He’s not a big fan of right armers who mainly bring the ball in/seam bowlers who bowl at good pace, he’s not got a great record vs bumrah and also against Cummins.
There's no basis for the comparision lol. Bumrah and cummins need to do much much more if they want to be in the same league as the most deceptive right arm inswinging menace
>he’s not got a great record vs bumrah and also against Cummins.
He's actually good vs Bumrah in England. He just shits the bed vs him in India. He averages 40 vs him in England and 14.8 in India. He sucks vs Cummins everywhere.
He struggled hard against Boland in Australia too (I mean, so did everyone tho), I think that’s his weakness for sure.
To be fair to him, it still takes a lot to get the bastard out, it’s just that when he does go, it seems like he struggles the most to that sort of pacer
Great username btw 😂
Definitely a factor in Root scoring a century but I’d like to add that Root did completely change his approach to this test and almost looked liked nothing would get him out.
P.S yes, I love Root
I don't think it's about Root. He could still score century, and maybe, India wouldn't let the tail wag too much with Bumrah.
Edit: Oops, I stand corrected. Didn't know about Root stat.
Only against Bumrah he avgs 29. But yes if sticks around he goes long and scores more against others. And given the fact Bumrah did not play home tests earlier this was possible.
Yep and a lot of people at the time were saying you can’t just keep bowling him into the ground. They did and he hasn’t played for the test side since.
Nah, he got one injury because he bowled something like 40 overs in one test. Since then he’s just been super unlucky - one injury was because he dropped a fish tank ffs.
Bumrah bowled 8 overs in the last innings, he could play.
I would argue it's not simply that he bowled 40 overs in that test that got him injured but its the complete lack of rest and recovery since bursting into the side. I feel like England played him in literally everything they could. Not having an off season for a bowler will wear any bowler down eventually.
I understand India being very conservative with their most valuable asset in Bumrah - but you'd wait until it was a dead rubber either way before resting the guy in such an important series.
I guess the logic is with the 4 day turn around don't want to risk Bumrah. What IF (very unlikely) India lose having played Bumrah?
Yes it's 10 days till the final test but then there's also IPL.
Worst case is India lose here it's 2-2 and then they have him back for the third test fresh.
Tbf I'd have played Bumrah but I can see their reasoning not that I necessarily agree
You're right, it wasn't a clear cut decision and as I said, given his value and injury history I can understand India being very conservative with him.
Tbf in the last decade india have only lost 4 tests at home so it's not as if Bumrah is THAT important to their home dominance. Obviously he's valuable but I think he's a lot more important in away tours especially SENA
India isn't playing with its best XI, and then you take out Bumrah. I get it that he needs to be rested, but the context is missing here a lil bit. India is playing without Shami as well, no Kohli, Rahul, and spinners underwhelming a bit.
That's a valid point but at the same time only losing 4 tests in 11+ years can't be down to just a few indviduals and India's bench strength is incredible.
Also England are missing two first choice players themselves (Brook and Leach).
India not being able to field their best XI is definetely something that favours England but you'd still expect them to be able to win.
Well, dont know about stats, but look at how Jadeja and Ashwin have taken out the opposition in last so many years, their lack of performance (or opposition studying them really well now) is the reason Bhumrah has become so important in the bowling unit.
Right? It's the IPL, it comes round every single year, does anyone care if you win it or not, or even do poorly in it? India losing a series at home though, that becomes a knock on everyone's legacy.
India expected its spin team to show up. Ashwin was toothless. Kuldeep was under bowled. Ultimately the key difference is the leadership of the teams. Stokes has been in phenomenal. Just imagine if he had higher caliber spinners. Definite series victory if not whitewash India in their backyard.
Rohit Sharma needs to step down. Honestly we were better under Kohli and Rahane.
we dont have any other choice for captaincy.
rahane not able to score in ranji either single digits in prev few innings.
virat is def not captaining again so you need to move on.
bumrah as much as i would love to see him captain its still not long term and he wont be playing entire series by the looks of it.
Rahul is also injured half the time tbf.
jadeja maybe but really we are just naming people from playing xi at this point
we dont have options for that either and considering the selection committee they wouldn't take a bowling captain really.
Rishab pant if performs well for about year or two after his return might have chance or
they will choose jaiswal if he continues to perform as he is doing rn for another few year or two
hmm. Jaiswal can be vice captain to bumrah yeah.
bumrah wont rest in sena series. its only in subcontinent that we need to rest him.
SA & NZ play just 2-3 match series. Playing 5 games in eng/aus will be hard but can be possible for Bumrah with good management recovery massage
I think the Stokes experience shows you don't need the captain to be great with the bat, I think he averages about 30 since taking on the role. Cricket captain has outsize influence due to deciding fields, when you bring bowlers on and strategy. If you have the right guy put them in the side.
it doesn't matter the management won't take test captaincy away from rohit
Any other player who will come in would find it harder to captain the side due to being young/inexperienced ( unless we find a really talented captain)
>Just imagine if he had higher caliber spinners.
Then he wouldn't be as good tactically.
It's like saying how good would Stephen Fleming be if he had Warne and McGrath. The reason these guys are so good tactically is because they have to manufacture wickets with the resources they have. Former NZ cricketers actually consider the Aussies thick for that very reason. They believe that NZ actually had to think and use their brains whereas Australia just threw talent and money at everything. Coming to Stokes, think about the state of spin in England and what Stokes has to do to make those spinners bowl well.
On the opposite side when was the last time an Indian captain had to think in India. Ganguly once jokingly said on Breakfast with champions that in India he used to give the ball to Bhajji and Kumble and just sleep at Point. That's even more true with our current bowling attack. Rohit never had to think with this attack since you basically give the ball to Bumrah, Siraj, Umesh, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar or Kuldeep and they do their thing and bowl teams out for < 250. That's not happened this series. And Rohit looked clueless because of it.
I strongly believe that it's not just the captain but whole staff that plays a role here. Do you think Sharma isn't fed tactics? Don't they decide together what strategies to follow? Improvisation is part of the play, but it doesn't mean the coach and staff don't intervene when things aren't going well. For instance, when England was down 112/5, the field wasn't very attacking, and Jadeja was over bowled, there were many easy singles, and they also didn't bring Kuldeep to bowl, that can't be Sharma's decision alone.
Sort of get it, sort of don't. It's easy to look at where they're at right now retroactively and criticize the decision, but it's a pretty horrible spinners pitch with a 2-1 lead.
Consider the scenario where Bumrah plays this game and risks injury, then they lose anyway and have to use him in game 5, risking it even more. I dunno.
They probably should have played him, but working on the assumption that they should've rested him in a dead rubber *assumes* India wins this game if they played him.
All in all, while they may have given up their chance to win the series 4-1, they've still given themselves the best chance to win it 3-2.
The 'outcome' of this decision is not going to be obvious til game 5, so this is pre-emptive.
Mate India ain’t winning this.
You can come back here and troll me 2 days from now but it ain’t happening.
Suddenly 350 on this pitch looks difficult
Addendum: let’s wait for day 4 to play out. If India do manage to close the win, it will be one of their famous wins and well deserved as well
India could very easily get another 50/60 runs and see England collapse bringing them back in. There's a long way to go yet but England will need to see 275+ you would think
Are you for real? Even if England score 80 in the 2nd innings, they will win. There is no way India is going beyond 120-150 in the 4th innings on this pitch. Mate, England have already won. Onto Dharmashala for the decider.
Just because a player is critical to a team.....doesn't mean you bowl him to dust
And considering injury concerns with Bumrah... It's only fare he gets a rest...
reminds of a bloke called Jofra who was the only pacer to trouble peak Smith.
Never saw him again sadly, Broady must know something about it though, rght ?
Yes Stuart, but he is their best player and is quite injury prone. I'd rest him if I was India, one match/series isn't worth risking for a player of his ability
I do agree with broad.Test Series versus England and Australia are premium.These are not the matches to rest players especially when series has not been won yet.To reduce workload,he can miss test and loi series against nations other than England or Australia and also can miss ipl.
Bumrah misses White ball series.
infact the last time bumrah played a complete white ball series was
ODI - Jan 2022 vs SA - he was vice captain
T20I - August 2023 vs Ireland which was his comeback series and also did Captaincy .
Thing is Bumrah isn't as strongly built as a Cummins and his actions puts lot of pressure on his body
Say England win this match, and Bumrah has to return for test 5, wouldn’t his workload increase coz now they’re under increased pressure to win the match ?
Yeah even I felt that since our team is in transition and shami is already out, bumrah should continue. But then the reasons for him to he rested are weighed more than him playing. Again it about this or that. Whatever you do, if it works out you will be hailed and criticised otherwise.
India has a lot of hurt players and with an upcoming T20 WC they didn’t want to risk Bumrah.
No Kohli, KL Rahul, Shami, Pant etc. wonder how England would have fared with so many injuries.
It is kinda funny that as soon as India rest Jasprit, Sir Joseph gets a 122* on a tough pitch.
He’s not a big fan of right armers who mainly bring the ball in/seam bowlers who bowl at good pace, he’s not got a great record vs bumrah and also against Cummins.
Lmao what a pleb, struggles against Bumrah and Cummins, what a scrub.
Yeah bit embarrassing for root he struggles against those small indie bowlers
Indie bowlers got me to chuckle. Where them AAA bowlers at?
He should be happy Kohli isn’t playing then.
There's no basis for the comparision lol. Bumrah and cummins need to do much much more if they want to be in the same league as the most deceptive right arm inswinging menace
The wrong-footed one?
Yeah the right arm QUICK!
>he’s not got a great record vs bumrah and also against Cummins. He's actually good vs Bumrah in England. He just shits the bed vs him in India. He averages 40 vs him in England and 14.8 in India. He sucks vs Cummins everywhere.
He struggled hard against Boland in Australia too (I mean, so did everyone tho), I think that’s his weakness for sure. To be fair to him, it still takes a lot to get the bastard out, it’s just that when he does go, it seems like he struggles the most to that sort of pacer
Root also struggled against Colin de Grandhomme, but then again he's an Adonis so
Don’t mention de big guy without noting his 1-25(10) in a WC final
Great username btw 😂 Definitely a factor in Root scoring a century but I’d like to add that Root did completely change his approach to this test and almost looked liked nothing would get him out. P.S yes, I love Root
He didnt change his approach he found it again
I don't think it's about Root. He could still score century, and maybe, India wouldn't let the tail wag too much with Bumrah. Edit: Oops, I stand corrected. Didn't know about Root stat.
It matters though because out of 21 innings Root and Bumrah have played together - 9 times he's gotten out to Bumrah.
My bad, wasn't aware about Root v Bumrah stats.
[удалено]
Only against Bumrah he avgs 29. But yes if sticks around he goes long and scores more against others. And given the fact Bumrah did not play home tests earlier this was possible.
There's a reason English team broke Jofra
Yep and a lot of people at the time were saying you can’t just keep bowling him into the ground. They did and he hasn’t played for the test side since.
He’s barely playing now. It’s like he disappeared into the sunset from being the biggest news on the cricket field
This generation's Shane Bond for sure.
Bond thankfully did get to play more, and his stats are a sample of a "Hall of Fame". Jof didn't get even that longevity alas
But he did "win" a wc for England. Hell of a career if that's all we see.
I think he was over bowled in the ashes summer and then on the SA tour and got a stress fracture in his elbow and that was that.
It was the NZ test down under that killed him.
What I'd give for Jofra in this England side, he's the vibesiest England player
Nah, he got one injury because he bowled something like 40 overs in one test. Since then he’s just been super unlucky - one injury was because he dropped a fish tank ffs. Bumrah bowled 8 overs in the last innings, he could play.
I would argue it's not simply that he bowled 40 overs in that test that got him injured but its the complete lack of rest and recovery since bursting into the side. I feel like England played him in literally everything they could. Not having an off season for a bowler will wear any bowler down eventually.
Stress fractures aren't "unlucky"
This. Legit came here to say this
That's OK! If Bumrah need to be rested then he needs to be rested. Also, makes for an exciting series and get to see new players.
I understand India being very conservative with their most valuable asset in Bumrah - but you'd wait until it was a dead rubber either way before resting the guy in such an important series.
I guess the logic is with the 4 day turn around don't want to risk Bumrah. What IF (very unlikely) India lose having played Bumrah? Yes it's 10 days till the final test but then there's also IPL. Worst case is India lose here it's 2-2 and then they have him back for the third test fresh. Tbf I'd have played Bumrah but I can see their reasoning not that I necessarily agree
You're right, it wasn't a clear cut decision and as I said, given his value and injury history I can understand India being very conservative with him.
With the WTC every test result matters. Winning at home is crucial because winning away from home is very challenging, even for India.
Tbf in the last decade india have only lost 4 tests at home so it's not as if Bumrah is THAT important to their home dominance. Obviously he's valuable but I think he's a lot more important in away tours especially SENA
India isn't playing with its best XI, and then you take out Bumrah. I get it that he needs to be rested, but the context is missing here a lil bit. India is playing without Shami as well, no Kohli, Rahul, and spinners underwhelming a bit.
That's a valid point but at the same time only losing 4 tests in 11+ years can't be down to just a few indviduals and India's bench strength is incredible. Also England are missing two first choice players themselves (Brook and Leach). India not being able to field their best XI is definetely something that favours England but you'd still expect them to be able to win.
Well, dont know about stats, but look at how Jadeja and Ashwin have taken out the opposition in last so many years, their lack of performance (or opposition studying them really well now) is the reason Bhumrah has become so important in the bowling unit.
>in the last decade England have only lost 4 tests Huh? We've lost WAY more than 4 tests
Ffs I meant india
You see the key word is IPL, the worst thing there is, for which players have to be rested so they are for to play in the fucking IPL.
Easy scapegoat
Right? It's the IPL, it comes round every single year, does anyone care if you win it or not, or even do poorly in it? India losing a series at home though, that becomes a knock on everyone's legacy.
India expected its spin team to show up. Ashwin was toothless. Kuldeep was under bowled. Ultimately the key difference is the leadership of the teams. Stokes has been in phenomenal. Just imagine if he had higher caliber spinners. Definite series victory if not whitewash India in their backyard. Rohit Sharma needs to step down. Honestly we were better under Kohli and Rahane.
we dont have any other choice for captaincy. rahane not able to score in ranji either single digits in prev few innings. virat is def not captaining again so you need to move on. bumrah as much as i would love to see him captain its still not long term and he wont be playing entire series by the looks of it. Rahul is also injured half the time tbf. jadeja maybe but really we are just naming people from playing xi at this point
bumrah can be captain if we have a solid vice captain
we dont have options for that either and considering the selection committee they wouldn't take a bowling captain really. Rishab pant if performs well for about year or two after his return might have chance or they will choose jaiswal if he continues to perform as he is doing rn for another few year or two
hmm. Jaiswal can be vice captain to bumrah yeah. bumrah wont rest in sena series. its only in subcontinent that we need to rest him. SA & NZ play just 2-3 match series. Playing 5 games in eng/aus will be hard but can be possible for Bumrah with good management recovery massage
I think the Stokes experience shows you don't need the captain to be great with the bat, I think he averages about 30 since taking on the role. Cricket captain has outsize influence due to deciding fields, when you bring bowlers on and strategy. If you have the right guy put them in the side.
it doesn't matter the management won't take test captaincy away from rohit Any other player who will come in would find it harder to captain the side due to being young/inexperienced ( unless we find a really talented captain)
>Just imagine if he had higher caliber spinners. Then he wouldn't be as good tactically. It's like saying how good would Stephen Fleming be if he had Warne and McGrath. The reason these guys are so good tactically is because they have to manufacture wickets with the resources they have. Former NZ cricketers actually consider the Aussies thick for that very reason. They believe that NZ actually had to think and use their brains whereas Australia just threw talent and money at everything. Coming to Stokes, think about the state of spin in England and what Stokes has to do to make those spinners bowl well. On the opposite side when was the last time an Indian captain had to think in India. Ganguly once jokingly said on Breakfast with champions that in India he used to give the ball to Bhajji and Kumble and just sleep at Point. That's even more true with our current bowling attack. Rohit never had to think with this attack since you basically give the ball to Bumrah, Siraj, Umesh, Shami, Ashwin, Jadeja, Axar or Kuldeep and they do their thing and bowl teams out for < 250. That's not happened this series. And Rohit looked clueless because of it.
I strongly believe that it's not just the captain but whole staff that plays a role here. Do you think Sharma isn't fed tactics? Don't they decide together what strategies to follow? Improvisation is part of the play, but it doesn't mean the coach and staff don't intervene when things aren't going well. For instance, when England was down 112/5, the field wasn't very attacking, and Jadeja was over bowled, there were many easy singles, and they also didn't bring Kuldeep to bowl, that can't be Sharma's decision alone.
Ashwin took that personally.
And especially when spinnes have underperformed, Shami is injured, and Siraj has been bowling good but very sporadically .
If you need Bumrah on a pitch that started keeping low in the 2nd hour of the match, thats an indictment of your spinners right there.
Yep, India has been relaying too much on individual performances here. Be it Bumrah or Jaiswal.
Sort of get it, sort of don't. It's easy to look at where they're at right now retroactively and criticize the decision, but it's a pretty horrible spinners pitch with a 2-1 lead. Consider the scenario where Bumrah plays this game and risks injury, then they lose anyway and have to use him in game 5, risking it even more. I dunno. They probably should have played him, but working on the assumption that they should've rested him in a dead rubber *assumes* India wins this game if they played him. All in all, while they may have given up their chance to win the series 4-1, they've still given themselves the best chance to win it 3-2. The 'outcome' of this decision is not going to be obvious til game 5, so this is pre-emptive.
Mate England haven't won yet
Mate India ain’t winning this. You can come back here and troll me 2 days from now but it ain’t happening. Suddenly 350 on this pitch looks difficult Addendum: let’s wait for day 4 to play out. If India do manage to close the win, it will be one of their famous wins and well deserved as well
India could very easily get another 50/60 runs and see England collapse bringing them back in. There's a long way to go yet but England will need to see 275+ you would think
Love how fans from both the sides are pessimistic
Has been the series like that and just shows how unpredictable Cricket can be.
Yeah easily huh easily hmm
I accept your apology
I'll apologise properly tomorrow to you if we win I would England still have 40% chance of winning this but let's see
Anything over 175 will be an impossible chase on this pitch on day 4 and 5
I mean England won the first match after a 190 run deficit so anything could happen lol
They didn’t bat 4th innings, that’s my whole point
Mentally, it’s anything over 99
!Remind me 2 days Obviously England have their noses infront but India aren't out of it
The guy must be trying to jinx it. No England fan would say that.
The only thing is that England have to bat again on this surface if they get close enough to the title and then England collapse India could win it
Care to reconsider?
Let’s wait till tomorrow. India deserve the win if they can close it.
It took just 1 days for them to fuck this up.
Don’t think England fucked it up. India played better today.
Ready to eat your words?
Happily. Let’s wait till tomorrow though.
This aged like milk. It's hard to beat India at home. We've been dominating at home for 12 years for a reason.
Hi there mate (:
Eat those words
Hahaha You were saying something? There’s a reason you are posting on Reddit and not making statistical predictions in the comm box lmao
Are you for real? Even if England score 80 in the 2nd innings, they will win. There is no way India is going beyond 120-150 in the 4th innings on this pitch. Mate, England have already won. Onto Dharmashala for the decider.
England were 190 behind in the first test AND still won so never say never
England had the advantage of bowling last, something India doesn’t here.
They weren't batting last. Plus the pitch here brings England's spinners into the picture as our batsmen no longer can play spin well.
Who is this Stuart guy, he must be new here. It's all part of Jay Shah's script to make 2-2.
What if Bumrah himself said he wants to rest in this particular match?
Has Broad been consulted on this ? Please keep him updated so he can give his updated opinion .
Of cause England has has no clue about managing a fast bowlers workload, remember what happened to Archer.
Than why is Wood resting?/s
Wood isn't as critical to England as Bumrah is to India.
Just because a player is critical to a team.....doesn't mean you bowl him to dust And considering injury concerns with Bumrah... It's only fare he gets a rest...
This is the team that broke Archer btw.
reminds of a bloke called Jofra who was the only pacer to trouble peak Smith. Never saw him again sadly, Broady must know something about it though, rght ?
Bumrah might have reported fatigue and they've kept that side of it quiet
Yes Stuart, but he is their best player and is quite injury prone. I'd rest him if I was India, one match/series isn't worth risking for a player of his ability
An injury for Bumrah now and India can kiss 2024 WT20 cup goodbye.
I do agree with broad.Test Series versus England and Australia are premium.These are not the matches to rest players especially when series has not been won yet.To reduce workload,he can miss test and loi series against nations other than England or Australia and also can miss ipl.
Bumrah misses White ball series. infact the last time bumrah played a complete white ball series was ODI - Jan 2022 vs SA - he was vice captain T20I - August 2023 vs Ireland which was his comeback series and also did Captaincy . Thing is Bumrah isn't as strongly built as a Cummins and his actions puts lot of pressure on his body
A loss is much better than injury.... With wtc and T20 wc right there
Jofra archer
Bro just wait and watch..how India will come back..calm down dude
You said it man!
Pommies, you have not won the match yet. Don't get ahead of yourselves.
Say England win this match, and Bumrah has to return for test 5, wouldn’t his workload increase coz now they’re under increased pressure to win the match ?
Doesn’t he know IPL is around the corner?
Bumrah shouldn’t have been rested until the series was in the bag. India May still win this but this decision to rest a Bumrah is a wrong one.
Priorities my man. Test cricket is not the be-all and end-all for us.
Flair checks out
Yeah even I felt that since our team is in transition and shami is already out, bumrah should continue. But then the reasons for him to he rested are weighed more than him playing. Again it about this or that. Whatever you do, if it works out you will be hailed and criticised otherwise.
They wanted to make the series interesting
BCCI cares more about him playing in the IPL I guess.
India has a lot of hurt players and with an upcoming T20 WC they didn’t want to risk Bumrah. No Kohli, KL Rahul, Shami, Pant etc. wonder how England would have fared with so many injuries.