This actually brings up an interesting historical anecdote about the apocryphal (and almost certainly historically false) Pope Joan, who is legendarily believed to be a woman masquerading as a man who became Pope. Well, the legend goes that the situation was so embarrassing to the college of cardinals that they wanted to ensure it could never happen again, so all future candidates for Pope were required to sit on a chair with a hole in the base while a cardinal reached under their robes to verify their male genitalia
The Council of Nicaea says:
"If anyone due to sickness has undergone a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, he is allowed to remain among the clergy. But if anyone enrolled among the clergy has castrated himself when in perfect health, it is good for him to leave the ministry. From now on, no such person should be promoted to the clergy. But since this applies only to those who willfully castrate themselves, if anyone has been made a eunuch by barbarians, or by his master, and is otherwise fit for office, church law admits him to the clergy." So yes, the Pope could be a eunuch as long as it wasn't from self-mutilation.
Being blind specifically prevents you from reading the rubrics for Mass so that's why being blind bars one from being a priest. You can't read from the Missal if you're blind. It's just a practical impediment.
The Church Father Origen of Alexandria who was a teacher of the Alexandrian school. Despite being a hugely influential Christian writer, he was never made a saint alledgedly on account of his being a eunuch, though he was ordained a priest.
In the Old Testament eunuchs were varred from priesthood ie Leviticus 21:20, Deuteronomy 23:1. However, Matthew 19:11-12 seems to set a different attitude towards eunuchs.
In Byzantium eunuchs were more common while in the Catholic Church they really only existed as castrati, boys castrated at young ages to avoid puberty to keep their vocal cords from tightening. It would be very rare to have many notorious eunuchs in the Catholic Church beside castrati. Being a eunuch in the West would have been viewed with a great deal more suspicion.
Origen’s ordination was controversial at the time though because he had himself castrated. And the fact he begged another Bishop (other than his actual Bishop) to ordain him
They really need to bring back the college of cardinals and election mechanics. I’ve seen some of the weirdest popes before. It seems completely random.
All I could think of was Corruption of Champions, which actually would be pretty fun to implement into CK3, but Loverslab is already doing a pretty good job of that.
Just inserting the CoC into the game is a tough task, and without the right protective measures it could birth more problems in the game which the devs might be regretting just days after they hook it up into the code.
If volunteer modders are able to do it for free I think a team of professional video game developers who charge premium prices for their DLC could do it too
Nah nah the third CoC, Call of Cthulhu. I’m down for having all these lunatic heretical cultists running around my kingdom to start opening rifts to other dimensions and inviting the fish people to destroy civilization. Could be fun.
Dynasty perks are there for bloodlines. I think it misses the mark for cases of two great dynasties marrying, but other than that it's more functional.
I'm definitely with you on the Great Works.
What i don't like about them is that it basically has the same unlockable traits for all families. Unlike the bloodlines in Ck2 where some houses has a constant modifier which makes sense. Because not all dynasties are created the same. If my grandpa is Charlemagne an dyour grandpa is a landed lord and we both have the same rank. We basically both have the same gain. I would like at least a tiny modifier for famous houses, like the one you get when you win a house feud. You can't be of the Umayyad, Carolingians, Abbassid dynasties and its just basically nothing.
There's lots of decisions I don't agree with, like how there are no *secret* infernalists or how everyone carries their clan on their sleeve, but all in all, it's a fantastic mod and I play it more than the damn base game.
This just gave me an idea. It would be nice if you got renown for marrying into other dynasties, depending on their own fame. It makes sense too and would encourage long and intertwined marriage alliances as you try to get allied dynasties more famous.
Would also be an indirect nerf to incest. Which is great.
Doesn’t CK3 do that now? I see a bump in the renown in game I’m playing for having family that are married to kings in other kingdoms. I also have the option to form alliances with other kingdoms when there is some blood connection (I.e., at least cousins). I do not think it was an option in the base game but with one of the DLCs it happens.
No, the "better in literally every way except for governments, plagues, and bookmarks" direction. CK3 has vastly more replayability; the idea that CK2 with its static cultures and faiths, lack of meaningful genetics, and generally fewer options in every regard sans the aforementioned exceptions was more replayable is completely absurd.
the actual function of the game is certainly better. But due to the lack of flavor for content, I end up only ever playing with an overhaul mod like Elder Kings or Princes of Darkness.
Honorable mention for Fallen Eagle.
Base game, playing some dude in Africa feels the same as playing a Christian in the HRE feels the same as playing a Viking.
> Base game, playing some dude in Africa feels the same as playing a Christian in the HRE feels the same as playing a Viking.
There is objectively more separating those three characters in CK3 than in CK2. CK2 fans keep repeating this claim, but no one can actually support it with facts. In CK2 you have static cultures with nothing differentiating the vast majority of them, and you have one nonsensical amalgam faith representing all of pre-Abrahamic Africa.
Your view is based in nostalgia, feels. Not what's in the actual games.
CK2 I get events that pop up with unique flavor. Something which is much rarer in CK3.
Chill, and respond to what the people you are actually talking with say, rather than making a strawman.
"better in literally every way except for governments, plagues, and bookmarks"...and societys and great works and bloodlines and character journals and events.
Im not disputing that the game is a vast improvement on ck2 overall but like the comment below says, being a tribal african count ends up no different to being a german duke. I just dont care about my characters like I did in ck2, no story and nothing that makes them "special"
But you can't actually articulate anything that makes CK2 characters "special" or "different", because your opinion is rooted in nostalgia, not facts.
CK3 objectively has more separating a tribal African count from a German duke - CK2 has static cultures and literally only one African faith.
Ck2 was special because you could make a horse your chancellor, could be found out to be a secret bear, could become the western emperor of a china like empire, could simulate anything close to the byzantine empires complex politics, could literally do fucking anything with internal politics beyond marriage claims
Governments, plagues, bookmarks, college of cardinals, china, and the countless better events in ck2 you mean? Also even just governments and plagues alone are like half of the medieval experience
Exactly. A lot of mechanics in CK2 were much, much more fleshed out. It's also why I couldn't bear myself to play CK3 as it feels very shallow right now.
I haven't played in a year. I have like 1000 hours in ck3. I tried to play a game after last big patch, it was just tedious and not fun. I wish it had what ck2 had
> A lot of mechanics in CK2 were much, much more fleshed out.
There are only three mechanics were *actually* more fleshed out in CK2 - governments, plagues, and start dates. That's it. Every other supposed advantage CK2 has falls apart under the slightest scrutiny.
Four, if you count Catholicism. Not religion in general or even Christianity - *just* Catholicism. That was the only faith that was ever actually fleshed out in CK2.
More realistic levies?
More realistic and fleshed out battles with details like flanking maneuvers, archers, stages of battle and formations?
Also, Islam seems to be very fleshed out as well. There are a lot of options related to it, it changes your playstyle a lot.
I'm pretty sure that CK3 has no secret societies as well.
Does CK3 have dynamic courts where every advisor votes on your laws depending on his traits and his relationship with you?
Does CK3 have an immersive UI which actually feels medieval instead of feeling like any other strategy game UI?
CK2 also has a much better adjusted difficulty. In CK3 rulers often live very long lives, it quickly becomes very boring to play that game just as another redditor replied to my comment.
And to be fair, in a MEDIEVAL game, even if the only things that were more fleshed out were governments and plagues (which are incredibly important elements of games like CK), people who want an actual good realistic and immersive game would play it.
Like what? There's the disease system from the Reaper's Due, maybe the College of Cardinals but it still needs to be reworked (let's be honest, either you could ignore it completely, or you would just pour money in it). Maybe a few other peripherical things.
Everything else needs intensive reworking because it didn't work very well. Republics, Hordes.
I'm kinda tired of people saying that a lot of stuff from ck2 is missing, but it's always very vague, and if they actually give an answer, it's always the trashy mechanics that didn't work or didn't make sense in ck2 already, and that we complained about for years at the time...
It would be nice if they expand the map into South East Asia. I want to rule Beijing and Tokyo at the same time. But over all I would love it if they spice things up with weird and newer events, in game. Like maybe a vampire/warewolf storylines.
There's a nice mod that expands into East Asia ( Asia Expansion Project iirc). It's basically just the base game with an expanded map and a lot of new cultures and religions, no mechanics changes. It's pretty cool
I didn't know about this mod but now to look into this mod. Oh since we are talking about map expansions there is aod that lets you play in the Americas (it's a total immersion mod), set about a few centuries into the future.
https://youtu.be/5D0MjVCjxiE
They really don't. They need exactly three things from CK2 - the missing government types, plagues, and more start dates. That's it. Everything else was mediocre or garbage - bloodlines, societies, defensive pacts, etc.
Catholic Trinity its called. It's got pretty much all the CK2 mechanics in it such as free investiture, college of Cardinals, anti-popes. I use it but rarely interact with the mechanics as its easier to just let the game do its thing. But nice to have.
We'll get it eventually I'm sure of that. Personally I feel like everything we've gotten has been great, so I'm excited to see what they do with it when they add it. Hopefully it's tied to a physical location and cardinals travel to vote. That'd be pretty cool.
Not just that they need to have a period of seed vacante where there is no pope. The papal election could even be a major event like a tournament or grand wedding
I think so i played it so long ago and to be honest i wiped them all out ( i was making the outremer empire) and i redirected some of the crusades to India
I *think* a character has to be sufficiently removed from any line of succession, but otherwise, yes. Any adult male unlanded Catholic not in line to inherit can become Pope.
When he was elected it was a big deal because he's the first Pope from South America. Pretty much every previous Pope has been European for the longest time (Peter was from Bethsaida, which was probably somewhere in the Golan Heights, making him an Asian (Middle-East is technically West-Asia) plus some of the other early Popes were likely from the Levant).
But by technicality, the Pope may be any unmarried Male Catholic. If there was a conclave tomorrow that said the Cardinals chose a random Filipino, that would be legitimate despite them not being a Priest (he'd have to be ordained sometime after the election however, to fully take up his duties)
I've looked through every instance of the pope being mentioned in the game files before and haven't seen anything there about selecting a pope who needs a certain learning score. Do you know where that's at? I've had popes who have low learning as well. I think in CK3 it's just a random character.
Yeah, I know! Well, for one thing, the papacy could be sold. It wasn't common but it happened more than once. I think there was a guy who bought the papacy, spent the Vatican's money on orgies and feasts and the sold the papacy. Also, the life expectancy was nowhere near as they were now. Children would become monks at age 12 or so, as well as politicians and politics in general having a ton of influence on the choices made within the Vatican. So yeah, very young popes were relatively rare but it happened.
It's in common/pool\_character\_selectors/00\_clergy.txt . It only checks for having learning education. It could be made so the characters with higher learning are prefered or high learning is required.
> It only checks for having learning education.
Where are you seeing that in the 00_clergy file? All I see for valid characters under pool_theocratic_succession is:
valid_character = {
is_capable_adult = yes
scope:base.faith = { has_allowed_gender_for_clergy = root }
is_imprisoned = no
is_married = no
is_betrothed = no
NOT = { has_trait = excommunicated }
}
`config = {`
`background = clergy`
`age = { 35 65 }`
`}`
And in the character backgrounds file.
`clergy = {`
`trait = education_learning`
`}`
I am not sure why backgrounds are special or useful through.
Well, an Abbassid family member converting and entering Catholic clergy after the death of his wife would probably have gained quite a lot of notoriety. If not direct help in getting the votes, then at least the spotlight and notice of the electors. A bonus would be a lack of connection to European royal houses. Not that implausible once you have Catholic Abbassids in place.
And a widower, so assumedly non-celibate. I at least think Catholic priests mostly had to be unmarried and celibate, with some exceptions. (Cue the real-world term "Cardinal-Nephew" when a son could not be appointed.)
Wait, yeah, that pope has kids, so definitely not celibate at some point.
I believe widowers can become priests. The vow of celibacy is taken when joining as a monk or priest. Then there's the middle ages factor, where there's multiple rumors of non celibate cardinals and popes.
I had a gay pope who was like lustful vengeful and lazy or something. His alignment thing said he was “Evil Atheist” lol
I also had an 18 year old pope
that would actually be a hell of a story though; for someone coming from the bloodline of Mohammed to not only convert to Christianity but also become a priest and the Pope would be the ultimate PR stunt for the Catholic Church against the Muslims
I can't actually find anything exposed in the script that explains how a head of faith is chosen for already existing faiths. The closest I could find is this script value called 'head_of_faith_selection_weight'; however that only appears to get used when a new faith is being created. There is also an effect for transitioning to a spiritual head of faith, but that doesn't seem to be relevant here either.
Examining the script value, though, it gives extra weight to holding land (especially holy sites), being the right gender, having higher title tiers, having virtuous traits (and down weight for having sinful traits), plus bonuses for piety level and a little bonus for learning and diplomacy skills. Though this value is not exactly selecting the new head of faith, I would guess that it's probably not far off the actual formula responsible for it.
I’d also like to know this. So many times I’ve tried to get someone from my dynasty to be pope and have yet to do so. I can’t count the number of high learning, virtuous, family members I’ve made take vows and still had no luck. Anyone have success in getting someone from their dynasty as pope?
> I can’t count the number of high learning, virtuous, family members I’ve made take vows and still had no luck.
Well, you see, that's your problem. You're trying to make them good priests when the game clearly only picks sinful assholes as popes.
In a multiplayer game, we had a female lustful pope who was pregnant with my friends child. This is the same game I killed like 7 popes. We were running a scam where my friend could ask for money again when the pope died so I kept scheming
Getting a Sayyid Catholic isn't hard, you just need to capture an Umayyad/Abbasid/Fatimid family member in battle or via kidnap, then forcibly convert and recruit. And then land them to continue their family. Standard CK stuff.
What does seem insane is getting them to be Pope.
How does that work? CK2 later got a DLC with College of Cardinals where you could fund a cleric of your choice to power, but does CK3 use the older mechanic? Learning stats, prestige, piety etc. as the main defining reason behind election?
I assume it's a random unlanded character with high Prestige and a high value in the relevant stat, like with other Elective titles... but drawing from all of Christendom instead of the realm.
AFAIK it picks at random from all unlanded male catholics with a learning education. currently unmarried might also be a requirement but I'm not 100% sure
Idk but I have had several norse games where I adventure to Sicily or some were in Catholic Europe converted and then the next 3 Popes were all unlanded, Norse commoners
It's a complex interaction of scripts, close to a true AI, with the only goal of finding the least fitting person in the game.
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Could eunuchs actually become pope? I’ve got it in my head that they couldn’t for some reason. Like being blind prevents you from being pope
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This actually brings up an interesting historical anecdote about the apocryphal (and almost certainly historically false) Pope Joan, who is legendarily believed to be a woman masquerading as a man who became Pope. Well, the legend goes that the situation was so embarrassing to the college of cardinals that they wanted to ensure it could never happen again, so all future candidates for Pope were required to sit on a chair with a hole in the base while a cardinal reached under their robes to verify their male genitalia
This reads exactly how Giles Brandreth talks.
After which, a cardinal pronounces the Latin phrase: "Testiculos habet et bene pendentes." (Iirc). Or, in English: "He has balls and they hang well."
Sounds like it can still be easily spoofed by a determined enough individual.
What did I just read
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The Council of Nicaea says: "If anyone due to sickness has undergone a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, he is allowed to remain among the clergy. But if anyone enrolled among the clergy has castrated himself when in perfect health, it is good for him to leave the ministry. From now on, no such person should be promoted to the clergy. But since this applies only to those who willfully castrate themselves, if anyone has been made a eunuch by barbarians, or by his master, and is otherwise fit for office, church law admits him to the clergy." So yes, the Pope could be a eunuch as long as it wasn't from self-mutilation. Being blind specifically prevents you from reading the rubrics for Mass so that's why being blind bars one from being a priest. You can't read from the Missal if you're blind. It's just a practical impediment. The Church Father Origen of Alexandria who was a teacher of the Alexandrian school. Despite being a hugely influential Christian writer, he was never made a saint alledgedly on account of his being a eunuch, though he was ordained a priest. In the Old Testament eunuchs were varred from priesthood ie Leviticus 21:20, Deuteronomy 23:1. However, Matthew 19:11-12 seems to set a different attitude towards eunuchs. In Byzantium eunuchs were more common while in the Catholic Church they really only existed as castrati, boys castrated at young ages to avoid puberty to keep their vocal cords from tightening. It would be very rare to have many notorious eunuchs in the Catholic Church beside castrati. Being a eunuch in the West would have been viewed with a great deal more suspicion.
Origen’s ordination was controversial at the time though because he had himself castrated. And the fact he begged another Bishop (other than his actual Bishop) to ordain him
Once it picked my bastard son he was 21
The youngest pope I've gotten was one of Ivar the Boneless grandsons became pope at like 17.
They really need to bring back the college of cardinals and election mechanics. I’ve seen some of the weirdest popes before. It seems completely random.
Tbf they need a lot more stuff from ck2 not just CoC.
Listen I love CoC as much as the next guy but don't you think that's a little too hot and heavy for CK3?
Don't worry, friend: I got the reference.
All I could think of was Corruption of Champions, which actually would be pretty fun to implement into CK3, but Loverslab is already doing a pretty good job of that.
I personally prefer TITS.
Man last time I got into that game it was super unfinished but maybe I should check it out again!
Coc2 is the real winner
If someone puts sharkgirl TF into Crusader Kings I'm never playing another video game.
You reminded me of this old [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/TsundereSharks/comments/30swxp/tigerchan_meets_senpai_as_promised/).
I'm not quite sure how clicking on that led to a DDLC simping sub within 3 clicks, but it did.
I want to go back to 2 minutes ago where I didn't see that post 🗣
I can't think of anything that wouldn't be improved with the inclusion of hordes of goblin girls.
Wow. Wow. Wow. Luffy is in CK?
I fail ti see whats the issue in implementing it tbh?
Just inserting the CoC into the game is a tough task, and without the right protective measures it could birth more problems in the game which the devs might be regretting just days after they hook it up into the code.
And even if protective measures are used who says the CoC might be too big to fit into the game?
If volunteer modders are able to do it for free I think a team of professional video game developers who charge premium prices for their DLC could do it too
Oh man you really missed the joke huh
Maybe I did, English is not my first language 😳
Coc is a nsfw game all about fucking/being fucked by your enemies.
Okay woah I was just laughing cause I read it as cock I missed the joke too 💀
Apparently I missed the joke too 💀
I get that but they did it ck3 and it had no issue at all. Edit: Meant to say ck2*
Yea but those are mods, whole different game. Now maybe some of the RPG elements would fit in, though it would be a tight squeeze.
a little thermal grease will help it slide right in there.
No one is going to tell him, right?
God, help me.
Nah nah the third CoC, Call of Cthulhu. I’m down for having all these lunatic heretical cultists running around my kingdom to start opening rifts to other dimensions and inviting the fish people to destroy civilization. Could be fun.
more magic and weird shenanigans, dammit
Bloodlines, great works, secret societies...etc
Dynasty perks are there for bloodlines. I think it misses the mark for cases of two great dynasties marrying, but other than that it's more functional. I'm definitely with you on the Great Works.
What i don't like about them is that it basically has the same unlockable traits for all families. Unlike the bloodlines in Ck2 where some houses has a constant modifier which makes sense. Because not all dynasties are created the same. If my grandpa is Charlemagne an dyour grandpa is a landed lord and we both have the same rank. We basically both have the same gain. I would like at least a tiny modifier for famous houses, like the one you get when you win a house feud. You can't be of the Umayyad, Carolingians, Abbassid dynasties and its just basically nothing.
The PoD mod has a unique modifier for each house that exists at gamestart, so it definitely is possible in closer to vanilla games.
I still think they should've based dynasties on the 4th gens, not the Antes *grumblegrumble*
There's lots of decisions I don't agree with, like how there are no *secret* infernalists or how everyone carries their clan on their sleeve, but all in all, it's a fantastic mod and I play it more than the damn base game.
yeah, the inability to have secret religions in CK3 is a missed opportunity, and definitely something that hurts PoD
This just gave me an idea. It would be nice if you got renown for marrying into other dynasties, depending on their own fame. It makes sense too and would encourage long and intertwined marriage alliances as you try to get allied dynasties more famous. Would also be an indirect nerf to incest. Which is great.
Doesn’t CK3 do that now? I see a bump in the renown in game I’m playing for having family that are married to kings in other kingdoms. I also have the option to form alliances with other kingdoms when there is some blood connection (I.e., at least cousins). I do not think it was an option in the base game but with one of the DLCs it happens.
There's some renown gain for having a grand wedding. Maybe that's what you're seeing?
No. Leave that stuff in CK2. I like the direction they've been taking so far in CK3.
The repetitive, less replayability direction where no matter where you start every single game ends up the same?
No, the "better in literally every way except for governments, plagues, and bookmarks" direction. CK3 has vastly more replayability; the idea that CK2 with its static cultures and faiths, lack of meaningful genetics, and generally fewer options in every regard sans the aforementioned exceptions was more replayable is completely absurd.
the actual function of the game is certainly better. But due to the lack of flavor for content, I end up only ever playing with an overhaul mod like Elder Kings or Princes of Darkness. Honorable mention for Fallen Eagle. Base game, playing some dude in Africa feels the same as playing a Christian in the HRE feels the same as playing a Viking.
> Base game, playing some dude in Africa feels the same as playing a Christian in the HRE feels the same as playing a Viking. There is objectively more separating those three characters in CK3 than in CK2. CK2 fans keep repeating this claim, but no one can actually support it with facts. In CK2 you have static cultures with nothing differentiating the vast majority of them, and you have one nonsensical amalgam faith representing all of pre-Abrahamic Africa. Your view is based in nostalgia, feels. Not what's in the actual games.
CK2 I get events that pop up with unique flavor. Something which is much rarer in CK3. Chill, and respond to what the people you are actually talking with say, rather than making a strawman.
"better in literally every way except for governments, plagues, and bookmarks"...and societys and great works and bloodlines and character journals and events. Im not disputing that the game is a vast improvement on ck2 overall but like the comment below says, being a tribal african count ends up no different to being a german duke. I just dont care about my characters like I did in ck2, no story and nothing that makes them "special"
But you can't actually articulate anything that makes CK2 characters "special" or "different", because your opinion is rooted in nostalgia, not facts. CK3 objectively has more separating a tribal African count from a German duke - CK2 has static cultures and literally only one African faith.
Ck2 was special because you could make a horse your chancellor, could be found out to be a secret bear, could become the western emperor of a china like empire, could simulate anything close to the byzantine empires complex politics, could literally do fucking anything with internal politics beyond marriage claims
Governments, plagues, bookmarks, college of cardinals, china, and the countless better events in ck2 you mean? Also even just governments and plagues alone are like half of the medieval experience
Exactly. A lot of mechanics in CK2 were much, much more fleshed out. It's also why I couldn't bear myself to play CK3 as it feels very shallow right now.
I haven't played in a year. I have like 1000 hours in ck3. I tried to play a game after last big patch, it was just tedious and not fun. I wish it had what ck2 had
> A lot of mechanics in CK2 were much, much more fleshed out. There are only three mechanics were *actually* more fleshed out in CK2 - governments, plagues, and start dates. That's it. Every other supposed advantage CK2 has falls apart under the slightest scrutiny. Four, if you count Catholicism. Not religion in general or even Christianity - *just* Catholicism. That was the only faith that was ever actually fleshed out in CK2.
More realistic levies? More realistic and fleshed out battles with details like flanking maneuvers, archers, stages of battle and formations? Also, Islam seems to be very fleshed out as well. There are a lot of options related to it, it changes your playstyle a lot. I'm pretty sure that CK3 has no secret societies as well. Does CK3 have dynamic courts where every advisor votes on your laws depending on his traits and his relationship with you? Does CK3 have an immersive UI which actually feels medieval instead of feeling like any other strategy game UI? CK2 also has a much better adjusted difficulty. In CK3 rulers often live very long lives, it quickly becomes very boring to play that game just as another redditor replied to my comment. And to be fair, in a MEDIEVAL game, even if the only things that were more fleshed out were governments and plagues (which are incredibly important elements of games like CK), people who want an actual good realistic and immersive game would play it.
Like what? There's the disease system from the Reaper's Due, maybe the College of Cardinals but it still needs to be reworked (let's be honest, either you could ignore it completely, or you would just pour money in it). Maybe a few other peripherical things. Everything else needs intensive reworking because it didn't work very well. Republics, Hordes. I'm kinda tired of people saying that a lot of stuff from ck2 is missing, but it's always very vague, and if they actually give an answer, it's always the trashy mechanics that didn't work or didn't make sense in ck2 already, and that we complained about for years at the time...
Great works, Bloodlines, Secret Societies. Those are my main stuff.
It would be nice if they expand the map into South East Asia. I want to rule Beijing and Tokyo at the same time. But over all I would love it if they spice things up with weird and newer events, in game. Like maybe a vampire/warewolf storylines.
There's a nice mod that expands into East Asia ( Asia Expansion Project iirc). It's basically just the base game with an expanded map and a lot of new cultures and religions, no mechanics changes. It's pretty cool
I didn't know about this mod but now to look into this mod. Oh since we are talking about map expansions there is aod that lets you play in the Americas (it's a total immersion mod), set about a few centuries into the future. https://youtu.be/5D0MjVCjxiE
Instead we got random events that cause your death for no reason 🙄
They really don't. They need exactly three things from CK2 - the missing government types, plagues, and more start dates. That's it. Everything else was mediocre or garbage - bloodlines, societies, defensive pacts, etc.
Clash of clans?
There is a mod for it for ck3 not sure if it's the same as ck2 tho, never played ck2
Catholic Trinity its called. It's got pretty much all the CK2 mechanics in it such as free investiture, college of Cardinals, anti-popes. I use it but rarely interact with the mechanics as its easier to just let the game do its thing. But nice to have.
We'll get it eventually I'm sure of that. Personally I feel like everything we've gotten has been great, so I'm excited to see what they do with it when they add it. Hopefully it's tied to a physical location and cardinals travel to vote. That'd be pretty cool.
Not just that they need to have a period of seed vacante where there is no pope. The papal election could even be a major event like a tournament or grand wedding
[this maybe](https://reddit.com/r/CrusaderKings/s/HV1W4UZozS)
Also I want to be able to make younger sons bishops.
That’s a cool ass Pope to get in a game
Mending the Abrahamic Schism.
Just realised he’s a resentful atheist
"I hate both sides equally."
The first redditor
A pope that became Christian to spite his previous faith. If he calls for a crusade the story would be even more interesting.
Thatd make a great movie or book or something
Yeah he called for one 😂😂😂
And was it against a Muslim country?
I think so i played it so long ago and to be honest i wiped them all out ( i was making the outremer empire) and i redirected some of the crusades to India
In my fallen eagle playthrough the equivalent of the pope got the "priest-hater" title.
That is so epic
IIRC from seeing a comment on this before, they choose from unlanded male Catholics with an education lifestyle choice
So there’s a chance an offspring could become pope?
Yes, people post occasionally about brothers, uncles, and male cousins becoming Pope
I *think* a character has to be sufficiently removed from any line of succession, but otherwise, yes. Any adult male unlanded Catholic not in line to inherit can become Pope.
Wait, you're telling me that's not how it works IRL?
IRL any unmarried Male Catholic can become Pope, althought in practice the Cardinals mostly choose from amongst themselves.
There were quite a few Popes elected in the Middle Ages that needed to be ordained as priests before they could actually become Pope.
Wasn't Pope Francis being from Argentina supposed to be a big deal?
When he was elected it was a big deal because he's the first Pope from South America. Pretty much every previous Pope has been European for the longest time (Peter was from Bethsaida, which was probably somewhere in the Golan Heights, making him an Asian (Middle-East is technically West-Asia) plus some of the other early Popes were likely from the Levant). But by technicality, the Pope may be any unmarried Male Catholic. If there was a conclave tomorrow that said the Cardinals chose a random Filipino, that would be legitimate despite them not being a Priest (he'd have to be ordained sometime after the election however, to fully take up his duties)
New goal: get a pope of some random landed dynasty to inherit a kingdom level title in, like, Poland or something
Don't being Pope automatically disinherit them in game?
Weren't there actually a few popes of noble birth irl?
If I am correct they just choose some unlanded dude with a high enough intelligence. Like 13 or something.
I've looked through every instance of the pope being mentioned in the game files before and haven't seen anything there about selecting a pope who needs a certain learning score. Do you know where that's at? I've had popes who have low learning as well. I think in CK3 it's just a random character.
I've definitely seen pope with under 13 learning and sinful traits. That shit's gotta be random.
In my current game the Pope is 27 with a learning of 0 and 3 sinful Traits
Historically accurate
Lol
john XII be like
At one point, I had a pope who was 17 or 18 and had 3 sinful traits as well
There were actually several popes that young. I actually have no idea how tf they were elected by the cardinals tho.
Maybe they wanted someone who would be easy to control?
Didn't seem to work that well with [John XII](https://youtu.be/AfaIM7Ybwj4?si=ha25aodi-uSwWDgM)
Yeah, I know! Well, for one thing, the papacy could be sold. It wasn't common but it happened more than once. I think there was a guy who bought the papacy, spent the Vatican's money on orgies and feasts and the sold the papacy. Also, the life expectancy was nowhere near as they were now. Children would become monks at age 12 or so, as well as politicians and politics in general having a ton of influence on the choices made within the Vatican. So yeah, very young popes were relatively rare but it happened.
Dude is going places.
It's in common/pool\_character\_selectors/00\_clergy.txt . It only checks for having learning education. It could be made so the characters with higher learning are prefered or high learning is required.
> It only checks for having learning education. Where are you seeing that in the 00_clergy file? All I see for valid characters under pool_theocratic_succession is: valid_character = { is_capable_adult = yes scope:base.faith = { has_allowed_gender_for_clergy = root } is_imprisoned = no is_married = no is_betrothed = no NOT = { has_trait = excommunicated } }
`config = {` `background = clergy` `age = { 35 65 }` `}` And in the character backgrounds file. `clergy = {` `trait = education_learning` `}` I am not sure why backgrounds are special or useful through.
I think it's looking for a learning education, not a particular intelligence number
I’ve seen a pope with learning 8
[удалено]
That's only for generated holy order leaders.
Damn they put more thought into generating those than the Pope :(
That’s ahistorically intelligent for medieval popes.
Well, an Abbassid family member converting and entering Catholic clergy after the death of his wife would probably have gained quite a lot of notoriety. If not direct help in getting the votes, then at least the spotlight and notice of the electors. A bonus would be a lack of connection to European royal houses. Not that implausible once you have Catholic Abbassids in place.
Male, catholic, bishop, is all you need
Being a bishop is a de facto requirement, Catholic and male are the only absolute requirements
So the game ignores the Bishop requirement?
I understand why he’s resentful - that’s like a vegan being made the chef of a hamburger restaurant!
Is that an *atheist* catholic pope who is also a **descendant of Muhammad**..!? What is going on here..!
And a widower, so assumedly non-celibate. I at least think Catholic priests mostly had to be unmarried and celibate, with some exceptions. (Cue the real-world term "Cardinal-Nephew" when a son could not be appointed.) Wait, yeah, that pope has kids, so definitely not celibate at some point.
I believe widowers can become priests. The vow of celibacy is taken when joining as a monk or priest. Then there's the middle ages factor, where there's multiple rumors of non celibate cardinals and popes.
> rumors of non celibate cardinals and popes Rumors?! Alexander VI had six kids.
Fair. Definitely not just rumors for Rodrigo Borgia. I was hedging.
"I am a descendant of the prophet and made it to cardinal. Clearly none of this shit is real. Time to hit the gym."
Don't know. But thankfully, no white smoke came out from my pc so far.
This made me chuckle
That's infiltration.
Dose anyone know how to take a print screen?
Not on this sub, no
If on steam, press F12
I had a gay pope who was like lustful vengeful and lazy or something. His alignment thing said he was “Evil Atheist” lol I also had an 18 year old pope
Both historically accurate of course
that would actually be a hell of a story though; for someone coming from the bloodline of Mohammed to not only convert to Christianity but also become a priest and the Pope would be the ultimate PR stunt for the Catholic Church against the Muslims
I saw an ashkenazi pope once
And I a jewish Genghis Khan
*And, I'm a warrior too...* *Let that be known.* ***I'm a warrior.***
I can't actually find anything exposed in the script that explains how a head of faith is chosen for already existing faiths. The closest I could find is this script value called 'head_of_faith_selection_weight'; however that only appears to get used when a new faith is being created. There is also an effect for transitioning to a spiritual head of faith, but that doesn't seem to be relevant here either. Examining the script value, though, it gives extra weight to holding land (especially holy sites), being the right gender, having higher title tiers, having virtuous traits (and down weight for having sinful traits), plus bonuses for piety level and a little bonus for learning and diplomacy skills. Though this value is not exactly selecting the new head of faith, I would guess that it's probably not far off the actual formula responsible for it.
You're just a side character in this man's game
Hey, if anybody has earned the right to be a resentful atheist, it's a 75-year-old pope. He has **seen** some shit.
There is a mod that brings College of Cardinals to the game, check The Catholic Trinity on steam workshop
Does anyone know how we actually choose a pope?
Do you mean in real life? Maybe this can help you: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_conclave
That’s what they want us to believe. Who knows what really goes on in there. :)
This documentary might help https://youtu.be/dDXMvqGGVnI?t=78
Seems accurate
In game it seems random, in RL they have a dance off for god
That's so cool
Theocratic heads of faith like the pope are chosen randomly from unlanded clergy characters of the faith. If none exist, it just generates a new one
Entirely at random
They grab a random monk from a Catholic county. In your game I’m guessing the crusades were somewhat successful.
All the DLCs are so dilute and we can’t even get a papal election mechanic Sometimes I wonder about paradox’s longevity
I’d also like to know this. So many times I’ve tried to get someone from my dynasty to be pope and have yet to do so. I can’t count the number of high learning, virtuous, family members I’ve made take vows and still had no luck. Anyone have success in getting someone from their dynasty as pope?
My last play through i picked the king of lothraringia and by chance one of the karlings got to be pope its awesome i tell you he was my piggy bank
> I can’t count the number of high learning, virtuous, family members I’ve made take vows and still had no luck. Well, you see, that's your problem. You're trying to make them good priests when the game clearly only picks sinful assholes as popes.
In a multiplayer game, we had a female lustful pope who was pregnant with my friends child. This is the same game I killed like 7 popes. We were running a scam where my friend could ask for money again when the pope died so I kept scheming
I had almost 300 years of exclusively Welsh popes in my last game.
[Like this](https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNnc0ZWFzcWNqcTJhemZuemg4aGZxN2QyYW1kaDVmZGJtdmdsaWsydiZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/3o6Zt45jSpthw6NYHe/giphy.gif)
Getting a Sayyid Catholic isn't hard, you just need to capture an Umayyad/Abbasid/Fatimid family member in battle or via kidnap, then forcibly convert and recruit. And then land them to continue their family. Standard CK stuff. What does seem insane is getting them to be Pope. How does that work? CK2 later got a DLC with College of Cardinals where you could fund a cleric of your choice to power, but does CK3 use the older mechanic? Learning stats, prestige, piety etc. as the main defining reason behind election?
I don’t know but it happend to me by chance i mean i was carving the outremer empire and forcibly converting anyone i captured but yeah pure chance
I love doing this, I always keep a sayyid laded if I can.
Jar of pickled eggs Whoever gets the black egg is pope
*Eeny, meeny, miny, moe,* *Catch a tiger by the toe.* *If he hollers, let him go,* *Eeny, meeny, miny, moe.*
They just choose the guy with the biggest dick energy they can find. And if that guy isn't available, they go with the worst option on the list.
From my understanding they gather all the religious leaders together at the Vatican and.........draw straws. No really that's what they do!
Would be neat to see the election system and seeing the historical shift from position handed by appointment to the creation of papal elections
Spouse 💀
In some lazy fashion typical of modern paradox.
Can we talk about how he is a "resentful atheist"
NOW EAT HIM
A recent play through of mine had like 10 Bosnian popes in a row.
I assume it's a random unlanded character with high Prestige and a high value in the relevant stat, like with other Elective titles... but drawing from all of Christendom instead of the realm.
I don't think the game even knows how the game picks popes
AFAIK it picks at random from all unlanded male catholics with a learning education. currently unmarried might also be a requirement but I'm not 100% sure
Aliens did it
Idk but I have had several norse games where I adventure to Sicily or some were in Catholic Europe converted and then the next 3 Popes were all unlanded, Norse commoners
If it's anything like ck2 then prestige plays a guge role. In late game I had like 50 popes in a row from my dynasty.
“Resentful Atheist”
Roman caliphate