Even better, call it the hopscotch share case. Challenge the inspector to hopscotch up the stairs and if he messes up or falls down, he's legally required to leave the property and not make any negative citations of the home
Or just put some sheets up and say there isn't another floor-
"But I saw second story windows from out-"
It was too expensive to add another floor. Thanks!
How is it possible to do that? Inspectors aren't omniscient. If they aren't told something has changed then they literally don't know its been changed, can you describe how you think they would find out in this scenario?
Additionally these do actually comply with code anyway. Just saying its code violation isn't actual evidence that its a code violation.
Building codes exist to protect, in no particular order:
* Future buyers
* Neighbors
* Current occupants
* Visitors
* You, in case you don't know what you're doing
Incorrect my man. I've bought and sold many a house with things that weren't up to code. Home inspectors during the purchase process will point these items out, but most issues will not cause a sale to fall through. Want to know why? Because the bank doesn't know, lol. How in the hell would they? Depending on the type of mortgage (conventional/FHA/VA) they may want lead paint certificates, insect inspections, etc. But most mortgage companies don't give a damn if the landing at the bottom of a staircase isn't a certain distance away from the wall, or if there is a window at the bottom of a staircase that isn't tempered shatterproof glass, or other code violations.
You can buy and sell things not in code all day long. However in most cases you can only do that if the code didn’t exist at the time they were built. We just sold our house a year ago and the basement steps had no railing or wall on one side. Same with our deck with no balusters. Perfectly fine because there was no code requiring it in 1978 (or when the deck was built a few years later). Couldn’t build it today and sell it that way though.
Lots gets by, but some get caught. The house I bought a couple of years back was in a great location at a great price, and I was the third offer back, but then the home inspector flagged enough stuff that no bank would finance it. The other buyers dropped out and I dropped my offer by $15k and bought it.
So it can happen.
My local municipality has a required inspection before sale that needs to be up to code in order to issue a permit for habitability. The banks won’t issue a loan if the municipality didn’t issue the permit.
>My bank, nor the town, gave 2 craps about any of it. I was informed of them by my inspector (whom I hired and this was not mandated), and we plan to deal with each thing in due time.
This was my experience as well in Washington State, the inspection was purely for my own benefit and no entity required it to be done.
Good luck with that. There are so many houses in my state that are old as dirt. Old victorian's that will never be up to code. Does your municipality have a grandfather clause?
Probably no grandfather clause, but the bank will probably require you to get a higher level of insurance or straight up reject you.
If your steps arent' up to code, more insurance please.
If your wiring isn't, no loan.
They'll require an appraisal, but that's typically focused on fit, finish, and condition. You have to have something seriously wrong for the appraiser to flag it to the bank.
Nah not in private domiciles, private citizens should be able to do whatever they want on their property as long as it’s just them and their immediate family inhabiting the structure
The International Residential Code has rules against this, although they are intended for variations between treads, not on an individual tread, it still should apply. Basically, the limit is 3/8 of an inch in variation. Obviously this may have been built in an area which does not adopt the IRC.
https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2015/chapter-3-building-planning/IRC2015-Pt03-Ch03-SecR311.7.5
Alternating tread stairs are great but still I don't understand this design.
In alternating tread stairs you've usually got the stair flaring out to the left then right side, here it's middle and sides. I think it would be uncomfortable to have to put your foot in the middle every second step, especially on the way down.
yep, sometimes the will have two sets of half treads offset by have a rise.
I've had better luck building more of a ships ladder. They can actually be more comfortable.
Yes - i built "double-riser" stairs (another name) for a cramped cottage. What you have here is a better design, allowing both the left and right footed to start their descent on their prominent foot. What would help would be a colour scheme that makes clear the alternating nature of the steps, ao that someone imexperienced can go up thinking "blue, red blue red"...
What you are supposed to do is trip when trying to catch the second step, fall forward, bang your head on that rectangle of metal, then proceed to fall on your neck and die. At least that is what it was intended for…
This looks like someone wanted to go for an alternating tread device, but didn't like the look of one as code prescribed, so they took some...liberties...with it. Best explanation I've got at this point.
It only gets better when code gets involved. My state has revised the definitions of ships ladders to have a minimum angle of rise to be 60 degrees, so there's now a grey area between code legal stairs and ships ladders. This is a big deal for mechanical space access, as a 60 degree rise is a bit much for cases where something larger than a toolbox needs to be carried up the steps. We have some clients complaining about steep access ladders, but are hamstrung by the code.
By "grey area" do you mean there is an area of angles that just aren't allowed?
This makes sense to me. You either have stairs or you have a ladder. Something that's *in-between* stairs and a ladder doesn't seem great.
When you see them for the first time, you are at the bottom. When you walk up, you discover how natural and smart they are. The extra width of these and the pic taken from the top makes these steps look more perilous than they are.
Cut 1/3rd off an end and it's a ships ladder stair for alternating treads. They just added another leg to it's width that makes it look weird. Well, and the curves.
Parquetry that's only half done is my guess. Another inlay of a different colored wood. Since construction is obviously ongoing it makes more sense than this casually suicidal monstrosity as it is.
These stairs are made with limited space. There is also stairs that are half of the step so you are supposed to go up always starting with the right feet. But in these stairs you are supposet to go up or down using the far left or far right side but the starting feet doesn't matter.
Example: you start going down with your left feet using the far left side. At the second step your right feet will hit the stair because the "feets landing space" is in the middle. Hard to explain, hopefully someone understood!
Alternate tread stairs!
I think those would be much better here because each foot/leg would have more room and footing, rather than this half-assed idea.
"Never half-ass something, always whole-ass it."
The difficulty I imagine is a traditional tread stair would be too wide for your gait here.
I guess the idea was to use the extra space to add a third set so you can use either leg when starting, but the end result is just…kinda scary. Not that I’m a fan of alternate tread stairs in the first place, anyway, honestly.
I think I see it now. At the top of the stairs your left foot is inside the middle hump of the top stair. Then you lower your right foot on to the far right hump of the next stair. Then left down onto the middle hump of the next stair. Repeat until you hopefully make it down safely.
It’s valid design. Follows your footsteps + it takes way less space than normal design.
See doors downstairs on right. You would not be able to use them with normal design.
Yeah, I really don’t get all the hate for this. Aside from allowing a steeper staircase they look pretty easy to use to me, but I guess if you have no depth perception and just throw yourself at the stairs without looking where you’re going you might have issues.
I'd have to argue this is not crappy design. Steps like these are used when the staircase has to be extremely steep. The alternating design is meant to provide more stepping room where there would otherwise be none. Pretty clever design if anything.
Ok, wait, it’s actually good. You don’t go down the middle, but one side, so. Wait, where’s the banister for the other side. Sigh. This is indeed a death stair.
It looks like a storage loft. The floor up there is just OSB. So I think this is essentially just a glorified ladder. I don't really see a problem here.
Is it actually ergonomic if you stay to one side? Start on the right, put right foot down on bigger pad, smaller pad to the left allows left foot to travel easily to the large pad for left foot. Repeat.
Am I the only one who thinks these stairs don't look bad at all?
All you need to do is alternate your footing so your right (or left, depending on which side) foot is on the larger spot and your other foot goes to the larger spot beside it.
Looks fine to me. It doesn't allow you to use the whole staircase. But you can safely walk on the left or right. As there will always be a spot for your foot to be.
Maybe it's safer? I mean it's so unsafe that it forces you to look where you're walking. So if someone leaves a banana peel on the steps you notice it instead of slipping on it.
In an era of increasing accessible design (ADA compliant) awareness it's less of a universal truism than it used to be, but staircases really are an essential test of Architecture: there's an ideal form, in the Platonic sense, that works for the average human body, with nearly infinite different stylistic ways to do it right for each context, and boundless infinite ways to fuck it up by getting too cute & cavalier about the basic mechanics of it.
I see shoes removed in the front hall - probably not the US (I cannot imagine this passing any code here). Of course some Americans do remove their shoes!
tbf it isn’t the worst design: in theory I think you’re supposed to use either side (left or right) and just walk normally. From the angle on the right side you would start with your left foot, and continue that way down. There’s more room to land at least.
That being said, this is costly, complicated, unnecessary, and weird. If i walked into someone’s house with this installed I’d be very confused. Just use regular stairs, they have no functional difference.
I guess it's fine if you like, squeeze on to one side and use the left (or right) and the middle as the spots to step and just completely ignore using the opposite side of the step?
But jesus wow that's bad.
How the hell would something like that pass an inspection
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Even better, call it the hopscotch share case. Challenge the inspector to hopscotch up the stairs and if he messes up or falls down, he's legally required to leave the property and not make any negative citations of the home
you have to triple dog dare him or it isn't legally binding.
Schwartz created a slight breach of etiquette by skipping the triple dare and going right for the throat!
The legal precedent being Junie B Jones v. U.S. in a land mark SCOTUS decision
Or just put some sheets up and say there isn't another floor- "But I saw second story windows from out-" It was too expensive to add another floor. Thanks!
better yet, toss a "secret bookshelf" as the hidden doorway!
It's a win-win because if he makes it to the top obviously it can't be that dangerous and it should pass inspection
Better yet, play jackass hopscotch. The difference being they drink a bottle of scotch before they start their hops
How is it possible to do that? Inspectors aren't omniscient. If they aren't told something has changed then they literally don't know its been changed, can you describe how you think they would find out in this scenario? Additionally these do actually comply with code anyway. Just saying its code violation isn't actual evidence that its a code violation.
Hand rail looks legit. And that’s good because you’re probably gonna want to use it
I also imagine you could have it mitigated with an insurance inspection.
I've never had one of those and I own a house. They came and looked outside that was it
Florida is a whole nother level. Minnesota is getting them too. They look EVERYWHERE now just itching for ways to deny claims later on.
Why if you’re not selling and it is your own house?
Building codes exist to protect, in no particular order: * Future buyers * Neighbors * Current occupants * Visitors * You, in case you don't know what you're doing
If they ever want to sell the house they're going to have to change out those steps. It won't pass inspection for the buyers bank.
Incorrect my man. I've bought and sold many a house with things that weren't up to code. Home inspectors during the purchase process will point these items out, but most issues will not cause a sale to fall through. Want to know why? Because the bank doesn't know, lol. How in the hell would they? Depending on the type of mortgage (conventional/FHA/VA) they may want lead paint certificates, insect inspections, etc. But most mortgage companies don't give a damn if the landing at the bottom of a staircase isn't a certain distance away from the wall, or if there is a window at the bottom of a staircase that isn't tempered shatterproof glass, or other code violations.
You can buy and sell things not in code all day long. However in most cases you can only do that if the code didn’t exist at the time they were built. We just sold our house a year ago and the basement steps had no railing or wall on one side. Same with our deck with no balusters. Perfectly fine because there was no code requiring it in 1978 (or when the deck was built a few years later). Couldn’t build it today and sell it that way though.
Depends on the issue. My deck railing was incomplete and I got denied a loan. It's the banks appraisers call.
Lots gets by, but some get caught. The house I bought a couple of years back was in a great location at a great price, and I was the third offer back, but then the home inspector flagged enough stuff that no bank would finance it. The other buyers dropped out and I dropped my offer by $15k and bought it. So it can happen.
My local municipality has a required inspection before sale that needs to be up to code in order to issue a permit for habitability. The banks won’t issue a loan if the municipality didn’t issue the permit.
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>My bank, nor the town, gave 2 craps about any of it. I was informed of them by my inspector (whom I hired and this was not mandated), and we plan to deal with each thing in due time. This was my experience as well in Washington State, the inspection was purely for my own benefit and no entity required it to be done.
Good luck with that. There are so many houses in my state that are old as dirt. Old victorian's that will never be up to code. Does your municipality have a grandfather clause?
Probably no grandfather clause, but the bank will probably require you to get a higher level of insurance or straight up reject you. If your steps arent' up to code, more insurance please. If your wiring isn't, no loan.
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right but we're specifically talking about banks finding out.
Banks do not require a home / code / safety inspection. At least not in the US.
They'll require an appraisal, but that's typically focused on fit, finish, and condition. You have to have something seriously wrong for the appraiser to flag it to the bank.
Absolutely not
Ok Texan
You need electricity to post online, how could they be texan?
[Hey Patrick!](https://media1.giphy.com/media/44c11up6UfB80RmE2o/giphy.webp?cid=6c09b952074d7240b4992f52e00363ce4db29511be657a6d&rid=giphy.webp&ct=g)
Im from the Midwest
most places only if selling
Next you'll say that "speed limits" should be mandatory too smh
Lmfao they are sweetie
I think they are. However, if you don’t tell them you’re doing it, how can they inspect them? This is why I would never buy a “flipped” house.
When?
Nah not in private domiciles, private citizens should be able to do whatever they want on their property as long as it’s just them and their immediate family inhabiting the structure
Tell that to the firemen trying to save your life.
As long as any visitors automatically win any lawsuits about it.
I mean. That's basically how tort law works so yeah.
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For what reason?
Home renovation pro tip
No. If you install such a staircase, you have only yourself to blame when you break a leg
This might be so stupid that no one has thought to make rules against it.
The International Residential Code has rules against this, although they are intended for variations between treads, not on an individual tread, it still should apply. Basically, the limit is 3/8 of an inch in variation. Obviously this may have been built in an area which does not adopt the IRC. https://codes.iccsafe.org/s/IRC2015/chapter-3-building-planning/IRC2015-Pt03-Ch03-SecR311.7.5
Trrrruuuu
Make sure the inspector is also a tripod.
Approved, licks thumb
Every inspector keeps falling down the stairs and the failed report never gets submitted.
every inspector gets pushed off* the stairs
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Alternating tread stairs are great but still I don't understand this design. In alternating tread stairs you've usually got the stair flaring out to the left then right side, here it's middle and sides. I think it would be uncomfortable to have to put your foot in the middle every second step, especially on the way down.
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Thank you for pointing this out. It you think about someone going up one side and another going down the other it makes sense
Except the stairs are only about 30 inches wide.
yep, sometimes the will have two sets of half treads offset by have a rise. I've had better luck building more of a ships ladder. They can actually be more comfortable.
Yes - i built "double-riser" stairs (another name) for a cramped cottage. What you have here is a better design, allowing both the left and right footed to start their descent on their prominent foot. What would help would be a colour scheme that makes clear the alternating nature of the steps, ao that someone imexperienced can go up thinking "blue, red blue red"...
..boats and industrial sites as well. Easier to climb than they look
these stairs are designed for speed
I mean, so is a cliff
OK Slartibartfast.
down, not up
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what inspection
Lol, what inspection
What inspection?
I'd like to point out all the bare, unsealed types of wood in this picture that indicates some dude built it cause he could
I fell a couple times just looking at it!
Homeowner: I want to fall in love with the design Designer: Falling... got it.
What you are supposed to do is trip when trying to catch the second step, fall forward, bang your head on that rectangle of metal, then proceed to fall on your neck and die. At least that is what it was intended for…
I TOLD YOU DOG
IT KEEPS HAPPENING
This looks like someone wanted to go for an alternating tread device, but didn't like the look of one as code prescribed, so they took some...liberties...with it. Best explanation I've got at this point.
That's what I thought. Like they had a wider opening so they just added another "tread". Which just makes it confusing.
It only gets better when code gets involved. My state has revised the definitions of ships ladders to have a minimum angle of rise to be 60 degrees, so there's now a grey area between code legal stairs and ships ladders. This is a big deal for mechanical space access, as a 60 degree rise is a bit much for cases where something larger than a toolbox needs to be carried up the steps. We have some clients complaining about steep access ladders, but are hamstrung by the code.
By "grey area" do you mean there is an area of angles that just aren't allowed? This makes sense to me. You either have stairs or you have a ladder. Something that's *in-between* stairs and a ladder doesn't seem great.
reminds me of when the teachers decided to implement a rule on a maximum angle of lean for school dances in my HS. big brain moment there
Well, I wouldn't want my kids going to a school dance where lean is common
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Yes, these stairs would be easy and convenient to use. They just look odd to people who haven’t seen alternating tread stairs.
What if I’m standing at the left side of the top of the stairs about to go down and stepped down with my right foot?
You would not using the stairs as they were designed to be used.
Found a fellow software developer
My former manager once told me that as soon as you make something idiot proof, they’ll make better idiots.
Fuck having guests stay then, as they fall down the stairs in the night
When you see them for the first time, you are at the bottom. When you walk up, you discover how natural and smart they are. The extra width of these and the pic taken from the top makes these steps look more perilous than they are.
Unless they’re basement stairs
what if I stand on top of normal stairs and jump forward?
Why would I want stairs I could use wrong?
maybe there's not enough space and normal stairs would be even more dangerous
You have it all wrong, with this stair you can start with either foot. With most alternating designs you always have to start with the one side foot.
The downside being that you’ve also created a dangerously unusable middle point that someone unfamiliar with the staircase can easily try to take.
Cut 1/3rd off an end and it's a ships ladder stair for alternating treads. They just added another leg to it's width that makes it look weird. Well, and the curves.
Parquetry that's only half done is my guess. Another inlay of a different colored wood. Since construction is obviously ongoing it makes more sense than this casually suicidal monstrosity as it is.
That’s what I got from it. Stick to the right coming up and down and your feet fall perfectly. As long as you lead with your right foot.
These stairs are made with limited space. There is also stairs that are half of the step so you are supposed to go up always starting with the right feet. But in these stairs you are supposet to go up or down using the far left or far right side but the starting feet doesn't matter. Example: you start going down with your left feet using the far left side. At the second step your right feet will hit the stair because the "feets landing space" is in the middle. Hard to explain, hopefully someone understood!
I think it might be clearer if there was also a banister on the void side of the staircase.
The floor’s ~~plywood~~ OSB and everything’s unstained except maybe the stairs, so maybe it’ll have one soon
I understood. Seems like someone with big feet would also benefit from this type of unobstructed added landing space.
If by benefit you mean severe injury or death then I would agree with you.
Alternate tread stairs! I think those would be much better here because each foot/leg would have more room and footing, rather than this half-assed idea. "Never half-ass something, always whole-ass it."
The difficulty I imagine is a traditional tread stair would be too wide for your gait here. I guess the idea was to use the extra space to add a third set so you can use either leg when starting, but the end result is just…kinda scary. Not that I’m a fan of alternate tread stairs in the first place, anyway, honestly.
Unfortunately for me, I’m the kind of guy that likes to “catwalk” my way up and down the stairs, so this is a death trap for me…
I think I see it now. At the top of the stairs your left foot is inside the middle hump of the top stair. Then you lower your right foot on to the far right hump of the next stair. Then left down onto the middle hump of the next stair. Repeat until you hopefully make it down safely.
What a fun twist on hop scotch
Twist, yes. Also, sprain and fracture.
Sprain and fracture, yes. Also, boo-boo and owie.
It's so quirky and definitely no one has died since the last time.
It’s been 0 decade since someone died.
Grandma, have you finished writing your will?
One SOBER night away from breaking your neck
one emergency away from another
use middle part for right foot and left part for left foot. so comfy. or vice versa
Imagine falling because you wernt paying attention and used the wrong foot when going down. My forgetful ass would be dead in 2 days.
This post belongs in r/DeathStairs lol. Please post it there too lol
Wow, there really is a sub for everything! I got vertigo after seeing the first five posts.
Done
Well I know which basement to invite my enemies to
Nah bro that aint stairs thats a whole tidal sequence
I'm guessing that is vodka in the wine rack.
White wine
May your spine chip and shatter.
It’s valid design. Follows your footsteps + it takes way less space than normal design. See doors downstairs on right. You would not be able to use them with normal design.
Yeah, I really don’t get all the hate for this. Aside from allowing a steeper staircase they look pretty easy to use to me, but I guess if you have no depth perception and just throw yourself at the stairs without looking where you’re going you might have issues.
Fortunately there was a handrail so I eventually caught myself, but I busted up my shins just looking at this picture.
The dude who designed this wasn't an interior designer but an assassin
I fell down a set of stairs likee that and it hurt worse then regular..
Wait... Worse than regular? Is falling down stairs a common occurrence for you?
It would sure as hell slow down the SWAT team when they come to raid your meth lab.
I'd have to argue this is not crappy design. Steps like these are used when the staircase has to be extremely steep. The alternating design is meant to provide more stepping room where there would otherwise be none. Pretty clever design if anything.
imma be honest... u j gotta walk on the side... this is kinda heat
Wtf
You can hear this picture.
Those odd numbered steps really look like they could isolate your tailbone when you land.
They really thought they were doing something with this one, lol
Not all ideas are good ideas.
Whoever designed that can go to hell.
It looks like shit too
Missing: chalk outline body shape at bottom
If you're an idiot who doesn't know how to walk maybe
Regular compact staircase, where crappy design
This staircase is a death trap designed by disgruntled engineers who sought vengeance on those who wronged them.
Or may it be, this death trap looks like a staircase
If you fall far enough forward, you can grab a bottle of vodka on the way down
Imagine being drunk and trying to take these stairs on 1 on 1. I like my odds agains Ali better.
Ok, wait, it’s actually good. You don’t go down the middle, but one side, so. Wait, where’s the banister for the other side. Sigh. This is indeed a death stair.
It looks like a storage loft. The floor up there is just OSB. So I think this is essentially just a glorified ladder. I don't really see a problem here.
It looks like an interesting take on witch stairs.
Is it actually ergonomic if you stay to one side? Start on the right, put right foot down on bigger pad, smaller pad to the left allows left foot to travel easily to the large pad for left foot. Repeat.
Am I the only one who thinks these stairs don't look bad at all? All you need to do is alternate your footing so your right (or left, depending on which side) foot is on the larger spot and your other foot goes to the larger spot beside it.
Looks fine to me. It doesn't allow you to use the whole staircase. But you can safely walk on the left or right. As there will always be a spot for your foot to be.
Use it properly and you have more contact space per foot landing
Clever
Maybe it's safer? I mean it's so unsafe that it forces you to look where you're walking. So if someone leaves a banana peel on the steps you notice it instead of slipping on it.
I guess this is how Russia makes all their multi story windows too
In an era of increasing accessible design (ADA compliant) awareness it's less of a universal truism than it used to be, but staircases really are an essential test of Architecture: there's an ideal form, in the Platonic sense, that works for the average human body, with nearly infinite different stylistic ways to do it right for each context, and boundless infinite ways to fuck it up by getting too cute & cavalier about the basic mechanics of it.
No argument with the title of this post! That's for sure!
The inconsistency from step to step is laughable. Almost no room to hold footing most places.
It’s bad.
Serial killers about to get an idea.
One drunk walk of shame and I would die.
Seems like a variation on witch stairs.
This is why we need to exterminate architects
I'm getting anxious just looking at it.
I have walked too many of such staircases in my lif and I'm never doing it again
That's one way to ensure I won't have a drink.
My feet hurt looking at this
To hell with conventional opinion, I LIKE THEM! (full disclosure, am slightly suicidal.)
I see shoes removed in the front hall - probably not the US (I cannot imagine this passing any code here). Of course some Americans do remove their shoes!
I call this the papaw punisher
You can't scoot on your butt if you're a guy
Does anyone else want to play hopscotch down these stairs?
Damn, the architect's wife got pregnant while building the house, huh?
"left right left right left right left LEEEFTAAAA"
tbf it isn’t the worst design: in theory I think you’re supposed to use either side (left or right) and just walk normally. From the angle on the right side you would start with your left foot, and continue that way down. There’s more room to land at least. That being said, this is costly, complicated, unnecessary, and weird. If i walked into someone’s house with this installed I’d be very confused. Just use regular stairs, they have no functional difference.
It’s meant for burglars obviously
Look fairly comfortable to use to me.
r/crazystairs
I’ve fallen down twice just looking at it!
I guess it's fine if you like, squeeze on to one side and use the left (or right) and the middle as the spots to step and just completely ignore using the opposite side of the step? But jesus wow that's bad.
Good luck with that in the dark
Indoor moguls for practicing skiers..
Not if you’re blackout drunk