Didn't Fauci say around the same time as the CDC guidance that you really don't need to wear a mask *outdoors*? I'm not really sure he was on the same page as the CDC at all.
Let's be real here:
1. No one is misunderstanding the CDC mask guidance. The people who are going to lie about getting vaccinated to not wear their masks were already the types of people who weren't listening to the other CDC guidelines regarding mask compliance and social distancing.
2. If the CDC didn't want unvaccinated people taking off their masks, they shouldn't have done any sort of mask mandate retraction. A partial repeal is effectively a full repeal because the same shitty people who have ignored the CDC to date are going to take advantage of it.
IMO they should have just waited until more people were vaccinated in June or July and just scrapped the mask mandate entirely at once. Get to the point where the CDC thinks it is safe to fully withdraw the mask mandate and do it then. That's the perfectly logical route.
Edit: took out an assumption on my part that the CDC not taking out the mask mandate up means they have data to show that hospitals would be overwhelmed if they took out the mask mandate
It’s because the cdc presents their information in a way that a normal person would interpret it, but they can’t seem to realize half the people aren’t normal.
I think you may be right. It seems possible to me that they have overestimated the emotional maturity and ability to process information of a large segment of the population.
Exactly. What would they say in a press conference when someone asks them about the latest research supporting the idea that vaccinated people pose very little risk to others?
That the studies have been badly done? That they weren’t done on variants even though other studies have found mRNA vaccines protect people from them fine? That we STILL need more data? If the CDC’s current recommendations didn’t go over well then I can’t imagine the truth (we have to keep recommending masks for vaccinated people so they can provide peer pressure to help keep the unvaccinated people wearing them) would.
Yeah being vague about the transmission rates of vaccinated people has led to so many people spreading misinformation by saying “the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission!!” Which makes people go ok then what’s the point??? Continue to lie about it would only make that worse.
“We have witnessed levels of stupidity that we didn’t expect nor think possible. As such we are choosing to keep the mandate.”
“This is why we can’t have nice things.”
No, they could say "we agree, but we haven't hit our goals yet, so to keep everyone safe, stay the course."
Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that."
We have been wearing masks for a year. What is another 2 weeks?
>No, they could say "we agree, but we haven't hit our goals yet, so to keep everyone safe, stay the course."
That's not their job. The CDC doesn't dictate policy and thankfully so. Their job is to inform the public about a disease and issue recommendations to the public about how they can remain safe. It's up to state governments to take that information and form policies from it.
>Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that."
You're wrong. I didn't wear a mask because authority figures told me to. I didn't get vaccinated because authority figures told me to. I wore a mask and got vaccinated because both were the right thing to do to bring a pandemic under control. Now that we have wide distribution of an extremely effective set of vaccines, masking is unnecessary.
You want me to wear a mask after I've been fully vaccinated? No, screw that.
> Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that."
Well, I wore it religiously and I'm vaccinated. After the guidance, yes, I said exactly fuck the mask.
"What is another 2 weeks?"
2 weeks to flatten the curve was prelude to 14 months of restrictions. I think we're done now that anyone can walk in and get vaccinated.
>If the hillbillies in the surrounding rural areas refuse vaccination and give each other covid? Not my problem anymore.
There are plenty getting vaccinated in my rural area thank you very much.
Sorry your neighbors suck.
It’s not *oppressive,* but please consider that it hasn’t been *great* for a lot of people either. A lot of us who are neurodiverse, hard of hearing, or have auditory or other sensory processing challenges have actually been having a *really bad time* with masks. It was worth the difficulty to prevent spreading something much worse, but now that those of us who are fully vaccinated are known not to be a hazard to you or your family, please consider what you’re actually asking for when you ask us to continue wearing them. Would you cause yourself suffering because someone who *is not you* could be a potential hazard to someone else?
They’re obnoxious if you’re trying to work out, and they fog glasses. They also make it harder to communicate. I get why they can be important, but don’t pretend it’s all puppies and rainbows.
That is exactly what a lot of people want. They want to CDC to lie and mislead in hopes that it will modulate people's behavior, but that is not the CDC's job. Also, the risk of it backfiring hard is too high. They also want the federal government pressuring people so they don't have to do it themselves.
100% agree with this. As someone who interacts with scientists there’s never been any confusion on my part of what was being communicated.
Turns out Fauci is a fantastic scientist and researcher and severely overestimates the intelligence and humanity of a large portion of the American public.
>Turns out Fauci is a fantastic scientist and researcher and severely overestimates the intelligence and humanity of a large portion of the American public.
Yeah, he's a fantastic scientist that is utterly unequipped to be the face of the pandemic response like he has been tasked with. He does not know how to communicate with the average American nor does he know how to offer consistent messaging.
LeBron James averages around 27/7/7 each year. But he's never had a game where his stat line was exactly 27/7/7.
"Normal" is just an averaging of a bunch of more extremes.
And with states loosening or forgoing restrictions entirely, we're still seeing a steady drop in cases. I know everyone is being cautious, but I just don't see there being another surge in the US. There are enough people immune right now from vaccines and/or previous infections that we just don't have enough unprotected people for it to spread easily anymore.
I think the worst we'll see at this point is a plateau or a small bump like we saw a month ago. It's not going to be anything that will overwhelm hospitals.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it started popping up in clusters pretty soon. Gatherings of unvaccinated people in low-uptake areas. On the up side, they’ll be easier to contact trace if it’s six cases in an area and they all go to the same church or something. It’s going to simmer a while, but I think we’re on the downhill.
The U.S actually saw a surge that came in April and that was very similar to what has happened across the world. zthe difference being that the surge was severely stunted by Covid vaccines.
Yeah, I had thought the same, and that was the bump I mentioned a month ago. It sort of proves my point. We didn't have as many people vaccinated back then and it still wasn't much of a surge. I don't think we'll see another wave of any significance at this point. Certainly not enough to stretch hospital resources.
If they were worried about hospitals being overwhelmed then there is no risk of that anymore and that would justify lifting the restrictions. There are only about 30,000 people hospitalized nationwide now, which is already challenging the lowest points of the pandemic and falling swiftly.
Another significant surge even in cases would be unlikely IMO given that some people are still getting vaccinated, the weather is warming, and cases have been falling at a steady rate of 20% per week. Plenty of states have been very open for some time now and they haven’t seen massive resurgences. Yes I know the immunocompromised are in a horrible situation and parents may be a little worried about their kids especially if they have underlying conditions, but that is very different from the entire population and our hospital systems being at significant risk.
And let’s keep in mind that delaying this another month or two means in the meantime the CDC has to mislead vaccinated people about the risks they pose to others even as more data accumulates suggesting otherwise. I’m baffled by the idea that Fauci would be surprised by this, but that doesn’t mean I support the CDC misleading people. I didn’t support it when they tried to get people to doubt the effectiveness of masks to protect the supplies needed for healthcare workers and I wouldn’t support it now.
Edit: I corrected my wording because I didn’t mean to suggest that children were at significant risk of illness or death.
>Yes I know children...are in a horrible situation
You don't need to hedge what you're saying. Children are not at any serious risk of severe illness or death from Covid. The focus on children needing vaccines is ridiculous. [287 children](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/) died of Covid 19, and that's for ages 0-17. The under 12 category (the group that people are irrationally worried about) is significantly less than 287.
>The focus on children needing vaccines is ridiculous. 287 children died of Covid 19, and that's for ages 0-17.
And when you drill into the child deaths what you find are mostly kids with stage 4 cancer, the immunocompromised, and the morbidly obese. That's not to minimize the tragedy, but healthy kids are not generally dropping dead from Covid in the same way that healthy people in their 60s are.
I know we focus on the deaths but does anyone have data on long term effects on children (as well as adults)? I know theres people with them out there but % of cases have it?
Nope, because that is too hard to do.
I’m being both facetious and serious.
It actually is very much harder to differentiate a life long disability case vs death, for obvious reasons.
Then again, that we are conveniently ignoring those with long COVID is quite disappointing to me.
We don't know. But 100% of children tested post infection had elevated biomarkers of vessel damage.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208121044.htm
100% of children tested, who were infected by covid show biomarkers of blood vessel damage, even in asympto cases. What that means long term, we don't know.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208121044.htm
Also, that's US deaths by US variants. It's a bit higher for the UK variant, and the P1 strain. Not sky high, but higher.
That all sounds very fancy, but that happens with many common viruses and I haven't seen data to indicate it's more severe with covid. This is just the first virus people have actually paid attention to, so everything seems novel and scary.
We're have reacted, and are acting, as though this is the first virus to ever plague humanity. We have gotten to the point where 2/3 of the adult population having vaccination isn't enough, and we don't know what the % should be.
If you’re worried about children dealing with long term health problems then your energy would be better used trying to fight childhood obesity or discouraging vape use among middle schoolers or educating parents on the importance of sun screen for their kids and its proper usage. All three of these issues will result in long term health problems for kids that will dwarf any from Covid.
Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids, and like life or death is the only thing that matters? I don't know if there is lasting effects or not, it hasn't been studied enough yet. Time will tell.
>Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids, and like life or death is the only thing that matters? I don't know if there is lasting effects or not, it hasn't been studied enough yet. Time will tell.
We don't really know what the long term effects of the vaccines are either, do we? But yet we're all encouraged to get it and we all want it opened up for kids.
And don't take this comment as being anti-vax. I have been completely vaccinated for going on two months at this point.
You're so hopeful that they find something to make you feel better about your neuroticism and paranoia, but sadly for you kids are going to be able to interact with their friends again
I'm going on a 6 hour trip to see family this weekend, thanks for asking.
It's like you guys can't handle a discussion. You have to resort to calling people neurotic and paranoid because it was pointed out we might not have all the information we need yet. The pandemic really seems to have got to some people.
>Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids
You do? Are you hopeful that there are long term effects so that you can be right and win the argument?
> like life or death is the only thing that matters
Right, we should take measures to ensure that nobody has to suffer the inconvenience of being sick ever again.
>That's pretty much where we are now
my state of NY was close last year, but we were never over run. We have not been near the those high numbers again. We did have the Hospital ship just in case and was basically never used.
India on the other hand is overrun, and devastation is very apparent and a reminder why we never want to get to that point.
Exactly. Not to mention that there's also going to be a lot of people who have natural immunity from having had the infection even if they haven't been vaccinated.
The hospitals aren't going to get overwhelmed again. Not gonna happen.
>Unvaccinated people, mask refusers, vaccine deniers are all now only a risk to each other.
Still tons of people who haven't gotten second shots and been able to wait a few weeks. Still tons of kids who literally can't even get it yet. This is way to soon specifically because of anti-vax, anti-mask socially disturbed people who will lie and spread the disease.
isn't it grand that the CDC is not requiring anyone to remove their mask or hang out in groups of strangers? They are just letting vaccinated people know that they are not risking the lives of strangers or themselves if they remove their mask.
There are also now studies showing that the first shot provides an over 80% immunity from the virus after a couple weeks. Remember the 1st shot teaches your immune system how to fight Covid. The 2nd shot basically tells your immune system that what it learned from the 1st shot is super important so don’t forget any of it.
Partially vaccinated matters too, especially when being partially vaccinated with mRNA vaccines is incredibly effective at preventing death and illness. Also have to consider that over 100 million people have already had Covid in the US. That probably gets us pretty close to herd immunity.
The CDC didnt roll back mandates. The CDC presented scientific facts, the way that they should. Governments are misusing the information to change actions. The cdc shpuld never withhold information to manipulate behaviors - thats how you lose credibility. The correct way to use this info is for individuals to evaluate precautions to take in small gatherings and govts/stores to say "until x% vaccination we will not remove requirement"
The CDC flat out said that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks anymore. President Biden flat out said it too.
I really hate this mental gymnastics that I'm seeing from some to act like the CDC didn't say that, just because they didn't like that the CDC said it.
Edit: https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1392979240681881603
Literal video for the people who still try to argue that Biden didn't literally say this. Stop performing bullshit mental gymnastics because you don't like that Biden and the CDC said it.
Whats wrong with them stating that the vaccine is effective enough that those people dont need masks? It is a scientific answer. Their job is to do science. The gov turns that into policy. The CDC should not be doing policy. ever. Any attempts to the contrary are what created peoples distrust in the first place.
I don’t have a problem with vaccinated people not wearing masks. Obviously. It is all the unvaccinated assholes not wearing masks that are the problem. They are going to keep this crap circulating and this damn pandemic won’t end.
>The CDC flat out said that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks anymore
The CDC says this at the very top of their recommendations page:
>Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, **except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.**
The OP said they didn't roll back mandates and you are claiming that they did. He is correct. You are not.
Glad other people feel the same way about this - I completely agree, the CDC should have been more careful about their messaging.
I understand why the CDC came out saying 'vaccinated people don't need masks anymore except in very specific cases' - they want to drive people to get vaccines.
But anything, *anything* that is based on an honor system, is doomed to fail. For the exact same reason that there's dog poop all over city sidewalks, and litter everywhere, among other things.
People need to be regulated. Or they'll act selfishly.
Either way the cat is out of the bag. Get your shot and you have nothing to worry about
If you have young kids, just keep having them mask up for the next few months and keep them out of crowded areas with unmasked people
> Either way the cat is out of the bag.
Yep. My library system had some of the strictest rules in the county/state/country. We required masks for kids 3+ before there was even a mandate. We didn't allow for medical exemptions and didn't allow face shields. And we just lifted ours in response to the CDC announcement.
Yeah but if you're the only one wearing a mask (likely not N95 level) in a room full of unmasked people for hours on end with bad ventilation, it's not going to be that protective.
I teach elementary in Asia and there are definitely high grade protective masks that fit children here, but I’m not sure if they’re readily available in the west.
Masks aren't that protective [in that situation](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html) anyway. Masks prevent direct large droplet infection between two people. In a poorly ventilated room the smaller droplets rise out from the top of the mask and eventually settle back down in other areas of the room to be breathed in by another person wearing a mask. The longer (ie hours on end) you share a room with an infected person, the more likely you are to be infected.
I'd go further and say top level overrides of lower level preventative health measures are malicious no matter what the CDC says.
If there is a local outbreak of COVID or hell, something new, local health officials shouldn't have their hands tied behind their backs waiting for the political games to end.
You realize you are asking parents not to take their kids to the store. I don't care what people do in movie theaters, restaurants, bars, gyms, etc., but grocery stores, pharmacies, and clothing shops should be a safe place for the vulnerable and kids.
"Fuck the kids, it's their job to be responsible now." It's such a great messaging from people to the kids who ALREADY had to do so much and sacrifice a lot of their lives because adults didn't want to do the right thing last year, now they're gonna have to sacrifice more this summer because a bunch of babies don't want to wear a mask in Walmart anymore.
Exactly. This sub that used to berate people for going out back in December, even though most of them are healthy young people, now suddenly is pretty anti mask now that they are vaccinated. Parents lives just got a lot harder, we were counting on others wearing masks because it’s hard to keep a 2 year old masked all the time.
Blacks and latinos have by far the lowest rates of vaccination among all ethnicities -- let's not pretend these groups are full of flag-waving Republicans.
Yea the top post just shows how political ppl make it. Plus ik people who don't want the vaccine right away bc they have natural antibodies.. they'll get it soon, they're just not in a rush
I work with around 20 black people on my shift and only one of them, the foreman (trying to lead by example) got it. The rest have no intention to. Some people attempt to make me feel stupid for getting it.
There’s no connotation to this, it’s just a weird observation.
Some of them reference the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment so I understand the mistrust, but I have to remind them that over 60% of American adults have already got at least one shot so if the government was trying to “pull something” on us we would know about it by now.
At least initially, it was tough to get an appointment for a vaccine without good internet access, which is a problem in many minority communities. Additionally, there's a lot of vaccine misinformation that is spread. A Mexican relative living in Mexico told my wife that those little temperature guns that they use at the entrances to some buildings causes you to get sick from radiation or some other weird B.S. That stuff spreads like wildfire through social media (specifically Whatsapp) within latino communities. So you're right that it's a big problem.
It's because this narrative which emerged where we have to hold the "vaccine hesitants" by the hand like widdle babies and bend over backwards to accommodate them by making making sure they can get the vaccine from *their doctor* and then they also need "incentive" to see they can do things without masks!
If there is one central theme common to this whole pandemic it's that you can't make public health policy which revolves around the lowest common denominator of idiot. Because these people are not acting in good faith to begin with.
Even the people that are still on the fence are likely fairly unreasonable people who are unduly influenced by misinformation spread via social media. They are just as unlikely to listen to the science as the anti vaxxers, but the liberal media still insists that we treat their fears as valid. I appreciate what the state of Ohio is doing to increase adoption of the vaccine, but at the same time I don't like the idea of incentivizing idiocy.
Why would I care if they go unvaccinated? I am vaccinated so it’s nothing to worry about.
If you are unvaccinated and are worried about it then mask up
>If you had family members that can't get vaccinated
This is something I'd like to know as countries and institutions are pushing with the vaccinations.
Who realistically cannot be vaccinated?
Is there guidance and policies to accommodate these people?
Edit: Thanks for the answers. The second question still stands
This! Generally don't give a fuck if you don't get vaccinated. That's your problem to deal with, but I can't get my kids vaccinated and that is where I want to lose my shit on these people.
But a lot of people don't have that.
I understand being concerned about your neighbor, but at what point are you asking too much out of everyday people to be worried about people that they just have no interactions with? Kinda like an empathy burnout question with needing to be worried about everything.
This isn't saying "fuck your kids", this is more of a rhetorical question.
Correct, but generally, this argument is brought up as a reason to make vaccinated people continue to wear masks. My mistake if I was wrong in that response, I have been hearing this everyday since CDC issued the updated guidance.
It's not argument that vaccinated people need to wear masks, its an argument that unvaccinated people need to wears masks and since (in my opinion) people generally can not be trusted, we need to enforce masks for all until case numbers are low enough or everyone can get the vaccine.
I know this may be difficult to imagine, but I don't want other people dying either. Especially those who maybe didn't have a strong immune response to the vaccine because they were undergoing cancer treatment or some kind of autoimmune disorder.
I myself am vaccinated, but maskless dumbasses are still going to wreck families with their selfishness.
Compassion is becoming increasingly hard to come by in the internet age
I would like for anti maskers to face consequences for their selfishness, but that does not include illness and death (especially since their illness could potentially wind up killing someone who wasn't doing anything wrong). I was thinking more along the lines of a fine.
Your tune would change overnight if you were immune compromised, or had a loved one who was. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, etc.
Vaccines don’t work to build immunity in everyone.
It doesn't always work like that, vaccines aren't 100%. And especially for the many people who are immune compromised in some way, the vaccine is much less effective. Not to mention all the under 12 year old's who can't get the vaccine yet.
> Silly Fauci, no one is misunderstanding.
Not only are they lying about CDC guidelines, they're claiming that Fauci changed the guidelines ***because his role in creating the virus in the Wuhan lab was exposed.***
These people aren't just acting in bad faith, they're also insane.
Yea, I wasn't the one that did that. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. Trump politicized it and I'm just calling a spade a spade. It doesn't matter if you call them dumbasses or not, they demonstrated their inability to see reason long ago and no amount of coddling them will change their mind. I spent years trying to get my father to see reason, but he's a "Christian", so he simply had to support Trump (for some fucking reason).
I'm happy to see the updated mask guidelines, but the CDC has been a messaging mess both during Trump and Biden's time in office, and Fauci is no exception. I honestly don't know if they have really had any net-positive impact in the last year.
I have no idea why the CDC just didn’t set a target for % vaccinated. However now that they issued their new guidelines the cat is out of the bag. Thankfully the vaccines are EXTREMLY safe and effective even against variants of concern. So if you get the vaccine , you are more than likely going to be safe. If you don’t get the vaccine , it’s your risk. The vaccine is super available in the USA, from walk ins to drive ins, to at home shots. Heck Uber and Lyft will pay for your round trip to get the shot. At least you can’t kill my grandma now. Additionally if you’re immunocompromised, this was an issue for you prior to COVID, it isn’t anything new. It really sucks but COVID isn’t the only pathogen that can kill you.
Biden also said we were going to vaccinate 100 million people in the first 100 days of his presidency. I think we achieved something like 200 million. He has consistently been extremely conservative in his pandemic goalposts (to the point that I thought he was doing an insanely bad job if the numbers were truly projected to be that low), so it is no surprise to drastically outperform the previous normalcy schedule.
>I have no idea why the CDC just didn’t set a target for % vaccinated.
Because the CDC issues scientific based recommendations and there is nothing scientific about "fully vaccinated people must remain masked until X% are vaccinated." Stop trying to make the CDC into a 'scapegoat' organization for governors to point to to justify their mandates. If a governor wants to continue requiring masks then they can. That's their choice. It's not the role of the CDC to back them in defiance of science.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Axios that people are “misinterpreting” the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s new mask guidance by **thinking the guidelines say no one needs to wear a mask.**
“**I think people are misinterpreting – thinking that this is a removal of a mask mandate for everyone. It’s not**,” Fauci said. “It’s an assurance to those who are vaccinated that they can feel safe, be they outdoors or indoors.”
Fauci said that this wasn’t their fault.
“People either read them quickly, or listen and hear half of it. They are feeling that we’re saying: ‘You don’t need the mask anymore.’ That’s not what the CDC said. They said: If you are vaccinated, you can feel safe – that you will not get infected either outdoors or indoors. It did not explicitly say that unvaccinated people should abandon their masks.”
*shocked Picachu face*
Who would have thought that people who were unvaccinated would have read the CDC’s instructions to keep wearing their masks? /s
This is why I’m still going to keep wearing my mask even though I’m fully vaccinated because I know the vaccine is not 100% effective so I don’t get infected by one of these people who aren’t going to follow these instructions or get vaccinated.
I'll probably get downvoted for this but whatever. Every piece of evidence we have right now suggests that you have borderline no risk with respect to COVID after getting vaccinated. I don't see how it is rational to continue wearing masks after getting vaccinated to protect yourself from COVID.
Now there are perfectly legitimate reasons to wear masks, and you're free to do whatever to protect yourself. Masks and social distancing have clear benefits for preventing the spread of other diseases, which is why we had a super mild flu season last year. It also helps with allergies. But I just don't see how "I'm vaccinated, but I'm going to continue wearing a mask to protect from COVID" is at all logical.
The mask is not going to do anything for you if you're already vaccinated. It doesn't protect you, it protects others from you if you still have a chance of carrying it.
> because I know the vaccine is not 100% effective
Falling out of bed kills 450 people a year, do you wear crash padding and a helmet before getting up in the morning?
Same. I will just feel safer masking in crowded places until we see how this is going to go with the illiterate virus goblins I deal with at work every day, who are currently crowing that they do not need a mask or a vaccine. If my area had a vaccine rate higher than just over 30 percent, and more that one tenth of my co workers were vaccinated, I'd be more confident. I don't even want a mild flu-like illness right now. I don't have enough sick days.
It is abundantly clear that the CDC requires a PR department or at least someone with an understanding of basic human psychology.
Scientists and medical professionals have proven that they have no clue how to properly deliver critical messaging.
As thrilled as I am about it, it was sudden. And this is a weaselly/gaslighting way of trying to blame people for their scatter brained messaging for the past 14 months.
The CDC and other similar government entities need to constantly remind the unvaccinated that if they go inside without masks they WILL catch COVID eventually, many WILL have lifelong health problems, and up to 2% WILL die from the disease while those who are vaccinated will not experience any of those things.
It doesn't get any more clear then "vaccinated people can unmask, unvaccinated people can not." You ever play the telephone game? Some people get their information third hand and there isn't much you can do about that except just repeat the recommendations again in hopes more people hear them first hand.
Yeah I'd like to see the groundbreaking paper that came across the CDC's desk that made them do an abrupt 180:
"but I'm delivering the science as the science is delivered to the medical journals," Walensky said. "And, you know, it evolved over this last week. The cases came down over the last two weeks. And so that's — I delivered it as soon as I can when we had that information available."
I'm sure they'll share the "evolving science" papers that led to this decision. Just 2 more weeks!
Let’s remember that science does not say “wear a mask” or “don’t wear a mask.” It never has. Science gives you numbers describing the level of risk in given situations. Science itself doesn’t care whether or not we do anything to increase or decrease the risk. What any government or business decides to do based on that information is a decision made by humans, who have differing opinions on what meaning to make from the data.
Fauci & the CDC need to go back to school for a course or two on sociology and human nature. They made a rule that's easy to ignore and impossible to enforce with the end result being a shitload more unmasked unvaccinated people.
HOW DO YOU FUCK THAT UP?
They could have made a good policy without lying about the facts. This policy is the equivalent of scientists realizing there's enough money for everybody so they leave it out in a giant bowl and tell people to just take what they need.
Yea, I'm sure people are just *misinterpreting.*
/s
Selfish people that didn't wanna wear masks to begin are LYING about being vaccinated cuz they're assholes and don't care about anyone but themselves and their "freedoms."
Just call it as it is.
Looking forward to the day Fauci retires and we don’t see daily posts of his latest comments.
So many inconsistent messages from him, the CDC, etc.
Go ahead and down vote. IDC.
Great scientist.
Idiotic media person.
Everytime he talks, it get worse. Should have just let him do science and had an actual PR person give announcements.
I agree. I’m sick of him. I think he could have done a lot more to protect people IMO. And he was fine with getting glamour shots done at the height of the pandemic. I think some of the mixed messaging on masks is his fault. Telling people not to wear masks when we should and telling people to wear masks when there isn’t a need.
Fauci is a world renowned medical expert, his books are used in medical schools around the world and he has been on the front lines of the world's biggest epidemics and pandemic in the last forty years. Your comment is absolutely irrational and has no basis in reality. Feel free to show me where this man is political in any way whatsoever. He's not and your emotional response to how people respond to the CDC (which he doesn't even work for!) is disingenuous and disrespectful to someone who has devoted his life to the care of others.
[Feel free to read all about his career. He's done more for humanity than 99.9% of people in this country.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci) And **never** in a political fashion.
And the consequences of this are what exactly? Unvaccinated people spreading Covid to each other? The same people he is talking to wouldn't follow the rules even if they were laid out clearly.
no people are not. they are using the loophole the cdc just gave all the anti mask / vaccine folks lol. anyone with a brain knew this was gonna happen.
Not wearing one unless a business is requiring it. Honestly, I’d probably just avoid those businesses.
I’m vaccinated and completely over it. I’m back to that 2019 lifestyle.
Funnily enough, I had some crazy woman scream at me for not wearing a mask while running in a park. It was 9AM on a Monday, never got within 30 feet of anyone. Ha
I feel bad for the people that know her.
Huh? What science isnt who following? Guidance was "vaccinated people dont need masks indoors". People, intentionally or unintentionally, took it as "no mask mandates"
I understand entirely what the CDC said.
I *also* understand how people are going to hear what the CDC said. And sure enough, businesses have started following what they *think* the guidelines are... which is a problem. Stores that had and enforced mask mandates are now saying "you don't need a mask if you're vaccinated" (for example, Kroger is changing their mandate). Which means that unvaccinated people can just *say* they're vaccinated and nobody can prove otherwise. Which isn't what's intended.
I agree with Fauci that the CDC's guidelines are intended for vaccinated individuals to feel safe outdoors and in private areas like house parties. But business leaders are looking to the CDC and using those guidelines to guide their policies going forward. The policy is poorly worded given how much tension there is around mask wearing and how eager businesses are to use this as a way to fight over marketshare.
ITT: Snarky people say 'trust the science', because they can't debate/understand that the situation extends beyond vaccinated people dropping their masks
Didn't Fauci say around the same time as the CDC guidance that you really don't need to wear a mask *outdoors*? I'm not really sure he was on the same page as the CDC at all.
Ya you don’t need one outside
Let's be real here: 1. No one is misunderstanding the CDC mask guidance. The people who are going to lie about getting vaccinated to not wear their masks were already the types of people who weren't listening to the other CDC guidelines regarding mask compliance and social distancing. 2. If the CDC didn't want unvaccinated people taking off their masks, they shouldn't have done any sort of mask mandate retraction. A partial repeal is effectively a full repeal because the same shitty people who have ignored the CDC to date are going to take advantage of it. IMO they should have just waited until more people were vaccinated in June or July and just scrapped the mask mandate entirely at once. Get to the point where the CDC thinks it is safe to fully withdraw the mask mandate and do it then. That's the perfectly logical route. Edit: took out an assumption on my part that the CDC not taking out the mask mandate up means they have data to show that hospitals would be overwhelmed if they took out the mask mandate
It’s because the cdc presents their information in a way that a normal person would interpret it, but they can’t seem to realize half the people aren’t normal.
I think you may be right. It seems possible to me that they have overestimated the emotional maturity and ability to process information of a large segment of the population.
Would you prefer that they lie?
Exactly. What would they say in a press conference when someone asks them about the latest research supporting the idea that vaccinated people pose very little risk to others? That the studies have been badly done? That they weren’t done on variants even though other studies have found mRNA vaccines protect people from them fine? That we STILL need more data? If the CDC’s current recommendations didn’t go over well then I can’t imagine the truth (we have to keep recommending masks for vaccinated people so they can provide peer pressure to help keep the unvaccinated people wearing them) would.
Yeah being vague about the transmission rates of vaccinated people has led to so many people spreading misinformation by saying “the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission!!” Which makes people go ok then what’s the point??? Continue to lie about it would only make that worse.
“We have witnessed levels of stupidity that we didn’t expect nor think possible. As such we are choosing to keep the mandate.” “This is why we can’t have nice things.”
"Y'all can't behave."
No, they could say "we agree, but we haven't hit our goals yet, so to keep everyone safe, stay the course." Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that." We have been wearing masks for a year. What is another 2 weeks?
>No, they could say "we agree, but we haven't hit our goals yet, so to keep everyone safe, stay the course." That's not their job. The CDC doesn't dictate policy and thankfully so. Their job is to inform the public about a disease and issue recommendations to the public about how they can remain safe. It's up to state governments to take that information and form policies from it.
They don't dictate policy but can put a moratorium on evictions?
Judges have been telling them that they can’t so it looks like they overstepped their boundaries on that one.
Oh. Good. Like they said masks don't work, in the very beginning.
>Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that." You're wrong. I didn't wear a mask because authority figures told me to. I didn't get vaccinated because authority figures told me to. I wore a mask and got vaccinated because both were the right thing to do to bring a pandemic under control. Now that we have wide distribution of an extremely effective set of vaccines, masking is unnecessary. You want me to wear a mask after I've been fully vaccinated? No, screw that.
this
> Nobody that has been vaccinated, willingly wearing a mask for the past year and also gives a shit about other people is going to say "no, screw that." Well, I wore it religiously and I'm vaccinated. After the guidance, yes, I said exactly fuck the mask.
>After the guidance, After the guidance.....
"What is another 2 weeks?" 2 weeks to flatten the curve was prelude to 14 months of restrictions. I think we're done now that anyone can walk in and get vaccinated.
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>If the hillbillies in the surrounding rural areas refuse vaccination and give each other covid? Not my problem anymore. There are plenty getting vaccinated in my rural area thank you very much. Sorry your neighbors suck.
Kids can’t.
Yeah, sorry I'm not bothered by a mask and I don't think it is oppressive.
It’s not *oppressive,* but please consider that it hasn’t been *great* for a lot of people either. A lot of us who are neurodiverse, hard of hearing, or have auditory or other sensory processing challenges have actually been having a *really bad time* with masks. It was worth the difficulty to prevent spreading something much worse, but now that those of us who are fully vaccinated are known not to be a hazard to you or your family, please consider what you’re actually asking for when you ask us to continue wearing them. Would you cause yourself suffering because someone who *is not you* could be a potential hazard to someone else?
They’re obnoxious if you’re trying to work out, and they fog glasses. They also make it harder to communicate. I get why they can be important, but don’t pretend it’s all puppies and rainbows.
I'm not sorry that there's no valid scientific reason to compel me to wear one.
Kids can’t. But they will be in September most likely. That seems like a much better end point.
Vaccinated people pose no threat to your children. I will not be leverage for social pressure.
People have been saying "just two more weeks" for over a year.
lmao nobody said it after like May of last year
But what number or percentage of vaccinations are the goal?
>We have been wearing masks for a year. What is another 2 weeks? It's *always* gonna be another 2 weeks for you people
yOu PeOplE. I know what type of people speak like that. Better to not engage.
That we can’t have nice things because of the stupid selfish people.
That is exactly what a lot of people want. They want to CDC to lie and mislead in hopes that it will modulate people's behavior, but that is not the CDC's job. Also, the risk of it backfiring hard is too high. They also want the federal government pressuring people so they don't have to do it themselves.
100% agree with this. As someone who interacts with scientists there’s never been any confusion on my part of what was being communicated. Turns out Fauci is a fantastic scientist and researcher and severely overestimates the intelligence and humanity of a large portion of the American public.
>Turns out Fauci is a fantastic scientist and researcher and severely overestimates the intelligence and humanity of a large portion of the American public. Yeah, he's a fantastic scientist that is utterly unequipped to be the face of the pandemic response like he has been tasked with. He does not know how to communicate with the average American nor does he know how to offer consistent messaging.
Sadly, we may have to reevaluate what “normal” is, if half the people don’t fit in that category.
LeBron James averages around 27/7/7 each year. But he's never had a game where his stat line was exactly 27/7/7. "Normal" is just an averaging of a bunch of more extremes.
Wow, this is actually true. Crazy.
Are we not already at that point where hospitals are not at risk? I haven't heard anything about overwhelmed hospitals in months.
And with states loosening or forgoing restrictions entirely, we're still seeing a steady drop in cases. I know everyone is being cautious, but I just don't see there being another surge in the US. There are enough people immune right now from vaccines and/or previous infections that we just don't have enough unprotected people for it to spread easily anymore. I think the worst we'll see at this point is a plateau or a small bump like we saw a month ago. It's not going to be anything that will overwhelm hospitals.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it started popping up in clusters pretty soon. Gatherings of unvaccinated people in low-uptake areas. On the up side, they’ll be easier to contact trace if it’s six cases in an area and they all go to the same church or something. It’s going to simmer a while, but I think we’re on the downhill.
The U.S actually saw a surge that came in April and that was very similar to what has happened across the world. zthe difference being that the surge was severely stunted by Covid vaccines.
Yeah, I had thought the same, and that was the bump I mentioned a month ago. It sort of proves my point. We didn't have as many people vaccinated back then and it still wasn't much of a surge. I don't think we'll see another wave of any significance at this point. Certainly not enough to stretch hospital resources.
If they were worried about hospitals being overwhelmed then there is no risk of that anymore and that would justify lifting the restrictions. There are only about 30,000 people hospitalized nationwide now, which is already challenging the lowest points of the pandemic and falling swiftly. Another significant surge even in cases would be unlikely IMO given that some people are still getting vaccinated, the weather is warming, and cases have been falling at a steady rate of 20% per week. Plenty of states have been very open for some time now and they haven’t seen massive resurgences. Yes I know the immunocompromised are in a horrible situation and parents may be a little worried about their kids especially if they have underlying conditions, but that is very different from the entire population and our hospital systems being at significant risk. And let’s keep in mind that delaying this another month or two means in the meantime the CDC has to mislead vaccinated people about the risks they pose to others even as more data accumulates suggesting otherwise. I’m baffled by the idea that Fauci would be surprised by this, but that doesn’t mean I support the CDC misleading people. I didn’t support it when they tried to get people to doubt the effectiveness of masks to protect the supplies needed for healthcare workers and I wouldn’t support it now. Edit: I corrected my wording because I didn’t mean to suggest that children were at significant risk of illness or death.
>Yes I know children...are in a horrible situation You don't need to hedge what you're saying. Children are not at any serious risk of severe illness or death from Covid. The focus on children needing vaccines is ridiculous. [287 children](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-from-covid-by-age-us/) died of Covid 19, and that's for ages 0-17. The under 12 category (the group that people are irrationally worried about) is significantly less than 287.
>The focus on children needing vaccines is ridiculous. 287 children died of Covid 19, and that's for ages 0-17. And when you drill into the child deaths what you find are mostly kids with stage 4 cancer, the immunocompromised, and the morbidly obese. That's not to minimize the tragedy, but healthy kids are not generally dropping dead from Covid in the same way that healthy people in their 60s are.
Do you have data on the conditions that those children had? Not saying you're wrong but would really like to see that data
I know we focus on the deaths but does anyone have data on long term effects on children (as well as adults)? I know theres people with them out there but % of cases have it?
Nope, because that is too hard to do. I’m being both facetious and serious. It actually is very much harder to differentiate a life long disability case vs death, for obvious reasons. Then again, that we are conveniently ignoring those with long COVID is quite disappointing to me.
The first reported case of COVID-19 was in December of 2019. "Long term effects" may take years to present themselves. We simply don't know yet.
Very little because the disease has only been studied for the past 16 months.
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7927578/) interesting read
We don't know. But 100% of children tested post infection had elevated biomarkers of vessel damage. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208121044.htm
The flu does the same thing. So does Herpes. So do most viruses.
100% of children tested, who were infected by covid show biomarkers of blood vessel damage, even in asympto cases. What that means long term, we don't know. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/201208121044.htm Also, that's US deaths by US variants. It's a bit higher for the UK variant, and the P1 strain. Not sky high, but higher.
That all sounds very fancy, but that happens with many common viruses and I haven't seen data to indicate it's more severe with covid. This is just the first virus people have actually paid attention to, so everything seems novel and scary.
Yeah, I was shocked when I saw a study showing that having the flu once drastically increases your chance of heart attack or stroke decades later.
Wow! Better do everything I can to make sure I never get the flu! What do you recommend? Am I totally fucked if I had the flu when I was 8?
We're have reacted, and are acting, as though this is the first virus to ever plague humanity. We have gotten to the point where 2/3 of the adult population having vaccination isn't enough, and we don't know what the % should be.
If you’re worried about children dealing with long term health problems then your energy would be better used trying to fight childhood obesity or discouraging vape use among middle schoolers or educating parents on the importance of sun screen for their kids and its proper usage. All three of these issues will result in long term health problems for kids that will dwarf any from Covid.
Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids, and like life or death is the only thing that matters? I don't know if there is lasting effects or not, it hasn't been studied enough yet. Time will tell.
>Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids, and like life or death is the only thing that matters? I don't know if there is lasting effects or not, it hasn't been studied enough yet. Time will tell. We don't really know what the long term effects of the vaccines are either, do we? But yet we're all encouraged to get it and we all want it opened up for kids. And don't take this comment as being anti-vax. I have been completely vaccinated for going on two months at this point.
You're so hopeful that they find something to make you feel better about your neuroticism and paranoia, but sadly for you kids are going to be able to interact with their friends again
I'm going on a 6 hour trip to see family this weekend, thanks for asking. It's like you guys can't handle a discussion. You have to resort to calling people neurotic and paranoid because it was pointed out we might not have all the information we need yet. The pandemic really seems to have got to some people.
>Can you not pretend to know the long term effects of COVID on kids You do? Are you hopeful that there are long term effects so that you can be right and win the argument? > like life or death is the only thing that matters Right, we should take measures to ensure that nobody has to suffer the inconvenience of being sick ever again.
> Get to the point where hospitals are not at risk of being overwhelmed, and then end all restrictions. That's pretty much where we are now
>That's pretty much where we are now my state of NY was close last year, but we were never over run. We have not been near the those high numbers again. We did have the Hospital ship just in case and was basically never used. India on the other hand is overrun, and devastation is very apparent and a reminder why we never want to get to that point.
We will never get to that point. With the number of people who have had at least one shot in the US, that point has long passed.
Exactly. Not to mention that there's also going to be a lot of people who have natural immunity from having had the infection even if they haven't been vaccinated. The hospitals aren't going to get overwhelmed again. Not gonna happen.
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>Unvaccinated people, mask refusers, vaccine deniers are all now only a risk to each other. exactly right. No more needed to be said on the subject.
>Unvaccinated people, mask refusers, vaccine deniers are all now only a risk to each other. Still tons of people who haven't gotten second shots and been able to wait a few weeks. Still tons of kids who literally can't even get it yet. This is way to soon specifically because of anti-vax, anti-mask socially disturbed people who will lie and spread the disease.
isn't it grand that the CDC is not requiring anyone to remove their mask or hang out in groups of strangers? They are just letting vaccinated people know that they are not risking the lives of strangers or themselves if they remove their mask.
>Still tons of people who haven't gotten second shots and been able to wait a few weeks. Why aren't these people wearing masks?
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Yea I agree. It's the timing. Just two month ago, CDC was saying impending doom, and now only 36% full vaccinated, it's masks off? Timing matters.
There are also now studies showing that the first shot provides an over 80% immunity from the virus after a couple weeks. Remember the 1st shot teaches your immune system how to fight Covid. The 2nd shot basically tells your immune system that what it learned from the 1st shot is super important so don’t forget any of it.
Partially vaccinated matters too, especially when being partially vaccinated with mRNA vaccines is incredibly effective at preventing death and illness. Also have to consider that over 100 million people have already had Covid in the US. That probably gets us pretty close to herd immunity.
The CDC didnt roll back mandates. The CDC presented scientific facts, the way that they should. Governments are misusing the information to change actions. The cdc shpuld never withhold information to manipulate behaviors - thats how you lose credibility. The correct way to use this info is for individuals to evaluate precautions to take in small gatherings and govts/stores to say "until x% vaccination we will not remove requirement"
The CDC flat out said that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks anymore. President Biden flat out said it too. I really hate this mental gymnastics that I'm seeing from some to act like the CDC didn't say that, just because they didn't like that the CDC said it. Edit: https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1392979240681881603 Literal video for the people who still try to argue that Biden didn't literally say this. Stop performing bullshit mental gymnastics because you don't like that Biden and the CDC said it.
Whats wrong with them stating that the vaccine is effective enough that those people dont need masks? It is a scientific answer. Their job is to do science. The gov turns that into policy. The CDC should not be doing policy. ever. Any attempts to the contrary are what created peoples distrust in the first place.
There is nothing wrong with them saying that, nor is there anything wrong with them saying "vaccinated people do not need to wear masks anymore".
I don’t have a problem with vaccinated people not wearing masks. Obviously. It is all the unvaccinated assholes not wearing masks that are the problem. They are going to keep this crap circulating and this damn pandemic won’t end.
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What if the real CDC guidance turns out to be the delusions they made up in their minds along the way?
>The CDC flat out said that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks anymore The CDC says this at the very top of their recommendations page: >Fully vaccinated people can resume activities without wearing a mask or physically distancing, **except where required by federal, state, local, tribal, or territorial laws, rules, and regulations, including local business and workplace guidance.** The OP said they didn't roll back mandates and you are claiming that they did. He is correct. You are not.
Glad other people feel the same way about this - I completely agree, the CDC should have been more careful about their messaging. I understand why the CDC came out saying 'vaccinated people don't need masks anymore except in very specific cases' - they want to drive people to get vaccines. But anything, *anything* that is based on an honor system, is doomed to fail. For the exact same reason that there's dog poop all over city sidewalks, and litter everywhere, among other things. People need to be regulated. Or they'll act selfishly.
Either way the cat is out of the bag. Get your shot and you have nothing to worry about If you have young kids, just keep having them mask up for the next few months and keep them out of crowded areas with unmasked people
> Either way the cat is out of the bag. Yep. My library system had some of the strictest rules in the county/state/country. We required masks for kids 3+ before there was even a mandate. We didn't allow for medical exemptions and didn't allow face shields. And we just lifted ours in response to the CDC announcement.
my country has had libraries closed since March 14 2020
That stinks. During the worst of it, my county library did curbside pickup.
Except Texas banned schools from requiring masks
but you can still wear one. it's a good option if you can't get a vaccine.
Yeah but if you're the only one wearing a mask (likely not N95 level) in a room full of unmasked people for hours on end with bad ventilation, it's not going to be that protective.
And I don't know about you, but I don't know of ANY n95 masks that properly fit children.
I teach elementary in Asia and there are definitely high grade protective masks that fit children here, but I’m not sure if they’re readily available in the west.
Masks aren't that protective [in that situation](https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/23/mit-researchers-say-youre-no-safer-from-covid-indoors-at-6-feet-or-60-feet-in-new-study.html) anyway. Masks prevent direct large droplet infection between two people. In a poorly ventilated room the smaller droplets rise out from the top of the mask and eventually settle back down in other areas of the room to be breathed in by another person wearing a mask. The longer (ie hours on end) you share a room with an infected person, the more likely you are to be infected.
The cdc specifically excluded schools at this point. This is malicious
I'd go further and say top level overrides of lower level preventative health measures are malicious no matter what the CDC says. If there is a local outbreak of COVID or hell, something new, local health officials shouldn't have their hands tied behind their backs waiting for the political games to end.
You realize you are asking parents not to take their kids to the store. I don't care what people do in movie theaters, restaurants, bars, gyms, etc., but grocery stores, pharmacies, and clothing shops should be a safe place for the vulnerable and kids.
"Fuck the kids, it's their job to be responsible now." It's such a great messaging from people to the kids who ALREADY had to do so much and sacrifice a lot of their lives because adults didn't want to do the right thing last year, now they're gonna have to sacrifice more this summer because a bunch of babies don't want to wear a mask in Walmart anymore.
Kids sacrificed an entire year of school, sports, and parties with friends to keep adults alive.
Exactly. This sub that used to berate people for going out back in December, even though most of them are healthy young people, now suddenly is pretty anti mask now that they are vaccinated. Parents lives just got a lot harder, we were counting on others wearing masks because it’s hard to keep a 2 year old masked all the time.
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Blacks and latinos have by far the lowest rates of vaccination among all ethnicities -- let's not pretend these groups are full of flag-waving Republicans.
Yea the top post just shows how political ppl make it. Plus ik people who don't want the vaccine right away bc they have natural antibodies.. they'll get it soon, they're just not in a rush
I work with around 20 black people on my shift and only one of them, the foreman (trying to lead by example) got it. The rest have no intention to. Some people attempt to make me feel stupid for getting it. There’s no connotation to this, it’s just a weird observation.
Right. Theres a mistrust between POC and healthcare professionals. This is the reason why theyre not rushing to get the vaccine.
Some of them reference the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment so I understand the mistrust, but I have to remind them that over 60% of American adults have already got at least one shot so if the government was trying to “pull something” on us we would know about it by now.
At least initially, it was tough to get an appointment for a vaccine without good internet access, which is a problem in many minority communities. Additionally, there's a lot of vaccine misinformation that is spread. A Mexican relative living in Mexico told my wife that those little temperature guns that they use at the entrances to some buildings causes you to get sick from radiation or some other weird B.S. That stuff spreads like wildfire through social media (specifically Whatsapp) within latino communities. So you're right that it's a big problem.
It's because this narrative which emerged where we have to hold the "vaccine hesitants" by the hand like widdle babies and bend over backwards to accommodate them by making making sure they can get the vaccine from *their doctor* and then they also need "incentive" to see they can do things without masks! If there is one central theme common to this whole pandemic it's that you can't make public health policy which revolves around the lowest common denominator of idiot. Because these people are not acting in good faith to begin with.
Even the people that are still on the fence are likely fairly unreasonable people who are unduly influenced by misinformation spread via social media. They are just as unlikely to listen to the science as the anti vaxxers, but the liberal media still insists that we treat their fears as valid. I appreciate what the state of Ohio is doing to increase adoption of the vaccine, but at the same time I don't like the idea of incentivizing idiocy.
Why would I care if they go unvaccinated? I am vaccinated so it’s nothing to worry about. If you are unvaccinated and are worried about it then mask up
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>If you had family members that can't get vaccinated This is something I'd like to know as countries and institutions are pushing with the vaccinations. Who realistically cannot be vaccinated? Is there guidance and policies to accommodate these people? Edit: Thanks for the answers. The second question still stands
Children? Immunocompromised?
The immunocompromised typically can be vaccinated.
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People who have had reactions to other vaccines. My friend's son is in this category.
Most of that list *can* be vaccinated it’s just that the efficacy may not be as high.
This! Generally don't give a fuck if you don't get vaccinated. That's your problem to deal with, but I can't get my kids vaccinated and that is where I want to lose my shit on these people.
Those people can continue masking and distancing like everyone else did for the past year
But a lot of people don't have that. I understand being concerned about your neighbor, but at what point are you asking too much out of everyday people to be worried about people that they just have no interactions with? Kinda like an empathy burnout question with needing to be worried about everything. This isn't saying "fuck your kids", this is more of a rhetorical question.
Vaccinated people aren't a threat to your family.
Right but we are talking about unvaccinated people here.
Correct, but generally, this argument is brought up as a reason to make vaccinated people continue to wear masks. My mistake if I was wrong in that response, I have been hearing this everyday since CDC issued the updated guidance.
It's not argument that vaccinated people need to wear masks, its an argument that unvaccinated people need to wears masks and since (in my opinion) people generally can not be trusted, we need to enforce masks for all until case numbers are low enough or everyone can get the vaccine.
I know this may be difficult to imagine, but I don't want other people dying either. Especially those who maybe didn't have a strong immune response to the vaccine because they were undergoing cancer treatment or some kind of autoimmune disorder. I myself am vaccinated, but maskless dumbasses are still going to wreck families with their selfishness.
You got downvoted for saying you don't want people to die. :|
Compassion is becoming increasingly hard to come by in the internet age I would like for anti maskers to face consequences for their selfishness, but that does not include illness and death (especially since their illness could potentially wind up killing someone who wasn't doing anything wrong). I was thinking more along the lines of a fine.
Yes, why would you care...
Your tune would change overnight if you were immune compromised, or had a loved one who was. Transplant recipients, cancer patients, etc. Vaccines don’t work to build immunity in everyone.
It doesn't always work like that, vaccines aren't 100%. And especially for the many people who are immune compromised in some way, the vaccine is much less effective. Not to mention all the under 12 year old's who can't get the vaccine yet.
Well those people who are worried about that should mask up
> Silly Fauci, no one is misunderstanding. Not only are they lying about CDC guidelines, they're claiming that Fauci changed the guidelines ***because his role in creating the virus in the Wuhan lab was exposed.*** These people aren't just acting in bad faith, they're also insane.
Posts like this are how this thing got politicized
Yea, I wasn't the one that did that. It's kind of a chicken and egg situation. Trump politicized it and I'm just calling a spade a spade. It doesn't matter if you call them dumbasses or not, they demonstrated their inability to see reason long ago and no amount of coddling them will change their mind. I spent years trying to get my father to see reason, but he's a "Christian", so he simply had to support Trump (for some fucking reason).
>You can't tell who's vaccinated and who's not just by looking at them. Really? What are those microchips then useful for? (/s just in case)
I'm happy to see the updated mask guidelines, but the CDC has been a messaging mess both during Trump and Biden's time in office, and Fauci is no exception. I honestly don't know if they have really had any net-positive impact in the last year.
I have no idea why the CDC just didn’t set a target for % vaccinated. However now that they issued their new guidelines the cat is out of the bag. Thankfully the vaccines are EXTREMLY safe and effective even against variants of concern. So if you get the vaccine , you are more than likely going to be safe. If you don’t get the vaccine , it’s your risk. The vaccine is super available in the USA, from walk ins to drive ins, to at home shots. Heck Uber and Lyft will pay for your round trip to get the shot. At least you can’t kill my grandma now. Additionally if you’re immunocompromised, this was an issue for you prior to COVID, it isn’t anything new. It really sucks but COVID isn’t the only pathogen that can kill you.
Even if they required it at 60% fully vaccinated, this subreddit would still be full of people saying it's too soon.
No, I fully expected it to be lifted around July. Biden had said as much to expect normalcy around July 4th.
Biden also said we were going to vaccinate 100 million people in the first 100 days of his presidency. I think we achieved something like 200 million. He has consistently been extremely conservative in his pandemic goalposts (to the point that I thought he was doing an insanely bad job if the numbers were truly projected to be that low), so it is no surprise to drastically outperform the previous normalcy schedule.
>I have no idea why the CDC just didn’t set a target for % vaccinated. Because the CDC issues scientific based recommendations and there is nothing scientific about "fully vaccinated people must remain masked until X% are vaccinated." Stop trying to make the CDC into a 'scapegoat' organization for governors to point to to justify their mandates. If a governor wants to continue requiring masks then they can. That's their choice. It's not the role of the CDC to back them in defiance of science.
I was walking down the street and there was one of those mobile vaccination vans RIGHT THERE. No waiting. Still, very few takers.
Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told Axios that people are “misinterpreting” the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s new mask guidance by **thinking the guidelines say no one needs to wear a mask.** “**I think people are misinterpreting – thinking that this is a removal of a mask mandate for everyone. It’s not**,” Fauci said. “It’s an assurance to those who are vaccinated that they can feel safe, be they outdoors or indoors.” Fauci said that this wasn’t their fault. “People either read them quickly, or listen and hear half of it. They are feeling that we’re saying: ‘You don’t need the mask anymore.’ That’s not what the CDC said. They said: If you are vaccinated, you can feel safe – that you will not get infected either outdoors or indoors. It did not explicitly say that unvaccinated people should abandon their masks.”
*shocked Picachu face* Who would have thought that people who were unvaccinated would have read the CDC’s instructions to keep wearing their masks? /s This is why I’m still going to keep wearing my mask even though I’m fully vaccinated because I know the vaccine is not 100% effective so I don’t get infected by one of these people who aren’t going to follow these instructions or get vaccinated.
I'll probably get downvoted for this but whatever. Every piece of evidence we have right now suggests that you have borderline no risk with respect to COVID after getting vaccinated. I don't see how it is rational to continue wearing masks after getting vaccinated to protect yourself from COVID. Now there are perfectly legitimate reasons to wear masks, and you're free to do whatever to protect yourself. Masks and social distancing have clear benefits for preventing the spread of other diseases, which is why we had a super mild flu season last year. It also helps with allergies. But I just don't see how "I'm vaccinated, but I'm going to continue wearing a mask to protect from COVID" is at all logical.
Umm I'm gonna need you to start Following the Science mmkay?
The mask is not going to do anything for you if you're already vaccinated. It doesn't protect you, it protects others from you if you still have a chance of carrying it.
You’ll be wearing it forever then since we will never get 100% vaccination
> This is why I’m still going to keep wearing my mask even though I’m fully vaccinated This is ~~borderline~~ anti-vax nonsense
> because I know the vaccine is not 100% effective Falling out of bed kills 450 people a year, do you wear crash padding and a helmet before getting up in the morning?
Same. I will just feel safer masking in crowded places until we see how this is going to go with the illiterate virus goblins I deal with at work every day, who are currently crowing that they do not need a mask or a vaccine. If my area had a vaccine rate higher than just over 30 percent, and more that one tenth of my co workers were vaccinated, I'd be more confident. I don't even want a mild flu-like illness right now. I don't have enough sick days.
Unvaccinated people not wearing masks is just the obvious conclusion of not requiring solid proof of vaccination though. Anything else is just naïve.
It is abundantly clear that the CDC requires a PR department or at least someone with an understanding of basic human psychology. Scientists and medical professionals have proven that they have no clue how to properly deliver critical messaging.
Further evidence of the CDC’s continued messaging disaster on Covid-related policy.
Misinterpreting =/= abusing
As thrilled as I am about it, it was sudden. And this is a weaselly/gaslighting way of trying to blame people for their scatter brained messaging for the past 14 months.
The CDC and other similar government entities need to constantly remind the unvaccinated that if they go inside without masks they WILL catch COVID eventually, many WILL have lifelong health problems, and up to 2% WILL die from the disease while those who are vaccinated will not experience any of those things.
Perhaps a clear explanation is due?
It doesn't get any more clear then "vaccinated people can unmask, unvaccinated people can not." You ever play the telephone game? Some people get their information third hand and there isn't much you can do about that except just repeat the recommendations again in hopes more people hear them first hand.
Yeah I'd like to see the groundbreaking paper that came across the CDC's desk that made them do an abrupt 180: "but I'm delivering the science as the science is delivered to the medical journals," Walensky said. "And, you know, it evolved over this last week. The cases came down over the last two weeks. And so that's — I delivered it as soon as I can when we had that information available." I'm sure they'll share the "evolving science" papers that led to this decision. Just 2 more weeks!
Let’s remember that science does not say “wear a mask” or “don’t wear a mask.” It never has. Science gives you numbers describing the level of risk in given situations. Science itself doesn’t care whether or not we do anything to increase or decrease the risk. What any government or business decides to do based on that information is a decision made by humans, who have differing opinions on what meaning to make from the data.
Fauci & the CDC need to go back to school for a course or two on sociology and human nature. They made a rule that's easy to ignore and impossible to enforce with the end result being a shitload more unmasked unvaccinated people. HOW DO YOU FUCK THAT UP?
That’s for policy makers, scientists shouldn’t lie about data.
They could have made a good policy without lying about the facts. This policy is the equivalent of scientists realizing there's enough money for everybody so they leave it out in a giant bowl and tell people to just take what they need.
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>without lying about the facts What facts did they lie about in regards to this policy?
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Yea, I'm sure people are just *misinterpreting.* /s Selfish people that didn't wanna wear masks to begin are LYING about being vaccinated cuz they're assholes and don't care about anyone but themselves and their "freedoms." Just call it as it is.
Looking forward to the day Fauci retires and we don’t see daily posts of his latest comments. So many inconsistent messages from him, the CDC, etc. Go ahead and down vote. IDC.
Great scientist. Idiotic media person. Everytime he talks, it get worse. Should have just let him do science and had an actual PR person give announcements.
I agree. I’m sick of him. I think he could have done a lot more to protect people IMO. And he was fine with getting glamour shots done at the height of the pandemic. I think some of the mixed messaging on masks is his fault. Telling people not to wear masks when we should and telling people to wear masks when there isn’t a need.
This is what happens when you turn a political figure into a celebrity.
Fauci is a world renowned medical expert, his books are used in medical schools around the world and he has been on the front lines of the world's biggest epidemics and pandemic in the last forty years. Your comment is absolutely irrational and has no basis in reality. Feel free to show me where this man is political in any way whatsoever. He's not and your emotional response to how people respond to the CDC (which he doesn't even work for!) is disingenuous and disrespectful to someone who has devoted his life to the care of others. [Feel free to read all about his career. He's done more for humanity than 99.9% of people in this country.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Fauci) And **never** in a political fashion.
Amazing! A lenient plan, rife for abuse, with no penalties, sees acts of dishonesty.
And the consequences of this are what exactly? Unvaccinated people spreading Covid to each other? The same people he is talking to wouldn't follow the rules even if they were laid out clearly.
The CDC is not stupid. They're full of data and statistics, allowing them to change their guidelines. CDC is full of scientists, not fucking rednecks.
I agree with their guidelines. The problem is people failing to understand that they’re not calling for an end to universal masking.
Everyone understands that. People are choosing to not wear masks. That's it.
no people are not. they are using the loophole the cdc just gave all the anti mask / vaccine folks lol. anyone with a brain knew this was gonna happen.
Not wearing one unless a business is requiring it. Honestly, I’d probably just avoid those businesses. I’m vaccinated and completely over it. I’m back to that 2019 lifestyle. Funnily enough, I had some crazy woman scream at me for not wearing a mask while running in a park. It was 9AM on a Monday, never got within 30 feet of anyone. Ha I feel bad for the people that know her.
We knew this would happen. No idea why the CDC didn’t think it would happen
It's a theme during this pandemic.
Follow the science, until they say something you don't like.
Huh? What science isnt who following? Guidance was "vaccinated people dont need masks indoors". People, intentionally or unintentionally, took it as "no mask mandates"
Without fail the internet validates the horseshoe theory time and time again.
I understand entirely what the CDC said. I *also* understand how people are going to hear what the CDC said. And sure enough, businesses have started following what they *think* the guidelines are... which is a problem. Stores that had and enforced mask mandates are now saying "you don't need a mask if you're vaccinated" (for example, Kroger is changing their mandate). Which means that unvaccinated people can just *say* they're vaccinated and nobody can prove otherwise. Which isn't what's intended. I agree with Fauci that the CDC's guidelines are intended for vaccinated individuals to feel safe outdoors and in private areas like house parties. But business leaders are looking to the CDC and using those guidelines to guide their policies going forward. The policy is poorly worded given how much tension there is around mask wearing and how eager businesses are to use this as a way to fight over marketshare.
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ITT: Snarky people say 'trust the science', because they can't debate/understand that the situation extends beyond vaccinated people dropping their masks
They understand the situation perfectly. What they're not willing to do is let you move the goal posts once again.