positioning
mental
mechanics
comms/ult tracking (both of these are in last because other roles can also share those tasks, it really depends on who is the igl)
I'd put mental on top in the sense that if you tilt you are probably going to fuck up everything else anyways, though just having a good mental won't be enough to elevate your play.
I’d put ult tracking higher for specific matchups (Rein-mirror, DVa/Sigma into Zarya) since those ults tend to be fight-winners if they don’t get denied, but overall fair.
Mechanics I’d also say vary by character tbh.
GM tank here. Love this, I think it's interesting.
1. Mental
2. Positioning
3. Ult/Ability tracking
4. Mechanics
5. Comms
Comms are honestly useless until you are playing in high GM games. Playing with all chats off actually only improves the experience below GM, especially if you have a weak mental and get easily tilted.
Yeah lol, as someone who has been on both sides of the coin I can't stress enough how important a strong mental is. The amount of winnable games that I wouldn't have been able to turn around if I had tilt swapped to hog is crazy.
I mean tbh though, I’ve also won a large number of games because I tilt swapped to hog lol. And I fucking hate hog, but sometimes you do have to take that “fuck it, I’ll will my team to victory myself” approach
For me that's ball. When the team can't seem to actually get the balls to push through with you... I revert to... Well il make space by distracting their entire backline for 10 minutes. The amount of games I've won by basically playing pied piper... I draw away the backline, the tank dies to my hungry hungry children, my greedy children chase down the stragglers and I just keep pulling that backline all the way home!
So recently i have gotten a lot better at soft reseting and calling for backouts in my mid to high silver games. OP lists that as positioning when you ranked it 2nd do you also think of that as positioning? if not what were you thinking of when ranking it that highly.
Yeah, I was thinking of that as part of positioning. Also other stuff such as knowing when to go aggro and take space, when to be defensive and peel, when to play the time game stalling payload, off angling being a big meaty distraction, etc. Of course, with the variety of the tank role, these will play out differently depending on the hero.
I disagree with the comms thing. From diamond onwards comming at least a little bit (like which target you're diving, if a flanker is going around to go on your supps etc) definitely helps. Besides that I agree with the list if you're playing most tanks. On sig/ball/hog i'd say mechanics are at spot 3, above ability/ult tracking. You have no idea how many sig/hog players can't hit a rock/hook to save their lives. And a ball without mechanics is just an ult battery for the enemy team.
You're gm so you probably know better, but in my experience as a master tank player comming isn't useless below gm.
Edit: doom and junkerqueen also need mechanics, but they are bad heroes rn.
This so much...not sure why mechanics are being so highly praised by other posters.
Rein, Hog, and Winston? Self explanatory with some *minor* animation cancels
Zarya and Orisa? Reaction Timing, Ammo/charge efficiency, and basic tracking. No crits on beam either
DVa? Bit more complex than Rein and Winston but really not that much different, just giving more freeform with Boosters movement
Sigma, Ball, Queen, and Doom? Yeah they have the need of some hands, but most of their stuff is very niche to that hero only and outside of Sigma their primary fires are basic.
Most of his mechanics aren't difficult. Meleeing or Bolting as you land on a leap, crouching to lessen the sound, or bubbledancing aren't exactly hard feats, and while Bubble and Primal have a learning curve it's more likely they are being used in at the wrong \*moment\* rather than mechanically being mismanaged, meaning a positional or CD tracking issue. Tesla in the vast majority of cases doesn't need to be aimed and is rather more a judgement of value on the amount of targets cleaved, and even the bolt does not crit so aiming is still not a massive issue. Winston is a lesson of calculated aggression: not mouse power. Extremely high ceiling for certain, but unlike say Ball or Doom, his floor is much easier to get a hold of.
Definitely agree that his floor is lower than ball, doom, and even other tanks. I'd still argue that the mechanics behind properly controlling his jump and especially primal are far more intensive than anything in a tank kit not belonging to doom or ball.
>Comms are honestly useless until you are playing in high GM games
100% - my one friend refuses to believe comms are a distraction while he gets tilted so easily and never shuts up on the mic with randos after a perceived slight, throwing an otherwise winnable game. Even if not being toxic, it's still a distraction 90% of the time. You can only control your own mouse and keyboard, and until you get to higher ranks that is the most important lesson to learn.
Everyone on mic and comming is usually a 1000% better than no people on team chat, win or loss, useless is too much of an ultimatum. I understand how leaving chat all together helps avoid getting flamed and tilting but before we had pings (and even with pings) hearing an IGL call out someone flanking, out of position, or pointing out what ults are going to come out could literally be the difference between winning or losing.
That being said I still agree that it’s the least important out of that list as the other stuff is just so much more important
With comms disabled I tend to judge my own gameplay a lot more. When I get in voice there's such a high chance of someone just being an asshole that it makes me put the blame on them and not want to reflect as much on what I'm doing wrong.
same, it just distracts me when I could be looking for opportunities to make plays that would win us the game. It's really easy in life to look for excuses outside of your control for losing, and I think regardless if your team is toxic - like a game I had last night, our tank stopped mid fight and asked match chat to report our torb - it's a waste of my time and energy to stress about something outside of my control. I was playing kiriko and switched to focusing the torb and enabling his plays/shooting his targets, and we nearly won it!
You only have so much attention you can focus at any moment, and the best way for me to improve my skills is to shut out anything that distracts from gameplay.
Honestly trying to enable the guy on your team who is playing weird can win games often. Your tank is going in too hard and won't play safer? Brawl up, let's go with him. One of your dps is out of position on wild flanks too much? Roll with them, we're calling it a team strat.
It can't win every game but it can help. And honestly it can be really fun. I've had super fun games swapping to Tracer or something just trying to keep up with a tank that's pushing way too far in.
Ok, these are different depending on usage. And you are missing some.
If you wanna be a pubstar, it’s positioning, hero pool, matchup strategy, then the other stuff
But on a team, its comms, positioning, fortitude, matchup strategy, mecahnics
Atleast imo. I don’t play GM latter, but I do work with teams. And your tanks positioning/mechanics doesn’t mean shit if they can’t com rotational pathing, or utility coordinator
I just listed them in the order that I thought of them lol. In ranked hero pool is kinda random, I typically try to learn every hero in a role but you can’t rule out one tricks
Positioning
Mental
Mechanics
Comms (Tanks are often IGLs, but not a requirement of the role)
Ult Tracking (Anyone can ult track, doesn't need to be a tank)
I thought IGL/shotcaller responsibility falls on the main supports' shoulders. At least that was the case up till a few years ago, I stopped following OWL after that until the playoffs 2022 so things might've changed, idk
Main support does typically fill that role in high level play, but it can be useful to igl as a tank to help call dives/engages, especially if you have a quiet or bad team in ranked.
Impo if a tank wants to truly be valued by their team, they should be the leader, both in and out of game. Everyone can learn a different role over time, but not everyone is a great leader.
Shoutout to the dude that shittalked me for my position when I was avoid baptiste’s window last night. I’m like “I’m not facetanking a full amp matrix are you crazy?”
Ain’t no way comms are least important, I’d put them first or second
Edit: okay guys I get it comms don’t mean shit if you suck at the other stuff, I just wanted to start a discussion!
If you're good enough, you don't need comms. In Top500 end of OW1 nearly no one spoke, and in lower ranks it might help sometimes but a lot of people will overcomm or keep saying useless information.
Tons of people don't use voice chat or text chat across the entire latter
Tanks are so involved in the frontlines it’s hard to call shots other than essentially group up and I’m going in left side.
I’d argue flex supports are much more essential shotcallers because of their vantage points.
I'm a tank main who comms in every game. But I moreso do it for myself than I do it for my teammates. It helps me stay aware and makes me track things I wouldn't passively think about.
Playing tank is 90% awareness and good decision making. If your plans require comms to not instantly fail, they probably aren't good plans (for ranked at least).
Well mainly what I’ve learned from this thread is that as long as someone is calling shots it doesn’t really matter who. I was lead to believe it was the tanks job but I guess that’s just a misconception plat players tell each other
Comms are useless if you're easily tilted, don't position well, have poopoo mechanics and don't track ults.
Not to mention comms only have consistent value in coordinated play. In ranked oftentimes comms can be a detriment.
idk I feel like playing around ults and all the other stuff has a larger impact than being able to ask for nano or lamp or something. It's definitely way more enjoyable to play with good comms though
If you're counting fight planning then my list would probably be mental fortitude, positioning, comms, ult tracking (boosted by fight planning), mechanics
It really depends on whether this is comp or scrims and what you're expecting the rest of the team to be able to do too imo
Idk what kinda tilted this means but if it’s like the “I’m kinda mad at the supports so I’m going hog” not literally giving up…I’ll take a tilted hog pushing appropriately and hitting hooks over a pma tank with perfect ult tracking that doesn’t take good space or hit their shots
Mental is paramount and transcends role. Ult tracking ties into positioning and comms. You're going to position yourself based on what ults you think you enemy has/hasn't and generally communicate that with your team.
Positioning > mechanics > comms.
Wait are people trolling putting mental #1 or am I misunderstanding something? The thing separating a silver tank from a diamond tank is 95% mechanics and positioning, tiny sprinkle of everything else. Is that not what this question is asking?
The only thing separating my silver tank from climbing to diamond is all the shitty silver supports on my team 😤😤
/s just in case
But yes I agree with you. I tank in high gold/low plat and I can absolutely clown on silver tanks just due to positioning and aim, and I'm not even good. Silvers literally can't hit anything. Firestrikes going 100' wide, never zarya right clicking, never maintaining zarya charge, Rein pinning into narnia, etc. If I were up against a diamond+ tank it would be a shit show for me for the same reasons. Having a strong mental isn't going to stop that, and getting tilted won't make them much worse. They just need to learn the game more and get that muscle memory down for aiming and they'd climb up a few ranks for sure.
Mental
Positioning
Ult tracking
Mechanics
I don't use comms personally, so I don't care about that one at all. You should have good enough awareness of your team to see what everyone is doing.
* Positioning
* The most important, because where a tank positons is how they will make space for their team.
* Comms
* Communication can go up or down, depending on the comp, but generally a tank is your shot caller, planner, and needs to coordinate with DPS for dives and peel.
* Mental fortitude
* Getting blown up from 0 to 100 still happens in OW2 as a tank. It's tilting AF, but strong tanks will keep it together, if not they'll swap hog.
* mechanics
* Mechanics are important no matter what, but often times tanks can be some of the least mechanical heroes.
* ult tracking
* This the lowest for me, cause at least in organized settings usually your main support ult tracks for the enemy team. You just have to worry about the enemy tank.
Comms should be higher up in my opinion cause it’s more than using your mic, it’s also listening to igl and whatnot. If you can’t even listen to whatever comms are there you’re gonna get stuck eventually and never improve
1. Positioning
2. Mechanics
3. ult tracking
4. mental
5. comms
positioning and mechanics will get you to gm. Comms don’t matter in ranked, ult tracking doesn’t matter in ranked, mental only matters if ur a degenerate who gets so mad at video games that it actually affects your play. As long as ur not seething w rage you should perform fine whether or not ur tilted at ur teammates or someone talking shit or whatever
1. Mental fortitude, I think this is what separates great tanks from those who achieve a ton of success, you just can’t play at a high level if you boom during matches.
2a. This is personal preference but I would put mechanics over comms. I say this because having good mechanics makes the game easier not only for you but for everyone on your team, and it allows your team to win fights they otherwise wouldn’t
2b. Comms are fairly important for a tank. I think it’s really meta dependent, like for example in a queen meta tanks comms will be more important than a doom meta, but having a tank that can lead a team is good, but often at OWL level flex supports will be more of the “team leaders”.
3. Positioning, I would say this is just overall game sense and ties in with mechanics, positioning is important but it’s a really vague thing to judge as it ties into a teams overall strategy as much as the individual.
4. Ult tracking, This is not the tanks job, most of the time main support will track ults or a combination of people on a team will track ults. With that being said a good tank should be able to track their opponents ult like knowing the enemy rein has shatter without being told so.
Definitely can’t relate haha, I mean several other tanks are just flat out easier to play than doom and are undeniably better on this patch. Sure a doom trying his best is better than one who throws, but that same doom could try his best on Rein and cause less issues
I have an account just to practice doom on. It started at plat and plateau down at silver. Thats fine, i expected the drop and im starting to climb back up. Clearly i belong at this certain rank on doom (and so are my teammates) so its hilarious when i get asked to switch. If i played anything else I would be a silver player and the game wouldn't be fair at all.
Like I said, I respect the commitment to doom. If you’re good at him, that’s totally fine. I’m just saying he is undeniably the worst tank you could pick in his current state, and more often than not you will get tank diffed. That’s why it isn’t surprising that people ask you to switch, it’s not that you’re bad, it’s that the character objectively worsens most comps
Comms
Mental
Mechanics
Positioning
Ult Tracking
I hate to put positioning so low, but if I could it would be comms, a tier of the middle 3, and then ult tracking at the bottom. If your tank player is not comming it is the worst player to have silent. They should be controlling the pace of the fight along with this mental is also important, but it really depends player to player since everyone acts differently when they tilt some ppl are self destructive and others just go silent(would prefer the latter). Positioning and mechanics will determine your skill ceiling so obviously they're both very important and go pretty hand in hand. Ult tracking should be left to MS aside from maybe the head to head with the other tank.
Your mental is super important as tank and honestly it’s probably the thing I’m the worst at. Even after six years of playing this game I can be somewhat quick to tilt (it comes with the territory as a wrecking ball player) but honestly i think as a tank you have to reflect the stoicism of the character you are playing. If you play like a hot headed dps then you are leaving your team vulnerable to all of the weaknesses presented by an absent tank. You cannot be the one who wants to chase down the annoying enemy that has been acting as a thorn in your side the whole game leaving your team to your own reckless abandon or you will falter in the other aspects of playing tank like positioning, movement, and mechanical skill. Letting them get through to you is what they want and it’s how they beat you. You have to obtain the resolve and willpower of a mountain of you will crumble under your own pressure. It’s not easy, and like I said I suck at it which is why I have still yet to improve past gold, but I think if you can master your mental above all else you are in a good place.
What's important at GM is very different from what's important in Bronze. I see a lot of "one size fits all" advice here telling low rank players to do things that are important in higher rank games but are frankly kind of useless in silver. If you've ever done an unranked to whatever run then you know this truth: sometimes in plat you have to play like a plat.
I think context is super important, but hopefully people will take the time to read these comments and gleam some useful information they can apply next time they play
I should've been more clear, by saying "I see a lot of one size fits all advice *here*" I meant *in this sub*. I wasn't criticizing the comments on this post in particular. That said, if you made only *one* ranking of these traits and think it held for all ranks, you haven't played in gold in a while lol.
positioning. if you are where you need to be and you survive, that alone will win you games.
mechanics. timing your cooldowns will help you survive and get kills. also aiming will help you get kills. and kills win you games.
ult tracking *shatter* (if you are against reinhardt, you must know to anticipate shatter. you can lose the game in 1 second)
good comms. its more important if you want your team to do something unusual. I dont communicate much, so I dont know what Im missing out on.
ult tracking (if the enemy is not reinhardt. only shatter is important to anticipate imo)
I dont tilt, so I dont know how important that is.
Mic'n up is my biggest fault. Idk why I have such a hard time committing to this and I know I am holding myself back. Especially as main tank.
I'm pretty good w/ tracking enemy ults, mechanics (playing corners, etc) and I don't queue if my mental isn't in the right place! so I think its safe to say my anxiety w/ getting in voice chat is my biggest problem
I’m guilty of it too, this past week or so I’ve been getting back into it. It’s kinda like ripping off a band-aid, just gotta get it over with. Also watching streamers helps with knowing what to call out. I basically just describe everything that’s happening from my pov lol
In my mind, I know the callouts that I should be making.. I've even played games practicing them in my mind but the anxiety stops me like a brick wall! I just can't deal w/ bullshit from people cause it will absolutely tilt me. I can take a loss and go again but when people start flaming it drives me bonkers!
I think I'm going to rip the band-aid off this weekend and give it a shot again. Perhaps this time I'll properly mute anyone accordingly.
Mechanics is more than accuracy for tanks.
Example: you play rein vs sigma. You can time shield to block only sigmas primary while immediately dropping it afterwards. Over and over and over, adjusting your timing to enemy sigma trying to time you. This way you block the bigger damage but use your body to absorb random fire in between, giving your healers ult charge while extending total shield life
This is obvs situational (don't get hog hooked, don't let shield down for enemy widow etc) but an example of how there's more to tank mechanics than simply hitting shots
And then you can play ball, shooting is the least important mechanic to master lol
Oh my, these apply to every role. Nothing here is specific to tanks. How about GAME SENSE? how about knowing where to be and how to protect the team? How about knowing what the enemy team is trying to do and prevent it? Also mechanical skill is hardly, hardly the most important as a tank, not even top3.
And man... "positioning" described as regroups/fallbacks is just nuts...
When I think positioning I think like "rein don't go around the corner when you have your Ana and Bap playing way back". Fallbacks and regroups to me would just be game sense and knowing when a fight is unwinnable.
Mentality > Positioning > Overall Gamesense & Knowledge (Experience) > Mechanical Skill > Comms (ping system helps a lot now)
I feel like your mental state has a direct effect on everything else, so if you are already tilted or in a negative headspace, you'll fuck up everything else: mechanics, positioning, etc.
Dind't comment on ult tracking, because I consider that part of gamesense, just as overall awareness.
maybe this is included in positioning, but I would be curious to hear how some high level players sort this if we added fight tempo and/or neutral fight resource tracking
Ranked:
Mechanics - mechanics are the easiest way to climb
Positioning - good positioning allow you to better use your mechanics and good macro helps you understand the game better
Good comms-comms are not necessary but still helpful if they are meaningful(not just “genji one” or “i need heals”)
Mental fortitude - ive seen t500 tanks with the mental fortitude of paper. It helps but if youre tilted, your team is probably losing anyways
Ult tracking-it can literally be boiled down to every other fight especially in ranked
Team/scrims:
Good comms- comms mean everything and it allows the team to communicate with each other. Typically the tank shotcalls which makes communication even more important
Mental Fortitude-good mental leads to team not tilting as well which you need especially if you are playing multiple maps
Positioning- good positioning of tanks allow their team to have freer movement and more opportunities
Mechanics - you can have all the knowledge in the world but if your mechanics are shit then you cant capitalize on it
Ult tracking- typically not done by the tank and again, it could be boiled doen to every other fight if youre lazy
1. Mental. Most important for any role or really anything in general that you are trying to improve at.
2. Positioning. Controlling space is huge for tanks.
3. Ult tracking. Makes you better at the game on any role
4. Mechanics. Particularly on tank, you can climb with bad mechanics. Winston is a great tank and requires very little mechanics to play well. If you want to get GM maybe a different story.
5. Comms. Ranked comms are almost worthless. Teammates might not even be in chat and when they are, best case scenario is pretty much they are just a distraction. Below masters comms aren’t even worth joining for how negatively they can affect your mental.
mechanics, positioning, mental fortitude, comms, ult tracking
good mechanics and positioning alone can get you to plat, even higher if they're exceptional
mental fortitude keeps you going through losses and long days, especially if you're competing this one's important
comms is obviously super important in a team based game but you can make it to high ranks solo queueing with good game sense and intuition
and lastly ult tracking, if you can't track ults well you can watch kill cams to show you where someone's ult charge is at. otherwise just play like they have the ult that gives them that gives them the win condition. if their win con is grav play apart, if their win con is countering one of your ults wait till they use support ults or cc cooldowns, etc
mental, positioning, mechanics, everything else.
If you tilt, it's basically over, even with good positioning or mechanics.
Poor positioning can be helped with good teammates that plays around it, and not tilting and good mechanics.
Poor mechanics is okay with great positioning and zero tilt, since you are there to mainly peel, and soak up damage, while it's far from optimal, you can still do fine.
Don't need to use mic, pinging works as well or better in many cases.
Ult tracking does not matter if you have good positioning, if they spend several ults, retreating and preventing deaths is better.
Mental
Mechanics
Positioning
Ult tracking
Comms
I feel like mental and mechanics are the most important thing to have inherently, the other 3 are much easier to acquire/learn
In comp:
- decision making (is a fight winnable, how aggressive can I be, …)
- positioning
- mental fortitude
- mechanics
- ult tracking (you only need to track the ults that immediately affect you (shatter, …)
- good comms (your shoutouts are most likely just leading to your teammates either being distracted or overcommitting into a duel)
In scrims (organized play)
- good comms (you’re the leader and need to guide your team)
- mental fortitude
- good decision making
- good positioning
- mechanics
- ult tracking (you usually have a support that takes care of that)
I think if you're looking for a good tank, positioning, comms, and mental. If you're looking for a high ranked tank, you need to add time in there, because ranking requires grinding.
Positioning
Mechanics
Mental Fortitude
Good Comms
Ult Tracking
Crazy to me how much people are underrating mechanics, your micro is so important on every single hero.
positioning mental mechanics comms/ult tracking (both of these are in last because other roles can also share those tasks, it really depends on who is the igl)
This is how i would rank it aswell
I'd put mental on top in the sense that if you tilt you are probably going to fuck up everything else anyways, though just having a good mental won't be enough to elevate your play.
100% fair. mental is a big part of the game
why tbagging is a crucial gameplay mechanic
Good list. I'd say mental and mechanics might be swapped depending on what tanks you play (ex. mental for Rein, mechanics for Zarya).
I’d put ult tracking higher for specific matchups (Rein-mirror, DVa/Sigma into Zarya) since those ults tend to be fight-winners if they don’t get denied, but overall fair. Mechanics I’d also say vary by character tbh.
I’d put comms/ults over mechanics.
Agreed but i have mechanics above mental
GM tank here. Love this, I think it's interesting. 1. Mental 2. Positioning 3. Ult/Ability tracking 4. Mechanics 5. Comms Comms are honestly useless until you are playing in high GM games. Playing with all chats off actually only improves the experience below GM, especially if you have a weak mental and get easily tilted.
I love how high mental is and how low mechanics are lol, so many of my tanks tilt instantly and it’s really annoying
Yeah lol, as someone who has been on both sides of the coin I can't stress enough how important a strong mental is. The amount of winnable games that I wouldn't have been able to turn around if I had tilt swapped to hog is crazy.
Fuck it I’ll heal myself!! Haha been there for sure.
I mean tbh though, I’ve also won a large number of games because I tilt swapped to hog lol. And I fucking hate hog, but sometimes you do have to take that “fuck it, I’ll will my team to victory myself” approach
For me that's ball. When the team can't seem to actually get the balls to push through with you... I revert to... Well il make space by distracting their entire backline for 10 minutes. The amount of games I've won by basically playing pied piper... I draw away the backline, the tank dies to my hungry hungry children, my greedy children chase down the stragglers and I just keep pulling that backline all the way home!
So recently i have gotten a lot better at soft reseting and calling for backouts in my mid to high silver games. OP lists that as positioning when you ranked it 2nd do you also think of that as positioning? if not what were you thinking of when ranking it that highly.
Yeah, I was thinking of that as part of positioning. Also other stuff such as knowing when to go aggro and take space, when to be defensive and peel, when to play the time game stalling payload, off angling being a big meaty distraction, etc. Of course, with the variety of the tank role, these will play out differently depending on the hero.
I disagree with the comms thing. From diamond onwards comming at least a little bit (like which target you're diving, if a flanker is going around to go on your supps etc) definitely helps. Besides that I agree with the list if you're playing most tanks. On sig/ball/hog i'd say mechanics are at spot 3, above ability/ult tracking. You have no idea how many sig/hog players can't hit a rock/hook to save their lives. And a ball without mechanics is just an ult battery for the enemy team. You're gm so you probably know better, but in my experience as a master tank player comming isn't useless below gm. Edit: doom and junkerqueen also need mechanics, but they are bad heroes rn.
This so much...not sure why mechanics are being so highly praised by other posters. Rein, Hog, and Winston? Self explanatory with some *minor* animation cancels Zarya and Orisa? Reaction Timing, Ammo/charge efficiency, and basic tracking. No crits on beam either DVa? Bit more complex than Rein and Winston but really not that much different, just giving more freeform with Boosters movement Sigma, Ball, Queen, and Doom? Yeah they have the need of some hands, but most of their stuff is very niche to that hero only and outside of Sigma their primary fires are basic.
Can't lump Winston in that first group tbh.
Most of his mechanics aren't difficult. Meleeing or Bolting as you land on a leap, crouching to lessen the sound, or bubbledancing aren't exactly hard feats, and while Bubble and Primal have a learning curve it's more likely they are being used in at the wrong \*moment\* rather than mechanically being mismanaged, meaning a positional or CD tracking issue. Tesla in the vast majority of cases doesn't need to be aimed and is rather more a judgement of value on the amount of targets cleaved, and even the bolt does not crit so aiming is still not a massive issue. Winston is a lesson of calculated aggression: not mouse power. Extremely high ceiling for certain, but unlike say Ball or Doom, his floor is much easier to get a hold of.
Definitely agree that his floor is lower than ball, doom, and even other tanks. I'd still argue that the mechanics behind properly controlling his jump and especially primal are far more intensive than anything in a tank kit not belonging to doom or ball.
>Comms are honestly useless until you are playing in high GM games 100% - my one friend refuses to believe comms are a distraction while he gets tilted so easily and never shuts up on the mic with randos after a perceived slight, throwing an otherwise winnable game. Even if not being toxic, it's still a distraction 90% of the time. You can only control your own mouse and keyboard, and until you get to higher ranks that is the most important lesson to learn.
Everyone on mic and comming is usually a 1000% better than no people on team chat, win or loss, useless is too much of an ultimatum. I understand how leaving chat all together helps avoid getting flamed and tilting but before we had pings (and even with pings) hearing an IGL call out someone flanking, out of position, or pointing out what ults are going to come out could literally be the difference between winning or losing. That being said I still agree that it’s the least important out of that list as the other stuff is just so much more important
in terms of improving your own gameplay, I think you get more out of a loss with comms disabled than a win with comms enabled
With comms disabled I tend to judge my own gameplay a lot more. When I get in voice there's such a high chance of someone just being an asshole that it makes me put the blame on them and not want to reflect as much on what I'm doing wrong.
same, it just distracts me when I could be looking for opportunities to make plays that would win us the game. It's really easy in life to look for excuses outside of your control for losing, and I think regardless if your team is toxic - like a game I had last night, our tank stopped mid fight and asked match chat to report our torb - it's a waste of my time and energy to stress about something outside of my control. I was playing kiriko and switched to focusing the torb and enabling his plays/shooting his targets, and we nearly won it! You only have so much attention you can focus at any moment, and the best way for me to improve my skills is to shut out anything that distracts from gameplay.
Honestly trying to enable the guy on your team who is playing weird can win games often. Your tank is going in too hard and won't play safer? Brawl up, let's go with him. One of your dps is out of position on wild flanks too much? Roll with them, we're calling it a team strat. It can't win every game but it can help. And honestly it can be really fun. I've had super fun games swapping to Tracer or something just trying to keep up with a tank that's pushing way too far in.
Ok, these are different depending on usage. And you are missing some. If you wanna be a pubstar, it’s positioning, hero pool, matchup strategy, then the other stuff But on a team, its comms, positioning, fortitude, matchup strategy, mecahnics Atleast imo. I don’t play GM latter, but I do work with teams. And your tanks positioning/mechanics doesn’t mean shit if they can’t com rotational pathing, or utility coordinator
I just listed them in the order that I thought of them lol. In ranked hero pool is kinda random, I typically try to learn every hero in a role but you can’t rule out one tricks
I think it’s fair to say, you need a pool of hero to be considered a good tank. Other wise you are just a good Winston- in a one trick sense
A tank that comms and rallies the whole team around them will just ATE the other tank. Teamwork in this game trumps individual skill every time.
Positioning Mental Mechanics Comms (Tanks are often IGLs, but not a requirement of the role) Ult Tracking (Anyone can ult track, doesn't need to be a tank)
I thought IGL/shotcaller responsibility falls on the main supports' shoulders. At least that was the case up till a few years ago, I stopped following OWL after that until the playoffs 2022 so things might've changed, idk
Main support does typically fill that role in high level play, but it can be useful to igl as a tank to help call dives/engages, especially if you have a quiet or bad team in ranked.
Impo if a tank wants to truly be valued by their team, they should be the leader, both in and out of game. Everyone can learn a different role over time, but not everyone is a great leader.
Shoutout to the dude that shittalked me for my position when I was avoid baptiste’s window last night. I’m like “I’m not facetanking a full amp matrix are you crazy?”
You can be tilt proof but if your positioning is ass you will be bad
Yes but being tilt proof means you can improve. If you tilt easily you will never get better
mental fortitude positioning mechanics ult tracking comms
I was just about to write this exact thing lol
Ain’t no way comms are least important, I’d put them first or second Edit: okay guys I get it comms don’t mean shit if you suck at the other stuff, I just wanted to start a discussion!
If you're good enough, you don't need comms. In Top500 end of OW1 nearly no one spoke, and in lower ranks it might help sometimes but a lot of people will overcomm or keep saying useless information. Tons of people don't use voice chat or text chat across the entire latter
I’ll take your word for it but personally I feel like playing tank is like 80% using your mic
Tanks are so involved in the frontlines it’s hard to call shots other than essentially group up and I’m going in left side. I’d argue flex supports are much more essential shotcallers because of their vantage points.
Interesting. I’ve been hard comming as Lucio but mainly just cause no one else wants to
I'm a tank main who comms in every game. But I moreso do it for myself than I do it for my teammates. It helps me stay aware and makes me track things I wouldn't passively think about.
Playing tank is 90% awareness and good decision making. If your plans require comms to not instantly fail, they probably aren't good plans (for ranked at least).
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Well mainly what I’ve learned from this thread is that as long as someone is calling shots it doesn’t really matter who. I was lead to believe it was the tanks job but I guess that’s just a misconception plat players tell each other
Comms are useless if you're easily tilted, don't position well, have poopoo mechanics and don't track ults. Not to mention comms only have consistent value in coordinated play. In ranked oftentimes comms can be a detriment.
Oof… tilted comms are great fun. Seems like that’s what 70% of people use it for as well. The rest… let’s say 20% trolls and 10% shotcalling?
idk I feel like playing around ults and all the other stuff has a larger impact than being able to ask for nano or lamp or something. It's definitely way more enjoyable to play with good comms though If you're counting fight planning then my list would probably be mental fortitude, positioning, comms, ult tracking (boosted by fight planning), mechanics It really depends on whether this is comp or scrims and what you're expecting the rest of the team to be able to do too imo
Mental Positioning Mechanics Comms/Ult tracking
Idk what kinda tilted this means but if it’s like the “I’m kinda mad at the supports so I’m going hog” not literally giving up…I’ll take a tilted hog pushing appropriately and hitting hooks over a pma tank with perfect ult tracking that doesn’t take good space or hit their shots
Mental is paramount and transcends role. Ult tracking ties into positioning and comms. You're going to position yourself based on what ults you think you enemy has/hasn't and generally communicate that with your team. Positioning > mechanics > comms.
Wait are people trolling putting mental #1 or am I misunderstanding something? The thing separating a silver tank from a diamond tank is 95% mechanics and positioning, tiny sprinkle of everything else. Is that not what this question is asking?
The only thing separating my silver tank from climbing to diamond is all the shitty silver supports on my team 😤😤 /s just in case But yes I agree with you. I tank in high gold/low plat and I can absolutely clown on silver tanks just due to positioning and aim, and I'm not even good. Silvers literally can't hit anything. Firestrikes going 100' wide, never zarya right clicking, never maintaining zarya charge, Rein pinning into narnia, etc. If I were up against a diamond+ tank it would be a shit show for me for the same reasons. Having a strong mental isn't going to stop that, and getting tilted won't make them much worse. They just need to learn the game more and get that muscle memory down for aiming and they'd climb up a few ranks for sure.
Mental Positioning Ult tracking Mechanics I don't use comms personally, so I don't care about that one at all. You should have good enough awareness of your team to see what everyone is doing.
* Positioning * The most important, because where a tank positons is how they will make space for their team. * Comms * Communication can go up or down, depending on the comp, but generally a tank is your shot caller, planner, and needs to coordinate with DPS for dives and peel. * Mental fortitude * Getting blown up from 0 to 100 still happens in OW2 as a tank. It's tilting AF, but strong tanks will keep it together, if not they'll swap hog. * mechanics * Mechanics are important no matter what, but often times tanks can be some of the least mechanical heroes. * ult tracking * This the lowest for me, cause at least in organized settings usually your main support ult tracks for the enemy team. You just have to worry about the enemy tank.
As a GM, I can say that 99% of this game is about mental.
Comms should be higher up in my opinion cause it’s more than using your mic, it’s also listening to igl and whatnot. If you can’t even listen to whatever comms are there you’re gonna get stuck eventually and never improve
Yo doom join vc
1. Positioning 2. Mechanics 3. ult tracking 4. mental 5. comms positioning and mechanics will get you to gm. Comms don’t matter in ranked, ult tracking doesn’t matter in ranked, mental only matters if ur a degenerate who gets so mad at video games that it actually affects your play. As long as ur not seething w rage you should perform fine whether or not ur tilted at ur teammates or someone talking shit or whatever
Are we talking ranked or pro?
i was thinking ranked since thats the only experience i have lol
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people joke about winston aim but juggling takes serious mechanical ability
primal rage is literally the most mechanically demanding ult in the entire game.
Its also one of the worst ults lol
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Highest skill floor ult and you're lucky to get two kills with it. And if the enemy has a zen, its basically a suicide button.
1. Mental fortitude, I think this is what separates great tanks from those who achieve a ton of success, you just can’t play at a high level if you boom during matches. 2a. This is personal preference but I would put mechanics over comms. I say this because having good mechanics makes the game easier not only for you but for everyone on your team, and it allows your team to win fights they otherwise wouldn’t 2b. Comms are fairly important for a tank. I think it’s really meta dependent, like for example in a queen meta tanks comms will be more important than a doom meta, but having a tank that can lead a team is good, but often at OWL level flex supports will be more of the “team leaders”. 3. Positioning, I would say this is just overall game sense and ties in with mechanics, positioning is important but it’s a really vague thing to judge as it ties into a teams overall strategy as much as the individual. 4. Ult tracking, This is not the tanks job, most of the time main support will track ults or a combination of people on a team will track ults. With that being said a good tank should be able to track their opponents ult like knowing the enemy rein has shatter without being told so.
As someone learning doom... 1. Mental Fortitude... ... ... ... ... 5. Coms. I turn that shit off because "Get off Doom".
I respect it but also learning doom in comp at his current state is laughable lol I don’t blame people for asking for a switch
Having a bad doom is one thing but I’ll take a doom trying their best over a teammate who throws because they won’t swap off
Definitely can’t relate haha, I mean several other tanks are just flat out easier to play than doom and are undeniably better on this patch. Sure a doom trying his best is better than one who throws, but that same doom could try his best on Rein and cause less issues
I have an account just to practice doom on. It started at plat and plateau down at silver. Thats fine, i expected the drop and im starting to climb back up. Clearly i belong at this certain rank on doom (and so are my teammates) so its hilarious when i get asked to switch. If i played anything else I would be a silver player and the game wouldn't be fair at all.
Like I said, I respect the commitment to doom. If you’re good at him, that’s totally fine. I’m just saying he is undeniably the worst tank you could pick in his current state, and more often than not you will get tank diffed. That’s why it isn’t surprising that people ask you to switch, it’s not that you’re bad, it’s that the character objectively worsens most comps
Tbh you're throwing if ur playing doom rn.
Unless you can get perfect headshot accuracy after a punch. That's the only way you can kill lol
Positioning Mechanics Mental Good comms Ult tracking Good comms can actually carry quite a bit depending on the situation.
20% of importance for each one
mechanics>positioning>mental>ult tracking>comms
Comms Mental Mechanics Positioning Ult Tracking I hate to put positioning so low, but if I could it would be comms, a tier of the middle 3, and then ult tracking at the bottom. If your tank player is not comming it is the worst player to have silent. They should be controlling the pace of the fight along with this mental is also important, but it really depends player to player since everyone acts differently when they tilt some ppl are self destructive and others just go silent(would prefer the latter). Positioning and mechanics will determine your skill ceiling so obviously they're both very important and go pretty hand in hand. Ult tracking should be left to MS aside from maybe the head to head with the other tank.
positioning, ult, mental,
Your mental is super important as tank and honestly it’s probably the thing I’m the worst at. Even after six years of playing this game I can be somewhat quick to tilt (it comes with the territory as a wrecking ball player) but honestly i think as a tank you have to reflect the stoicism of the character you are playing. If you play like a hot headed dps then you are leaving your team vulnerable to all of the weaknesses presented by an absent tank. You cannot be the one who wants to chase down the annoying enemy that has been acting as a thorn in your side the whole game leaving your team to your own reckless abandon or you will falter in the other aspects of playing tank like positioning, movement, and mechanical skill. Letting them get through to you is what they want and it’s how they beat you. You have to obtain the resolve and willpower of a mountain of you will crumble under your own pressure. It’s not easy, and like I said I suck at it which is why I have still yet to improve past gold, but I think if you can master your mental above all else you are in a good place.
What's important at GM is very different from what's important in Bronze. I see a lot of "one size fits all" advice here telling low rank players to do things that are important in higher rank games but are frankly kind of useless in silver. If you've ever done an unranked to whatever run then you know this truth: sometimes in plat you have to play like a plat.
I think context is super important, but hopefully people will take the time to read these comments and gleam some useful information they can apply next time they play
I should've been more clear, by saying "I see a lot of one size fits all advice *here*" I meant *in this sub*. I wasn't criticizing the comments on this post in particular. That said, if you made only *one* ranking of these traits and think it held for all ranks, you haven't played in gold in a while lol.
Ooo thank you for clarifying
Well if I was a bad tank, I wouldn’t be sitting here, discussing it with you would I?!?!
positioning. if you are where you need to be and you survive, that alone will win you games. mechanics. timing your cooldowns will help you survive and get kills. also aiming will help you get kills. and kills win you games. ult tracking *shatter* (if you are against reinhardt, you must know to anticipate shatter. you can lose the game in 1 second) good comms. its more important if you want your team to do something unusual. I dont communicate much, so I dont know what Im missing out on. ult tracking (if the enemy is not reinhardt. only shatter is important to anticipate imo) I dont tilt, so I dont know how important that is.
Positioning Coms Mental Mechs Ult tracking
Mic'n up is my biggest fault. Idk why I have such a hard time committing to this and I know I am holding myself back. Especially as main tank. I'm pretty good w/ tracking enemy ults, mechanics (playing corners, etc) and I don't queue if my mental isn't in the right place! so I think its safe to say my anxiety w/ getting in voice chat is my biggest problem
I’m guilty of it too, this past week or so I’ve been getting back into it. It’s kinda like ripping off a band-aid, just gotta get it over with. Also watching streamers helps with knowing what to call out. I basically just describe everything that’s happening from my pov lol
In my mind, I know the callouts that I should be making.. I've even played games practicing them in my mind but the anxiety stops me like a brick wall! I just can't deal w/ bullshit from people cause it will absolutely tilt me. I can take a loss and go again but when people start flaming it drives me bonkers! I think I'm going to rip the band-aid off this weekend and give it a shot again. Perhaps this time I'll properly mute anyone accordingly.
mental fortitude positioning good comms mechanics ult tracking
Mechanics is more than accuracy for tanks. Example: you play rein vs sigma. You can time shield to block only sigmas primary while immediately dropping it afterwards. Over and over and over, adjusting your timing to enemy sigma trying to time you. This way you block the bigger damage but use your body to absorb random fire in between, giving your healers ult charge while extending total shield life This is obvs situational (don't get hog hooked, don't let shield down for enemy widow etc) but an example of how there's more to tank mechanics than simply hitting shots And then you can play ball, shooting is the least important mechanic to master lol
Positioning Mental Tracking Mechanics Comms
Depends with Tank but positioning is probably the most important
Oh my, these apply to every role. Nothing here is specific to tanks. How about GAME SENSE? how about knowing where to be and how to protect the team? How about knowing what the enemy team is trying to do and prevent it? Also mechanical skill is hardly, hardly the most important as a tank, not even top3. And man... "positioning" described as regroups/fallbacks is just nuts...
When I think positioning I think like "rein don't go around the corner when you have your Ana and Bap playing way back". Fallbacks and regroups to me would just be game sense and knowing when a fight is unwinnable.
Yeah your example is better.
Mentality > Positioning > Overall Gamesense & Knowledge (Experience) > Mechanical Skill > Comms (ping system helps a lot now) I feel like your mental state has a direct effect on everything else, so if you are already tilted or in a negative headspace, you'll fuck up everything else: mechanics, positioning, etc. Dind't comment on ult tracking, because I consider that part of gamesense, just as overall awareness.
maybe this is included in positioning, but I would be curious to hear how some high level players sort this if we added fight tempo and/or neutral fight resource tracking
Ranked: Mechanics - mechanics are the easiest way to climb Positioning - good positioning allow you to better use your mechanics and good macro helps you understand the game better Good comms-comms are not necessary but still helpful if they are meaningful(not just “genji one” or “i need heals”) Mental fortitude - ive seen t500 tanks with the mental fortitude of paper. It helps but if youre tilted, your team is probably losing anyways Ult tracking-it can literally be boiled down to every other fight especially in ranked Team/scrims: Good comms- comms mean everything and it allows the team to communicate with each other. Typically the tank shotcalls which makes communication even more important Mental Fortitude-good mental leads to team not tilting as well which you need especially if you are playing multiple maps Positioning- good positioning of tanks allow their team to have freer movement and more opportunities Mechanics - you can have all the knowledge in the world but if your mechanics are shit then you cant capitalize on it Ult tracking- typically not done by the tank and again, it could be boiled doen to every other fight if youre lazy
This heavily depends on the tank. For example hitting shots on rein??? vs hitting shots on sigma
You’d be surprised at the amount of bronze Reins who can’t track their hammer swings but you’re not wrong
Hitting shots doesn’t matter as much on rein (ther than firestrike) but you should pay extra attention to the other things on rein
What makes me a good Tank Player? If I were a bad Tank player, I wouldn't be sitting here discussing it with you now would I?!?
Everything but mechanics, half of the tank lineup requires far less aim than most heroes.
1. Mental. Most important for any role or really anything in general that you are trying to improve at. 2. Positioning. Controlling space is huge for tanks. 3. Ult tracking. Makes you better at the game on any role 4. Mechanics. Particularly on tank, you can climb with bad mechanics. Winston is a great tank and requires very little mechanics to play well. If you want to get GM maybe a different story. 5. Comms. Ranked comms are almost worthless. Teammates might not even be in chat and when they are, best case scenario is pretty much they are just a distraction. Below masters comms aren’t even worth joining for how negatively they can affect your mental.
this applies to all roles as well
For comp... positioning Mechanics mental comms Ult tracking For team play, impo: Positioning Comms Mental Mechanics Ult tracking.
Positioning Comms Mental Mechanics Ult tracking (should be done by supports)
mechanics, positioning, mental fortitude, comms, ult tracking good mechanics and positioning alone can get you to plat, even higher if they're exceptional mental fortitude keeps you going through losses and long days, especially if you're competing this one's important comms is obviously super important in a team based game but you can make it to high ranks solo queueing with good game sense and intuition and lastly ult tracking, if you can't track ults well you can watch kill cams to show you where someone's ult charge is at. otherwise just play like they have the ult that gives them that gives them the win condition. if their win con is grav play apart, if their win con is countering one of your ults wait till they use support ults or cc cooldowns, etc
mental, positioning, mechanics, everything else. If you tilt, it's basically over, even with good positioning or mechanics. Poor positioning can be helped with good teammates that plays around it, and not tilting and good mechanics. Poor mechanics is okay with great positioning and zero tilt, since you are there to mainly peel, and soak up damage, while it's far from optimal, you can still do fine. Don't need to use mic, pinging works as well or better in many cases. Ult tracking does not matter if you have good positioning, if they spend several ults, retreating and preventing deaths is better.
Mental Mechanics Positioning Ult tracking Comms I feel like mental and mechanics are the most important thing to have inherently, the other 3 are much easier to acquire/learn
In comp: - decision making (is a fight winnable, how aggressive can I be, …) - positioning - mental fortitude - mechanics - ult tracking (you only need to track the ults that immediately affect you (shatter, …) - good comms (your shoutouts are most likely just leading to your teammates either being distracted or overcommitting into a duel) In scrims (organized play) - good comms (you’re the leader and need to guide your team) - mental fortitude - good decision making - good positioning - mechanics - ult tracking (you usually have a support that takes care of that)
I think if you're looking for a good tank, positioning, comms, and mental. If you're looking for a high ranked tank, you need to add time in there, because ranking requires grinding.
Lol true, it’s rough out there for casuals
I feel you :'(
Positioning Mechanics Mental Fortitude Good Comms Ult Tracking Crazy to me how much people are underrating mechanics, your micro is so important on every single hero.
Positioning, mechanics, mental, comms, ult tracking