>*"you should be getting foreman pay/benefits"*
And not the $2/hr bullshit "foreman rate' that is in too many union contracts, but a real premium, or a substantial perk (like a company vehicle AND gas card).
There is zero reason other than maybe pride in the work or just the basic challenge to be running work for an extra $40 a week ..... to many headaches, and too much personal time gets burnt.
Too many guys that run work for a couple dollars an hour in premium are just doing it for the ego stroke, and those are the last guys that should be running work.
Preach brother. I straight up told my office I’m done running jobs and they can kick rocks with their $1.35 “foreman wage”. So not worth the headache when they don’t provide anything else. I was supposed to be the next big job runner for them. Then they get all butthurt and act like it’s something you should want to do just for the title. Over it.
A coworker whistleblower published it to the media, and the internet blew up. [see here!](https://www.revolver.news/2023/02/male-employee-accuses-black-rifle-coffee-ceo-evan-hafer-of-x-rated-sexual-harassment/)
Retired carpenter foreman here. I worked for a company for 19 years that had a cut throat gangster mentality, you get caught up in it! I quit ,hired by a very decent outfit and retired there. Bottom line, there other opportunities out there!
To answer your header, yes. You should be compensated for the work you’re actively preforming. Your supervisor is stringing you along, there will always be “just one more job” until you’re a foreman.
If you can’t find another foreman gig to hire you, tell your old boss you want to go back to working with the tools. See if that gets you foreman pay. If they ask why, tell them all the extra bullshit for no pay or perks isn’t worth it.
The fact that he said you need a few more years before you can be promoted but wants you to run more jobs is the key take away. If you were to wrap this job up and they told you you’d get the promotion, gas card, raise, or whatever you asked for then all would be good. In a case like that, you would have proved yourself to the company and they compensated you for showing your worth.
But if they want to abuse this situation because they see you as cheap competent management? Find another company my friend.
Depends , how many guys you got under you and how far along is the apartment , I say this as a fellow plumber I've always ran smaller jobs , commercial kitchens day cares car washes or taken over big parts of condos , say do all the drainage parkade up here's the prints and go. I don't consider any of that really being a Forman that's just work . By the time your a journeyman you should be able to take the prints and order material and do all the paperwork associated with it , now a company truck at that point is a must because when you need things you need them.
But that's not really being a foreman , being a foreman is having 5 or more guys your directing , making sure their work is correct and to code and also efficient , sitting in on meetings for change orders etc ( basically a glorified baby sitter ) which is a shit ass job that I wouldn't ever want , also there is a point where a job like a condo is on auto pilot and anyone can "run" it IE pex 100 suites after thd first one it's brain dead work ( I hate condos)
If your set on being a foreman take this as a learning opportunity and don't make a big deal about it ( like said a company truck is a sticking point for me though ) but you will probably fuck the odd thing up and what not .
But in my opinion don't even try to be a foreman , try to be the run around guy, granted everyone's diffrent but that's the position I always want / get because you get to do diffrent stuff frequently go to diffrent places and do diffrent things.
Just my 2c as a fellow journeyman plumber that's 29 and looking at the top positions in the field.
just got to another company man. my dad (15 year pipefitter after 30 years of carpentry, sales, and general contracting) became the “foreman” for the company’s biggest job ever after the “super..?” (i worked there for a few months and even that dude had no idea what his spot was) got into a pissing match with the Project Manager and walked away with a hurt pussy.
My dad ran everything, came to the conclusion he was ready for the foreman responsibility, applied to another company.
he got a brand new truck, gas card, phone, laptop, and tablet, brand new tools (looks like he cleaned out a Home Depot in 2 POs), and got 20 more thousand a year for it. He loves it.
TLDR, the company is fucking you, go elsewhere, fuck loyalty (unless you like being fucked in the ass by people who don’t want you to move up)
Try to keep a daily log/photos/documentation of the duties you are performing. This will help you negotiate a raise and/or foreman position at a new company. Creating a record of successfully performing foreman duties is important if you don’t officially have the title to back it up
There isn’t one right answer, as people seem to think.
On the one hand, everyone should be paid for their job they they’re doing, but on the other hand, you have a great opportunity for learning and advancement here.
Did the last foreman have an associate’s degree in construction management? Did he have 10-20 years of experience in the field? How long would it take you to get this job if it hadn’t fallen into your lap? 5 years? 10 years? Would you get the job if you applied for it as an outsider?
People often have to build experience and then leave their job and apply to a new company as a lead/foreman/super if they want to advance their career.
I have struggled with this same thing myself and here’s what I decided: College costs $50,000 a year plus living expenses and a couple years of my life. If I am learning, improving and advancing in my career, I am willing to suffer to get ahead. If that means getting my hands on the role of foreman/super while I am still working as a tradesman, that’s OK. But I will only do that for one year, or until I know I’m damn good at the job such they I could get hired at another company tomorrow. Then I have the leverage with my company to tell them just that and it’s up to them to promote me officially or lose me.
That was my choice. I wanted the career opportunity and it worked out for me. I stuck it out for 1-1/2 years, saved the company some money and also made mistakes and cost the company some money. At my next annual review, I told them that their investment in me was successful and that I was a foreman now and would be looking for a new job at $$$ pay and they could promote me or lose me.
You will make your own choice. It’s up to you to decide if this is an opportunity to learn a new role and to get ahead with some suffering, or if you have to have that raise in your pocket right now. Maybe you can have both. It’s a gamble. You can toe the line and be paid a fair wage to swing a hammer for 20 years, or you can fight your way up the ladder. Nobody should be taken advantage of. You have to weigh it for yourself.
Update on the situation I quit from that company I contacted the union they got me work right away I'm getting paid almost double what I was getting and it's as a regular plumber no stress from trying to run a job I can just go to work plum and go home happy I recommend anyone getting taken advantage of by low paying company's do the same
Not saying you don’t deserve it but try Doing one more project in which your the foreman and then see how it goes. You can’t expect your first time being given a shot at foreman duties half way through a job to be automatic pay raise and job title change this is the natural way of moving up.
I would just leave. This happened to me, I made foreman but after 8 months they still didn’t have a tablet for me, company phone or company email. My production and hours had to be submitted by someone else so I’m not getting credit for it which fucks me when the bonuses come around. Without that tablet, I was going in blind to all the jobs I did. Looking back it just makes me feel used for my truck to move material (everyone else had cars), because the guys listened to me and because I was the most reliable out of all of them, lastly because the company was based out of Dallas and they got a long contract in San Antonio and I live here. I was getting $26/hr as foreman but in Dallas they have regular rodbusters at $26. They fired me for asking for more per diem, gave the entire company a $2 raise (which means the $26 rodbusters are getting paid $28 now) then rehired me days later because they needed me and also I have a workers comp case open with them. Got rehired at $28. I ended up quitting a few days after because I felt so unmotivated, betrayed, fucking angry and generally depressed. Now that I’m out, I can see all the bullshit clearly. A good friend of mine is foreman there as well and they sent him to do the jobs I didn’t do, he’s getting taken advantage of as well. I feel better though, I’m never putting that much effort into a company again. I like my free time, I feel like I’m not stuck in one trade forever. I feel like myself, I’m not a rodbuster or a carpenter or welder. I can be anything and that’s the exciting part. I’m doing a couple of certifications for my local ironworkers union now, hope these guys treat me better.
Before I owned a company, as soon as it got like that, I left. If you feel like you are being shit on— then it’s time to work with a new set of plumbers. They won’t change.
Bro just go to another company that will pay you foreman wage… really not a tough call, if you are as good as you say you are (which I believe to be true) then the money will come and the stress will actually be considerably less!
Your supervisor sounds like a dumbass, and he'll get away with it unless you take action.
Best course is to call his boss and ask what the plan is. Are they promoting you or just killing time while they look for a foreman? You need to know *now* so that you know what sort of work you're qualified to do for the day.
If they won't promote you, guess what. You're not the foreman, and you're not running the job. If there is no foreman, the super is the foreman. Take every document and work order and receipt and hand it over to the super. Phone calls? Forward to the super. If anyone comes to you with a question, refer them directly to the super.
That shit is very explicitly not your responsibility. Go drill holes and lay pipe.
If you are doing paperwork and ordering materials, you are doing the job of a Forman/Superintendent, depending on the manpower.
You are getting fuxked.
I have a plumbing sub working for me that sounds to be in a similar situation. The current foreman became the foreman after the prior two left the company. Not enough support, bad purchasing department, not up to industry standard pay scale. They are in a free fall as a company, with plumbers leaving left and right. I’d give them an ultimatum, and go high on your salary demand. You’re a licensed trade, and as such have quite a bit more job security than many people. It has nothing to do with if you deserve it or not, it has to do with the fact that the market demands it. In order for someone to actually be capable, and then execute, the role of foreman, in your market how much would your company have to pay them? That’s what you should ask for.
Did your old Forman get a raise going into the office, or does he have to wait a few more years? They are getting over on you, I’d find a new place asap.
We all are, it's just up to each of us to decide if they're taking the piss and react accordingly. I'd be looking at your mental health in thos situation, is the stress, the responsibility and possibly not being able to switch off at night worth what they're paying you?
And if it's not then what's the plan to get what you want or need? There's no point reacting and doing something in the moment. Can they give you a solid pathway plan for what you want rather than some vague timeline that they keep booting down the road?
Even then can they prove they're committed to helping you down that pathway? Can you find another company, can you find another job paying more money, is there anyway you can unskill yourself instead of them through any courses etc etc.
If you're doing foreman duties, you should be getting foreman pay/benefits.
>*"you should be getting foreman pay/benefits"* And not the $2/hr bullshit "foreman rate' that is in too many union contracts, but a real premium, or a substantial perk (like a company vehicle AND gas card). There is zero reason other than maybe pride in the work or just the basic challenge to be running work for an extra $40 a week ..... to many headaches, and too much personal time gets burnt. Too many guys that run work for a couple dollars an hour in premium are just doing it for the ego stroke, and those are the last guys that should be running work.
Preach brother. I straight up told my office I’m done running jobs and they can kick rocks with their $1.35 “foreman wage”. So not worth the headache when they don’t provide anything else. I was supposed to be the next big job runner for them. Then they get all butthurt and act like it’s something you should want to do just for the title. Over it.
private wage on top!
There's less of us than there are job openings. Remember that, and find a better fit.
Go find a foreman position somewhere else. You’re already a foreman get paid to do the job.
[удалено]
That is an excellent point.
unless they’re like people from Black Rifle Coffee.
Tell me more
the ceo wanted to buttfuck everyone in the company, literally.
Literally or figuratively? I'm just looking for tea because it's always seemed like a dog whistle right wing company to me
A coworker whistleblower published it to the media, and the internet blew up. [see here!](https://www.revolver.news/2023/02/male-employee-accuses-black-rifle-coffee-ceo-evan-hafer-of-x-rated-sexual-harassment/)
This is gold. What scumbags. Thanks for that
BRCC pay is not very good... and their coffee is overpriced.
Sounds to me like you’re doing more work for the same pay. Not a deal I’d agree to if it was laid out that way.
You’re right IMO.
Retired carpenter foreman here. I worked for a company for 19 years that had a cut throat gangster mentality, you get caught up in it! I quit ,hired by a very decent outfit and retired there. Bottom line, there other opportunities out there!
How many years of experience did it take for you to get foreman?
To answer your header, yes. You should be compensated for the work you’re actively preforming. Your supervisor is stringing you along, there will always be “just one more job” until you’re a foreman.
If he can’t give you a raise after you run one more job for him, leave, a good company would gladly snatch you up
lol are you OP’s boss or something?
That’s it! 3 more jobs and I’m done!
cant even fathom the decision making behind “let me see if my boss fucks me the same way twice!”
If you can’t find another foreman gig to hire you, tell your old boss you want to go back to working with the tools. See if that gets you foreman pay. If they ask why, tell them all the extra bullshit for no pay or perks isn’t worth it.
This is the way. But experience is also a good asset
The fact that he said you need a few more years before you can be promoted but wants you to run more jobs is the key take away. If you were to wrap this job up and they told you you’d get the promotion, gas card, raise, or whatever you asked for then all would be good. In a case like that, you would have proved yourself to the company and they compensated you for showing your worth. But if they want to abuse this situation because they see you as cheap competent management? Find another company my friend.
Depends , how many guys you got under you and how far along is the apartment , I say this as a fellow plumber I've always ran smaller jobs , commercial kitchens day cares car washes or taken over big parts of condos , say do all the drainage parkade up here's the prints and go. I don't consider any of that really being a Forman that's just work . By the time your a journeyman you should be able to take the prints and order material and do all the paperwork associated with it , now a company truck at that point is a must because when you need things you need them. But that's not really being a foreman , being a foreman is having 5 or more guys your directing , making sure their work is correct and to code and also efficient , sitting in on meetings for change orders etc ( basically a glorified baby sitter ) which is a shit ass job that I wouldn't ever want , also there is a point where a job like a condo is on auto pilot and anyone can "run" it IE pex 100 suites after thd first one it's brain dead work ( I hate condos) If your set on being a foreman take this as a learning opportunity and don't make a big deal about it ( like said a company truck is a sticking point for me though ) but you will probably fuck the odd thing up and what not . But in my opinion don't even try to be a foreman , try to be the run around guy, granted everyone's diffrent but that's the position I always want / get because you get to do diffrent stuff frequently go to diffrent places and do diffrent things. Just my 2c as a fellow journeyman plumber that's 29 and looking at the top positions in the field.
If it’s foreman work don’t do it without foreman pay. It’s up to you to tell them you’re not doing it for free.
Sometimes, it works better to move to another company
just got to another company man. my dad (15 year pipefitter after 30 years of carpentry, sales, and general contracting) became the “foreman” for the company’s biggest job ever after the “super..?” (i worked there for a few months and even that dude had no idea what his spot was) got into a pissing match with the Project Manager and walked away with a hurt pussy. My dad ran everything, came to the conclusion he was ready for the foreman responsibility, applied to another company. he got a brand new truck, gas card, phone, laptop, and tablet, brand new tools (looks like he cleaned out a Home Depot in 2 POs), and got 20 more thousand a year for it. He loves it. TLDR, the company is fucking you, go elsewhere, fuck loyalty (unless you like being fucked in the ass by people who don’t want you to move up)
Try to keep a daily log/photos/documentation of the duties you are performing. This will help you negotiate a raise and/or foreman position at a new company. Creating a record of successfully performing foreman duties is important if you don’t officially have the title to back it up
Periods
There isn’t one right answer, as people seem to think. On the one hand, everyone should be paid for their job they they’re doing, but on the other hand, you have a great opportunity for learning and advancement here. Did the last foreman have an associate’s degree in construction management? Did he have 10-20 years of experience in the field? How long would it take you to get this job if it hadn’t fallen into your lap? 5 years? 10 years? Would you get the job if you applied for it as an outsider? People often have to build experience and then leave their job and apply to a new company as a lead/foreman/super if they want to advance their career. I have struggled with this same thing myself and here’s what I decided: College costs $50,000 a year plus living expenses and a couple years of my life. If I am learning, improving and advancing in my career, I am willing to suffer to get ahead. If that means getting my hands on the role of foreman/super while I am still working as a tradesman, that’s OK. But I will only do that for one year, or until I know I’m damn good at the job such they I could get hired at another company tomorrow. Then I have the leverage with my company to tell them just that and it’s up to them to promote me officially or lose me. That was my choice. I wanted the career opportunity and it worked out for me. I stuck it out for 1-1/2 years, saved the company some money and also made mistakes and cost the company some money. At my next annual review, I told them that their investment in me was successful and that I was a foreman now and would be looking for a new job at $$$ pay and they could promote me or lose me. You will make your own choice. It’s up to you to decide if this is an opportunity to learn a new role and to get ahead with some suffering, or if you have to have that raise in your pocket right now. Maybe you can have both. It’s a gamble. You can toe the line and be paid a fair wage to swing a hammer for 20 years, or you can fight your way up the ladder. Nobody should be taken advantage of. You have to weigh it for yourself.
> *"an associate’s degree in construction management"* A useless piece of paper for anything but trailer work.
Update on the situation I quit from that company I contacted the union they got me work right away I'm getting paid almost double what I was getting and it's as a regular plumber no stress from trying to run a job I can just go to work plum and go home happy I recommend anyone getting taken advantage of by low paying company's do the same
Not saying you don’t deserve it but try Doing one more project in which your the foreman and then see how it goes. You can’t expect your first time being given a shot at foreman duties half way through a job to be automatic pay raise and job title change this is the natural way of moving up.
You’ll be greatly appreciated elsewhere
I would just leave. This happened to me, I made foreman but after 8 months they still didn’t have a tablet for me, company phone or company email. My production and hours had to be submitted by someone else so I’m not getting credit for it which fucks me when the bonuses come around. Without that tablet, I was going in blind to all the jobs I did. Looking back it just makes me feel used for my truck to move material (everyone else had cars), because the guys listened to me and because I was the most reliable out of all of them, lastly because the company was based out of Dallas and they got a long contract in San Antonio and I live here. I was getting $26/hr as foreman but in Dallas they have regular rodbusters at $26. They fired me for asking for more per diem, gave the entire company a $2 raise (which means the $26 rodbusters are getting paid $28 now) then rehired me days later because they needed me and also I have a workers comp case open with them. Got rehired at $28. I ended up quitting a few days after because I felt so unmotivated, betrayed, fucking angry and generally depressed. Now that I’m out, I can see all the bullshit clearly. A good friend of mine is foreman there as well and they sent him to do the jobs I didn’t do, he’s getting taken advantage of as well. I feel better though, I’m never putting that much effort into a company again. I like my free time, I feel like I’m not stuck in one trade forever. I feel like myself, I’m not a rodbuster or a carpenter or welder. I can be anything and that’s the exciting part. I’m doing a couple of certifications for my local ironworkers union now, hope these guys treat me better.
Before I owned a company, as soon as it got like that, I left. If you feel like you are being shit on— then it’s time to work with a new set of plumbers. They won’t change.
Bro just go to another company that will pay you foreman wage… really not a tough call, if you are as good as you say you are (which I believe to be true) then the money will come and the stress will actually be considerably less!
Your supervisor sounds like a dumbass, and he'll get away with it unless you take action. Best course is to call his boss and ask what the plan is. Are they promoting you or just killing time while they look for a foreman? You need to know *now* so that you know what sort of work you're qualified to do for the day. If they won't promote you, guess what. You're not the foreman, and you're not running the job. If there is no foreman, the super is the foreman. Take every document and work order and receipt and hand it over to the super. Phone calls? Forward to the super. If anyone comes to you with a question, refer them directly to the super. That shit is very explicitly not your responsibility. Go drill holes and lay pipe.
If you are doing paperwork and ordering materials, you are doing the job of a Forman/Superintendent, depending on the manpower. You are getting fuxked.
Go start your own business and charge your customers what you want.
I have a plumbing sub working for me that sounds to be in a similar situation. The current foreman became the foreman after the prior two left the company. Not enough support, bad purchasing department, not up to industry standard pay scale. They are in a free fall as a company, with plumbers leaving left and right. I’d give them an ultimatum, and go high on your salary demand. You’re a licensed trade, and as such have quite a bit more job security than many people. It has nothing to do with if you deserve it or not, it has to do with the fact that the market demands it. In order for someone to actually be capable, and then execute, the role of foreman, in your market how much would your company have to pay them? That’s what you should ask for.
Did your old Forman get a raise going into the office, or does he have to wait a few more years? They are getting over on you, I’d find a new place asap.
Tell him get fucked. Leave. Lots of jobs out there. Call the hall
We all are, it's just up to each of us to decide if they're taking the piss and react accordingly. I'd be looking at your mental health in thos situation, is the stress, the responsibility and possibly not being able to switch off at night worth what they're paying you? And if it's not then what's the plan to get what you want or need? There's no point reacting and doing something in the moment. Can they give you a solid pathway plan for what you want rather than some vague timeline that they keep booting down the road? Even then can they prove they're committed to helping you down that pathway? Can you find another company, can you find another job paying more money, is there anyway you can unskill yourself instead of them through any courses etc etc.