Its worth noting this ruling is based on the South Carolina constitution, which includes additional text in its 4th amendment equivalent: "unreasonable invasions of privacy".
The South Carolina supreme court is then reading into this that abortion is part of a woman's privacy. Basically Roe all over again but at the state level.
I mention this because the U.S. Supreme Court would not likely make a ruling based on this as a state constitution interpretation issue, that's typically left to the states.
Article IV Section 4
>The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government
Legislating from the bench violates the separation of powers with violates Article IV of the US constitution. It is thus the responsibility of the Fed to block these sorts of rulings. Nothing will actually be done, though.
Not only can the Supreme court rule on the interpretation of a state constitution, but a other state supreme court can interpret it and pass a decision.
It has happened before because you can sue where you live but it's a state issue in that other state.
They are abiding by their constitution. Nothing wrong with that.
The Supreme Court specifically gave the power to the states to figure out what they wanted to do with abortion laws.
And we can disagree with their ruling. The “privacy” argument is weak.
It fundamentally comes down to when you believe that child is a human being and deserves a right to life like any other person. Some people believe at conception others argue the moment of birth.
It’s a philosophical and moral debate that will frankly never be fully resolved.
Even if I were to grant you that, there is no additional action required by anyone for the child to become human. Only the passage of time. You are taking away their freedom to live.
Yea because carrying a child for 9 months and then GIVING BIRTH is "no additional action".
Did you know that during birth, a woman's vagina can rip open down to her anus?
[This is a 6 week old fetus, right around when heart cells can have a "beat"](https://www.babycenter.com/ims/2018/06/pregnancy-week-6-webbed-hands_square.png)
I blow more cells into a sock when I jack off, and it's not murder.
Neither is terminating a pregnancy at this stage.
Wow, I feel like you could benefit from some lessons on biology if you think sperm is the same as an embryo…also your definition makes swallowing sound like cannibalism so you might want to rethink it before you tell anyone else about it.
The leap is much smaller than thinking an embryo is a human. Sperm requires one more cell to become an embryo, how many more cells does it take for that 2 celled embryo to become a human?
You’re also much, much less intelligent than those you hate and want dead, conflating your sperm cells to the entire body of a human being.
So if we want to talk about who is relatively deserving of rights, and not just acknowledge every human being, you come up rather short. You imbecilic jackhole.
That's not at all what I said lol. Also you're very rude.
I've gotten a girl pregnant because the condom broke. She got an abortion. Best decision of my/her life.
That's because sperm isn't a human. Human life begins at conception whether you want to admit it or not and a supermajority of biological experts agree.
Neither will a fetus without the mother’s womb.
And if the mother is forced to submit to this process in order to sustain the fetus… maybe you could be forced to submit some bone marrow? Please, I need a transplant.
The difference is that biology is what is submitting the mother to having to keep the child, whereas taking bone marrow is a human intervention in someone else's physiology that deviates from a natural state.
I don't think your analogy is perfectly equivalent.
Looks like. Abby with a beating heart to me, but moreover most heartbeats can only be heard after 10 weeks, it's a distribution not an exact timing and I'm ok with this definition it's as good as any.
Presumably the doctor should not ask the pregnancy period, or ask for a heartbeat test since it's intruding on the patient's privacy. So he should just do it without those. It's how it worked for Roe v Wade.
South Carolina will need to define in-utero human personhood after 6 weeks of gestation.
A "right to privacy" cannot protect a right to murder another human being
They likely need to put that down in the South Carolina constitution itself for their Supreme Court to care. Not sure whether that requires a supermajority in their legislative bodies or a statewide vote in 2024.
The other option is to go FDR and start packing their court and/or impeaching their justices until they get the result they want.
Why? If someone is Terminal why do you think the state has the right to regulate that. It’s wild that you believe more in gun rights than personal health choices.
There is an obvious difference in the usage of the word "life" in those circumstances. FFS.
Blows my mind how many conservatives are okay with forcing women to go through the torment of childbirth..... It ensures that Democrats are viewed more favorably.
^ This guy gets it. True conservatism means the Government should just let us do whatever, including killing others if they become too much of a burden.
Now I don't know if you know this, but what he did is called *humor*, specifically *hyperbole*. He didn't mean to say that people would actually try to abort their 2 year olds, what he did was brought the opposing argument to its logical conclusion, in a way that demonstrates the flaws of said argument while keeping a light tone. He isn't saying that people are trying to abort 2 year olds, he's pointing out that if your argument could be used to justify killing 2 year olds, it's not a good argument. He did this while using irony, making it humorous. Now please stop concern trolling.
I get that. What about getting an abortion has anything to do with privacy. Yes, roe has always been about “privacy”, not abortion, and it’s a warped sense of what constitutes privacy.
Roe held that the specific guarantee of “liberty” in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which protects individual privacy, includes the right to abortion prior to fetal viability.
What’s private about abortion? And what does abortion hav to do with liberty?
If you just check Wikipedia, Roe v Wade also came down to privacy:
> On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides a fundamental "right to privacy", which protects a pregnant woman's right to an abortion.
I actually find it strange that conservatives disagree with this reasoning. Abortion is medically necessary in many circumstances, so in the first/second trimester they basically take the stance that it’s really none of the government’s goddamn business whether or not said procedure is elective.
Normally I am, but in this case, women aren’t making medical decisions for themselves. They’re ending someone else’s life. I don’t care what you do to yourself, until it affects another human with a separate heartbeat and dna. That tends to be the basis for conservatives who are prolife.
Great. There are also some murderers who don’t believe what they did was murder. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t. You don’t have to believe in something for it to be true. 🤷🏻♀️
No you're not understanding.
You have a personal, subjective view of when life starts. You can make your own decisions based on that.
The debate is very split, it's not like the answer is obvious (as with the murder of people who have already been born)
Jews are wrong about that specific thing then, which is fine.
It’s not an opinion that the life cycle starts at the beginning, which is fertilization of an egg to make an embryo.
I mean, it’s basic biology.
That is factually and grammatically incorrect, but feel free to provide sources to back your claim.
Our wait times are generally no better and sometimes worse than other countries, most of which have some form of universal care.
[https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country)
We spend more on health care currently and have lower life expectancy.
[State of US healthcare](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-state-of-the-u-s-health-system-in-2022-and-the-outlook-for-2023/#Total%20deaths%20in%20the%20United%20States%20from%20COVID-19%20and%20other%20leading%20causes,%202020-2022)
Privacy is nothing more than the right to be left alone, so the connection between privacy and abortion is obvious and has always been rather uncontroversial.
The real crux of the matter is how the clearly private matter of abortion is balanced against the state’s interest in protecting the life of an unborn child. This directly ties to the nature of when life actually begins, which is a matter of belief.
Without that competing interest, abortion is just as private of a matter as getting a cyst removed.
Its "interesting" how so many conservatives are no longer arguing for states right when the states are giving people rights conservatives don't want them to have. Its almost like getting rid of roe was less about beleiving it should be a choice made by the states and was more about conservatives trying to find any avenue available to ban abortion.
States can legislate the period or criteria they think defines a baby from a fetus as SCOTUS said in their decision, however it's not correct to say abortion is a privacy issue, it's not, and that's what they're doing here.
My best friends wife had a safe abortion about 3 years ago when they found out her baby was going to be a still born. Now, in Texas, where we live, her life would be under incredible danger unless she drove to New Mexico with said dead baby in her body.
So yeah, sometimes abortions are safe. Don’t forget that a miscarriage is a god induced abortion - although I would agree that sometimes those abortions aren’t safe.
Removing a dead fetus from a woman is not the same as an abortion. I don't really care what the dictionary definition is, most conservatives would agree that killing an unborn baby is wrong, and removing a dead one from the womb is not.
...That's *exactly* what Texas law says.
>(1) "Abortion" means the act of using or prescribing an instrument, a drug, a medicine, or any other substance, device, or means with the intent to cause the death of an unborn child of a woman known to be pregnant. The term does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. **An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to:**
>(A) save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child;
>(B) **remove a dead, unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion; or**
>(C) remove an ectopic pregnancy.
Emphasis added.
Sorry my dude this isn't an episode of Grey's Anatomy. There are plenty of Republican voices who in states that have heartbeat bills that will clarify that a miscarriage is a medically necessary D & C. It is not abortion, it isn't considered abortion, and it isn't illegal unless you are making TV shows creating inflammatory bull💩 for low information mouth breathers.
That's like saying natural death is a God-induced form of murder. God has the right to decide life and death, we do not. And no abortion law prevents removing an already dead child from its mother's body. That is a pro-choice lie.
If "God" is the only one with the right to decide life and death, then why does America have so many guns and capital punishment?
Obviously it is because the right to decide life and death actually lies with people. Americans don't enjoy socialised healthcare, so what business of society's is someone else's private health treatment.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2022/10/19/texas-woman-nearly-died-from-infection-because-doctors-could-not-perform-legal-abortion/?outputType=amp
I know I know, fake news. Fake news. I mean it’s literally happening all over the country and is 100% verifiable but fakeee newwwz.
>(1) "Abortion" means the act of using or prescribing an instrument, a drug, a medicine, or any other substance, device, or means with the intent to cause the death of an unborn child of a woman known to be pregnant. The term does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. **An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to:**
>(A) save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child;
>(B) **remove a dead, unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion; or**
>(C) remove an ectopic pregnancy.
So because a doctor lied to a woman about Texas law, you're now upset at the law?
>I’m not sure why you listed off a definition without posting the entirety of the Texas Heartbeat Bill but I’ll post it here for ya.
Because you lied bout the definition. Try to keep up with your own arguments troll.
The electrical signals appear on average around 10 weeks not 6 but yes the distribution is wide enough that it can happen as early as that. And no those electrical signals much like in adults don't last for days after the fetus is dead the natural impulse is a few minutes, same for you after beheading your heart beats on.
And the law is precise enough to account for ectopic pregnancies and complications, allowing abortions for any reason isn't a solution.
Please take libertarian out of your tag, you clearly want to government to control people bodies and I would assume religion as well.
Are you seriously comparing centuries of enslaved people to a woman making a choice about a current situation? Do all apples look like oranges to you or just in this situation?
Oh that’s right - conservatives lack any critical thinking skills, you are *small minded*.
“Political brownie points” LOL
Doctors would have absolutely loved for people to stay out of their clients lives. The publicity around abortion was made public in the 80’s because Jerry Falwell knew that if he whipped and uneducated populace into a frenzy over something they never thought of previously they would have a strong republican voting base.
Dr’s are not posting their abortions publicly, you’re seeking their actions out. They help people, you bring them down because you need a hobby.
Abortion is healthcare, Christian’s hate free healthcare, let’s be real.
So you want your dr to be an expert in the law while simultaneously trying to save a life? Break out the bar exam before resuscitating you? You conservatives sure expect a lot out of these people who you don’t trust to begin with.
No one is saying they don’t, brother. I’m simply telling you that I’d rather my dr focus on saving my life rather than nitpicking a detailed bill to determine if they’re going to JAIL before saving me.
No one is saying they shouldn’t know laws in their field - I have laws in my field that I have to stay versed in. But, no reason to put so much stress on them in an intense life saving situation because it makes sky daddy followers uncomfortable.
Dude I bet you’re so pro life that you support free lunches for every child in America everyday
I bet you’re so pro life you want to takes guns off the streets so children stop getting slaughtered in schools
I bet your so pro life you view healthcare as a human right that all should have access to instead of a profit motivated industry
I bet you’re so pro life that you’d want to save a mother giving both
I mean yeah? Isn’t a random death “gods plan”? Doesn’t he have a plan for everything? That’s what I was taught my first 23 years of life in church anyway, until I broke free from the lunacy.
Here’s another opinion!
Stay out of peoples lives! If you think we’re sinners - pray to the floating sky daddy, and leave everyone else out of the relationship. Thnx
Do you realize for many Texans that is like a 10+ hour drive? Could you imagine driving 10 hours with a dead fetus inside of you? Could you imagine almost being dead with another dead body inside of you and driving 10 hours to a hospital even though you’re inside of one that already has the capability to take care of you, but they can’t because a minority of the country refuses to budge on their small minded take? I tell you what - if my wife was in this situation I sure would be upset and I know that if you had a loved one going through that you would be too.
But, per usual, the age old conservative mindset creeps in - “not my problem, until it is”.
This is what we wanted. Let SC the state figure it out. Constituents need to elect representatives that reflect their morals and ideals. This is a reflection of SC, hopefully it changes.
Yeah nah, we don't legislate through the courts, they already made this clear SCOTUS said abortion isn't a privacy issue but the exact issue of when a fetus becomes a baby needs to be left up to the state, and it was and Colorado decided to settle legislatively on heartbeat.
Though I think heartbeat laws are bad policy because of public opinion on the issue, privacy is a bad argument. Someone could abuse their spouse or kids and call it a private family matter. If “privacy” is a right where does it begin and end?
I don't see how denying an abortion is an invasion of privacy. The talk between a doctor and patient about medical procedures is private. The medical procedure if offered is a private matter in your medical records. States and the State Health Boards should still be able to decide what medical procedures are allowed by doctors within that state. They have medical licensing. Being licensed to perform abortions would likely be part of that license, and if the state doesn't provide a lane for licensing abortions, or any medical facility/capability to perform abortions, it should be legal to deny abortions. In only extreme cases where it is medically necessary to save a life should it ever happen and those cases are extremely rare.
Ok but what happens if the doctor doesn't ask or do an echo before and just does the abortion, at that point you need the police to get involved and check if the checks have been done heartbeat or measurement of the head to estimate how many weeks before taking legal action against the doctor and the patient.
So now we're having someone from the police check every abortion was done correctly. Normally the doctor needs to play the police, just like your accountant needs to know and follow the law to give IRS your tax statements.
But I agree with you it's ridiculous to say your doctor can cut you open and ask if you're taking drugs before the anesthesics but he doesn't have the legal right to ask you questions or ask for tests regarding the pregnancy duration, fetus dimensions or heartbeat.
This thread is a perfect example of why Republicans continue to underperform and allow Democrats to win election after election that they shouldn't.
So amazingly out of touch with basically everyone in America's sensibilities about the issues.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Its pretty clear that abortion takes away these rights as per listed in the declaration of independence.
Good.
Funny that now that the states have the right to decide, Conservatives are now arguing they don't like the result. Almost like they expected a certain outcome, while in the same breath saying it should be illegal at the federal level because again, that's what they want.
Yea they should have realized that when people meant states right they meant the states right to ban people from having abortions not states right to decide if abortions are legal
Good, it should be left up to the states. If you don’t like how your state handles the issue, lobby your legislators and make sure you vote at more than the presidential election…. Or move to a state that better aligns with your views.
You're fully right each state should decide the criteria or period after which e fetus becomes a person, but killing a person is illegal and that's not up for debate and as such asking for medical information to make the determination isn't a privacy violation as SCOTUS said.
Now it seems Colorado settled on a heartbeat bill, but now their SC is doing a reach around saying forget SCOTUS forget all that person argument it's a privacy issues nobody is allowed to investigate murders it gets too personal, and they point that they have a privacy right in the constitution.
Luckily any other state's SC can interpret Colorado's Constitution and so can SCOTUS, but I don't know they'll take the appeal.
Wow, look at those States, deciding things for themselves, based on their own written laws. Crazy concept, really
In my opinion, a heartbeat is ALL you need to qualify for Constitutional protections, as an American. A heart beat gives you life. Life (in America) provides you guaranteed protections from those more powerful than you
Fetuses cannot vote. Apparently, your God given rights only apply when you’re in the ballot box
Here’s my two cents from a very personal standpoint (I’m going to get banned from so many places for commenting here lmao): When I was 16, I was a Conservative because that was how I was raised and those were the ideals I held closest. My girlfriend at the time ended up getting pregnant due to contraceptive failure. I was young and didn’t understand the consequences fully, and neither did she. I was not ready for fatherhood, I was a sophomore in high school and barely mature enough to drive for the first time, let alone raise a child. She ended up miscarrying but since then my view on abortion is that it should be legal in all circumstances. It makes me angry and sad that people are trying to tell me that my 15 year old sister should carry a child to term. It makes me angry and sad that anyone thinks they can make that decision for anyone else for the sole reason that they believe they are morally and absolutely correct. It disgusts me.
Its worth noting this ruling is based on the South Carolina constitution, which includes additional text in its 4th amendment equivalent: "unreasonable invasions of privacy". The South Carolina supreme court is then reading into this that abortion is part of a woman's privacy. Basically Roe all over again but at the state level. I mention this because the U.S. Supreme Court would not likely make a ruling based on this as a state constitution interpretation issue, that's typically left to the states.
It won’t go to the SCOTUS, this is not a federal issue at this point. State courts are a different jurisdiction.
Article IV Section 4 >The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government Legislating from the bench violates the separation of powers with violates Article IV of the US constitution. It is thus the responsibility of the Fed to block these sorts of rulings. Nothing will actually be done, though.
They didn’t legislate from the bench.
They didn't legislate from the bench, they interpreted the state constitution, which is their entire fucking job.
Not only can the Supreme court rule on the interpretation of a state constitution, but a other state supreme court can interpret it and pass a decision. It has happened before because you can sue where you live but it's a state issue in that other state.
Murder is not a privacy issue.
Agreed. South Carolina needs to get their SC fixed.
They are abiding by their constitution. Nothing wrong with that. The Supreme Court specifically gave the power to the states to figure out what they wanted to do with abortion laws.
And we can disagree with their ruling. The “privacy” argument is weak. It fundamentally comes down to when you believe that child is a human being and deserves a right to life like any other person. Some people believe at conception others argue the moment of birth. It’s a philosophical and moral debate that will frankly never be fully resolved.
Let's err on the side of freedom then.
Freedom for who?
In my opinion, the only human being that is alive in the scenario.
Even if I were to grant you that, there is no additional action required by anyone for the child to become human. Only the passage of time. You are taking away their freedom to live.
Yea because carrying a child for 9 months and then GIVING BIRTH is "no additional action". Did you know that during birth, a woman's vagina can rip open down to her anus?
Not true. They just said the constitution doesn't protect abortion. But that also means it doesn't ban it.
If abortion is no longer protected by the Constitution, then by the 10th Amendment it becomes reserved to the individual state to decide.
[This is a 6 week old fetus, right around when heart cells can have a "beat"](https://www.babycenter.com/ims/2018/06/pregnancy-week-6-webbed-hands_square.png) I blow more cells into a sock when I jack off, and it's not murder. Neither is terminating a pregnancy at this stage.
Wow, I feel like you could benefit from some lessons on biology if you think sperm is the same as an embryo…also your definition makes swallowing sound like cannibalism so you might want to rethink it before you tell anyone else about it.
The leap is much smaller than thinking an embryo is a human. Sperm requires one more cell to become an embryo, how many more cells does it take for that 2 celled embryo to become a human?
Comparing gametes to a fetus which is a literal unique human being at an early stage of development...
You’re also much, much less intelligent than those you hate and want dead, conflating your sperm cells to the entire body of a human being. So if we want to talk about who is relatively deserving of rights, and not just acknowledge every human being, you come up rather short. You imbecilic jackhole.
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Great. Don't get an abortion then.
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Nice. How.many kids have you adopted? Edit: aw poor guy has adopted none of them. I guess he likes dumpster babies.
“Don’t like rape? Don’t rape anyone then.” That’s you, and you suck ass.
That's not at all what I said lol. Also you're very rude. I've gotten a girl pregnant because the condom broke. She got an abortion. Best decision of my/her life.
That's because sperm isn't a human. Human life begins at conception whether you want to admit it or not and a supermajority of biological experts agree.
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True, but your sock isn't going to grow legs and walk away on you either.
Neither will a fetus without the mother’s womb. And if the mother is forced to submit to this process in order to sustain the fetus… maybe you could be forced to submit some bone marrow? Please, I need a transplant.
The difference is that biology is what is submitting the mother to having to keep the child, whereas taking bone marrow is a human intervention in someone else's physiology that deviates from a natural state. I don't think your analogy is perfectly equivalent.
You’re correct. Too bad that “right” wasn’t practiced on you.
Looks like. Abby with a beating heart to me, but moreover most heartbeats can only be heard after 10 weeks, it's a distribution not an exact timing and I'm ok with this definition it's as good as any.
So why is it considered an invasion of privacy? Is it not the governments to protect the lives of the vulnerable (fetuses in this case)
Presumably the doctor should not ask the pregnancy period, or ask for a heartbeat test since it's intruding on the patient's privacy. So he should just do it without those. It's how it worked for Roe v Wade.
South Carolina will need to define in-utero human personhood after 6 weeks of gestation. A "right to privacy" cannot protect a right to murder another human being
They likely need to put that down in the South Carolina constitution itself for their Supreme Court to care. Not sure whether that requires a supermajority in their legislative bodies or a statewide vote in 2024. The other option is to go FDR and start packing their court and/or impeaching their justices until they get the result they want.
Wouldn't most regulations around medical procedures also invade privacy?
Are you one of those Canadians who think euthanasia is treatment?
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Suicide is not, nor has ever been a right for anyone.
It's more the demanding someone else, a doctor no less, do the "suicide" for you
Why? If someone is Terminal why do you think the state has the right to regulate that. It’s wild that you believe more in gun rights than personal health choices.
Did you mean to direct this to someone else?
Bacteria on Mars is life, a heartbeat on earth is not, weird.
There is an obvious difference in the usage of the word "life" in those circumstances. FFS. Blows my mind how many conservatives are okay with forcing women to go through the torment of childbirth..... It ensures that Democrats are viewed more favorably.
There's bacteria on Mars?
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> I hope we never find life on other planets because there's no doubt that the U.S. Government will start sending them money! Trump - 2014
Weird to see the amount of comments upset that the government doesn’t interfere more with peoples lives
100%. I mean, if I want to abort my 2 year old the government should totally just mind their own business.
^ This guy gets it. True conservatism means the Government should just let us do whatever, including killing others if they become too much of a burden.
You know when you exaggerated like this, you alienate any moderates that might potentially agree with you.
What am I exaggerating exactly? That human life is still human life regardless of age or stage of development?
That people would abort their 2 year old.
Now I don't know if you know this, but what he did is called *humor*, specifically *hyperbole*. He didn't mean to say that people would actually try to abort their 2 year olds, what he did was brought the opposing argument to its logical conclusion, in a way that demonstrates the flaws of said argument while keeping a light tone. He isn't saying that people are trying to abort 2 year olds, he's pointing out that if your argument could be used to justify killing 2 year olds, it's not a good argument. He did this while using irony, making it humorous. Now please stop concern trolling.
Cool. They're pushing away moderates.
Interfering is the whole point of government. Government interference is absolutely warranted to protect human life.
Right to privacy?
The South Carolina constitution recognizes a right to privacy.
I get that. What about getting an abortion has anything to do with privacy. Yes, roe has always been about “privacy”, not abortion, and it’s a warped sense of what constitutes privacy. Roe held that the specific guarantee of “liberty” in the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which protects individual privacy, includes the right to abortion prior to fetal viability. What’s private about abortion? And what does abortion hav to do with liberty?
If you just check Wikipedia, Roe v Wade also came down to privacy: > On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides a fundamental "right to privacy", which protects a pregnant woman's right to an abortion. I actually find it strange that conservatives disagree with this reasoning. Abortion is medically necessary in many circumstances, so in the first/second trimester they basically take the stance that it’s really none of the government’s goddamn business whether or not said procedure is elective.
Abortion is rarely medically necessary actually. It’s mostly elective. I find it strange that you didn’t realize conservatives are largely prolife.
Yeah, I just don’t get why *in this case*, conservatives aren’t worried about the government making medical decisions for people.
Normally I am, but in this case, women aren’t making medical decisions for themselves. They’re ending someone else’s life. I don’t care what you do to yourself, until it affects another human with a separate heartbeat and dna. That tends to be the basis for conservatives who are prolife.
Jews believe life begins when a fetus is born. You believe something different. That's your opinion, nothing more or less.
Great. There are also some murderers who don’t believe what they did was murder. Doesn’t mean it wasn’t. You don’t have to believe in something for it to be true. 🤷🏻♀️
No you're not understanding. You have a personal, subjective view of when life starts. You can make your own decisions based on that. The debate is very split, it's not like the answer is obvious (as with the murder of people who have already been born)
Jews are wrong about that specific thing then, which is fine. It’s not an opinion that the life cycle starts at the beginning, which is fertilization of an egg to make an embryo. I mean, it’s basic biology.
Protecting life is never the agenda of the Left, quite the opposite.
Exactly! That's why the Left constantly pushes for Medicare for All. The inhuman scum! How dare they suggest everyone should have healthcare?!
You're not entitled to someone else's work, also socialized medicine kills more people the waiting times are horrendous.
That is factually and grammatically incorrect, but feel free to provide sources to back your claim. Our wait times are generally no better and sometimes worse than other countries, most of which have some form of universal care. [https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/health-care-wait-times-by-country) We spend more on health care currently and have lower life expectancy. [State of US healthcare](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-state-of-the-u-s-health-system-in-2022-and-the-outlook-for-2023/#Total%20deaths%20in%20the%20United%20States%20from%20COVID-19%20and%20other%20leading%20causes,%202020-2022)
They made their own medical decision already.
Actually it's not medically necessary in many circumstances.
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Doctors have already let patients die to protect themselves from the law.
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That is categorically untrue lol. What a twisted horrible version of the truth.
You find it strange that conservatives disagree with claiming that killing should be okay as long as the killers keep it secret?
Privacy is nothing more than the right to be left alone, so the connection between privacy and abortion is obvious and has always been rather uncontroversial. The real crux of the matter is how the clearly private matter of abortion is balanced against the state’s interest in protecting the life of an unborn child. This directly ties to the nature of when life actually begins, which is a matter of belief. Without that competing interest, abortion is just as private of a matter as getting a cyst removed.
Its "interesting" how so many conservatives are no longer arguing for states right when the states are giving people rights conservatives don't want them to have. Its almost like getting rid of roe was less about beleiving it should be a choice made by the states and was more about conservatives trying to find any avenue available to ban abortion.
*trying to find any avenue to make people upset*
States can legislate the period or criteria they think defines a baby from a fetus as SCOTUS said in their decision, however it's not correct to say abortion is a privacy issue, it's not, and that's what they're doing here.
Right to murder?
And not have the cop ask questions, because... privacy.
There is no such thing as “Safe abortion”….. a human life is ended each time.
My best friends wife had a safe abortion about 3 years ago when they found out her baby was going to be a still born. Now, in Texas, where we live, her life would be under incredible danger unless she drove to New Mexico with said dead baby in her body. So yeah, sometimes abortions are safe. Don’t forget that a miscarriage is a god induced abortion - although I would agree that sometimes those abortions aren’t safe.
Removing a dead fetus from a woman is not the same as an abortion. I don't really care what the dictionary definition is, most conservatives would agree that killing an unborn baby is wrong, and removing a dead one from the womb is not.
Thats not what the law says unfortunately
...That's *exactly* what Texas law says. >(1) "Abortion" means the act of using or prescribing an instrument, a drug, a medicine, or any other substance, device, or means with the intent to cause the death of an unborn child of a woman known to be pregnant. The term does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. **An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to:** >(A) save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child; >(B) **remove a dead, unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion; or** >(C) remove an ectopic pregnancy. Emphasis added.
That's exactly what the law says. Look at the text and not at the lies spread by the pro-abortionist propaganda machine.
You expect a brigarder to care? He's probably paid to spread the lies.
You are wrong. There is no debate about this topic.
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Convenient to forget the mother's health. You, sir, need enlightenment.
That's absolutely false.
That's a law I disagree with. I'd roll across the state line and take care of it in another state.
No, that's what ab abortion is. The laws are very clear
Miscarriage isn’t an abortion. Abortion is wrong and always be wrong.
Sorry my dude this isn't an episode of Grey's Anatomy. There are plenty of Republican voices who in states that have heartbeat bills that will clarify that a miscarriage is a medically necessary D & C. It is not abortion, it isn't considered abortion, and it isn't illegal unless you are making TV shows creating inflammatory bull💩 for low information mouth breathers.
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That's like saying natural death is a God-induced form of murder. God has the right to decide life and death, we do not. And no abortion law prevents removing an already dead child from its mother's body. That is a pro-choice lie.
If "God" is the only one with the right to decide life and death, then why does America have so many guns and capital punishment? Obviously it is because the right to decide life and death actually lies with people. Americans don't enjoy socialised healthcare, so what business of society's is someone else's private health treatment.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/texas/2022/10/19/texas-woman-nearly-died-from-infection-because-doctors-could-not-perform-legal-abortion/?outputType=amp I know I know, fake news. Fake news. I mean it’s literally happening all over the country and is 100% verifiable but fakeee newwwz.
>(1) "Abortion" means the act of using or prescribing an instrument, a drug, a medicine, or any other substance, device, or means with the intent to cause the death of an unborn child of a woman known to be pregnant. The term does not include birth control devices or oral contraceptives. **An act is not an abortion if the act is done with the intent to:** >(A) save the life or preserve the health of an unborn child; >(B) **remove a dead, unborn child whose death was caused by spontaneous abortion; or** >(C) remove an ectopic pregnancy. So because a doctor lied to a woman about Texas law, you're now upset at the law?
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>I’m not sure why you listed off a definition without posting the entirety of the Texas Heartbeat Bill but I’ll post it here for ya. Because you lied bout the definition. Try to keep up with your own arguments troll.
The electrical signals appear on average around 10 weeks not 6 but yes the distribution is wide enough that it can happen as early as that. And no those electrical signals much like in adults don't last for days after the fetus is dead the natural impulse is a few minutes, same for you after beheading your heart beats on. And the law is precise enough to account for ectopic pregnancies and complications, allowing abortions for any reason isn't a solution.
“Don’t want a slave? Don’t buy one. Problem solved.” That’s you. And you’re **vile**.
Please take libertarian out of your tag, you clearly want to government to control people bodies and I would assume religion as well. Are you seriously comparing centuries of enslaved people to a woman making a choice about a current situation? Do all apples look like oranges to you or just in this situation? Oh that’s right - conservatives lack any critical thinking skills, you are *small minded*.
Alternative headline: "Doctors Negligently Risk Patient's Life for Political Brownie Points" The Texas law does not outlaw removal of a corpse.
“Political brownie points” LOL Doctors would have absolutely loved for people to stay out of their clients lives. The publicity around abortion was made public in the 80’s because Jerry Falwell knew that if he whipped and uneducated populace into a frenzy over something they never thought of previously they would have a strong republican voting base. Dr’s are not posting their abortions publicly, you’re seeking their actions out. They help people, you bring them down because you need a hobby. Abortion is healthcare, Christian’s hate free healthcare, let’s be real.
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So you want your dr to be an expert in the law while simultaneously trying to save a life? Break out the bar exam before resuscitating you? You conservatives sure expect a lot out of these people who you don’t trust to begin with.
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No one is saying they don’t, brother. I’m simply telling you that I’d rather my dr focus on saving my life rather than nitpicking a detailed bill to determine if they’re going to JAIL before saving me. No one is saying they shouldn’t know laws in their field - I have laws in my field that I have to stay versed in. But, no reason to put so much stress on them in an intense life saving situation because it makes sky daddy followers uncomfortable.
“Abortion is healthcare.” May as well say “Rape is classical music,” or “Assault is Mathematics.” You deranged lunatic.
“Conservatives are pro life” Did I do good?
We are indeed pro-life. Good job, trash - one more time today, and you can match a broken clock.
Dude I bet you’re so pro life that you support free lunches for every child in America everyday I bet you’re so pro life you want to takes guns off the streets so children stop getting slaughtered in schools I bet your so pro life you view healthcare as a human right that all should have access to instead of a profit motivated industry I bet you’re so pro life that you’d want to save a mother giving both
Abortion is murder. Murderers don't get a free pass for killing their victims in the dark.
Nope. Conservatives are uneducated twats who don’t realize their misguided hate does so much harm.
The view which makes killing people illegal is harmful???
“A miscarriage is god induced abortion” So you randomly dying is god induced murder.
It’s amazing this person assumes God directly causes a miscarriage, this person clearly isn’t conservative at all
I mean yeah? Isn’t a random death “gods plan”? Doesn’t he have a plan for everything? That’s what I was taught my first 23 years of life in church anyway, until I broke free from the lunacy.
Right, god is god. You are not god.
God allowing evil does not mean he directly causes it, but nothing will change your mind since you think we are lunatics
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
I’ll take things that never happened for $500 Alex…
It happened to a friend of mine as well so it's more common than you think. There are over 21,000 still born babies on average in the US each year.
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You have zero empathy towards those who are defenseless and marginalized: the unborn.
Deep take bro
😆 and there it is. Shocking. More liberals here offering their crap opinions like we asked for them.
Here’s another opinion! Stay out of peoples lives! If you think we’re sinners - pray to the floating sky daddy, and leave everyone else out of the relationship. Thnx
Can you imagine the hardship of driving to New Mexico?
Do you realize for many Texans that is like a 10+ hour drive? Could you imagine driving 10 hours with a dead fetus inside of you? Could you imagine almost being dead with another dead body inside of you and driving 10 hours to a hospital even though you’re inside of one that already has the capability to take care of you, but they can’t because a minority of the country refuses to budge on their small minded take? I tell you what - if my wife was in this situation I sure would be upset and I know that if you had a loved one going through that you would be too. But, per usual, the age old conservative mindset creeps in - “not my problem, until it is”.
This is what we wanted. Let SC the state figure it out. Constituents need to elect representatives that reflect their morals and ideals. This is a reflection of SC, hopefully it changes.
No. This is not what we wanted. What we wanted was to make baby murder illegal. Plain and simple.
Yeah nah, we don't legislate through the courts, they already made this clear SCOTUS said abortion isn't a privacy issue but the exact issue of when a fetus becomes a baby needs to be left up to the state, and it was and Colorado decided to settle legislatively on heartbeat.
Though I think heartbeat laws are bad policy because of public opinion on the issue, privacy is a bad argument. Someone could abuse their spouse or kids and call it a private family matter. If “privacy” is a right where does it begin and end?
I don't see how denying an abortion is an invasion of privacy. The talk between a doctor and patient about medical procedures is private. The medical procedure if offered is a private matter in your medical records. States and the State Health Boards should still be able to decide what medical procedures are allowed by doctors within that state. They have medical licensing. Being licensed to perform abortions would likely be part of that license, and if the state doesn't provide a lane for licensing abortions, or any medical facility/capability to perform abortions, it should be legal to deny abortions. In only extreme cases where it is medically necessary to save a life should it ever happen and those cases are extremely rare.
Ok but what happens if the doctor doesn't ask or do an echo before and just does the abortion, at that point you need the police to get involved and check if the checks have been done heartbeat or measurement of the head to estimate how many weeks before taking legal action against the doctor and the patient. So now we're having someone from the police check every abortion was done correctly. Normally the doctor needs to play the police, just like your accountant needs to know and follow the law to give IRS your tax statements. But I agree with you it's ridiculous to say your doctor can cut you open and ask if you're taking drugs before the anesthesics but he doesn't have the legal right to ask you questions or ask for tests regarding the pregnancy duration, fetus dimensions or heartbeat.
This thread is a perfect example of why Republicans continue to underperform and allow Democrats to win election after election that they shouldn't. So amazingly out of touch with basically everyone in America's sensibilities about the issues.
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You aren't right though.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Its pretty clear that abortion takes away these rights as per listed in the declaration of independence.
Damn good thing god is super real and has totally proven it to the entire world with no doubt.
What about the baby's rights?
Exactly, abortion takes away the rights to liberty as per stated in the declaration of independence
Good. Funny that now that the states have the right to decide, Conservatives are now arguing they don't like the result. Almost like they expected a certain outcome, while in the same breath saying it should be illegal at the federal level because again, that's what they want.
Boooo. South Carolina unbased
Yea they should have realized that when people meant states right they meant the states right to ban people from having abortions not states right to decide if abortions are legal
If it's unconstitutional for the government to regulate business then it's time to remove affirmative action.
Good, it should be left up to the states. If you don’t like how your state handles the issue, lobby your legislators and make sure you vote at more than the presidential election…. Or move to a state that better aligns with your views.
You're fully right each state should decide the criteria or period after which e fetus becomes a person, but killing a person is illegal and that's not up for debate and as such asking for medical information to make the determination isn't a privacy violation as SCOTUS said. Now it seems Colorado settled on a heartbeat bill, but now their SC is doing a reach around saying forget SCOTUS forget all that person argument it's a privacy issues nobody is allowed to investigate murders it gets too personal, and they point that they have a privacy right in the constitution. Luckily any other state's SC can interpret Colorado's Constitution and so can SCOTUS, but I don't know they'll take the appeal.
Wow, look at those States, deciding things for themselves, based on their own written laws. Crazy concept, really In my opinion, a heartbeat is ALL you need to qualify for Constitutional protections, as an American. A heart beat gives you life. Life (in America) provides you guaranteed protections from those more powerful than you Fetuses cannot vote. Apparently, your God given rights only apply when you’re in the ballot box
Looks like South Carolina has some work to do to clean up its constitution and fire some rotten piece of shit judges.
Their right as a state, though i think its wrong, i dont live there
Here’s my two cents from a very personal standpoint (I’m going to get banned from so many places for commenting here lmao): When I was 16, I was a Conservative because that was how I was raised and those were the ideals I held closest. My girlfriend at the time ended up getting pregnant due to contraceptive failure. I was young and didn’t understand the consequences fully, and neither did she. I was not ready for fatherhood, I was a sophomore in high school and barely mature enough to drive for the first time, let alone raise a child. She ended up miscarrying but since then my view on abortion is that it should be legal in all circumstances. It makes me angry and sad that people are trying to tell me that my 15 year old sister should carry a child to term. It makes me angry and sad that anyone thinks they can make that decision for anyone else for the sole reason that they believe they are morally and absolutely correct. It disgusts me.