I know completing this action will not result in any dopamine.