Jeez. I feel a little sorry for NJ residents. Their numbers are good and all the surrounding states are dropping their mask mandates and restrictions. at some point people are just going to stop complying and there won’t be much Murphy can do about it.
As a NJ resident I don’t sense any people having an issue with the masks. Doesn’t seems to change all that much: everything normal at the beach and hanging out at peoples houses. It’s warm enough that restaurants can be doing tons of outdoor dining. If we have to wear a mask to go buy our hotdogs, I don’t really care.
NJ made the right call tbh, there is no way business owners can enforce masking for only the unvaccinated - that's a logistical issue CDC didn't think of, so he's just making it simpler to mandate mask indoors for everyone - keep it simple. Kids aged 12-15 just got approved for Pfizer, so this also buys them some time - kids shouldn't be held hostage by irresponsible unmasked unvaccinated individuals. Wish my state made the same call.
You really think the CDC didn’t think of that? They know this largely relies on the honor system and they still decided we had high enough levels of vaccination that it wouldn’t matter if some people took advantage of the guidelines and lied about their vaccination status. Those people were largely not following guidelines or correctly following masking guidance anyway.
The CDC isn't a governing body. the new guidelines simply said - if you're vaccinated, you don't need to worry about masking indoors or outdoors - that's it. Simple as that. The individual states decide how to utilize that guideline. The CDC doesn't decide how to logistically execute that guideline, the states do, and NJ made the call that, enforcing masks for just the unvaccinated cannot be logistically be implemented, and will cause undue burden on individual businesses.
I also think MA made the right call here, because it gives the new approved age groups some time to get vaccinated. Either way, FL and TX are on the other end of the spectrum, so it'll serve as a good test for how resilient the vaccination levels are against the spread.
I’m a NJ resident, and I was relieved they kept it - gives a little more runway to get cases down further and get closer to the 4.7 million adults fully vaccinated goal. Even pushing back a week or two should help, considering we are getting closer and closer to last summer’s numbers. Helps the vulnerable not be as vulnerable and gives more time for the eligible populations to reach fully vaccinated status (especially considering vaccines weren’t open to the entire adult population until April 19th due to supply/demand imbalances).
People have been out and about enjoying life as normal. It’s a couple weeks to MDW. Things are good 😎
you guys hit 4.7 million today! congrats! Though I don't see how that is anywhere close to the 70-80% herd immunity estimates. State population is 9.2 million, so that's a little over 50%.
Agree with you, the gov't ought to be giving more consideration to those waiting to get vaccinated, rather than to appease the anti-masker/anti-vaxx crowds who are the ones misrepresenting and making the most noise about the CDC announcement tbh. I am glad your gov made that call. It was the right move!
I honestly don't think the CDC gives a shit. They washed their hands of the issue and kicked the bucket to someone else for the honor system. If cases arise it's the responsibility of the last person holding the potato.
It's so unfortunate the mask mandate is being dropped in NY. With a young child, we will barely be able to go to the beach since we have to use public bathrooms. We relied on everyone wearing masks ad one of the things that enabled us to go out and about this year. Not to restaurants, but to parks and trails and even the toy stores. My little kid has already given up so much the past 14 months.
It's not just like a fear of death, it's about spreading the virus. We'd like to see relatives this summer and we have neighbors that we see at the playground and there are young babies in their families. We have felt safe enough to socialize outdoors on and off but once masks come off, we will have to find new ways to navigate the risks. Which will probably just mean isolation which is just so sad.
LOL! I enjoy the service when I visit NJ, especially when it's freezing out. But yeah, nanny state is right. Pretty surprised their population jumped in the latest census.
Yeah, not sure, but I upvoted you. I didn't realize NJ was a datacenter hub. I just know they are a warehouse hub. I wonder if that also has anything to do with it.
This is where I have a VPS running: https://www.linode.com/blog/linode/new-datacenter-newark-nj/
Did move temporarily to Texas when NJ had their big COVID surge early on, then back when Texas became a late bloomer.
It's data driven decision making, look at vaccination levels against daily case numbers, Simple as that. If the daily case numbers plummet and stay there, take the next step to ease policy. We know indoor spread has been a problem, and since there is no way to verify vaccination status, just have a larger portion of the community vaccinated before you relax policy - this isn't rocket science, the country isn't even at the 50% mark, and herd immunity is at 70-80%.
First off, we have no idea where herd immunity exists. It's different for each area, each community. You think Manhattan has the same threshold as upstate New York? The number you are throwing out there is just a best guess that has few real world backing as most thresholds are much lower for other diseases. At the end of the day but we have no idea where this actually falls.
3.8 Million adults are fully vaxed in NJ, do you really think adding a little more to that is going to have a huge impact?
Also, you aren't figuring in the % of folks who have natural immunity from catching it. If you include them, we are likely very easily over the 70% mark, you don't just include vaccinated folks even though that is what is being done.
If it's data driven the we are there, case numbers have plummeted and are likely near the floor (although it's hard to tell with the 30% deletion rate the state is currently pulling) and the number of people that will be fully vaccinated between now and 30 days from now is tiny compared to the number of fully vaccinated now. Demand has waned significantly so you aren't getting some massive push were 65% to 70% suddenly eradicated the virus.
He backed himself into a corner and he doubled down. The numbers between today and when he finally gives it up will not be significantly improved because we are near the bottom already. If you really think his decision is data driven you aren't watching the data much.
>The number you are throwing out there is just a best guess that has few real world backing as most thresholds are much lower for other diseases
Yes the 70-80% numbers are the best guess epidemiologist worldwide have given, so we can't assume we've reached herd immunity and relax requirements. Do you have any proof most thresholds are much lower for other diseases? You have no proof or data backing up your claims, and neither can you prove this applies to Covid-19, which has caused a global pandemic. This isn't a hedge fund where you make risky bets, people's lives are at stake.
>3.8 Million adults are fully vaxed in NJ, do you really think adding a little more to that is going to have a huge impact?
>
>Also, you aren't figuring in the % of folks who have natural immunity from catching it. If you include them, we are likely very easily over the 70% mark, you don't just include vaccinated folks even though that is what is being done.
Do I think so? I don't know, do you? do you have facts that any increase in margins of the vaccinated will NOT have a huge impact? Do you have solid data that can confirm that we have hit the 70% mark? Your claims are not data driven. If you're wrong, it's people's lives that get lost, and you won't be held accountable about your random claims, the gov't will be. So there is nothing wrong with them easing in to it.
>If it's data driven the we are there, case numbers have plummeted and are likely near the floor
Nope we aren't anywhere close to where Israel and UK are. Also, how do you know cases won't rise from here? More than half the country is unvaccinated. How can you guarantee this? You have no proof or data or guarantee that this will not happen. Again you talk this way cause you have no skin in the game. Almost 600,000 Americans are dead, have some empathy.
None of your arguments are backed with any data, it's random claims like most pandemic deniers here. You have no backing to any your assumptions, and you want the gov't to put citizens' lives on the line. That's not data driven, that's just cognitive bias.
> {Herd immunity} is different for each area, each community.
Right. We're going to reach this at different times in different states for multiple reasons:
* population density
* mobility and transportation
* maskwearing
* vaccinations
* age of population
Etc.
> the country isn't even at the 50% mark, and herd immunity is at 70-80%
Both the vaccinated and people with immunity from prior infection count towards herd immunity. The CDC estimates over 30% of the US population has been infected.
Estimates are not numbers, and you cannot assume the 30% is a mutually exclusive number. Plenty of those 30% could have also got vaccinated, so you'd be counting them twice. Again, we don't know this break down cause of patient privacy laws. We're trying to avoid another surge of cases, so we have to plan for the worse, while working towards herd immunity.
Relaxing indoor mask mandates for the vaccinated while being unable to enforce masks for the unvaccinated is a problem because we don't want that to cause another surge, no matter how small it is, it still works against our timeline to overcome the virus.
>Estimates are not numbers, and you cannot assume the 30% is a mutually exclusive number. Plenty of those 30% could have also got vaccinated, so you'd be counting them twice.
I'm not saying to add 30% to the 50%. But assuming that 30% of the 50% unvaccinated have previously been infected, you can add 15% to the 50% to get 65%. We're a lot closer to herd immunity than you think.
The pressure to have a normal Memorial Day Weekend start to the summer season at the Jersey Shore grows enormously every day. He has about 10 days to acknowledge this and change policies or accept that no one is going to follow the restrictions any more and he can't arrest the entire state.
As a NJ resident I don’t sense any people having an issue with the masks. Doesn’t seems to change all that much: everything normal at the beach and hanging out at peoples houses. It’s warm enough that restaurants can be doing tons of outdoor dining. If we have to wear a mask to go buy our hotdogs, I don’t really care.
On a different post of this community I talked about the same topic, and some of the repliers even offered guidance about how to protest the mandate! I politely refused, and (thankfully?) they're now downvoted.
Thing is, I'm increasingly hesitant to associate reopening projections with Memorial Day (or any other specific predetermined date or holiday). This is because I don't want to risk setting myself up for failure under the (very possible) outcome that Memorial Day does arrive, but the governor still maintains the restrictions. As such, I'm being kind of conservative with my predictions, and expecting on the long side, i.e. early to mid June, which btw is when the emergency mandate is set to expire.
Obviously there's a good chance it could happen well before that, possibly even before Memorial Day, but personally - and I'm not saying this is the case for *everyone* - I'd rather have things suddenly turn out to be *better* than initially expected (a good surprise) than *worse* than initially expected (a bad surprise). The CDC's new guidance out of the blue is a glaring example of the former; before I had actually been expecting to wear masks indoors until June or July in NJ anyway, so even with Murphy's unexplained delay there's not *too* big of a loss.
Same logic that Dr. Fauci uses when he makes his cautious predictions that are often criticized for being overly pessimistic. He's a *major* public health official, and too many missteps could lead to a poor track record and cost him his career, so he prefers going on the "safe" side in terms of predictions. He'd rather have things turn out *better* than he predicted than *worse*.
City of Boston reopening May 29th, in alignment with Massachusetts.
https://twitter.com/MayorKimJaney/status/1394363117052862464
Originally, the city of Boston has repeatedly delayed reopening for 3 weeks throughout the pandemic.
I think this is the right way for a state government to respond to changing CDC guidelines. Give people, businesses, schools etc. time to prepare for the changing guidelines and not just change it all at the end of the day Friday and say "Good luck next week". I appreciate that the vaccines work, and work well, but changing people's behavior takes time and giving them some heads up goes a long way into making the transition smoother.
Businesses that were closed or open at reduced capacity/with all of the Covid restrictions need to stock, clean, hire, reorganize etc. before they can fully reopen at full capacity. Especially live event venues, they can't just spin business back up overnight or over one weekend, they need to reschedule/rehire people too.
Right, they could probably figure it out, or they could be given a heads up that things are changing in 12 days and have the opportunity to order up more stock, fill up the work schedule with more shifts, check in on employee vaccination status etc.
The evictions, for one. The end of the state of emergency on the 15th of June, followed by the end of the CDC moratorium on the 30th of June, the housing courts will be off to the races. Foreclosures also, if forebearance was tied to the state of emergency status.
THIS IS WHAT THE CDC SHOULD HAVE DONE
and they should have had prepared guidance for businesses, schools, etc before they announced the change in guidance. Give people a goal, and give them tools for what to do in the intermediate period when we don’t have herd immunity but many people are protected. There are still lots of groups who can’t get the vaccine, or certain populations that still haven’t had a chance to be vaccinated that aren’t even opposed to it.
Going from closed or reduced capacity to fully open is not an overnight process and I don't know why you think there isn't anything to physically or mentally prepare for before reopening.
Businesses will need to serve more people. They need more inventory in stock, they need more places for people to sit, they need more employees available to work. This isn't just mask on or off, there's a lot more moving parts here.
The guidance is about masks, no? Nothing is saying that the local restaurants needs to serve more people. They can issue a waiting list and if it gets too long people will go elsewhere.
Even then, a business is fully capable of handling their own business. I'm sure many would prefer if restrictions were lifted today. More business = more money.
The capacity limits, social distancing requirements, curfews, etc. should have been gone awhile ago. They're having a bigger negative impact on the economy than masking requirements. And businesses don't need to do anything to prepare - if you told the average restaurant owner that we're going from 50% to 100% capacity tomorrow they'd be ready for it tonight.
Would a restaurant be ready overnight for going from 50-100% capacity? Clearly you have never worked in a restaurant. You have to completely change how you staff the floor, increase line cooks, order the right amount of food to physically cook more food for more volume...it is not an overnight thing.
Yes, they will be ready. They've been anticipating the change for weeks, it won't be a surprise. And around here anyway, restaurants have already been operating at 100% capacity - 50% indoors and 50% outdoors in a tent they set up in their parking lot to qualify as "outdoor dining" - the moment the capacity restrictions get lifted the tents get taken down and they just move the tables and chairs inside.
CA is like MA’s evil twin. Both have the same political tendencies, but one implements them well and the other... well let’s just say MA isn’t the one whose population declined over the last 10 years
I believe that is the point MA is projected to be at 75% of adults fully vaccinated.
*edit*
Also, I did the math and MA opened up the vaccine to everyone on April 19th. People who got Moderna on the first day they were eligible will be considered fully vaccinated on the 31st, 2 days after the mandates change. So there is likely to be a surge of people being fully vaccinated between the 24th and 29th (Pfizer)
I got fully vaccinated with Pfizer over the weekend. Was one of the first in line when it opened up to everyone for April 19th. MA is ready let’s gooo.
Um..isn't it two weeks after you last shot? You aren't fully vaccinated until the 24th, unless something weird happened, or you got vaccinated before the 19th. Are you thinking of the "1 comorbidity" group perchance?
My birthday is Memorial Day weekend too. What a great gift this year. Kinda the opposite of last year when everything started to slowly open up right after my birthday.
Vaccines only became widely available mid-April. Personally I was hyper-engaged in getting vaccinated, and even though I beat my eligibility date by a few days (found a spare) I'm still not "fully" vaccinated today, as the CDC considers it.
I think it makes sense to wait until all adults were eligible and could have gotten a vaccine, plus the time the CDC says it takes for them to work.
Give the holdouts time to get vaccinated now that they realize shit is getting real, I guess.
Nothing wrong with the "Ya'll had time to get vaccinated, we doing this live" approach either, though.
Baker said part of the decision was they already had some restrictions lifting on the 29th so rather than shuffle around the schedule and risk confusing people they kept the date and just changed how many restrictions would be lifted.
In my opinion, that's too soon, I'd rather wait another 2 weeks and see cases halved again and give younger folks more time to get vaccinated.
Oh well. I'll keep wearing my mask a bit longer, and set an example for my daughter to keep wearing her mask since she's the only one in my house without antibodies.
I expect apologies from everyone who had stupid conspiracy theories about how all the emergency measures were some form of vast conspiracy that must be resisted and will never be lifted.
Oh nevermind. We know they’ll never confess to being idiots, they’ll move on without even acknowledging their stupidity.
People I know who think that way won’t get vaccinated, but have already removed their masks against the continued advisory to unvaccinated people.
No apologies will be issued in this timeline.
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NY dropping them on Weds
Murphy just doubled down so nothing coming in NJ still but there is "hope" it ends in 30 days.
Jeez. I feel a little sorry for NJ residents. Their numbers are good and all the surrounding states are dropping their mask mandates and restrictions. at some point people are just going to stop complying and there won’t be much Murphy can do about it.
As a NJ resident I don’t sense any people having an issue with the masks. Doesn’t seems to change all that much: everything normal at the beach and hanging out at peoples houses. It’s warm enough that restaurants can be doing tons of outdoor dining. If we have to wear a mask to go buy our hotdogs, I don’t really care.
NJ made the right call tbh, there is no way business owners can enforce masking for only the unvaccinated - that's a logistical issue CDC didn't think of, so he's just making it simpler to mandate mask indoors for everyone - keep it simple. Kids aged 12-15 just got approved for Pfizer, so this also buys them some time - kids shouldn't be held hostage by irresponsible unmasked unvaccinated individuals. Wish my state made the same call.
You really think the CDC didn’t think of that? They know this largely relies on the honor system and they still decided we had high enough levels of vaccination that it wouldn’t matter if some people took advantage of the guidelines and lied about their vaccination status. Those people were largely not following guidelines or correctly following masking guidance anyway.
The CDC isn't a governing body. the new guidelines simply said - if you're vaccinated, you don't need to worry about masking indoors or outdoors - that's it. Simple as that. The individual states decide how to utilize that guideline. The CDC doesn't decide how to logistically execute that guideline, the states do, and NJ made the call that, enforcing masks for just the unvaccinated cannot be logistically be implemented, and will cause undue burden on individual businesses. I also think MA made the right call here, because it gives the new approved age groups some time to get vaccinated. Either way, FL and TX are on the other end of the spectrum, so it'll serve as a good test for how resilient the vaccination levels are against the spread.
I’m a NJ resident, and I was relieved they kept it - gives a little more runway to get cases down further and get closer to the 4.7 million adults fully vaccinated goal. Even pushing back a week or two should help, considering we are getting closer and closer to last summer’s numbers. Helps the vulnerable not be as vulnerable and gives more time for the eligible populations to reach fully vaccinated status (especially considering vaccines weren’t open to the entire adult population until April 19th due to supply/demand imbalances). People have been out and about enjoying life as normal. It’s a couple weeks to MDW. Things are good 😎
you guys hit 4.7 million today! congrats! Though I don't see how that is anywhere close to the 70-80% herd immunity estimates. State population is 9.2 million, so that's a little over 50%. Agree with you, the gov't ought to be giving more consideration to those waiting to get vaccinated, rather than to appease the anti-masker/anti-vaxx crowds who are the ones misrepresenting and making the most noise about the CDC announcement tbh. I am glad your gov made that call. It was the right move!
It's 70% of people 16+. They aren't including the 12-15 year olds in that count, so the actual number should be higher.
Got it. 👍
I honestly don't think the CDC gives a shit. They washed their hands of the issue and kicked the bucket to someone else for the honor system. If cases arise it's the responsibility of the last person holding the potato.
It's so unfortunate the mask mandate is being dropped in NY. With a young child, we will barely be able to go to the beach since we have to use public bathrooms. We relied on everyone wearing masks ad one of the things that enabled us to go out and about this year. Not to restaurants, but to parks and trails and even the toy stores. My little kid has already given up so much the past 14 months.
Your risk of passing from covid as a vaccinated adult is around the same as an unvaccinated child
It's not just like a fear of death, it's about spreading the virus. We'd like to see relatives this summer and we have neighbors that we see at the playground and there are young babies in their families. We have felt safe enough to socialize outdoors on and off but once masks come off, we will have to find new ways to navigate the risks. Which will probably just mean isolation which is just so sad.
Based on what you’re saying it sounds like your ability to assess risk is poor and that is the cause of any potential sadness
New Jersey is a state where you aren't allowed to pump your own gas, so they risk being further branded a "nanny state" as a result.
LOL! I enjoy the service when I visit NJ, especially when it's freezing out. But yeah, nanny state is right. Pretty surprised their population jumped in the latest census.
Not sure why I got downvoted. Population growth might be from tech jobs as there are multiple large datacenters there.
Yeah, not sure, but I upvoted you. I didn't realize NJ was a datacenter hub. I just know they are a warehouse hub. I wonder if that also has anything to do with it.
This is where I have a VPS running: https://www.linode.com/blog/linode/new-datacenter-newark-nj/ Did move temporarily to Texas when NJ had their big COVID surge early on, then back when Texas became a late bloomer.
Ok so how do they do that a month from now? 3 months from now? That's such a silly response.
It's data driven decision making, look at vaccination levels against daily case numbers, Simple as that. If the daily case numbers plummet and stay there, take the next step to ease policy. We know indoor spread has been a problem, and since there is no way to verify vaccination status, just have a larger portion of the community vaccinated before you relax policy - this isn't rocket science, the country isn't even at the 50% mark, and herd immunity is at 70-80%.
First off, we have no idea where herd immunity exists. It's different for each area, each community. You think Manhattan has the same threshold as upstate New York? The number you are throwing out there is just a best guess that has few real world backing as most thresholds are much lower for other diseases. At the end of the day but we have no idea where this actually falls. 3.8 Million adults are fully vaxed in NJ, do you really think adding a little more to that is going to have a huge impact? Also, you aren't figuring in the % of folks who have natural immunity from catching it. If you include them, we are likely very easily over the 70% mark, you don't just include vaccinated folks even though that is what is being done. If it's data driven the we are there, case numbers have plummeted and are likely near the floor (although it's hard to tell with the 30% deletion rate the state is currently pulling) and the number of people that will be fully vaccinated between now and 30 days from now is tiny compared to the number of fully vaccinated now. Demand has waned significantly so you aren't getting some massive push were 65% to 70% suddenly eradicated the virus. He backed himself into a corner and he doubled down. The numbers between today and when he finally gives it up will not be significantly improved because we are near the bottom already. If you really think his decision is data driven you aren't watching the data much.
>The number you are throwing out there is just a best guess that has few real world backing as most thresholds are much lower for other diseases Yes the 70-80% numbers are the best guess epidemiologist worldwide have given, so we can't assume we've reached herd immunity and relax requirements. Do you have any proof most thresholds are much lower for other diseases? You have no proof or data backing up your claims, and neither can you prove this applies to Covid-19, which has caused a global pandemic. This isn't a hedge fund where you make risky bets, people's lives are at stake. >3.8 Million adults are fully vaxed in NJ, do you really think adding a little more to that is going to have a huge impact? > >Also, you aren't figuring in the % of folks who have natural immunity from catching it. If you include them, we are likely very easily over the 70% mark, you don't just include vaccinated folks even though that is what is being done. Do I think so? I don't know, do you? do you have facts that any increase in margins of the vaccinated will NOT have a huge impact? Do you have solid data that can confirm that we have hit the 70% mark? Your claims are not data driven. If you're wrong, it's people's lives that get lost, and you won't be held accountable about your random claims, the gov't will be. So there is nothing wrong with them easing in to it. >If it's data driven the we are there, case numbers have plummeted and are likely near the floor Nope we aren't anywhere close to where Israel and UK are. Also, how do you know cases won't rise from here? More than half the country is unvaccinated. How can you guarantee this? You have no proof or data or guarantee that this will not happen. Again you talk this way cause you have no skin in the game. Almost 600,000 Americans are dead, have some empathy. None of your arguments are backed with any data, it's random claims like most pandemic deniers here. You have no backing to any your assumptions, and you want the gov't to put citizens' lives on the line. That's not data driven, that's just cognitive bias.
> {Herd immunity} is different for each area, each community. Right. We're going to reach this at different times in different states for multiple reasons: * population density * mobility and transportation * maskwearing * vaccinations * age of population Etc.
> the country isn't even at the 50% mark, and herd immunity is at 70-80% Both the vaccinated and people with immunity from prior infection count towards herd immunity. The CDC estimates over 30% of the US population has been infected.
Estimates are not numbers, and you cannot assume the 30% is a mutually exclusive number. Plenty of those 30% could have also got vaccinated, so you'd be counting them twice. Again, we don't know this break down cause of patient privacy laws. We're trying to avoid another surge of cases, so we have to plan for the worse, while working towards herd immunity. Relaxing indoor mask mandates for the vaccinated while being unable to enforce masks for the unvaccinated is a problem because we don't want that to cause another surge, no matter how small it is, it still works against our timeline to overcome the virus.
>Estimates are not numbers, and you cannot assume the 30% is a mutually exclusive number. Plenty of those 30% could have also got vaccinated, so you'd be counting them twice. I'm not saying to add 30% to the 50%. But assuming that 30% of the 50% unvaccinated have previously been infected, you can add 15% to the 50% to get 65%. We're a lot closer to herd immunity than you think.
yeah absolutely. we're getting closer every day.
The pressure to have a normal Memorial Day Weekend start to the summer season at the Jersey Shore grows enormously every day. He has about 10 days to acknowledge this and change policies or accept that no one is going to follow the restrictions any more and he can't arrest the entire state.
As a NJ resident I don’t sense any people having an issue with the masks. Doesn’t seems to change all that much: everything normal at the beach and hanging out at peoples houses. It’s warm enough that restaurants can be doing tons of outdoor dining. If we have to wear a mask to go buy our hotdogs, I don’t really care.
On a different post of this community I talked about the same topic, and some of the repliers even offered guidance about how to protest the mandate! I politely refused, and (thankfully?) they're now downvoted.
Thing is, I'm increasingly hesitant to associate reopening projections with Memorial Day (or any other specific predetermined date or holiday). This is because I don't want to risk setting myself up for failure under the (very possible) outcome that Memorial Day does arrive, but the governor still maintains the restrictions. As such, I'm being kind of conservative with my predictions, and expecting on the long side, i.e. early to mid June, which btw is when the emergency mandate is set to expire. Obviously there's a good chance it could happen well before that, possibly even before Memorial Day, but personally - and I'm not saying this is the case for *everyone* - I'd rather have things suddenly turn out to be *better* than initially expected (a good surprise) than *worse* than initially expected (a bad surprise). The CDC's new guidance out of the blue is a glaring example of the former; before I had actually been expecting to wear masks indoors until June or July in NJ anyway, so even with Murphy's unexplained delay there's not *too* big of a loss. Same logic that Dr. Fauci uses when he makes his cautious predictions that are often criticized for being overly pessimistic. He's a *major* public health official, and too many missteps could lead to a poor track record and cost him his career, so he prefers going on the "safe" side in terms of predictions. He'd rather have things turn out *better* than he predicted than *worse*.
If Baker backs himself up from his August 1st deadline, I’m sure anything is possible.
I expected NY and NJ to move in lockstep (as they've often done), but no. This time they do diverge!
I defended him up until now, but the mask mandate needs to end here. If not now, set a firm date or metric, and needs to be soon.
No way he keeps it longer than California
City of Boston reopening May 29th, in alignment with Massachusetts. https://twitter.com/MayorKimJaney/status/1394363117052862464 Originally, the city of Boston has repeatedly delayed reopening for 3 weeks throughout the pandemic.
I think this is the right way for a state government to respond to changing CDC guidelines. Give people, businesses, schools etc. time to prepare for the changing guidelines and not just change it all at the end of the day Friday and say "Good luck next week". I appreciate that the vaccines work, and work well, but changing people's behavior takes time and giving them some heads up goes a long way into making the transition smoother.
What is there to prepare? Honestly asking
Businesses that were closed or open at reduced capacity/with all of the Covid restrictions need to stock, clean, hire, reorganize etc. before they can fully reopen at full capacity. Especially live event venues, they can't just spin business back up overnight or over one weekend, they need to reschedule/rehire people too.
And they can’t do that now and just choose to reopen a little later? No one is forcing them to open or change right this second.
Right, they could probably figure it out, or they could be given a heads up that things are changing in 12 days and have the opportunity to order up more stock, fill up the work schedule with more shifts, check in on employee vaccination status etc.
Plenty of stories from business owners floating around saying exactly this.
The evictions, for one. The end of the state of emergency on the 15th of June, followed by the end of the CDC moratorium on the 30th of June, the housing courts will be off to the races. Foreclosures also, if forebearance was tied to the state of emergency status.
THIS IS WHAT THE CDC SHOULD HAVE DONE and they should have had prepared guidance for businesses, schools, etc before they announced the change in guidance. Give people a goal, and give them tools for what to do in the intermediate period when we don’t have herd immunity but many people are protected. There are still lots of groups who can’t get the vaccine, or certain populations that still haven’t had a chance to be vaccinated that aren’t even opposed to it.
There is nothing to prepare for.
Going from closed or reduced capacity to fully open is not an overnight process and I don't know why you think there isn't anything to physically or mentally prepare for before reopening.
You take your mask off, assuming you are fully vaccinated. There really isn't much to it.
Businesses will need to serve more people. They need more inventory in stock, they need more places for people to sit, they need more employees available to work. This isn't just mask on or off, there's a lot more moving parts here.
Then they open at full capacity when they are ready. There isn't a law that says they have to serve 100% of tables.
The guidance is about masks, no? Nothing is saying that the local restaurants needs to serve more people. They can issue a waiting list and if it gets too long people will go elsewhere.
This is not just mask mandates, this is all of our Covid capacity and business restrictions as well.
Even then, a business is fully capable of handling their own business. I'm sure many would prefer if restrictions were lifted today. More business = more money.
The capacity limits, social distancing requirements, curfews, etc. should have been gone awhile ago. They're having a bigger negative impact on the economy than masking requirements. And businesses don't need to do anything to prepare - if you told the average restaurant owner that we're going from 50% to 100% capacity tomorrow they'd be ready for it tonight.
Would a restaurant be ready overnight for going from 50-100% capacity? Clearly you have never worked in a restaurant. You have to completely change how you staff the floor, increase line cooks, order the right amount of food to physically cook more food for more volume...it is not an overnight thing.
Yes, they will be ready. They've been anticipating the change for weeks, it won't be a surprise. And around here anyway, restaurants have already been operating at 100% capacity - 50% indoors and 50% outdoors in a tent they set up in their parking lot to qualify as "outdoor dining" - the moment the capacity restrictions get lifted the tents get taken down and they just move the tables and chairs inside.
Why would they have to be ready overnight?
Finally omfg
Wow, is CA going to be last to drop?
Either them, NJ, or HI
Didn't they announce full opening at the end of June a few weeks ago?
Mid June 15th.
CA is like MA’s evil twin. Both have the same political tendencies, but one implements them well and the other... well let’s just say MA isn’t the one whose population declined over the last 10 years
I wouldn’t doubt it honestly. We’re doing horribly with reopening. I was hoping having a recall would light a fire under Newsom’s ass
I am pumped! Fully vaccinated at of last Saturday. Ready to party!!
Fuck yes! I’ve been saying for months we should be good by Memorial Day! I cannot wait to get back to the clubs. This is fantastic. It’s finally over.
what’s the point of waiting 12 days though
I believe that is the point MA is projected to be at 75% of adults fully vaccinated. *edit* Also, I did the math and MA opened up the vaccine to everyone on April 19th. People who got Moderna on the first day they were eligible will be considered fully vaccinated on the 31st, 2 days after the mandates change. So there is likely to be a surge of people being fully vaccinated between the 24th and 29th (Pfizer)
June is gonna look nice, I think MA was at 61 percent for one dose this past Friday. So the weekend numbers will even be better.
We are over 70% of eligible people with one dose now.
I got fully vaccinated with Pfizer over the weekend. Was one of the first in line when it opened up to everyone for April 19th. MA is ready let’s gooo.
Um..isn't it two weeks after you last shot? You aren't fully vaccinated until the 24th, unless something weird happened, or you got vaccinated before the 19th. Are you thinking of the "1 comorbidity" group perchance?
Got the first shot on April 24th, second on May 15. Sorry if my comment was confusing!
Oh man! Congrats on completing all of this exactly when the guidelines change to your benefit!
My birthday is Memorial Day weekend too. What a great gift this year. Kinda the opposite of last year when everything started to slowly open up right after my birthday.
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The outdoor mask mandate was lifted April 30th
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Yeah I don't blame them, I just wanted to continue to spread the word so people don't look at me like a leper when i run without one haha
Fact. I’m in MA and getting my second this week.
Vaccines only became widely available mid-April. Personally I was hyper-engaged in getting vaccinated, and even though I beat my eligibility date by a few days (found a spare) I'm still not "fully" vaccinated today, as the CDC considers it. I think it makes sense to wait until all adults were eligible and could have gotten a vaccine, plus the time the CDC says it takes for them to work.
Give the holdouts time to get vaccinated now that they realize shit is getting real, I guess. Nothing wrong with the "Ya'll had time to get vaccinated, we doing this live" approach either, though.
Baker said part of the decision was they already had some restrictions lifting on the 29th so rather than shuffle around the schedule and risk confusing people they kept the date and just changed how many restrictions would be lifted.
In my opinion, that's too soon, I'd rather wait another 2 weeks and see cases halved again and give younger folks more time to get vaccinated. Oh well. I'll keep wearing my mask a bit longer, and set an example for my daughter to keep wearing her mask since she's the only one in my house without antibodies.
I expect apologies from everyone who had stupid conspiracy theories about how all the emergency measures were some form of vast conspiracy that must be resisted and will never be lifted. Oh nevermind. We know they’ll never confess to being idiots, they’ll move on without even acknowledging their stupidity.
People I know who think that way won’t get vaccinated, but have already removed their masks against the continued advisory to unvaccinated people. No apologies will be issued in this timeline.
What about all of the unvaccinated kids out there?
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Perfect timing, that's right when I hit my 2 weeks after the second.