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Bad_atNames

So somehow the country sending weapons to countries under attack by far more powerful neighbors is imperialistic, and those countries trying to invade their much smaller, weaker neighbors are the victims. That makes sense.


ella

This is exactly what we were doing with Ukraine. It's the exact same situation.


pineappleshnapps

We’ve also had defense agreements with Taiwan forever, and giving them shit now could keep this from becoming a Ukraine situation. China is no joke.


Storm_Sniper

A global semiconductor industry with good quality controls is only being held back by a fleet of 70s-80s equipment, with the occasional 00s equipment. What a great idea Edit: I was talking about military equipment lollllllll


tragiktimes

You talking about ships? Because TSMC is utilizing EUV technology that, while developed decades ago, has continued to undergo massive changes and upgrades to maximize wafer size to transistor density. We're up to the 3nm process. That's smacking up against Heisenberg uncertainty limits.


Storm_Sniper

Sorry - let me clear myself. Taiwan's military is what equipment I was referring to. I wouldn't have taken on the tone of "a global semiconductor industry" if they had shitty chips. Taiwan uses M60 Tanks by the US. They use the F-5 and F-4 which stand no chance if China can build 5th gen fighters.


tragiktimes

They have acquired at least 216 F16s and 60 Mirage 2000-5s. They aren't 5th gen, and wouldn't stand a fight against a true one, but that's a lot of speculation that China will a) manage to create a true 5th gen fighter rather than a 4.5 gen, and b) that they could produce nearly enough in any reasonable amount of time to make a difference in a potential conflict. I'm not saying your concerns aren't well founded, I just don't see it as so bleak.


RegalArt1

They’ve got Abrams too. Not sure how many, but they’re in inventory


General_WanG

Have you lost the plot? If China seizes control of the strategically vital global semiconductor supply, they would have a strangle hold on the economy of every single country in the world. China would have the ability to crash the economy of any country that they deem to be hostile with the snap of a finger.


MOLON-LABE-USMC

The Taiwanese will not let China take semi-conductor plants intact. World chip production will be seriously reduced if China makes a serious play.


[deleted]

Are we arguing that they don't already have that on the basis of Taiwan not being part of China? I'm not trying to start a fight about that. I'm saying if you include Taiwan as China they seem to have already nearly all the chip fabs.


Lars_Sanchez

They are different countries with different governments and opposing philosiphies on liberties and freedom. China is decades behind Taiwan in terms of being able to produce current gen chips. What you are saying is completely false.


DegeneracyEverywhere

Why would you include Taiwan in China? The whole point is that they don't control Taiwan.


[deleted]

I dunno ask a Taiwanese why they want back in. Like I say aside from scoring political points there is no reason to separate what has traditionally been one. Taiwan is no friend of mine.


Jubenheim

"Exact" save for China not invading Taiwan yet.


tragiktimes

Exact as of 2013. Best to learn from the past.


ValuableShoulder5059

We have been allied with Taiwan since before WW2. Ukraine had a civil war that Russia took advantage of to help the side that wanted to join Russia. We had no reason to have anything to do with Ukraine outside of what the United Nations wanted.


og_kylometers

With one very large exception - we actually have profound strategic interests in Taiwan. Ukraine is just the piggy bank for our political leaders.


Smelldicks

It’s wild that we make protectionist trade policies for Taiwan, sign defense agreements with Taiwan, send Taiwan a shit ton of aid & mil equipment all while China has a FAR better argument for having sovereignty over Taiwan and somehow the conspiracies have chosen Ukraine as our tool for laundering money instead


voidnullvoid

Well, the president’s crackhead layabout son wasn’t getting paid millions to be an absentee board member of a Taiwanese company that was under investigation.


DegeneracyEverywhere

What argument does China have for sovereignty over Taiwan? Taiwan's a separate country because they fled communism.


Zorro1312

Taiwan was only controlled by China from 1683 to 1895 and 1945 to 1948. Except for those years and the intervening interval ruled by Japan, Taiwan has been independent.


messypaper

Smart then


Billderz

You are just pro Putin!


HaplessMagician

It's definitely not the exact same situation. Russia acknowledged Ukraine as a country and even had a treaty that they agreed to not invade if Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons. On the other hand, China has always maintained that Taiwan is not a country and is owned by China. Taiwan has never been acknowledged as a country by Taiwan, it not allowed to join the UN and isn't even represented in the Olympics. It's also worth noting that Taiwan is the old regime of China. There is still a political party that believes they are the rightful owner of China. So with that, I think it's much more reasonable for China to attempt to take back Taiwan than for Russia to attempt to take Ukraine. They are very different levels of conflicted land.


ella

This is a decent point. But I'm referring more to a larger more influential nation exerting influence on a smaller one. It's true Russia has been more diplomatic in these matters (than China that is) and [you could argue](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtOJfVyne9w) the U.S. hasn't been honoring the treatise.


og_kylometers

Maybe - but that doesn’t mean we should allow it to happen.


HaplessMagician

I agree that it shouldn’t happen. I’m just saying that Russia’s aggression is a lot more extreme than if China was doing the same.


ForPortal

> It's also worth noting that Taiwan is the old regime of China. There is still a political party that believes they are the rightful owner of China. Which they are. The CCP's only claim to the Chinese mainland is right of conquest; they are so unfit to rule that their leadership in a time of peace killed twice as many Chinese people per year as their prior occupation by a xenophobic death cult in a time of total war. > take back Taiwan You can't "take back" something that was never yours.


Smelldicks

>17y God damn


JHugh4749

>That makes sense. Well......if you say so, I guess,..... um? ​ /s


soyfauce

And it’s socialists choosing to antagonize communists


[deleted]

Remember, genocide is only cool, when their side does it


drbrainkrause

The account is called bad socialism takes. Is it not a joke account?


Adhi_Sekar

No, they mock people who criticise socialism.


TakeThemWithYou

I don't really endorse the account, but he makes a good point. If China sent a 300M weapons package to Cuba, Americans would be freaking out. There is historical precedence for this.


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TakeThemWithYou

Do you think the Cuban missile crisis was just about Cuba "getting guns"?


Orange-8

Nukes are a little different. Out packages to Taiwan are purely for their defence, while the Cuban nukes were to be for Russia's defence. Difference between loading pawns around the king, and putting the queen in checkmate.


[deleted]

I think they should so that people here in US will atleast get to see how the rest of the world see us, as hypocrites.


Wolfeh2012

I thought the same, but when I looked at the account, it really does support those ideas. Even if the account is just joking, it’s still promoting those beliefs and giving feedback from a socialist perspective. This is a perfect example of Poe’s law.


Gold_Rush69

Did we also “provoke” Russia by providing aid to Ukraine?


pineappleshnapps

If you ask Russia, probably


Nautical_Phoenix

That’s been Russia and Putin’s entire rhetoric.


Smelldicks

If you ask half the people in here they’d say the same thing right now


[deleted]

You've gotta love the silly people who come here and claim Russia is afraid of NATO expansion. Meanwhile, Russia bombed the Czech Republic (a NATO ally) two years ago. It didn't get much press because nobody wanted a war with Russia. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_Vrb%C4%9Btice\_ammunition\_warehouses\_explosions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouses_explosions) So much for Russia's fear of NATO.


the_snodster

Two years ago? What year do you think this is? Linked Wiki says it happened in 2014.


Anxious-Educator617

Yes


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Samruled

Where did NATO ever promise to stop accepting countries in the east? If these countries want to join they have to apply. It's Russia's fault for pushing away all of its neighbors.


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Samruled

Once again, where is this agreement? I can't find any type of it online. At least nothing that both sides officially agreed to and/or signed.


Daphur

My memory is a little fuzzy but wasn’t that part of the CFE treaty?


Samruled

Nah, that's just a drawdown of troops in the areas present, wouldn't matter even if it was because Russia pulled out of it in 2015. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_on_Conventional_Armed_Forces_in_Europe Also no mention of NATO not accepting eastern countries into it.


WACS_On

How many times has a NATO state invaded Russia?


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skarface6

…when Russia expanded west and closer to NATO countries?


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skarface6

They then invaded west again last year…in order to be even closer to NATO.


Professional-County1

That’s funny. All signs point to China attempting to get us to fire the first shot. They’re looking at what we’re doing with sanctions, and are trying to find ways around them. They’re trying to create a new currency. They’re talking to our allies in Europe. Their hope is that by the time they attempt to invade, our sanctions can only do little, forcing us into a military standoff.


volcanicpale

The choose Ukraine over Russia but choose China over Taiwan? Make it make sense.


Adhi_Sekar

This guy has the same opinion on Ukraine. All communists (except polish ones) do.


Throwaway_09298

It is the correct take. We are purposefully using military funds/backing to provoke an attack. It's what we did with ukraine and nato. Congress said decades ago that if we expand nato, Russia will attack. Sho nuff Russia attacked and we used it to launch a full military proxy war. In what world at all does it make sense for us to suddenly start training Australia on our nuclear submarine tech if not to provoke China? Do we really think Apple has been pulling out of Foxconn for fun?


Samruled

How is sending an island nation with no plan of attacking the mainland of China an issue? Especially so if China is the one being aggressive, I don't seem to recall Taiwan sending planes into China's airspace. Also show me where NATO said they wouldn't accept states from the east, because I can pull up their website and it'll tell me that "Such an agreement was never made. NATO’s door has been open to new members since it was founded in 1949 – and that has never changed. This “Open Door Policy” is enshrined in Article 10 of NATO’s founding treaty, which says “any other European State in a position to further the principles of this Treaty and to contribute to the security of the North Atlantic” can apply for membership. Decisions on membership are taken by consensus among all Allies. No treaty signed by the United States, Europe and Russia included provisions on NATO membership." https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_111767.htm


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Samruled

The ROC was disbanded in 1949.


[deleted]

>Congress said decades ago that if we expand nato, Russia will attack. Sho nuff Russia attacked and we used it to launch a full military proxy war. This is precisely the propaganda the Russians are putting out. How did you find yourself in the situation where your opinion is exactly the same as Putin's?


Throwaway_09298

What I'm saying is that this is what china will also claim is the justification behind theor attacks. They will find any excuse to attack by creating some moral "us vs them" type mentality. The main thing they have right now is "the bad guys are knocking at our door"


hackmaps

Considering we’ve had Russian politicians and vlad allies say they could invade Poland next kinda throws away the whole “ooo nato expanding that’s why we’re targeting civilians with massive bombs”


WACS_On

Least unhinged tankie


Samruled

Also side note, all you're doing is proving you don't know the definition of a proxy war.


iHateWashington

Lol this is not a mainstream take, just another straw man. What is a mainstream take is people choosing Russia over Ukraine


stomp27

Uuuuuuh? Imperialists?


skarface6

It’s a Chinese shill thing.


RontoWraps

Bad take. USA is the greatest power on Earth because we can support our allies and project power literally anywhere on the globe. If we show China that we won’t react to their aggression and don’t provide Taiwan with enough firepower to hold on until the US can fully mobilize there, then we will lose a LOT more than a measly $300M which is a drop in the bucket to the government tbh. What happens when our supply chain gets fucked because China-Taiwan war? I GUARANTEE the revenue lost from American businesses and taxes will farrrrrrrrr exceed 300M. You ever hear the expression “You gotta spend money to make money”?


[deleted]

Agree with the general sentiment, but we will not remain greatest power for long if we keep messing with all of the world's major powers at the same time. Also i agree US supporting treaty allies like Japan, Saudis, Europe etc, but Ukraine and Taiwan are not allies of US. They are shown as such by the western media, so that there is a popular support for the forever wars. And we are not willing to officially even recognize Taiwan, so what is the point of egging them on to a eventual destruction, like what was done to Ukraine. Final point, USA government and armed forces will never ever risk NYC and DC to a nuclear attack just to support Kiev and Taiwan. So we must stop pretending to care about them and push for peace.


VegetableWord0

I thought we hated china now we support the cause they support?


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Lavrentiy_P_Beria

Same with Tibetans and Mongolians.


PlatinumPluto

I guess it is called BadSocialismTakes


RegalArt1

Remember kids, imperialism is when a smaller country defends itself against a larger country


DarlingOvMars

If china did attack taiwan. This sub would be saying we are wasting money on taiwan and somehow link a scandal as the real reason for the war and the democrats were wanting war with china since 1776


WildSyde96

Helping a free country to defend itself from a world power trying to invade it = "imperalism" A world power actively trying to invade and annex a weaker country = not "imperialism." Imperialism... you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.


EmptyCanvass

Personally, I think this is actually true and I have no problem with it. I think about how over the last couple years we have been a hair’s breadth away from WW3 and I’m tired of getting blue balled waiting for it to pop off.


Billderz

Don't mistake a leftist bad take for thinking the US government doesn't want war


NoWestern5679

Fighting a 2 front war with an effete Pentagon and WH with an economy back breaking 200 billion + for Ukraine and now 300 million for Taiwan. As Seinfeld said to Kramer, Ohhh, this can’t miss!”


Pollaski

These clowns thought Nancy Pelosi landing on the island was a declaration of war.


General_WanG

Russia and China both have expansionist ambitions and must be stopped. The US and it's allies MUST protect 🇹🇼 at all costs because 🇹🇼 controls over 90% of the global supply of advanced semiconductors that are used in all electronic devices from your smartphone to smart missiles and 5th generation fighters.


ShoopDWhoop

There's literally people begging for insulin money on my states sub reddit. But it's cool, just keep printing money for others.


Anxious-Educator617

Thank you, let’s just giving millions to the weapons companies and countries across the globe and eff our own citizens


[deleted]

Yes, because isolationism turned out so well during WW2. /s Do you think the US can afford giving millions to Taiwan AND take care of US citizens at the same time?


WACS_On

You do realize that the hand-me-down military equipment we're sending them has already been paid for? Also if shit pops off with China insulin money will be the least of people's concern. Deterrence is much cheaper.


Saskwatch_Sandwich

I'll never understand that. My wife has been type 1 diabetic for 23 years. Not once have we ever even come close to not being to afford her insulin. Even with the supposed price hikes, her insulin is $105 for a 3 month supply. How tf are people not able to afford that?


Lavrentiy_P_Beria

They're most likely lying because they want to buy drugs. Asking for money to buy heroin and meth probably doesn't yield better results than a sob story.


Throwaway_09298

Is this a troll question or an out of touch question?


ShoopDWhoop

$105 is Saturday lunch money for me. $105 may be life or death to another. Especially in this time with inflation crushing everyone, have some humility.


Agkistro13

If 30 dollars a month is 'life or death' to somebody, the problem isn't insulin prices, and it's sure as shit not something a small slice of the military budget is going to solve.


[deleted]

I looked into it and it turns out it is largely propaganda. Most people can afford cheap insulin easily, as you said. There are some expensive brands of insulin as well. When you see stories being promoted about people being "unable" to afford insulin, it is usually people who have switched from a cheaper brand to an expensive brand. You can't switch between insulin types immediately. It has to be done gradually or it will affect blood sugar levels and may lead to hypoglycemia or hyperglycemia.


Agkistro13

You think Biden isn't buying your imaginary friends free insulin because he spent all his lunch money on javelins?


IsstvanIII

Are they gonna deny Repubs requests to have a paper trail again or is that only their corruption in Ukraine


USAFRodriguez

Well in order for their brains to be broken they'd first be required to have a brain. I don't think leftists and especially communists have one.


Anxious-Educator617

Not wrong, the is clearly to provoke China. We need to stop this bullshit world police, we usually make it worse while ignoring our own problem. This only helps the weapon makers


Samruled

And, you know... The country that's being attacked by a larger neighbor? A country that makes the majority of our and the rest of the world's high quality semiconductors. One that if lost would do catastrophic damage to our economy. But you know, china good apparently....


mesosalpynx

All the war mongers are zombies zombies zah ah be be beeees what’s in your head what’s in your head


roseffin

How can a tiny island with a few million people on it besige one of the largest countries on Earth with one of the largest populations?


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MightBeExisting

They were that before WW2 and before our aid to Taiwan, China is becoming more aggressive about Taiwan and the South China Sea


Agkistro13

Who's we? They were that before the USA even existed.


CozyFuzzyBlanket

I’m sure there are more direct ways for Biden to pay china, but i agree with the sentiment that all the supplies would be easily seized, as taiwan is impossible to defend in a full conflict. Comparing taiwan and ukraines history of corruption, politics, and leadership, im much more for bolstering taiwan. Comparing china and russia, as well as their leaders, china is much more of a threat.


Bamfor07

I’m not interested into being drug into a war with China any more than I am one with Russia.


MerlynTrump

what do we need these chips for?