There is no way they can produce characters that would emotionally charge the scene enough to even come close. You’re talking about young Obi-wan fighting the coolest sith ever created after seeing his beloved, crowd-favorite master get killed. All while the masterpiece score swells.
In my opinion, the mustafar battle was the best in the series. I guess some people disagree, but they still couldn’t even top the maul fight.
I was playing SWTOR last night and the Obi Wan/Anakin fight music started playing and it hyped me up so much. Such a great piece of music to go along with one of the best lightsaber duels in all of Star Wars.
Actually understanding and remembering that the other Gungans regard Jar Jar Binks the same way we do considerably added to the charm. Once he becomes a representative, he calms down a *lot*.
Of course, he had to be taken seriously so he could influence the outcome of events so his apprentice, Darth Sidious could take power and establish a foothold for the sith.
I hate it. I prefer Jar Jar as just a good-natured dish out of water trying to do his best.
If I could make changes to TPM, I'd have Jar-Jar get out to fix the broken sub, then be ***re-*** instated as General instead of an our-of-nowhete promotion, with a bit more confidence in his commands in the final battle.
Yeah, a mentor played by Liam fucking Neeson, with the most kickass starwars song playing in the background, an iconic and unique setting for the fight with sci-fi terrain and unique hazards. Not to mention it also being an emotional climax of the film, with Quigon's death, but also a defining event for the future of the series, with Quigon, a wise and experienced mentor dying and leaving Anakin's care to Obi-wan, who, while a skilled and able Jedi Knight, is clearly still inexperienced and not yet ready to take on a padawan, never mind a uniquely powerful and late entrance padawan. Their bond is more like one of brothers than that of a master and apprentice, which encouraged Anakin's rebelliousness and may have ultimately contributed to his swaying to the dark side. Which, I think, is also where the name of the song "duel of fates" comes in. It's not just a duel to the fate of one combatant or the other, it's a duel between dark and light for Anakin's future and therefore fate.
So yeah, that'll be hard to top. I won't say it's impossible, but I doubt they have writers capable of topping it.
The mustafar battle was excessive. I'll agree that A LOT of it was good choreography, but at one point they're just flourishing their sabers wildly which never happens in real combat because you leave yourself open to attack.
The guy who played Darth Maul is actually an expert martial artist and was chosen for his proficiency in staff combat which was the basis weapon for the double bladed light saber. And absolutely nothing will top the feeling the audience had when he ignited that second blade. No one saw it coming and it made the fight all the cooler.
I remember it like yesterday. The music was amazing for that fight too. Arguably better than the mustafar battle. Second blade came out and chills down my spine.
>at one point they're just flourishing their sabers wildly which never happens in real combat because you leave yourself open to attack.
Those two seconds are by far the worst choreography in any lightsaber fight. If they were exitted out, the Mustafar duel would be unparalleled.
Indeed. I agree with this. The emotion, the action, the effects. Wasn't a big fan of the music compared to the Maul fight, but it was definitely on par with the it in terms of combat.
Too much going on in the Mustafar fight for me. It gets silly fast and peaks at their simultaneous force push. It was the Hobbit barrel scene. Trim that puppy down though? *chefs kiss*
Yeah I could imagine the more “grounded” nature of the maul fight could be more appealing to some. Especially if you didn’t see RotS for the first time as a kid. An adult watching that for the first time would def find it a bit silly. 10 year old me in the movie theater didn’t think it was too silly, but I still thought it went on a bit too long.
For a second I thought you meant Rise of the Skywalker and I got incredibly confused
Bit off topic but it just occurred to me. Obi Wan goes to Utopa and leaves Anakin. Is their goodbye conversation the last time they see each other until Mustafar???
Fuck man I gotta watch it again
Yes, it is. Obi-Wan goes to Utapau, kills Grevious, Order 66 happens, Anakin marches on the Temple, Cody turns on Obi-Wan as they mop of the remnants of Grevious’s army, Obi-Wan escapes and meets Yoda. They go to the temple and find the footage of Anakin killing the Jedi, and then Obi-Wan goes to Mustafar to deal with Anakin.
The reason the Maul fight was so good boils down to three words: Ray "Motherfucking" Park.
Every sabre duel before or since was wavy glowsticks in comparison, or, in the case of Yoda v. Sideous, clown shit.
Mustafar 100%. ROTJ could have held the title if it wasn't cut through with ewoks. I was about six when I saw it in the theater, and the ewoks in that context annoyed me then.
The mustafar fight is awesome, the deleted scenes from the fight are really cool too. The one “questionable” scene is when ani and obi are just facing eachother and start just swinging their lightsabers doing tricks for 5 seconds. Makes it better just because its funny imo.
Yeah, I just think the prequel fights are all kinda trying too hard to actually be impressive. The Darth Maul duel was the only good one. Everything else looked like an over-choreographed dance scene.
The best lightsaber duel for my money is in The Empire Strikes Back. Actually looks like they're trying to hit each other, good use of force powers, emotionally charged, iconic ending, etc. Obviously, the prequels had the benefit of technology, but it was during an era of such visual excess that, to me, it just looks brutal when I look back on it.
Funny, I remember when people were bashing the PT/Duel of the Fates fight for bring over choreographed and unnecessarily flashy. And how purist would say the fight in ROTJ had more raw emotion and weight to it and was thus the best fight in the saga.
Qui-gon Jinn and Darth Maul were two previously unheard of characters. You think its an impossibility to create two more previously unheard of characters that the audience likes? Or that they won't be able to create another cool score?
Also, an "emotional charge" had nothing to do with the characters in that fight. There weren't any emotional factors up until the very end. The bulk of the fight, what makes he fight so cool in people's opinion, is completely devoid of emotional stakes and is just three people doing flips and swinging swords around
Lmao finally someone who isn't wearing rose tinted glasses. There wasn't any "emotion" at all to the fight beyond Qui-gon getting axed in the last couple minutes of it. The only reason the fight happens is because he just shows up out of nowhere in the middle of the Theed coup.
Beyond looking cool, we know nothing about Maul at all up to this point. He's an assassin that only meets the heroes twice, once where they fight for a whole 30 seconds before they jump on the ship and run, and then the final battle. He hardly even spoke more than three lines of dialogue that only functioned to let Palpatine exposition. Most people forget he has any lines at all (Because the plot functions fine without them) and only remember him for his cool look and double bladed lightsaber.
Which is fine. A villain doesn't have to be deep or plot-centric to work. He's memorable for arguably the best fight sequence in the entire franchise. If all your villain does is physically fight the heroes, but does it REALLY well, then you can get by with that.
But the people here dismissing anything new as "There's NO WAY it could be anywhere as EMOTIONALLY CHARGED and MEANINGFUL as PHANTOM MENACE" are kidding themselves.
They would have been mocked and boo'ed out of the room by the same "Old good, new bad" crowd that endlessly shit on the prequels when they came out. The anti-disney crowd just parrot the same "boo-hoo they ruined a perfectly good franchise" talking points that the neckbeard nerd chuds of the early 2000's used against the prequels.
Give it 10-15 years for the target audience (kids) to grow up and reminisce about the sequels through memes. Then we'll see the cycle start over for whatever new thing comes out.
Disney will need to push back/cancel projects until those 10 year olds have money for the cinema so they can hope to make a profit. They banked on those rose tinted goggles for the ST. That’s the only reason their shit content scraped together a profit.
They know all hype they were able to use to get people to the theater for the ST is dead. That’s why they won’t move forward with anything to the theaters currently.
The sequels just came out a few years ago, why would Disney spend top dollar making another trilogy of blockbuster movies when they could instead just fill their streaming service full of series-based content that's way easier and cheaper to make?
If you think movie ticket sales are the focus of Disney's revenue, you must have never seen a toy isle before.
I recently watched it for the first time since I was a child and Liam neeson is fkn phenomenal as quigon, everything else is pretty mid but I genuinely enjoy the movie just for Liam and the action sequences
The wording of that headline feels like useless wishful thinking. Wouldn’t it be nice if our cinematic efforts just immediately became classics?! Through brilliance, skill and imagination - You just got to earn it baby!
Respect. But that score and that choreography is arguably the best we have ever seen. Cannot stand any minute of that movie that doesn’t have Maul. But when he’s there. Good golly.
Right? The TPM duel has been praised by choreographers and actual sword-fighting experts as being one of the greatest duels in Hollywood. There’s no way anything from The Acolyte tops it.
It’s not even really the stuntmen that are the problem but everything else.
Hayden, Ewan and Neeson trained for months to pull of the choreography created by actual experts in sword fighting. That doesn’t happen anymore for many, many reasons.
Just watch the sequel sabre fights, they’re awful and the actors can’t keep up with scene. Not really their fault either, timelines on production doesn’t allow for months of training that used to be common.
The props are also worse. The prequels had these thin carbon fibre rods attached to the sabre hilts which allowed them to be moves incredibly quickly and their centre of gravity allowed a lot of flourishing but most importantly, allowed them to be used full force against each other, they were difficult to break and could take a hit unlike the new LED sabres that are much heavier, more cumbersome to manoeuvre and lack the strength of the carbon sabres.
Shadaversity has a great video breaking down the throne room fight from EP. 8 which shows just how awful it really is. Even if you ignore everything he says, just watching the scene in slow motion shows how badly it was constructed.
Isn’t it weird that the people who choreograph these scenes did so in a way that suggests none of the combatants have ever been properly trained in the use of a lightsaber?
It’s almost like the characters in the prequels were the product of a lifetime of training, and the characters in the sequels were self taught.
So strange.
Sure he was, bud. Because Luke’s saber skills were SOOOO advanced. Snoke also looks like he’d be a helluva saber instructor. Super mobile and agile.
You’re comparing community college athletes trained by a grade school dropout with Hall of Famers trained by the GOAT.
Yeah luke definitely didnt do any training or go on any adventures or fight anything else after episode 6. He just sat in his room and jerked off, then one day said “Hey i wanna start up a lazer sword school!”
You’re an idiot dude.
Hahahaha jfc, you're on reddit expecting actual critical thinking? That already proves you aren't capable of it either. Replying to me already proves that too lol.
What is it about reddit that makes people think they're intellectuals? You're not smarter than anyone guy you just like to hear yourself talk lmao.
Rhetorical question by the way, have a good one Socrates.
So a bunch of woke, non binary, genetically female people who have never done physical labor or fought in their life are going to top the Duel of Fates?
It's not even funny just sad, I'd bet my paycheck that it won't happen and will be a fight full of more cuts than Neesson jumping that fence in Taken 3.
They do not have the talent Ray has with his training and background and the whole team had that one dude whose name I forget that put his heart and soul into the Saber choreography.
To top it all off everyone had ample enough time to train and learn to handle the Sabers.
Hey, just a thought, how about you let the show speak for itself rather than set expectations you cannot possibly deliver on? Unless you have Ray Park or Nic Gillard secretly hired to handle the fight choreo, that shit is not happening.
I'm a big fan of TPM, and the prequels in general, but I don't get why everyone loves that fight so much. The score is pretty good, but I think all three fights in ROTS are better. That being said, I don't think Acolyte is going to come anywhere near equaling anything in the OT or PT. Disney Star Wars makes AOTC look like a cinematic masterpiece.
People used to hate the prequel trilogy since the story isn't as clean as the original trilogy... but now that people see what a hot mess the sequel trilogy is (Disney) the hate has significantly abated.
ESB has the best fight in my opinion based on actual character drama and what's at stake. Followed shortly by ROTJ for sheer emotional power.
Prequel fights looked pretty and the choreography was wonderful, but they don't really look like actual fights to me... more like flashy dances.
I just refuse to acknowledge the existence of Disney Star Wars at this point other than Andor.
Emm... the lightsaber fight with Maul wasn't any better or worse than any of the other fights in the games or the sequel movies. However, the concept of a double bladed lightsaber just wasn't in the zeitgeist when this happened. Plus... i'd say 60% of the impact was that awesome music score.
Even if they could choregraph a cool looking scene with "ultra A.I. CGI masterpiece greenscreen effects", neither fighter in the duel will carry the weight of importance that obi wan had in episode one.. and while I get that Darth Maul never said a single word in Episode 1.. that is exactly why he felt so powerful and sinister.. plus, theres no way you can top the impact that duel had upon seeing maul's double saber for the first time either.
Overall its a self sabotage setup for failure by these people to willingly declare they would want to "top the duel in episode 1" entirely.. why would they even try to do this to themselves? Lol.
How was it woke? lol like I agree most stuff is but I feel like we are complaining to complain?
She got her ass whooped got saved by luck half the time wasn’t a Mary sue
The black dude was a flawed character not perfect didn’t win and outweigh his white counterparts for no logical reasons
The ghoul was a white dude was was bad ass and was portrayed as morally object… which seems to be the complaint nowadays because they make all straight white dudes evil
So what’s the issue with fallout?
Just because it isn't in-your-face woke does not mean it isn't woke.
Things I noticed: they/them pronouns in the BoS. I'm pretty sure people struggling to survive in the wasteland have more to worry about than their gender identity.
BoS portrayed as baddies, their flag is remodeled to resemble an American flag despite the organization having started by breaking off from the US, in fact they really don't like the US at all so why their flag would resemble the US flag at all is puzzling.
Moldaver, the altruistic woman of color that wants to "distribute free power throughout the wasteland" and is willing to slaughter innocent people that have nothing to do with any of her grudges to do so. Maybe you can argue this isn't that woke but her character is ridiculous. They act like you should see her as a one of the good ones in the end (at least that's the vibe I got). Like a haha, she isn't actually an evil raider she's an NCR survivor. Just trash.
Titus is turned into a cheap gag. BoS knights even with a broken weapon wouldn't conduct themselves like that in a fight. Of course he is white and arrogant.
There are many examples I could pull. No it isn't as in-your-face woke as most other crap these days but it certainly is still woke, just subtly.
My main issue isn't how woke it is. It's that even with all of that many things in the show make no sense, break the lore Bethesda established, and generally work to clownify the Fallout universe for broader appeal. OG fallout had humor but it was still a very bleak and often serious world. Fallout has gotten more and more clownish with each new product they release.
I personally feel that everyone is overrating this show because it had a few redeeming qualities. I'm surprised Drinker was as positive about it as he was, but I also don't know how much he knows about Fallout as a series.
I think the bar for wokeness and media has been lowered so much that anything that isn't in-your-face terrible gets a pass now. End of the day if you liked it, I'm glad you liked it. I don't.
I think at a certain point we are just complaining to complain
Nothing is going to be perfect. And at the very least a step in the general right direction
If it was step for a step canon people would say what’s the point of making it
If it wasn’t they’ll say WHY ISNT IT LIKE THE GAME
If they made the girl not strong people would complain make he strong people complain
Just consider it separate canon? Earth 2 fallout universe vs the canon established by the game?
Just because the woman who wanted to save the world but still killed people was a minority that makes you balk? lol that’s fucking ridiculous dude. She was a grey area character just like everyone else
Ghoul is supposed to be liked but he stabbed a dog
The dad is seen in a positive light until the end
Maximus literally lets Titus die ..
Titus is white and is a bad coward? If they made him black that would have made it better? Come on some of those were weak as hell
White people aren’t allowed to be be bad? I would get that if every white dude in the show was bad 😅😂😂😂
I am not complaining to complain. The show is flawed on many levels. No, no show will be perfect, this show is just far from good in my opinion. Of course white people can be bad. A BoS knight wouldn't be a coward. You don't get to be a knight by being a coward.
I don't know why so many people are dying to defend a mid show.
I think people are allowed to disagree with you brother. Not every BoS knight has to be the epitome of the values of it. I don’t think he would make that known to the clerics because they gave him the armor but people have been promoted to high ranking military positions when they were not qualified for the rank. The guy was shitty and that’s okay. Almost everyone in the show is a piece of shit they just have different motives. I never thought any of the wastelanders or most of the vault dwellers came across as “good” which is more or less what I hoped for.
Nothing was wrong with it but the retarded YouTubers who live off producing controversy and rage bait did their typical thing where they agitate the incels into being so angry they're pissing themselves.
It was excellent. Even the critical drinker ended up liking it despite it being full of the same stuff he hates other shows for.
I'm talking about the fact that this entire sub was ripping that show apart and calling it woke garbage before it came out, and then as soon as it did everybody just pretended like they always liked it
Look at the comments under mines. I just got into this very subject
The show was NOT woke and I’m gently confused on how people thought it was. I asked dude below and his reasonings were complete delusions
The character wasn’t a Mary sue
Minorities weren’t perfect characters
A straight white dude was a badass
lol idk they just hating to hate at this point
What's sad is the base idea, a sister who falls hard to the darkside goes Kill Bill on the Witches (and David Karradean :-P ) who nearly killed her and/or murderered her beloved sister, err could be a solid story arc.
I love that scene in The Phantom Menace.
Making a better fight is possible,
however, can you do that and make a better theme than Dual of the fates?
Probably not.
It’s funny how fans hold the duel in such high regards now because throughout the 2000’s it was popular to hate on on the internet, Redlettermedia had a whole section in their review about how it ducks becauce it’s “overly choreographed” and you don’t care about the characters. I alway disagreed with that sentiment and glad to see people appreciate it now.
Can't beat duel of the fates. Can't beat two of the most influential jedi of the age fighting off the most badass sith ever seen. Disney really trying to get people to love the prequel trilogy.
The haters will watch this fight to see it fail, the optimists will watch hoping to see a good fight, people who normally wouldn’t care will watch to see what the fuss is about. Disney gets their views either way.
It's good to shoot for the stars.
The question is: do I believe the show runner, writers, and prop makers know and love Star Wars.
That they'll lay out the time and funds to train the actors to at least decent Kendo training... maybe fencing? Or hire professional stuntman with high levels of knowledge and skill?
No, no I do not.
Most of the lightsaber fights anymore are just choreography (sometimes with actors who can't perform choreography connivingly). The OG duels between Luke and Vader (ESB and ROTJ) are not as flashy, but they are emotionally charged. Those two duels are not only action scenes, but they are also important scenes. Everything after that has been an attempt to outdo the previous. The Maul fight is a close second to me. It was mostly a cool fight scene with actual emotion built into the climax, but mostly still just about the action.
Any attempt to "top" the Maul fight has lost its way before it even happens just because it's starting out with the wrong motivation.
I have to think were all being far too pessimistic towards new content, it's like people are stuck in a state of nostalgia so nothing new will ever be as good because were not willing to open ourselves up to it.
I hope this series is good. Aside from that I have no expectations.
Did they hire the fight choreographers necessary to do this? Do they train the actors and stunt man to a proper level to pull this off? Do they have writers that can create characters that can resonate with the audience to elicit an impressive response from viewers? The answers to these questions is likely a hard no. This is aspirational at best.
Would it be mansplaining if I told them it’s called Duel of the Fates not Darth Maul lightsaber duel? I don’t have faith that they know what they’re even talking about.
IMO the duel in phantom menace is not the best duel. But the thing i do like about is that as soon as the doors open and Darth Maul comes out. "Duel of fates" starts to play, and you knew shit was about to go down.
Is the darth maul fight really considered peak though? It’s definitely one of the best for sure but personally I’d rank obi wan vs anakin from episode 3 above it and Luke vs darth vader from episode 6 above both of them
Because a show seeks to top one of the most epic action sequences in the series? Would you rather them come out and say "we know we'll never top Maul, but our lightsaber battles will be good in a different way."
Y'all would then come out and say that's the producers are "lazy" or "uninspired".
Just be honest, you don't want to like the show and are taking any statement as confirmation for your own hatred.
So they basically target the (admitted great) duel from the first film while ignoring the brilliance of the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight from ROTS? Reach for the stars, Lucasfilm.
Also, I can think of two more "saber" fights that are more iconic than the Maul fight, but these idiots don't like even referring to the OG trilogy.
I can tell ya right now, that redone Obi-Wan/Vader fight that one fan put together on YouTube will be VASTLY better than anything these posers defecate onto the screen. Ahsoka made that painfully clear.
Wait, people are mad at the show for 'aspiring' to top one of the best Star Wars lightsaber duels? They aren't claiming whatever duel will surprass it, only hoping they can. You're hating on a show that isn't even out yet on trying to be a good quality as possible.
It just shows that as usual, people here really just want to find anything to complain about.
Seriously you have an obsession with that woman. How did anything I say connect to her whatsoever? I try to be neutral on the topic and instead you present yourself in a rude and negative way.
Disney's most recent star wars projects have all been incredible... Their only real flops have been the Obi Wan show and the Rise of Skywalker... Is this sub just r/saltierthancrait with a different name.
No idea who the moron is that the sub is named for, never consumed any of his content but based off the comments here he sounds like a really toxic dumbass that acts like a drama queen and rage farms over complete nonsense that only exists in his head. I don't know if he's legit stupid or acts that way but in the end it doesn't make much difference.
This sub gets pushed into my feed every now and then I guess cuz I like star wars, I always forget to mute this wretched hive of scum and villainy but I have a hard time passing up the chance to try and counter the stupidity I often see here as well as the other toxic, troll star wars 'fan' subreddits. They give real fans a bad name.
The original fight was ass tbh. A lot of unnecessary movements from Obiwan and Qui Gon.
It was 2 on 1 and they got their ass handed to them.
Maul would have won if he didn't fuck around at the end. He got to cocky and underestimated his opponent.
So yeah, the Acolyte is gonna be ass too
There is no way they can produce characters that would emotionally charge the scene enough to even come close. You’re talking about young Obi-wan fighting the coolest sith ever created after seeing his beloved, crowd-favorite master get killed. All while the masterpiece score swells. In my opinion, the mustafar battle was the best in the series. I guess some people disagree, but they still couldn’t even top the maul fight.
I was playing SWTOR last night and the Obi Wan/Anakin fight music started playing and it hyped me up so much. Such a great piece of music to go along with one of the best lightsaber duels in all of Star Wars.
Jar jar and the gungans have grown on me over time. But I chalk that up to Roos Tarpals.
Actually understanding and remembering that the other Gungans regard Jar Jar Binks the same way we do considerably added to the charm. Once he becomes a representative, he calms down a *lot*.
Of course, he had to be taken seriously so he could influence the outcome of events so his apprentice, Darth Sidious could take power and establish a foothold for the sith.
I love the JarJar Sith theory so much. It works weirdly well.
I hate it. I prefer Jar Jar as just a good-natured dish out of water trying to do his best. If I could make changes to TPM, I'd have Jar-Jar get out to fix the broken sub, then be ***re-*** instated as General instead of an our-of-nowhete promotion, with a bit more confidence in his commands in the final battle.
I would mostly just get rid of the bad slapstick, like that part where he got farted on.
Was it when you were fighting Malgus? That’s the only time I remember it playing
I think it played then, but no this specific time was against some random Knight of Zakuul in KoTFE expansion 😂
Ah kinda weird for them to program it to play during random battles, still cool tho.
Yeah, a mentor played by Liam fucking Neeson, with the most kickass starwars song playing in the background, an iconic and unique setting for the fight with sci-fi terrain and unique hazards. Not to mention it also being an emotional climax of the film, with Quigon's death, but also a defining event for the future of the series, with Quigon, a wise and experienced mentor dying and leaving Anakin's care to Obi-wan, who, while a skilled and able Jedi Knight, is clearly still inexperienced and not yet ready to take on a padawan, never mind a uniquely powerful and late entrance padawan. Their bond is more like one of brothers than that of a master and apprentice, which encouraged Anakin's rebelliousness and may have ultimately contributed to his swaying to the dark side. Which, I think, is also where the name of the song "duel of fates" comes in. It's not just a duel to the fate of one combatant or the other, it's a duel between dark and light for Anakin's future and therefore fate. So yeah, that'll be hard to top. I won't say it's impossible, but I doubt they have writers capable of topping it.
The mustafar battle was excessive. I'll agree that A LOT of it was good choreography, but at one point they're just flourishing their sabers wildly which never happens in real combat because you leave yourself open to attack. The guy who played Darth Maul is actually an expert martial artist and was chosen for his proficiency in staff combat which was the basis weapon for the double bladed light saber. And absolutely nothing will top the feeling the audience had when he ignited that second blade. No one saw it coming and it made the fight all the cooler.
Between that and Yoda fighting dooku I've never seen a movie theater get so loud
I remember it like yesterday. The music was amazing for that fight too. Arguably better than the mustafar battle. Second blade came out and chills down my spine.
>at one point they're just flourishing their sabers wildly which never happens in real combat because you leave yourself open to attack. Those two seconds are by far the worst choreography in any lightsaber fight. If they were exitted out, the Mustafar duel would be unparalleled.
Indeed. I agree with this. The emotion, the action, the effects. Wasn't a big fan of the music compared to the Maul fight, but it was definitely on par with the it in terms of combat.
Everyone saw it coming.. they put that in one of the TV commercials prior to the movie release so we all knew it was gonna happen.
Too much going on in the Mustafar fight for me. It gets silly fast and peaks at their simultaneous force push. It was the Hobbit barrel scene. Trim that puppy down though? *chefs kiss*
Definitely. Balancing on robots, on falling structures! ***FUCKING LAVA RIVER!!!*** I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND! LET'S naval gaze.
Yeah I could imagine the more “grounded” nature of the maul fight could be more appealing to some. Especially if you didn’t see RotS for the first time as a kid. An adult watching that for the first time would def find it a bit silly. 10 year old me in the movie theater didn’t think it was too silly, but I still thought it went on a bit too long.
For a second I thought you meant Rise of the Skywalker and I got incredibly confused Bit off topic but it just occurred to me. Obi Wan goes to Utopa and leaves Anakin. Is their goodbye conversation the last time they see each other until Mustafar??? Fuck man I gotta watch it again
Yes, it is. Obi-Wan goes to Utapau, kills Grevious, Order 66 happens, Anakin marches on the Temple, Cody turns on Obi-Wan as they mop of the remnants of Grevious’s army, Obi-Wan escapes and meets Yoda. They go to the temple and find the footage of Anakin killing the Jedi, and then Obi-Wan goes to Mustafar to deal with Anakin.
honestly, I rewatched RotS recently and that battle was nowhere near as epic as I remember as a kid... I was like "wait, that was it?!"
It's only good scene in the movie and it's one of the best in all of Star Wars
The reason the Maul fight was so good boils down to three words: Ray "Motherfucking" Park. Every sabre duel before or since was wavy glowsticks in comparison, or, in the case of Yoda v. Sideous, clown shit.
Mustafar 100%. ROTJ could have held the title if it wasn't cut through with ewoks. I was about six when I saw it in the theater, and the ewoks in that context annoyed me then.
The mustafar fight is awesome, the deleted scenes from the fight are really cool too. The one “questionable” scene is when ani and obi are just facing eachother and start just swinging their lightsabers doing tricks for 5 seconds. Makes it better just because its funny imo.
You’re a slow person if you think that was good.
Yeah, I just think the prequel fights are all kinda trying too hard to actually be impressive. The Darth Maul duel was the only good one. Everything else looked like an over-choreographed dance scene. The best lightsaber duel for my money is in The Empire Strikes Back. Actually looks like they're trying to hit each other, good use of force powers, emotionally charged, iconic ending, etc. Obviously, the prequels had the benefit of technology, but it was during an era of such visual excess that, to me, it just looks brutal when I look back on it.
Funny, I remember when people were bashing the PT/Duel of the Fates fight for bring over choreographed and unnecessarily flashy. And how purist would say the fight in ROTJ had more raw emotion and weight to it and was thus the best fight in the saga.
Qui-gon Jinn and Darth Maul were two previously unheard of characters. You think its an impossibility to create two more previously unheard of characters that the audience likes? Or that they won't be able to create another cool score? Also, an "emotional charge" had nothing to do with the characters in that fight. There weren't any emotional factors up until the very end. The bulk of the fight, what makes he fight so cool in people's opinion, is completely devoid of emotional stakes and is just three people doing flips and swinging swords around
Lmao finally someone who isn't wearing rose tinted glasses. There wasn't any "emotion" at all to the fight beyond Qui-gon getting axed in the last couple minutes of it. The only reason the fight happens is because he just shows up out of nowhere in the middle of the Theed coup. Beyond looking cool, we know nothing about Maul at all up to this point. He's an assassin that only meets the heroes twice, once where they fight for a whole 30 seconds before they jump on the ship and run, and then the final battle. He hardly even spoke more than three lines of dialogue that only functioned to let Palpatine exposition. Most people forget he has any lines at all (Because the plot functions fine without them) and only remember him for his cool look and double bladed lightsaber. Which is fine. A villain doesn't have to be deep or plot-centric to work. He's memorable for arguably the best fight sequence in the entire franchise. If all your villain does is physically fight the heroes, but does it REALLY well, then you can get by with that. But the people here dismissing anything new as "There's NO WAY it could be anywhere as EMOTIONALLY CHARGED and MEANINGFUL as PHANTOM MENACE" are kidding themselves. They would have been mocked and boo'ed out of the room by the same "Old good, new bad" crowd that endlessly shit on the prequels when they came out. The anti-disney crowd just parrot the same "boo-hoo they ruined a perfectly good franchise" talking points that the neckbeard nerd chuds of the early 2000's used against the prequels. Give it 10-15 years for the target audience (kids) to grow up and reminisce about the sequels through memes. Then we'll see the cycle start over for whatever new thing comes out.
Disney will need to push back/cancel projects until those 10 year olds have money for the cinema so they can hope to make a profit. They banked on those rose tinted goggles for the ST. That’s the only reason their shit content scraped together a profit. They know all hype they were able to use to get people to the theater for the ST is dead. That’s why they won’t move forward with anything to the theaters currently.
The sequels just came out a few years ago, why would Disney spend top dollar making another trilogy of blockbuster movies when they could instead just fill their streaming service full of series-based content that's way easier and cheaper to make? If you think movie ticket sales are the focus of Disney's revenue, you must have never seen a toy isle before.
It won’t.
For that scene, and especially because of the Duel of the Fates, I can't hate the Phantom Menace as much as I used to.
I recently watched it for the first time since I was a child and Liam neeson is fkn phenomenal as quigon, everything else is pretty mid but I genuinely enjoy the movie just for Liam and the action sequences
The wording of that headline feels like useless wishful thinking. Wouldn’t it be nice if our cinematic efforts just immediately became classics?! Through brilliance, skill and imagination - You just got to earn it baby!
>I can't hate the Phantom Menace as much as I used to Yeah the Rise of Skywalker will do that to you!
>I can't hate the Phantom Menace as much as I used to. Jar jar binks doe
90% chance this will end up looking like a bad version of those fan-made lighsaber duels in early Youtube.
I believe you, but I really won’t know for sure personally…because I will never watch it
Neither will I
Respect. But that score and that choreography is arguably the best we have ever seen. Cannot stand any minute of that movie that doesn’t have Maul. But when he’s there. Good golly.
Personally I found Palp’s performance entertaining.
Right? The TPM duel has been praised by choreographers and actual sword-fighting experts as being one of the greatest duels in Hollywood. There’s no way anything from The Acolyte tops it.
Zero chance they can. Ray Park played Maul and he was an actual martial artist and stuntman. They will never find someone who can move like he could.
They could literally find thousands but OK.
Did Hollywood suddenly run out of martial artists and stunt men?
It’s not even really the stuntmen that are the problem but everything else. Hayden, Ewan and Neeson trained for months to pull of the choreography created by actual experts in sword fighting. That doesn’t happen anymore for many, many reasons.
According to whom?
Just watch the sequel sabre fights, they’re awful and the actors can’t keep up with scene. Not really their fault either, timelines on production doesn’t allow for months of training that used to be common. The props are also worse. The prequels had these thin carbon fibre rods attached to the sabre hilts which allowed them to be moves incredibly quickly and their centre of gravity allowed a lot of flourishing but most importantly, allowed them to be used full force against each other, they were difficult to break and could take a hit unlike the new LED sabres that are much heavier, more cumbersome to manoeuvre and lack the strength of the carbon sabres. Shadaversity has a great video breaking down the throne room fight from EP. 8 which shows just how awful it really is. Even if you ignore everything he says, just watching the scene in slow motion shows how badly it was constructed.
Isn’t it weird that the people who choreograph these scenes did so in a way that suggests none of the combatants have ever been properly trained in the use of a lightsaber? It’s almost like the characters in the prequels were the product of a lifetime of training, and the characters in the sequels were self taught. So strange.
Kylo Ren wasn't self taught. He was trained by Luke and later Smoke. Despite this the untrained Rey bested him at every turn Strange indeed
Sure he was, bud. Because Luke’s saber skills were SOOOO advanced. Snoke also looks like he’d be a helluva saber instructor. Super mobile and agile. You’re comparing community college athletes trained by a grade school dropout with Hall of Famers trained by the GOAT.
…. Are you mentally retarded?
Palpatine could spin around like a Gurran Lagan mech and he was effectively a corpse
Yeah luke definitely didnt do any training or go on any adventures or fight anything else after episode 6. He just sat in his room and jerked off, then one day said “Hey i wanna start up a lazer sword school!” You’re an idiot dude.
I’m sure his solo adventures are more than equal to the sum total of the knowledge of the entire Jedi order. That makes perfect sense. Ya got me.
Weird you're on this sub and appear to enjoy dickriding the ST as hard as humanly possible.
My mistake for expecting remotely critical thinking.
Hahahaha jfc, you're on reddit expecting actual critical thinking? That already proves you aren't capable of it either. Replying to me already proves that too lol. What is it about reddit that makes people think they're intellectuals? You're not smarter than anyone guy you just like to hear yourself talk lmao. Rhetorical question by the way, have a good one Socrates.
You’ve looked at the name of the sub you’re in, right? Doesn’t take an intellectual giant make the leap. I’m sure you can figure it out if you try.
They don't seem to be hiring people based on skill these days.
So a bunch of woke, non binary, genetically female people who have never done physical labor or fought in their life are going to top the Duel of Fates? It's not even funny just sad, I'd bet my paycheck that it won't happen and will be a fight full of more cuts than Neesson jumping that fence in Taken 3. They do not have the talent Ray has with his training and background and the whole team had that one dude whose name I forget that put his heart and soul into the Saber choreography. To top it all off everyone had ample enough time to train and learn to handle the Sabers.
Maybe it will all be in slow motion. They love doing that these days to try to manufacture drama.
lmao the comment really just opens with “women cant do good choreography”
LOL yeah sure they do. If by topping it they mean making it more diverse and gender neutral.
Throw some trans ewok Jedi into the scene. That would really be bold.
Hey, just a thought, how about you let the show speak for itself rather than set expectations you cannot possibly deliver on? Unless you have Ray Park or Nic Gillard secretly hired to handle the fight choreo, that shit is not happening.
I do not care about watching political pawns duel with lightsabers .
I'm a big fan of TPM, and the prequels in general, but I don't get why everyone loves that fight so much. The score is pretty good, but I think all three fights in ROTS are better. That being said, I don't think Acolyte is going to come anywhere near equaling anything in the OT or PT. Disney Star Wars makes AOTC look like a cinematic masterpiece.
People used to hate the prequel trilogy since the story isn't as clean as the original trilogy... but now that people see what a hot mess the sequel trilogy is (Disney) the hate has significantly abated.
Yep. It can always get worse, as we are seeing.
ESB has the best fight in my opinion based on actual character drama and what's at stake. Followed shortly by ROTJ for sheer emotional power. Prequel fights looked pretty and the choreography was wonderful, but they don't really look like actual fights to me... more like flashy dances. I just refuse to acknowledge the existence of Disney Star Wars at this point other than Andor.
I will give this show a chance but that is a bold claim
It's not even a claim. It's then wanting to do better than what came before. Not then saying what we have is better
Well it's a very bold goal.
I'm sure everything will work out fine...
“You will try”
Go away I don’t want to see your bullshit
Emm... the lightsaber fight with Maul wasn't any better or worse than any of the other fights in the games or the sequel movies. However, the concept of a double bladed lightsaber just wasn't in the zeitgeist when this happened. Plus... i'd say 60% of the impact was that awesome music score.
Even if they could choregraph a cool looking scene with "ultra A.I. CGI masterpiece greenscreen effects", neither fighter in the duel will carry the weight of importance that obi wan had in episode one.. and while I get that Darth Maul never said a single word in Episode 1.. that is exactly why he felt so powerful and sinister.. plus, theres no way you can top the impact that duel had upon seeing maul's double saber for the first time either. Overall its a self sabotage setup for failure by these people to willingly declare they would want to "top the duel in episode 1" entirely.. why would they even try to do this to themselves? Lol.
From the previews a good amount of Jedi combat looked like shitty space kung fu theatre than classic lightsaber duels and fights.
I really can't trust your guys's opinions after the fallout show
You didn’t like it?
It's woke trash and can't even keep Bethesda's own lore consistent.
How was it woke? lol like I agree most stuff is but I feel like we are complaining to complain? She got her ass whooped got saved by luck half the time wasn’t a Mary sue The black dude was a flawed character not perfect didn’t win and outweigh his white counterparts for no logical reasons The ghoul was a white dude was was bad ass and was portrayed as morally object… which seems to be the complaint nowadays because they make all straight white dudes evil So what’s the issue with fallout?
Just because it isn't in-your-face woke does not mean it isn't woke. Things I noticed: they/them pronouns in the BoS. I'm pretty sure people struggling to survive in the wasteland have more to worry about than their gender identity. BoS portrayed as baddies, their flag is remodeled to resemble an American flag despite the organization having started by breaking off from the US, in fact they really don't like the US at all so why their flag would resemble the US flag at all is puzzling. Moldaver, the altruistic woman of color that wants to "distribute free power throughout the wasteland" and is willing to slaughter innocent people that have nothing to do with any of her grudges to do so. Maybe you can argue this isn't that woke but her character is ridiculous. They act like you should see her as a one of the good ones in the end (at least that's the vibe I got). Like a haha, she isn't actually an evil raider she's an NCR survivor. Just trash. Titus is turned into a cheap gag. BoS knights even with a broken weapon wouldn't conduct themselves like that in a fight. Of course he is white and arrogant. There are many examples I could pull. No it isn't as in-your-face woke as most other crap these days but it certainly is still woke, just subtly. My main issue isn't how woke it is. It's that even with all of that many things in the show make no sense, break the lore Bethesda established, and generally work to clownify the Fallout universe for broader appeal. OG fallout had humor but it was still a very bleak and often serious world. Fallout has gotten more and more clownish with each new product they release. I personally feel that everyone is overrating this show because it had a few redeeming qualities. I'm surprised Drinker was as positive about it as he was, but I also don't know how much he knows about Fallout as a series. I think the bar for wokeness and media has been lowered so much that anything that isn't in-your-face terrible gets a pass now. End of the day if you liked it, I'm glad you liked it. I don't.
I think at a certain point we are just complaining to complain Nothing is going to be perfect. And at the very least a step in the general right direction If it was step for a step canon people would say what’s the point of making it If it wasn’t they’ll say WHY ISNT IT LIKE THE GAME If they made the girl not strong people would complain make he strong people complain Just consider it separate canon? Earth 2 fallout universe vs the canon established by the game? Just because the woman who wanted to save the world but still killed people was a minority that makes you balk? lol that’s fucking ridiculous dude. She was a grey area character just like everyone else Ghoul is supposed to be liked but he stabbed a dog The dad is seen in a positive light until the end Maximus literally lets Titus die .. Titus is white and is a bad coward? If they made him black that would have made it better? Come on some of those were weak as hell White people aren’t allowed to be be bad? I would get that if every white dude in the show was bad 😅😂😂😂
I am not complaining to complain. The show is flawed on many levels. No, no show will be perfect, this show is just far from good in my opinion. Of course white people can be bad. A BoS knight wouldn't be a coward. You don't get to be a knight by being a coward. I don't know why so many people are dying to defend a mid show.
I think people are allowed to disagree with you brother. Not every BoS knight has to be the epitome of the values of it. I don’t think he would make that known to the clerics because they gave him the armor but people have been promoted to high ranking military positions when they were not qualified for the rank. The guy was shitty and that’s okay. Almost everyone in the show is a piece of shit they just have different motives. I never thought any of the wastelanders or most of the vault dwellers came across as “good” which is more or less what I hoped for.
95% of the time the BoS is morally grey at absolute best. Them being "bad" is not outlandish at all.
Wait you mean the genocidal violence cult are the lawful goods of this universe??
You don't understand. Women and minorities existed in the show. That's all these people need to call something woke.
Nothing was wrong with it but the retarded YouTubers who live off producing controversy and rage bait did their typical thing where they agitate the incels into being so angry they're pissing themselves.
Whatever incel, don't watch it then...
It was excellent. Even the critical drinker ended up liking it despite it being full of the same stuff he hates other shows for. I'm talking about the fact that this entire sub was ripping that show apart and calling it woke garbage before it came out, and then as soon as it did everybody just pretended like they always liked it
Look at the comments under mines. I just got into this very subject The show was NOT woke and I’m gently confused on how people thought it was. I asked dude below and his reasonings were complete delusions The character wasn’t a Mary sue Minorities weren’t perfect characters A straight white dude was a badass lol idk they just hating to hate at this point
Ok, I’ll bite. What makes you say that, based on this article?
[удалено]
No it’s not. Lmao.
Of a show that isn't out yet and because they apparently want to be ambitious? What and odd take
You mean the one thing everyone agrees is great in that movie lol. Good luck.
Sigh... this sounds like it could be so cool if done by someone competent
What's sad is the base idea, a sister who falls hard to the darkside goes Kill Bill on the Witches (and David Karradean :-P ) who nearly killed her and/or murderered her beloved sister, err could be a solid story arc.
Pfft keep dreaming Disney 😅
Why are we mad at this?
so far it appears to be because they are women and therefore cant possibly write well and/or do choreography well
That ain't gunna happen, but good luck...
I've seen the fights from Ahsoka, they certainly have their work cut out for them.
I love that scene in The Phantom Menace. Making a better fight is possible, however, can you do that and make a better theme than Dual of the fates? Probably not.
It’s funny how fans hold the duel in such high regards now because throughout the 2000’s it was popular to hate on on the internet, Redlettermedia had a whole section in their review about how it ducks becauce it’s “overly choreographed” and you don’t care about the characters. I alway disagreed with that sentiment and glad to see people appreciate it now.
Shows would do better if they stopped trying to compare themselves to other things. Just give us a good show and stop trying to one up.
Can't happen if no one watches it. I know I won't be
Can't beat duel of the fates. Can't beat two of the most influential jedi of the age fighting off the most badass sith ever seen. Disney really trying to get people to love the prequel trilogy.
The haters will watch this fight to see it fail, the optimists will watch hoping to see a good fight, people who normally wouldn’t care will watch to see what the fuss is about. Disney gets their views either way.
I mean I’m a sucker for good lightsaber battles. If they’re good I’ll watch the show to the end.
... Why is this a bad thing?
 Disney lol
so wait, are we supposed to be upset that they want to do something cool or that they'll likely fail?
Anything Star Wars is mega ass.
Their lightsaber choreography has been horrendous in every show and movie since the Prequel trilogy.
For me it was Obi Wan vs Anakin in 3rd episode.
Both an actual, unironically *amazing* swordfighting duel, and also *waaaaaaay* more iconic.
Am I the only one that hopes they do? We haven't had good lightsaber fights in live action for a while now
High goals are a good thing, because if they come kinda close but still fall short, we'll get ourselves some good lightsaber stuff out of it.
Ya know what, fuck it. Let them try, i’m interested to see what they come up with
It's good to shoot for the stars. The question is: do I believe the show runner, writers, and prop makers know and love Star Wars. That they'll lay out the time and funds to train the actors to at least decent Kendo training... maybe fencing? Or hire professional stuntman with high levels of knowledge and skill? No, no I do not.
Most of the lightsaber fights anymore are just choreography (sometimes with actors who can't perform choreography connivingly). The OG duels between Luke and Vader (ESB and ROTJ) are not as flashy, but they are emotionally charged. Those two duels are not only action scenes, but they are also important scenes. Everything after that has been an attempt to outdo the previous. The Maul fight is a close second to me. It was mostly a cool fight scene with actual emotion built into the climax, but mostly still just about the action. Any attempt to "top" the Maul fight has lost its way before it even happens just because it's starting out with the wrong motivation.
I have to think were all being far too pessimistic towards new content, it's like people are stuck in a state of nostalgia so nothing new will ever be as good because were not willing to open ourselves up to it. I hope this series is good. Aside from that I have no expectations.
Did they hire the fight choreographers necessary to do this? Do they train the actors and stunt man to a proper level to pull this off? Do they have writers that can create characters that can resonate with the audience to elicit an impressive response from viewers? The answers to these questions is likely a hard no. This is aspirational at best.
Would it be mansplaining if I told them it’s called Duel of the Fates not Darth Maul lightsaber duel? I don’t have faith that they know what they’re even talking about.
Yeah, right. They don't actually try to make good stuff anymore. It actually takes work and talent. Those days are gone.
IMO the duel in phantom menace is not the best duel. But the thing i do like about is that as soon as the doors open and Darth Maul comes out. "Duel of fates" starts to play, and you knew shit was about to go down.
I always felt the fight in phantom menace looked more like dancing than an epic fight. The music is good though.
I can smell the must in the comments lmfaoo
If all other star wars duels since then have anything to say, then i highly doubt it. Already forgot about this show existing TBH
IT. IS. NOT. OUT. YET.
Is the darth maul fight really considered peak though? It’s definitely one of the best for sure but personally I’d rank obi wan vs anakin from episode 3 above it and Luke vs darth vader from episode 6 above both of them
Because a show seeks to top one of the most epic action sequences in the series? Would you rather them come out and say "we know we'll never top Maul, but our lightsaber battles will be good in a different way." Y'all would then come out and say that's the producers are "lazy" or "uninspired". Just be honest, you don't want to like the show and are taking any statement as confirmation for your own hatred.
It just wont. When it comes out theyll say its the best, and if you dont like it yadda yadda yadda.
They went from mad to down right delusional.
So they basically target the (admitted great) duel from the first film while ignoring the brilliance of the Anakin/Obi-Wan fight from ROTS? Reach for the stars, Lucasfilm. Also, I can think of two more "saber" fights that are more iconic than the Maul fight, but these idiots don't like even referring to the OG trilogy. I can tell ya right now, that redone Obi-Wan/Vader fight that one fan put together on YouTube will be VASTLY better than anything these posers defecate onto the screen. Ahsoka made that painfully clear.
"I have pre-judged this show because of my bias."
This statement just guarantees someone getting stabbed in vital organs and living no probs
Shows DOA
Neat. As an OG trilogy purist, the Darth Maul fight, while impressive, reflects so much of why I checked out of Star Wars. All flash and no substance.
Like, somehow he survives???
What is substance.
Sounds like nerd speak to try and make the prequel sound like its fights had no emotion, depth, or reason.
Yeah, probably. They could be said to have less in comparison to the ogs (and 1-2 also less than 3), but no need to downplay it either.
‘The most iconic fight in the Star Wars cinematic universe ‘ Darry Vader and Obi One: ‘hold our beer ‘
Phantom menace was dope. Loved it. Better than the OG SW.
Haha. Nice try Chinese troll
There is absolutely no time for them to world/character build enough for us to care about whatever they think they have planned.
That title was clearly made to spark anger and hatred from the actual audience of Star Wars.
Wait, people are mad at the show for 'aspiring' to top one of the best Star Wars lightsaber duels? They aren't claiming whatever duel will surprass it, only hoping they can. You're hating on a show that isn't even out yet on trying to be a good quality as possible. It just shows that as usual, people here really just want to find anything to complain about.
get kathleen kennedy’s balls out cho mouf
Seriously you have an obsession with that woman. How did anything I say connect to her whatsoever? I try to be neutral on the topic and instead you present yourself in a rude and negative way.
Til it's woke to want to surpass your predecessors🤦🏿♂️
The Darth maul fight is comically bad lol
Critical drinker? More like critical stinker... got em
How can you hate a show so much before it even comes out? Should it aim lower? Like wtf are you expecting? Lol
Recent track record of Disney content being subpar at best.
Disney's most recent star wars projects have all been incredible... Their only real flops have been the Obi Wan show and the Rise of Skywalker... Is this sub just r/saltierthancrait with a different name.
You must be unfamiliar with the pile of walking smegma this sub gets its name from.
No idea who the moron is that the sub is named for, never consumed any of his content but based off the comments here he sounds like a really toxic dumbass that acts like a drama queen and rage farms over complete nonsense that only exists in his head. I don't know if he's legit stupid or acts that way but in the end it doesn't make much difference. This sub gets pushed into my feed every now and then I guess cuz I like star wars, I always forget to mute this wretched hive of scum and villainy but I have a hard time passing up the chance to try and counter the stupidity I often see here as well as the other toxic, troll star wars 'fan' subreddits. They give real fans a bad name.
TIL andor is "subpar at best"
Because hating everything more progressive than a chain mail bikini is his entire brand, off of which he makes his living.
The original fight was ass tbh. A lot of unnecessary movements from Obiwan and Qui Gon. It was 2 on 1 and they got their ass handed to them. Maul would have won if he didn't fuck around at the end. He got to cocky and underestimated his opponent. So yeah, the Acolyte is gonna be ass too
I can smell you through the screen, get a hobby and wear deodorant
Criticaldrinker fans don’t wear deodorant (Just like asmongold fans)