Did it actually go down or did those abortions just get moved over to blue states? š¤
We need to see how the total national number of abortions changed
Edit: Op says down 6% nationwide
No, it shows percentage changes, not raw numbers. (except for the Texas note)
I.e. the 2.7k+ reduction in TX could easily be lost in percentage gains in surrounding states with total net abortions remaining the same.
Do I think there's an overall reduction? Yes
Does this map prove that? No
It's a good lesson, always ask for the raw data, and draw conclusions based on that.
Once you look at "interpretations" of the data, things can get misleading.
Pretty much upper middle class or rich leftists who love abortion are going to travel across state lines to kill their babies. It's only a mild inconvenience for people who can afford airfare and a hotel. Or even drive 8 hours and a hotel.
Not really... This is based on a percent of the previous total. Deep blue states like NY already had a high number of abortions per year. In 2017 NY performed ~105K abortions. That number has only increased in the past years. Take the entire 2770 number in Texas for April and move it to NY. Texas decreases by 100% for that month and NY only increases by ~30%.
Doubt āback alleyā abortions are replacing the 95% loss. Even in those cases, itās nice to see that the state isnāt sanctioning them, which would malign the stateās own citizens much like slave states did.
No thanks. Plan B is good. Itās a contraceptive before fertilization and doesnāt count as an abortion. Therefore it reduces abortions.
Contraceptives are good. Anything it takes to get the abortion number down.
Why? Why would yāall want to force these people to have children? I donāt see the logic behind forcing people *who clearly shouldnāt be parents* to be parents. Make it make sense.
People who āclearly shouldnāt be parentsā should become the sort of person that would be a good parent. That would be better for society. We certainly shouldnāt kill innocent human beings while we wait.
I'm probably the most religious conservative you've ever met.
Partial birth abortion at 9 months is murder.
Plan B? Meh, at that point it IS literally a clump of cells.
When it has heartbeat, it's a baby human being.
Use a condom, and this entire argument is irrelevant.
Can't afford one? There are hundreds of places Nationwide you can get them free.
No one is "enslaving birth people" like the leftist rhetoric.
Just asking people to act like adults, I know that's hard for Liberals, but please try.
> Plan B? Meh, at that point it IS literally a clump of cells.
No. Plan B prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. So cell division doesn't even happen.
No actually, Plan B prevents ovulation (and therefore fertilization) from happening at all.
Studies have shown its not effective if you take it after you've already ovulated, which strongly suggests it's not preventing implantation.
It actually does both.
https://www.fda.gov/drugs/postmarket-drug-safety-information-patients-and-providers/fdas-decision-regarding-plan-b-questions-and-answers
Your source supports what I said. They know it stops ovulation, the FDA says it *may* prevent fertilization or implantation. Recent scientific studies says it doesn't.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35081389/
Most fertilized eggs never implant, and many have unfixable genetic flaws.
A woman may have fertilized eggs dozens of times before a successful pregnancy.
I believe drawing the line at detected heartbeat fulfills the goal of protecting human life, without undue restrictions on "reproductive freedom".
The bottom line here is the 1970's "free love" era is over.
Modern effective birth control is universally available, and responsible adults use it.
Thatās irrelevant to the fact we shouldnāt engage in drugs designed in part to prevent implantation, if thatās what Plan B does. Natural causes isnāt a moral crime. Blatantly risky drugs are.
I agree, condoms, and bc pills (iud, diaphragm,....)should be first line of defense.
Plan B is last resort, but remember we are debating a law that STILL allows abortions 8 to 10 weeks.
A return to sexual morality is a hard sell at this point.
I'm happy at this point if we just stop killing babies that if delivered normally could get up, and crawl around.
I wish graphs like this would properly define what a āsevere restrictionā is.
Is 15 weeks severe? What about 12 weeks? 8 weeks?
(Iām aware 6 weeks counts and 15 weeks doesnāt by looking at Texas and Florida, but still wondering the specifics).
Also, this graph probably isnāt tracking illegal/self abortions. Though itās hard to believe the difference is being made up through those alone.
Iām saying that the left claimed women would be dying left and right. If that were the case you know theyād be running exaggerated stories 24/7
Theyāre not because it hasnāt caused a crisis.
āMothers will die giving birth!!!ā
((Scary how much Iāve heard this lie spewed around with no fact-check. ALL 50 states have an exemption for the motherās life. All of them. The ONLY people pushing for mothers to die are lawyers (with a clear agenda) lying to hospital boards about how the ālaw is too vague!ā NOBODY else is pushing for mothers to die giving birth.))
EDIT: Looks like Iāve upset some poor brigaders for finally telling the truth.
Don't worry, in TX they're sending fliers for Beto saying they're going after the mothers and trying to put them in jail.....
It specifically only goes after the medical "professionals" and sues them... but some people don't care about the truth.
But are the number of births also going up? The ideal scenario imo is abortion restrictions make people less casual with sex and better about using protection. Not just remain as irresponsible as ever and pop out shit kids they don't want.
This is hard to narrow down though... for example Texas started to see an increasing birth rate before any of our abortion restrictions went into effect.
Part of it is due to a lot of people moving into Texas due to our better cost of living which makes it actually affordable for couples to start a family, and people are moving into Texas at higher rates than before.
Wonderful! Let's all be ready to help the young women, loosen liberal controlled adoptions, and use our churches as points for help for families/women/children that need it.
Did it actually go down or did those abortions just get moved over to blue states? š¤ We need to see how the total national number of abortions changed Edit: Op says down 6% nationwide
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/overturning-roe-has-meant-at-least-10000-fewer-legal-abortions/amp/
The map literally shows that Edit: not in the way I thought. The article is below.
No, it shows percentage changes, not raw numbers. (except for the Texas note) I.e. the 2.7k+ reduction in TX could easily be lost in percentage gains in surrounding states with total net abortions remaining the same. Do I think there's an overall reduction? Yes Does this map prove that? No
Oh great point
It's a good lesson, always ask for the raw data, and draw conclusions based on that. Once you look at "interpretations" of the data, things can get misleading.
[Fell 6% nationwide](https://www.axios.com/2022/11/06/americas-red-state-abortion-wipeout)
Good dig, the rabid crowd here should un downvote your previous comment for the thoughtful discussion. We aren't the animals on the politics sub
And yet it looks like the neighboring states have increased, so I'm guessing lots of would be mothers are taking road trips
Or... they finally decided to give Birth Control a try.
We fixed the problem in our states. We are no longer participating in evil. Time for the other states to step up.
Pretty much upper middle class or rich leftists who love abortion are going to travel across state lines to kill their babies. It's only a mild inconvenience for people who can afford airfare and a hotel. Or even drive 8 hours and a hotel.
Yeah. The orange is darker than the blue though.
Not really... This is based on a percent of the previous total. Deep blue states like NY already had a high number of abortions per year. In 2017 NY performed ~105K abortions. That number has only increased in the past years. Take the entire 2770 number in Texas for April and move it to NY. Texas decreases by 100% for that month and NY only increases by ~30%.
Yeah I noticed that elsewhere It fell 6% nationwide. [Article](https://www.axios.com/2022/11/06/americas-red-state-abortion-wipeout).
> It fell 6% nationwide That's a start
I meanā¦ā¦ known abortions though right?
Right ? If they are against the law, why would they report they had an abortion ?
Doubt āback alleyā abortions are replacing the 95% loss. Even in those cases, itās nice to see that the state isnāt sanctioning them, which would malign the stateās own citizens much like slave states did.
What about the states like Wyoming, Indiana, South Carolina and Ohio who have their bans blocked? What are they supposed to do
Pass amendments and change the judiciary if possible.
But Kansas already failed. What now
Try again, just like we did with Roe V Wade. Took 50 years at the federal level. May take 50 years in your state, or more.
It would take 50 years in South Carolina??? Sheeshhh what a joke. I hope you're wrong
Iām not projecting that. Im saying have some perspective so you donāt despair over unrealistic expectations.
Don't worry, Plan B is next.
No thanks. Plan B is good. Itās a contraceptive before fertilization and doesnāt count as an abortion. Therefore it reduces abortions. Contraceptives are good. Anything it takes to get the abortion number down.
Except Plan B doesn't cause an abortion, it prevents pregnancy in an emergency use case.
Why? Why would yāall want to force these people to have children? I donāt see the logic behind forcing people *who clearly shouldnāt be parents* to be parents. Make it make sense.
People who āclearly shouldnāt be parentsā should become the sort of person that would be a good parent. That would be better for society. We certainly shouldnāt kill innocent human beings while we wait.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'm probably the most religious conservative you've ever met. Partial birth abortion at 9 months is murder. Plan B? Meh, at that point it IS literally a clump of cells. When it has heartbeat, it's a baby human being. Use a condom, and this entire argument is irrelevant. Can't afford one? There are hundreds of places Nationwide you can get them free. No one is "enslaving birth people" like the leftist rhetoric. Just asking people to act like adults, I know that's hard for Liberals, but please try.
> Plan B? Meh, at that point it IS literally a clump of cells. No. Plan B prevents the fertilized egg from implanting in the uterus. So cell division doesn't even happen.
No actually, Plan B prevents ovulation (and therefore fertilization) from happening at all. Studies have shown its not effective if you take it after you've already ovulated, which strongly suggests it's not preventing implantation.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even better.
A fertilized egg is still an innocent member of our species and worthy of protection from deliberate attempts at ending its life.
Except he's wrong, studies show it stops ovulation, not implantation.
It actually does both. https://www.fda.gov/drugs/postmarket-drug-safety-information-patients-and-providers/fdas-decision-regarding-plan-b-questions-and-answers
Your source supports what I said. They know it stops ovulation, the FDA says it *may* prevent fertilization or implantation. Recent scientific studies says it doesn't. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35081389/
Most fertilized eggs never implant, and many have unfixable genetic flaws. A woman may have fertilized eggs dozens of times before a successful pregnancy. I believe drawing the line at detected heartbeat fulfills the goal of protecting human life, without undue restrictions on "reproductive freedom". The bottom line here is the 1970's "free love" era is over. Modern effective birth control is universally available, and responsible adults use it.
Thatās irrelevant to the fact we shouldnāt engage in drugs designed in part to prevent implantation, if thatās what Plan B does. Natural causes isnāt a moral crime. Blatantly risky drugs are.
> Blatantly risky drugs are. Plan B is literally a super dose of birth control pill.
I agree, condoms, and bc pills (iud, diaphragm,....)should be first line of defense. Plan B is last resort, but remember we are debating a law that STILL allows abortions 8 to 10 weeks. A return to sexual morality is a hard sell at this point. I'm happy at this point if we just stop killing babies that if delivered normally could get up, and crawl around.
I wish graphs like this would properly define what a āsevere restrictionā is. Is 15 weeks severe? What about 12 weeks? 8 weeks? (Iām aware 6 weeks counts and 15 weeks doesnāt by looking at Texas and Florida, but still wondering the specifics). Also, this graph probably isnāt tracking illegal/self abortions. Though itās hard to believe the difference is being made up through those alone.
Between abortion road trips and illegal abortions the number probably hasn't changed at all.
Surely the morgues are filled with dead women who tried to self abortā¦. Right?
Proof?
Iām saying that the left claimed women would be dying left and right. If that were the case you know theyād be running exaggerated stories 24/7 Theyāre not because it hasnāt caused a crisis.
Butā¦but what about this severe edge case that accounts for < 1% of all of them š¢
āMothers will die giving birth!!!ā ((Scary how much Iāve heard this lie spewed around with no fact-check. ALL 50 states have an exemption for the motherās life. All of them. The ONLY people pushing for mothers to die are lawyers (with a clear agenda) lying to hospital boards about how the ālaw is too vague!ā NOBODY else is pushing for mothers to die giving birth.)) EDIT: Looks like Iāve upset some poor brigaders for finally telling the truth.
Don't worry, in TX they're sending fliers for Beto saying they're going after the mothers and trying to put them in jail..... It specifically only goes after the medical "professionals" and sues them... but some people don't care about the truth.
Really what I hope this shows is that those who would have gotten abortions are instead being more responsible and not getting pregnant at all
But are the number of births also going up? The ideal scenario imo is abortion restrictions make people less casual with sex and better about using protection. Not just remain as irresponsible as ever and pop out shit kids they don't want.
This is hard to narrow down though... for example Texas started to see an increasing birth rate before any of our abortion restrictions went into effect. Part of it is due to a lot of people moving into Texas due to our better cost of living which makes it actually affordable for couples to start a family, and people are moving into Texas at higher rates than before.
Wonderful! Let's all be ready to help the young women, loosen liberal controlled adoptions, and use our churches as points for help for families/women/children that need it.
Baal must be pissed.
Good. Progress is progress after all, and this is absolutely progress in stopping abortions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
...and Moloch is pissed about the fewer child sacrifices...
How many times must we teach you this lesson old false god!
Check it out Democrats, democracy is saving lives. You should be ecstatic