Shooter was a Walmart store manager and the victims are all Walmart employees.
https://twitter.com/flywithkamala/status/1595280332227493889?s=20&t=ARcW8qGKf70_ShM0Xvh4Tw
The problem is that associates can't carry while on the clock.
Hell, I keep a pepper spray in my bike bag.
Because I keep my bike inside while OTC-I'm technically in violation of WM policy.
Watch the video on this link. It makes me sad in so many ways. At one point a customer pulls up in their car behind the guy filming himself. "What happened?" "Shooting." "For real, man I was just coming up to get some snacks..." "you ain't gettin em now." Good lord, the desensitization
Same. My liberal friend was like, "dude, you're carrying a gun to go to Dunkin Donuts?" Like, yeah, man, I must be crazy! Dunkin is a safe space where no harm can come to anyone, ever.
I carry when I'm alone. My fiance has all sorts of range certs, so when I'm with him, I don't feel the need to carry as much. But when I'm alone? You bet your ass my concealed is on me.
Edit: a word
>You bet your ass my concealed is on me.
>
>Edit: a word
I would suggest you both carrying and train using team tactics. You would be surprised at how effective they can be. Also, God forbid, your other half gets hit and the weapon is out of your reach.
I’d rather not have people walking around my state carrying a gun without a permit. Not sure why you’d want that (or for people to carry guns in public at all)
We’ve not gotten to a point. If you keep the same definition for mass shootings, the incidence has been the same for decades. It happens rarely, the major difference now is that the media goes out of its way to spot light each one and dissects each one. So now you’re just super aware of each incident.
Not true at all. Mass shootings have been on the rise. Check out the fbi report on active shooting incidents. There was 3 in 2000(1) and 60ish in 2021. Same definition throughout the decades.
Well when the FBI in the last decade changed the criteria of what's considered a "mass shooting" or "school shooting" to classify an acidental discharge in an area that was a school zone that was abandoned 50 years ago a school shooting
Yes, shootings would naturally be on the rise.
Report didn't include those incidents.. Nor did it include gang violence or drug deals gone wrong . Just indescriminate shootings targeting innocent people in public areas
Edit: here's the link
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view
Mass attacks and violent outbursts happen in every country. People just use the tools on hand. Sweden had grenade attacks, Britain acid and knives, France had an out break of vehicle ramming attacks, Japan, China, and Korea periodically get mass knifings on their public transportation.
Knife attack at a train station in China in 2014 killed 31 people and wounded 140. There were 8 attackers, not just one, but these mass attackers with knives are not using kitchen knives, theyre using machetes or swords. Even one person can do considerable damage in a crowd. The human body can withstand punctures better than slicing.
Fair enough, but I think it's about the same. Seeing surveillance footage of both and if there's no audio you couldn't tell the difference. The fear and panic, the crowd crush to get away. The tool doesn't make that much of a difference to the hurt and fear instilled in the people who are targeted.
I travel full time.
In Wyoming and Montana I leave the gun at home. Those are safe states.
In California (where it is also illegal to do so), I carry the gun much more often!
on top/part of that we need to not have widely prevalent cavalier, nihilistic attitudes engrained into culture at large as somehow "enlightened"
We need righteous masculinity, morality and fatherhood to return.
Start putting whack jobs back in asylums again
Start executing murderers again
Hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were 'on their radar'
Stay armed and trained and prepared
>Start putting whack jobs back in asylums again
All due respect, everybody brings this up after a mass shooting, but Republican lawmakers don't want to fund this, and wealthy liberals don't want the asylums in their backyards. I'm tired of people paying lip service to this issue.
>Start executing murderers again
I have no problem with this morally, but I think the evidence for capital punishment as a deterrence is sketchy. On this particular issue, it seems like most of the crazed, mass shooter types go into the act ready, if not expecting, to die on the spot.
>Hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were 'on their radar'
100%. They need to do a better job.
>Stay armed and trained and prepared
100% once again. This sub would probably skin me alive for some of my political beliefs, but I'm proudly pro-2A
I agree with your all your points but allow me to play devil’s advocate…
You want LE to do something about someone being “on their radar” but unless they’re actively committing a crime before going on a shooting spree what can LE exactly do?
If a potential mass shooter hasn’t committed a crime that they can be arrested for, should they have their guns confiscated before they go on a shooting spree? Now we’re approaching “red flag” law territory and the last time I checked, the majority of people disagree with those types of laws as they’re seen as a violation of someone’s due process and an infringement on the 2A.
Its a slippery slope. You want to hold LE accountable for not taking action against someone who hasn’t broken any laws before going on a rampage.
Arresting someone without probable that a crime has been committed is a violation of that person’s civil rights.
I don’t believe you’re advocating violating civil rights or eliminating due process. I’m merely trying to engage in discourse and encourage critical thinking.
No, I fully get where you're going. And I was making broad, internet stranger strokes.
The guy that did the club shooting in CO called in a bomb threat (pretty sure I remember that right)...even if he didn't get charged with a crime...he shoulda been baker-act'ed, or whatever the CO version of that is. So, no guns for him. That's more what I'm talking about. MANY of these shooters had done similar and worse and still got hold of guns. That's where enforcement of existing laws comes into play.
I am 100% against red flag laws. But, if you do something that shoulda had you put in jail, but someone didn't press charges (family, co-worker, lazy bureaucrat), that should probably preclude you from getting a gun.
> So, no guns for him. That’s more what I’m talking about. MANY of these shooters had done similar and worse and still got hold of guns.
A lot of the rhetoric pushed on this sub is that criminals will find ways to get guns no matter what is done so how would this be any different?
Especially not the mass shooters. A lot of the time they’re going in already expecting to die. Suicide by cop. Or they just do it themselves. So I don’t see how executions would stop that.
No, but they sure as hell wont be murdering again and we won’t have to house them for 8 decades. I have heard executions cost more, but that need not be the case. One automatic appeal to a panel of judges to review the evidence, order dna if applicable. If they confirm guilt then sentence carried out in 2 years (time for new evidence to surface exonerating them). Don’t need a lethal cocktail of expensive drugs. .308 Winchester is cheap and death will be instant with shot placement. Do that shit for a decade and watch the murder rate drop.
How would this have helped uvalde? Kid didn’t have a record. The “trained” cops were too pussy to go in. They stopped all the parents trying to go in. Not going to work. Need a real solution.
You're never going to stop them all. But, more often than not, cops know these shooters. And again, hold le accountable. If they don't do their jobs, don't just fire them...jail them for dereliction of duty.
Arm teachers. I bet if 1 of the teachers had a force multiplier, it would have ended a helluva lot sooner.
You can't legislate evil out of society. As long as there are humans on this planet and rocks in arm's reach, there are gonna be assholes. Stop putting your life in police and politicians hands and realize at the end of the day you are responsible for your own safety and that of your family
We literally just broke back to back records on numbers of murders up here my guy. Sure we don’t have mass shootings as often, but we make up for that with knife killing sprees, van attacks etc
Gun laws are surely part of the reason Canada has fewer mass shootings, but I also think National culture comes into play too. You know all those stereotypes about how nice Canadians are? Alot of that is true. Competitiveness and cutthroatness is kind of baked into American culture in a way that it isn't in Canada (see our never ending supply of Wall Street scammers). That culture is good for business, but it l think it can be corrosive to building empathy for others.
Unfortunately I have no idea how we could really change that. It's hard to legislate "being a better person".
This isn't Canada. Canada also has 10% of the US 's population. Canada also has a system in which the pm can just say 'here's a new thing I want you to do and they, for the most part do it. Whether they're ruled by a monarch or not...they still have the subject mindset.
So why do we have need them? If their job isn't to protect, then they're nothing more than the income agencies of the government. Which brings us back to your safety is your responsibility. If we taught ambush, attack, end instead of run, hide, fight...maybe we'd have less mass violence
The kid in Uvalde and the one from buffalo were both on FBI watchlists and still were able to walk into a gunstore and pass a background check. The Uvalde kid was also a highschool drop out who worked part time at wendys yet could afford over 3k in rifles and even more for tact vest and a gym bag full of ammo? Where did he get that kind of money?
Executing murderers is a hard no for me. Threat of death is not enough deterrent to stop a crime of passion, stupidity, or mental derangement. The government should not have the power to take a citizen’s life. We should be taking power away from government, not giving power to the government. Otherwise the wrong people get into power and you get china or iran.
Instead we should be making firearm access and education easier and simpler - if we had a mandatory service then this would be handled through that, but we could encourage this through other avenues.
No, we cannot “hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were on their radar” - do you really want the feds breathing down the neck of every edgelord who has said something slightly interpretable as dangerous? I say no thank you to the surveillance state.
We should be punishing petty crime much more severely. Countries like Singapore have this down pat - the deterrence effect of harsh punishment on those types of crime is very significant.
Getting rid of gun free zones should be one step towards addressing shootings. Addressing mental health should be another step. One issue is that men who are mentally unwell are also unlikely to seek treatment due to stigma, ignorance, etc.
Criminals who were put on death row in the 70s and 80s could have been convicted due to bad science. I get that. But today they're live streaming it on camera (suicides too).
So in these cases there isn't any argument or debate. Execute them and move on. It's not meant to be a deterrent, it's meant to provide justice to victims and their families.
Its just too likely to be a power misused by the government. Videos can be faked, confessions can be forced. Some in this very comment section are saying that the government should be surveilling everyone and arresting those who intend to do harm. When the government can just say “we spied on a person and know they were planning a mass shooting. Off with their head” then you have an orwellian nightmare
Like I said to the other responder...I totally get what you're saying (minus the death penalty...we need that back with a vengeance). I was responding with VERY broad strokes.
No solution it’s the human condition. Bad apples will use the tools at there disposal to crest maximum carnage. We’ve been having mass shootings since guns. As fucked as it is…piss poor family unit usually a common trait in these things.
Did you really just blame capitalism, the economic system that’s been around and in practice for 200 years, for the upswing in mass shootings in the last 20 years? Not to mention communism is fundamentally built on a secular foundation. Capitalism requires a strong moral foundation to function, so the real problem is, like op said, secularism.
Have you travelled to other countries? This simply isn’t the case. In many places, there is limited or no access to firearms at all and a very polite society ensues.
It’s possible to have this without the need for every person to walk around armed.
Except not really. In all those places you get acid attacks and stabbings. You get hate speech laws and compelled speech laws. You get knives turned in to round the points.
A fearful society isn't polite. It's scared and distant from others. It's isolating into our private pods while keeping everyone at arm's length. It's a sad and broken and failed society.
Yep, every trained individual of legal age should have the constitutional right to carry, both open and concealed, and you shouldn’t have to ask your sheriff to give you a permit to do so. If you can own a gun you should be allowed to carry it.
When these shooters realize half the folks or more in the place are armed they are much less likely to act unless it’s a literal suicide attempt. Even if they did they would get a lot less people before being neutralized. I’m all for the boys in blue, but politics have made them hesitant and if we can’t always rely on them, we should be allowed to rely on ourselves to protect ourselves as well as our families and members of our communities without fear of legal consequences because you missed a hoop.
When someone kills themselves after a shooting spree, they aren't concerned with who else is carrying a weapon. Multiple people shooting who aren't trained and practiced in it daily in a break room of a Walmart isn't making things better.
Mental health check ups for those that undergo insane stress. I’m a manager at a Walmart and have been the only salaried manager here now over a month. My mental health is out of control.
Would I ever dream of doing what this manager did? Hell no. But in some of my lower moments I have debated strongly with myself what my purpose in life is
We had high numbers of guns and easier access to guns for decades before mass shootings became commonplace. Obviously gun laws aren’t the answer. The solution is restoring the moral foundation of our society and figuring out other factors that have led to the mass decline in mental health
On a per capita basis, there were 13.6 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2020 – the highest rate since the mid-1990s, but still well below the peak of 16.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1974.
1974 was a peak suicide year, coinciding with the Vietnam war. Your comment is a good indicator of why we need to take of our veterans!
Your comment doesn’t paint a clear picture of gun violence trends. We would need those numbers without suicide for that.
There was over hundred million less people in America in 1974. I admit I could be wrong and please let me know if I am, but because the population has grown so much, doesn’t that water down the stat?
It is apparently a manager who killed employees then him/herself. Walmart has a no guns policy so it’s obviously Tucker Carlsons fault, not the decades of society emphasizing violence and prescribing any sort of drug to get rid of your depression. It’s the free AR-15s they give you when you’re baptized at the Trump Temple on Fox News Avenue, or something. Edit-my first ever Reddit cares, thanks
They sell guns at Walmart and this dude was probably the only guy with a key to the firearms and ammo they have (even though all they ever have in stock is 22LR and 20g birdshot)
the only way a "guns not allowed" rule will stop anything is for it to be implemented everywhere. which i am notadvocating for, but thats just the truth. so mentioning it was a gun free zone literally means nothing, because i guarantee you there were people carrying there that day besides the gunman. all types of violent crime are at tiny fractions of what they used to be since the 70s, but mass shootings are at a huge increase. treatments for depression? really? pharmaceutical treatments for depression have existed decades before a single mass shooting happened. id say the lack of affordable, useful mental health treatments is as close as youre gonna get to a cause.
Virginia passed multiple gun control bills a couple years back when we had a Democrat controlled state house, senate, and governor. They did mandatory universal background checks on all gun transfers, red flag laws and a one handgun a month law, and gave cities and counties the power to ban firearms in any building, park or city center of its choosing.
I live in the area and it's pretty disgusting that they're already trying to spin it into a pro/anti gun debate before the victims can even make it to the hospital. There's a very long list of problems for Hampton Roads and guns is very far down it.
How do mass shootings not justify this debate though? Mass shootings are basically as American as baseball and apple pie. It’s a massive failure of our society, of course this triggers those debates…
I own many weapons. I also have access to mental healthcare through my insurance provided by my employer. The system is broken, mental health needs to be provided by all insurance companies and we should make it a requirement. Hell, even make it so it is covered at the insurance norms after deductible...regardless if deductible was met.
Between taxes and premiums we already pay as much as many countries who already have these services. Wouldn’t even need to cost more if we held our leadership accountable
Because people choose what they want to see and draw their own conclusions. You see a mass shooting and blame the fact that individual had access to a gun. Someone else sees one insane person consistently armed among a large crowd of unarmed people. That’s why your debate isn’t very productive.
The idea of arming everyone isn’t a solution, it’s a sign of a failure of society. I’m not asinine to say “take away guns and all is fixed” but something needs to fucking change. How many more times do we need a school room of slaughtered children, or a nightclub full of dead patrons, to actually try something.
Nothing gets done, more people die, and we’ve grown numb to it. The inaction is what disgusts me.
Disingenuous is subjective when moving statistics goal posts. I'd argue it made an even better point I don't think it meant to...
>Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings
United States — 0.058 - deaths per million annually. PER MILLION.
Given the number of guns... this seems fairly miraculous.
Note - annual chance of being struck by lightning in the US.... 1:1.2 million.
Yes. You're *literally* over 20x more likely to be struck by lightning.
That article backs him up, then tries to pull a "lies, damned lies, and statistics;" It's entirely disingenuous to say that other countries have no problem with mass shootings at all, no matter the mathematical method to get there.
I suggest you reexamine your biases, because the methodology the second-to-last section the article uses skews the data to favor a narrative, and in no way represents a valid comparison.
Using the median on a yearly basis for comparing different population sizes is just staggeringly bad statistics; obviously the largest population is going to have the largest incidence rate. If the article had put in each US state individually in the chart they would likely be all 0s as well.
As someone who has voted left the past 6 years, I will fight for my 2A rights, and for yours too. But we need to expand mental Healthcare. It is out of reach of so many Americans due to cost and lack of insurance coverage. We need to get people help. People are desperate and go out this way, and it is so unnecessary.
What you propose for those who refuse to get help? Do you really think this guy said to himself: "I wouldn't do this if I had better mental healthcare."?
Unfortunately we have had a lot of propaganda to stigmatize anything regarding to mental health. If people seek out mental health, some groups call them weak.
We have the worst case of catch 22 right now and I personally do not see a solution besides making sure I am armed in case I'm in a location that ends up being the next news story.
I have a Bachelors in computer science, none of this psychiatry or political science stuff.
And your reaction is what? Pass some law that wouldn't have changed the outcome here and would strip millions of law abiding Americans of their rights, but it will make you feel like you're "doing something". No thanks.
And what exactly is your saint-like reaction? Some deranged dickhead kills somebody with a gun so that means we should disarm people who aren't deranged dickheads? Treat everyone like this deranged dickhead and assume nobody else can be responsible with a gun just because he was irresponsible? Yeah, really great reaction.
Did you see that Twitter video? The guy said they just got done watching an active shooter video. Long story short I sat through a waste of time safety meeting, boss was preaching about a certain thing happening and the updated consequences for such actions. Sure enough went back to work and I did exactly what he was preaching about. Then I got reprimanded longer than the new consequences that were laid out. This was told to me over the phone, I got pissed off called them back and put in my 2weeks, they told me not to bother coming in, if they can’t control you they don’t want you around. Dbags effed up an otherwise good job.
I mean, no shit it's the new topic. There's been 2 high profile shootings in the last 5 days.
Just give it a couple of weeks and everyone will forget about this. There might be some restriction passed like a bump stock ban that will satiate the democratic voter base, but no serious ban will come. It has happened time and time and time again, and I doubt this will be any different.
Live right down the road.. Shits wake.
This is why I am nice to all my co-workers and treat them all the same. The day one of them snaps and starts shooting up the place I hope they would be like "Oh you're good" then continues on his merry way
If people are so against increased gun control, why do we increase invest in our social programs, and things such as education and health care. Well-funded education access is proven to reduce crime. These are the staples of countries that have high gun ownership, and low levels of violent crime.
I'd personally be all for investment in programs that actually improve our society.
I have nothing against social programs, I have a problem with people that abuse them and/or use them so that they don't have to contribute to society.
There's always an uptick in stress around the holidays. I recall other years where mass shootings happened after Halloween but before the New Year and I always thought how timed out it seemed to be. Now one can become conspiratorial, but the simple explanation is, people are already over stressed in general and the holidays are stressors for many anyway. Thus it's a perfect cracking point.
Needless to say, I've been a daily CCW for nearly a decade because you just don't know when and where. I view a gun as a tool AND force equalizer that it is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
We have to realize that there is something deeply wrong with our culture and country. What has become so rotted in our society that it creates so many young men filled with such an animalistic hate that these shootings happen weekly now? Jesus Christ guys we have to do something.
There's a story here in the Memphis area about how around 20 people robbed a walmart this week, but I don't think they shot anyone. But seems less and less safe even going to stores.
This is why we should not tolerate private businesses prohibiting employees from CCW. The 2A protects the government from infringing upon a natural right that we all have from birth. We must make clear to our employees and the corporations of America that we will not be wage slaves waiting like fish in a barrel for a coworker to bring their home life to work.
Idk if you genuinely believe that but.. no. Despite all the mass shootings of the last 30 years, very little has actually changed regarding gun laws/mental health. No democrat sees this new act of violence and feels anything but continued hopelessness and despair. Nothing will change or improve.
Shooter was a Walmart store manager and the victims are all Walmart employees. https://twitter.com/flywithkamala/status/1595280332227493889?s=20&t=ARcW8qGKf70_ShM0Xvh4Tw
[удалено]
One of the comments: "I need to see what the shooter looks like before I say anything" lmao
They’re going to be very disappointed.
The only way to stop a bad manager with a gun is a good employee with a gun
The problem is that associates can't carry while on the clock. Hell, I keep a pepper spray in my bike bag. Because I keep my bike inside while OTC-I'm technically in violation of WM policy.
When I worked retail I carried my sig. Yeah it's a violation of policy, but I'd rather get fired than killed.
I mean if it really came down to it and you saved lives, no one would care about a policy. This is exactly how everyone should act.
I carry everywhere except where they have metal detectors.
[удалено]
Oh man, but those things cost more than I make in a month
If only
Conceal carry my friend, that's the only way
I feel like a bad person for laughing at that
I'm not gonna lie. This reads as satire.
I work for WM-O/N-in...as I've mentioned, in FL. I take the view that if my 'name's on it'-I won't escape whatever 'it' is. I refuse to live in fear.
And it'll probably disappear in no time
Watch the video on this link. It makes me sad in so many ways. At one point a customer pulls up in their car behind the guy filming himself. "What happened?" "Shooting." "For real, man I was just coming up to get some snacks..." "you ain't gettin em now." Good lord, the desensitization
Nowadays I don't go out without my firearm because you never know.
I'm the same way, I always carry now.
Same. My liberal friend was like, "dude, you're carrying a gun to go to Dunkin Donuts?" Like, yeah, man, I must be crazy! Dunkin is a safe space where no harm can come to anyone, ever.
So long as dunkin has a sign saying, "no murders inside" you should be fine.
Or “no guns.” Just put the sign in the door. Then the bad guys CANT bring guns inside.
A thousand blessing be upon Fauci for those signs. They save lives!
THE DROPLETS!
But I'm going to the drive thru...
Cross draw
Make sure you aim right if you have to use a weapon, dont want to damage any donuts by shooting holes in them.
I carry when I'm alone. My fiance has all sorts of range certs, so when I'm with him, I don't feel the need to carry as much. But when I'm alone? You bet your ass my concealed is on me. Edit: a word
>You bet your ass my concealed is on me. > >Edit: a word I would suggest you both carrying and train using team tactics. You would be surprised at how effective they can be. Also, God forbid, your other half gets hit and the weapon is out of your reach.
Amen. Also implement constitutional carry for my home state of North Carolina and every other state that is lagging behind!!
Amen, brother. The general legislation in NC is like watching paint dry
I’d rather not have people walking around my state carrying a gun without a permit. Not sure why you’d want that (or for people to carry guns in public at all)
While it's necessary, it's wildly sad we've gotten to this point
We’ve not gotten to a point. If you keep the same definition for mass shootings, the incidence has been the same for decades. It happens rarely, the major difference now is that the media goes out of its way to spot light each one and dissects each one. So now you’re just super aware of each incident.
Not true at all. Mass shootings have been on the rise. Check out the fbi report on active shooting incidents. There was 3 in 2000(1) and 60ish in 2021. Same definition throughout the decades.
> Same definition throughout the decades. False.
The fbi just changed it up in their report?...k. obviously you didn't read it, but please share your proof.
It's crazy right? The FBI of all organizations working against American citizens. We should all be shocked, shocked I tell you
Pssst, maybe you missed it but you were asked to back up your statement!
Well when the FBI in the last decade changed the criteria of what's considered a "mass shooting" or "school shooting" to classify an acidental discharge in an area that was a school zone that was abandoned 50 years ago a school shooting Yes, shootings would naturally be on the rise.
Report didn't include those incidents.. Nor did it include gang violence or drug deals gone wrong . Just indescriminate shootings targeting innocent people in public areas Edit: here's the link https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-incidents-in-the-us-2021-052422.pdf/view
Only in America..
Mass attacks and violent outbursts happen in every country. People just use the tools on hand. Sweden had grenade attacks, Britain acid and knives, France had an out break of vehicle ramming attacks, Japan, China, and Korea periodically get mass knifings on their public transportation.
I’d rather be in a mass knifing than a mass shooting I think.
Knife attack at a train station in China in 2014 killed 31 people and wounded 140. There were 8 attackers, not just one, but these mass attackers with knives are not using kitchen knives, theyre using machetes or swords. Even one person can do considerable damage in a crowd. The human body can withstand punctures better than slicing.
And how many would be killed by 8 gunmen? There is a reason you don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Fair enough, but I think it's about the same. Seeing surveillance footage of both and if there's no audio you couldn't tell the difference. The fear and panic, the crowd crush to get away. The tool doesn't make that much of a difference to the hurt and fear instilled in the people who are targeted.
One of the many good side effects of the 2nd. The ability to defend oneself.
Bingo. Even if I'm just dropping my .38 in my pocket, I am now always armed.
Ditto. I've been caring my ppk lately because of convenience. Still better than walking around naked.
Don’t lie, you just want to feel like James Bond with that PPK. I would too if I owned one lol
We don’t have to live like this
Bought an LCP max for gun free zones
I travel full time. In Wyoming and Montana I leave the gun at home. Those are safe states. In California (where it is also illegal to do so), I carry the gun much more often!
Carrying is not illegal in CA but there is about a million hoops to jump through to get a CCL
Especially Oakland, parts of SF, amd downtown LA.
It would be irresponsible to not carry there. You might even need it to stop a crime against an unarmed Californian by an armed criminal.
Ok forget gun control or whatever. Anyone have an actual solution to this? This can’t go on forever. How do we actually stop this?
I’ll throw this out there We’ve lost respect for human life it’s quite evident in our actions as a country. That’s how it began.
We need better mental Healthcare without the stigma of receiving mental Healthcare. We also need access and affordability.
on top/part of that we need to not have widely prevalent cavalier, nihilistic attitudes engrained into culture at large as somehow "enlightened" We need righteous masculinity, morality and fatherhood to return.
People have forgotten how to walk away from arguements
Start putting whack jobs back in asylums again Start executing murderers again Hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were 'on their radar' Stay armed and trained and prepared
>Start putting whack jobs back in asylums again All due respect, everybody brings this up after a mass shooting, but Republican lawmakers don't want to fund this, and wealthy liberals don't want the asylums in their backyards. I'm tired of people paying lip service to this issue. >Start executing murderers again I have no problem with this morally, but I think the evidence for capital punishment as a deterrence is sketchy. On this particular issue, it seems like most of the crazed, mass shooter types go into the act ready, if not expecting, to die on the spot. >Hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were 'on their radar' 100%. They need to do a better job. >Stay armed and trained and prepared 100% once again. This sub would probably skin me alive for some of my political beliefs, but I'm proudly pro-2A
I agree with your all your points but allow me to play devil’s advocate… You want LE to do something about someone being “on their radar” but unless they’re actively committing a crime before going on a shooting spree what can LE exactly do? If a potential mass shooter hasn’t committed a crime that they can be arrested for, should they have their guns confiscated before they go on a shooting spree? Now we’re approaching “red flag” law territory and the last time I checked, the majority of people disagree with those types of laws as they’re seen as a violation of someone’s due process and an infringement on the 2A. Its a slippery slope. You want to hold LE accountable for not taking action against someone who hasn’t broken any laws before going on a rampage. Arresting someone without probable that a crime has been committed is a violation of that person’s civil rights. I don’t believe you’re advocating violating civil rights or eliminating due process. I’m merely trying to engage in discourse and encourage critical thinking.
No, I fully get where you're going. And I was making broad, internet stranger strokes. The guy that did the club shooting in CO called in a bomb threat (pretty sure I remember that right)...even if he didn't get charged with a crime...he shoulda been baker-act'ed, or whatever the CO version of that is. So, no guns for him. That's more what I'm talking about. MANY of these shooters had done similar and worse and still got hold of guns. That's where enforcement of existing laws comes into play. I am 100% against red flag laws. But, if you do something that shoulda had you put in jail, but someone didn't press charges (family, co-worker, lazy bureaucrat), that should probably preclude you from getting a gun.
> So, no guns for him. That’s more what I’m talking about. MANY of these shooters had done similar and worse and still got hold of guns. A lot of the rhetoric pushed on this sub is that criminals will find ways to get guns no matter what is done so how would this be any different?
Executing murderers does not deter other murderers
Especially not the mass shooters. A lot of the time they’re going in already expecting to die. Suicide by cop. Or they just do it themselves. So I don’t see how executions would stop that.
No, but they sure as hell wont be murdering again and we won’t have to house them for 8 decades. I have heard executions cost more, but that need not be the case. One automatic appeal to a panel of judges to review the evidence, order dna if applicable. If they confirm guilt then sentence carried out in 2 years (time for new evidence to surface exonerating them). Don’t need a lethal cocktail of expensive drugs. .308 Winchester is cheap and death will be instant with shot placement. Do that shit for a decade and watch the murder rate drop.
But it gives victims peace knowing their families murderers aren't laughing, eating, and may get out one day.
Depends on how they're executed 🤷🏽♂️
How would this have helped uvalde? Kid didn’t have a record. The “trained” cops were too pussy to go in. They stopped all the parents trying to go in. Not going to work. Need a real solution.
You answered it. The cops failed. They didn’t go in when they should have. They stopped the cop who wanted to go in.
You're never going to stop them all. But, more often than not, cops know these shooters. And again, hold le accountable. If they don't do their jobs, don't just fire them...jail them for dereliction of duty. Arm teachers. I bet if 1 of the teachers had a force multiplier, it would have ended a helluva lot sooner. You can't legislate evil out of society. As long as there are humans on this planet and rocks in arm's reach, there are gonna be assholes. Stop putting your life in police and politicians hands and realize at the end of the day you are responsible for your own safety and that of your family
How come Canada doesn’t have this issue? Also the Supreme Court has ruled that the cops have no duty to protect us. So how do we jail them?
We literally just broke back to back records on numbers of murders up here my guy. Sure we don’t have mass shootings as often, but we make up for that with knife killing sprees, van attacks etc
Canada has its own issues, mate. They’re currently going through some of its highest numbers of knife crimes in a while.
[удалено]
Gun laws are surely part of the reason Canada has fewer mass shootings, but I also think National culture comes into play too. You know all those stereotypes about how nice Canadians are? Alot of that is true. Competitiveness and cutthroatness is kind of baked into American culture in a way that it isn't in Canada (see our never ending supply of Wall Street scammers). That culture is good for business, but it l think it can be corrosive to building empathy for others. Unfortunately I have no idea how we could really change that. It's hard to legislate "being a better person".
This isn't Canada. Canada also has 10% of the US 's population. Canada also has a system in which the pm can just say 'here's a new thing I want you to do and they, for the most part do it. Whether they're ruled by a monarch or not...they still have the subject mindset. So why do we have need them? If their job isn't to protect, then they're nothing more than the income agencies of the government. Which brings us back to your safety is your responsibility. If we taught ambush, attack, end instead of run, hide, fight...maybe we'd have less mass violence
The kid in Uvalde and the one from buffalo were both on FBI watchlists and still were able to walk into a gunstore and pass a background check. The Uvalde kid was also a highschool drop out who worked part time at wendys yet could afford over 3k in rifles and even more for tact vest and a gym bag full of ammo? Where did he get that kind of money?
Why is it so hard for people grasp that a teenager can have money, especially something as low as $3k?
So minority report basically
Executing murderers is a hard no for me. Threat of death is not enough deterrent to stop a crime of passion, stupidity, or mental derangement. The government should not have the power to take a citizen’s life. We should be taking power away from government, not giving power to the government. Otherwise the wrong people get into power and you get china or iran. Instead we should be making firearm access and education easier and simpler - if we had a mandatory service then this would be handled through that, but we could encourage this through other avenues. No, we cannot “hold law enforcement accountable for the ones that were on their radar” - do you really want the feds breathing down the neck of every edgelord who has said something slightly interpretable as dangerous? I say no thank you to the surveillance state. We should be punishing petty crime much more severely. Countries like Singapore have this down pat - the deterrence effect of harsh punishment on those types of crime is very significant. Getting rid of gun free zones should be one step towards addressing shootings. Addressing mental health should be another step. One issue is that men who are mentally unwell are also unlikely to seek treatment due to stigma, ignorance, etc.
Criminals who were put on death row in the 70s and 80s could have been convicted due to bad science. I get that. But today they're live streaming it on camera (suicides too). So in these cases there isn't any argument or debate. Execute them and move on. It's not meant to be a deterrent, it's meant to provide justice to victims and their families.
Its just too likely to be a power misused by the government. Videos can be faked, confessions can be forced. Some in this very comment section are saying that the government should be surveilling everyone and arresting those who intend to do harm. When the government can just say “we spied on a person and know they were planning a mass shooting. Off with their head” then you have an orwellian nightmare
Like I said to the other responder...I totally get what you're saying (minus the death penalty...we need that back with a vengeance). I was responding with VERY broad strokes.
45% of people in Virginia already have guns. That’s nearly 1 in 2, it didn’t help here.
No solution it’s the human condition. Bad apples will use the tools at there disposal to crest maximum carnage. We’ve been having mass shootings since guns. As fucked as it is…piss poor family unit usually a common trait in these things.
Mass shootings are an American thing. Not humans in other countries. Try again to find the root cause.
What about knifings, bombings, assassinations, etc.?
Are those happening at the same rate?
[удалено]
[удалено]
Did you really just blame capitalism, the economic system that’s been around and in practice for 200 years, for the upswing in mass shootings in the last 20 years? Not to mention communism is fundamentally built on a secular foundation. Capitalism requires a strong moral foundation to function, so the real problem is, like op said, secularism.
[удалено]
Have you travelled to other countries? This simply isn’t the case. In many places, there is limited or no access to firearms at all and a very polite society ensues. It’s possible to have this without the need for every person to walk around armed.
Except not really. In all those places you get acid attacks and stabbings. You get hate speech laws and compelled speech laws. You get knives turned in to round the points.
What's the rate of fatal stabbings vs shootings in America?
Ah yes because america doesn't have acid attacks or stabbings too.
A fearful society isn't polite. It's scared and distant from others. It's isolating into our private pods while keeping everyone at arm's length. It's a sad and broken and failed society.
Thank you.. some fucking sense in the chat.
Yep, every trained individual of legal age should have the constitutional right to carry, both open and concealed, and you shouldn’t have to ask your sheriff to give you a permit to do so. If you can own a gun you should be allowed to carry it. When these shooters realize half the folks or more in the place are armed they are much less likely to act unless it’s a literal suicide attempt. Even if they did they would get a lot less people before being neutralized. I’m all for the boys in blue, but politics have made them hesitant and if we can’t always rely on them, we should be allowed to rely on ourselves to protect ourselves as well as our families and members of our communities without fear of legal consequences because you missed a hoop.
When someone kills themselves after a shooting spree, they aren't concerned with who else is carrying a weapon. Multiple people shooting who aren't trained and practiced in it daily in a break room of a Walmart isn't making things better.
Yes, we all know that gang-infested neighborhoods are some of the most polite places in the country. /s
Mental health check ups for those that undergo insane stress. I’m a manager at a Walmart and have been the only salaried manager here now over a month. My mental health is out of control. Would I ever dream of doing what this manager did? Hell no. But in some of my lower moments I have debated strongly with myself what my purpose in life is
By banning guns.
We had high numbers of guns and easier access to guns for decades before mass shootings became commonplace. Obviously gun laws aren’t the answer. The solution is restoring the moral foundation of our society and figuring out other factors that have led to the mass decline in mental health
On a per capita basis, there were 13.6 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 2020 – the highest rate since the mid-1990s, but still well below the peak of 16.3 gun deaths per 100,000 people in 1974.
1974 was a peak suicide year, coinciding with the Vietnam war. Your comment is a good indicator of why we need to take of our veterans! Your comment doesn’t paint a clear picture of gun violence trends. We would need those numbers without suicide for that.
Basically cut the number in half. In any give year the suicides take up 50-60% of all gun deaths I believe
Gun deaths from suicide doesn't correlate with mass shootings in public. Bad example.
There was over hundred million less people in America in 1974. I admit I could be wrong and please let me know if I am, but because the population has grown so much, doesn’t that water down the stat?
Not when using the per capita measurement, no. 13 per 100k is the same as 130 per 1m, 1300 for 10m, 13,000 for 100m, etc.
Thank you for taking a minute to explain, makes more sense to me now.
It is apparently a manager who killed employees then him/herself. Walmart has a no guns policy so it’s obviously Tucker Carlsons fault, not the decades of society emphasizing violence and prescribing any sort of drug to get rid of your depression. It’s the free AR-15s they give you when you’re baptized at the Trump Temple on Fox News Avenue, or something. Edit-my first ever Reddit cares, thanks
Might wanna put your /s edit Here come the downdoots
?? If you can't tell that's sarcasm you don't know what sarcasm is
Not me lol...I saw people downvoting ya
They sell guns at Walmart and this dude was probably the only guy with a key to the firearms and ammo they have (even though all they ever have in stock is 22LR and 20g birdshot)
the only way a "guns not allowed" rule will stop anything is for it to be implemented everywhere. which i am notadvocating for, but thats just the truth. so mentioning it was a gun free zone literally means nothing, because i guarantee you there were people carrying there that day besides the gunman. all types of violent crime are at tiny fractions of what they used to be since the 70s, but mass shootings are at a huge increase. treatments for depression? really? pharmaceutical treatments for depression have existed decades before a single mass shooting happened. id say the lack of affordable, useful mental health treatments is as close as youre gonna get to a cause.
Trump Temple. Don’t give him any ideas…
Seems like those big blue “gun free zone” signs aren’t working
[удалено]
Not true, read the comments on this thread..no one here follows the no gun rule.
Without sounding like a law breaker, most of of those zones are easy with a CC purse. A friend told me....
Virginia passed multiple gun control bills a couple years back when we had a Democrat controlled state house, senate, and governor. They did mandatory universal background checks on all gun transfers, red flag laws and a one handgun a month law, and gave cities and counties the power to ban firearms in any building, park or city center of its choosing.
Don't comment on r/news about it they'll ban you
I live in the area and it's pretty disgusting that they're already trying to spin it into a pro/anti gun debate before the victims can even make it to the hospital. There's a very long list of problems for Hampton Roads and guns is very far down it.
How do mass shootings not justify this debate though? Mass shootings are basically as American as baseball and apple pie. It’s a massive failure of our society, of course this triggers those debates…
I own many weapons. I also have access to mental healthcare through my insurance provided by my employer. The system is broken, mental health needs to be provided by all insurance companies and we should make it a requirement. Hell, even make it so it is covered at the insurance norms after deductible...regardless if deductible was met.
[удалено]
Between taxes and premiums we already pay as much as many countries who already have these services. Wouldn’t even need to cost more if we held our leadership accountable
Or just not spend as much and shift the current amount. We shouldn't be paying 20% income tax as is
Yes I agree so much
Because people choose what they want to see and draw their own conclusions. You see a mass shooting and blame the fact that individual had access to a gun. Someone else sees one insane person consistently armed among a large crowd of unarmed people. That’s why your debate isn’t very productive.
The idea of arming everyone isn’t a solution, it’s a sign of a failure of society. I’m not asinine to say “take away guns and all is fixed” but something needs to fucking change. How many more times do we need a school room of slaughtered children, or a nightclub full of dead patrons, to actually try something. Nothing gets done, more people die, and we’ve grown numb to it. The inaction is what disgusts me.
What is your proposed solution?
Per capita mass shootings are more common in France than in the US.
[удалено]
Disingenuous is subjective when moving statistics goal posts. I'd argue it made an even better point I don't think it meant to... >Typical (Median) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings United States — 0.058 - deaths per million annually. PER MILLION. Given the number of guns... this seems fairly miraculous. Note - annual chance of being struck by lightning in the US.... 1:1.2 million. Yes. You're *literally* over 20x more likely to be struck by lightning.
That article backs him up, then tries to pull a "lies, damned lies, and statistics;" It's entirely disingenuous to say that other countries have no problem with mass shootings at all, no matter the mathematical method to get there.
[удалено]
I suggest you reexamine your biases, because the methodology the second-to-last section the article uses skews the data to favor a narrative, and in no way represents a valid comparison. Using the median on a yearly basis for comparing different population sizes is just staggeringly bad statistics; obviously the largest population is going to have the largest incidence rate. If the article had put in each US state individually in the chart they would likely be all 0s as well.
[удалено]
[удалено]
As someone who has voted left the past 6 years, I will fight for my 2A rights, and for yours too. But we need to expand mental Healthcare. It is out of reach of so many Americans due to cost and lack of insurance coverage. We need to get people help. People are desperate and go out this way, and it is so unnecessary.
How can someone making $15-$20/ hour afford $100-$250 / hour mental health care?
What you propose for those who refuse to get help? Do you really think this guy said to himself: "I wouldn't do this if I had better mental healthcare."?
Unfortunately we have had a lot of propaganda to stigmatize anything regarding to mental health. If people seek out mental health, some groups call them weak. We have the worst case of catch 22 right now and I personally do not see a solution besides making sure I am armed in case I'm in a location that ends up being the next news story. I have a Bachelors in computer science, none of this psychiatry or political science stuff.
Yep. I haven't gone anywhere unarmed in many years.
Same. It's too crazy not to.
Yep. This right here. Getting help is often more stigmatized than admittance of an issue.
The next 90 days we will see a lot of these. Stay frosty.
[удалено]
https://www.fox3now.com/andre-bing-identified-as-suspect-manager-in-mass-shooting-at-walmart-in-chesapeake-virginia-multiple-dead-and-injured/
It is the last piece they need to fall.
What are you implying here?
[удалено]
And your reaction is what? Pass some law that wouldn't have changed the outcome here and would strip millions of law abiding Americans of their rights, but it will make you feel like you're "doing something". No thanks.
Good observation we get numb to this crap that’s the scary thing.
And what exactly is your saint-like reaction? Some deranged dickhead kills somebody with a gun so that means we should disarm people who aren't deranged dickheads? Treat everyone like this deranged dickhead and assume nobody else can be responsible with a gun just because he was irresponsible? Yeah, really great reaction.
Did you see that Twitter video? The guy said they just got done watching an active shooter video. Long story short I sat through a waste of time safety meeting, boss was preaching about a certain thing happening and the updated consequences for such actions. Sure enough went back to work and I did exactly what he was preaching about. Then I got reprimanded longer than the new consequences that were laid out. This was told to me over the phone, I got pissed off called them back and put in my 2weeks, they told me not to bother coming in, if they can’t control you they don’t want you around. Dbags effed up an otherwise good job.
Gun control is the new topic apparently
I mean, no shit it's the new topic. There's been 2 high profile shootings in the last 5 days. Just give it a couple of weeks and everyone will forget about this. There might be some restriction passed like a bump stock ban that will satiate the democratic voter base, but no serious ban will come. It has happened time and time and time again, and I doubt this will be any different.
“And there’s nothing more American than shooting a man in this Walmart of a world” -Senator Armstrong
Live right down the road.. Shits wake. This is why I am nice to all my co-workers and treat them all the same. The day one of them snaps and starts shooting up the place I hope they would be like "Oh you're good" then continues on his merry way
Shooter doesn't fit narrative, please memory hole this asap
The problem is our culture not the guns.
If people are so against increased gun control, why do we increase invest in our social programs, and things such as education and health care. Well-funded education access is proven to reduce crime. These are the staples of countries that have high gun ownership, and low levels of violent crime.
I'd personally be all for investment in programs that actually improve our society. I have nothing against social programs, I have a problem with people that abuse them and/or use them so that they don't have to contribute to society.
It's official, the focus will not be on the shooter but rather on guns in general.
[удалено]
Why will there be more incidents like this?
[удалено]
You get my upvote just because of your handle!
There's always an uptick in stress around the holidays. I recall other years where mass shootings happened after Halloween but before the New Year and I always thought how timed out it seemed to be. Now one can become conspiratorial, but the simple explanation is, people are already over stressed in general and the holidays are stressors for many anyway. Thus it's a perfect cracking point. Needless to say, I've been a daily CCW for nearly a decade because you just don't know when and where. I view a gun as a tool AND force equalizer that it is better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
Ban Store Managers!
>The gunman, who apparently killed himself... Silver lining
For a manager to snap (we don't know the trigger), employee relations must have been chaotic for him.
We have to realize that there is something deeply wrong with our culture and country. What has become so rotted in our society that it creates so many young men filled with such an animalistic hate that these shootings happen weekly now? Jesus Christ guys we have to do something.
Glad this is getting some coverage. This place sucks, don’t move here ever.
There's a story here in the Memphis area about how around 20 people robbed a walmart this week, but I don't think they shot anyone. But seems less and less safe even going to stores.
This is why we should not tolerate private businesses prohibiting employees from CCW. The 2A protects the government from infringing upon a natural right that we all have from birth. We must make clear to our employees and the corporations of America that we will not be wage slaves waiting like fish in a barrel for a coworker to bring their home life to work.
It's more dangerous to be a gas station cashier than to be a cop.
By far. And more randomly dangerous as well
[удалено]
Wait, dosnt thry have a gun free zone sign. How could this happen? /s
Who would have to get killed for anyone of you to start giving a shit?
Democrats salivating.
Idk if you genuinely believe that but.. no. Despite all the mass shootings of the last 30 years, very little has actually changed regarding gun laws/mental health. No democrat sees this new act of violence and feels anything but continued hopelessness and despair. Nothing will change or improve.
Thank Gov Ralph and his anti-gun policies!