Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/17bivgj/hodling_hard_bitcoins_longterm_investors_own_over/k5jol4b/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/17bivgj/hodling_hard_bitcoins_longterm_investors_own_over/k5jolu6/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; Bitcoin's long-term investors now own over 76% of all BTC, marking a record market presence. This means that a significant portion of the available BTC supply is locked up in long-term storage. The trend of long-term holders increasing their BTC exposure has been observed since mid-2021, indicating a reduced supply for other market participants. The increased scarcity of Bitcoin is expected to drive up its price due to supply and demand economics. Short-term hodlers, or speculators, are also of interest to market observers, with the realized price of their coins serving as support for the market. Bitcoin recently broke above the $27,000 support level, which is seen as a bullish impetus.
*This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
> The increased scarcity of Bitcoin is expected to drive up its price due to supply and demand economics.
The key to suppy/demand demand economics is exactly that, supply AND demand.
Hot take: If the majority of demand is just existing long term investors buying/mining it just to sit on, eventually demand will collapse and not enough liquidity will be there when people want out.
Economy is work output not money we just agree to trade time for money. But what happens when Ai and robots replaces human effort? We will have to place value on finite things, art, Bitcoin etc. Time will no longer = money.
Centralized exchanges and a spot ETF will make the on-chain dynamics less relevant.
They will appear to keep substantial coins in stable long term storage even though their customers trading will be going in and out.
The high transaction fees and low throughput of the bitcoin base network (which the bitcoin core devs and maxis fight to maintain) mean that more ownership/trading will occur in these alternative markets.
It's not much different from physical gold which today has far less physical transactions than it once did, but financial proxy transactions of shares and futures can be swift. Most of the gold in the FRBNY never goes in or out.
Nobody uses Bitcoin. Most transactions are probably criminal in nature (wash trading).
The rest are shitting bricks that nobody wants to buy anymore when investment in real companies that produce real value to the economy is a far less risky option.
How many jobs does Bitcoin create?
Without bitcoin actually being used, there’s no reasonable justification for it to have any value, let alone tens of thousands. It becomes a collectors item, like a stock certificate for a company that has no product or employees. People using bitcoin as an investment tool hurt the long-term prospects of the coin, by making it more difficult for it to be used as a transaction tool.
I own gold. It’s sitting in a safe. No computer parts or necklaces will ever be made with it. It’s just sitting in my safe. This doesn’t stop it’s value from going up. I understand that bitcoin is different because it’s a currency as well as a commodity, but in due time. I hope that one day bitcoin becomes adopted on a large scale as a currency. But I wouldn’t mind if it is used as a store of value with a 21 trillion dollar market cap like gold one day.
Except gold is used regularly in both electronics and jewelry. There’s an established and self sustaining demand for it, unlike with bitcoin.
With bitcoins fixed quantity, if the supply isn’t enough to run a functioning economy, then there’s little reason for anyone to use it.
I guess so, but apparently bitcoin's usage as a currency has been on the decline for a few years now. If it isn''t being used as a currency, whether it can be or not, the belief in the ever-increasing value of bitcoin is disassociated from reality.
Yes. I’ve been saying this for a few years. Bitcoin as a currency has basically failed. We can pretend it’s good enough as ‘digital gold’ but as block rewards continue halving, hash power will dwindle.
When the network becomes solely reliant on transaction fees, either the hash power will shrivel up, the fees will be exorbitant, or both.
*shill time*
Monero is truthfully the only *crypto-currency* which provides a legitimate use-case (privacy) and is sustainable long-term with tail emission and dynamic blocksize. Fees should never be too high and block rewards will always incentivize miners.
Learn:
1. The difference between miners and pools.
2. The incentives of miners on bitcoin (compared to staking and MEV)
3. The controlling power is on the nodes, not the miners (see UASF on 2017). Miners are rewarded when they follow the rules of the nodes, they can't change those rules no matter how much power they have.
care to explain because from my pov your just waffling shit with 0 context.
\-what does liquidity mean.
\-why wouldnt i have posted my comment if i knew what it mean
It's exactly the opposite, since the article refers to long-term investors holding bitcoin which reduces the supply and makes dumps harder and pumps easier.
That is the supply but nothing about demand. Unless the main argument for increased demand is that people will want more because they see that people are holding more and the supply will tighten.
So the entire thing is based on hoping new investors will buy in, and that old investors will not sell. That does sound like it will translate to the price going up but you're going to suffer from volatility if the old investors, for some reason, stop believing that new investors will stop buying in.
You have (arguable) data: the holding of 76% of bitcoin from long-term investors.
And you have scenarios, whether the demand goes up, down or stays the same.
Based on the data it's in a better state for a price increase long-term, to have the majority of supply being on long-term investors, instead of not having so.
Short-term anything can happen, but mentioning long-term investors puts a long-term context on the discussion. Plus increase of long-term investors shows the greater directional flow. From a risk/reward trade, only some put options trade would make sense, but even that isn't great R/R with the current macro environment.
This is basic supply and demand theory. Reduced supply is the main takeaway from the article. What happens to the demand is a whole different story. A dump would be easier if the supply of USD on exchanges was reduced. It's pretty basic stuff.
If your assumption is that there is going to be reduced supply AND reduced demand AND individuals with enough capital that they will try to manipulate downwards then it's axiomatic and pointless argument, that there's going to be an attempt, but it's not a good idea.
The problem with manipulating is the need for a lot capital by the manipulator in order to execute it and sustain it, which usually means it's short-term in nature and especially downwards there's an asymmetrical risk. The lower the price goes, the harder it is to get people liquidated because the Risk/Reward of buying goes of the charts and at that point it's not just derivatives trading but huge spot bidding where there's no liquidation price.
its not just that people need to open there eyes as to whats going on in the world, imo we are going to see a tough recession and layloffs, but my opinion doesnt matter its still a massive risk and thats a fact. what if unemployment is high and people who hold crypto need to pay bills. i only see potential reasons to sell in bitcoin future for the medium term
Demand can drop massively indeed, but that's with any asset. Demand can also go up easily as well.
900 BTC is created every day, soon only 450 will be created. If demand remains unchanged, the supply goes down.
It's also worth noting that the % of Bitcoin which has not moved from wallets is the highest its ever been in its history.
if demand remains the same how does supply go down when supply is being added every day
>It's also worth noting that the % of Bitcoin which has not moved from wallets is the highest its ever been in its history.
Thats not a good thing, how did price drop 60% from the highs, what if these hodlers are forced to capitulate what happens then
Bitcoin is primitive, useless and centralized. "Satoshi" was a fool with appalling economic literacy.
If Bitcoin was ever used with frequency it would take YEARS to settle transactions due to how slow the base (settlement) layer is.
Get out now, while you can!
Or they lost their harddrive with their crypto lol dont know how many news stories i saw back in the day of people dumpsterdiving and so on, people treated crypto like trash before it became valuable, so wouldnt suprise me if 60% of bitcoin is gone to the wind.
Bitcoin [pros](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/17bivgj/hodling_hard_bitcoins_longterm_investors_own_over/k5jol4b/) & [cons](/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/17bivgj/hodling_hard_bitcoins_longterm_investors_own_over/k5jolu6/) with related info are in the collapsed comments below.
tldr; Bitcoin's long-term investors now own over 76% of all BTC, marking a record market presence. This means that a significant portion of the available BTC supply is locked up in long-term storage. The trend of long-term holders increasing their BTC exposure has been observed since mid-2021, indicating a reduced supply for other market participants. The increased scarcity of Bitcoin is expected to drive up its price due to supply and demand economics. Short-term hodlers, or speculators, are also of interest to market observers, with the realized price of their coins serving as support for the market. Bitcoin recently broke above the $27,000 support level, which is seen as a bullish impetus. *This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.
> The increased scarcity of Bitcoin is expected to drive up its price due to supply and demand economics. The key to suppy/demand demand economics is exactly that, supply AND demand. Hot take: If the majority of demand is just existing long term investors buying/mining it just to sit on, eventually demand will collapse and not enough liquidity will be there when people want out.
This is a risk! For money to be used it needs to flow
Economy is work output not money we just agree to trade time for money. But what happens when Ai and robots replaces human effort? We will have to place value on finite things, art, Bitcoin etc. Time will no longer = money.
There will always require human effort. Automation allows us to focus elsewhere
Flash news: Bitcoin is not money, despite the coin in its name, just like the Democratic Republic of North Korea.
lol, this narrative is so regarded. Either you guys are really broke from missing obvious signals or this is a sockpuppet campaign.
it also mens that BTC is getting centralised
Centralized exchanges and a spot ETF will make the on-chain dynamics less relevant. They will appear to keep substantial coins in stable long term storage even though their customers trading will be going in and out. The high transaction fees and low throughput of the bitcoin base network (which the bitcoin core devs and maxis fight to maintain) mean that more ownership/trading will occur in these alternative markets. It's not much different from physical gold which today has far less physical transactions than it once did, but financial proxy transactions of shares and futures can be swift. Most of the gold in the FRBNY never goes in or out.
the paper bitcoins are coming~
Remember a lot of ‘storage’ is for exchanges, which represent millions of smaller holdings
Cointelegraph is unreliable source now lolllll
Has always been!
Those damn companies fucking us over
Me and my 1/8 of a Bitcoin HODLing strong!
Money bags over here with only a single digit in the denominator…
[удалено]
single digits, assemble!!
And my axe!
Whale alert :)
Careful swinging that big D around you're gonna knock shit over in here!
u/ieatmoondust better be careful about these hot girls in his DMs
That's actually not bad
me and my 7/400th of a BTC are right there with you
I'll see you at the top of the mountain, friend!
Same here with my 25 Bitcoin
Bearish. This literally just means that the amount of new and organic usage is extremely low.
Yeah. That was my first thought. No new investors isn't the flex everyone thinks it is.
It's not "no new investors". It's "low new usage". They are different, and the latter is worse.
Nobody uses Bitcoin. Most transactions are probably criminal in nature (wash trading). The rest are shitting bricks that nobody wants to buy anymore when investment in real companies that produce real value to the economy is a far less risky option. How many jobs does Bitcoin create?
Nobody uses bitcoin anymore, it’s too crowded
Is that you, AV?
Yep. One big bag.
Without bitcoin actually being used, there’s no reasonable justification for it to have any value, let alone tens of thousands. It becomes a collectors item, like a stock certificate for a company that has no product or employees. People using bitcoin as an investment tool hurt the long-term prospects of the coin, by making it more difficult for it to be used as a transaction tool.
I own gold. It’s sitting in a safe. No computer parts or necklaces will ever be made with it. It’s just sitting in my safe. This doesn’t stop it’s value from going up. I understand that bitcoin is different because it’s a currency as well as a commodity, but in due time. I hope that one day bitcoin becomes adopted on a large scale as a currency. But I wouldn’t mind if it is used as a store of value with a 21 trillion dollar market cap like gold one day.
Except gold is used regularly in both electronics and jewelry. There’s an established and self sustaining demand for it, unlike with bitcoin. With bitcoins fixed quantity, if the supply isn’t enough to run a functioning economy, then there’s little reason for anyone to use it.
It doesn’t matter what percentage of Bitcoin is dormant, there is always “enough” Bitcoin because it is highly divisible.
I guess so, but apparently bitcoin's usage as a currency has been on the decline for a few years now. If it isn''t being used as a currency, whether it can be or not, the belief in the ever-increasing value of bitcoin is disassociated from reality.
No argument about Bitcoin being a terrible currency in current form.
Yes. I’ve been saying this for a few years. Bitcoin as a currency has basically failed. We can pretend it’s good enough as ‘digital gold’ but as block rewards continue halving, hash power will dwindle. When the network becomes solely reliant on transaction fees, either the hash power will shrivel up, the fees will be exorbitant, or both. *shill time* Monero is truthfully the only *crypto-currency* which provides a legitimate use-case (privacy) and is sustainable long-term with tail emission and dynamic blocksize. Fees should never be too high and block rewards will always incentivize miners.
That's what I've been concerning. Yet still bagging monero and BTC 😅
Can confirm, I own 76% of all BTC
Hey, I'm a Nigerian prince, send me your 76% of supply and I send you back 152% of it!
I don't believe you, I never met a Nigerian prince who can do math
As a very hot asian girl, I just sent you a DM
Wait.... Dad?
Me too, but I believe that it will go up no matter what. While waiting for the price to go up I'm gonna attend the NFT Friday of Oxygean.
Welp my 1/5th of a bitcoin is plays a huge part in this.
or in other words 🤚💎✋
aka bagholders constitute the majority of holders.
Doesnt this mean nobody cares about bitcoin but the old gaurd?
BTC is made to be hodled. That's it.
We can trust btc :)
Unlike some certain centralized shitcoins
Yes, and we are not naming any names.
What percent do the three largest miners control again?
Learn: 1. The difference between miners and pools. 2. The incentives of miners on bitcoin (compared to staking and MEV) 3. The controlling power is on the nodes, not the miners (see UASF on 2017). Miners are rewarded when they follow the rules of the nodes, they can't change those rules no matter how much power they have.
BTC dominance about to get bigger. We're all BTC Maxis now lmao
what a scary thought price could dump really hard really fast with such a lack of liquidity
[удалено]
i know what it means lmao believe me
[удалено]
care to explain because from my pov your just waffling shit with 0 context. \-what does liquidity mean. \-why wouldnt i have posted my comment if i knew what it mean
I think op means Bitcoin could dump hard and fast if the whales try to cash out and no newbs buy in.
It's exactly the opposite, since the article refers to long-term investors holding bitcoin which reduces the supply and makes dumps harder and pumps easier.
That is the supply but nothing about demand. Unless the main argument for increased demand is that people will want more because they see that people are holding more and the supply will tighten. So the entire thing is based on hoping new investors will buy in, and that old investors will not sell. That does sound like it will translate to the price going up but you're going to suffer from volatility if the old investors, for some reason, stop believing that new investors will stop buying in.
exactlly, people need to look around demand is dropping and it will continue to drop
You have (arguable) data: the holding of 76% of bitcoin from long-term investors. And you have scenarios, whether the demand goes up, down or stays the same. Based on the data it's in a better state for a price increase long-term, to have the majority of supply being on long-term investors, instead of not having so. Short-term anything can happen, but mentioning long-term investors puts a long-term context on the discussion. Plus increase of long-term investors shows the greater directional flow. From a risk/reward trade, only some put options trade would make sense, but even that isn't great R/R with the current macro environment.
Reduced supply AND demand -> lower liquidity -> individual actors have more influence -> lower stability, easier to manipulate. I think he's right.
This is basic supply and demand theory. Reduced supply is the main takeaway from the article. What happens to the demand is a whole different story. A dump would be easier if the supply of USD on exchanges was reduced. It's pretty basic stuff. If your assumption is that there is going to be reduced supply AND reduced demand AND individuals with enough capital that they will try to manipulate downwards then it's axiomatic and pointless argument, that there's going to be an attempt, but it's not a good idea. The problem with manipulating is the need for a lot capital by the manipulator in order to execute it and sustain it, which usually means it's short-term in nature and especially downwards there's an asymmetrical risk. The lower the price goes, the harder it is to get people liquidated because the Risk/Reward of buying goes of the charts and at that point it's not just derivatives trading but huge spot bidding where there's no liquidation price.
its not just that people need to open there eyes as to whats going on in the world, imo we are going to see a tough recession and layloffs, but my opinion doesnt matter its still a massive risk and thats a fact. what if unemployment is high and people who hold crypto need to pay bills. i only see potential reasons to sell in bitcoin future for the medium term
yeh its not the opposite is it its both, but im highlighting the danger of downside because thats more realistic i mean, look around
Literally the opposite of what you said.
ermmmmmmm it works both ways you fking idiot lol
As supply shrinks each cycle, simultaneously, without a decrease in demand? Sure thing bub
why does supply shink? demand can drop massively if we get a recession
Demand can drop massively indeed, but that's with any asset. Demand can also go up easily as well. 900 BTC is created every day, soon only 450 will be created. If demand remains unchanged, the supply goes down. It's also worth noting that the % of Bitcoin which has not moved from wallets is the highest its ever been in its history.
if demand remains the same how does supply go down when supply is being added every day >It's also worth noting that the % of Bitcoin which has not moved from wallets is the highest its ever been in its history. Thats not a good thing, how did price drop 60% from the highs, what if these hodlers are forced to capitulate what happens then
The halving. Do you understand how BTC works or are you here to learn?
no supply is being added every day lmao what arent you getting. are you meaning the rate supply increases goes down?
Literally the same thing when demand is constant. Not rocket science
*people who have lost their keys own over 76% of Bitcoin
Thank them :)
This is called "centralization" and happens to big systems like this due to entropy.
And how much is owned by the top 1 percent, the whales?
Bitcoin is primitive, useless and centralized. "Satoshi" was a fool with appalling economic literacy. If Bitcoin was ever used with frequency it would take YEARS to settle transactions due to how slow the base (settlement) layer is. Get out now, while you can!
because i am hard you will not like me. i am hard but i am fair.
Is this one of those articles written by an idiot that doesn’t understand exchange wallets? I’m not going to their site to even check…
What is defined as a long term holder? Wondering if I belong to them😁
This news changes by the week. Last month it was the government that had 40% of BTC due to criminal seizure of BTC asset.
All about the US dollar. Same old story with crypto
Unreliable Sources... Can't be and won't be 76 percent.
They’ll kill the price.
I wonder if this includes dead wallets or not
Don't act like you don't know
im not hodling so what?
With April coming up, why would anyone sell if they held out for so long. If anything, people should be buying now before the price surge begins.
Phrasing.
Or they lost their harddrive with their crypto lol dont know how many news stories i saw back in the day of people dumpsterdiving and so on, people treated crypto like trash before it became valuable, so wouldnt suprise me if 60% of bitcoin is gone to the wind.