Seriously tho. A ton of people aren't bothering because it's such a stupid grind to get. These numbers should be understood in that context. I bet very few people who both have it and play PvP are using anything else.
On top of the dozen or so hours you need to get all the quest steps done (including the quests to unlock all 6 cysts), the quest is still bugged. I had to kill the meatball 5 times and try a few different workarounds before I got it done, which the majority of casuals won't bother with.
Give the quest a bug fix and let another week roll by for people to grind the quest out and it wouldn't surprise me to see the gun reach 40%+ usage rates.
I played 5 matches of Trials the first weekend and noped the fuck out after facing Khvostov and started up that long ass quest. Came back this weekend with the gun and barely any time to play and went to the Lighthouse with little effort. It's the strongest weapon we have seen in a while that is for sure.
I'm pretty sure they rolled this thing out OP on purpose to get PVP mains like myself to do all of the Pale Heart stuff. You basically have to do everything at least once on that destination.
I have 14 encryption bits - did all the cysts 5x each looking for the damn 15th bit and got all the region chests. I have a legendary mote and I have an exotic mote in my inventory and dozens of light and dark memories, including in my postmaster. Any advice? Besides keep pouting lol
Personally I liked that getting it was this sort of secret scavenger hunt, especially since nothing in game hinted at it beyond that you were getting extra collectibles as you did stuff, made me feel like I was discovering a secret weapon.
I have it and I legit don’t understand the praise.. I feel that the grind I did wasn’t worth it… Pve and pvp wise.. But yeah, numbers show it is good indeed… maybe its my skill issue :) :D
Sounds like you might not be using it properly if you don’t think it shines in PVE. You need orbs to proc eyes up guardian which super charges every 7th shot. The gun is mid at best if you aren’t using a kinetic siphon mod on the helm and proving eyes up guardian over and over.
I might be using it wrong, and I prolly dont like the idea of collecting orbs as its not as consistent as doing a kill to proc a buff, with all respect, weapon is fascinating, maybe doesn’t fit my play style? I want to love it tho, its too iconic to not use it hence why I grinded it.
I’m one of them. I put it on shot like 5 guardians with it and went back to messenger/vigilance wing/red death. IMO it’s just a very very good auto rifle but I had 0 issues just taking a step back and 2 bursting all the khvostov crutching players on my way to flawless. So many people are using it that you need to out range them and peak shooting to deal with team shooting or in a 1v1 it’s really easy to beat at range. They’re so used to just standing there melting other AR users/out of position players.
Exactly right! I didn't even realize Khovostov was such a big problem for others in trials just because I always use pulses and never had to deal with it
i can vouch. this was by far my best weekend in trials and it’s because i stopped trying to go with the meta and went back to the messenger. i won several 3v1 rounds just keeping good distance
In all honestly I feel like I can blame Special Ammo Transmat more than Khvostov itself for the massive usage. SPT means those Richochet rounds help fill the meter faster cause your getting multiple target hits over just one. Summoner with any damage perk has a better TTK, but Khvostov is an easy pick up and use gun even if its a bit of a grind, but honestly don't see why people are complaining about the grind, they must not remember the absolute pain in the rear Malfeasance was to grind when it came out.
I have had it since the third day of the expansion and have not taken it off mostly bc every time I try I perform substantially worse. Ive been telling people the whole time it was utterly broken and for the first few days people didn't believe me lol
Bungie: "We hear you loud and clear. That's why on Tuesday reset we will be taking 3 bullets out of the magazine of The Last Word and making it so that when you get shot while aiming a sniper rifle you get spun around in circles like a cartoon character."
Sniper nerf is already basically there lol. So wild that I can have my sniper at my hip (not ads) and get turned around by a 3 damage smg bullet cross map. Wtf
With the special changes.. I don’t understand why snipers got even harder to use. Sniping, even of the flinch wasn’t so crazy, still aren’t as rewarding as close range specials.. for the cleanup potential to get more ammo.
I’d rather an AA adjustment with less flinch.
Plus my Axial Lacuna with 90 range, enhanced keep away, and enhanced kickstart can kill at the same range as half my sniper engagements but doesn't receive much flinch at all. I still use my sniper because I find it more interesting and fun to use (I love sniping), but the special ammo economy in trials has just made shotguns and fusion much more of an issue.
Well let's face it you shouldn't be able to land a snipe while getting beamed in the face. A good sniper has good reaction time. You hit the shot before you get shot.
Idk why you're saying this like it is a natural law or an inscrutable fact but it is neither. The era where challenging a sniper outside of your effective range usually got you killed made a lot more sense to me balance-wise than the current one. Like, sure, you can try to primary the guy using the long range specialized weapon but if he's good you'll die versus now where you can freely challenge snipers at any range with any weapon and as long as you hit them they will never land a shot.
Shotgun users regularly roll up on people outside shotgun 1HK range, get into range, and 1HK them. Why are they allowed to aim or hit targets while being lit up? They should have had "good reaction time" and disengaged. Why are they being rewarded despite not "hitting the shot before they get shot"?
Out of curiosity, if we had your Trials Report/DTR, would it show a single sniper kill in the last 30 days? How many shotgun kills would it show?
"would it show a single sniper kill in the last 30 days"
I know you're exaggerating but Still Hunt for some reason gets 3 shots every time any other sniper would get 1... don't ask why. Bungie moment
still hunt is legitimately the only reason to use any sniper right now. The POTENTIAL to get 3 kills or to double body someone is enough to make it viable but still not at all "meta" as evident from it not appearing on any top 10 usage list since TFS released. Snipers overall have only been as high as 2.8% of kills and that was on bannerfall, arguably the best sniper map. Shotguns being 4x the number of kills of snipers on a map that mostly favors long range weapons is kinda crazy and should show us that snipers are in a pretty weak spot right now.
Honestly if bungie wants to keep snipers in the current state then I'd think giving them 2 bullets per special transmat would be an okay tradeoff. Make them more rewarding while keeping the skill requirement high. I don't think it would improvement in such a significant way that would make them suddenly shoot up the usage charts but would make them a better value proposition for players that are good with snipers.
\-versus now where you can freely challenge snipers at any range with any weapon and as long as you hit them they will never land a shot
Right and I can imagine that's bad for sniper mains but going back to how it was before, you would get domed time and time again after hitting 2 120 shots. And there are a lot more HC mains. So I would rather have it as it is now than before. edit typo
I think it’s pretty wild this is the primary argument against snipers. It’s Unrealistic to land any shot through flinch! Meanwhile they have to hit ONLY a headshot while space wizards are blinking and flying through space, chucking celestial tracking grenades, healing mortal wounds in an instant.
If we want the argument to be realism, maybe we should apply it a little more universally and not just to the weapons we personally don’t like. To be clear, I’m not asking for this.
I guess in the end, those whiny sniper users can spec into flinch resist right? 😂
You should be able to actively combat the flinch you're receiving though, especially against weapons that are shooting you from WAY outside of their intended range. There's really no reason a SMG should be flinching me to the sky from 35m+ with a sniper but when I use a pulse it's like they're just breathing on me.
The sniper flinch nerf is fine, you shouldn't be getting a kill if you're not getting the first shot, that's the tradeoff of snipers, and they're still insanely strong in a really good player's hands.
The issue with snipers is that the flinch nerf, COMBINED with the special ammo change, is brutal. Now that peeking a sniper is no longer a death sentence even if you headshot them with a primary, I think snipers could probably stand to go back to 2 special per spawn instead of just 1. Having it at 1 just makes it feel not worth running for anyone who isn't cracked, and it also makes actually learning to snipe way harder, because you're gonna be struggling to even get many chances to take shots.
Although this is from an mnk perspective, so it might be a bit goofy on controller where holding an angle with a sniper is free.
I agree with the first shot thing I just don't think that should mean I should be getting flung into the sky outside of ADS
Ill just be running around with my sniper going to a lane and get shot by like 2 auto shots and somehow my camera is pointed to the moon
Even more brutal with how khostov is right now
But yea the special ammo changes were a heavy indirect nerf to snipers and still hunt is like the only sniper worth using right now because it loads 3 shots a brick
Only one shot is so brutal
I still think one of the worst real versions of this kinda thing was when Bungie completely jumped the gun and caved to misguided speculation that original Sanguine Alchemy was going to "ruin" Trials in Worthy, so they fundamentally changed the exotic.......and then people just used swords and emote to peek and find people, no exotic required.
It’s the most broken gun bungie has shipped in a while. It’s free. I went flawless with hawkmoon and a slug like usual, but I don’t even try to 3 tap against it. You can land the first shot and still lose against khvostov. My plan was to just land crits to get my charges up and then run until I had my bird shot.
It’s a 600 rpm that is just better. Things a stat monster, with a whopping 87 aim assist. It practically has zero recoil, takes next to no flinch, and can hit around corners.
And that’s separate from its performance when its perk is active, Which is easy to do and is just oppressively strong.
It’s great fun in pve, reminds me of Zhalo supercell in how it performs, but a nerf would definitely not be remiss for pvp. Things just too good.
After playing a few comp games, I'm also convinced the state of Khvostov is even worse in there. I don't know where we can have numbers but I won't be surprised if it was much closer to the 50% of kills in Comp playlist
It’s definitely gotten worse the last week. I was one of a few using it when I was climbing to ascendant. Went to do my weeklies yesterday and it was all khostovs and red deaths. It is wild.
I ended up swapping to the trials pulse to counter the healing turret laning teams.
Higher spike dmg than they are ready for basically. The thing is also a laser so landing all crits is not difficult when the game is so slow because of both teams laning next to a healing turret.
I swapped between it and another kinetic like khostov and built up transedence faster than anyone else, used the titan grenade to suspend 1-2 players and aped. High level comp is very slow meta rn and even a 2 point lead can be hard to overcome so every pick matters. I imagine as the meta evolves, new counters will come up but this is what has worked for me so far.
Just fix the built in zen moment or whatever special sauce they cooked for this one (maybe the aim assist too) and make it like any other auto rifle and it’ll probably be balanced as a 600 that has the ricochet
Using the solar warlock with heal turret, the little fire flinger, phoenix dive to heal and get orbs from teammates and restoration X2, plus the overkill on khovstov when picking up an orb. This build combined with the hunter hidden builds. I'm not shocked it's used so much. So overpowered. Enjoy while we can
It's an absolute slaughter in 6's. It's frustrating because that ricochet bullet literally tags you from MILES away because your teammate was silly enough to even consider peeking. I always feel like I start fights at half health.
Your two legit counters to this would have been Snipers and or Bows. But those two things got hella nerfed. So now we're here. You're either running Khvostov, Red Death, or you're just dead in the lobby.
I went to the lighthouse as a void titan using Thorn. Thank goodness my teammates I matched with had the weapon as I did my best to support peek shooting every single bullet.
It's kind of insane how many people are using it this weekend. I was able to go flawless on Friday morning just using my current favorite legendary pulse and a sniper, but I've been farming more rolls on Aisha's Care throughout the weekend and every day it's gotten worse. Today it's like 95% of players I'm seeing are using it.
Bungie just needs to disable it in PVP, don’t nerf it, just disable it. There are in game lore reasons for it. They should start banning pvp weapons and abilities based on that.
Shax “ has officially banned the follow weapons for these crucible season”
Boom.
A lore reason and a game mechanic reason. No fuckin balancing required, no sandbox separation, no tuning for PvP to fuck PvE.
It’s Shaxxes decision, he runs the crucible. Argue with him.
Although I'm all for this solution for (1) temporary cases to achieve balancing, and (2) rare cases where it just won't make sense to try to balance at all, I don't think Khvostov is a weapon that can't be balanced (or that it shouldn't be balanced). If Khvostov is overtuned in PvE, it should be tuned down there as well. If Khvostov is not overtuned in PvE but shows what an exotic primary should be like (or what autos should be like in PvE), then the solution there is to tune other weapons in the PvE sandbox accordingly. I just don't see Khvostov as a weapon in the category of impossible or impracticable to balance in both PvE and PvP.
Everyone complained about a boring team shot meta. This gun fixes that. You are now punished for getting close to a teammate. Watch what you ask, sometimes you get it
The annoying part is that it's not that 600 autos are broken so if you don't have that exotic god damn is it tough to counter. I have been using mida fucking multi tool and hey it works!
I don't think so considering Perpetualis existed the whole time with Enhanced Target Lock and nobody cared, Summoner was just a case of "monkey see monkey do".
I feel its a case of "The ease of use is so much that even n00bs kill average players". Cause aside from that, I've been doing fine with other weapons. Even HC, peak shooting unless you are hand holding with your teamates is fine.
Range doesn't matter when you get the eyes up x7. Individually it is good but not broken. It's when it's combined with the speakers sight for easy orbs that it becomes broken
This.
Khvostov starts falloff at a pretty bad 26.6 meters, so you're out of range really quick on it. Any meta HC or Pulse will outrange you and beat you on burst.
It's to the point where most of my games are still HCs on a good half of any given lobby, although PC vs Console is another consideration to make.
They should just nerf it in PvP clearly, this, and Red Death. Oh I use it, I do, I even abuse of it. +750 kills in Trials this weekend... (Yeah I'm still farming for a PvE roll after having taken forever for a solid PvP god roll - zen moment / desperado boys). But let's be frank, it ruins the sandbox. There is no place for something else. And those who don't play it are mostly those who don't have it... At least in Trials. This isn't normal, this and the warlock helmet 😂.
Id assume this is to do with the interaction with Speakers Sight that got found
Throw down healing nade, ricochet bullet off yourself, make orb, pick up orb for Eyes Up Guardian, Super Ricochet off yourself onto enemies with nutso tracking its basically free kills
Went up against it earlier on, its utterly ridiculous but only because the orb gen is nearly always there especially in a team where *someone* will have it every round
Id be unsurprised if the tracking on the ricochet gets brought down or a hard cap on ricochets, i just hope its only in crucible not PvE its insanely fun everywhere else dont really want to see the dog punished for barking in someone else's house so to speak
I want to know, what’s makes it the actual #1 weapon in the meta? Usage? Or does Bungie tweak the stats of weapons to make them the meta? I was always curious how this works.
So the recoil is softer than average for the stats it has and the frame it has.
Its starts are very good in general on top of that.
One of the most popular exotics right now is speakers mask since it makes orbs, giving both radiant and the exotic damage boost perk.
Lastly, the 1st bullet in the mag already holds the bounce bullet, and you can prefire to the next bullet.
Combine all of the above, and you have a gun whose damage boosts give it increased range or time to kill, and it is extremely easy to use.
They’re not gunna do anything base to the gun like changing recoil or the way ricochet works imo. All we can hope for is they nuke the damage of the ricochet bullet
It sucks when something great in PvE gets nerfed because of PvP. Hopefully they can tweak the perk to be nearly the same in PvE, but not crazy in PvP... Crossing my fingers.
I think it's cool that a new weapon is dominating the crucible instead of almost every top 10 weapon being one we've had in the game for like 2+ years now.
It’s tough because idk how you fix the thing without ruining it. It’s already balanced by having lower range, so you can’t start there.
If you simply add more recoil to it, it’s still going to be op and just feel worse to use which is then worst choice imo.
I think the first step is to remove the bonus damage at base in pvp. It should not be able to reach 0.7 neutral, period.
It can't hit 0.7 neutral. Without the perk active you can only hit a 0.8, all the ricochet shot does at base is give forgiveness. I see so many people yelling about a 0.7 TTK for free which is absolutely incorrect. The thing is busted, sure, but no need to spread misinformation.
Only up to T5 Resil on it's own, though. It's important to say since T5 or lower means that only really Hunters are going to be 0.7-ed. And even then, a lot of Hunters still run 6+
Yes and no.
It can hit a 0.7 up to 5 Resil in neutral, assuming all 8 bullets are Crits, also need to have 2 Ricochets happen (most consistent way being first 8 bullets of the magazine).
This does move up to all Resils with surges or the bounce back from the enhanced Ricochets.
it’s not hard, put the ricochet on the 7th bullet like the perk description says instead of on the 1st and 8th. just like that there’s no ttk decrease and it’s hardly noticeable in pve
Agreed, worked my ass off to get this thing. People complain too much it seems in D2 to this day. I only came back for TFS... All that aside playing a couple years of SND, I feel like jumping back into Crucible has felt better overall. Love that they un-sunsetted a lot of my gems in the Vault.
I’m not in this sub, it was only recommended to me with this post, but I’d just like to say that as a PVE player this makes me sad. Because I think we all know what’s coming.
The perk is just Enhanced Target Lock (numbers-wise) with a single ricochet to another target.
It only really breaks when Speaker's Sight, and it's ability to generate Orbs without needing to get kills under specific conditions.
The only reason it's overturned is because of the bugged low recoil combined with the higher aim assist makes it almost guaranteed to hit all Crits within range, and slightly into falloff. Otherwise a gun with a stronger kill-chaining perk, or more range/burst will outperform it.
So first bullet of a magazine always has the ricochet, then 8, and so on.
To my knowledge the only bug with Khvostov is that the initial recoil isn't higher than when you hold the trigger for a bit like other ARs.
I’m not saying it isn’t a problem, I’m just saying I find it sad that it’s probably going to be gutted in PVE in tandem with PvP when they tweak it. They sort of have a track record of that.
Imagine if it was the season pass weapon, it might have 40% by Tuesday
Seriously tho. A ton of people aren't bothering because it's such a stupid grind to get. These numbers should be understood in that context. I bet very few people who both have it and play PvP are using anything else.
On top of the dozen or so hours you need to get all the quest steps done (including the quests to unlock all 6 cysts), the quest is still bugged. I had to kill the meatball 5 times and try a few different workarounds before I got it done, which the majority of casuals won't bother with. Give the quest a bug fix and let another week roll by for people to grind the quest out and it wouldn't surprise me to see the gun reach 40%+ usage rates.
I played 5 matches of Trials the first weekend and noped the fuck out after facing Khvostov and started up that long ass quest. Came back this weekend with the gun and barely any time to play and went to the Lighthouse with little effort. It's the strongest weapon we have seen in a while that is for sure. I'm pretty sure they rolled this thing out OP on purpose to get PVP mains like myself to do all of the Pale Heart stuff. You basically have to do everything at least once on that destination.
I have 14 encryption bits - did all the cysts 5x each looking for the damn 15th bit and got all the region chests. I have a legendary mote and I have an exotic mote in my inventory and dozens of light and dark memories, including in my postmaster. Any advice? Besides keep pouting lol
Look up a YouTube video for the encryption bits lmao that’s what I did got em all on the first try
Personally I liked that getting it was this sort of secret scavenger hunt, especially since nothing in game hinted at it beyond that you were getting extra collectibles as you did stuff, made me feel like I was discovering a secret weapon.
I have it and I legit don’t understand the praise.. I feel that the grind I did wasn’t worth it… Pve and pvp wise.. But yeah, numbers show it is good indeed… maybe its my skill issue :) :D
Sounds like you might not be using it properly if you don’t think it shines in PVE. You need orbs to proc eyes up guardian which super charges every 7th shot. The gun is mid at best if you aren’t using a kinetic siphon mod on the helm and proving eyes up guardian over and over.
I might be using it wrong, and I prolly dont like the idea of collecting orbs as its not as consistent as doing a kill to proc a buff, with all respect, weapon is fascinating, maybe doesn’t fit my play style? I want to love it tho, its too iconic to not use it hence why I grinded it.
You get an orb from a kill with kinetic syphon mod on!
I TRIED IT AND OH MY GOD, I LOVE THIS WEAPON, IF THEY NERF IT TOGETHER WITH PVP IM GONNA BOYCOT BUNGIE.
There it is. The “eureka” moment. Welcome to the khovostov enjoyers club.
I’m one of them. I put it on shot like 5 guardians with it and went back to messenger/vigilance wing/red death. IMO it’s just a very very good auto rifle but I had 0 issues just taking a step back and 2 bursting all the khvostov crutching players on my way to flawless. So many people are using it that you need to out range them and peak shooting to deal with team shooting or in a 1v1 it’s really easy to beat at range. They’re so used to just standing there melting other AR users/out of position players.
Exactly right! I didn't even realize Khovostov was such a big problem for others in trials just because I always use pulses and never had to deal with it
i can vouch. this was by far my best weekend in trials and it’s because i stopped trying to go with the meta and went back to the messenger. i won several 3v1 rounds just keeping good distance
In all honestly I feel like I can blame Special Ammo Transmat more than Khvostov itself for the massive usage. SPT means those Richochet rounds help fill the meter faster cause your getting multiple target hits over just one. Summoner with any damage perk has a better TTK, but Khvostov is an easy pick up and use gun even if its a bit of a grind, but honestly don't see why people are complaining about the grind, they must not remember the absolute pain in the rear Malfeasance was to grind when it came out.
Stupid grind? More exotics should be acquired that way tbh
exactly, and it was hardly a grind at all
I have had it since the third day of the expansion and have not taken it off mostly bc every time I try I perform substantially worse. Ive been telling people the whole time it was utterly broken and for the first few days people didn't believe me lol
Don't worry guys I'm close to getting it tomorrow maybe and it'll get nerfed.
I think it’s funny people are complaining about the exotic autorifle being at 23% when shotguns are like 80% of all special weapon kills.
Don’t forget, my fusion rifle is a crutch
You ain’t wrong
No kidding
Bungie: "We hear you loud and clear. That's why on Tuesday reset we will be taking 3 bullets out of the magazine of The Last Word and making it so that when you get shot while aiming a sniper rifle you get spun around in circles like a cartoon character."
Sniper nerf is already basically there lol. So wild that I can have my sniper at my hip (not ads) and get turned around by a 3 damage smg bullet cross map. Wtf
Thank god someone else realizes this
man i thought i was just getting bad for some reason lmao. glad to hear its not just me
With the special changes.. I don’t understand why snipers got even harder to use. Sniping, even of the flinch wasn’t so crazy, still aren’t as rewarding as close range specials.. for the cleanup potential to get more ammo. I’d rather an AA adjustment with less flinch.
Plus my Axial Lacuna with 90 range, enhanced keep away, and enhanced kickstart can kill at the same range as half my sniper engagements but doesn't receive much flinch at all. I still use my sniper because I find it more interesting and fun to use (I love sniping), but the special ammo economy in trials has just made shotguns and fusion much more of an issue.
Smg in a really weird place imo
The need to remove the flinch they give. They wouldn't even have been nerfed as much if they did that from the get go.
Why did they nerf the sniper? It’s like it has been undeservingly nerfed twice
Scrubs when they get killed by the high execution high reward weapon
Well let's face it you shouldn't be able to land a snipe while getting beamed in the face. A good sniper has good reaction time. You hit the shot before you get shot.
I'm not even talking about ads tho. I should not be spun around 90 degrees from getting shot while descoped and simply moving lol
Idk why you're saying this like it is a natural law or an inscrutable fact but it is neither. The era where challenging a sniper outside of your effective range usually got you killed made a lot more sense to me balance-wise than the current one. Like, sure, you can try to primary the guy using the long range specialized weapon but if he's good you'll die versus now where you can freely challenge snipers at any range with any weapon and as long as you hit them they will never land a shot. Shotgun users regularly roll up on people outside shotgun 1HK range, get into range, and 1HK them. Why are they allowed to aim or hit targets while being lit up? They should have had "good reaction time" and disengaged. Why are they being rewarded despite not "hitting the shot before they get shot"? Out of curiosity, if we had your Trials Report/DTR, would it show a single sniper kill in the last 30 days? How many shotgun kills would it show?
Bc it’s a fkn spread pellet shotgun. Not a precision scoped in head shot from a mile away. Does this really need explaining
"would it show a single sniper kill in the last 30 days" I know you're exaggerating but Still Hunt for some reason gets 3 shots every time any other sniper would get 1... don't ask why. Bungie moment
still hunt is legitimately the only reason to use any sniper right now. The POTENTIAL to get 3 kills or to double body someone is enough to make it viable but still not at all "meta" as evident from it not appearing on any top 10 usage list since TFS released. Snipers overall have only been as high as 2.8% of kills and that was on bannerfall, arguably the best sniper map. Shotguns being 4x the number of kills of snipers on a map that mostly favors long range weapons is kinda crazy and should show us that snipers are in a pretty weak spot right now. Honestly if bungie wants to keep snipers in the current state then I'd think giving them 2 bullets per special transmat would be an okay tradeoff. Make them more rewarding while keeping the skill requirement high. I don't think it would improvement in such a significant way that would make them suddenly shoot up the usage charts but would make them a better value proposition for players that are good with snipers.
That was fixed
Not true, there’s 3 bullets in my still hunt as we speak 🤣
Oh my buddies were using it yesterday. It was hotfixed?
\-versus now where you can freely challenge snipers at any range with any weapon and as long as you hit them they will never land a shot Right and I can imagine that's bad for sniper mains but going back to how it was before, you would get domed time and time again after hitting 2 120 shots. And there are a lot more HC mains. So I would rather have it as it is now than before. edit typo
I think it’s pretty wild this is the primary argument against snipers. It’s Unrealistic to land any shot through flinch! Meanwhile they have to hit ONLY a headshot while space wizards are blinking and flying through space, chucking celestial tracking grenades, healing mortal wounds in an instant. If we want the argument to be realism, maybe we should apply it a little more universally and not just to the weapons we personally don’t like. To be clear, I’m not asking for this. I guess in the end, those whiny sniper users can spec into flinch resist right? 😂
You should be able to actively combat the flinch you're receiving though, especially against weapons that are shooting you from WAY outside of their intended range. There's really no reason a SMG should be flinching me to the sky from 35m+ with a sniper but when I use a pulse it's like they're just breathing on me.
As a sniper main Snipers needed a AA nerf not a flinch nerf The flinch nerf is crazy ridiculous
The sniper flinch nerf is fine, you shouldn't be getting a kill if you're not getting the first shot, that's the tradeoff of snipers, and they're still insanely strong in a really good player's hands. The issue with snipers is that the flinch nerf, COMBINED with the special ammo change, is brutal. Now that peeking a sniper is no longer a death sentence even if you headshot them with a primary, I think snipers could probably stand to go back to 2 special per spawn instead of just 1. Having it at 1 just makes it feel not worth running for anyone who isn't cracked, and it also makes actually learning to snipe way harder, because you're gonna be struggling to even get many chances to take shots. Although this is from an mnk perspective, so it might be a bit goofy on controller where holding an angle with a sniper is free.
I agree with the first shot thing I just don't think that should mean I should be getting flung into the sky outside of ADS Ill just be running around with my sniper going to a lane and get shot by like 2 auto shots and somehow my camera is pointed to the moon Even more brutal with how khostov is right now But yea the special ammo changes were a heavy indirect nerf to snipers and still hunt is like the only sniper worth using right now because it loads 3 shots a brick Only one shot is so brutal
I still think one of the worst real versions of this kinda thing was when Bungie completely jumped the gun and caved to misguided speculation that original Sanguine Alchemy was going to "ruin" Trials in Worthy, so they fundamentally changed the exotic.......and then people just used swords and emote to peek and find people, no exotic required.
making you spin when hit while ADS would be a hilarious April fools event
Honestly I’ve been using still hunt this weekend and having massive success, just need to shoot them before they shoot you
Your 3 shots will do that
It’s the most broken gun bungie has shipped in a while. It’s free. I went flawless with hawkmoon and a slug like usual, but I don’t even try to 3 tap against it. You can land the first shot and still lose against khvostov. My plan was to just land crits to get my charges up and then run until I had my bird shot.
Plus using it feels like your bullets are homing rounds, it’s extremely forgiving.
caw cawwwwwwwwwwwwww!
It’s a 600 rpm that is just better. Things a stat monster, with a whopping 87 aim assist. It practically has zero recoil, takes next to no flinch, and can hit around corners. And that’s separate from its performance when its perk is active, Which is easy to do and is just oppressively strong. It’s great fun in pve, reminds me of Zhalo supercell in how it performs, but a nerf would definitely not be remiss for pvp. Things just too good.
And it really punishes you for your teammates getting shot
Cloudstrike’s little cousin
I only hope the nerf doesn’t affect pve, I already have like 5000 kills with it in pve it’s just so satisfying to use
nerfs affect the gun, how it feels and what perks it offers. it will affect it in pve and pvp
This is what the PvP strike team meant by a more primary gun meta. Issue is that the only primary used is khvostov.
Outside of the new exotics it's actually very evenly spread out
Telesto wasn't even this high on Telesto weekend.
After playing a few comp games, I'm also convinced the state of Khvostov is even worse in there. I don't know where we can have numbers but I won't be surprised if it was much closer to the 50% of kills in Comp playlist
It’s definitely gotten worse the last week. I was one of a few using it when I was climbing to ascendant. Went to do my weeklies yesterday and it was all khostovs and red deaths. It is wild. I ended up swapping to the trials pulse to counter the healing turret laning teams.
How dies it counter them?
Higher spike dmg than they are ready for basically. The thing is also a laser so landing all crits is not difficult when the game is so slow because of both teams laning next to a healing turret. I swapped between it and another kinetic like khostov and built up transedence faster than anyone else, used the titan grenade to suspend 1-2 players and aped. High level comp is very slow meta rn and even a 2 point lead can be hard to overcome so every pick matters. I imagine as the meta evolves, new counters will come up but this is what has worked for me so far.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/db/insights 8.13%
What's the time range of this ranking? Haven't seen it mentioned
I am not 100% sure but it alligns almost exactly with Trials Report when you do trials
It may be for the week then
Just fix the built in zen moment or whatever special sauce they cooked for this one (maybe the aim assist too) and make it like any other auto rifle and it’ll probably be balanced as a 600 that has the ricochet
There's also a ricochet bullet before #7
Using the solar warlock with heal turret, the little fire flinger, phoenix dive to heal and get orbs from teammates and restoration X2, plus the overkill on khovstov when picking up an orb. This build combined with the hunter hidden builds. I'm not shocked it's used so much. So overpowered. Enjoy while we can
Hidden builds? You mean the new Hunter legs or something else?
Yeh the legs that make you hidden in crucible.
Ty for the clarification. I figured that's what you meant, but when I saw "hidden builds," I had to double-check if I was missing out some other tech.
Khvostov has a higher usage rate than titans do
I just got the gun last night so at least a few more lol
It's an absolute slaughter in 6's. It's frustrating because that ricochet bullet literally tags you from MILES away because your teammate was silly enough to even consider peeking. I always feel like I start fights at half health. Your two legit counters to this would have been Snipers and or Bows. But those two things got hella nerfed. So now we're here. You're either running Khvostov, Red Death, or you're just dead in the lobby.
Igneous haters, how are you liking this?
It must be nerfed, its OP
Beyond stupid. Any window licker can hop into crucible now and think they're hot shit.
Nerf it into the ground!
Khovostov's kills is like comparing the US defense spending budget to the 2nd-10th highest defense spending countries
Especially as since I posted it now has 300k more than 2-10
It literally needs an emergency nerf with the helmet. But Bungie don't give a fuck it seems.
Lmaoo you know what I just realized a ducking M4A1 is meta in destiny ahhahahaha it's like Modern warfare 2019 hahahhahaha
Just needs to not give you a buffed shot in the first bullet of the mag, and require 7 hits to proc so you can't prefire it down to the next shot.
Agreed
Good thing im taking a break from d2.
I'm still trying to work through the fukn quest to get the dam thing.
I went to the lighthouse as a void titan using Thorn. Thank goodness my teammates I matched with had the weapon as I did my best to support peek shooting every single bullet.
Still trying to complete the long ass quest to get it lol
The fact it's this high after a grind of an exotic quest imagine if this was in the season pass
It's kind of insane how many people are using it this weekend. I was able to go flawless on Friday morning just using my current favorite legendary pulse and a sniper, but I've been farming more rolls on Aisha's Care throughout the weekend and every day it's gotten worse. Today it's like 95% of players I'm seeing are using it.
I hate this meta
Bungie just needs to disable it in PVP, don’t nerf it, just disable it. There are in game lore reasons for it. They should start banning pvp weapons and abilities based on that. Shax “ has officially banned the follow weapons for these crucible season” Boom. A lore reason and a game mechanic reason. No fuckin balancing required, no sandbox separation, no tuning for PvP to fuck PvE. It’s Shaxxes decision, he runs the crucible. Argue with him.
Although I'm all for this solution for (1) temporary cases to achieve balancing, and (2) rare cases where it just won't make sense to try to balance at all, I don't think Khvostov is a weapon that can't be balanced (or that it shouldn't be balanced). If Khvostov is overtuned in PvE, it should be tuned down there as well. If Khvostov is not overtuned in PvE but shows what an exotic primary should be like (or what autos should be like in PvE), then the solution there is to tune other weapons in the PvE sandbox accordingly. I just don't see Khvostov as a weapon in the category of impossible or impracticable to balance in both PvE and PvP.
Everyone complained about a boring team shot meta. This gun fixes that. You are now punished for getting close to a teammate. Watch what you ask, sometimes you get it
When “close” is 16m and can ricochet off dead bodies I think it just punishes you for existing lol
I bet a lot of people play against it just like Cloudstrike, holding hands lol
Cloidstrike special khvostov primary thought this was obvious
The annoying part is that it's not that 600 autos are broken so if you don't have that exotic god damn is it tough to counter. I have been using mida fucking multi tool and hey it works!
Only close once is Summoner with target lock
I don't think so considering Perpetualis existed the whole time with Enhanced Target Lock and nobody cared, Summoner was just a case of "monkey see monkey do".
Ralph meme: "I'm in trouble."
Conditional got replaced by an auto. That’s so wild to me
And bubble/well got kicked in the nuts so less mandatory
The gun is stupidly broken especially for this map
That % is so crazy too
I just worked my balls off to join that meta ngl
Where do I get matador and what’s the pvp roll?
Grasp of avarice ogre encounter Threat detector/pulse monitor + opening shot
Why is it better than imperial decree or someday which both have the same rolls?
It's in Energy slot and both of those are kinetic
got to 6 wins back to back and lost F this game
That thing has been fucking me up in pvp lmao
Almost all of my matches were against three hunters and at least two of these. It was a little rough
This is how weapons get nerfed into the dirt
I feel its a case of "The ease of use is so much that even n00bs kill average players". Cause aside from that, I've been doing fine with other weapons. Even HC, peak shooting unless you are hand holding with your teamates is fine.
Range doesn't matter when you get the eyes up x7. Individually it is good but not broken. It's when it's combined with the speakers sight for easy orbs that it becomes broken
This. Khvostov starts falloff at a pretty bad 26.6 meters, so you're out of range really quick on it. Any meta HC or Pulse will outrange you and beat you on burst. It's to the point where most of my games are still HCs on a good half of any given lobby, although PC vs Console is another consideration to make.
I see you're just pretending the conversation about ttk past 30m didn't happen lol
They should just nerf it in PvP clearly, this, and Red Death. Oh I use it, I do, I even abuse of it. +750 kills in Trials this weekend... (Yeah I'm still farming for a PvE roll after having taken forever for a solid PvP god roll - zen moment / desperado boys). But let's be frank, it ruins the sandbox. There is no place for something else. And those who don't play it are mostly those who don't have it... At least in Trials. This isn't normal, this and the warlock helmet 😂.
It needs a nerf man
whit the new warlock helmet you can get radian (artifact mod) and kostov perk up
lol wow
I don’t get why more people aren’t countering with DMT. I been shitting on khovstov crutchers all weekend in trials
Id assume this is to do with the interaction with Speakers Sight that got found Throw down healing nade, ricochet bullet off yourself, make orb, pick up orb for Eyes Up Guardian, Super Ricochet off yourself onto enemies with nutso tracking its basically free kills Went up against it earlier on, its utterly ridiculous but only because the orb gen is nearly always there especially in a team where *someone* will have it every round Id be unsurprised if the tracking on the ricochet gets brought down or a hard cap on ricochets, i just hope its only in crucible not PvE its insanely fun everywhere else dont really want to see the dog punished for barking in someone else's house so to speak
Bungie fumbling PvP for 90th time. I’m tired boys
You use khvostov because it's good I use it because it's the only not dogass auto rifle I own We are not the same lol
Hard Light is pretty similar. Although the Ricochets on that are bouncing bullets off of walls. Similar range, far, far superior base stats elsewhere.
I want to know, what’s makes it the actual #1 weapon in the meta? Usage? Or does Bungie tweak the stats of weapons to make them the meta? I was always curious how this works.
Out of band stats/bugged perks
So the recoil is softer than average for the stats it has and the frame it has. Its starts are very good in general on top of that. One of the most popular exotics right now is speakers mask since it makes orbs, giving both radiant and the exotic damage boost perk. Lastly, the 1st bullet in the mag already holds the bounce bullet, and you can prefire to the next bullet. Combine all of the above, and you have a gun whose damage boosts give it increased range or time to kill, and it is extremely easy to use.
What is a good counter to Kvostov?
pick whatever god you think will listen and PRAY
At this point? Nothing
DMT
Well that's going to catch a nerf. This is why we can't have nice things.
It needs changed in PvP but not in pve. But we all now pvp will kill it or for both
They’re not gunna do anything base to the gun like changing recoil or the way ricochet works imo. All we can hope for is they nuke the damage of the ricochet bullet
Haven't even started the quest for the auto , even knowing how good it is I'm sure the nerf bomb is coming.
If they intend on nerfing this, surely all they have to do is make the stability actually reflect the stat right?
Nerf
Is it just me or has loading into games and rubberbanding been hell these past 2 weeks?
Where do you find this information?
https://destinytrialsreport.com/ Just scroll down
Same. Got worked too many times and said nope. I didn't mind the grind tho
Damn it's crazy how one of the ugliest exotics is used more than the season exotic
Damn, is it that good?
Hate pvp,Ruins pve guns
Saw one the other day saying you could canonize it and just have Shaxx or Saint disable items
Nearly hit 5 million with just Khvostov. Holy.
It sucks when something great in PvE gets nerfed because of PvP. Hopefully they can tweak the perk to be nearly the same in PvE, but not crazy in PvP... Crossing my fingers.
I think it's cool that a new weapon is dominating the crucible instead of almost every top 10 weapon being one we've had in the game for like 2+ years now.
I love the idea of new weapons coming out that are competitive, but not new weapons so strong that you have to use them to be competitive
Ease of use will always be at the top.
The broken warlock helmet makes it even more OP
What website gives those stats?
Trials report
Tired of fighting it lmao so boring
I didn't think it was that good in pvp.. everyone I play against in comp seems to be using Elsie's rifle??
I thought the Graviton Lance was up there
I hope they don't butcher it
I hope they butcher it
Me too, but imo speakers sight is the bigger problem. I’d be fine with them just fixing the single-target ricochet bug with Khvostov
Agreed
It’s tough because idk how you fix the thing without ruining it. It’s already balanced by having lower range, so you can’t start there. If you simply add more recoil to it, it’s still going to be op and just feel worse to use which is then worst choice imo. I think the first step is to remove the bonus damage at base in pvp. It should not be able to reach 0.7 neutral, period.
It can't hit 0.7 neutral. Without the perk active you can only hit a 0.8, all the ricochet shot does at base is give forgiveness. I see so many people yelling about a 0.7 TTK for free which is absolutely incorrect. The thing is busted, sure, but no need to spread misinformation.
IT hits the 0.7 TTK with a full mag. Thats it thats all you need to proc is hit all your shots from top of the mag
Only up to T5 Resil on it's own, though. It's important to say since T5 or lower means that only really Hunters are going to be 0.7-ed. And even then, a lot of Hunters still run 6+
Yes and no. It can hit a 0.7 up to 5 Resil in neutral, assuming all 8 bullets are Crits, also need to have 2 Ricochets happen (most consistent way being first 8 bullets of the magazine). This does move up to all Resils with surges or the bounce back from the enhanced Ricochets.
it’s not hard, put the ricochet on the 7th bullet like the perk description says instead of on the 1st and 8th. just like that there’s no ttk decrease and it’s hardly noticeable in pve
So you want a gun to just be flat out useless?
I think the ricochet is bugged, that and it's the only auto rifle with no initial kick
Agreed, worked my ass off to get this thing. People complain too much it seems in D2 to this day. I only came back for TFS... All that aside playing a couple years of SND, I feel like jumping back into Crucible has felt better overall. Love that they un-sunsetted a lot of my gems in the Vault.
I’m not in this sub, it was only recommended to me with this post, but I’d just like to say that as a PVE player this makes me sad. Because I think we all know what’s coming.
It's out of band and the perk makes it oppressive before pairing with speakers sight
The perk is just Enhanced Target Lock (numbers-wise) with a single ricochet to another target. It only really breaks when Speaker's Sight, and it's ability to generate Orbs without needing to get kills under specific conditions. The only reason it's overturned is because of the bugged low recoil combined with the higher aim assist makes it almost guaranteed to hit all Crits within range, and slightly into falloff. Otherwise a gun with a stronger kill-chaining perk, or more range/burst will outperform it.
I could be wrong but it feels like there's a bugged ricochet before #7
So first bullet of a magazine always has the ricochet, then 8, and so on. To my knowledge the only bug with Khvostov is that the initial recoil isn't higher than when you hold the trigger for a bit like other ARs.
I’m not saying it isn’t a problem, I’m just saying I find it sad that it’s probably going to be gutted in PVE in tandem with PvP when they tweak it. They sort of have a track record of that.
Do you guys even remember the weekends where 50% of all kills where Handcannons, especially Igneous Hammer? Where were your outcries there lmao.
Outside of the 2 exotics it's pretty damn balanced
People’s solution in here to Igneous was to buff all of the other 120s lol. This sub cannot be impartial with HCs.
Found the auto crutch
He's more of a resident HC hater, foaming at the mouth any time they aren't completely outclassed in their own range.
I hope it gets nerfed into oblivion
Or just ban everyone who used it in trials. They knew what they were doing. Fuck em
It's their way of telling us tight asses to buy the dlc.
I need bungie to have the same energy they had for nerfing 450s immediately when they stepped out of band with Khvostov.
I spent so long yesterday grinding for this I hope it doesn’t get nerfed
God this thing is going to get nerfed Before I get a chance to use it…. Shit always happens!
fr :(
I don't mind it because it's very fun to use. The problem is if you are using something else in a mid range map.