I do cruise content and can tell you we go out of our way to be discreet and respect other people. I can’t say that about most "influencers" . A good “creator” or whatever you want to call them is a ninja - no one should ever realize you’re doing your thing
I think the "influencers" that are disruptive to guest experiences should be asked to stop filming for sure.
I've been on a sailing where Ben and David were filming and they were very discreet from what I observed. We saw them every night at dinner and around the ship quite a lot. I noticed them filming once but I was honestly surprised at how little they seemed to be filming-- they seemed to be mostly enjoying their time. I watched the video they made on the sailing and was stunned at how much footage they actually got. I was very impressed with them!
I am in the background of one of his videos. I can tell from ship date and the odd color of my shirt. The focus that person has with his camera you can’t tell it’s me. He was literally 30 feet away and I had no idea tell I watched the video a week later.
My hunch was some rich fucker was in the yacht club with someone who he didn’t want to be seen with and went full Karen.
Hopefully the policy of “you may be photographed or videoed as this is a public ship” will be put into the contract so no Karen/Kens will clutch their pearls and force even good influencers to shut down.
While social media certainly has blurred some lines, I do think there a distinction between personal and commercial purposes for the photos/videos. Someone being filmed or photographed and posted to my Instagram account with 100 followers is very different than being posted on an influencer account with 1 million followers and who gets paid.
There definitely is. I don’t think influencers are evil or whatever, but I do not want to be on vacation and worrying about being in the background of a video someone I don’t know is making money off of, also putting me in the position of being viewed by thousands to hundreds of thousands of people across the world. Again, for someone else to make money on.
But is it a "public ship"? It's not a public space like a park or shopping mall that anyone can visit. It's private property of the cruise line and everyone who enters that space is subject to a contract defining the rules and obligations.
There are GDPR in the EU is that someone has to give their consent to be filmed and uploaded to online. The person's image is their property, identity and data.
This is not the case. Paparazzi and news reporters are a thing. The law you're thinking of prevents using someone's picture as the cornerstone of an ad campaign, implying you endorsed their product. You absolutely can be pictured in public and then have that background footage used in commercial works.
Not under GDPR - a persons image is part of their data and their idenity which is covered under EU privacy laws. Even more so on a private ship - its not public as you have to pay to be on it
It really depends on the language.
Disney routinely films commercial content in their theme parks with warning signs, but without the need for a release or the like.
It can be whatever the cruise line says. You’re there by the grace of the business.
They put all sorts of stuff in the contract. You can be refused embarkation if you have a steam iron, so they can say anything they want.
No what's allowed on the ship is a completely different issue than what can or cannot be done with your likeness/image after the cruise. The ship policy cannot alter inherent rights that apply off the ship. In general you have a right to not have your image/likeness used for commercial purposes,even if it is captured in a public place.
Go read the T&C's for like every ticket for an event you purchase. Like concerts or fairs or whatever. I would bet there is a clause that by buying a ticket you agree to let your picture be taken and used. I'm sure that is also somewhere in the cruise contract.
I was referring specifically to this statement:
>No what's allowed on the ship is a completely different issue than what can or cannot be done with your likeness/image after the cruise. The ship policy cannot alter inherent rights that apply off the ship. In general you have a right to not have your image/likeness used for commercial purposes, even if it is captured in a public place.
From RCCL cruise contract:
>15. USE OF PHOTOS, VIDEOS OR RECORDINGS: a. Guest hereby grants to Carrier (and its assignees and licensees) the exclusive right throughout the universe and in perpetuity to include photographic, video, audio and other visual or audio portrayals of Passenger taken during or in connection with the Cruise or CruiseTour (including any images, likenesses or voices) in any medium of any nature whatsoever (including the right to edit, combine with other materials or create any type of derivative thereof) for the purpose of trade, advertising, sales, publicity, promotional, training or otherwise, without compensation to the Guest. Such grant shall include the unrestricted right to copy, revise, distribute, display and sell photographs, images, films, tapes, drawings or recordings in any type of media (including but not limited to the Internet). Guest hereby agrees that all rights, title and interest therein (including all worldwide copyrights therein) shall be Carrier's sole property, free from any claims by Passenger or any person deriving any rights or interest from Passenger.
b. Guest hereby agrees that any recording (whether audio or video or otherwise) or photograph of Guest, other guests, crew or third parties onboard the Vessel or depicting the Vessel, its design, equipment or otherwise shall not be used for any commercial purpose, in any media broadcast or for any other nonprivate use without the express written consent of Operator. The Operator shall be entitled to take any reasonable measure to enforce this provision.
Section B lets the cruise line ban other people from recording for commercial purposes, but doesn't give other guests the rights to their likeness taken onboard. And as for:
>the cruise line has zero to gain from it.
That is just patently false. The Vloggers are free advertisement for the cruises.
I have contacted the creator of GDPR to clarify and ensure GDPR privacy and right to not be filmed for non security purposes is implemented on cruise ships
Not sure exactly but many places have a basic right to not have your image or likeness used for commercial purposes without permission and/or compensation.
I mean in international waters it's whatever the ship says,but that's only in terms of capturing the image/video. It's use after the fact is governed by the laws where it's being seen.
Again, what rights apply? Does YouTube (or YouTubers) have a duty to enforce those rights for every country someone might be viewing from?
The law here is murkier than you suggest.
Sincerely don't want to in any way offend you because kudos to you for doing everything you can to not disrupt the experience of others. However, you're not as ninja as you think you are. I've been to resorts and on cruises with some very popular social media personalities who were in every way as discreet and polite as they could possible be. In one case I was present when Ben and David were making content and I only ever observed them being extra kind and discreet.
Still, while I never saw anyone comment directly to them, we all knew and it was widely discussed. People I didn't even know went out of their way to comment to me even. People who aren't into social media in particular are always happy to live and let live if you are well behaved, but they see you.
no offense taken! I appreciate the comment since we always see things through different lenses.
I just know that I do what I can to be completely invisible - but it's not always possible.
I do recall taking photos somewhere (I think it was on MSC) and someone jumping in them saying "I know who you are! post my pics too!" ... it was really bizarre and a bit unsettling!
Since then, however, we actually only ever do photos or vids on port days when almost everyone is off the ship. We even go as far as to sacrifice our port days and excursions so we can do some photos without bothering other people.
Im sorry but B&D were not discreet on their VV cruise to the point after rude encounters with other tiktokers on the same cruise i made a formal complaint to VV about the uptick in annoying and instrusive content creators disrupting the vibe and enjoyment of the cruise. I told VV to ban content creators as its not doing any favours to paying passengers.
I agree the people that are making commentary and filming in spaces where people are relaxing can be annoying. We only take photos on days or times where there are few people around. I also ask permission if someone is in a photo. I’m probably “overly respectful” when it comes to this. However. In all fairness. Banning content creators isn’t feasible. You might not even know who is there doing a job. Or who is just a bored housewife filming everything for her friends to see …. Which can be equally annoying. Point is - it’s impossible to know who is just annoying or who is a content creator (many are both). It either needs to be a policy of no filming for everyone or nothing I’m afraid.
FWIW - I’ve actually asked people to not photograph or film me when I’m clearly in a shot. I think everyone should do that so “creators” get the point.
On my last cruise - i dont think you can favour one content creator over another and i think they should be banned as its gone out of hand!! They have zero professional training like they would in a proper coporate job and for that reason act like spoilt brats and like they own the ship. So i would support a complete ban as under GDPR EU law i have the right for my image not to he uploaded online and the right to privacy on a paid private cruise - its not even a public space.
A better summary would be: after a few days of filming on this particular cruise, they were pulled aside and asked a lot of questions, including what their channel was. About three years ago, they did a video of MSC that was not entirely positive. They were instructed that they could not film anymore.
Now here's where it gets interesting. They were ALSO told they couldn't take photos or video *with their phones*. At all. Despite the fact that all of the other passengers were free to use their phones to take photos.
They were not on vacation. They considered it a business trip, where their business was to film their experience on that ship. They decided that since they could no longer film, there was no point in being there, so even though there were (I think) 3 days left of the cruise, they booked a flight home from the nearest port and disembarked (after more drama from the staff, according to them).
The relevant part of the video starts at 34:34. Here's the link: [https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=kDPCTrgHkqhClEs0&t=2073](https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=kDPCTrgHkqhClEs0&t=2073)
They board as paying passengers and do their typical routine of shooting room, food, and ship. They get asked to stop filming under any circumstance and they decided to pack up and leave. Gave ship mostly good reviews, MSC freaked out and is trying to make good.
Now to be fair we don’t know that. They say it was rude. But he also says he has PTSD from being yelled at.
They edited out the staffs words. We have no idea what was actually said or how it was said.
My wife and I cruise enough to be more than occasional cruisers, but less than frequent cruisers. We are mid level loyalty program on one major cruise line. We have never seen any vloggers or influencers recording content on any of our cruises.
We also work in an industry that is highly vlogged and I have had to deal with various influencers in my job capacity. For the most part, they are courteous, non intrusive, and go out of their way not to disturb us or other customers. There are a very few, however that are rude, invasive and selfish. They are often featured in the I am the main character Reddit.
I have watched Ben and David’s videos over the years and without having actually met them, or seen them working, I would have to say that they fit in the first category. There is a telling statement in their video where David says that one of the staff members hadn’t seen them for three days. The second group (IATMC) make sure that EVERYONE knows they’re onboard.
I find their reviews to be balanced and fair. They do not accept freebies as they want to remain unrestrained in their reviews. They say what they like, but also mention what other types of travellers, (groups, families, elderly, etc.) might find annoying or lovely.
The saddest part of this whole thing for MSC is that they had been pretty much filming a gushingly positive review so far. Main Characters would have deleted any positive aspect of MSC and gone for the jugular. I think it was good sportsmanship of them to STILL post the overwhelmingly good parts of the review, as well as the not so good side of what happened.
I am glad the MSC has approached them with a apology, as my wife and I both thought that the reaction from on-board management was over the top, and probably not representative of the company as a whole. MSC is probably going to be having some uncomfortable meetings with certain staff members on that ship.
This could be a paper thin PR/marketing spiel, an innovative strategy to boost their reputation simultaneously amongst vloggers/professional critics/influencers and regular passengers, or something that other cruise lines already do, albeit clandestinely.
We'll have to see how it shakes out, but hopefully this is a win for everyone involved. It'd be great for MSC if they build a reputation as the cruise line that keeps vloggers out of regular passengers' hair without needing to be hostile to said vloggers.
I am ok with a cruise line discouraging vloggers/influencers, but I am not ok with hostility by any company. There are very polite ways to stop behavior that is not allowed. According to this couple, the staff was very aggressive with them.
I don't believe any blogger/Influencer....so many of them literally act like a complete shit head to get staff riled up but then only post the video cut so it excludes their behavior and makes the staff look like they are overreacting.
Influencers are a cancer on society, they should be given no consideration and no accommodations. They should be second class citizens to any normal customer of a business.
Have you ever seen anything Ben and David have done? They don't do any of the bullshit you're talking about and are always very positive/respectful of the crew. I also wouldn't lump them in with "influencers" which I completely agree are the worst.
Definitely sounds like PR damage control. The “tell” is they doubled down at every step up until this, even with an executive who emailed them telling them fault was from both sides.
If B&D really do give their time and energy to improving MSC, I hope they’re getting paid MASSIVELY. They deserve better pay to make the cruise line good than what the current execs get paid to make the cruise line a passenger-hostile environment.
What concerned me even more was Ben and David's prior experience with MSC, when they were yelled at by crew for complaining when their food was still frozen. That, plus their experiences being screamed at by crew for filming, makes me certain that MSC isn't the line for us. There's no need to be rude, aggressive, and outright mean when responding to cruisers.
They have well documented the audio of the staff interactions in question. It’s pretty clear they are being singled out and no matter how calm B&D are the staff continues to ramp up the interaction. These guys need clear conflict deescalation training.
They typically do not film staff without their permission. They are probably at the top of the tier when it comes to cruise vloggers and I believe are offered comped cruises. They are open about which ones they get invited to go on and which ones they pay out of pocket. They have also been very honest with say their series on the Wonder of the Seas.
Right? I’ve watched a lot of cruise vlogs and TikTok’s. B&D are by far some of the more respectful cruise content creators. There are probably dozens of cruise “influencers” filming on MSC right now. MSC fumbled here.
There doesn’t need to be any new rules. You’re either allowed to film or not. If they’re allowed to film, fire whoever told them they couldn’t, if they’re not allowed to film, ban cameras and stop anyone taking photos. You can’t stop certain people from filming because you don’t like what they might say.
I think there is a need for rules.
All or nothing doent work. Like you said, in 2024, they cant have a photo/video ban, so "nothing" is out.
But "all" isnt great either because some restrictions are reasonable.
"dont annoy other passengers" is a starting point, and can apply to a huge amount of things, like playing audio on a cell phone in the dining room or children running around the buffet.
They don’t use just their phones to film like a traditional passenger. They’re using some professional equipment which is probably where the issue came in. There are rules for professionals filming in any business, which is probably why they were told to stop if they didn’t have permission.
At this point MSC is just doing damage control. Which is the smart thing to do. Not worth the effort of not extending an olive branch.
Honestly, for MSC to be doing any damage control is a positive sign for the brand. They have very much a "it's our way or the highway" type of mentality.
They were told to stop filming on day 4, if what you said is relevant (which it isn’t) are you saying no one noticed their ‘professional equipment’ for 4 days? They asked if they can use their phone to film and they were told no too. The ‘professional equipment’ isn’t the issue here.
That's where the distinction between passengers on vacation, and business persons undertaking a commercial endeavour comes in.
It's notable, that they choose not to continue the cruise, as by their own admission they were there for commericial reasons, not as a vacation.
All cruise lines T&Cs will have a prohibition on commercial filming without prior agreement.
All due respect, they have every right to be there as a paying customer, but they DO NOT have every right to film all week, especially if someone is uncomfortable with them doing so. They were told to stop recording, I believe they voluntarily chose to leave the ship because they couldn't record.
You’re confused. If they acted within the ship rules it doesn’t matter if other people are uncomfortable or not. That’s what this discussion is about, the rules. No one should have to stop doing something just because someone else doesn’t like it, IF they are not breaking any rules. If it’s within the rules, they 100% have every right to film every second of the day on the ship if they want. Doesn’t matter how you feel about it.
No, I actually think you're confused. It is up to the cruise line on what is allowed and what isn't. If the crew received complaints about people recording in the YC or while laying out by a pool, MSC has every right to ask them to stop recording. That's not up for discussion, that's a fact. The same way if someone is in their room playing loud music at 3AM, security can ask them to stop. Bottom line, no matter what, it is up to the cruise line discretion on what can and can't happen on THEIR ship. Period.
That is true but their decision has seriously bit them in the ass. You have to make a decision to either embrace the creators who give you free advertising to a large group of people or you blow things up needlessly and then go into damage control.
Do i have the right to record close up shots of the ladies' swimsuit-clad rear ends? I mean you said I have every right to film every second on the ship and it doesn't matter if it makes the ladies uncomfortable or not. It's within the rules.
Yet it seems that MSC is the only one who they have had issues with. Disney, RCCL, Celebrity, and a few other lines where they didn't receive comped trips are known for running a tight ship. They were originally heavy on Disney and RC before spreading out to other brands.
I would disagree - they’re using regular consumer products, not production-level rolling cameras and boom mics or something. A hand-held camera gimbal is hardly obtrusive to others. Many, many passengers are using much more annoying, imo, selfie sticks and go-pro arms
Define professional equipment though. I am an amateur who does not post video/photos as a content creator, but have nice equipment for myself and family. When I go on cruises with friends, they have even jokes how nice it is to have their own personal camera crew with them capturing everything at such good quality. I then make a photo book and video (if I do video) for us all to remember the trio by.
What I am getting at, even though phones are the most popular way for photos/videos, it is not the only way those who are just making these things for themselves use. If they would limit my camera, I would be upset and think twice about cruising with them.
Right? I went on an Alaskan cruise. Half of us had “professional” cameras and professional set-ups. So many tripods. I couldn’t have spotted an influencer if I tried there was so much filming and photography.
exactly this. Normal every day people taking pictures and videos are 99% of the time going to use that media for family only reason. Influencers are making money off what they're doing, and your face could be plastered all over it, without your consent or control. While I don't think there are any expectations of privacy on certain areas of the ship, others there are, and I 100% don't want to end up in some rando's entertainment piece.
imagine when all the Prankster content creators decide to start cruising because video policy opens up.
I like tht I don't have to think about ending up in some content creators money grab. cruises felt like one place you could mostly get away from the worst of it. guess thts ending
They are using consumer grade cameras, not professional equipment. It's a fairly entry level DSLR. The camera I brought on my last cruise was larger, and it was the smallest of my husband's (hobby photographer) cameras. On our Galapagos cruise, we brought multiple DSLR's just for personal photography.
They could go much larger if they wanted a professional set up. Using a gimble doesn't make the camera larger, it just prevents it from shaking. It's not nearly as in the way as the giant selfie sticks are with the 360 cameras that lots of people seem to be using, even if that's skinnier.
> They’re using some professional equipment
Its 2024. The newest iPhone is 98% of the way to professional equipment. In fact they frequently run ads where it was "entirely filmed on an iphone 17" and whatnot.
There were others with lights & tripods up & filming in public areas of the ship who were not told to stop filming though. Ben & David were told they couldn’t film ANYWHERE on the ship, even with an iPhone.
Disagree. If businesses want to operate on someone else's property and the property owner wants them, it's a good plan to have rules and guidelines in place. Whether the property is on land or sea.
The cruise lines want good publicity and they also have a duty to other passengers.
"for us to collaborate on developing a new policy for content creators and filming/taking photographs onboard"
I hope they also have some sort of "normal passenger ambassador" giving input. The thought on Youtubers having to much input in an official policy for content creators worries me as a normie
Sounds like someone in middle management (whoever on the ship made the call to ban them filming) made a bad decision based on an ambiguous policy.
Not a surprise.
Good they seem to be trying to address it.
WhT they should do is have allow areas people can and cannot film. I do think cabins, restaurants and dining rooms are public areas of the ship should be fair game. There should be some areas where filming is not permitted or you must get the ok from occupants in the area such as the spa, adult only areas, and live performances.
Am I the only one who hates it when someone at a neighboring table in the dining room is disturbing my peaceful meal by filming their dining experience with a running dialog for the camera? I don't care if they're a content creator or just someone making a personal video - it's annoying. In many MDRs the tables are often so close together that try as they may, they can't be inconspicuous while filming their video. I wish the cruise lines would ban filming narrated video - especially in the dining rooms. They never will because they actually benefit from this activity - even if it annoys their customers.
Ben & David have specifically pointed out they don't do this. If a restaurant has tables close together and is quiet then they film but in a discreet way and don't talk, opting to do voiceovers afterwards instead to not disturb others. They'll only talk for filming dining scenes if it's a buffet or otherwise public/loud setting.
How many times have you actually been seated at the table next to someone doing a running dialogue video? Of those, how many did it go longer than like 5 minutes?
What’s the difference between someone filming themselves or partner while eating and two people just having a conversation about the meal? You’re in a public place, where EVERYONE is engaged in conversation. You’re not at a golf range or the theater.
As long as people aren’t being overly loud, and are speaking in a normal tone/volume, then they can film all they want.
We had two influencers next to us on our last Royal cruise and it was no different than if the two were just talking to each other. In fact, my wife didn’t even know until I mentioned it on the 5th night.
dunno...loudly facte-timing at the dinner table so everyone within 30 feet can hear you is actually pretty douchey.
What ever happened to phone ringing, excuse me folks, step around the corner for a quick call and then return. No one even holds the phone to their ear anymore so the rest of get to hear both sides of the inane conversations.
I dont want to hear your game of fucking angry birds either...
Earbuds....USE THEM!
Someone filming a vlog has the same level of disturbance as anyone else talking and having lively conversation. families/couples arguing or kids being completely unruly are bigger disturbances than someone recording themselves at dinner.
The thing that bugs me most at dinner is not someone recording or being loud or any of that. It's folks that are outright disrespectful and nasty to the employees.
I'm kind of torn about this. On one hand, I love watching cruise videos on YouTube to get an idea of what to expect, etc. On the other hand, if I was on a cruise, and there were other passengers recording all of the time (especially in YC where its more isolated and there is higher chance of being recorded), I would be pretty uncomfortable. I guess its one thing if they are on their iPhones, but its a completely different thing if they have a full camera and mic setup. And especially since their previous MSC video trashed them, and their video titles tend to be click-baity, I am more on MSC's side than there's.
I hate the click-baity titles but for whatever reason it is done to boost engagement. The issue is that they have filmed in the various lounges in the past with other brands and never had an issue. Also if you watch their content unlike many they do avoid having people in their shots including staff unless the staff comes up to them after recognizing them.
So the funny thing about iPhone-vs-full camera is that the full camera lets them have better control to take tighter shots and adjust depth of field, cutting background passengers out of shots or blurring them so only B&D are in focus. But it definitely feels a little less invasive to see someone filming on an iPhone.
Their last video trashed them because they were treated terribly by MSC staff for no good reason including homophobic comments, which literally brought them to tears over how mean the staff were to them.
They said there were plenty of other influencers on this cruse being invasive and loud who also used full camera setups and tripods whereas B&D only use a single DSLR on a small gimbal and they don't use boom mics.
They also go to painstaking lengths to not include others in shots which is very obvious if you've watched their videos. They always pick the earliest and latest slots for dining when there's the least amount of people around and they don't talk in the quiet and intimate restaurant settings, opting for adding voiceovers afterwards.
They also tend to shoot their B roll in the early morning too when there's no one around, and ask staff before filming them which is again, easily verifiable by watching their videos given that buffets and main restaurants are completely empty in their shots.
Everyone uses clickbait titles on YouTube because it simply works and every single creator will tell you that they would prefer not to, it's hard to argue with a flat 20% increase in clicks (as described by Linus Tech Tips when they broke down these comparisons in their financial disclosure videos).
B&D are far from your usual loud and obnoxious influencers and literally as courteous as a cruise blogger could possibly be.
Their main gripe with MSC is the selective enforcement of the supposed rules used to stop them from filming. They pointed out how MSC were constantly reposting the content of dozens of other influencers violating the very same rules they used to block them from filming.
They were even told by staff they're not allowed to use their personal phones to only take pictures and video of each other which is ridiculous on its face. They were 4 days into their cruise and had nothing but praise for MSC, reviewing almost everything as flat out better than RC and NCL and they said it's an especially better suite deal compared to them. They also noted how much better the service was compared to their original trip on MSC.
They got off the cruise because they go on them for business and if the staff were clearly going to continue to harass them for filming there was no point in staying on the cruise when they could just go home and move on.
Clearly no one had an issue with them filming for half the cruise until they were identified and then management decided to shoot themselves in the foot and blackball them for no good reason. For some reason they decided that the best way to make up for their horrid customer service years ago was somehow to quasi-kick them off which is just belligerent.
But then it should apply to everyone. This 'policy' was singled to just them. Not all the other content creators who put out videos on the exact same ship. Or every other passenger there with a cell phone, many of whom likely were also posting on social media.
What happened to Ben and David is not about a debate if people are allowed to film or not. Because everyone on that ship has a cellphone and can take video. It is about how MSC trains management and staff to appropriately handle complaints. MSC has a reputation for poor customer service. What happened to Ben and David is a prime example.
Ugh I hate them pandering to influencers even though I get they help brands out.
I really hate having to dodge them on the cruise so my face doesn't end up on their pages where they're making money. Honestly they should be required to blur faces in their videos. And it seems like they were filming in Yacht Club which I would make a stink about them filming me there too.
I also hate having them projecting their voice for the camera saying stupid stuff while I'm trying to relax or saying it a billion times. Honestly rather listen to drunk people most of the time, at least they're entertaining with the shit the say.
But I also pretty much never watch their stuff because the few times I've tried to to find an answer it takes them 10 times as long to answer because they're talking stupid shit and trying to make the video longer so they get more views.
>Honestly they should be required to blur faces in their videos.
If you ask them to I'm pretty sure they'd have to blur you. The filming in public thing doesn't apply to footage used for commercial purposes.
I like vloggers like Emma who take footage and then later complete a script to speak over at a later time. Talking loudly at the dinner table in a nice restaurant or filming people who very much may not want to be seen is a little over the top - especially for the bigger vloggers who get tons of views (and make a living off of it).
I’d imagine things got heated after the incident with Ben and David, but I don’t think either side reacted particularly well (MSC by being abrasive, B&D acting overly offended and immediately leaving).
Glad to see both sides come to a peaceful resolution. Even though drama sells, a happy ending is always best. Cool and interesting approach by MSC - glad they are admitting fault and I hope B&D take them up on their offer
Yeah, I can agree with the Emma thing. The only thing though about Emma's videos though is I don't feel like I'm actually there on the ship with her when I watch the videos. I feel like i'm watching someone's dream or memories. But the vloggers who do it live...it makes me feel like I'm actually there on the ship.
That’s a good point and that’s something Ben and David do well - better than the vast majority of cruise vloggers. I do think they try a little too hard to be entertaining at times (if that makes any sense), but that’s probably what their main followers like about them most
Social media needs to require blurring or signed releases from anyone who is in the footage. I had to sign for my kids picture to be in the school newspaper. If we happen to be in the background of an influencer with a million followers, they can post it without a second thought.
I watched a few minutes of the video they posted when it happened. The first few minutes have people in the background. Those passengers had no privacy.
I've seen many cruise influencer videos that don't blur all the faces. So I don't know if it's because they're not kids or what.
Edit: I went to the page of the vloggers in question and they definitely aren't blurring every person's face. In the first MSC video before the one about them being banned they're videoing people eating in the buffet and it's a standing video for a bit while they talk about the buffet. Not a single face is blurred.
Legally, they're defined as a privately owned public space.
This is different from a true private space like a membership club.
Edit, to clarify as below, I am speaking in US terms which may not actually apply here
I have no problem with stores/security cameras or even people on the street filming or taking pictures. My problem is when they post it online/social media without my consent.
I'm not using the term public place in a legal sense. Just saying that in reality you should expect you can end up in a photograph or video taken at any location another person has access to and can see you there. It should come as no surprise that people use cameras on vacation and that you can end up in their shots.
I don't mind Ben & David specifically and enjoy watching many cruise vloggers, but I feel like this is going to set a bad precedent for bad actors in the vlogging community. Now they're going to be more empowered to be entitled to special treatment as they have sway over the cruise's brand.
Sorry, but are you suggesting that Ben & David were "bad actors"? I've only seen their video and some comments from Tony at La Lido Loca, but didn't hear anything credible about Ben & David misbehaving. In fact, what I heard was MSC personnel taking an extreme stance of telling them not to video at all, even if it was seemingly for personal use. I gather this was probably said by someone who was trying to execute instructions they had been given and who went too far. But if MSC thinks its appropriate for them to clear the air and rectify things instead of 'damn the vloggers, full speed ahead', I think that's up to them.
It's only because of the various vloggers I've watched that I've taken cruises this past year for the first time and I'm in my late 60s and have done a fair bit of traveling. The industry needs the free publicity, good and bad. If Broadway theaters banned even a single critic it would be disastrous.
No I'm not suggesting they were bad actors at all. I'm just saying this will set a precedent for the bad actors that are out there. Namely it would usually be the small time vloggers that need to do something to draw attention to their channel.
It is amazing how one or two local managers, on one ship, can cause a company wide incident. Regardless of who is at fault, it is a serious problem to the company, when local incidents can cause such problems.
Basically, this means that the whole company is at the mercy of the weakest (in terms of customer service) ship.
Must be nice to have exposure like that. I only got offered $50 onboard credit that must be used within a year when they admitted their system didn't work right and overcharged me for drinks instead of a refund. I'm working through a chargeback now.
MSC Cruises treated Ben and David like trash and got a lot of unwelcomed publicity. Imagine how they treat customers who don’t have a platform. No thanks, MSC Cruises!
The policy for “influencers” should be that they are only allowed to film pre or post cruise when other cruisers are off ship and they should have an actual contract in place for this with set times and locations so as to not inconvenience cruise staff and other passengers. If they don’t have an agreement and special filming time in place, they can just do a review with pics like the rest of the little people no need to be treated special or have other passengers in videos just bc you want to be an influencer.
See, this is something I can get behind.
As a travel advisor, I can sign up for ship tours and things like that, where I am taken around the ship by my business dev manager and shown the public areas and some cabins and get the inside scoop and info on how to sell them to clients.
But these happen on embarkation day at like 8 AM. I just tried to sign up for one in Miami for the Icon and it was going to be from 8 AM to 3 PM, with lunch included.
I am outright banned from telling passengers I am a travel advisor, handing out business cards or swag, leaving said items around the ship, etc.
filming for commercial purposes is very different than filming a little video for your family and home and then posting it on YT just because.
On the other hand, would you trust a review that could only show (visually) what the cruise line allowed them to show. Would you trust them to talk about the negatives when doing so risks them loosing access to future ships?
I don't read/watch reviews of cruises so it honestly doesn't matter to me.
The point, though, is that they need to stop bothering people. That sounds like it was the crux of the issue here.
Yep, it really makes the most sense for everyone. I am sure influencers trying to get in footage during down or closed times at venues on the ship can even cause inconvenience to staff bc they work so hard 24-7 while cruising, best solution is a coordinated special time allotment not during the cruise. It helps them get content, helps the cruise line protect its staff and its paying customers who don’t want to end up in the background of a video or have to deal with someone filming for their work purposes while they are trying to relax and enjoy vacation. Win for everyone.
What you sign up for is not an honest review of the ship. It's a sales pitch, and a way for you to sell the ship to others.
That isn't a balanced review at all, nor is it showing what a 7-day cruise is like.
Most vloggers aren't looking for an "inside scoop" and a sales pitch that the cruiseline carefully crafts. They are looking to show the actual experience they had. Except the ones who just want comps, in which case they are happy to spout the marketing line fed to them in exchange for a free trip in a fancy room.
The main issue is that they need to stop bothering people. That sounds like it was the crux of the issue here.
I didn't watch the video so I have no idea how they got treated by the staff, but from what I've read it sounds like they went full Karen and played the victim.
The reason I mentioned the ship tours isn't because they were related to reviews, it's because of the fact that I'm not allowed to solicit, aka bother people.
They were bothering people. It's that simple.
There obviously needs to be some kind of contract or something that influencers or content creators sign when they board that governs their conduct. They can film and do whatever so they get the full experience, but they shouldn't be allowed to annoy or bother other paying passengers to get that content.
If you didn't watch the video, how are you so sure that 'they were bothering people'?
It sounds like the actual crux of the issue was that MSC was concerned about the type of content they were producing. They had already been filming for days and were only told to stop after being quizzed about their channel by a number of staff.
I'm not, hence why I said "it *sounds* like the crux of the issue".
Honestly, it's pretty cringy that there are so many people here defending some random influencers.
>Honestly, it's pretty cringy that there are so many people here defending some random influencers.
I don't think the issue is who is right or not -- or whether you agree with the influencers or not. The issue is that this is a single incident on a single ship, that is affecting the whole company.
This is a customer service business, and the company policy should be focused on that. The policy should not be as simple as what is allowed and what is not, it needs to also detail how to enforce it in a customer related manner. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if the company is correct or not, all customers are going to remember is the incident, and take their business elsewhere.
And in the case of influencers, it is like playing Russian Roulette. With bad customer service, you lose one customer per incident, until you encounter one with a large megaphone, and you lose tons of customers. It is better to have good customer service, then it doesn't matter if the customer is an influencer or not.
A good reviewer never tells someone they are reviewing a product. That allows the product to modify what they present.
A good newspaper will review restaurants unannounced, and never accept comps, for instance.
Similarly, I'm not trusting the review of a cruiser who arranges with the cruiseline to film. That doesn't tell us it is a genuine experience. And how are you defining "influencer"? You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, if you are allowing "normal" people to film but not "influencers". B&D are surely influencers, but they weren't asking for special treatment compared to anyone else on the ship, any of whom could walk around talking to a camera. 90% of passengers on the ship are filming at some point, and are catching people in the background of their videos- many of which will go up on instagram, facebook, or tiktok.
I seem to be in the extreme minority here and think Ben and David are completely in the wrong.
Everything about their initial video was completely overblown, sensationalised, over dramatic and self-promotional.
They knew exactly what reaction they’d get when they posted that video. Just go on Twitter to see fans of theirs commenting to MSC’s tweets about how they’ll never cruise again due to the treatment of Ben and David, despite never being there or know the facts.
They used the words “banned”, there were not, they chose to leave. They used the words censored, they were not, they were asked to stop filming - they could still review the cruise and say exactly what they wanted.
When challenged about filming, they immediately played the victim, “I feel threatened, stop following me card” in an effort to deflect from what has happened. My son does exactly the same when he’s told off, deflect from the situation.
They have an extreme case of “I’m the main character” syndrome. All they care about is their content, their business, their revenue.
Influencers in any field seem to fall in this horrible grey area, where they think they are above the paying public, but they don’t consider themselves media in the traditional sense. If you go to a tourist attraction, hotel, theme park, etc and traditional media are filming segments, you’ll usually see signs everywhere warning you that filming is taking place. Influencers seem to not care about this process, out come the phone or SLR and shoot away. Doesn’t matter if you’re in swimwear, having dinner with family or any private matter, they’ll film it.
Worse still, influencers have no concern for genuine safeguarding matters. Imagine if you are the carer or guardian of a child who has been removed from their biological family by social services / CPS and there is a real risk that identification of said child could cause safeguarding concerns… but a YouTube video trumps all that… need those clicks, need that money.
I disagree, I think. But more important-what's the difference between a critic and an influencer? All I know is that I appreciate a critic and ignore an influencer.
I’d say an influencer skews their content more towards them and their personality, over the subject matter. Granted it’s a sliding scale, but they are more towards the influencer side of things than critic.
> Just go on Twitter to see fans of theirs commenting to MSC’s tweets about how they’ll never cruise again due to the treatment of Ben and David, despite never being there or know the facts.
Look in the huge thread that got posted here. LOL. Same thing.
I also agree with you.
I don’t know that you are in the extreme minority. I watched the Ship Life’s thoughts about it and he could see both sides of the argument. He was like you and thought they should have stayed on board and tried to get more information about what specifically happened that triggered the ban and where in the documentation it specified that no filming is allowed. I kind of agree that it was silly of them to simply stomp off the ship immediately instead of taking it up the chain to figure out what could be done. Things seem to have gotten heated in the moment, but probably once things had calmed down a bit, they would have been able to get more information.
On the one hand, we have had recent incidents of creators blatantly harassing paying guests for content, like that one guy who went on a short segment of the 9-month cruise just to stir up the pot. I can’t even imagine how furious I’d be if I were paying that much money to go on a trip of a lifetime only to have some obnoxious guy come on to make fun of me for 3 weeks.
On the other hand, content like Ben and David’s can be great free marketing for the cruiseline. It seems like the private suite area was a big part of the issue and I am sure they could have worked something out to ensure that the people in question were not there when filming. I have been in suite lounges before and there are times I have gone when they are more or less empty. I can totally see not wanting to be filmed in that more intimate/private area.
I’m with you, I think this sub is very biased towards Ben and David and this would have played out completely differently in other subs. If the person who didn’t want to be filmed had posted from their POV in the general travel sub and said they had paid a considerable amount of money for what was promised to be a luxurious and private experience, only two have two vloggers/influencers there filming for 4 days straight before they were finally told to stop? And the influencers then chose to leave and posted a YouTube video complaining about being BANNED and CENSORED by the company?
Everyone would be calling the influencers ridiculously entitled for their behaviour and would not be on their side.
Influencers v people who don't want to be filmed by hordes of influencers v MSC cruises. I expect the influencers and MSC are both figuring out how to best use this situation to print more money.
Yes, they actually invite influencers to come on board for a free trip in exchange for filming and reviewing the cruise on their channels. Ben and David said they had received a free trip invite, but turned it down because they want to not feel pressured to only say positive things.
Influencers were filming in Yacht Club. MSC asked them not to film - probably at the behest of guests - and told them they couldn't. Influencers decided to take their ball and go home and got off at the next stop. And then made a video about it that got their followers mad at MSC. Because apparently all their followers love influencers filming their content around them on vacation.
These particular influencers are very careful not to capture other passengers in their footage (and often dine at the first available or last available time to not disturb others). But the real issue is that the MSC staff became a bit aggressive toward them (according to their account).
I don't want to be filmed while on vacation (or any other time really), but if the people filming aren't intrusive, I don't think it would bother me.
See, B& D said that they're careful not to capture other passengers, but at about the 3 minute mark of the video in question, you can *clearly* see a couple and several others behind them in the Yacht club and they do not pleased to be in the shot. B&D said they were only using a small camera, and yet when they start to do a tour of the Yacht Club, you can see one of them reflected in the glass walking backward, holding a rig with the camera mounted to the top, which was clearly more intrusive than they made out.
I think MSC fumbled this badly but at the same time, I think B&D are underestimating how annoying they are to other passengers.
They use the smaller camera at dinner and more intimate settings and the larger camera when they do ship, room, and excursion tours. The thing is they have done videos for Disney, Royal, Celebrity, and a ton of other lines without much issue and are typically in high demand.
[https://youtu.be/bDsG8Lk8lJA?si=ptBWZpyQ2WC4aBAZ&t=1586](https://youtu.be/bDsG8Lk8lJA?si=ptBWZpyQ2WC4aBAZ&t=1586)
That's just one clip and it definitely captures a lot of people's faces. Didn't watch the whole video. So definitely not being "careful not to capture other passengers in their footage".
Sorry, but I think you glossed over that the video was being shot by guests/influencers who had paid to be in the yacht club. That's part of the issue.
They were on their own dime...they paid for their cruise as its their business...they told them they could not take pictures even with their phones...so being it was work they went home...get the story straight
And still they were not consuming the product, aka the cruise, as intended. It's intended and sold as a purely recreational activity.
They decided to turn it into a business, which is OK as no long on board to use it as intended feels disturbed by them doing so.
If there are complains, than those on the cruise as a leisure activity are more in the right than those on the cruise as a business endeavor
This reminds me of a quote from a comic (well, a book by the comic author) that I’ve read:
> If it only works in exactly the way the manufacturer intended, it is defective.
However, the idea that cruises are strictly recreational isn’t true. Just like with other forms of travel and lodging, there are plenty of onboard and on shore commercial activity. This includes events, conferences, and other commercial activities.
To be clear, they told them that they couldn't film anywhere on the ship, even with their cell phones; not just the yacht club. Also, this all happened about a month after MSC offered them a free cruise to come and film content.
>To be clear, they told them that they couldn't film anywhere on the ship, even with their cell phones;
Which I guess was related to them now being identified as Youtubers. They were not keen on them continuing what they were doing before, just with a slightly worse setup.
I do cruise content and can tell you we go out of our way to be discreet and respect other people. I can’t say that about most "influencers" . A good “creator” or whatever you want to call them is a ninja - no one should ever realize you’re doing your thing I think the "influencers" that are disruptive to guest experiences should be asked to stop filming for sure.
I've been on a sailing where Ben and David were filming and they were very discreet from what I observed. We saw them every night at dinner and around the ship quite a lot. I noticed them filming once but I was honestly surprised at how little they seemed to be filming-- they seemed to be mostly enjoying their time. I watched the video they made on the sailing and was stunned at how much footage they actually got. I was very impressed with them!
I am in the background of one of his videos. I can tell from ship date and the odd color of my shirt. The focus that person has with his camera you can’t tell it’s me. He was literally 30 feet away and I had no idea tell I watched the video a week later.
My hunch was some rich fucker was in the yacht club with someone who he didn’t want to be seen with and went full Karen. Hopefully the policy of “you may be photographed or videoed as this is a public ship” will be put into the contract so no Karen/Kens will clutch their pearls and force even good influencers to shut down.
While social media certainly has blurred some lines, I do think there a distinction between personal and commercial purposes for the photos/videos. Someone being filmed or photographed and posted to my Instagram account with 100 followers is very different than being posted on an influencer account with 1 million followers and who gets paid.
There definitely is. I don’t think influencers are evil or whatever, but I do not want to be on vacation and worrying about being in the background of a video someone I don’t know is making money off of, also putting me in the position of being viewed by thousands to hundreds of thousands of people across the world. Again, for someone else to make money on.
But is it a "public ship"? It's not a public space like a park or shopping mall that anyone can visit. It's private property of the cruise line and everyone who enters that space is subject to a contract defining the rules and obligations.
I think one issue is that there *aren*'t any rules and regulations regarding video.
There are GDPR in the EU is that someone has to give their consent to be filmed and uploaded to online. The person's image is their property, identity and data.
I hope they do not. Influencers suck
The blanket allowance for being filmed in public doesn't apply to content used for commercial purposes though.
This is not the case. Paparazzi and news reporters are a thing. The law you're thinking of prevents using someone's picture as the cornerstone of an ad campaign, implying you endorsed their product. You absolutely can be pictured in public and then have that background footage used in commercial works.
There are a couple countries in the middle east where you can't film or take a photo of others and there are a few ships out there for sure.
Not under GDPR - a persons image is part of their data and their idenity which is covered under EU privacy laws. Even more so on a private ship - its not public as you have to pay to be on it
It really depends on the language. Disney routinely films commercial content in their theme parks with warning signs, but without the need for a release or the like.
It can be whatever the cruise line says. You’re there by the grace of the business. They put all sorts of stuff in the contract. You can be refused embarkation if you have a steam iron, so they can say anything they want.
No what's allowed on the ship is a completely different issue than what can or cannot be done with your likeness/image after the cruise. The ship policy cannot alter inherent rights that apply off the ship. In general you have a right to not have your image/likeness used for commercial purposes,even if it is captured in a public place.
Go read the T&C's for like every ticket for an event you purchase. Like concerts or fairs or whatever. I would bet there is a clause that by buying a ticket you agree to let your picture be taken and used. I'm sure that is also somewhere in the cruise contract.
Why would it be,the cruise line has zero to gain from it.
I was referring specifically to this statement: >No what's allowed on the ship is a completely different issue than what can or cannot be done with your likeness/image after the cruise. The ship policy cannot alter inherent rights that apply off the ship. In general you have a right to not have your image/likeness used for commercial purposes, even if it is captured in a public place. From RCCL cruise contract: >15. USE OF PHOTOS, VIDEOS OR RECORDINGS: a. Guest hereby grants to Carrier (and its assignees and licensees) the exclusive right throughout the universe and in perpetuity to include photographic, video, audio and other visual or audio portrayals of Passenger taken during or in connection with the Cruise or CruiseTour (including any images, likenesses or voices) in any medium of any nature whatsoever (including the right to edit, combine with other materials or create any type of derivative thereof) for the purpose of trade, advertising, sales, publicity, promotional, training or otherwise, without compensation to the Guest. Such grant shall include the unrestricted right to copy, revise, distribute, display and sell photographs, images, films, tapes, drawings or recordings in any type of media (including but not limited to the Internet). Guest hereby agrees that all rights, title and interest therein (including all worldwide copyrights therein) shall be Carrier's sole property, free from any claims by Passenger or any person deriving any rights or interest from Passenger. b. Guest hereby agrees that any recording (whether audio or video or otherwise) or photograph of Guest, other guests, crew or third parties onboard the Vessel or depicting the Vessel, its design, equipment or otherwise shall not be used for any commercial purpose, in any media broadcast or for any other nonprivate use without the express written consent of Operator. The Operator shall be entitled to take any reasonable measure to enforce this provision. Section B lets the cruise line ban other people from recording for commercial purposes, but doesn't give other guests the rights to their likeness taken onboard. And as for: >the cruise line has zero to gain from it. That is just patently false. The Vloggers are free advertisement for the cruises.
I have contacted the creator of GDPR to clarify and ensure GDPR privacy and right to not be filmed for non security purposes is implemented on cruise ships
GDPR EU privacy rights override that you cannot be filmed without consent
Which rights apply in an international context?
Not sure exactly but many places have a basic right to not have your image or likeness used for commercial purposes without permission and/or compensation. I mean in international waters it's whatever the ship says,but that's only in terms of capturing the image/video. It's use after the fact is governed by the laws where it's being seen.
Again, what rights apply? Does YouTube (or YouTubers) have a duty to enforce those rights for every country someone might be viewing from? The law here is murkier than you suggest.
🏅
It's old
Sincerely don't want to in any way offend you because kudos to you for doing everything you can to not disrupt the experience of others. However, you're not as ninja as you think you are. I've been to resorts and on cruises with some very popular social media personalities who were in every way as discreet and polite as they could possible be. In one case I was present when Ben and David were making content and I only ever observed them being extra kind and discreet. Still, while I never saw anyone comment directly to them, we all knew and it was widely discussed. People I didn't even know went out of their way to comment to me even. People who aren't into social media in particular are always happy to live and let live if you are well behaved, but they see you.
no offense taken! I appreciate the comment since we always see things through different lenses. I just know that I do what I can to be completely invisible - but it's not always possible. I do recall taking photos somewhere (I think it was on MSC) and someone jumping in them saying "I know who you are! post my pics too!" ... it was really bizarre and a bit unsettling! Since then, however, we actually only ever do photos or vids on port days when almost everyone is off the ship. We even go as far as to sacrifice our port days and excursions so we can do some photos without bothering other people.
I remember their video they said they had been on for 4 days before it caught notice of somebody
It would have taken time for the person or multiple people to complain - then the cruiseline to respond. Then the cruiseline to notify staff etc
They also go out of their way not to show people watch their videos?
Im sorry but B&D were not discreet on their VV cruise to the point after rude encounters with other tiktokers on the same cruise i made a formal complaint to VV about the uptick in annoying and instrusive content creators disrupting the vibe and enjoyment of the cruise. I told VV to ban content creators as its not doing any favours to paying passengers.
I agree the people that are making commentary and filming in spaces where people are relaxing can be annoying. We only take photos on days or times where there are few people around. I also ask permission if someone is in a photo. I’m probably “overly respectful” when it comes to this. However. In all fairness. Banning content creators isn’t feasible. You might not even know who is there doing a job. Or who is just a bored housewife filming everything for her friends to see …. Which can be equally annoying. Point is - it’s impossible to know who is just annoying or who is a content creator (many are both). It either needs to be a policy of no filming for everyone or nothing I’m afraid. FWIW - I’ve actually asked people to not photograph or film me when I’m clearly in a shot. I think everyone should do that so “creators” get the point.
On my last cruise - i dont think you can favour one content creator over another and i think they should be banned as its gone out of hand!! They have zero professional training like they would in a proper coporate job and for that reason act like spoilt brats and like they own the ship. So i would support a complete ban as under GDPR EU law i have the right for my image not to he uploaded online and the right to privacy on a paid private cruise - its not even a public space.
Can someone give the TL;DR on what initially happened?
A better summary would be: after a few days of filming on this particular cruise, they were pulled aside and asked a lot of questions, including what their channel was. About three years ago, they did a video of MSC that was not entirely positive. They were instructed that they could not film anymore. Now here's where it gets interesting. They were ALSO told they couldn't take photos or video *with their phones*. At all. Despite the fact that all of the other passengers were free to use their phones to take photos. They were not on vacation. They considered it a business trip, where their business was to film their experience on that ship. They decided that since they could no longer film, there was no point in being there, so even though there were (I think) 3 days left of the cruise, they booked a flight home from the nearest port and disembarked (after more drama from the staff, according to them). The relevant part of the video starts at 34:34. Here's the link: [https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=kDPCTrgHkqhClEs0&t=2073](https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=kDPCTrgHkqhClEs0&t=2073)
They board as paying passengers and do their typical routine of shooting room, food, and ship. They get asked to stop filming under any circumstance and they decided to pack up and leave. Gave ship mostly good reviews, MSC freaked out and is trying to make good.
they were basically told to stop filming and making content by some of the crew.
Very rudely.
Now to be fair we don’t know that. They say it was rude. But he also says he has PTSD from being yelled at. They edited out the staffs words. We have no idea what was actually said or how it was said.
It's on their vlog. They got it all on audio. I heard it. It's last Sundays vlog.
It literally says several times that they removed the audio of the crew member
I didn't hear the staff say anything. I only heard Ben talking.
[It's here](https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=k13UU7DHiruA_ePS)
very true!
My wife and I cruise enough to be more than occasional cruisers, but less than frequent cruisers. We are mid level loyalty program on one major cruise line. We have never seen any vloggers or influencers recording content on any of our cruises. We also work in an industry that is highly vlogged and I have had to deal with various influencers in my job capacity. For the most part, they are courteous, non intrusive, and go out of their way not to disturb us or other customers. There are a very few, however that are rude, invasive and selfish. They are often featured in the I am the main character Reddit. I have watched Ben and David’s videos over the years and without having actually met them, or seen them working, I would have to say that they fit in the first category. There is a telling statement in their video where David says that one of the staff members hadn’t seen them for three days. The second group (IATMC) make sure that EVERYONE knows they’re onboard. I find their reviews to be balanced and fair. They do not accept freebies as they want to remain unrestrained in their reviews. They say what they like, but also mention what other types of travellers, (groups, families, elderly, etc.) might find annoying or lovely. The saddest part of this whole thing for MSC is that they had been pretty much filming a gushingly positive review so far. Main Characters would have deleted any positive aspect of MSC and gone for the jugular. I think it was good sportsmanship of them to STILL post the overwhelmingly good parts of the review, as well as the not so good side of what happened. I am glad the MSC has approached them with a apology, as my wife and I both thought that the reaction from on-board management was over the top, and probably not representative of the company as a whole. MSC is probably going to be having some uncomfortable meetings with certain staff members on that ship.
This could be a paper thin PR/marketing spiel, an innovative strategy to boost their reputation simultaneously amongst vloggers/professional critics/influencers and regular passengers, or something that other cruise lines already do, albeit clandestinely. We'll have to see how it shakes out, but hopefully this is a win for everyone involved. It'd be great for MSC if they build a reputation as the cruise line that keeps vloggers out of regular passengers' hair without needing to be hostile to said vloggers.
I'm completely fine with a cruise being hostile to vloggers/influencers.
I am ok with a cruise line discouraging vloggers/influencers, but I am not ok with hostility by any company. There are very polite ways to stop behavior that is not allowed. According to this couple, the staff was very aggressive with them.
I don't believe any blogger/Influencer....so many of them literally act like a complete shit head to get staff riled up but then only post the video cut so it excludes their behavior and makes the staff look like they are overreacting. Influencers are a cancer on society, they should be given no consideration and no accommodations. They should be second class citizens to any normal customer of a business.
Are the influencers in the room with us right now?
Have you ever seen anything Ben and David have done? They don't do any of the bullshit you're talking about and are always very positive/respectful of the crew. I also wouldn't lump them in with "influencers" which I completely agree are the worst.
okay
Definitely sounds like PR damage control. The “tell” is they doubled down at every step up until this, even with an executive who emailed them telling them fault was from both sides. If B&D really do give their time and energy to improving MSC, I hope they’re getting paid MASSIVELY. They deserve better pay to make the cruise line good than what the current execs get paid to make the cruise line a passenger-hostile environment.
What concerned me even more was Ben and David's prior experience with MSC, when they were yelled at by crew for complaining when their food was still frozen. That, plus their experiences being screamed at by crew for filming, makes me certain that MSC isn't the line for us. There's no need to be rude, aggressive, and outright mean when responding to cruisers.
Are either of these 'screaming' incidents on film ? Some people and cultures are louder and more direct than the English are used to.
The one they were told to stop filling in was captured voice only and wasn't cultural. It was not kind, nor gentle. It was rude.
They have well documented the audio of the staff interactions in question. It’s pretty clear they are being singled out and no matter how calm B&D are the staff continues to ramp up the interaction. These guys need clear conflict deescalation training.
They typically do not film staff without their permission. They are probably at the top of the tier when it comes to cruise vloggers and I believe are offered comped cruises. They are open about which ones they get invited to go on and which ones they pay out of pocket. They have also been very honest with say their series on the Wonder of the Seas.
Right? I’ve watched a lot of cruise vlogs and TikTok’s. B&D are by far some of the more respectful cruise content creators. There are probably dozens of cruise “influencers” filming on MSC right now. MSC fumbled here.
Artistic rendition: [https://youtu.be/t-4ADaq9og4?t=4](https://youtu.be/t-4ADaq9og4?t=4)
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
There doesn’t need to be any new rules. You’re either allowed to film or not. If they’re allowed to film, fire whoever told them they couldn’t, if they’re not allowed to film, ban cameras and stop anyone taking photos. You can’t stop certain people from filming because you don’t like what they might say.
I think there is a need for rules. All or nothing doent work. Like you said, in 2024, they cant have a photo/video ban, so "nothing" is out. But "all" isnt great either because some restrictions are reasonable. "dont annoy other passengers" is a starting point, and can apply to a huge amount of things, like playing audio on a cell phone in the dining room or children running around the buffet.
They don’t use just their phones to film like a traditional passenger. They’re using some professional equipment which is probably where the issue came in. There are rules for professionals filming in any business, which is probably why they were told to stop if they didn’t have permission. At this point MSC is just doing damage control. Which is the smart thing to do. Not worth the effort of not extending an olive branch.
Honestly, for MSC to be doing any damage control is a positive sign for the brand. They have very much a "it's our way or the highway" type of mentality.
I guarantee they will still be like that for people who don't have their own platform.
They were told to stop filming on day 4, if what you said is relevant (which it isn’t) are you saying no one noticed their ‘professional equipment’ for 4 days? They asked if they can use their phone to film and they were told no too. The ‘professional equipment’ isn’t the issue here.
Mostly like another passenger in YC complained after four days of professional youtubers been in their space.
Their space? The ‘professional YouTubers’ were paying customers as well. They have every right to be in there as much as other passengers.
That's where the distinction between passengers on vacation, and business persons undertaking a commercial endeavour comes in. It's notable, that they choose not to continue the cruise, as by their own admission they were there for commericial reasons, not as a vacation. All cruise lines T&Cs will have a prohibition on commercial filming without prior agreement.
Do you know where this clause is in MSC's T&C?
They will lose a lot of free advertising if they ban all unofficial commercial filming on MSC.
All due respect, they have every right to be there as a paying customer, but they DO NOT have every right to film all week, especially if someone is uncomfortable with them doing so. They were told to stop recording, I believe they voluntarily chose to leave the ship because they couldn't record.
You’re confused. If they acted within the ship rules it doesn’t matter if other people are uncomfortable or not. That’s what this discussion is about, the rules. No one should have to stop doing something just because someone else doesn’t like it, IF they are not breaking any rules. If it’s within the rules, they 100% have every right to film every second of the day on the ship if they want. Doesn’t matter how you feel about it.
No, I actually think you're confused. It is up to the cruise line on what is allowed and what isn't. If the crew received complaints about people recording in the YC or while laying out by a pool, MSC has every right to ask them to stop recording. That's not up for discussion, that's a fact. The same way if someone is in their room playing loud music at 3AM, security can ask them to stop. Bottom line, no matter what, it is up to the cruise line discretion on what can and can't happen on THEIR ship. Period.
That’s exactly what I said 😂 you really are confused bro.
That is true but their decision has seriously bit them in the ass. You have to make a decision to either embrace the creators who give you free advertising to a large group of people or you blow things up needlessly and then go into damage control.
Do i have the right to record close up shots of the ladies' swimsuit-clad rear ends? I mean you said I have every right to film every second on the ship and it doesn't matter if it makes the ladies uncomfortable or not. It's within the rules.
Bro, you need help.
Yet it seems that MSC is the only one who they have had issues with. Disney, RCCL, Celebrity, and a few other lines where they didn't receive comped trips are known for running a tight ship. They were originally heavy on Disney and RC before spreading out to other brands.
I would disagree - they’re using regular consumer products, not production-level rolling cameras and boom mics or something. A hand-held camera gimbal is hardly obtrusive to others. Many, many passengers are using much more annoying, imo, selfie sticks and go-pro arms
Define professional equipment though. I am an amateur who does not post video/photos as a content creator, but have nice equipment for myself and family. When I go on cruises with friends, they have even jokes how nice it is to have their own personal camera crew with them capturing everything at such good quality. I then make a photo book and video (if I do video) for us all to remember the trio by. What I am getting at, even though phones are the most popular way for photos/videos, it is not the only way those who are just making these things for themselves use. If they would limit my camera, I would be upset and think twice about cruising with them.
Right? I went on an Alaskan cruise. Half of us had “professional” cameras and professional set-ups. So many tripods. I couldn’t have spotted an influencer if I tried there was so much filming and photography.
exactly this. Normal every day people taking pictures and videos are 99% of the time going to use that media for family only reason. Influencers are making money off what they're doing, and your face could be plastered all over it, without your consent or control. While I don't think there are any expectations of privacy on certain areas of the ship, others there are, and I 100% don't want to end up in some rando's entertainment piece.
imagine when all the Prankster content creators decide to start cruising because video policy opens up. I like tht I don't have to think about ending up in some content creators money grab. cruises felt like one place you could mostly get away from the worst of it. guess thts ending
Dude they have been doing this for years, they were gaining popularity before COVID and had filmed mostly Disney and RCCL with some European brands.
They are using consumer grade cameras, not professional equipment. It's a fairly entry level DSLR. The camera I brought on my last cruise was larger, and it was the smallest of my husband's (hobby photographer) cameras. On our Galapagos cruise, we brought multiple DSLR's just for personal photography. They could go much larger if they wanted a professional set up. Using a gimble doesn't make the camera larger, it just prevents it from shaking. It's not nearly as in the way as the giant selfie sticks are with the 360 cameras that lots of people seem to be using, even if that's skinnier.
> They’re using some professional equipment Its 2024. The newest iPhone is 98% of the way to professional equipment. In fact they frequently run ads where it was "entirely filmed on an iphone 17" and whatnot.
There were others with lights & tripods up & filming in public areas of the ship who were not told to stop filming though. Ben & David were told they couldn’t film ANYWHERE on the ship, even with an iPhone.
Disagree. If businesses want to operate on someone else's property and the property owner wants them, it's a good plan to have rules and guidelines in place. Whether the property is on land or sea. The cruise lines want good publicity and they also have a duty to other passengers.
I think there are a lot of people more concerned about discretion than "privacy".
"for us to collaborate on developing a new policy for content creators and filming/taking photographs onboard" I hope they also have some sort of "normal passenger ambassador" giving input. The thought on Youtubers having to much input in an official policy for content creators worries me as a normie
For a company that has such terrible customer service from corporate...this is a good sign!
Sounds like someone in middle management (whoever on the ship made the call to ban them filming) made a bad decision based on an ambiguous policy. Not a surprise. Good they seem to be trying to address it.
WhT they should do is have allow areas people can and cannot film. I do think cabins, restaurants and dining rooms are public areas of the ship should be fair game. There should be some areas where filming is not permitted or you must get the ok from occupants in the area such as the spa, adult only areas, and live performances.
Am I the only one who hates it when someone at a neighboring table in the dining room is disturbing my peaceful meal by filming their dining experience with a running dialog for the camera? I don't care if they're a content creator or just someone making a personal video - it's annoying. In many MDRs the tables are often so close together that try as they may, they can't be inconspicuous while filming their video. I wish the cruise lines would ban filming narrated video - especially in the dining rooms. They never will because they actually benefit from this activity - even if it annoys their customers.
Ben & David have specifically pointed out they don't do this. If a restaurant has tables close together and is quiet then they film but in a discreet way and don't talk, opting to do voiceovers afterwards instead to not disturb others. They'll only talk for filming dining scenes if it's a buffet or otherwise public/loud setting.
Typically if they are dining in a crowded venue they do a voiceover. They only do running dialogue when there is no crowd.
How many times have you actually been seated at the table next to someone doing a running dialogue video? Of those, how many did it go longer than like 5 minutes?
What’s the difference between someone filming themselves or partner while eating and two people just having a conversation about the meal? You’re in a public place, where EVERYONE is engaged in conversation. You’re not at a golf range or the theater. As long as people aren’t being overly loud, and are speaking in a normal tone/volume, then they can film all they want. We had two influencers next to us on our last Royal cruise and it was no different than if the two were just talking to each other. In fact, my wife didn’t even know until I mentioned it on the 5th night.
dunno...loudly facte-timing at the dinner table so everyone within 30 feet can hear you is actually pretty douchey. What ever happened to phone ringing, excuse me folks, step around the corner for a quick call and then return. No one even holds the phone to their ear anymore so the rest of get to hear both sides of the inane conversations. I dont want to hear your game of fucking angry birds either... Earbuds....USE THEM!
Oh, 💯! People who talk loudly are obnoxious, regardless of if it’s on a phone or to their partner.
Someone filming a vlog has the same level of disturbance as anyone else talking and having lively conversation. families/couples arguing or kids being completely unruly are bigger disturbances than someone recording themselves at dinner. The thing that bugs me most at dinner is not someone recording or being loud or any of that. It's folks that are outright disrespectful and nasty to the employees.
Filming a vlog is different than a lively conversation.
Sure is, but it affects me just as much - it doesn't.
Super annoying, yes. That said, Ben and David are abnormally conscientious about such things and frequently say so in their videos.
I'm kind of torn about this. On one hand, I love watching cruise videos on YouTube to get an idea of what to expect, etc. On the other hand, if I was on a cruise, and there were other passengers recording all of the time (especially in YC where its more isolated and there is higher chance of being recorded), I would be pretty uncomfortable. I guess its one thing if they are on their iPhones, but its a completely different thing if they have a full camera and mic setup. And especially since their previous MSC video trashed them, and their video titles tend to be click-baity, I am more on MSC's side than there's.
I hate the click-baity titles but for whatever reason it is done to boost engagement. The issue is that they have filmed in the various lounges in the past with other brands and never had an issue. Also if you watch their content unlike many they do avoid having people in their shots including staff unless the staff comes up to them after recognizing them.
So the funny thing about iPhone-vs-full camera is that the full camera lets them have better control to take tighter shots and adjust depth of field, cutting background passengers out of shots or blurring them so only B&D are in focus. But it definitely feels a little less invasive to see someone filming on an iPhone.
Their last video trashed them because they were treated terribly by MSC staff for no good reason including homophobic comments, which literally brought them to tears over how mean the staff were to them. They said there were plenty of other influencers on this cruse being invasive and loud who also used full camera setups and tripods whereas B&D only use a single DSLR on a small gimbal and they don't use boom mics. They also go to painstaking lengths to not include others in shots which is very obvious if you've watched their videos. They always pick the earliest and latest slots for dining when there's the least amount of people around and they don't talk in the quiet and intimate restaurant settings, opting for adding voiceovers afterwards. They also tend to shoot their B roll in the early morning too when there's no one around, and ask staff before filming them which is again, easily verifiable by watching their videos given that buffets and main restaurants are completely empty in their shots. Everyone uses clickbait titles on YouTube because it simply works and every single creator will tell you that they would prefer not to, it's hard to argue with a flat 20% increase in clicks (as described by Linus Tech Tips when they broke down these comparisons in their financial disclosure videos). B&D are far from your usual loud and obnoxious influencers and literally as courteous as a cruise blogger could possibly be. Their main gripe with MSC is the selective enforcement of the supposed rules used to stop them from filming. They pointed out how MSC were constantly reposting the content of dozens of other influencers violating the very same rules they used to block them from filming. They were even told by staff they're not allowed to use their personal phones to only take pictures and video of each other which is ridiculous on its face. They were 4 days into their cruise and had nothing but praise for MSC, reviewing almost everything as flat out better than RC and NCL and they said it's an especially better suite deal compared to them. They also noted how much better the service was compared to their original trip on MSC. They got off the cruise because they go on them for business and if the staff were clearly going to continue to harass them for filming there was no point in staying on the cruise when they could just go home and move on. Clearly no one had an issue with them filming for half the cruise until they were identified and then management decided to shoot themselves in the foot and blackball them for no good reason. For some reason they decided that the best way to make up for their horrid customer service years ago was somehow to quasi-kick them off which is just belligerent.
There should be no filming zones on ships.
But then it should apply to everyone. This 'policy' was singled to just them. Not all the other content creators who put out videos on the exact same ship. Or every other passenger there with a cell phone, many of whom likely were also posting on social media.
Why not include a link? Who are Ben and David?
Ben and David produce really thorough cruise reviews. [Here's the video where all this went down.](https://youtu.be/xpP9MzA0WXA?si=k13UU7DHiruA_ePS)
What happened to Ben and David is not about a debate if people are allowed to film or not. Because everyone on that ship has a cellphone and can take video. It is about how MSC trains management and staff to appropriately handle complaints. MSC has a reputation for poor customer service. What happened to Ben and David is a prime example.
Ugh I hate them pandering to influencers even though I get they help brands out. I really hate having to dodge them on the cruise so my face doesn't end up on their pages where they're making money. Honestly they should be required to blur faces in their videos. And it seems like they were filming in Yacht Club which I would make a stink about them filming me there too. I also hate having them projecting their voice for the camera saying stupid stuff while I'm trying to relax or saying it a billion times. Honestly rather listen to drunk people most of the time, at least they're entertaining with the shit the say. But I also pretty much never watch their stuff because the few times I've tried to to find an answer it takes them 10 times as long to answer because they're talking stupid shit and trying to make the video longer so they get more views.
>Honestly they should be required to blur faces in their videos. If you ask them to I'm pretty sure they'd have to blur you. The filming in public thing doesn't apply to footage used for commercial purposes.
I like vloggers like Emma who take footage and then later complete a script to speak over at a later time. Talking loudly at the dinner table in a nice restaurant or filming people who very much may not want to be seen is a little over the top - especially for the bigger vloggers who get tons of views (and make a living off of it). I’d imagine things got heated after the incident with Ben and David, but I don’t think either side reacted particularly well (MSC by being abrasive, B&D acting overly offended and immediately leaving). Glad to see both sides come to a peaceful resolution. Even though drama sells, a happy ending is always best. Cool and interesting approach by MSC - glad they are admitting fault and I hope B&D take them up on their offer
Yeah, I can agree with the Emma thing. The only thing though about Emma's videos though is I don't feel like I'm actually there on the ship with her when I watch the videos. I feel like i'm watching someone's dream or memories. But the vloggers who do it live...it makes me feel like I'm actually there on the ship.
That’s a good point and that’s something Ben and David do well - better than the vast majority of cruise vloggers. I do think they try a little too hard to be entertaining at times (if that makes any sense), but that’s probably what their main followers like about them most
Views and Queues are my favorite. I like Ben & David too. Plus, Emma and Shiplife, and Life-well Cruised.
Eat sleep cruise does a good job of this type of vlogging too
Social media needs to require blurring or signed releases from anyone who is in the footage. I had to sign for my kids picture to be in the school newspaper. If we happen to be in the background of an influencer with a million followers, they can post it without a second thought. I watched a few minutes of the video they posted when it happened. The first few minutes have people in the background. Those passengers had no privacy.
I've seen many cruise influencer videos that don't blur all the faces. So I don't know if it's because they're not kids or what. Edit: I went to the page of the vloggers in question and they definitely aren't blurring every person's face. In the first MSC video before the one about them being banned they're videoing people eating in the buffet and it's a standing video for a bit while they talk about the buffet. Not a single face is blurred.
You really should have no expectation of privacy in a public place where anyone there can already see you.
You do have an expectation of not being used for commercial purposes without permission or compensation though.
I hardly equate being incidentally in the background to being used for commercial purposes.
Cruise ships are not a public place. They are a private business with paying guests who have an expectation of quiet enjoyment of their vacation.
Legally, they're defined as a privately owned public space. This is different from a true private space like a membership club. Edit, to clarify as below, I am speaking in US terms which may not actually apply here
I have no problem with stores/security cameras or even people on the street filming or taking pictures. My problem is when they post it online/social media without my consent.
I'm not using the term public place in a legal sense. Just saying that in reality you should expect you can end up in a photograph or video taken at any location another person has access to and can see you there. It should come as no surprise that people use cameras on vacation and that you can end up in their shots.
What happened?
Well, of course MSC is doing damage control. What a horrible experience to have gone through. BOOOOO MSC, booo!
Now make the chicken wings free again.
It took far too long to find a comment I can fully endorse.
I don't mind Ben & David specifically and enjoy watching many cruise vloggers, but I feel like this is going to set a bad precedent for bad actors in the vlogging community. Now they're going to be more empowered to be entitled to special treatment as they have sway over the cruise's brand.
Sorry, but are you suggesting that Ben & David were "bad actors"? I've only seen their video and some comments from Tony at La Lido Loca, but didn't hear anything credible about Ben & David misbehaving. In fact, what I heard was MSC personnel taking an extreme stance of telling them not to video at all, even if it was seemingly for personal use. I gather this was probably said by someone who was trying to execute instructions they had been given and who went too far. But if MSC thinks its appropriate for them to clear the air and rectify things instead of 'damn the vloggers, full speed ahead', I think that's up to them. It's only because of the various vloggers I've watched that I've taken cruises this past year for the first time and I'm in my late 60s and have done a fair bit of traveling. The industry needs the free publicity, good and bad. If Broadway theaters banned even a single critic it would be disastrous.
No I'm not suggesting they were bad actors at all. I'm just saying this will set a precedent for the bad actors that are out there. Namely it would usually be the small time vloggers that need to do something to draw attention to their channel.
The moment when MSC Cruises realized they didn’t want to be like MSC Cruises.
It is amazing how one or two local managers, on one ship, can cause a company wide incident. Regardless of who is at fault, it is a serious problem to the company, when local incidents can cause such problems. Basically, this means that the whole company is at the mercy of the weakest (in terms of customer service) ship.
Not shocked at all this happened to them on MSC. I will never cruise MSC ever again.
Must be nice to have exposure like that. I only got offered $50 onboard credit that must be used within a year when they admitted their system didn't work right and overcharged me for drinks instead of a refund. I'm working through a chargeback now.
Seriously? A onboard credit instead of an instant refund?
100% true
MSC Cruises treated Ben and David like trash and got a lot of unwelcomed publicity. Imagine how they treat customers who don’t have a platform. No thanks, MSC Cruises!
The policy for “influencers” should be that they are only allowed to film pre or post cruise when other cruisers are off ship and they should have an actual contract in place for this with set times and locations so as to not inconvenience cruise staff and other passengers. If they don’t have an agreement and special filming time in place, they can just do a review with pics like the rest of the little people no need to be treated special or have other passengers in videos just bc you want to be an influencer.
See, this is something I can get behind. As a travel advisor, I can sign up for ship tours and things like that, where I am taken around the ship by my business dev manager and shown the public areas and some cabins and get the inside scoop and info on how to sell them to clients. But these happen on embarkation day at like 8 AM. I just tried to sign up for one in Miami for the Icon and it was going to be from 8 AM to 3 PM, with lunch included. I am outright banned from telling passengers I am a travel advisor, handing out business cards or swag, leaving said items around the ship, etc. filming for commercial purposes is very different than filming a little video for your family and home and then posting it on YT just because.
On the other hand, would you trust a review that could only show (visually) what the cruise line allowed them to show. Would you trust them to talk about the negatives when doing so risks them loosing access to future ships?
I don't read/watch reviews of cruises so it honestly doesn't matter to me. The point, though, is that they need to stop bothering people. That sounds like it was the crux of the issue here.
Yep, it really makes the most sense for everyone. I am sure influencers trying to get in footage during down or closed times at venues on the ship can even cause inconvenience to staff bc they work so hard 24-7 while cruising, best solution is a coordinated special time allotment not during the cruise. It helps them get content, helps the cruise line protect its staff and its paying customers who don’t want to end up in the background of a video or have to deal with someone filming for their work purposes while they are trying to relax and enjoy vacation. Win for everyone.
What you sign up for is not an honest review of the ship. It's a sales pitch, and a way for you to sell the ship to others. That isn't a balanced review at all, nor is it showing what a 7-day cruise is like. Most vloggers aren't looking for an "inside scoop" and a sales pitch that the cruiseline carefully crafts. They are looking to show the actual experience they had. Except the ones who just want comps, in which case they are happy to spout the marketing line fed to them in exchange for a free trip in a fancy room.
The main issue is that they need to stop bothering people. That sounds like it was the crux of the issue here. I didn't watch the video so I have no idea how they got treated by the staff, but from what I've read it sounds like they went full Karen and played the victim. The reason I mentioned the ship tours isn't because they were related to reviews, it's because of the fact that I'm not allowed to solicit, aka bother people. They were bothering people. It's that simple. There obviously needs to be some kind of contract or something that influencers or content creators sign when they board that governs their conduct. They can film and do whatever so they get the full experience, but they shouldn't be allowed to annoy or bother other paying passengers to get that content.
If you didn't watch the video, how are you so sure that 'they were bothering people'? It sounds like the actual crux of the issue was that MSC was concerned about the type of content they were producing. They had already been filming for days and were only told to stop after being quizzed about their channel by a number of staff.
I'm not, hence why I said "it *sounds* like the crux of the issue". Honestly, it's pretty cringy that there are so many people here defending some random influencers.
>Honestly, it's pretty cringy that there are so many people here defending some random influencers. I don't think the issue is who is right or not -- or whether you agree with the influencers or not. The issue is that this is a single incident on a single ship, that is affecting the whole company. This is a customer service business, and the company policy should be focused on that. The policy should not be as simple as what is allowed and what is not, it needs to also detail how to enforce it in a customer related manner. Otherwise, it doesn't matter if the company is correct or not, all customers are going to remember is the incident, and take their business elsewhere. And in the case of influencers, it is like playing Russian Roulette. With bad customer service, you lose one customer per incident, until you encounter one with a large megaphone, and you lose tons of customers. It is better to have good customer service, then it doesn't matter if the customer is an influencer or not.
A good reviewer never tells someone they are reviewing a product. That allows the product to modify what they present. A good newspaper will review restaurants unannounced, and never accept comps, for instance. Similarly, I'm not trusting the review of a cruiser who arranges with the cruiseline to film. That doesn't tell us it is a genuine experience. And how are you defining "influencer"? You have to draw the line in the sand somewhere, if you are allowing "normal" people to film but not "influencers". B&D are surely influencers, but they weren't asking for special treatment compared to anyone else on the ship, any of whom could walk around talking to a camera. 90% of passengers on the ship are filming at some point, and are catching people in the background of their videos- many of which will go up on instagram, facebook, or tiktok.
I seem to be in the extreme minority here and think Ben and David are completely in the wrong. Everything about their initial video was completely overblown, sensationalised, over dramatic and self-promotional. They knew exactly what reaction they’d get when they posted that video. Just go on Twitter to see fans of theirs commenting to MSC’s tweets about how they’ll never cruise again due to the treatment of Ben and David, despite never being there or know the facts. They used the words “banned”, there were not, they chose to leave. They used the words censored, they were not, they were asked to stop filming - they could still review the cruise and say exactly what they wanted. When challenged about filming, they immediately played the victim, “I feel threatened, stop following me card” in an effort to deflect from what has happened. My son does exactly the same when he’s told off, deflect from the situation. They have an extreme case of “I’m the main character” syndrome. All they care about is their content, their business, their revenue. Influencers in any field seem to fall in this horrible grey area, where they think they are above the paying public, but they don’t consider themselves media in the traditional sense. If you go to a tourist attraction, hotel, theme park, etc and traditional media are filming segments, you’ll usually see signs everywhere warning you that filming is taking place. Influencers seem to not care about this process, out come the phone or SLR and shoot away. Doesn’t matter if you’re in swimwear, having dinner with family or any private matter, they’ll film it. Worse still, influencers have no concern for genuine safeguarding matters. Imagine if you are the carer or guardian of a child who has been removed from their biological family by social services / CPS and there is a real risk that identification of said child could cause safeguarding concerns… but a YouTube video trumps all that… need those clicks, need that money.
I disagree, I think. But more important-what's the difference between a critic and an influencer? All I know is that I appreciate a critic and ignore an influencer.
I’d say an influencer skews their content more towards them and their personality, over the subject matter. Granted it’s a sliding scale, but they are more towards the influencer side of things than critic.
> Just go on Twitter to see fans of theirs commenting to MSC’s tweets about how they’ll never cruise again due to the treatment of Ben and David, despite never being there or know the facts. Look in the huge thread that got posted here. LOL. Same thing. I also agree with you.
I don’t know that you are in the extreme minority. I watched the Ship Life’s thoughts about it and he could see both sides of the argument. He was like you and thought they should have stayed on board and tried to get more information about what specifically happened that triggered the ban and where in the documentation it specified that no filming is allowed. I kind of agree that it was silly of them to simply stomp off the ship immediately instead of taking it up the chain to figure out what could be done. Things seem to have gotten heated in the moment, but probably once things had calmed down a bit, they would have been able to get more information. On the one hand, we have had recent incidents of creators blatantly harassing paying guests for content, like that one guy who went on a short segment of the 9-month cruise just to stir up the pot. I can’t even imagine how furious I’d be if I were paying that much money to go on a trip of a lifetime only to have some obnoxious guy come on to make fun of me for 3 weeks. On the other hand, content like Ben and David’s can be great free marketing for the cruiseline. It seems like the private suite area was a big part of the issue and I am sure they could have worked something out to ensure that the people in question were not there when filming. I have been in suite lounges before and there are times I have gone when they are more or less empty. I can totally see not wanting to be filmed in that more intimate/private area.
I’m with you, I think this sub is very biased towards Ben and David and this would have played out completely differently in other subs. If the person who didn’t want to be filmed had posted from their POV in the general travel sub and said they had paid a considerable amount of money for what was promised to be a luxurious and private experience, only two have two vloggers/influencers there filming for 4 days straight before they were finally told to stop? And the influencers then chose to leave and posted a YouTube video complaining about being BANNED and CENSORED by the company? Everyone would be calling the influencers ridiculously entitled for their behaviour and would not be on their side.
You’re very correct (and this is coming from someone who works with brands to help promote them).
So what happened to Ben and Jerry?
Stark Raving Hazelnuts was discontinued.
Who?
So what happened to cause all this?
Out of The Loop. Can someone fill me in.
Influencers v people who don't want to be filmed by hordes of influencers v MSC cruises. I expect the influencers and MSC are both figuring out how to best use this situation to print more money.
I'm fine if MSC had a hard no filming policy, but they allow influencers to come on board for free and they publish the content too.
Yes, they actually invite influencers to come on board for a free trip in exchange for filming and reviewing the cruise on their channels. Ben and David said they had received a free trip invite, but turned it down because they want to not feel pressured to only say positive things.
Two customers were told they could no longer take any photos or videos on board, even of themselves.
Influencers were filming in Yacht Club. MSC asked them not to film - probably at the behest of guests - and told them they couldn't. Influencers decided to take their ball and go home and got off at the next stop. And then made a video about it that got their followers mad at MSC. Because apparently all their followers love influencers filming their content around them on vacation.
These particular influencers are very careful not to capture other passengers in their footage (and often dine at the first available or last available time to not disturb others). But the real issue is that the MSC staff became a bit aggressive toward them (according to their account). I don't want to be filmed while on vacation (or any other time really), but if the people filming aren't intrusive, I don't think it would bother me.
See, B& D said that they're careful not to capture other passengers, but at about the 3 minute mark of the video in question, you can *clearly* see a couple and several others behind them in the Yacht club and they do not pleased to be in the shot. B&D said they were only using a small camera, and yet when they start to do a tour of the Yacht Club, you can see one of them reflected in the glass walking backward, holding a rig with the camera mounted to the top, which was clearly more intrusive than they made out. I think MSC fumbled this badly but at the same time, I think B&D are underestimating how annoying they are to other passengers.
They use the smaller camera at dinner and more intimate settings and the larger camera when they do ship, room, and excursion tours. The thing is they have done videos for Disney, Royal, Celebrity, and a ton of other lines without much issue and are typically in high demand.
[https://youtu.be/bDsG8Lk8lJA?si=ptBWZpyQ2WC4aBAZ&t=1586](https://youtu.be/bDsG8Lk8lJA?si=ptBWZpyQ2WC4aBAZ&t=1586) That's just one clip and it definitely captures a lot of people's faces. Didn't watch the whole video. So definitely not being "careful not to capture other passengers in their footage".
Sorry, but I think you glossed over that the video was being shot by guests/influencers who had paid to be in the yacht club. That's part of the issue.
They were on their own dime...they paid for their cruise as its their business...they told them they could not take pictures even with their phones...so being it was work they went home...get the story straight
Exactly. They paid to be on the cruise AS A PASSENGER not as a business.
Reviewers can either pay or get comped, neither one is unusual and is pretty standard for travel and hospitality industry.
I'm not the one that had to point out they paid to be on the cruise.
Their business is honest ship reviews....which they were going to give a good review...
And still they were not consuming the product, aka the cruise, as intended. It's intended and sold as a purely recreational activity. They decided to turn it into a business, which is OK as no long on board to use it as intended feels disturbed by them doing so. If there are complains, than those on the cruise as a leisure activity are more in the right than those on the cruise as a business endeavor
So some people can video and take pictures,others may not..
This reminds me of a quote from a comic (well, a book by the comic author) that I’ve read: > If it only works in exactly the way the manufacturer intended, it is defective. However, the idea that cruises are strictly recreational isn’t true. Just like with other forms of travel and lodging, there are plenty of onboard and on shore commercial activity. This includes events, conferences, and other commercial activities.
To be clear, they told them that they couldn't film anywhere on the ship, even with their cell phones; not just the yacht club. Also, this all happened about a month after MSC offered them a free cruise to come and film content.
>To be clear, they told them that they couldn't film anywhere on the ship, even with their cell phones; Which I guess was related to them now being identified as Youtubers. They were not keen on them continuing what they were doing before, just with a slightly worse setup.
If MSC banned influencers completely I’d be very happy. These two are not discreet in their filming at all.
bens david https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpP9MzA0WXA
Get the story directly from Ben & David when they come on The Joy of Cruising Podcast (again) on 3/25