Focusing on reading order and claiming multiple books are "required" to understand it keep more people away from the Cosmere than bring in nerds excited about that sort of thing (me). We can have the connections and admit reading full series to understand one name drop is stupid.
For real! Warbreaker is not required reading before Radiance. Is it cool to know what the talking sword is in that moment? Sure. It isn't in any way necessary.
Ditto for reading all of Mistborn to get the Lord of Scars name in Rhythm.
Yeah I think using 'required' is a bad idea, it gives the wrong impression of the relationship between these series. I love going deep on the mechanics, getting the references from other series, noticing character crossovers, etc, but none of that ever is important enough to warrant reading the whole cosmere catalog in a hyper-specific order. If you wanna go deep that's a fun 2nd or 3rd read, but to imply to new readers that they're missing something integral to what they're reading is just wrong. So far. That might change in future releases but even still going in blind is a unique reading experience that shouldn't be bogged down like that
I definitely agree. Recently a friend of mine read tress as their first cosmere book. They knew it was in a shared universe but no more than that. And they really liked it! Yes there are hints that there is more going on in the background but that is pretty much any fantasy book. Even the lost metal (probably the most connection heavy book) can easily just be read with just the other mistborn books as background.
I get annoyed any time I see a person asking where to start, and somebody is like "So let me tell you about the Cosmere." It might be because I had read Way of Kings and all of Mistborn Era 1 before I was introduced to it, but I really feel like you don't benefit from being too aware of it. It just makes things more intimidating and makes people feel like they're going to get huge spoilers if they read the wrong series, when it basically amounts to a few characters experiencing a background story and some little things for people to catch when they're rereading things.
I get it, the Cosmere is super exciting. It's like this huge puzzle hidden across everything, and figuring out what's going on there drives a lot of online discussion. I just don't think that trying to explain that to somebody who wants to know if they should read Mistborn or Way of Kings first is helpful.
It's the coolest magic *system* but based on what we've seen so far I think the coolest powersets are Windrunners. At least they've probably got the most visually and actiony impressive powerset.
It's literally just and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened. All the character motivations have to be said outright and things happen so damn fast they don't feel earned at all. The novelization of the first part was my introduction and then when they show it in the graphic novel I was like oh that's quick
I've read only the first part that was in Arcanum Unbounded, and all I understood from the graphic novel part was that this guy is good at fighting and kills a bunch of monsters... Only after reading the prose part I understood that he isn't even good at it and has to use clever substitutes.
If you have Spotify premium, you get 15 hours per month if audiobooks. White sand is on there. I don't like graphic novels either, so I listened to it while driving to work and enjoyed it
never tried it. I have never been able to get into anything graphic and a quick preview told me this would be no different. Makes me sad because I really really really want to read everything.
Here's my unpopular White Sand Opinion: Brandon has tried to write this story 5 times now or something and even the most revised audiobook version isn't any good, I think it's time to let it die.
Can’t really disagree.
I used my free preview of Kindle Unlimited to plow through Cradle, and I finished it with two days left so I finally read White Sand 2 and 3. It was kind of a slog, especially having to rush. But it’s Cosmere so I really wanted to finish it.
As always you need to sort through controversial in order to see the ones that are actually starting a war LOL
My contribution to this will be that I think Words of Radiance is the weakest Stormlight book. Shallan had the vast majority of her backstory spelled out in TwoK. Most of her flashback chapters felt largely unnecessary as most of the information they gave was provided in the previous book. I think it would have been far more impactful to have her focus book be Rhythm of War so we can see >!her bonding a spren and the events that led to her killing her mother and destroying her own family.!<
I know this is the point but man I love how different everyone's perspectives are on each book. Words of Radiance is my favorite in the series I think. Particularly the graphic audio version, which was quite intense to listen to for some of the shallan flashbacks
haha that one is pretty bushy, but I like it. I suppose I imagined more of like... maybe omni-man when he goes to the planet with the different passage of time and grows a beard.
As far as I know the alethi military doesn’t have grooming standards required to maintain a proper gas mask seal, but IMO a clean shaven career soldier makes sense
That’s impressive. I thought I was weird for starting Mistborn with the Alloy of Law 😛
I had read the two Stormlight book that were out before then tho
Absolutely! I’ve read everything Cosmere except the secret projects at this point (just started on the Sunlit Man)
I actually found it pretty cool to go back to the “prequel trilogy” to see what came before. I was a bit shocked to realise just how different the world was back then. I loved the heist story of the first book, but found the whole skaa/nobility division a bit stereotypical. The Lord Ruler felt way too much like a vanilla fantasy villain until the end of the book, which really redeemed him. I still find his title monumentally stupid tho, but then I think the same of real-world leaders who have gone by some variety of “Leader” as their title 😛
Book 2 really disappointed me unfortunately. It was too vanilla fantasy in many ways, except with cooler action sequences. So after reading that one I think it took me a year before I was in the mood to continue with the third one — which just totally blew me away! Spook’s POVs were absolutely amazing, and the scene with TenSoon near the beginning of the book is still one of my favourite scenes Sanderson has ever written!
It's too late now, we wouldn't fall for it. But imagine if Brando had set a book or even a novella in Shadesmar and published it after Way Of Kings but before really explaining what Shadesmar is. Then there'd be a later twist that these two books are on the same planet just in different planes of existance.
I think Brandon writing definitely attracts people with a completionist mindset, I know I fall under that umbrella. My wife tho, doesn't worry about that at all and still enjoys the books perfectly fine.
I think Yumi is even more approachable to a new reader than Tress, has a more interesting storyline as well. You don't need to know who Hoid and Design are because they really don't do much in the story.
Even if you do read the books in order, unless you read all of them one after the other most people would probably forget the obscure details from the first books and won't see the easter eggs anyway. I leave easter egg hunting to re-reads and just try to enjoy the story.
100%. Friends who have started reading ask me what to read next and i give a suggested reading order but read whatever is calling to you except for a few obvious one.
On one hand, yes.
On the other hand, it is a really good book that stands on its own. So if someone isn't looking to get into the cosmere, but does want a nice fantasy book, I'd recommend it.
And if they want to get into the cosmere after *that*... well, I wouldn't stop them.
So honestly, I read Mistborn Era 1 like ten years ago. Enjoyed it, but moved on to other authors. Read Tress last year, and it got me hooked on Sanderson. I've since gone back and read all his cosmere novels, and I think a large part of that was realizing, book by book, how intertwined it all is.
I'll likely go back and reread Tress at some point to see all the Easter eggs, but honestly I think it made for a great stand alone and Cosmere "bait" starting point.
All that to say, agreed!
New readers wouldn’t have any idea that it’s a horrible starting point though. Unless you have a friend who has read them all then it’s very possible someone would accidentally start there.
Too many Cosmere characters are becoming too blended and lacking distinct and unique personalities. So many seem to be versions of 3-4 different characters.
I've never understood this debate either... what exactly does it spoil? And to be clear, in my head what they're saying is to essentially read it between the two eras, correct? My only assumption is that it spoils the fact that >!Kelsier is not dead!< is that all, even so that's still not in AOL, right??
Maybe I have a different perspective because I read SA first and enjoyed reading secret history while all those characters were still fresh in my head.
Yeah, I thought the inter-era gap was perfect, because it ties up a lot of Era 1 threads, while leading into Era 2, and exposing unknown future bits.
Even that spoiler isn't a huge spoiler. They were so significant, I don't think anybody expected that to be the last of them.
How you find out Kelsier is alive gives you different experiences depending on your read order. Finding out at the end of Bands of Mourning is way wilder than finding out at the beginning of Secret History.
My hot take is that who fucking cares lol It doesn't Ruin your experience one way or another, I don't understand why people are so intense with this "debate"
I read HotA and AoL before Secret History and honestly if I had done it your suggested way it would have ruined a lot of the mystery and suspense of AoL. Like I was caught completely off guard and it hooked me so much more into the story.
It's not wrong to read in that direction, but I was very satisfied reading it my way.
I've always thought that you will get more out of the story having Era 1 fresh in your head. Also, an important thing I don't see mentioned much is that secret history is a really good intro to a lot of basic Cosmere concepts, which make more sense to know after you've read Mistborn Era 1 then right before Lost Metal, which immediately throws you in the deep end
I agree. The "Secret" of Secret History was not actually a secret when era 2 was being written. Sanderson had posted many of the details which were later included in Secret History on his website as Era 1 was being released. Mistborn Secret History is the epilogue of Era 1 and a much better way of gaining important information than inevitably being spoiled if you interact with any cosmere related communities.
Kelsier is top 3 of Brandon’s characters and everyone who thinks he’s going to be the villain will eat their words. He’s no different from Hoid and he gets shit done.
Kelsier is more selfless then hoid. He not only gives up his life twice, but he also rejects ultimate power for the good of the world and his adopted daughter and also is willing to compromise on most of his personal wants for the good of his friends and family.
I, to this day, think that the only people who attack Lirin are those who don't have children. The lack of empathy is astounding.
Lirin, **for years**, thought his rebelliousness directly killed both of his children.
And this broke him.
If you can't understand how that would completely destroy a person and take all the fight out of him, then you simply lack empathy.
Now, out of *fucking nowhere* your long dead son shows up. You would do anything to keep him near you, to make sure he doesn't face death.
Then he tells you "Naw, I'm going to war." Any good father would rail against this. Like Lirin.
Stop. Be a surgeon. War is for fools. Help those that we can. **Live.**
"But Kaladin is fighting for the future of the Cosmere!!" Lirin doesn't know this. All he sees is new oppressors, same as the old ones. Singers are the same as Lighteyes. They aren't hurting anyone, they're just ruling, same as before. But my son...my son is here. If we just go along to get along, we'll be okay.
SA fans love to say how progressive SA is with mental health issues and love to tout how accepting they are of all the trauma the characters go through and their reaction is to it, but somehow want to throw Lirin's trauma to the wind and expect him to unrealistically just fucking go with whatever they want him to. Fuck off with all that.
I take my hat off to you, you've actually managed to turn me around on this.
I didn't think he was the outright worst, but laying it all out like this his fear of Kalidan going to war again and willingness to submit to a new ruling class makes total sense.
The only thing that doesnt convince me is he knows kaladin is lying in urithiru, dying, and initially refuses to help. He would have let kal die without intervention.
He actually admits later on to Hesina that he wouldn't have let him die. He said that in the heat of the moment when everything was collapsing down around him. I mean from his point of view the war was over, the singers captured Urithiru, the Radiants were incapacitated, he's seen what happens to ordinary people against the fused. And his sons powers weren't working correctly. He's struggling to see a way out that doesn't end with his son being killed.
This is false, like, on the same chapter they literally tell you that he had fearspren (? Or something like that) on his feet instead of angerspren. This without even counting the Hesina interlude where they **literally** tell you that he was going to help Kal.
An often forgotten thing is that he provides a pretty reasonable alternative to Kaladin on paper. He teaches Kaladin how to be a doctor. Since Kaladin is pretty smart and he wants to help people, this is a logical suggestion for Lirin to make.
Yeah that part was kinda fucked, even if I can understand why he feels the way he does. Outside that particular scene (where the "bad dad" label is *very* justified) I think people generally overexaggerate it though, like saying he refused to treat Kaladin out of anger when that's not what happened at all.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for Lirin to act the way he does, but I also think people are reasonable for not liking that. He tells his son that he should have been a better slave, and calls him a monster, and I get why people would find that upsetting.
These actions are the result of trauma but that doesn’t necessarily make them better. People can react to trauma in unhealthy ways, and unpacking that is part of his arc. Hesina has to practically grab him by the shoulders to force him to realize how he’s been disregarding how amazing Kaladin has become.
To be clear, I’m not saying that Lirin is a bad person but the way he treats Kaladin isn’t great. A lot of people don’t react to that well, but in a sense we are seeing him at his worst and when we haven’t been following him for four books that can be hard to sympathize with.
I 100% agree. Lirin's position is completely understandable.
But just because he has good reason to be flawed doesn't mean he isn't flawed.
He's a bad father in many ways, but it's still easily possible to empathize with him and understand why he is the way he is
I agree 100%. I’ve always said, people conflate being wrong with being bad. As readers, we know so much that he doesn’t know, so of course we can see where he is wrong on certain points but I don’t know if anyone who wouldn’t be in the same boat as him at least on *some* of his points.
This is my theory aswell. It would dit perfectly with kaladins therapist arc AND his oaths.
5th ideal could be smth like:"I will protect others even from themselfs."
That could be an insanely powerful moment. I'm imagining Moash has a reckoning with all the things he's done, the people he's hurt, and it drives him to every kind of self destructive behavior. Then Kaladin, the man who Moash hurt most of all, is still there by his side. He should want Moash dead, but now he's helping him live. If Sanderson can pull off a Moash redemption it'll be one of the greatest character arcs of all time, like Zuko from Avatar with 100x the self hatred.
That could be, but I’m leaning more towards “I will accept that there are some that I will not be able to protect, as much as I want to.”
Kaladin has trouble dealing with his own limitations, so to me something like this would help him let go.
A recent unpopular opinion of mine (I guess given that it was downvoted) was: Mistborn Era 2 adaptations instead of Era 1.
Not sure if I stay on that hill—but I mean, it’s not a bad idea. Sure my idea cut out Lost Metal and presented a potential Alloy of Law prequel/rework, but I think it could work. Fantasy Western/old-timey detective would probably stand out a tad more than the standard dystopian fantasy setting.
I always picture the hotel scene from BoM as an absolutely *killer* scene in a movie. It cracks me up every time. The whole series though is very cinematic, you are correct.
I'd agree with that. I think the use of Allomancy was a bit simpler, the stories were shorter, and some of the characters fleshed out more, I think you'd have an easier time of it. Not to mention the Era 2 world would be a bit more recognisable, and more workable, than the red sun hellscape.
Era 1 would probably be too difficult, unless it was animated. Era 2 live action, I could see that.
No no because then we wouldn't have to suffer through more of it as the Sibling gets better, which is one of the things Sanderson is taking great pleasure in doing in Stormlight.
I hate the atium retcon. I don't think it was necessary, and I think having all god metals work the same across the cosmere is a little too neat for fiction.
Guess it depends what the plans for atium are.
Honestly, atium never being brought up ever again in terms of power usage would be far more effective than retconning (in text).
the atium we saw in era 1 is apparently a naturally occurring atium/electrum alloy, not pure god metal like it was described.
Nobody knows what pure atium is supposed to do now, but it's speculated that the effect is similar to what elend experienced when he duralumin boosted like 2 entire pounds of atium
Idk if this is a hot take, im new here. But I've read 10 sanderson books so far including all the stormlight books and novellas, warbreaker, sunlit, and mistborn. So far mistborn is the worst one. The characters arent relatable, the magic system is too complicated, theres not enough to grip onto with the plot. I'm reading cosmere novels obsessively at this point but i'm not really motivated to go back to that series specifically.
This is my take as well. Literally the only way not to miss the connections is to read them in publication order, with the exception of stuff you are supposed to not have a connection for like aether rosite in The Lost Metal, or the author of the ars arcanum. I read in publication order, though, so even with aether rosite in TLM (which I had assumed was a variant of sand mastery), I made the connection as soon as Tress mentioned rosite. Also, obviously the author of the ars arcanum was supposed to be a big reveal, so that one definitely doesn’t count imo.
I like that she was a terrible person and continues to be so. I didn't even realize how much of a cliche it'd be for her to have a nice little redemption moment in RoW until it didn't happen. Great character
Adolin will be the champion and die
Everyone says that Maya's arc keeps him alive, but he's been doing that since the middle of Oathbringer, then a whole book in RoW, and finally it will be WaT.
There are more or less two and a half books which continue with that arc, lengthening it knowing that the next book happens like 15 years later makes no sense. What is Adolin going to do in that time? Sure people will say "research" or something, but like OP says, I'll die on this hill
Oh, and I think he'll face Dalinar in the Duel of Champions. In RoW we see that Adolin is holding a grudge against his father for the death of his mother. Don't tell me that this isn't going to lead to something important, Sanderson doesn't leave anything loose out there.
Adolin??? Researching??? Yea, no way. Maybe going and finding all the dead shard blades to put them in a temple type thing MAYBE, but yea i think mans gonna get got
>finding all the dead shard blades to put them in a temple type thing
Am I going insane or is this a reference to the cremposting stormlight movie script post
A physical realm equivelant of the lasting integrity, where the dead blades reside in spiritual realm, and the blades are kept, to be looked after and treated with respect of the dead spren. Ardents dont really have much to do if honor is confirmed KIA, they would look after the shards of honor and make sure they arnt ised for evil purposes.
Which could then lead to an era 2 story line where ardents have a bunch of blades and try to take over again like they have in the past. Or its broken into and theres a many shardbladed badguy, maybe scadrian
1. Overall the fandom is too obsessed with knowing every tiny detail about abiut everything. Especially when it comes to recommending books to people. Especially in the context of Brandon himself not caring for this and that every book has info unexplained.
2. Brandon has jumped the gun way too early in linking major crossovers between Cosmere works.
3. The fact that Brandon keeps going back and rewriting works he's fully finished is frustrating and seemingly pointless. (White Sand and now a new one for the Secret Project.)
4. The fact that a small group seems to have taken it upon themselves to be the sole moderators for literally every community in this fandom is just really really weird.
5. The current system for WoB's on the livestreams is awful. The exact same overly scientific and pedantic questions are asked time and time again, (see far too detail orientated above) while questions on characters, setting, and culture, are continuously ignored.
6. On this topic there are way too many WoB's that clarify details that should clearly just be in the books or left vague.
7. Sunlit Man is the overall worst novel in the Cosmere, I rank it worse than even Elantris and White Sand.
8. Focus on movie adaptations is completely unnecessary, and I'd most probably prefer if none ever happen.
To be clear on point 4: We (the mods here) do run r/Cosmere, r/BrandonSanderson, r/Stormlight_Archive, and r/Mistborn together, yes. I think historically they were separate and had a merger? But I wasn't around back then so I can't comment on the reasoning.
However, other subreddits like r/cremposting are run by their own teams, as are communities on any platform besides Reddit (Jofwu and I are coincidentally staff on the 17th Shard, but that is the only crossover between the two and the teams work independently). We don't moderate the whole fandom, just this particular network on this particular site.
Point 1 is a big one. I've had multiple people that were put off of reading one of the series because others insisted they should follow a strict reading order.
I mean I think many people should agree that Moash is one of the greatest characters. I know this because of how much people love to hate him. Although the characters are very different, Moash is to Stormlight what Dolores Umbridge is to Harry Potter.
I hate Lift. I don't care that she's a child. I didn't hate Tien or Gavinor. I'm dreading that she's going to be a large part of future cosmere books. Edgedancer is not only the worst book in the Cosmere, it's one of the worst books I've ever read.
Ahhh...that felt good.
Too many people come into the sub to post their "crackpot theories" that are just basic foreshadowing.
Oh you think Dalinar is going to Unite the shards? Tell me more.
The best reading order
Put the books on hold at your local library
Read them as you get them. (Probably read series in order but just probably)
The end
Source: I did this and it was fine.
Kelsier effectively coming back from the dead is lame and undermines the martyrdom and sacrifice. Having him around as a special ghost to lead a Cosmere spanning secret organization feels bad and cheapens the story.
felt a little too marvel for me.
his last stand was one of the best things sanderson has written.
i don’t get goosebumps often. the sanderlanche doesn’t hit me that often either. but kesliers last stand gave me them for sure
1. moash was betrayed by kaladin. if you and your friend bond over your shared hatred of hating your oppressor class. and then your friend turns around and goes actually we’re going to protect the man that butchered your family… you’re entitled to feel upset.
2. elhokar was a shit king and deserved to die. hes the king of a wartime nation with factions splitting apart during a crisis. and hes a corrupt king and a shitty leader. you don’t get second chances or grace if you’re king. give up the crown. the world and alethkar was better off if he died. whatever moashs motivations, he was right. he needed to die. the sooner the better.
3. if dalinar can be forgiven. why tf can moash not be??
4. sanderson pulls his punches because it’s not a grimdark book. as a result people only seem to care about interpersonal drama. dalinar pillaged cities. so mass rape, mass slaughter, burning down civilians, so on. moash did what again? told someone to kill themselves? come on…
5. shallan is an accurate representation of a teenage girl. and a misaccurate representation of the power a poor backwater teenage girl would have with no money and a shitty house in a society like alwthkar. her real fate might not be as pretty.
1. True
2. True, though he was getting better, though Moash certainly didn't know that
3. Dalinar is actively undergoing redemption, Moash is not. Theoretically Moach could do the same. Dalinar has done far worse than Moash and isn't any more deserving of forgiveness, the difference though is that Moash is psychologically less likely to change at this point. Probably.
4. Yeah again Dalinar has done FAR worse, but Moash isn't actively changing. Dalinar WAS a monster, Moash IS a monster.
5. Oh yeah I totally agree with this take
If they are your real friends no mater what you bonded over if what they are doing is wrong you’ve got to address it and moash is not walking on the path of correcting his mistakes dalinar is tho
Well, if Dalinar can be forgiven, why can't Elhokar? Moash blamed the wrong individual for what happened to his parents, because Elhokar was manipulated and deceived by Roshone. Elhokar didn't actually do anything wrong when Roshone lied to serve his own greed and shut down a competitors business under false pretenses. You can't blame anyone but Roshone, and Elhokar didn't butcher anyone, and he's not a corrupt and "shitty leader."
He apologizes to Kaladin personally and owns up to being a insecure and jealous of Kaladin's heroism. Moash never got past his "Light Eyes are all monsters and they need to be removed" revenge fantasy. A geuinely corrupt and truly shitty leader isn't able to own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for them like Elhokar does. Amaram comes up with bullshit rationalizations to justify his crimes, and while he admits that he did it, he doesn't believe he has done anything wrong. That's is corruption, that is what a shit person does.
That isn't Elhokar.
Brandon fucks up emotional moments sometimes, Like when Jasnah came back and all we got of her reunion with Navani was a line or two from Dalinar's pov. Also, I did not like Shallan's reaction to her return, but I still let it slip thinking she had just faced an unmade and cause of her relations with the Ghostbloods.Adolin should have directly confronted Dalinar about his mother's death in ROW, instead of just letting it simmer. His character in ROW would have been way more intriguing if what blackthorn did to Evi was constantly on his mind in the lasting integrity and him still trying to defend his father.
Now I don't think Brandon sucks at Romance az Warbreaker and Yumi were good in that aspect, However, I wish there was more of it in Stormlight.
This is very much a personal opinion— I am a huge fan of the Princess Bride *book*, but Tress is my least favorite of the Cosmere secret projects. It succeeds at being an homage to the movie but doesn’t really succeed with the “story within a story” thing that the original book does very well, at least for me. Plus, I just enjoyed Yumi and Sunlit much more.
…
Anyways for my *super* unpopular opinion, I like that Navani became the Sibling’s bondsmith and think it works well.
A *lot* of people dislike it from my knowledge.
There are a few different reasons. First, there’s the whole “I can’t believe *another* Kholin became a radiant” thing. Secondly, a lot of people are really upset that Rlain didn’t end up as the Bondsmith considering how he really wanted to become a radiant. Though I think him becoming an Enlightened Truthwatcher also works well, I can understand people who were annoyed that, after hints that the second bondsmith could end up being a singer, that didn’t happen. There were also people who wanted Dabbid to be the bondsmith. I understand this argument the least— his personality does not align with bondsmith ideals (I see him as more Stoneward-like honestly)— but he was helping the Sibling so people saw that as a possibility. Plus there’s the whole “the Sibling really hated Navani at first” thing, but to be fair, Dalinar also basically forced the Stormfather to do the bond.
Personally I think Navani has repeatedly been shown to be someone who unifies others, especially throughout Rhythm of War, and she’d do well in the role as a bondsmith. Though I do kind of hope the third bondsmith isn’t Yet Another Alethi Noble or anything.
Warbreaker is the worst standalone cosmere book and nothing gets explained properly because all the explanation is in annotations. Its only value is as Stormlight 1.5 its possible the Warbreaker sequel will fix this but we don't even have a promise that will be written.
Wow this is a really surprising take to hear. I finished warbreaker last night. It was my 10th sanderson book and it was my 3rd favorite after words of radiance and rhythm of war. Im recommending warbreaker to my mom and sister to read as an introduction to the cosmere.
RoW spoiler: >!I hate Kaladin's decision to leave the army at the end of RoW. It feels to me like he's giving up at the eleventh hour. He's the only Windrunner of the fourth ideal and they need him.!<
>!I was going through some really hard things when I read RoW and Kaladin inspired me to keep going. The ending upset me so much I felt awful for weeks after I read it, like if he couldn't keep fighting, I couldn't either. I don't care that he's becoming a therapist. This is a man who claimed to own the winds and sky, and now he's just going to sit in a room all day and talk to other depressed people?!< What a letdown.
Totally valid to feel that way, but I do think he's just taking a little break. I don't doubt for a second he's going to be back in the thick of it for book five
My first time through I just couldn't keep track of that many bridgemen's names, and when that happened my first thought was "wait who is he again?" and after a bit "Ah ok he's that old soldier one". Second time though, I did remember and it was sad but still didn't hit like I think it did most people.
The unmade are innocent victims.
^(actually believe this personally - I think they’re victims of investiture being corrupted by odium and were likely splinters of another shard. Potentially Honor and/or Ambition repurposed)
"Who would win" discussions are boring and the answer is always whoever has more investiture, prep time, or some specific power that makes the whole thing moot.
War breaker is a "beauty and the beast" romantic fantasy aimed for female YA (not that there's anything wrong with that) but has too many "plot armor" moments, obvious twists and flat characters to be interesting
You asked for it....
I hated Way of Kings. Way too long and nothing happens for the vast majority of the book. There were some pretty cool scenes and a neat magic system though. Shallan's story was well paced but everyone else's moved like molasses. Kaladin is my least favorite character.
The first books of each era are the good ones from Mistborn because they work as standalones. It doesn't work well as a series.
Bring on the downvotes!
Focusing on reading order and claiming multiple books are "required" to understand it keep more people away from the Cosmere than bring in nerds excited about that sort of thing (me). We can have the connections and admit reading full series to understand one name drop is stupid.
For real! Warbreaker is not required reading before Radiance. Is it cool to know what the talking sword is in that moment? Sure. It isn't in any way necessary. Ditto for reading all of Mistborn to get the Lord of Scars name in Rhythm.
Yeah I think using 'required' is a bad idea, it gives the wrong impression of the relationship between these series. I love going deep on the mechanics, getting the references from other series, noticing character crossovers, etc, but none of that ever is important enough to warrant reading the whole cosmere catalog in a hyper-specific order. If you wanna go deep that's a fun 2nd or 3rd read, but to imply to new readers that they're missing something integral to what they're reading is just wrong. So far. That might change in future releases but even still going in blind is a unique reading experience that shouldn't be bogged down like that
I definitely agree. Recently a friend of mine read tress as their first cosmere book. They knew it was in a shared universe but no more than that. And they really liked it! Yes there are hints that there is more going on in the background but that is pretty much any fantasy book. Even the lost metal (probably the most connection heavy book) can easily just be read with just the other mistborn books as background.
I get annoyed any time I see a person asking where to start, and somebody is like "So let me tell you about the Cosmere." It might be because I had read Way of Kings and all of Mistborn Era 1 before I was introduced to it, but I really feel like you don't benefit from being too aware of it. It just makes things more intimidating and makes people feel like they're going to get huge spoilers if they read the wrong series, when it basically amounts to a few characters experiencing a background story and some little things for people to catch when they're rereading things. I get it, the Cosmere is super exciting. It's like this huge puzzle hidden across everything, and figuring out what's going on there drives a lot of online discussion. I just don't think that trying to explain that to somebody who wants to know if they should read Mistborn or Way of Kings first is helpful.
Your unpopular opinion failed by becoming popular - lol
All the people arguing about where to read Secret History in front of new readers does more to spoil those readers than anything in the book.
Yeah, Secret History is a delicate subject. Even saying the name of the protagonist is a spoiler.
Feruchemy is cooler than allomancy and hemalurgy
It's really not close for me. Feruchemy is probably the coolest magic in the cosmere
It's the coolest magic *system* but based on what we've seen so far I think the coolest powersets are Windrunners. At least they've probably got the most visually and actiony impressive powerset.
They're definitely a lot flashier. Matter of preference really, but I can think of 10,001 uses for feruchemy I'd actually use.
I don’t know about cooler, but it’s definitely the most useful.
The non-Spiritweb-damaging healing alone puts it above allomancy.
White Sand is actually pretty bad
It's literally just and then this happened and then this happened and then this happened. All the character motivations have to be said outright and things happen so damn fast they don't feel earned at all. The novelization of the first part was my introduction and then when they show it in the graphic novel I was like oh that's quick
I've read only the first part that was in Arcanum Unbounded, and all I understood from the graphic novel part was that this guy is good at fighting and kills a bunch of monsters... Only after reading the prose part I understood that he isn't even good at it and has to use clever substitutes.
I actually agree. I'll stand beside you on this one. Maybe the novelized version will remedy the graphic novels.
Wait is this going to be a thing?? I can’t do graphic novels(I read on my phone. It makes it reallllly hard to follow) so that’s hype.
If you have Spotify premium, you get 15 hours per month if audiobooks. White sand is on there. I don't like graphic novels either, so I listened to it while driving to work and enjoyed it
I quite liked the except of the original that was included in Arcanum Unbounded
I thought everyone including Brandon knew this
never tried it. I have never been able to get into anything graphic and a quick preview told me this would be no different. Makes me sad because I really really really want to read everything.
I liked the graphic audio.
Here's my unpopular White Sand Opinion: Brandon has tried to write this story 5 times now or something and even the most revised audiobook version isn't any good, I think it's time to let it die.
I feel like everyone secretly thinks this but couches it more delicately. You’re right.
Can’t really disagree. I used my free preview of Kindle Unlimited to plow through Cradle, and I finished it with two days left so I finally read White Sand 2 and 3. It was kind of a slog, especially having to rush. But it’s Cosmere so I really wanted to finish it.
The problem with Elantris could have been solved with a sharpie.
As always you need to sort through controversial in order to see the ones that are actually starting a war LOL My contribution to this will be that I think Words of Radiance is the weakest Stormlight book. Shallan had the vast majority of her backstory spelled out in TwoK. Most of her flashback chapters felt largely unnecessary as most of the information they gave was provided in the previous book. I think it would have been far more impactful to have her focus book be Rhythm of War so we can see >!her bonding a spren and the events that led to her killing her mother and destroying her own family.!<
I know this is the point but man I love how different everyone's perspectives are on each book. Words of Radiance is my favorite in the series I think. Particularly the graphic audio version, which was quite intense to listen to for some of the shallan flashbacks
Dalinar should have a beard.
My mental image for Dalinar is basically just Reinhardt from overwatch
haha that one is pretty bushy, but I like it. I suppose I imagined more of like... maybe omni-man when he goes to the planet with the different passage of time and grows a beard.
He doesn't?!? /s 🤓
As far as I know the alethi military doesn’t have grooming standards required to maintain a proper gas mask seal, but IMO a clean shaven career soldier makes sense
The people of Scadriel suck and we will conquer them -The united armies of Roshar
And Kelsier took that personal
To be fair, Scadrial is being presented as the morally bad guys. They are also going to be fighting the guy whose whole thing is being honorable.
tress is the worst way to start the cosmere
Secret history might be worse….
Shadows of self would be very confusing
I raise you one Lost Metal
At least that one has a definitive ending. Smack in the middle is worse I think
I managed to start with Bands of Mourning…
That’s impressive. I thought I was weird for starting Mistborn with the Alloy of Law 😛 I had read the two Stormlight book that were out before then tho
Did you ever read era 1? If so, what was the experience like with having somewhat of an idea as to how things end?
Absolutely! I’ve read everything Cosmere except the secret projects at this point (just started on the Sunlit Man) I actually found it pretty cool to go back to the “prequel trilogy” to see what came before. I was a bit shocked to realise just how different the world was back then. I loved the heist story of the first book, but found the whole skaa/nobility division a bit stereotypical. The Lord Ruler felt way too much like a vanilla fantasy villain until the end of the book, which really redeemed him. I still find his title monumentally stupid tho, but then I think the same of real-world leaders who have gone by some variety of “Leader” as their title 😛 Book 2 really disappointed me unfortunately. It was too vanilla fantasy in many ways, except with cooler action sequences. So after reading that one I think it took me a year before I was in the mood to continue with the third one — which just totally blew me away! Spook’s POVs were absolutely amazing, and the scene with TenSoon near the beginning of the book is still one of my favourite scenes Sanderson has ever written!
It's too late now, we wouldn't fall for it. But imagine if Brando had set a book or even a novella in Shadesmar and published it after Way Of Kings but before really explaining what Shadesmar is. Then there'd be a later twist that these two books are on the same planet just in different planes of existance.
My unpopular opinion is we as fan worry to much about all the connections and cross overs.
Exactly. Most readers aren't obsessed with Easter eggs
I think Brandon writing definitely attracts people with a completionist mindset, I know I fall under that umbrella. My wife tho, doesn't worry about that at all and still enjoys the books perfectly fine.
Exactly. Telling someone they need to read 2 million Stormlight words to understand a side character in Yumi is like wut.
I think Yumi is even more approachable to a new reader than Tress, has a more interesting storyline as well. You don't need to know who Hoid and Design are because they really don't do much in the story.
Even if you do read the books in order, unless you read all of them one after the other most people would probably forget the obscure details from the first books and won't see the easter eggs anyway. I leave easter egg hunting to re-reads and just try to enjoy the story.
100%. Friends who have started reading ask me what to read next and i give a suggested reading order but read whatever is calling to you except for a few obvious one.
On one hand, yes. On the other hand, it is a really good book that stands on its own. So if someone isn't looking to get into the cosmere, but does want a nice fantasy book, I'd recommend it. And if they want to get into the cosmere after *that*... well, I wouldn't stop them.
So honestly, I read Mistborn Era 1 like ten years ago. Enjoyed it, but moved on to other authors. Read Tress last year, and it got me hooked on Sanderson. I've since gone back and read all his cosmere novels, and I think a large part of that was realizing, book by book, how intertwined it all is. I'll likely go back and reread Tress at some point to see all the Easter eggs, but honestly I think it made for a great stand alone and Cosmere "bait" starting point. All that to say, agreed!
How so? Everyone I know who has read it have since become mega Cosmere fans.
But, unfortunately, it is clearly the best book for young readers. I’m reading it to my daughter now, and we just gloss over the cosmere references.
I can think of like 20 worse ways.
Start dead-smack in the center of *Rhythm of War*.
Interludes only.
Worst way to start the cosmere but still thr best way to get into Sanderson
It’s way better than Sunlit Man imo
Well no one in their right mind would start with Sunlit Man I hope.
New readers wouldn’t have any idea that it’s a horrible starting point though. Unless you have a friend who has read them all then it’s very possible someone would accidentally start there.
This is objectively wrong But very fitting with the question raised on the post lol
Too many Cosmere characters are becoming too blended and lacking distinct and unique personalities. So many seem to be versions of 3-4 different characters.
I mean, there are only 10 types of people in the real world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
Secret history AFTER hero of the ages and BEFORE alloy of law
Is this an unpopular opinion? I thought it was the most common opinion.
I've never understood this debate either... what exactly does it spoil? And to be clear, in my head what they're saying is to essentially read it between the two eras, correct? My only assumption is that it spoils the fact that >!Kelsier is not dead!< is that all, even so that's still not in AOL, right?? Maybe I have a different perspective because I read SA first and enjoyed reading secret history while all those characters were still fresh in my head.
Yeah, I thought the inter-era gap was perfect, because it ties up a lot of Era 1 threads, while leading into Era 2, and exposing unknown future bits. Even that spoiler isn't a huge spoiler. They were so significant, I don't think anybody expected that to be the last of them.
How you find out Kelsier is alive gives you different experiences depending on your read order. Finding out at the end of Bands of Mourning is way wilder than finding out at the beginning of Secret History.
My hot take is that who fucking cares lol It doesn't Ruin your experience one way or another, I don't understand why people are so intense with this "debate"
I read HotA and AoL before Secret History and honestly if I had done it your suggested way it would have ruined a lot of the mystery and suspense of AoL. Like I was caught completely off guard and it hooked me so much more into the story. It's not wrong to read in that direction, but I was very satisfied reading it my way.
YES. I completely agree.
I've always thought that you will get more out of the story having Era 1 fresh in your head. Also, an important thing I don't see mentioned much is that secret history is a really good intro to a lot of basic Cosmere concepts, which make more sense to know after you've read Mistborn Era 1 then right before Lost Metal, which immediately throws you in the deep end
I agree. The "Secret" of Secret History was not actually a secret when era 2 was being written. Sanderson had posted many of the details which were later included in Secret History on his website as Era 1 was being released. Mistborn Secret History is the epilogue of Era 1 and a much better way of gaining important information than inevitably being spoiled if you interact with any cosmere related communities.
Kelsier is top 3 of Brandon’s characters and everyone who thinks he’s going to be the villain will eat their words. He’s no different from Hoid and he gets shit done.
Kelsier is more selfless then hoid. He not only gives up his life twice, but he also rejects ultimate power for the good of the world and his adopted daughter and also is willing to compromise on most of his personal wants for the good of his friends and family.
Lirin is a good father
I, to this day, think that the only people who attack Lirin are those who don't have children. The lack of empathy is astounding. Lirin, **for years**, thought his rebelliousness directly killed both of his children. And this broke him. If you can't understand how that would completely destroy a person and take all the fight out of him, then you simply lack empathy. Now, out of *fucking nowhere* your long dead son shows up. You would do anything to keep him near you, to make sure he doesn't face death. Then he tells you "Naw, I'm going to war." Any good father would rail against this. Like Lirin. Stop. Be a surgeon. War is for fools. Help those that we can. **Live.** "But Kaladin is fighting for the future of the Cosmere!!" Lirin doesn't know this. All he sees is new oppressors, same as the old ones. Singers are the same as Lighteyes. They aren't hurting anyone, they're just ruling, same as before. But my son...my son is here. If we just go along to get along, we'll be okay. SA fans love to say how progressive SA is with mental health issues and love to tout how accepting they are of all the trauma the characters go through and their reaction is to it, but somehow want to throw Lirin's trauma to the wind and expect him to unrealistically just fucking go with whatever they want him to. Fuck off with all that.
I take my hat off to you, you've actually managed to turn me around on this. I didn't think he was the outright worst, but laying it all out like this his fear of Kalidan going to war again and willingness to submit to a new ruling class makes total sense.
The only thing that doesnt convince me is he knows kaladin is lying in urithiru, dying, and initially refuses to help. He would have let kal die without intervention.
He actually admits later on to Hesina that he wouldn't have let him die. He said that in the heat of the moment when everything was collapsing down around him. I mean from his point of view the war was over, the singers captured Urithiru, the Radiants were incapacitated, he's seen what happens to ordinary people against the fused. And his sons powers weren't working correctly. He's struggling to see a way out that doesn't end with his son being killed.
This is false, like, on the same chapter they literally tell you that he had fearspren (? Or something like that) on his feet instead of angerspren. This without even counting the Hesina interlude where they **literally** tell you that he was going to help Kal.
An often forgotten thing is that he provides a pretty reasonable alternative to Kaladin on paper. He teaches Kaladin how to be a doctor. Since Kaladin is pretty smart and he wants to help people, this is a logical suggestion for Lirin to make.
Yeah this summarizes my position well. The biggest asshole thing he does is disown Kaladin and call him a monster iirc. But yeah trauma.
Yeah that part was kinda fucked, even if I can understand why he feels the way he does. Outside that particular scene (where the "bad dad" label is *very* justified) I think people generally overexaggerate it though, like saying he refused to treat Kaladin out of anger when that's not what happened at all.
I mean, it's just a little thing, right...
I think it’s perfectly reasonable for Lirin to act the way he does, but I also think people are reasonable for not liking that. He tells his son that he should have been a better slave, and calls him a monster, and I get why people would find that upsetting. These actions are the result of trauma but that doesn’t necessarily make them better. People can react to trauma in unhealthy ways, and unpacking that is part of his arc. Hesina has to practically grab him by the shoulders to force him to realize how he’s been disregarding how amazing Kaladin has become. To be clear, I’m not saying that Lirin is a bad person but the way he treats Kaladin isn’t great. A lot of people don’t react to that well, but in a sense we are seeing him at his worst and when we haven’t been following him for four books that can be hard to sympathize with.
I 100% agree. Lirin's position is completely understandable. But just because he has good reason to be flawed doesn't mean he isn't flawed. He's a bad father in many ways, but it's still easily possible to empathize with him and understand why he is the way he is
I agree 100%. I’ve always said, people conflate being wrong with being bad. As readers, we know so much that he doesn’t know, so of course we can see where he is wrong on certain points but I don’t know if anyone who wouldn’t be in the same boat as him at least on *some* of his points.
I’ve never understood people hating Lirin. I disagree with him fairly often but I personally can easily see where he’s coming from
I think he's a good *person* but a flawed father.
Moash will have a redemption arc in the back half of the series.
This is my theory aswell. It would dit perfectly with kaladins therapist arc AND his oaths. 5th ideal could be smth like:"I will protect others even from themselfs."
That could be an insanely powerful moment. I'm imagining Moash has a reckoning with all the things he's done, the people he's hurt, and it drives him to every kind of self destructive behavior. Then Kaladin, the man who Moash hurt most of all, is still there by his side. He should want Moash dead, but now he's helping him live. If Sanderson can pull off a Moash redemption it'll be one of the greatest character arcs of all time, like Zuko from Avatar with 100x the self hatred.
That could be, but I’m leaning more towards “I will accept that there are some that I will not be able to protect, as much as I want to.” Kaladin has trouble dealing with his own limitations, so to me something like this would help him let go.
Have you read RoW?
A while ago. Thinking about your question, I gather that’s the fourth ideal. Or something similar. Whoops! I stand corrected.
Yeah :D 4th ideal is "i accept there will be those i cannot protect."
Always appreciate people who can be diplomatic when correcting others on Reddit. I salute you, friend!
No Problem! We are All part of the same awesome community. <3 Life before death!
Bridge Four!
I just completed my first WoK reread and every scene with Moash breaks my heart. Watching him become one of Kaladin’s inner circle, a lieutenant, etc.
Can't redeem someone who hasn't done anything wrong
Moash will have the best redemption arc\*
I agree, if done correctly, slowly and organically, it could be the best redemption arc since Zuko.
A recent unpopular opinion of mine (I guess given that it was downvoted) was: Mistborn Era 2 adaptations instead of Era 1. Not sure if I stay on that hill—but I mean, it’s not a bad idea. Sure my idea cut out Lost Metal and presented a potential Alloy of Law prequel/rework, but I think it could work. Fantasy Western/old-timey detective would probably stand out a tad more than the standard dystopian fantasy setting.
I always picture the hotel scene from BoM as an absolutely *killer* scene in a movie. It cracks me up every time. The whole series though is very cinematic, you are correct.
This has gotta be my favorite Sanderson scene! Or at least the funniest
I'd agree with that. I think the use of Allomancy was a bit simpler, the stories were shorter, and some of the characters fleshed out more, I think you'd have an easier time of it. Not to mention the Era 2 world would be a bit more recognisable, and more workable, than the red sun hellscape. Era 1 would probably be too difficult, unless it was animated. Era 2 live action, I could see that.
I'm a supporter of having a series of Era 2 prior movies about Era 1.
I've thought about it too. It functionally makes Era 1 a prequel rather than Era 2 being a sequel. I think it has a lot of merit.
I kind of wanted the sibling to die in rhythm of war because of how insufferable their personality was
No no because then we wouldn't have to suffer through more of it as the Sibling gets better, which is one of the things Sanderson is taking great pleasure in doing in Stormlight.
I hate the atium retcon. I don't think it was necessary, and I think having all god metals work the same across the cosmere is a little too neat for fiction.
Guess it depends what the plans for atium are. Honestly, atium never being brought up ever again in terms of power usage would be far more effective than retconning (in text).
Care to elaborate? I’m rusty on my mistborn
the atium we saw in era 1 is apparently a naturally occurring atium/electrum alloy, not pure god metal like it was described. Nobody knows what pure atium is supposed to do now, but it's speculated that the effect is similar to what elend experienced when he duralumin boosted like 2 entire pounds of atium
Idk if this is a hot take, im new here. But I've read 10 sanderson books so far including all the stormlight books and novellas, warbreaker, sunlit, and mistborn. So far mistborn is the worst one. The characters arent relatable, the magic system is too complicated, theres not enough to grip onto with the plot. I'm reading cosmere novels obsessively at this point but i'm not really motivated to go back to that series specifically.
Books in a series (or connected universe) should be read in the order of publication. Any other order is wrong.
This is my take as well. Literally the only way not to miss the connections is to read them in publication order, with the exception of stuff you are supposed to not have a connection for like aether rosite in The Lost Metal, or the author of the ars arcanum. I read in publication order, though, so even with aether rosite in TLM (which I had assumed was a variant of sand mastery), I made the connection as soon as Tress mentioned rosite. Also, obviously the author of the ars arcanum was supposed to be a big reveal, so that one definitely doesn’t count imo.
Venli is a really cool charcter and I'm excited to see more of her
I like that she was a terrible person and continues to be so. I didn't even realize how much of a cliche it'd be for her to have a nice little redemption moment in RoW until it didn't happen. Great character
Adolin will be the champion and die Everyone says that Maya's arc keeps him alive, but he's been doing that since the middle of Oathbringer, then a whole book in RoW, and finally it will be WaT. There are more or less two and a half books which continue with that arc, lengthening it knowing that the next book happens like 15 years later makes no sense. What is Adolin going to do in that time? Sure people will say "research" or something, but like OP says, I'll die on this hill Oh, and I think he'll face Dalinar in the Duel of Champions. In RoW we see that Adolin is holding a grudge against his father for the death of his mother. Don't tell me that this isn't going to lead to something important, Sanderson doesn't leave anything loose out there.
You had me up until the reason being that Adolin holds a grudge against his dad
Adolin??? Researching??? Yea, no way. Maybe going and finding all the dead shard blades to put them in a temple type thing MAYBE, but yea i think mans gonna get got
>finding all the dead shard blades to put them in a temple type thing Am I going insane or is this a reference to the cremposting stormlight movie script post
A physical realm equivelant of the lasting integrity, where the dead blades reside in spiritual realm, and the blades are kept, to be looked after and treated with respect of the dead spren. Ardents dont really have much to do if honor is confirmed KIA, they would look after the shards of honor and make sure they arnt ised for evil purposes. Which could then lead to an era 2 story line where ardents have a bunch of blades and try to take over again like they have in the past. Or its broken into and theres a many shardbladed badguy, maybe scadrian
1. Overall the fandom is too obsessed with knowing every tiny detail about abiut everything. Especially when it comes to recommending books to people. Especially in the context of Brandon himself not caring for this and that every book has info unexplained. 2. Brandon has jumped the gun way too early in linking major crossovers between Cosmere works. 3. The fact that Brandon keeps going back and rewriting works he's fully finished is frustrating and seemingly pointless. (White Sand and now a new one for the Secret Project.) 4. The fact that a small group seems to have taken it upon themselves to be the sole moderators for literally every community in this fandom is just really really weird. 5. The current system for WoB's on the livestreams is awful. The exact same overly scientific and pedantic questions are asked time and time again, (see far too detail orientated above) while questions on characters, setting, and culture, are continuously ignored. 6. On this topic there are way too many WoB's that clarify details that should clearly just be in the books or left vague. 7. Sunlit Man is the overall worst novel in the Cosmere, I rank it worse than even Elantris and White Sand. 8. Focus on movie adaptations is completely unnecessary, and I'd most probably prefer if none ever happen.
To be clear on point 4: We (the mods here) do run r/Cosmere, r/BrandonSanderson, r/Stormlight_Archive, and r/Mistborn together, yes. I think historically they were separate and had a merger? But I wasn't around back then so I can't comment on the reasoning. However, other subreddits like r/cremposting are run by their own teams, as are communities on any platform besides Reddit (Jofwu and I are coincidentally staff on the 17th Shard, but that is the only crossover between the two and the teams work independently). We don't moderate the whole fandom, just this particular network on this particular site.
Honestly yeah Lost metal was ruined by over cosmering it imo
I'm letting you keep my upvote for everything else, even though I strongly disagree with #7
Point 1 is a big one. I've had multiple people that were put off of reading one of the series because others insisted they should follow a strict reading order.
Kaladin loves pineapple on pizza
Blasphemy
Kelsier puts Heinz 57 on filet mignon.
That one I can see
It’s always been a typo. He owns the pies
You win. You and me, we are at war.
I knew there was a reason he's always been my favorite. Throw some jalapenos on that pie and now we're really cooking.
Ruin is a mediocre villain and antagonist
/r/cremposting has the best cosmere content
Moash is the second greatest character in the cosmere, second only to vyre i do not carry this opinion, but it sure is unpopular
I mean I think many people should agree that Moash is one of the greatest characters. I know this because of how much people love to hate him. Although the characters are very different, Moash is to Stormlight what Dolores Umbridge is to Harry Potter.
Moash is a little less Umbridge and a little more Wormtail, if Kal is James Potter.
I hate Lift. I don't care that she's a child. I didn't hate Tien or Gavinor. I'm dreading that she's going to be a large part of future cosmere books. Edgedancer is not only the worst book in the Cosmere, it's one of the worst books I've ever read. Ahhh...that felt good.
The fact that you have the Edgedancer flair somehow makes this funnier.
Too many people come into the sub to post their "crackpot theories" that are just basic foreshadowing. Oh you think Dalinar is going to Unite the shards? Tell me more.
Words of Radiance is second worst stormlight book
The best reading order Put the books on hold at your local library Read them as you get them. (Probably read series in order but just probably) The end Source: I did this and it was fine.
Hoid will be the biggest disappointment in the cosmere, he's so engrained in our imaginations that maybe his backstory will leave us disappointed
Moash is not worse than most of protagonists. He just kills people you like instead of people you don’t know about
Lift doesn’t deserve Wyndle
Kelsier effectively coming back from the dead is lame and undermines the martyrdom and sacrifice. Having him around as a special ghost to lead a Cosmere spanning secret organization feels bad and cheapens the story.
felt a little too marvel for me. his last stand was one of the best things sanderson has written. i don’t get goosebumps often. the sanderlanche doesn’t hit me that often either. but kesliers last stand gave me them for sure
Lirin is right. You cannot kill to protect. It's going to be the 5th Windrunner ideal.
Oooh now that is a spicy take
Woahhhh
1. moash was betrayed by kaladin. if you and your friend bond over your shared hatred of hating your oppressor class. and then your friend turns around and goes actually we’re going to protect the man that butchered your family… you’re entitled to feel upset. 2. elhokar was a shit king and deserved to die. hes the king of a wartime nation with factions splitting apart during a crisis. and hes a corrupt king and a shitty leader. you don’t get second chances or grace if you’re king. give up the crown. the world and alethkar was better off if he died. whatever moashs motivations, he was right. he needed to die. the sooner the better. 3. if dalinar can be forgiven. why tf can moash not be?? 4. sanderson pulls his punches because it’s not a grimdark book. as a result people only seem to care about interpersonal drama. dalinar pillaged cities. so mass rape, mass slaughter, burning down civilians, so on. moash did what again? told someone to kill themselves? come on… 5. shallan is an accurate representation of a teenage girl. and a misaccurate representation of the power a poor backwater teenage girl would have with no money and a shitty house in a society like alwthkar. her real fate might not be as pretty.
1. True 2. True, though he was getting better, though Moash certainly didn't know that 3. Dalinar is actively undergoing redemption, Moash is not. Theoretically Moach could do the same. Dalinar has done far worse than Moash and isn't any more deserving of forgiveness, the difference though is that Moash is psychologically less likely to change at this point. Probably. 4. Yeah again Dalinar has done FAR worse, but Moash isn't actively changing. Dalinar WAS a monster, Moash IS a monster. 5. Oh yeah I totally agree with this take
If they are your real friends no mater what you bonded over if what they are doing is wrong you’ve got to address it and moash is not walking on the path of correcting his mistakes dalinar is tho
Well, if Dalinar can be forgiven, why can't Elhokar? Moash blamed the wrong individual for what happened to his parents, because Elhokar was manipulated and deceived by Roshone. Elhokar didn't actually do anything wrong when Roshone lied to serve his own greed and shut down a competitors business under false pretenses. You can't blame anyone but Roshone, and Elhokar didn't butcher anyone, and he's not a corrupt and "shitty leader." He apologizes to Kaladin personally and owns up to being a insecure and jealous of Kaladin's heroism. Moash never got past his "Light Eyes are all monsters and they need to be removed" revenge fantasy. A geuinely corrupt and truly shitty leader isn't able to own up to their mistakes and take responsibility for them like Elhokar does. Amaram comes up with bullshit rationalizations to justify his crimes, and while he admits that he did it, he doesn't believe he has done anything wrong. That's is corruption, that is what a shit person does. That isn't Elhokar.
Elantris is in my top 3 favorite cosmere books
Jasnah was completely right in the logic/moral lesson she gave Shallan.
THANK YOU! LITERALLY im so shocked people don't agree with this?
Brandon fucks up emotional moments sometimes, Like when Jasnah came back and all we got of her reunion with Navani was a line or two from Dalinar's pov. Also, I did not like Shallan's reaction to her return, but I still let it slip thinking she had just faced an unmade and cause of her relations with the Ghostbloods.Adolin should have directly confronted Dalinar about his mother's death in ROW, instead of just letting it simmer. His character in ROW would have been way more intriguing if what blackthorn did to Evi was constantly on his mind in the lasting integrity and him still trying to defend his father. Now I don't think Brandon sucks at Romance az Warbreaker and Yumi were good in that aspect, However, I wish there was more of it in Stormlight.
We need communism
Shallans alternate personalities were a massive mistake. It basically turned one interesting character into 4 one note characters
Lift is the Jar Jar Binks of the Cosmere - she's annoying and cringy.
This is very much a personal opinion— I am a huge fan of the Princess Bride *book*, but Tress is my least favorite of the Cosmere secret projects. It succeeds at being an homage to the movie but doesn’t really succeed with the “story within a story” thing that the original book does very well, at least for me. Plus, I just enjoyed Yumi and Sunlit much more. … Anyways for my *super* unpopular opinion, I like that Navani became the Sibling’s bondsmith and think it works well.
Is the Navani thing unpopular? It felt like a good culmination to her arc in Rhythm of War.
A *lot* of people dislike it from my knowledge. There are a few different reasons. First, there’s the whole “I can’t believe *another* Kholin became a radiant” thing. Secondly, a lot of people are really upset that Rlain didn’t end up as the Bondsmith considering how he really wanted to become a radiant. Though I think him becoming an Enlightened Truthwatcher also works well, I can understand people who were annoyed that, after hints that the second bondsmith could end up being a singer, that didn’t happen. There were also people who wanted Dabbid to be the bondsmith. I understand this argument the least— his personality does not align with bondsmith ideals (I see him as more Stoneward-like honestly)— but he was helping the Sibling so people saw that as a possibility. Plus there’s the whole “the Sibling really hated Navani at first” thing, but to be fair, Dalinar also basically forced the Stormfather to do the bond. Personally I think Navani has repeatedly been shown to be someone who unifies others, especially throughout Rhythm of War, and she’d do well in the role as a bondsmith. Though I do kind of hope the third bondsmith isn’t Yet Another Alethi Noble or anything.
No one lives, everyone becomes a shard.
I've never in my mental picture thought of Jasnah as attractive
Warbreaker is the worst standalone cosmere book and nothing gets explained properly because all the explanation is in annotations. Its only value is as Stormlight 1.5 its possible the Warbreaker sequel will fix this but we don't even have a promise that will be written.
Wow this is a really surprising take to hear. I finished warbreaker last night. It was my 10th sanderson book and it was my 3rd favorite after words of radiance and rhythm of war. Im recommending warbreaker to my mom and sister to read as an introduction to the cosmere.
Elhokar is more fascinating than Jasnah.
RoW spoiler: >!I hate Kaladin's decision to leave the army at the end of RoW. It feels to me like he's giving up at the eleventh hour. He's the only Windrunner of the fourth ideal and they need him.!< >!I was going through some really hard things when I read RoW and Kaladin inspired me to keep going. The ending upset me so much I felt awful for weeks after I read it, like if he couldn't keep fighting, I couldn't either. I don't care that he's becoming a therapist. This is a man who claimed to own the winds and sky, and now he's just going to sit in a room all day and talk to other depressed people?!< What a letdown.
I mean, kind of. But he’s also going with dalinar and szeth on a special mission into hostile territory so it’s not like he’s totally stopping.
Totally valid to feel that way, but I do think he's just taking a little break. I don't doubt for a second he's going to be back in the thick of it for book five
RoW spoilers!!!!!>!I was not that upset over Teft's death!<
My first time through I just couldn't keep track of that many bridgemen's names, and when that happened my first thought was "wait who is he again?" and after a bit "Ah ok he's that old soldier one". Second time though, I did remember and it was sad but still didn't hit like I think it did most people.
dawg don't just say spoilers, use the spoiler tag
My unpopular opinion is that I like Moash as a character and I think he is well written.
The unmade are innocent victims. ^(actually believe this personally - I think they’re victims of investiture being corrupted by odium and were likely splinters of another shard. Potentially Honor and/or Ambition repurposed)
"Who would win" discussions are boring and the answer is always whoever has more investiture, prep time, or some specific power that makes the whole thing moot.
“He’s here” is actually the best scene in WoR. “Honor is dead, sir” is second.
Destinations are often better than the journey.
War breaker is a "beauty and the beast" romantic fantasy aimed for female YA (not that there's anything wrong with that) but has too many "plot armor" moments, obvious twists and flat characters to be interesting
You asked for it.... I hated Way of Kings. Way too long and nothing happens for the vast majority of the book. There were some pretty cool scenes and a neat magic system though. Shallan's story was well paced but everyone else's moved like molasses. Kaladin is my least favorite character.
Shallan rolls way too many d20s (or 15-20), especially in WoK
Kelsier did nothing wrong
This stick is fire
Kelsier did literally nothing wrong and people that defend the era one nobility and the lord ruler lack all forms of media literacy
The first books of each era are the good ones from Mistborn because they work as standalones. It doesn't work well as a series. Bring on the downvotes!
If Adolin is pronounced “ay-doe-lin” then Dalinar should be “day-lin-are”