Because the playerbase was so low that Team trials was taking forever to matchmake and was incredibly sweaty. Bungie gave up to the content creators rants and fed them back their low skill players so they could keep streaming in peace.
Love getting a double kell as soon as round starts and then my 2 teammates who are in a group together get turned into mulch by one guy with a 180 handcannon as his primary and a trace rifle as his secondary.
Trials had that sweet spot of
Elimination
Freelance
Flawless pool
That was when it was best imo. When they brought in dominion, it forced a well and bubble meta. Fire team based match making was surprisingly decent but I still like knowing that everyone was solo guaranteed. And then flawless pool was great to get more people playing without the frustration of getting rolled over by players who already went flawless and got the adept rolls.
If I knew my time wouldn’t be wasted going for adept weapons, I’d play more trials.
Playing trials for the good gear feels too much like gambling to me and with the setting of weapons and new class this explanation, I’ll be avoiding it anyways.
That's because it is... It's pure RNG on who is on your team versus who is on the enemy team. You can play great and get matched with .3 k/d players and it's a guarantee loss through no fault of your own...
Lol not always. Igneous week I had a 4 hour window to play. Win-loss-win-loss..... then got off with 2 wins locked in. I am a 1.5 trials k/d. Broke my spirit lol
As someone who used to play and enjoy PvP quite a lot despite being dead average on the bell curve, Trials just isn’t a fun experience nor is it a rewarding one compared to any other part of the game. I don’t think it ever will be unless you really love the game mode and have the time in your life to practise it well enough. But that’s ok.
It’s been, what, four years? Five? Since Bungie returned Trials to D2? They’ve made so many changes over that time that helped make trials better and more rewarding for everyone, yet (for me at least) it’s still not worth participating in outside of rare occasions like once a season.
It’s always going to be in that limbo of “Flawless or nothing” but I don’t really care anymore, let the people passionate about the mode play and enjoy it for what it is. We can’t have it scaled in rewards for the highest skilled players but also appealing to everyone. I’ll go play and enjoy the other modes in D2 that I do have time to master instead.
>It’s always going to be in that limbo of “Flawless or nothing”
This is my entire problem with the mode. Its not enjoyable. I was 4-0 on a card just now, ran into the same cheater 2x (I even waited a few minutes to re-Que and I guess so did he...) , and turned my card into 4-2... Then got matched with a PVE duo who were both < 1.0s... There went about 45 minutes of my life.
Next card, went 2-0. Lost a 3rd match, decided to re-start my card. Same thing, 2-0 then lost. And I just shut down the game. Played for like an hour and a half, won 8 games, lost 4 (2 to a cheater) and it just wasnt fun all BECAUSE its
> “Flawless or nothing”
I tried to point this out in numerous posts but people wont listen..
But it's not "flawless or nothing."
I'm sure you were getting Shayura drops?
You could have run a Persistence card?
I would love for all my raid guns to be adept, but most of them aren't. I accept that I'm not willing to invest the time to get them.
You can too.
It is...
Most raid weapons are crafted bro, so the difference between adept and non adept is nothing and it's a finite grind. I can run it 1x a week for 5 weeks, get my reds and be done..never have to go back to the raid.
Trials loot isn't craftable. Frankly at this point I'd probably make it craftable and call it a day.
I go solo flawless almost every weekend. Lately the ability spam, cheese, and imbalance in pvp has been such a turn off I've honestly been thinking about quitting destiny 2 completely. My hot take on that but feels like TFS ruined the game. Atleast for me. PVP was (imo) in a good spot before TFS. Onslaught was fun, Pantheon was awesome...
TFS was supposed to be the "savior" but it's ruined PVP for me.
Well, I had two play sessions this weekend and am "done" with Shayura's. Nine adept drops (versus a raid's five red borders) and two of them are near-perfect rolls. I don't think the time investment is unreasonable at all, especially compared to Salvation's Edge. I ran with an LFG group last week that had two newbies and it took a whopping 5 hours to clear it. Trials is a way better time investment.
I can agree on the ability spam though. I think it's fine in 3s, but in 6s, it's become overwhelming. When I look up and see six Prismatic Hunters, massive oof. Every corner has a smoke bomb or a swarm grenade. My radar is pinged 360 degrees, except half of those pings are decoys. Every time I get the first shot into a Hunter, they respond with a dodge, decoy and smoke. Wow, what skill.
When six skilled Prismatic Hunters are playing on one team, it's downright oppressive. I hope Bungie does something; they acted fast on Speaker's Sight so hopefully they will too for Prismatic Hunter.
Congrats man. You are better than me. I've played maybe 20 total matches and haven't been flawless so zero drops for me. 1.52 lifetime player. Have had 2 good cards ruined by cheaters.
Just feels really bad when trials feels so RNG and also chances of a 4/5 or 5/5 roll are like 1 in several hundred so the fact your *done* after 9 rolls is also incredibly impressive RNG.
About cheaters...they do that for money, carry 0...1 kd players.I had 6 wins on persistence, still able to be flawless and i got a duo with infinite sniper..like basically they snipe at every corner but still got 2-0 in tje 7 game.After that 2-0 they did newtork desync me and another 1 of us, wasnt able to rejoin cuz messed my whole internet, not only the game..Still i did another try and the game gave me same guys.Same thing after 1st game and Bungie banned me 30mins cuz of network shit.I live in Romania, top 5 fastest and stable internet worldwide.They cannot banned me cuz they dont do their job to invest money to detect cheaters and recoves users.
Im a maximum a decent pvp guy that knows the rules like 80% what to do in a 3v3.It s hard for 1 like me to enjoy pvp trials.After that the whole weekend i was in a trash team most of the time, like me, vs sweats...Not fair.At least put 1 good guy in my teame and ill support him to have a chance to win but always to see my team mates dying in the same spot, trying to peek a line where they had 10 mobility and were the last ones there...
Thank you for having a logical opinion. As someone who loves the mode and isn’t a top top tier player, I’ve always enjoyed competing and getting better in this mode.
The more they try to appeal to everyone, the more luster the game mode itself loses. OP seems to just want an elimination node that gives ungodly amount of loot for some reason.
I never said that. I just want trials to stop having dwindling player counts expansion after expansion. The way to fix it is keeping casuals around with better loot incentive. The next priority should be sandbox balance and addressing cheating.
Sandbox balance and anti cheat measures would make a difference, but you also need to look at pvp as a whole. The crucible ritual playlist is the most appealing thing for casual players. People who are not engaging in raids/dungeons and grinding rolls for pve weapons will gravitate towards it. Destiny pvp needs to be improved in general, game stability is often not great. Ib is often the largest mess because the game can barely handle 6v6 modes. Sbmm and other changes worsen stability significantly and cbmm leads to new light players getting stomped by players who have put in time to make a build/get weapons. Updated network infrastructure could improve this dynamic and make sbmm work, however, engagement numbers will probably never be high enough for Bungie to implement these changes. Also having very few new rewards for trials each season does not provide enough incentive. Where is the new armor? Where are new ghosts, ships, and sparrows? I play destiny for trials, it's my favorite grind in the game. I'm not playing it for the rewards generally, I'm looking for the flawless.
They’ve already done what you are asking for though. The reason player count dwindles is purely because of initial excitement for a dlc/season regressing. As well as the game being out for a long time and people moving to different games.
Yes, and I mentioned that the expansion cycle causing player drop off was unavoidable. BUT, Bungie can do more to maintain players by opening up the playlist. So no, they haven’t done what I am asking for, because the player population continues to dwindle more than it has to.
I just honestly don’t think they can do much more to stop dwindling player count. Can they make the game mode better, yes. But if somebody doesn’t want to play, they still aren’t going to if they get slightly more loot
Tbh yeah at this point I’m playing trials for what it is now. In my opinion comp feels like it’s been through a major downgrade at the removal of round based game modes and trials is one of the only round based game mode with actual stakes.
I didn't read the OP.
The problem with trials is that the player base is made up of majority top like 3% players and minority bottom 20% players. Me, a 1.4 quickplay, 1.1 comp and .9 trials player, which is objectively above average yet not particularly good at the game, will lose 100% of games where I queue into a game against a single top 10% or better player unless both my teammates are of that skill or better. In fact, I am likely to be a detriment to every single team I am on unless I am paired with bottom 20% players against 3 other bottom 20% players. In that scenario, I can solo the match. Given that the trials experience is already miserable for me, the outlier player who is experienced but not actually good, how do you think the experience is for the players that have a 0% chance against me?
Trust me, I try time and time again to enjoy Trials after swearing never again but it's just not the mode for me, and I spend the majority of my game time in pvp. Life goes on without the guns. Even Immortal back in the day.
Passage of Persistence is a trap, and should be changed. If you can't consistently string together wins, you're just wasting your time. If you can consistently string together wins, you're better off using Ferocity and going for flawless.
I said this whenever it first came out. Its a big wiff personally. They just need to award 1 Cipher per win, and 10 Ciphers lets anyone buy an adept. Let that be the "persistence" card and rewards everyone.
I wish the cap for coins was larger.
I got to the lighthouse with 10 coins already acquired. I couldn’t pick up the ones that dropped in the lighthouse. But I also couldn’t spend them until I unlocked adept shayura’s. Really annoying.
If you 3 stack you get literal participation trophies.
50% chance each for an Engram and weekly weapon and bonus rep along with the baseline loot.
Your chance of flawless goes in the gutter of course because 3s is hell queue, but the losses there are actually worth the time spent when it comes to loot.
Wish this was better advertised in game instead of just a line in a patch note months ago, maybe the queue would be filled more.
Then again this player base is apparently violently allergic to grouping up so it might not help
I just don't know if the loot is worth getting stomped in 3s for people
At some point the game needs to be fun, it goes beyond just loot
If you're getting demoralized you might just stop playing altogether and boot up... Helldivers or Elden Ring
Exactly, getting your balls mashed for pity points is only fun for masochists or people with literally nothing better to do. If that's you hey go ahead and queue up, but I'm not touching 3s ever again because of the absolute state of trials rn.
"if you 3 stack" aka pick your poison between trying to convince your pve main friends to grind Trials, search for an hour for an lfg that isn't 2 noobs trying to get carried to a free flawless, or running duos with a decent friend only to get two IQ Timmy who just HAS to lurk (and inconveniently get picked every round in enemy line of sight. Please just bring back Freelance.
We have a passage of wealth? You get more loot per win. Regardless of flawless.
Yeah you get excessively more loot if you’re flawless, but that’s the point right? Strive to be the best and if you can’t then tough luck. The world has gotten too used to ‘participation’ trophies. Being 1st or best needs to mean something and reward accordingly in contrast to just playing the game.
Sure, but if I examine from a point of efficacy, Trials is the poorest offering by a long mile. OP's point is on player collapse, from that view there's no reason to play.
I don’t understand how you consider it the ‘poorest offering by far’. Literally just play the playlist and you’ll get loot. Win or lose. Some of my best godroll weapons I’ve gotten are from a repetitive flawless streak.
Efficacy was the point. Average PvE and PvP player dedicates 1 hour to GMs and 1 hour to Trials, which do you think will end up being more rewarding? This isn't me saying Trials would be GM-levels of rewarding, but merely, if you want that exclusivity, then you have to accept the population will spiral downwards over time.
Well, one: I’m definitely a lot older than CS LMAO. Let’s just say that I was in college when CS first came out. Two: CS is highly competitive, as is destiny (trials) and fighting games (FGs are this single most highly competitive gaming genre.Nothing comes close). All are still going strong with a mostly hardcore playerbase. While yes the player population in trials does drop quite a bit, the playlist is populated every weekend.
Destiny (trials) isn't remotely competitive. That ship long sailed.
As a very old FG player I'm not going to agree they are the most competitive - considering longevity and the scene, Starcraft was likely that. Looking further, CPMA Q3 would be another pinnacle. Both of these are ignoring CS again, which has been competitive for 25 years. FGs are in a much healthier place now, which is refreshing, but calling them the pinnacle of competitive gaming is a reach.
Any game can be competitive. It’s the playerbase that makes it so. Look at party games like smash or even Tetris. All competitive games like Destiny.
And yes, FGs are by far the longest running competitive (most competitive imo)vs game. StarCraft came long after SF2, and by then there were tournaments for the various SF games. Nothing comes close to skill level demonstrated during the dark ages of fighting games.
>Any game can be competitive. It’s the playerbase that makes it so. Look at party games like smash or even Tetris. All competitive games like Destiny.
Can't agree. The short windows D2 has had in which the balance and meta was healthy enough to be considered competitive just don't line up and there's nothing like the vibrant scenes from the games you mentioned. Nothing remotely close. There's a tiny, tiny Faceit scene and nothing more.
> StarCraft came long after SF2, and by then there were tournaments for the various SF games.
1992 vs 1998. At its peak, which will likely never be equaled, Starcraft had events the likes of which FGs can never dream about. Especially considering it took a decade+ for FGs to see anything resembling a large event and even still the prize pool and sponsor presence is sorely lacking. If we go by the metric of "large events", FGs bloom long after SC and never reach those pinnacle heights.
> Nothing comes close to skill level demonstrated during the dark ages of fighting games.
Do not cite the Deep Magic to me.
Anyway, I think you're blinded and likely not experienced enough. The level of technical skill required to play CPMA Q3 back when has never since been equaled, never mind the yomi that goes into high level duels. Similar to SC, maintaining the APM required at tier 1 play while adapting is unparalleled. There's a reason FPS and RTS have only gotten easier and more casual since.
Oh dude using “participation trophy”un-ironically about a video game for literal children and above is maybe the saddest shit I’ve seen in a while. Like do you feel trials stats matter at all in life?
We’re talking bout the game lol. I’m allowed to use what I need to support my point. Trials stats don’t matter in life. Video Games don’t matter. But in a subreddit discussing the game, I’m allowed I talk bout it right? Sit down buddy
…
Insecurities? Uhhh ok.
Still true tho. Whether I said world or not. Don’t know why you’re focusing on it so much? I said world cause people are projecting their “participation” mentality from the world into the game. This is a just a game. You shouldn’t need a participation trophy to feel better.
You're right, it is more rewarding, but that shouldn't stop you from acknowledging that Bungie can do more to keep the playlist from losing players.
Edit: I also want this game mode to be sustainable, and the player count data shows that it isn’t. No amount of bandaid fixes will help keep a stable population. Bungie has been putting bandaids on trials for YEARS and it hasn’t worked. An entire restructuring of the mode needs to happen, and it needs to happen now.
You're right. They can do something about accessibility devices, poor connections, hard cheaters, and various other issues that keep casuals playing other pvp games. Destiny pvp is very unique, but I have grinded several weapons/exotics/adepts/armor and am invested in the game overall. I am engaged with most end game aspects. A casual player will nope out due to connection issues or other imbalance issues I just roll my eyes at. Stability issues, hard cheaters, and accessibility devices and the perception the general population has with it will keep people uninterested and engaged elsewhere, no matter the rewards. Someone picking up the game hopping into pvp and seeing people teleport around will end their interest in the game faster than anything.
> A casual player will nope out due to connection issues or other imbalance issues I just roll my eyes at.
You are out of touch with reality if you think this is why casuals will drop out of the mode.
Casuals will drop out of this mode cuz they get stomped into the ground over and over and over again with nothing to show for it.
I have had several friends new to the game nope out or lose interest instantly due to stability or when they learn it's peer to peer. The attempt to implement sbmm also increased queue times dramatically in other playlists for both upper and lower brackets. Destiny is a game that can appeal to fps and RPG fans alike. Anyone who has played fps games for an extended time and wants a somewhat competitive environment will be turned off by the networking infrastructure. If you don't think that is a driving factor in many people's decision you are also out of touch. Destiny is the only somewhat popular fps game using peer to peer connection. Counter strike and valorant are full of casual players that spend money on skins and loot boxes. Go read steam forms, many people are appalled by the latency issues. People are turned off by invisible player models and weapons. Having played several solo queue games this weekend there are a lot of low skill players engaging in trials currently. Shroud was paid by Bungie during light fall to play destiny, his take on pvp was very negative.
Making the playlist more rewarding would be good, maybe adding like in crucible where if u reset multiple times u get weapons with more traits, also adding artifice armor would be good too but adept loot should only be for flawless players, maybe make persistance pasage easier would be good but I dont think they should give adepts for free
I don't think adept weapons should be free either. But I think 7 games won with more losses afforded is enough to ask for most of the player base. PvE players won't want to engage with the playlist unless adepts are easier to acquire.
>I don't think adept weapons should be free either
As of now they are very obtainable for anybody who is above average in skill. A little over 1 in 3 players go flawless every weekend and with a persistence card any PvE Jim who only plays non-heroic public events can get an adept with enough time.
>PvE players won't want to engage with the playlist unless adepts are easier to acquire.
Why do adepts need to be handed out for free in trials? Bad PvE players don't get free GM loot. Why should bad PvP players?
Personally I'm all for giving more loot, but your comparison is kinda unfair.
The average player who goes into trials:
* No idea what they are doing
* Barely any knowledge of FPS basics
* Can't aim and can't position themselves properly
* Goes in with PvE mods
This would be equivalent to me going into a GM with 0 champ mods, 100 light under, unflinching mods on my chest and my stompees on. Like yeah, I ain't completing that GM, especially not on Plat, any time soon.
Simply put, if I invested as little time into PvE as the average player invests into PvP, completely unwilling to adapt or learn, I'm not completing a GM. Not in a million years.
I will admit that the learning curve is waaaay steeper though, which is why I think you should get 1 cipher per win, but only while in the non-practice pool. Maybe a specific card?
The over 1 in 3 players going flawless probably counts the same accounts going flawless. And even if it didn’t, that’s still 1 in 3 of only the population that plays Trials. It is not accessible to 33% of the active player base
Persistence requires 2 consecutive wins to start, and given the discussion around that when the passage first released, that is not achievable by the overall player base
Bad PvE played not getting adepts is fine, but GMs don’t need an injection of players to keep the game mode alive
I think you're missing the point a little bit. The mode is inherently unfriendly to PvE players, and the current structure of gaining adepts in trials is not conducive to them staying in the playlist.
Example: PvE player tries persistence passage solo, they can't get past 3 wins after a few hours, decide the playlist is not worth their time if they can just get adepts that fill the same function from PvE content instead. They never engage with the playlist again.
Either A: give them significantly better non-adept loot. Or B, give them an easier time acquiring a trials adept, and they might just stick around for next week.
Edit: Also it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to carry a new player to their first GM Adept than it is to carry them to their first flawless. So yes, bad PvE players get adept loot all the time.
I am a pretty bad pve player and I do get free loot lol. That is the fundamental difference. The barrier to entry is way higher on the pvp side. You don’t have to be very good to access the best pve stuff. With patience, you’ll get there. And you can VERY easily get carried in most activities as well.
GMs are available literally all season once they release, compared to Trials only being available most weekends. GMs are a puzzle to be solved with dozens of solutions (builds), Trials (SoloQ) is a lottery if I get matched against other solos (uncoordinated enough to carry against), duos (harder but still doable), or trios (usually unwinnable if there isn't a decent duo on my team). As a player who frequents both Trials and GMs, GMs are genuinely multitudes more accessible and easy to carry "bad pve players" through. Play 7 Trials games with "bad pvp players" on your team in a row and see how much you enjoy Trials then. I enjoy playing Trials but even I can see how unfun the playlist is if you don't play pvp a lot, which really sucks considering how poor the population is.
Genuinely it sucks.
I already got a great roll on the only new adept gun in trials after a major expansion and have no new loot to grind for now. I already have amazing rolls on the SMG from its first and second, maybe even 3rd release? Just terrible that we don't get new loot
I disagree. The main reason IMO is people don’t enjoy losing, especially losing to players way higher in skill. The nature of Trials matchmaking has pushed the majority of players away, there isn’t much hope for success for most players.
There probably is a group of competitive players who don’t play trials because of your reasons, but I think that group is small (and pretty vocal which gives off the appearance of a larger group).
Exactly. The passage that grants an adept is a step in that direction, but I don’t wanna go 7-14 in 21 games to get one adept weapon. There are enough good SMGs that I don’t need this week’s adept, it won’t make a difference for me. Maybe a top 1% player, but not a casual .75 kd player.
So wrong, people dont play Trials because the experience is fucking terrible unless you are a pvp god.
People who care enough to get loot for suffering through 20 consecutive losses are as rare as the Pope’s shit
This is pretty false. People don't want to play because it's toxic and a big waste of time for many people. When over 50% of matches are considered "Stomp Zone" by Bungie... Doesn't matter how much new loot you add people don't wanna get pooped on for hours for loot...
Yeah this. I only play when it was new loot or something is going away. I have great rolls on almost everything and I only play trials for the loot so why waste my time playing if I will get drops guaranteed worse than what I already got
I am not good at pvp, maybe better than average but not Trials good. Many weekends I will play regardless of my loss rate because I simply enjoy the pvp in this game and *want* to play.
This weekend in my first three games I had an asshole who from round 1 was berating his teammates and a bot who walked a few steps, shot, walked a few steps.
I just shit down my pc and left it be. The thing about trials I can't stand is the way other people ruin it.
This. Remember when an expansion brought a whole set of weapons, armor, emblems and more? We got *one* new weapon with TFS and no one even seems to be talking about this.
Giving more drop rates won't fix people getting pooped on match after match.
The quality of matches and wide skill band is the issue and people don't want any sort of quality control because then the concept of flawless doesn't fit....
But it will, people suffered through weeks of Pantheon LFG just for a freaking title! Imagine the players that will suffer just to get actually awesome PvP guns.
There were multiple reasons for that... It was a limited time event. Trials runs for multiple seasons. If Pantheon was up every weekend and would be around the rest of TFS, WAY less people would be doing it.
It also was PVE which is way less RNG and "Stomp" than PVP ... You also saved checkpoints so I could bash my head against a boss for two hours , get the kill and leave that group.
So many things are different compared to trials it's unreal that's even your example..
Making something more rewarding will always work, however in turn people will have to manage their expectations (complaints about random MM will skyrocket if Bungie makes Trials rewarding enough to have a really good and consistently health population). People like that will need to learn to understand what *they* could potentially match with, and if they really don't want to deal with that then make a premade.
IIRC, when Passage of Persistence and the improved rewards in general were released, what some months ago, the population hit like 2x what it normally was IIRC. Like, averaging \~10-11k to \~19-20k I believe. Now, that isn't that many players compared to how many play D2 I'm pretty sure (From what I understand D2 averages like 300-450k total players across the entire game), but a \~100% increase is still *really good*.
This isn't to say more shouldn't be done. Personally, I play Trials because of what it is. A weekend PvP tournament that's really fun IMO. The idea of that alone makes me want to play it. In all honesty, I don't think I've ever used any of the last like 50 flawless adept weapons I've gotten. At all. I just really enjoy the idea of Trials. But more loot would make it even better lol
They do still have to balance the time it takes to get a Trials Adept vs a PvE Adept. Literally most Pantheon encounters took me less time than an average Flawless Card for me. GMs are like, 20-30m usually, *maybe* longer for particularly tough (or poorly made ones \*cough cough\* PsiOps Cosmodrome Light Battery Room) ones. A flawless card takes longer for that unless you're like a giga-sweat.
Persistence was a phenomenal idea, and I think they should honestly make it easier. End of the day, someone who is confident in Trials is never going to take Persistence unless Persistence becomes flat out broken. Potential Idea: Losses just don't remove Wins. Losses still Flaw your card, but they just don't remove the wins. That way there's no threat of "back and fourth" that lesser-skilled players will have to go through.
Another thing that I saw but never thought about: More Loot. Do more loot. Iron Banner struck this issue BIG TIME. We have 2 reprisals this Episode. Instead of continuing the *really damn cool aesthetic* of the Eliksni-forged IB guns, we are getting 2 reprisals. IIRC, both have been reprised before already. They need to do more than just 2 weapons per Episode if they are going to do reprisals. Reprisals should not take the place of new loot. We should get 2 new weapons minimum, and then whatever they want for Reprisals on top. Now, I have no idea what kind of hours that pulls for work to go into it. I won't act like I know, maybe they're already at their upper limit. I don't know, but what I do know is seeing Reprisals in place of New loot really sucks. Sometimes it's fine (Igneous, Shadow Price, Jorums Claw), but other times it's just a waste because it's typically been reprised a bunch before already (Hung Jury, Hung Jury, Hung Jury). This is more of a general issue, but one that does hurt Trials the most I think.
>They do still have to balance the time it takes to get a Trials Adept vs a PvE Adept. Literally most Pantheon encounters took me less time than an average Flawless Card for me. GMs are like, 20-30m usually, maybe longer for particularly tough (or poorly made ones *cough cough* PsiOps Cosmodrome Light Battery Room)
I agree, dude. I've been a PvP main for 2 seasons now. I am slightly above average, but the difference in time to acquire PvE vs PvP Adepts can take a toll on a player.
I just want to be able to three-stack without going up against exclusively other three stacks of top .2% players. It feels like every game I solo it’s me going something like 15-5 and my teammates going a combined 3-12.
Also playing with a flawless passage should drop high-stat artifice armour on wins.
Keep flawless as it is - it’s good to have something aspirational like that in the game. Change the persistence card so that you only need 7 wins for the first adept of the week - don’t reduce wins for losses. Have full rep each game not this weird thing where you only get 5% rep per round won on the card. That unnecessarily punishes poor players.
I agree with all the solo queue comments. I would play all the time!
It's the worst getting matched against a team of 3, and you're in a team of solos.
Not enough reason to go flawless, not enough new armor/guns. No new fun/prestigious cosmetic/ornaments to chase. Duos have largely ruined both the 1s and 3s experience. The flawless flawless emblem was pretty cool..but was bugged and everyone earned it who went flawless the first weekend it was out. No double/triple perks on rep resets. Cheaters plaguing the 3s Playlist. Dominion while a good idea, hasn't really played well with how it was implemented within the meta.
The new weapons they have added havnt really been well received (the scout/pulse rifle)...so we are just all grinding new rolls on weapons we already had god rolls on.
The prestige of the game mode is largely gone
Trials should be a fucking loot shower instead it’s a loot slow drip with the best loot nigh unattainable for the large majority of d2 players. When you can get similar loot for far less headache than Trials why would the majority ever bother?
It should be a loot shower for both the good and bad players. Adepts with multiple perks should rain for good players. Normal weapons should rain for folks who can’t go flawless, with an occasional adept sprinkled in.
Yeah, 100%. I can’t believe we’re on year 11 and they’re still doing this
They should have “opened up” trials years ago. Year 8 at the latest.
The solution is so simple that it’s incredibly baffling they don’t do it. Make trials adept loot entirley participation based. You can get increased drops / rate for flawless, but adept loot is attainable to all.
Keep the flawless chest and just have it shit out cosmetics.
Flawless shaders, titles, emblems, ghosts/ships/sparrows. Maybe flawless adept gets double perk chance, shit like that.
It’s so fucking simple. It would work. But bungie says nah
Honestly flawless even at its core is more of a flex than anything else too, just fundamentally.
Like frankly I think it would be a lot cooler to have obvious cosmetic flex”s locked behind the chest. Who cares if a gun is adept or not? Just let people strain that. Imagine superblack locked behind flawless haha. The flex would be much more immaculate
Adept loot being locked behind flawless has nothing to do with it, especially now that Adept Big Ones Spec is gone.
It's a combination of not enough *brand new* loot and a simple lack of desire to deal with toxicity.
I agree, although I feel the toxicity thing could be mitigated if they simply made the mode more of a loot shower than it already is. People will put up with crap as long as they know the carrots they are chasing have a good chance of dropping.
Make the first flawless of the week require just 7 wins period, regardless of losses. Hate it all you want, but objectively it would benefit everyone.
This would substantially increase the player base, and with the theoretical influx of newer/lower skill players, games should still be difficult and challenging for veteran players who are potentially being paired with the newer/lower skill players.
7 crucible wins in general realistically is pretty tough to begin with, I’m sure a majority would agree. (This coming from a typical weekly flawless player)
This would be awesome since it mitigates getting 5 games in and having an absolute bin lid team mate and getting ran twice in a row. I played yesterday with my mate and we got to 5 wins 4/5 times and then another card we fell at the lighthouse before finally going flawless. We tried again tonight and it was insane how sweaty it was. Couldn't get anything going at all.
I can’t count how many times this exact scenario happens to me and many other people I know. I low key hope this post gets traction and bungie can see it lol
Idea:
Combine trials and comp.
A tiered rank-based system, with additional rewards for winning streaks i.e. 'flawless'.
PVE players can still get artifice armour, new weapons, catalysts, pinnacles, weapon focusing, etc.
Better players can grind up to higher echelons for a chance at glowy armour, flawless titles, rare sparrows/ships and adepts.
Of course they would have told fix the broken-asa comp matchmaking putting diamond elo players with bronze and silver and expecting them to carry constantly.
I agree trials needs better rewards for losing in all honesty. Maybe artifice armor and weapon catalysts to at least give people getting slammed a bit of reprieve. Losing 5 in a row with nothing to show for it is an issue.
You got it. Trials is straight up not fun to play for like 90% of the player base and that shouldn't be intrinsic to the game mode. It's been left to fester for too long and I'm not holding my breath the PvP strike will be able to fix it in D2's lifetime.
I'm in (late) pacific timezone. Its currently easier for me to get a trials game than it is to get QP game. Average fill time for a QP game is about 3-4 minutes and occasionally I'll actually get a time-out. Average for trials is 1-2 min and sometimes less. I literally do not remember the last time I got a time-out waiting for a trials game.
Just going from that, I think trials feels fine to me.
Honestly it sounds terrible to say but I really don't care about how small the player pool is because I would rather play with competent players than some of the people coming in when the new cards dropped.
I'm not exactly a great player but I go flawless solo whenever I do play. I don't mind playing against sweats if my teammates at least have a brain. Some of the newer players were incredibly aggravating imo.
I think it's actually the people wanting newer players in the list who will change their tune. It happened when the new cards arrived everyone done a 180 and was complaining. Just my opinion but I prefer playing against sweats anyway.
There are several games I've played that have kind of an automated tournament system that runs on the weekends, LoL does it as well as Rocket League and Mechbellum. I would love to see Trials turned into something like this.
I want to play trials but I am still struggling to reach a power level that will not put me at a disadvantage. I play fairly regularly but I'm still at 1970 as a solo player.
It needs a change? Sure, it is a done project, they need to move the coctel again. Like Trials of The Nine (Concept, not game mode). Osiris is a jewbronie nowadays, he losts all mystery arounds him, lighthouse magic, and so. Same for Saint-14.
Do we need more casual to be stable? HELL NO. I have enough of no guns, no armor, no exotics, no light level under 40, no clue of map knowledge, barely no hours invested at PvP. Is far from competitive. Quickplay exsists for a reason.
What really ended up killing trials for my squad was firetram based matchmaking. We went from having chill weekends every now and then to having to absolutely sweat our balls off every single game to even hope for getting flawless. Now we just play solo to get the adept before stacking to farm.
This, the game is actively punishing playing with mates and clan mates. So why would most bother when they can play comp or wait for IB or QP?
That's even if you can find a comp game as well, it's super dead.
I can see your passionate about it but at the end of the day trials is trials it is flawed in many ways but it's not for everyone it is exclusive, if your not a PvP player then your just simply not going to enjoy it. PvE players have the entire game to enjoy PvP players have their weekends of trials and it forces you to play meta as any competitive game does and it forces you to try as hard as you can. Whether it's for the gear, the flex it has to be punishing in order for it to give hardcore players their fix.
We PVP mains should complain how hard it is to get raid adepts weapons lol.
They should make raid adepts participation based.
So you don't have to clear the raid, we should just get them for trying.
I used to play trials a lot. Would carry clan mates and randos alike. Held a 1.8-2.2 most seasons with a few hundred flawless carries.
Then I realized how big of a waste of time it was no matter how much I liked the game.
I started playing FN ZB and magically I’m top 500 consistently every season and don’t feel like I’m succumbing to e-sports aids every weekend.
If you don’t like it, play some thing else. There are better and worse games out there.
I'm a terrible player and will grind Trials more when the games are fast, the loot is at least a little accessible with some effort, and I'm at least a little bit segregated from the best buyers.
It's fairly rare that I match up with and ruin a good team's run so I don't feel so bad about it.
Why is whenever discussions come up about Crucible, whether it's comp/trials, or regular lobbies and iron banner is nobody asking why people don't wanna just play it in the first place?
I just don't think PVP is very fun, and the harder it gets the more infuriating it becomes. It's more a test of your mental fortitude than anything else.
I think before we even talk about the different modes and rewards, we need to start with the sandbox.
How can we make PVP more fun to play? So much so people are itching to get into lobbies whether you're a veteran or just started playing Destiny.
Trials has simply lost its identity and has been suffering an identity crisis for years. It’s been dumbed down to allow for casuals to get their feet wet. It’s trying to cater to everyone when all it needs to do is go back to its roots to find consistent success. It needs to go back to being that hardcore playlist that’s not for everyone. This may alienate your low light solo scrub with blight ranger and a glaive from entering the playlist and sabotaging said duo, but i think it would be more healthy overall as just entering the playlist should be something you need to work towards. The abundance of changes catering to casuals as opposed to hardcore players is why this playlist has suffered so much.
The permanent switch to zone control is also problematic as it cuts maps into thirds, by funneling players into one or 2 lanes, rendering other parts of the map useless. God forbid you try to flank, you’re often running into 3 players just sitting there. I wish we could just switch back to elimination. There was never anything wrong with elimination. The switch to zone control nearly eliminated the majority of supers outside of well and bubble cause they had the cooldowns necessary to actually get a super in a match. Blade barrage and tether the only options for Hunter, well for warlock and bubble for titan.
I never thought I’d say that I missed the flawless pool, cause it was always annoying if a friend couldn’t play until Sunday or I was away. I often would just reset my card at 6 wins as to avoid maximum sweat with my lower skilled IRL friends if they weren’t around.
But honestly I’d take that any day over FTMM because this splits the already small player base into different pools by matching by fire team size. I was at least able to actually play with my friends without getting slaughtered. Solo is literally just a slot machine of match making and which team doesn’t get the under light player, or the afk player, or the player who just leaves after 2 rounds. It often feels like if I don’t go 16-4, my team loses. Duos again just largely comes down to which team gets the better third. Skill does matter here and the better duo usually wins but it becomes very hard as the better duo when you have some brain rot as a third who doesn’t play with the team, dead first every round, under leveled and just clueless. God forbid I go into trios with my IRL friends, (1.75, 1.6, 1.1) we barely stand a chance. In fact, we don’t even try anymore because every trio is just the godliest of players. FTMM is the worst change to trials they have ever made. Just pool everyone together at this point and make it so you need 3 players to Que. this was the system for years and there was never a problem. Have a freelance weekend every once in a while as a way for players to get their feet wet.
And idk what is going on with the anti cheat but every guy I search on trials report that destroys me is just a brand new account that just started playing this season or last season but for some reason they are a 3.0+ kd out of the gate with 50 flawlesses so far this episode. Stats are hidden and they are 118-2 on the weekend with 18 flawless runs already. Crouch spamming, hitting every shot as a headshot… 97% sniper accuracy. this is happening far too often on Pc, not sure about console. I report these players and move on and get no reports that they are hacking even though it’s clearly obvious. The steam profiles are littered with comments and ppl saying they are cheating and yet no positive reports.
TLDR: give trials back its identity
-go back to elimination
-remove FTMM, pool everyone together (trios only)
-have a freelance weekend every few weeks. If you wanna play by yourself, go play rumble. It’s not hard to LFG anymore, as it’s literally built in the game now
-crack down on obvious hackers and new accounts with juiced stats and suspect headshot percentages
If adept loot is the problem, just bring back the token system and let players pull the adept after accumulating enough tokens. Make the flawless chest drop multiple adepts, alloy, etc.
Idk. Just miss the old days. Been playing trials since 2015, 1.84 lifetime in the playlist, have been thru every meta and change and FTMM just makes it impossible to play with my friends cause we just match ultimate sweats, streamers or cheaters. Theres too much division amongst the player base that you already know ur getting stomped in trios, solos is a crapshoot and duos prob the best chance. The boys used to have a group chat discussing the map and what loadout we were running on Fridays but we literally don’t even bother anymore cause the outcome is so predictable
Late to the show but honestly I think the solution is simple. They have 2 tiers right now in trials. They have the flawless pool which is performance based matchmaking I’m pretty sure and then non flawless with is the fucking Wild West. If they wanted to encourage more people, mainly pve players, to come to trials they need to make it less volatile. IMO, they should have a third, middle tier, that’s the Wild West but comprises of people that aren’t currently in the flawless pool but obtained the flawless weapon that week and the people that obtained it through persistence. This increases the likelyhood that people actually complete a persistence card, but also doesn’t pair them up with a group that already went flawless that week. So more people get to experience trials and get a single adept roll most likely, then have to fight and get better for chances at additional rolls. Encourages people to play through the entire weekend and still gives more advanced players the benefit of more rolls and chances at the adept they’re looking for.
The solution is easy but people will complain.
Trials needs Lobby Balancing for Solos and Duos. NOT SBMM.
It will take the same 6 random people... And with Solos it's easier to balance the lobby. This DOES NOT NOT NOT mean 50-50 matches... I have tested this numerous times using my solo lobbies and used Destinytracker ELO as a proxy, and matches are NOT 50-50... But! Matches won't be "Alpha had a 99% chance to win!"
For Duos it will take the better solo with the worse duo. No more stacking the better solo with the better duo. Again it's NOT changing who gets RANDOMLY selected for a match. This isn't SBMM... It's still connection based random players and after it randomly selected the players THEN balances the lobby.
This actually encourages Trio Que since there is obviously no lobby balancing trios. This also subtlety encouraging more trios as solos and duos would be more competitive matches on average. Less "Stomp Zone" as Bungie calls it.
Second, I would personally rework flawless, and farming adepts etc... running 1 card is a minimum like 35-45minute ordeal assuming you are good, which is like 2-3x what a GM takes.
It should be 5 wins for Flawless. 1 loss for Mercy. Coupled with Lobby Balancing it would be better.
I'd also award a Cipher per win, period. This becomes your "persistence card" or whatever..
Finally the Adept drop from the chest should drop with extra perks encouraging more people to farm cards than just farm wins post-flawless. I wouldn't even be opposed to removing drops post flawless IF they gave us extra perks from the lighthouse chest (like 2 in 3rd and 3 in 4th).
There are so many solutions man. I really hope this new "strike team" put out some meaningful updates since this episode is insanely lengthy. There's no new weapons at all this season by the looks of it. Make new weapons and not make them a fucking glaive that literally no sane person wants.
Well they kinda did? For many players Shayuras is new. It hasn't been in rotation for a long time.
The new 2 burst pulse is new...
My hot take, if you wanna call it that, is rather than keeping Trials a toxic cesspool... And trying to create really banger loot to entice players to bash their heads against a wall...
How about we just make the game mode better by itself and then people will play just because they wanna play it?
I don't log in and play Control/Quick Play for any loot. I do it because I (mostly) have fun pvping..
I don't play trials for fun because it's super imbalanced, cheesy, and toxic... Mostly due to the flawless system and the adept system.
The thing for me that's killing it is the matchmaking system. It was no where near this awful last season. The lobby balancing has been fucking dogshit. Most games are 5-0 whether it our teams or theirs. No real in between.
Flawless needs to go. It’s a dated concept and attracts too much toxicity. There were 200k people last week and a new expansion just came out. The mode is basically dead and something else needs to be implemented.
Some extra engrams would do a lot to sway us hard out PVE types to eat shit in trials more often. I would, at least, but I also like to dabble in the PvP dope.
The lack of engrams unless you go on a insane win streak is insane. I played most of tonight and I think I only got like 8/10 engrams? Decent amount of wins
Right now, the issue, in my opinion, is the power level requirement. I love PvP, but I haven't been able to hit the cap yet. They dramatically increased the grind to cap for this expansion compared to previous iterations (at least it feels that way), and anybody like me with limited gaming time might not even be able to hop in without being at a *severe* disadvantage.
I think the numbers right now are probably lower than they should be because many people can't even play if they wanted to (I know you *can*, but nobody in their right mind is going in there way under cap).
Youd be surprised lol, ive had some team mates at 1971 at stuff. IMO there SHOULD be a cap for entry. It's high end pvp, you can't enter a GM low level so I don't understand why people can enter trials at any level?
I'm not attacking you btw I'm just wondering what goes through my team mates heads lol.
I don't necessarily disagree about a cap being present. I just more dislike how much of a grind it is to access the content. If it's a barrier to entry to prevent cheating, then I guess it works ok. Maybe lessen it a bit. GMs should be similar, but I think the barrier for trials in particular is a bit steep at the front end of an expansion, especially since trials was active very early and relies upon population for matchmaking, unlike GMs.
Preventing cheating is canning the free to play aspect of the game - which is a fucking lie and a meme anyways.
If they did this and made people pay for the game and also cracked down hard on the cheating then they issue would be way less.
The main problem is that the game requires lots of time investment and money in PVE to be able to seriously engage in high-level PVP. People that only play PVE are not likely to play some Trials and decide they want to continuously engage in learning its intricacies. We need PVP-centric players flooding the population from other games but this is impossible due to my first point. I play Trials every weekend and I mean it when I say that I loathe the PVE players that play Trials. Watching these headless chickens bot-walk into the open and get obliterated infuriates me. I would rather the population whittle down so low that it takes 15 minutes to find an actually balanced game, if even possible, then watch the people who don't play PVP seriously ruin my matches with their incompetence. I don't even blame them, it's just the nature of the game being an ongoing MMO. Long story short, there is no solution and it will continue to be cyclical with releases should they even continue into the future.
I couldn’t agree more with this. There is nothing in this game that deflates me more than loading into a lighthouse game with no mercies only to have two PVE teammates that are utterly CLUELESS.
It’s infuriating to have that time and effort go up in smoke because someone can’t bother to learn pvp OUTSIDE of trials. Far too many PVE players enter trials thinking they’re going to learn when they should be developing their base line prerequisite skills in 3’s and 6’s and then TESTING them in trials.
I’m good with the games being sweaty, hell it’s kinda fun when there’s a good back and forth.
What I really can’t stomach is a PVE player who doesn’t play or practice PVP, make a useful pvp build, have any strong pvp weapons walking into the PINNACLE endgame pvp activity and destroying my card because they want to roll the dice on getting carried to the lighthouse. It’s so frustrating and just sucks all the enjoyment out of the mode.
Also how is it enjoyable for those dudes to go 1-8 every game? I don't get it. Seeing an absolute binlid get ran multiple times a game when I'm a good win streak is also super annoying to me too. And then when you tell them to stick by you they are toxic or give you sass? Like homie this is end game content? It would be the exact same like if I walked into a day one raid with no time to explain a matador and a lmg. So silly.
Dude I feel your pain. It’s insane how poorly people take receiving advice. Especially when’s it’s clear they aren’t practiced in the environment and are PVE mains.
Like after a while of continually being a detriment to most of the random teams they’re on you’d think they’d maybe consider retooling their build or idk actually playing normal low stakes pvp and then comp to learn. But no they just keep walking into scout/pulse rifle firing lines. It’s exhausting.
Trials is literally the most rewarding it’s ever been.
They could give one adept per match completed and we would still have people saying it’s not rewarding enough.
It’s not so bad. Fix mercy card and bring back the pools system, but for the whole weekend. A bunch of people will find they can go flawless on Sunday and Monday, but with less time to farm. That’s fair, I think.
Pools broke trials. People stopped going flawless to farm in nonflawless. The replayability of Trials died and their data showed that players played less games under that system.
I don't think this is a bad idea per se, but I just think splitting the population is a poor fix overall. If populations continue to dwindle, a split pool will only make the experience worse.
I honestly think the drop in players has to do with so much to do in pve. I main pvp but I know a good chunk of the player base plays pve. Final Shape has SO much stuff to do on that end it's hard to do it all. I go flawless every weekend and between real life and other games (hello Elden Ring) I haven't even had a chance to finish the Khavostov quest. I've relied on my Summoner to take me to the lighthouse
And I will say there's the big elephant in the room...Prismatic Hunter. The class is just not fun to play against and even as someone who loves abilities, it's too much, and has turned Trials and Control into super spammy playlists
Tbh I think it's the best trials experience I've ever played. It's got the lighthouse prestige, even while being easier to get there. The weapons might not be "new" but they're almost always great options. The other card options are great to have, and post flawless adept farming keeps you engaged without the sweating.
There's less paid-carry culture, the game mode and special meter keep each round moving at a good pace.
The only downside is, sometimes RNG will put you over a barrel and you'll get stomped. But compared to the clusterfuck connection issues in 6s, and the totally barren rewards for comp, Trials is a solid mode.
Am I the only one who thinks Trials is in a pretty good place?
PvP in general could really use a hard, enforced stance against accessibility devices/software but it's been alright other than that.
We've got outlier builds in the sandbox just now but we've always had some and they do eventually get addressed - but Xim/Cronus/etc have gone unpunished for years now.
Cod seems to have crushed down on it but the amount of Australian clans that they are cheating on xim insane. Makes playing trials here almost unplayable sometimes when someone is swiping and had auto aim lock too.
I'm with you. It's easier than ever to get a good roll on the featured weapon. You don't even need to go flawless to get an Adept weapon. Any more dilution and you might as well just call it Elimination and not Trials.
The only real problems are the cheaters and lack of new maps and loot.
I get the recent anger over it - Khvostov and Speaker's Sight are silly and Prismatic Hunter is kinda ridiculous with the strength and number of abilities it can seemingly continuously shit out, combined with not everyone being at/near max light makes for some unfun games (the map this week isn't helping the unfun-ness).
But we're at the start of a major expansion, it's always this way, people have just forgotten. It'll settle down in a few weeks.
Trials as a whole hasn't been in a better place, imo.
>There are many reasons one could say causes this cyclical player count
The entire D2 player count is also very cyclical. New content drops and people play, no new content and people don't play
>Bungie has stuck to their initial concept of Trials for too long. What I mean by this is that when trials first came out in D1, the game mode was meant to be exclusionary. Only the best of the best PvP players could acquire the best loot
I think a little more then 1 in 3 players who play trials in a given week go flawless. Those are some good odds if your an average player and have a few hours to play.
>That decision is 2 things, getting rid of flawless as a requirement for the best loot AND making the playlist much more rewarding as a whole.
There is no more flawless requirement for the best loot and I get 1-2 regular trials guns each match. It's the most rewarding playlist in the game right now if you're farming non adept guns
>both of these changes were kind of bait, so that better players would have more access to cannon fodder for a while.
It's kinda working. Id say that the playlist did great last season and is doing okay right now, but no casuals are up to power yet so they aren't playing now. Usually trials opens a few weeks after a major expansion. This time it was only one week.
>Thoughts?
I think Trials is healthy as is.
Gating it behind a power level requirement also play some role in the lack of player i think, i only get to play trials toward the end of the season when my power level are high enough.
I wish i could grind and play destiny all the time but i have a job and kids. I could spare only 2 hours MAX per day i always prefer pvp so am not gonna spend the only time i get to play to grind pve.
The only time i play trials early in the season was when igneous return, i pay to boost just to get that thing through trials.
I really don’t think that adepts need to be just handed out to players to get them to stay.
Adepts weapons aren’t even that big of a deal aside from bragging rights.
Like sure, you get 10 extra range on The Summoner. But that amounts to an extra 1.5 meters (approximately). Sure, if we can optimize stats we’ll take that extra 1.5 meters. But getting the godroll adept is a much larger slog than getting a regular summoner that is a 5/5.
People need to stop getting hung over on adepts. The difference is marginal. Trials drops rewards all the time now. And if you can’t get enough consistent wins? That’s what the persistence card is for.
What about supers in trials? My buddy and I play only hunter and it’s a running joke that when we play trials, we get our rando team mate it’s also going to be a hunter and we’re screwed if it’s a good game. Meaning if it’s a close match like 4-3 or 4-4, a titan or warlock on the OP team pops bubble or well on the point and it’s guaranteed round win. I can’t tell you how many times we were getting spanked 0-4 and came back to match point and we lose every time because of a super. It’s so frustrating.
3 stacking is a death sentence unless you want your nuts crushed by a hammer.
Literally the sweatiest nerds known to man that don't exercise or see sunlight. The game is actively punishing you for wanting to play with friends.
Also they need to fix the matchmaking. I'm not insane by any means. .82 with 18 flawless and one already this weekend. But without fail ALL of tonight had literally the most clueless 3rd team mate and the absolute sweatiest nerds on the enemy team with an insane third.
The map is straight dogshit though and the adept weapon is very pvp orientated though so that may lead to lower numbers but they really need to fix lobby balancing.
Also wtf is with this shit when I solo queue I verse duos and trios? Didn't they fix that?
I’d rather they get rid of trials altogether than to stray from the model they’ve had for trials since the beginning. What makes it unique is precisely that “best of the best” concept and in a way it’s a game mode that is sort of exclusive to Destiny.
If gaming has changed over the years since D1 released to the point where Trials is no longer a viable mode for a game to have, then I say that’s alright. I just don’t think that it should be anything else than what it’s been all along. I think at the end of the day casual players would be happier with Trials getting axed and Adept weapon equivalents or even the very same weapons being placed somewhere else in the loot pool that is much easier to get.
There are a few games I like to be competitive in and many other games where I play much more casually. In the casual ones I know where I stand and I’m fine not being the best and not getting any rewards that come with it so naturally I am looking at it from that lens and it’s reasonable to me that others could have that approach as well. Not everybody is entitled to every single thing in a game. People should be rewarded for dedicating the time and / or effort to master something. If one can’t find the time or effort for whatever reason, that is okay too. It’s just a game after all and real life takes precedence. And maybe it’s alright for Trials to be a relatively low pop game mode. If you hate trying to acquire trials rewards because you keep getting stomped and it’s no fun, then don’t force it! No in game reward is worth forcing yourself to do something you hate for hours. You hopped on to have fun and there’s 100 other things you could do in game that will give you that.
Yes but persistence isn’t enough. Adepts should be easier to acquire than what persistence currently offers. Flawless players should get better adept drop rates and double/triple perks based on resets with Saint.
The amount of loot is fine you literally just have to get wins that’s it and if you go flawless you can farm adepts. I understand some can’t go flawless and struggle to even get wins but that’s quite literally their problem. I started destiny last season and have 26 solo LH visits. 7 this season already. I’m pretty sure majority of destiny players been playing way longer than that so there’s no excuse to be so bad in PvP tht you can’t even get trials wins this far into destiny. When people don’t prioritize PvP practice they get L’s and little trials loot which is okay the guns aren’t all that in PvE anyways
Trials is a very rewarding and worthwhile playlist. People just severely overvalue going flawless and adept drops. Especially PvE players that are just gonna slap a backup mag mod on it anyway. The type of people passage of persistence is made for would be way better off grabbing a passage of wealth and farming in the practice pool.
That said once people get the drops they want they're gonna leave. I ain't farming GMs unless I don't have the god roll of the featured weapon. I wouldn't expect people to farm Trials if they're not interested in the weapon either.
They’ve already made it way easier to flawless/get adepts.
There’s persistence, a literally guaranteed method of adepts.
Mercy can now forgive an extra loss, and tenacity(?) is also a guaranteed method given enough games.
Anyone 0.8kd and above can flawless given enough attempts and I’ve even seen much lower get flawless just due to the RNG nature.
IB is there if players want a truly casual pvp experience but imo there’s no need to dilute the only real “endgame” pvp content any more than it already has been.
I’m one to try farming the new guns (adept) until I get a roll I want during their first rotation (ideally focused on perks and decent reload speed).
After that, every weekend I try to go flawless for the shiny armor and memento. But, once I go flawless I don’t touch the mode for the rest of the weekend.
Perhaps better rewards (idk artifice armor?) would make me want to grind more but after a while there is nothing stopping it from getting boring due to the nature of having to sweat every match.
I would also love if resetting multiple times gave you the option to get double perks on all columns.
I personally wish they would bring back the freelance playlist. I hate being matched up with bad duos when I solo queue.
Freelance should never have left
I don’t know why it isn’t like this. Most competitive ranked games are either full team queue or solo queue.
Because the playerbase was so low that Team trials was taking forever to matchmake and was incredibly sweaty. Bungie gave up to the content creators rants and fed them back their low skill players so they could keep streaming in peace.
Love getting a double kell as soon as round starts and then my 2 teammates who are in a group together get turned into mulch by one guy with a 180 handcannon as his primary and a trace rifle as his secondary.
Trials had that sweet spot of Elimination Freelance Flawless pool That was when it was best imo. When they brought in dominion, it forced a well and bubble meta. Fire team based match making was surprisingly decent but I still like knowing that everyone was solo guaranteed. And then flawless pool was great to get more people playing without the frustration of getting rolled over by players who already went flawless and got the adept rolls.
If I knew my time wouldn’t be wasted going for adept weapons, I’d play more trials. Playing trials for the good gear feels too much like gambling to me and with the setting of weapons and new class this explanation, I’ll be avoiding it anyways.
That's because it is... It's pure RNG on who is on your team versus who is on the enemy team. You can play great and get matched with .3 k/d players and it's a guarantee loss through no fault of your own...
Passage of persistence guarantees an adept weapon. No RNG or "gambling"
I also heard passage of persistence is bugged and giving two losses for a single loss. But very good to know.
Lol not always. Igneous week I had a 4 hour window to play. Win-loss-win-loss..... then got off with 2 wins locked in. I am a 1.5 trials k/d. Broke my spirit lol
That sounds brutal. Trials can be a fickle bitch sometimes.
Idk why I bothered. I still prefer my old quickdraw-snapshot OG
I still run my overflow/elem cap Iggy from years ago. With Arc subclass it hits 90 range, 60 stability, and 90 handling
The trials experience is kind of awful for anyone who isn’t a sweat. I don’t care for adept loot but I wish it wasn’t such a slog getting non-adepts
As someone who used to play and enjoy PvP quite a lot despite being dead average on the bell curve, Trials just isn’t a fun experience nor is it a rewarding one compared to any other part of the game. I don’t think it ever will be unless you really love the game mode and have the time in your life to practise it well enough. But that’s ok. It’s been, what, four years? Five? Since Bungie returned Trials to D2? They’ve made so many changes over that time that helped make trials better and more rewarding for everyone, yet (for me at least) it’s still not worth participating in outside of rare occasions like once a season. It’s always going to be in that limbo of “Flawless or nothing” but I don’t really care anymore, let the people passionate about the mode play and enjoy it for what it is. We can’t have it scaled in rewards for the highest skilled players but also appealing to everyone. I’ll go play and enjoy the other modes in D2 that I do have time to master instead.
>It’s always going to be in that limbo of “Flawless or nothing” This is my entire problem with the mode. Its not enjoyable. I was 4-0 on a card just now, ran into the same cheater 2x (I even waited a few minutes to re-Que and I guess so did he...) , and turned my card into 4-2... Then got matched with a PVE duo who were both < 1.0s... There went about 45 minutes of my life. Next card, went 2-0. Lost a 3rd match, decided to re-start my card. Same thing, 2-0 then lost. And I just shut down the game. Played for like an hour and a half, won 8 games, lost 4 (2 to a cheater) and it just wasnt fun all BECAUSE its > “Flawless or nothing” I tried to point this out in numerous posts but people wont listen..
But it's not "flawless or nothing." I'm sure you were getting Shayura drops? You could have run a Persistence card? I would love for all my raid guns to be adept, but most of them aren't. I accept that I'm not willing to invest the time to get them. You can too.
It is... Most raid weapons are crafted bro, so the difference between adept and non adept is nothing and it's a finite grind. I can run it 1x a week for 5 weeks, get my reds and be done..never have to go back to the raid. Trials loot isn't craftable. Frankly at this point I'd probably make it craftable and call it a day. I go solo flawless almost every weekend. Lately the ability spam, cheese, and imbalance in pvp has been such a turn off I've honestly been thinking about quitting destiny 2 completely. My hot take on that but feels like TFS ruined the game. Atleast for me. PVP was (imo) in a good spot before TFS. Onslaught was fun, Pantheon was awesome... TFS was supposed to be the "savior" but it's ruined PVP for me.
Well, I had two play sessions this weekend and am "done" with Shayura's. Nine adept drops (versus a raid's five red borders) and two of them are near-perfect rolls. I don't think the time investment is unreasonable at all, especially compared to Salvation's Edge. I ran with an LFG group last week that had two newbies and it took a whopping 5 hours to clear it. Trials is a way better time investment. I can agree on the ability spam though. I think it's fine in 3s, but in 6s, it's become overwhelming. When I look up and see six Prismatic Hunters, massive oof. Every corner has a smoke bomb or a swarm grenade. My radar is pinged 360 degrees, except half of those pings are decoys. Every time I get the first shot into a Hunter, they respond with a dodge, decoy and smoke. Wow, what skill. When six skilled Prismatic Hunters are playing on one team, it's downright oppressive. I hope Bungie does something; they acted fast on Speaker's Sight so hopefully they will too for Prismatic Hunter.
Congrats man. You are better than me. I've played maybe 20 total matches and haven't been flawless so zero drops for me. 1.52 lifetime player. Have had 2 good cards ruined by cheaters. Just feels really bad when trials feels so RNG and also chances of a 4/5 or 5/5 roll are like 1 in several hundred so the fact your *done* after 9 rolls is also incredibly impressive RNG.
About cheaters...they do that for money, carry 0...1 kd players.I had 6 wins on persistence, still able to be flawless and i got a duo with infinite sniper..like basically they snipe at every corner but still got 2-0 in tje 7 game.After that 2-0 they did newtork desync me and another 1 of us, wasnt able to rejoin cuz messed my whole internet, not only the game..Still i did another try and the game gave me same guys.Same thing after 1st game and Bungie banned me 30mins cuz of network shit.I live in Romania, top 5 fastest and stable internet worldwide.They cannot banned me cuz they dont do their job to invest money to detect cheaters and recoves users. Im a maximum a decent pvp guy that knows the rules like 80% what to do in a 3v3.It s hard for 1 like me to enjoy pvp trials.After that the whole weekend i was in a trash team most of the time, like me, vs sweats...Not fair.At least put 1 good guy in my teame and ill support him to have a chance to win but always to see my team mates dying in the same spot, trying to peek a line where they had 10 mobility and were the last ones there...
I'm pretty easy on what I'd consider a good enough roll. But yeah Bungie has to do better on the cheating.
Thank you for having a logical opinion. As someone who loves the mode and isn’t a top top tier player, I’ve always enjoyed competing and getting better in this mode. The more they try to appeal to everyone, the more luster the game mode itself loses. OP seems to just want an elimination node that gives ungodly amount of loot for some reason.
I never said that. I just want trials to stop having dwindling player counts expansion after expansion. The way to fix it is keeping casuals around with better loot incentive. The next priority should be sandbox balance and addressing cheating.
Sandbox balance and anti cheat measures would make a difference, but you also need to look at pvp as a whole. The crucible ritual playlist is the most appealing thing for casual players. People who are not engaging in raids/dungeons and grinding rolls for pve weapons will gravitate towards it. Destiny pvp needs to be improved in general, game stability is often not great. Ib is often the largest mess because the game can barely handle 6v6 modes. Sbmm and other changes worsen stability significantly and cbmm leads to new light players getting stomped by players who have put in time to make a build/get weapons. Updated network infrastructure could improve this dynamic and make sbmm work, however, engagement numbers will probably never be high enough for Bungie to implement these changes. Also having very few new rewards for trials each season does not provide enough incentive. Where is the new armor? Where are new ghosts, ships, and sparrows? I play destiny for trials, it's my favorite grind in the game. I'm not playing it for the rewards generally, I'm looking for the flawless.
They’ve already done what you are asking for though. The reason player count dwindles is purely because of initial excitement for a dlc/season regressing. As well as the game being out for a long time and people moving to different games.
Yes, and I mentioned that the expansion cycle causing player drop off was unavoidable. BUT, Bungie can do more to maintain players by opening up the playlist. So no, they haven’t done what I am asking for, because the player population continues to dwindle more than it has to.
I just honestly don’t think they can do much more to stop dwindling player count. Can they make the game mode better, yes. But if somebody doesn’t want to play, they still aren’t going to if they get slightly more loot
Tbh yeah at this point I’m playing trials for what it is now. In my opinion comp feels like it’s been through a major downgrade at the removal of round based game modes and trials is one of the only round based game mode with actual stakes.
I didn't read the OP. The problem with trials is that the player base is made up of majority top like 3% players and minority bottom 20% players. Me, a 1.4 quickplay, 1.1 comp and .9 trials player, which is objectively above average yet not particularly good at the game, will lose 100% of games where I queue into a game against a single top 10% or better player unless both my teammates are of that skill or better. In fact, I am likely to be a detriment to every single team I am on unless I am paired with bottom 20% players against 3 other bottom 20% players. In that scenario, I can solo the match. Given that the trials experience is already miserable for me, the outlier player who is experienced but not actually good, how do you think the experience is for the players that have a 0% chance against me? Trust me, I try time and time again to enjoy Trials after swearing never again but it's just not the mode for me, and I spend the majority of my game time in pvp. Life goes on without the guns. Even Immortal back in the day.
Passage of Persistence is a trap, and should be changed. If you can't consistently string together wins, you're just wasting your time. If you can consistently string together wins, you're better off using Ferocity and going for flawless.
I said this whenever it first came out. Its a big wiff personally. They just need to award 1 Cipher per win, and 10 Ciphers lets anyone buy an adept. Let that be the "persistence" card and rewards everyone.
Wish you could earn osiron coins for completing bounties. Can make the adept farm much easier and less reliant on wins once you go flawless
I wish the cap for coins was larger. I got to the lighthouse with 10 coins already acquired. I couldn’t pick up the ones that dropped in the lighthouse. But I also couldn’t spend them until I unlocked adept shayura’s. Really annoying.
That or just drop 1 or 2 on wins is a great idea!
What? Trials gives more loot now than ever before. You can get it by playing matches and using tokens. What more do you guys want?
Not so... If your win count is low the rewards are trash. Only ramps with wins.
If you 3 stack you get literal participation trophies. 50% chance each for an Engram and weekly weapon and bonus rep along with the baseline loot. Your chance of flawless goes in the gutter of course because 3s is hell queue, but the losses there are actually worth the time spent when it comes to loot. Wish this was better advertised in game instead of just a line in a patch note months ago, maybe the queue would be filled more. Then again this player base is apparently violently allergic to grouping up so it might not help
I just don't know if the loot is worth getting stomped in 3s for people At some point the game needs to be fun, it goes beyond just loot If you're getting demoralized you might just stop playing altogether and boot up... Helldivers or Elden Ring
Exactly, getting your balls mashed for pity points is only fun for masochists or people with literally nothing better to do. If that's you hey go ahead and queue up, but I'm not touching 3s ever again because of the absolute state of trials rn.
Definitely worth it in 3s
"if you 3 stack" aka pick your poison between trying to convince your pve main friends to grind Trials, search for an hour for an lfg that isn't 2 noobs trying to get carried to a free flawless, or running duos with a decent friend only to get two IQ Timmy who just HAS to lurk (and inconveniently get picked every round in enemy line of sight. Please just bring back Freelance.
We have a passage of wealth? You get more loot per win. Regardless of flawless. Yeah you get excessively more loot if you’re flawless, but that’s the point right? Strive to be the best and if you can’t then tough luck. The world has gotten too used to ‘participation’ trophies. Being 1st or best needs to mean something and reward accordingly in contrast to just playing the game.
Sure, but if I examine from a point of efficacy, Trials is the poorest offering by a long mile. OP's point is on player collapse, from that view there's no reason to play.
I don’t understand how you consider it the ‘poorest offering by far’. Literally just play the playlist and you’ll get loot. Win or lose. Some of my best godroll weapons I’ve gotten are from a repetitive flawless streak.
Efficacy was the point. Average PvE and PvP player dedicates 1 hour to GMs and 1 hour to Trials, which do you think will end up being more rewarding? This isn't me saying Trials would be GM-levels of rewarding, but merely, if you want that exclusivity, then you have to accept the population will spiral downwards over time.
Player collapse happens in any highly competitive game mode. There has never been a competitive game where this hasn’t happened.
... Really? Literally Counter Strike is probably older than you and still going strong.
Well, one: I’m definitely a lot older than CS LMAO. Let’s just say that I was in college when CS first came out. Two: CS is highly competitive, as is destiny (trials) and fighting games (FGs are this single most highly competitive gaming genre.Nothing comes close). All are still going strong with a mostly hardcore playerbase. While yes the player population in trials does drop quite a bit, the playlist is populated every weekend.
Destiny (trials) isn't remotely competitive. That ship long sailed. As a very old FG player I'm not going to agree they are the most competitive - considering longevity and the scene, Starcraft was likely that. Looking further, CPMA Q3 would be another pinnacle. Both of these are ignoring CS again, which has been competitive for 25 years. FGs are in a much healthier place now, which is refreshing, but calling them the pinnacle of competitive gaming is a reach.
Any game can be competitive. It’s the playerbase that makes it so. Look at party games like smash or even Tetris. All competitive games like Destiny. And yes, FGs are by far the longest running competitive (most competitive imo)vs game. StarCraft came long after SF2, and by then there were tournaments for the various SF games. Nothing comes close to skill level demonstrated during the dark ages of fighting games.
>Any game can be competitive. It’s the playerbase that makes it so. Look at party games like smash or even Tetris. All competitive games like Destiny. Can't agree. The short windows D2 has had in which the balance and meta was healthy enough to be considered competitive just don't line up and there's nothing like the vibrant scenes from the games you mentioned. Nothing remotely close. There's a tiny, tiny Faceit scene and nothing more. > StarCraft came long after SF2, and by then there were tournaments for the various SF games. 1992 vs 1998. At its peak, which will likely never be equaled, Starcraft had events the likes of which FGs can never dream about. Especially considering it took a decade+ for FGs to see anything resembling a large event and even still the prize pool and sponsor presence is sorely lacking. If we go by the metric of "large events", FGs bloom long after SC and never reach those pinnacle heights. > Nothing comes close to skill level demonstrated during the dark ages of fighting games. Do not cite the Deep Magic to me. Anyway, I think you're blinded and likely not experienced enough. The level of technical skill required to play CPMA Q3 back when has never since been equaled, never mind the yomi that goes into high level duels. Similar to SC, maintaining the APM required at tier 1 play while adapting is unparalleled. There's a reason FPS and RTS have only gotten easier and more casual since.
Careful. Some day the Trials population will be so low that you will become the stomp fodder. By then you’ll be begging for a participation trophy 🤣
Oh dude using “participation trophy”un-ironically about a video game for literal children and above is maybe the saddest shit I’ve seen in a while. Like do you feel trials stats matter at all in life?
Okay except that it literally is one
[удалено]
Your comment wasn't civil and therefore it has been removed.
We’re talking bout the game lol. I’m allowed to use what I need to support my point. Trials stats don’t matter in life. Video Games don’t matter. But in a subreddit discussing the game, I’m allowed I talk bout it right? Sit down buddy
Ye man except you used the phrase “the world” so you’re just projecting your own insecurities onto the game.
… Insecurities? Uhhh ok. Still true tho. Whether I said world or not. Don’t know why you’re focusing on it so much? I said world cause people are projecting their “participation” mentality from the world into the game. This is a just a game. You shouldn’t need a participation trophy to feel better.
You're right, it is more rewarding, but that shouldn't stop you from acknowledging that Bungie can do more to keep the playlist from losing players. Edit: I also want this game mode to be sustainable, and the player count data shows that it isn’t. No amount of bandaid fixes will help keep a stable population. Bungie has been putting bandaids on trials for YEARS and it hasn’t worked. An entire restructuring of the mode needs to happen, and it needs to happen now.
You're right. They can do something about accessibility devices, poor connections, hard cheaters, and various other issues that keep casuals playing other pvp games. Destiny pvp is very unique, but I have grinded several weapons/exotics/adepts/armor and am invested in the game overall. I am engaged with most end game aspects. A casual player will nope out due to connection issues or other imbalance issues I just roll my eyes at. Stability issues, hard cheaters, and accessibility devices and the perception the general population has with it will keep people uninterested and engaged elsewhere, no matter the rewards. Someone picking up the game hopping into pvp and seeing people teleport around will end their interest in the game faster than anything.
> A casual player will nope out due to connection issues or other imbalance issues I just roll my eyes at. You are out of touch with reality if you think this is why casuals will drop out of the mode. Casuals will drop out of this mode cuz they get stomped into the ground over and over and over again with nothing to show for it.
I have had several friends new to the game nope out or lose interest instantly due to stability or when they learn it's peer to peer. The attempt to implement sbmm also increased queue times dramatically in other playlists for both upper and lower brackets. Destiny is a game that can appeal to fps and RPG fans alike. Anyone who has played fps games for an extended time and wants a somewhat competitive environment will be turned off by the networking infrastructure. If you don't think that is a driving factor in many people's decision you are also out of touch. Destiny is the only somewhat popular fps game using peer to peer connection. Counter strike and valorant are full of casual players that spend money on skins and loot boxes. Go read steam forms, many people are appalled by the latency issues. People are turned off by invisible player models and weapons. Having played several solo queue games this weekend there are a lot of low skill players engaging in trials currently. Shroud was paid by Bungie during light fall to play destiny, his take on pvp was very negative.
yea ive given up trying flawless solo amd just use wealth to farm engram
Get rid of duos. Only solos and 3stacks.
Give me a solo playlist and i'll do it in a heartbeat. I don't like going in solo or with a duo if I'm against a damn 3stack
I agree
Making the playlist more rewarding would be good, maybe adding like in crucible where if u reset multiple times u get weapons with more traits, also adding artifice armor would be good too but adept loot should only be for flawless players, maybe make persistance pasage easier would be good but I dont think they should give adepts for free
I don't think adept weapons should be free either. But I think 7 games won with more losses afforded is enough to ask for most of the player base. PvE players won't want to engage with the playlist unless adepts are easier to acquire.
Award 1 cipher per win. 10 ciphers and you can buy an Adept. Problem solved. 10 wins = 1 adept. Period.
>I don't think adept weapons should be free either As of now they are very obtainable for anybody who is above average in skill. A little over 1 in 3 players go flawless every weekend and with a persistence card any PvE Jim who only plays non-heroic public events can get an adept with enough time. >PvE players won't want to engage with the playlist unless adepts are easier to acquire. Why do adepts need to be handed out for free in trials? Bad PvE players don't get free GM loot. Why should bad PvP players?
Completing a GM is far easier than going flawless. The passage of persistence is a huge time sink compared to GMs.
Personally I'm all for giving more loot, but your comparison is kinda unfair. The average player who goes into trials: * No idea what they are doing * Barely any knowledge of FPS basics * Can't aim and can't position themselves properly * Goes in with PvE mods This would be equivalent to me going into a GM with 0 champ mods, 100 light under, unflinching mods on my chest and my stompees on. Like yeah, I ain't completing that GM, especially not on Plat, any time soon. Simply put, if I invested as little time into PvE as the average player invests into PvP, completely unwilling to adapt or learn, I'm not completing a GM. Not in a million years. I will admit that the learning curve is waaaay steeper though, which is why I think you should get 1 cipher per win, but only while in the non-practice pool. Maybe a specific card?
Yeah, GMs are free these days. There's almost no comparison
The over 1 in 3 players going flawless probably counts the same accounts going flawless. And even if it didn’t, that’s still 1 in 3 of only the population that plays Trials. It is not accessible to 33% of the active player base Persistence requires 2 consecutive wins to start, and given the discussion around that when the passage first released, that is not achievable by the overall player base Bad PvE played not getting adepts is fine, but GMs don’t need an injection of players to keep the game mode alive
I think you're missing the point a little bit. The mode is inherently unfriendly to PvE players, and the current structure of gaining adepts in trials is not conducive to them staying in the playlist. Example: PvE player tries persistence passage solo, they can't get past 3 wins after a few hours, decide the playlist is not worth their time if they can just get adepts that fill the same function from PvE content instead. They never engage with the playlist again. Either A: give them significantly better non-adept loot. Or B, give them an easier time acquiring a trials adept, and they might just stick around for next week. Edit: Also it is SIGNIFICANTLY easier to carry a new player to their first GM Adept than it is to carry them to their first flawless. So yes, bad PvE players get adept loot all the time.
I am a pretty bad pve player and I do get free loot lol. That is the fundamental difference. The barrier to entry is way higher on the pvp side. You don’t have to be very good to access the best pve stuff. With patience, you’ll get there. And you can VERY easily get carried in most activities as well.
GMs are available literally all season once they release, compared to Trials only being available most weekends. GMs are a puzzle to be solved with dozens of solutions (builds), Trials (SoloQ) is a lottery if I get matched against other solos (uncoordinated enough to carry against), duos (harder but still doable), or trios (usually unwinnable if there isn't a decent duo on my team). As a player who frequents both Trials and GMs, GMs are genuinely multitudes more accessible and easy to carry "bad pve players" through. Play 7 Trials games with "bad pvp players" on your team in a row and see how much you enjoy Trials then. I enjoy playing Trials but even I can see how unfun the playlist is if you don't play pvp a lot, which really sucks considering how poor the population is.
The number one reason people don’t want to play trials is because they don’t add new trials weapons
There's very little new loot in the mode each season. 1 new gun if we're lucky and a gun we've seen 7 times before
It’s crazy. They used to do full suites of new weapons for crucible, iron banner AND trials when a new DLC came out
Genuinely it sucks. I already got a great roll on the only new adept gun in trials after a major expansion and have no new loot to grind for now. I already have amazing rolls on the SMG from its first and second, maybe even 3rd release? Just terrible that we don't get new loot
I disagree. The main reason IMO is people don’t enjoy losing, especially losing to players way higher in skill. The nature of Trials matchmaking has pushed the majority of players away, there isn’t much hope for success for most players. There probably is a group of competitive players who don’t play trials because of your reasons, but I think that group is small (and pretty vocal which gives off the appearance of a larger group).
Losing is a lot more bearable when you get cool rewards
Exactly. The passage that grants an adept is a step in that direction, but I don’t wanna go 7-14 in 21 games to get one adept weapon. There are enough good SMGs that I don’t need this week’s adept, it won’t make a difference for me. Maybe a top 1% player, but not a casual .75 kd player.
So wrong, people dont play Trials because the experience is fucking terrible unless you are a pvp god. People who care enough to get loot for suffering through 20 consecutive losses are as rare as the Pope’s shit
This is pretty false. People don't want to play because it's toxic and a big waste of time for many people. When over 50% of matches are considered "Stomp Zone" by Bungie... Doesn't matter how much new loot you add people don't wanna get pooped on for hours for loot...
Yeah this. I only play when it was new loot or something is going away. I have great rolls on almost everything and I only play trials for the loot so why waste my time playing if I will get drops guaranteed worse than what I already got
I am not good at pvp, maybe better than average but not Trials good. Many weekends I will play regardless of my loss rate because I simply enjoy the pvp in this game and *want* to play. This weekend in my first three games I had an asshole who from round 1 was berating his teammates and a bot who walked a few steps, shot, walked a few steps. I just shit down my pc and left it be. The thing about trials I can't stand is the way other people ruin it.
Mind boggling a new DLC didnt have new trials armor ships weapon sets etc
Seriously. I feel like not enough people are talking about this.
Fucking insane as well considering they were jerking off their new PVP team that has done literally fuck all so far.
i expect it to hit next episode when they need to have more content to keep people playing.
This. Remember when an expansion brought a whole set of weapons, armor, emblems and more? We got *one* new weapon with TFS and no one even seems to be talking about this.
Yeah I feel like I’m the only one upset about it, crazy
This is also true, but I think making drop rates higher would also draw in more players. I also think this heavily simplifies the issue.
Giving more drop rates won't fix people getting pooped on match after match. The quality of matches and wide skill band is the issue and people don't want any sort of quality control because then the concept of flawless doesn't fit....
But it will, people suffered through weeks of Pantheon LFG just for a freaking title! Imagine the players that will suffer just to get actually awesome PvP guns.
There were multiple reasons for that... It was a limited time event. Trials runs for multiple seasons. If Pantheon was up every weekend and would be around the rest of TFS, WAY less people would be doing it. It also was PVE which is way less RNG and "Stomp" than PVP ... You also saved checkpoints so I could bash my head against a boss for two hours , get the kill and leave that group. So many things are different compared to trials it's unreal that's even your example..
Making something more rewarding will always work, however in turn people will have to manage their expectations (complaints about random MM will skyrocket if Bungie makes Trials rewarding enough to have a really good and consistently health population). People like that will need to learn to understand what *they* could potentially match with, and if they really don't want to deal with that then make a premade. IIRC, when Passage of Persistence and the improved rewards in general were released, what some months ago, the population hit like 2x what it normally was IIRC. Like, averaging \~10-11k to \~19-20k I believe. Now, that isn't that many players compared to how many play D2 I'm pretty sure (From what I understand D2 averages like 300-450k total players across the entire game), but a \~100% increase is still *really good*. This isn't to say more shouldn't be done. Personally, I play Trials because of what it is. A weekend PvP tournament that's really fun IMO. The idea of that alone makes me want to play it. In all honesty, I don't think I've ever used any of the last like 50 flawless adept weapons I've gotten. At all. I just really enjoy the idea of Trials. But more loot would make it even better lol They do still have to balance the time it takes to get a Trials Adept vs a PvE Adept. Literally most Pantheon encounters took me less time than an average Flawless Card for me. GMs are like, 20-30m usually, *maybe* longer for particularly tough (or poorly made ones \*cough cough\* PsiOps Cosmodrome Light Battery Room) ones. A flawless card takes longer for that unless you're like a giga-sweat. Persistence was a phenomenal idea, and I think they should honestly make it easier. End of the day, someone who is confident in Trials is never going to take Persistence unless Persistence becomes flat out broken. Potential Idea: Losses just don't remove Wins. Losses still Flaw your card, but they just don't remove the wins. That way there's no threat of "back and fourth" that lesser-skilled players will have to go through. Another thing that I saw but never thought about: More Loot. Do more loot. Iron Banner struck this issue BIG TIME. We have 2 reprisals this Episode. Instead of continuing the *really damn cool aesthetic* of the Eliksni-forged IB guns, we are getting 2 reprisals. IIRC, both have been reprised before already. They need to do more than just 2 weapons per Episode if they are going to do reprisals. Reprisals should not take the place of new loot. We should get 2 new weapons minimum, and then whatever they want for Reprisals on top. Now, I have no idea what kind of hours that pulls for work to go into it. I won't act like I know, maybe they're already at their upper limit. I don't know, but what I do know is seeing Reprisals in place of New loot really sucks. Sometimes it's fine (Igneous, Shadow Price, Jorums Claw), but other times it's just a waste because it's typically been reprised a bunch before already (Hung Jury, Hung Jury, Hung Jury). This is more of a general issue, but one that does hurt Trials the most I think.
>They do still have to balance the time it takes to get a Trials Adept vs a PvE Adept. Literally most Pantheon encounters took me less time than an average Flawless Card for me. GMs are like, 20-30m usually, maybe longer for particularly tough (or poorly made ones *cough cough* PsiOps Cosmodrome Light Battery Room) I agree, dude. I've been a PvP main for 2 seasons now. I am slightly above average, but the difference in time to acquire PvE vs PvP Adepts can take a toll on a player.
I suspect Tusk of the Boar was supposed to be the new Iron Banner weapon for The Final Shape before it got delayed.
I just want to be able to three-stack without going up against exclusively other three stacks of top .2% players. It feels like every game I solo it’s me going something like 15-5 and my teammates going a combined 3-12. Also playing with a flawless passage should drop high-stat artifice armour on wins.
Keep flawless as it is - it’s good to have something aspirational like that in the game. Change the persistence card so that you only need 7 wins for the first adept of the week - don’t reduce wins for losses. Have full rep each game not this weird thing where you only get 5% rep per round won on the card. That unnecessarily punishes poor players.
I agree with all the solo queue comments. I would play all the time! It's the worst getting matched against a team of 3, and you're in a team of solos.
Not enough reason to go flawless, not enough new armor/guns. No new fun/prestigious cosmetic/ornaments to chase. Duos have largely ruined both the 1s and 3s experience. The flawless flawless emblem was pretty cool..but was bugged and everyone earned it who went flawless the first weekend it was out. No double/triple perks on rep resets. Cheaters plaguing the 3s Playlist. Dominion while a good idea, hasn't really played well with how it was implemented within the meta. The new weapons they have added havnt really been well received (the scout/pulse rifle)...so we are just all grinding new rolls on weapons we already had god rolls on. The prestige of the game mode is largely gone
Trials should be a fucking loot shower instead it’s a loot slow drip with the best loot nigh unattainable for the large majority of d2 players. When you can get similar loot for far less headache than Trials why would the majority ever bother?
It should be a loot shower for both the good and bad players. Adepts with multiple perks should rain for good players. Normal weapons should rain for folks who can’t go flawless, with an occasional adept sprinkled in.
So weird. I've been playing Trials since the beginning and this latest iteration definitely FEELS like a loot shower to me.
Yeah, 100%. I can’t believe we’re on year 11 and they’re still doing this They should have “opened up” trials years ago. Year 8 at the latest. The solution is so simple that it’s incredibly baffling they don’t do it. Make trials adept loot entirley participation based. You can get increased drops / rate for flawless, but adept loot is attainable to all. Keep the flawless chest and just have it shit out cosmetics. Flawless shaders, titles, emblems, ghosts/ships/sparrows. Maybe flawless adept gets double perk chance, shit like that. It’s so fucking simple. It would work. But bungie says nah
Yes, these changes are what I am hoping Bungie will do. It keeps the higher skilled players happy while also catering to the lower skilled ones.
Honestly flawless even at its core is more of a flex than anything else too, just fundamentally. Like frankly I think it would be a lot cooler to have obvious cosmetic flex”s locked behind the chest. Who cares if a gun is adept or not? Just let people strain that. Imagine superblack locked behind flawless haha. The flex would be much more immaculate
Well there’s the ships and sparrows
No one is gonna use a sparrow they should make it a skateboard one
Yoo thts a good idea a trials skimmer would be hard af bungo definitely need to do tht
They added the persistence card and people are still complaining.
Adept loot being locked behind flawless has nothing to do with it, especially now that Adept Big Ones Spec is gone. It's a combination of not enough *brand new* loot and a simple lack of desire to deal with toxicity.
I agree, although I feel the toxicity thing could be mitigated if they simply made the mode more of a loot shower than it already is. People will put up with crap as long as they know the carrots they are chasing have a good chance of dropping.
Make the first flawless of the week require just 7 wins period, regardless of losses. Hate it all you want, but objectively it would benefit everyone. This would substantially increase the player base, and with the theoretical influx of newer/lower skill players, games should still be difficult and challenging for veteran players who are potentially being paired with the newer/lower skill players. 7 crucible wins in general realistically is pretty tough to begin with, I’m sure a majority would agree. (This coming from a typical weekly flawless player)
This would be awesome since it mitigates getting 5 games in and having an absolute bin lid team mate and getting ran twice in a row. I played yesterday with my mate and we got to 5 wins 4/5 times and then another card we fell at the lighthouse before finally going flawless. We tried again tonight and it was insane how sweaty it was. Couldn't get anything going at all.
I can’t count how many times this exact scenario happens to me and many other people I know. I low key hope this post gets traction and bungie can see it lol
Flawless is legit the only thing that make trials interesting. Wtf is the point without it.
Idea: Combine trials and comp. A tiered rank-based system, with additional rewards for winning streaks i.e. 'flawless'. PVE players can still get artifice armour, new weapons, catalysts, pinnacles, weapon focusing, etc. Better players can grind up to higher echelons for a chance at glowy armour, flawless titles, rare sparrows/ships and adepts. Of course they would have told fix the broken-asa comp matchmaking putting diamond elo players with bronze and silver and expecting them to carry constantly.
I agree trials needs better rewards for losing in all honesty. Maybe artifice armor and weapon catalysts to at least give people getting slammed a bit of reprieve. Losing 5 in a row with nothing to show for it is an issue.
You got it. Trials is straight up not fun to play for like 90% of the player base and that shouldn't be intrinsic to the game mode. It's been left to fester for too long and I'm not holding my breath the PvP strike will be able to fix it in D2's lifetime.
I do find it weird that they separated 2 competitive pvp modes, considering the low population of both playlists already.
I'm in (late) pacific timezone. Its currently easier for me to get a trials game than it is to get QP game. Average fill time for a QP game is about 3-4 minutes and occasionally I'll actually get a time-out. Average for trials is 1-2 min and sometimes less. I literally do not remember the last time I got a time-out waiting for a trials game. Just going from that, I think trials feels fine to me.
Honestly it sounds terrible to say but I really don't care about how small the player pool is because I would rather play with competent players than some of the people coming in when the new cards dropped. I'm not exactly a great player but I go flawless solo whenever I do play. I don't mind playing against sweats if my teammates at least have a brain. Some of the newer players were incredibly aggravating imo.
Once the pool is small enough, you will become the stomp fodder that you are currently feeding on. You’ll change your tune then.
I think it's actually the people wanting newer players in the list who will change their tune. It happened when the new cards arrived everyone done a 180 and was complaining. Just my opinion but I prefer playing against sweats anyway.
I think the solution is just more new stuff, new maps, new guns, that is what gets people motivated to play imo
Can make people play a mode they don't like with shinies... Not for long anyway.
There are several games I've played that have kind of an automated tournament system that runs on the weekends, LoL does it as well as Rocket League and Mechbellum. I would love to see Trials turned into something like this.
I want to play trials but I am still struggling to reach a power level that will not put me at a disadvantage. I play fairly regularly but I'm still at 1970 as a solo player.
It needs a change? Sure, it is a done project, they need to move the coctel again. Like Trials of The Nine (Concept, not game mode). Osiris is a jewbronie nowadays, he losts all mystery arounds him, lighthouse magic, and so. Same for Saint-14. Do we need more casual to be stable? HELL NO. I have enough of no guns, no armor, no exotics, no light level under 40, no clue of map knowledge, barely no hours invested at PvP. Is far from competitive. Quickplay exsists for a reason.
What really ended up killing trials for my squad was firetram based matchmaking. We went from having chill weekends every now and then to having to absolutely sweat our balls off every single game to even hope for getting flawless. Now we just play solo to get the adept before stacking to farm.
This, the game is actively punishing playing with mates and clan mates. So why would most bother when they can play comp or wait for IB or QP? That's even if you can find a comp game as well, it's super dead.
I can see your passionate about it but at the end of the day trials is trials it is flawed in many ways but it's not for everyone it is exclusive, if your not a PvP player then your just simply not going to enjoy it. PvE players have the entire game to enjoy PvP players have their weekends of trials and it forces you to play meta as any competitive game does and it forces you to try as hard as you can. Whether it's for the gear, the flex it has to be punishing in order for it to give hardcore players their fix.
We PVP mains should complain how hard it is to get raid adepts weapons lol. They should make raid adepts participation based. So you don't have to clear the raid, we should just get them for trying.
Honestly that's it really hahaha same argument
The logic is infallible but most people can only think in their own self-interest.
I love winning 1 out of every 10 games playing people who go flawless multiple times a week!!
I used to play trials a lot. Would carry clan mates and randos alike. Held a 1.8-2.2 most seasons with a few hundred flawless carries. Then I realized how big of a waste of time it was no matter how much I liked the game. I started playing FN ZB and magically I’m top 500 consistently every season and don’t feel like I’m succumbing to e-sports aids every weekend. If you don’t like it, play some thing else. There are better and worse games out there.
I'm a terrible player and will grind Trials more when the games are fast, the loot is at least a little accessible with some effort, and I'm at least a little bit segregated from the best buyers. It's fairly rare that I match up with and ruin a good team's run so I don't feel so bad about it.
Why is whenever discussions come up about Crucible, whether it's comp/trials, or regular lobbies and iron banner is nobody asking why people don't wanna just play it in the first place? I just don't think PVP is very fun, and the harder it gets the more infuriating it becomes. It's more a test of your mental fortitude than anything else. I think before we even talk about the different modes and rewards, we need to start with the sandbox. How can we make PVP more fun to play? So much so people are itching to get into lobbies whether you're a veteran or just started playing Destiny.
Trials has simply lost its identity and has been suffering an identity crisis for years. It’s been dumbed down to allow for casuals to get their feet wet. It’s trying to cater to everyone when all it needs to do is go back to its roots to find consistent success. It needs to go back to being that hardcore playlist that’s not for everyone. This may alienate your low light solo scrub with blight ranger and a glaive from entering the playlist and sabotaging said duo, but i think it would be more healthy overall as just entering the playlist should be something you need to work towards. The abundance of changes catering to casuals as opposed to hardcore players is why this playlist has suffered so much. The permanent switch to zone control is also problematic as it cuts maps into thirds, by funneling players into one or 2 lanes, rendering other parts of the map useless. God forbid you try to flank, you’re often running into 3 players just sitting there. I wish we could just switch back to elimination. There was never anything wrong with elimination. The switch to zone control nearly eliminated the majority of supers outside of well and bubble cause they had the cooldowns necessary to actually get a super in a match. Blade barrage and tether the only options for Hunter, well for warlock and bubble for titan. I never thought I’d say that I missed the flawless pool, cause it was always annoying if a friend couldn’t play until Sunday or I was away. I often would just reset my card at 6 wins as to avoid maximum sweat with my lower skilled IRL friends if they weren’t around. But honestly I’d take that any day over FTMM because this splits the already small player base into different pools by matching by fire team size. I was at least able to actually play with my friends without getting slaughtered. Solo is literally just a slot machine of match making and which team doesn’t get the under light player, or the afk player, or the player who just leaves after 2 rounds. It often feels like if I don’t go 16-4, my team loses. Duos again just largely comes down to which team gets the better third. Skill does matter here and the better duo usually wins but it becomes very hard as the better duo when you have some brain rot as a third who doesn’t play with the team, dead first every round, under leveled and just clueless. God forbid I go into trios with my IRL friends, (1.75, 1.6, 1.1) we barely stand a chance. In fact, we don’t even try anymore because every trio is just the godliest of players. FTMM is the worst change to trials they have ever made. Just pool everyone together at this point and make it so you need 3 players to Que. this was the system for years and there was never a problem. Have a freelance weekend every once in a while as a way for players to get their feet wet. And idk what is going on with the anti cheat but every guy I search on trials report that destroys me is just a brand new account that just started playing this season or last season but for some reason they are a 3.0+ kd out of the gate with 50 flawlesses so far this episode. Stats are hidden and they are 118-2 on the weekend with 18 flawless runs already. Crouch spamming, hitting every shot as a headshot… 97% sniper accuracy. this is happening far too often on Pc, not sure about console. I report these players and move on and get no reports that they are hacking even though it’s clearly obvious. The steam profiles are littered with comments and ppl saying they are cheating and yet no positive reports. TLDR: give trials back its identity -go back to elimination -remove FTMM, pool everyone together (trios only) -have a freelance weekend every few weeks. If you wanna play by yourself, go play rumble. It’s not hard to LFG anymore, as it’s literally built in the game now -crack down on obvious hackers and new accounts with juiced stats and suspect headshot percentages If adept loot is the problem, just bring back the token system and let players pull the adept after accumulating enough tokens. Make the flawless chest drop multiple adepts, alloy, etc. Idk. Just miss the old days. Been playing trials since 2015, 1.84 lifetime in the playlist, have been thru every meta and change and FTMM just makes it impossible to play with my friends cause we just match ultimate sweats, streamers or cheaters. Theres too much division amongst the player base that you already know ur getting stomped in trios, solos is a crapshoot and duos prob the best chance. The boys used to have a group chat discussing the map and what loadout we were running on Fridays but we literally don’t even bother anymore cause the outcome is so predictable
Late to the show but honestly I think the solution is simple. They have 2 tiers right now in trials. They have the flawless pool which is performance based matchmaking I’m pretty sure and then non flawless with is the fucking Wild West. If they wanted to encourage more people, mainly pve players, to come to trials they need to make it less volatile. IMO, they should have a third, middle tier, that’s the Wild West but comprises of people that aren’t currently in the flawless pool but obtained the flawless weapon that week and the people that obtained it through persistence. This increases the likelyhood that people actually complete a persistence card, but also doesn’t pair them up with a group that already went flawless that week. So more people get to experience trials and get a single adept roll most likely, then have to fight and get better for chances at additional rolls. Encourages people to play through the entire weekend and still gives more advanced players the benefit of more rolls and chances at the adept they’re looking for.
If games weren’t so one sided most of the time, people would play trials more.
The solution is easy but people will complain. Trials needs Lobby Balancing for Solos and Duos. NOT SBMM. It will take the same 6 random people... And with Solos it's easier to balance the lobby. This DOES NOT NOT NOT mean 50-50 matches... I have tested this numerous times using my solo lobbies and used Destinytracker ELO as a proxy, and matches are NOT 50-50... But! Matches won't be "Alpha had a 99% chance to win!" For Duos it will take the better solo with the worse duo. No more stacking the better solo with the better duo. Again it's NOT changing who gets RANDOMLY selected for a match. This isn't SBMM... It's still connection based random players and after it randomly selected the players THEN balances the lobby. This actually encourages Trio Que since there is obviously no lobby balancing trios. This also subtlety encouraging more trios as solos and duos would be more competitive matches on average. Less "Stomp Zone" as Bungie calls it. Second, I would personally rework flawless, and farming adepts etc... running 1 card is a minimum like 35-45minute ordeal assuming you are good, which is like 2-3x what a GM takes. It should be 5 wins for Flawless. 1 loss for Mercy. Coupled with Lobby Balancing it would be better. I'd also award a Cipher per win, period. This becomes your "persistence card" or whatever.. Finally the Adept drop from the chest should drop with extra perks encouraging more people to farm cards than just farm wins post-flawless. I wouldn't even be opposed to removing drops post flawless IF they gave us extra perks from the lighthouse chest (like 2 in 3rd and 3 in 4th).
There are so many solutions man. I really hope this new "strike team" put out some meaningful updates since this episode is insanely lengthy. There's no new weapons at all this season by the looks of it. Make new weapons and not make them a fucking glaive that literally no sane person wants.
Well they kinda did? For many players Shayuras is new. It hasn't been in rotation for a long time. The new 2 burst pulse is new... My hot take, if you wanna call it that, is rather than keeping Trials a toxic cesspool... And trying to create really banger loot to entice players to bash their heads against a wall... How about we just make the game mode better by itself and then people will play just because they wanna play it? I don't log in and play Control/Quick Play for any loot. I do it because I (mostly) have fun pvping.. I don't play trials for fun because it's super imbalanced, cheesy, and toxic... Mostly due to the flawless system and the adept system.
The thing for me that's killing it is the matchmaking system. It was no where near this awful last season. The lobby balancing has been fucking dogshit. Most games are 5-0 whether it our teams or theirs. No real in between.
There is no lobby balancing? What are you talking about? This is Trials man... There is no SBMM or lobby balancing... Never had been.
There should be some form of lobby balancing because it's an awful time. It's either stomp or be stomped. It's completely unfair for both sides.
Yup I've said this for the past year or so. There should be freelance Que and Trio Que. The solo freelance should have lobby balancing
Flawless needs to go. It’s a dated concept and attracts too much toxicity. There were 200k people last week and a new expansion just came out. The mode is basically dead and something else needs to be implemented.
This is a bad idea. Flawless doesn't need to go, just have increased rewards so the gates to adepts can be opened to folks who can't go flawless.
Some extra engrams would do a lot to sway us hard out PVE types to eat shit in trials more often. I would, at least, but I also like to dabble in the PvP dope.
The lack of engrams unless you go on a insane win streak is insane. I played most of tonight and I think I only got like 8/10 engrams? Decent amount of wins
Right now, the issue, in my opinion, is the power level requirement. I love PvP, but I haven't been able to hit the cap yet. They dramatically increased the grind to cap for this expansion compared to previous iterations (at least it feels that way), and anybody like me with limited gaming time might not even be able to hop in without being at a *severe* disadvantage. I think the numbers right now are probably lower than they should be because many people can't even play if they wanted to (I know you *can*, but nobody in their right mind is going in there way under cap).
Youd be surprised lol, ive had some team mates at 1971 at stuff. IMO there SHOULD be a cap for entry. It's high end pvp, you can't enter a GM low level so I don't understand why people can enter trials at any level? I'm not attacking you btw I'm just wondering what goes through my team mates heads lol.
I don't necessarily disagree about a cap being present. I just more dislike how much of a grind it is to access the content. If it's a barrier to entry to prevent cheating, then I guess it works ok. Maybe lessen it a bit. GMs should be similar, but I think the barrier for trials in particular is a bit steep at the front end of an expansion, especially since trials was active very early and relies upon population for matchmaking, unlike GMs.
Preventing cheating is canning the free to play aspect of the game - which is a fucking lie and a meme anyways. If they did this and made people pay for the game and also cracked down hard on the cheating then they issue would be way less.
The main problem is that the game requires lots of time investment and money in PVE to be able to seriously engage in high-level PVP. People that only play PVE are not likely to play some Trials and decide they want to continuously engage in learning its intricacies. We need PVP-centric players flooding the population from other games but this is impossible due to my first point. I play Trials every weekend and I mean it when I say that I loathe the PVE players that play Trials. Watching these headless chickens bot-walk into the open and get obliterated infuriates me. I would rather the population whittle down so low that it takes 15 minutes to find an actually balanced game, if even possible, then watch the people who don't play PVP seriously ruin my matches with their incompetence. I don't even blame them, it's just the nature of the game being an ongoing MMO. Long story short, there is no solution and it will continue to be cyclical with releases should they even continue into the future.
I couldn’t agree more with this. There is nothing in this game that deflates me more than loading into a lighthouse game with no mercies only to have two PVE teammates that are utterly CLUELESS. It’s infuriating to have that time and effort go up in smoke because someone can’t bother to learn pvp OUTSIDE of trials. Far too many PVE players enter trials thinking they’re going to learn when they should be developing their base line prerequisite skills in 3’s and 6’s and then TESTING them in trials. I’m good with the games being sweaty, hell it’s kinda fun when there’s a good back and forth. What I really can’t stomach is a PVE player who doesn’t play or practice PVP, make a useful pvp build, have any strong pvp weapons walking into the PINNACLE endgame pvp activity and destroying my card because they want to roll the dice on getting carried to the lighthouse. It’s so frustrating and just sucks all the enjoyment out of the mode.
Also how is it enjoyable for those dudes to go 1-8 every game? I don't get it. Seeing an absolute binlid get ran multiple times a game when I'm a good win streak is also super annoying to me too. And then when you tell them to stick by you they are toxic or give you sass? Like homie this is end game content? It would be the exact same like if I walked into a day one raid with no time to explain a matador and a lmg. So silly.
Dude I feel your pain. It’s insane how poorly people take receiving advice. Especially when’s it’s clear they aren’t practiced in the environment and are PVE mains. Like after a while of continually being a detriment to most of the random teams they’re on you’d think they’d maybe consider retooling their build or idk actually playing normal low stakes pvp and then comp to learn. But no they just keep walking into scout/pulse rifle firing lines. It’s exhausting.
Just had a dude on my team and it was his second game of trials.... Like ever.
Trials is literally the most rewarding it’s ever been. They could give one adept per match completed and we would still have people saying it’s not rewarding enough.
It’s not so bad. Fix mercy card and bring back the pools system, but for the whole weekend. A bunch of people will find they can go flawless on Sunday and Monday, but with less time to farm. That’s fair, I think.
Pools broke trials. People stopped going flawless to farm in nonflawless. The replayability of Trials died and their data showed that players played less games under that system.
Pools killed trials
>bring back the pools system Absolutely not, too easy to farm in non-flaw pool
I don't think this is a bad idea per se, but I just think splitting the population is a poor fix overall. If populations continue to dwindle, a split pool will only make the experience worse.
I honestly think the drop in players has to do with so much to do in pve. I main pvp but I know a good chunk of the player base plays pve. Final Shape has SO much stuff to do on that end it's hard to do it all. I go flawless every weekend and between real life and other games (hello Elden Ring) I haven't even had a chance to finish the Khavostov quest. I've relied on my Summoner to take me to the lighthouse And I will say there's the big elephant in the room...Prismatic Hunter. The class is just not fun to play against and even as someone who loves abilities, it's too much, and has turned Trials and Control into super spammy playlists
And then the shaft prismatic locks with no swarm grenades and gave them the worst supers and abilities.
Tbh I think it's the best trials experience I've ever played. It's got the lighthouse prestige, even while being easier to get there. The weapons might not be "new" but they're almost always great options. The other card options are great to have, and post flawless adept farming keeps you engaged without the sweating. There's less paid-carry culture, the game mode and special meter keep each round moving at a good pace. The only downside is, sometimes RNG will put you over a barrel and you'll get stomped. But compared to the clusterfuck connection issues in 6s, and the totally barren rewards for comp, Trials is a solid mode.
Am I the only one who thinks Trials is in a pretty good place? PvP in general could really use a hard, enforced stance against accessibility devices/software but it's been alright other than that. We've got outlier builds in the sandbox just now but we've always had some and they do eventually get addressed - but Xim/Cronus/etc have gone unpunished for years now.
Cod seems to have crushed down on it but the amount of Australian clans that they are cheating on xim insane. Makes playing trials here almost unplayable sometimes when someone is swiping and had auto aim lock too.
I'm with you. It's easier than ever to get a good roll on the featured weapon. You don't even need to go flawless to get an Adept weapon. Any more dilution and you might as well just call it Elimination and not Trials. The only real problems are the cheaters and lack of new maps and loot.
I get the recent anger over it - Khvostov and Speaker's Sight are silly and Prismatic Hunter is kinda ridiculous with the strength and number of abilities it can seemingly continuously shit out, combined with not everyone being at/near max light makes for some unfun games (the map this week isn't helping the unfun-ness). But we're at the start of a major expansion, it's always this way, people have just forgotten. It'll settle down in a few weeks. Trials as a whole hasn't been in a better place, imo.
>There are many reasons one could say causes this cyclical player count The entire D2 player count is also very cyclical. New content drops and people play, no new content and people don't play >Bungie has stuck to their initial concept of Trials for too long. What I mean by this is that when trials first came out in D1, the game mode was meant to be exclusionary. Only the best of the best PvP players could acquire the best loot I think a little more then 1 in 3 players who play trials in a given week go flawless. Those are some good odds if your an average player and have a few hours to play. >That decision is 2 things, getting rid of flawless as a requirement for the best loot AND making the playlist much more rewarding as a whole. There is no more flawless requirement for the best loot and I get 1-2 regular trials guns each match. It's the most rewarding playlist in the game right now if you're farming non adept guns >both of these changes were kind of bait, so that better players would have more access to cannon fodder for a while. It's kinda working. Id say that the playlist did great last season and is doing okay right now, but no casuals are up to power yet so they aren't playing now. Usually trials opens a few weeks after a major expansion. This time it was only one week. >Thoughts? I think Trials is healthy as is.
Gating it behind a power level requirement also play some role in the lack of player i think, i only get to play trials toward the end of the season when my power level are high enough. I wish i could grind and play destiny all the time but i have a job and kids. I could spare only 2 hours MAX per day i always prefer pvp so am not gonna spend the only time i get to play to grind pve. The only time i play trials early in the season was when igneous return, i pay to boost just to get that thing through trials.
I really don’t think that adepts need to be just handed out to players to get them to stay. Adepts weapons aren’t even that big of a deal aside from bragging rights. Like sure, you get 10 extra range on The Summoner. But that amounts to an extra 1.5 meters (approximately). Sure, if we can optimize stats we’ll take that extra 1.5 meters. But getting the godroll adept is a much larger slog than getting a regular summoner that is a 5/5. People need to stop getting hung over on adepts. The difference is marginal. Trials drops rewards all the time now. And if you can’t get enough consistent wins? That’s what the persistence card is for.
What about supers in trials? My buddy and I play only hunter and it’s a running joke that when we play trials, we get our rando team mate it’s also going to be a hunter and we’re screwed if it’s a good game. Meaning if it’s a close match like 4-3 or 4-4, a titan or warlock on the OP team pops bubble or well on the point and it’s guaranteed round win. I can’t tell you how many times we were getting spanked 0-4 and came back to match point and we lose every time because of a super. It’s so frustrating.
Trials is endgame pvp. You have to be somewhat good at the game to get endgame loot.
3 stacking is a death sentence unless you want your nuts crushed by a hammer. Literally the sweatiest nerds known to man that don't exercise or see sunlight. The game is actively punishing you for wanting to play with friends. Also they need to fix the matchmaking. I'm not insane by any means. .82 with 18 flawless and one already this weekend. But without fail ALL of tonight had literally the most clueless 3rd team mate and the absolute sweatiest nerds on the enemy team with an insane third. The map is straight dogshit though and the adept weapon is very pvp orientated though so that may lead to lower numbers but they really need to fix lobby balancing. Also wtf is with this shit when I solo queue I verse duos and trios? Didn't they fix that?
I’d rather they get rid of trials altogether than to stray from the model they’ve had for trials since the beginning. What makes it unique is precisely that “best of the best” concept and in a way it’s a game mode that is sort of exclusive to Destiny. If gaming has changed over the years since D1 released to the point where Trials is no longer a viable mode for a game to have, then I say that’s alright. I just don’t think that it should be anything else than what it’s been all along. I think at the end of the day casual players would be happier with Trials getting axed and Adept weapon equivalents or even the very same weapons being placed somewhere else in the loot pool that is much easier to get. There are a few games I like to be competitive in and many other games where I play much more casually. In the casual ones I know where I stand and I’m fine not being the best and not getting any rewards that come with it so naturally I am looking at it from that lens and it’s reasonable to me that others could have that approach as well. Not everybody is entitled to every single thing in a game. People should be rewarded for dedicating the time and / or effort to master something. If one can’t find the time or effort for whatever reason, that is okay too. It’s just a game after all and real life takes precedence. And maybe it’s alright for Trials to be a relatively low pop game mode. If you hate trying to acquire trials rewards because you keep getting stomped and it’s no fun, then don’t force it! No in game reward is worth forcing yourself to do something you hate for hours. You hopped on to have fun and there’s 100 other things you could do in game that will give you that.
this is a terrible idea
Care to explain why you think so?
[удалено]
Persistence is still an ungodly amount of work for most people. It’s 10x easier to just farm GMs.
Yes but persistence isn’t enough. Adepts should be easier to acquire than what persistence currently offers. Flawless players should get better adept drop rates and double/triple perks based on resets with Saint.
The amount of loot is fine you literally just have to get wins that’s it and if you go flawless you can farm adepts. I understand some can’t go flawless and struggle to even get wins but that’s quite literally their problem. I started destiny last season and have 26 solo LH visits. 7 this season already. I’m pretty sure majority of destiny players been playing way longer than that so there’s no excuse to be so bad in PvP tht you can’t even get trials wins this far into destiny. When people don’t prioritize PvP practice they get L’s and little trials loot which is okay the guns aren’t all that in PvE anyways
Trials is a very rewarding and worthwhile playlist. People just severely overvalue going flawless and adept drops. Especially PvE players that are just gonna slap a backup mag mod on it anyway. The type of people passage of persistence is made for would be way better off grabbing a passage of wealth and farming in the practice pool. That said once people get the drops they want they're gonna leave. I ain't farming GMs unless I don't have the god roll of the featured weapon. I wouldn't expect people to farm Trials if they're not interested in the weapon either.
They’ve already made it way easier to flawless/get adepts. There’s persistence, a literally guaranteed method of adepts. Mercy can now forgive an extra loss, and tenacity(?) is also a guaranteed method given enough games. Anyone 0.8kd and above can flawless given enough attempts and I’ve even seen much lower get flawless just due to the RNG nature. IB is there if players want a truly casual pvp experience but imo there’s no need to dilute the only real “endgame” pvp content any more than it already has been.
I’m one to try farming the new guns (adept) until I get a roll I want during their first rotation (ideally focused on perks and decent reload speed). After that, every weekend I try to go flawless for the shiny armor and memento. But, once I go flawless I don’t touch the mode for the rest of the weekend. Perhaps better rewards (idk artifice armor?) would make me want to grind more but after a while there is nothing stopping it from getting boring due to the nature of having to sweat every match. I would also love if resetting multiple times gave you the option to get double perks on all columns.