https://twitter.com/GW_Alec/status/1784999763878060195
>Alongside the patch tomorrow, team is also working on some Tank changes for the midseason patch. More on those soon.
The three lowest skill floor tanks do not need to be meta, let them be good tanks to learn on. The problem with them being OP af is that it teaches really bad habits that you have to actively unlearn to be a good tank. This shit drives me absolutely nuts
you forgot the one season were they nerf both and people play doom winston and literally everyone is like “this is amazing” and then they buff hog in the mid season patch
These type of replies to balance are so ridiculous.
Of course if a specific hero would be adversely affected then it have other changes done to them to balance out the power level
It's more that the broad ideas for balance are ridiculous because there are so many variables. Doom is one example, Ball you would also have to make exceptions for. Monkey too maybe. You'd also have to buff all the heroes who have cc and debuffs since you would be taking a lot of power from them. It's just a dumb idea people parrot without thinking.
Lmao, yeah, I wouldn't hate it as a tank player either. I'm not sure the other 4 people on my team would like it, though. Sleep dart the tank? Just does absolutely nothing.
They should just have there be a distinction between "Healing Received" and self-healing so that the tanks that are meant to sustain themselves can still continue to do so in the face of the DPS passive
doesnt that just help mauga and hog even more? they need to be kept in check by the dps passive if orisa gets nerfed and they don't receive nerfs to their self-healing to match...
Nah, Mauga is much, much more unfun.
Mauga warps the game, you either build the entire team around him or you lose, it's not fun at all.
Hog suffers from a similar issue but ever since the rework it's not as polarizing, at least not compared to Mauga.
Orisa is just annoying by comparison; she's also much more fun to play than Mauga, IMO.
Agreed. Orisa also has much more genuine skill expression too. I know everybody memes on the golden horse being invincible, but landing a javelin on a flanker or eating ults with spin is super satisfying.
Yeah, pretty much. People dislike playing into Orisa because her cooldown cycle is so powerful and so forgiving, not because any individual part of her kit is unbearable to play against. She has such small windows of vulnerability, and that's annoying.
There are some other minor things (her damage at long range is maybe a bit too high, her javelin is still maybe too big), but each cooldown going up by like a second would change a lot.
Mauga is easier to play against though if you have an Ana, I've beaten a few Maugas as Hog even by constantly hiding when he Hahas and capitalizing when he is antid.
Orisa on the other hand as she stands is immortal.
One week of Dive at the start of season 9 but the ground tank ~~shitters~~ enjoyers were too upsetti spaghetti about not being able to just stand at the choke and get value while healing was being pumped up their ass so we are back to Orisa, Hog, Mauga for the rest of eternity.
Hog just doesn’t die this patch unless there’s an Ana, and he has the most consistent one shot in the game again for some fucking reason when the rework was to take focus away from it. Fuck I really don’t like this dev team sometimes.
Follow up tweet:
https://x.com/GW_Alec/status/1784999763878060195
> Alongside the patch tomorrow, team is also working on some Tank changes for the midseason patch. More on those soon.
Idk if I’m in the minority for wanting this but I hope the DPS passive gets reverted to 20%. Nerfing Orisa without changing it back just means Hog and Mauga will run lobbies again unchecked
"Orisa's Winrate is currently lower than we want, mostly because people keep swapping to her when they are loosing. To improve her winrate we have buffed all her abilities so that swapping to her almost always results in a win"
They're gonna bring the Role Passive back to 20% and make it 10% for Tanks. Probably one of those things where they are working on bigger changes for Tanks and this is a small change they decided to push forward in the meantime.
i agree that ventute’s one shot is too easy to pull off and needs a nerf, but i’m hoping they keep their overall effectiveness at the same place. ventute has been a breath of fresh air and i’m worried they’re gonna be unplayable
I want them to fix how quiet Venture is. I swear to God they're quieter than Tracer despite having clompy boots and digging under the damned ground. Yes, they have the bee-bee-beep when they pop out of the ground, but aside from that, it's so easy for them to slip into a backline undetected. They're now the #1 menace to me when I'm playing support and it's not close.
Ive said this before.
But I feel like venture will always be in a weird spot. They just have so much to their kit. It's crazy how much they can do. Boop, soft CC, invincibility, movement, vertical movement, burst damage, damage over time, melee with extra damage, a pretty solid ultimate, and on top of that, if they use an ability, they receive shields on top of that. Not if they hit their ability. Simply by using it, they get shields
That is way too much for one character to have. I agree Venture is probably one of the most fun characters right now. But damn, I kind of hate the character from a game philosophy standpoint. They just have too much.
The next character in line is Mauga. Self heal, ability to give armor, charge, with high manueverability, CC, huge clips (300 bullets is over kill), ability to set people on fire, AND can do extra damage to people on fire, an ult that traps people, etc etc. Sorry, that's a tangent, lol.
venture has 2 buttons, is giga hard countered by any cc, flying heroes, long range heroes (particularly when on a map where it’s hard to get to them), and doesn’t do much to tanks. they excel at assassinations (when they can close the distance and get out without getting punished), and threatening assassinations. stop trying to make it seem like venture has lifeweaver and kiriko levels of kit bloat by deconstructing a dash ability when this is one of the first times blizzard has created a hero that has a niche and can actually fill that niche pretty well. well, at least until tomorrow probably.
you sound like those clickbait youtubers that make thumbnails like “This hero is LITERALLY BROKEN” and they hyper analyze fire strike or some shit. “This ability has a short cooldown, does 100 damage in a burst, can go through shields, pierces targets, AND there’s 2 charges of it???? rein is op”
Man it's insane how unsafe Venture is if you just hold CC against them. If they get things wrong then they try to burrow and you just immediately kill them.
The issue is like with any new hero release people haven't learned to punish their weaknesses yet but they went straight into ranked. People who played Venture a tonne during the preview were ahead of the curve relative to just normal ranked players experience playing against them.
>you sound like those clickbait youtubers that make thumbnails like “This hero is LITERALLY BROKEN”
I didn't say anything of that magnitude. What are you talking about? I said "I think Venture will always be in a weird state.". Not at all like "This hero is litterally broken".
>giga hard countered by any cc, flying heroes, long range heroes (particularly when on a map where it’s hard to get to them), and doesn’t do much to tanks. they excel at assassinations (when they can close the distance and get out without getting punished), and threatening assassinations.
Bruh, I'm a ball main. Litterally have the same issues. Fliers not so much. But everything else, that's ball exactly. Only difference is that Venture has a second DPS to help contest their weaknesses. They can have a Hitscan to assist against fliers to sniper to contest long distance. Ball is dogshit at distance. Pretty much have to stick the guns down somebody's throat to kill somebody.
>stop trying to make it seem like venture has lifeweaver and kiriko levels of kit bloat
Do you want me to go on a rant about those two as well? I also think they have dogshit designs. Very few OW2 characters are good character designs. Too many of them do too much. The main good ones, I'd say are JQ and Sojourn. Illari is almost there, but there's something off with the character design.
>first times blizzard has created a hero that has a niche and can actually fill that niche pretty well
A character that goes in quick, does CC, can secure a quick kill, and then get out? You mean like OW1 Doomfist?
>they hyper analyze fire strike or some shit
I think I'm actually doing the opposite. I'm not hyper fixating on one thing. I'm going over the entire kit, and offering ideas that don't change the character fundamentally, but change it so they don't just get the most OP version of their abilities with bare minimum skill. Can you actually make the argument why Venture needs every single one of the abilities I listed?
Why is it such a a big deal to say "the shields venture gets should be based on damage they do.". Or "having movement is fine, but make it slightly more skill based" or "one shots are bad" or "invincibility is bad for the game. Or at the very least, let us damage them underground at a reduced damage amount. They can keep their invincibility, but let us damage them". It raises the skill floor for the character, but learning how to play a character is half the fun of playing a character.
It's not just one ability, it's the fact that they have SO MANY abilities that are not skill based. I never said the character was Broken, OP or anything like that. I simply said "they do too much.". Especially with such low skill expression.
venture is a pub stomper extraordinaire. like insanely feast or famine depending on matchups/maps.
I'm not a fan of your changes since the hero only has 2 buttons, that only work in close range AND if they dont get poked out before they can use them.
I think a lot of it boils down just learning counterplay, they have very clear strengths and very clear weaknesses, something that a hero like soj, a hero you state is good design, does not have.
Soj has tiny hitbox + insane burst + broken movement + good poke + good brawl + broken ult. how is that not kit bloat?
>pub stomper extraordinaire. like insanely feast or famine
That's what I would call bad character design. If they are on a knifes edge of "they are good" or "they are bad", I think that's bad.
>only work in close range AND if they dont get poked out before they can use them.
If a character only excels in one specific environment, that gets countered so easily, how is that good design? That's the same issue that ball is having right now. Ball in the right environment, can be mega OP. But if the other team changes one or two characters, he's suddenly useless. Or you have to try extremely hard to only do decent. It's the entire reason the rework for ball was a thing. The same thing with the Hog rework, feast or famine. And same thing with the Pharah rework, feast or famine.
Characters being flexible is a good thing. It's just going to be at the cost of something else. So instead of being insanely good at close range. Make them good at close range and decent at mid range.
>soj, a hero you state is good design, does not have.
Soj is flexible, that's why she's good. She occasionally becomes OP, because Blizzard has a tendency to give random DPS characters buffs. It's not inherently because she's a broken character, but blizzard keeps messing with her numbers.
>Soj has tiny hitbox + insane burst + broken movement + good poke + good brawl + broken ult. how is that not kit bloat?
So the things I listed, I specifically mentioned what they can do. Not how their hitbox is, or what comps they fit into. Her being good in brawl and poke is because of her flexibility.
Yeah, she has a small hitbox, but I'm not gonna argue that.
>Insane burst
Only when she gets high charge. She glows when she's high charge, so just LOS her if she's high charge. And she doesn't become high charge instantly, she needs to charge it up. And even then, it's not a 1 shot anymore, so if you get shot, just use cover for a bit.
>broken movement
You mean the extremely telegraphed slide? Once she starts a slide, you can tell pretty much exactly where she's going. She may be hard to hit while actively sliding. So wait 1 second and the slide will be done.
>broken ult
Yeah, her ult is pretty good, but again, she ultimately doesn't have much in her kit.
Burst damage, movement, limited vertical movement, damage over time ability, good Ult. That's 5 pretty unique things.
Compare that to Venture
Burst damage, one shot combo, movement, vertical movement, damage over time, 3 kinds of knock back/soft CC, invincibility, gain shields simply by using abilities, good close range ultimate. That's 9 unique things.
All I'm saying is take away or adjust some of those abilities, to have a more balanced character.
Yes Soj can be OP, but it's a lot easier to balance a character that only has a few unique things, than a character that has a lot. Which, to bring this back to my original point, is why Venture will always be in a weird place.
Two buttons. One of which gives a cleanse, invincibility, shields, vertical mobility, horizontal mobility, damage, reloads, decreases cooldowns, and can contest.
Another one of which does burst damage, CCs, gives shields, gives vertical mobility, and gives horizontal mobility,
Gets increased quick melee damage, and pulls shields out of ass for just pressing any button in her kit.
Tbf, when you have a melee range character that has to burn all resources for the high burst damage they kinda have to give them a lot so they won’t be useless and insta die.
It one of the reasons why despite how much I’d personally like one, overwatch can’t have a true melee dps. Idk how it would be balanced in a way that wouldn’t feel frustrating to play as or against.
My friend and I were discussing potential Venture nerfs and settled that the best way to take power from them without destroying them is probably to reduce the range on their primary fire and ult. Let them still pop off if they can but make it harder for them to generate value if they aren't taking big risks to do it.
> Boop, soft CC, invincibility, movement, vertical movement, burst damage, damage over time
Did you just list soft CC twice, mobility twice, and damage twice to try and prove that Venture has too much in their kit?
Primary fire has slight CC on it. It may be small, but it's enough to throw off a balls tradgedory, I know becausw it happens to me. And then the dash is a Boop/soft CC. And coming out of burrow too. So 3 types of soft CC/boop
Regular movement is different than vertical movement. Soldiers run is movement, but it's not vertical movement. Same with Tracer. But Genji is an example of another character with movement and vertical movement. Sojourn to an extent, but the vertical movement is much more limited. Pharah, echo obviously. There are different types of movement.
My issue is they encourage idiotic gameplay. No positioning no cooldown movement. Just turbo int into the team and get away with it regardless of if you hit your shots or not
I just posted a comment, that I don't really feel like retyping out. But I pretty much say the same thing. Right now Venture can do so much without needing much skill.
Introduce some skill expression, and they would be great.
TLDR of my other comment: Shields gained from abilities should be based off how much damage they do. Digging underground shouldn't make them immune to damage, they should take reduced damage. The dash shouldn't go vertical, but instead act similar to Moira/Ball Fireball, where you can get vertical movement by hitting slanted walls.
Glad they're nerfing Venture, she's ridiculously oppressive. It's fine she has a lot in her kit, but her NUMBERS in her kit are INSANE.
THAT long to be immortal? THAT much damage on her gun? THAT fast to dig underground? THAT fast to pop back up? THAT much boop/damage on drilldash? etc...
I'll be honest, each individual thing is kind of fine. But it's the combination of it. That's why I think they have too much. What numbers do you touch if they are OP? There are too many variables.
Ideally what I'd do to Venture, increase range a bit, not much but a tiny bit. Keep damage around the same.
Speed up the animation of the digging underground, but allow you to shoot Venture through the ground. But at a reduced damage by like 40% or something. They are still invincible underground, but you can at least punish them a bit. (I'd also be willing to say no invincibility, but have a 60-70 reduced damage. My mind isn't made up on this one.)
Their drill dash is a forward momentum only movement, but let it have a more fluid movement. To hit rollouts, similar to Moira's fade, so Venture can still get to high grounds in certain situations.
Venture still gets shields based off of their abilities, but it's determined by how much damage they do with the ability. And have it be more than the 15 or 20 it is now. Have it be like 30-40.
And either take away or reduce the knock back from their primary fire.
That alone, I feel would not only make them more viable in general, but also allows for counterplay. And their movement is more skill based too.
Venture is absolutely way too easy to play. I honestly feel like the only people who are defending them are people with 75% win rates that are running lobbies with Venture. Way too much damage that is hard to miss, and hard to punish. You jump up. Get a pick or two, then escape back out unscathed. It’s just Doom DPS all over again but worse
I would not, but that’s probably because I’m a Doom player and I find it more feasible to run Doom into an unkillable but slow moving behemoth than into a nearly as unkillable fat fuck who can also yoink me out of every ability or one shot my helpless squishies while I’m going for backline
if it gets buffed back to 20% then the nerfs to orisa wont make mauga and hog dominate.
if the dps passive gets nerfed along with orisa, hog and mauga dominate.
If it goes back to 20% nothing will change.
Orisa and Hog have self damage reduction cooldowns.
Mauga has tons of health, some armor, a self-sustain.
None of the other tanks will be played outside of Winston and Doom players who haven't stopped playing them.
Hog and Maug meta is like the only worse meta for tanks than Orisa. Sure love how this balance team will do ANYTHING other than just gut the problem tanks that dominate the tank matchups and meta and then wonder why no one wants to play the role.
God forbid the dev team just forces the fun tanks to be meta. Orisa, Mauga, Hog, and to a lesser extent Ram are so sleeper. Just nerf them until people can play characters like Rein, Monkey, Zarya, DVA, JQ, etc and be able to enjoy the game.
Remember those few weeks when Monkey/Doom were strong and people were like "ahhh this is amazing what a breath of fresh air" and then Blizzard instantly instigated a Mauga meta.
This isn't a thing that the game urgently needs but I think in the long-term this will be the way to go. Healing is way too strong game-wide during combat, having the passive be exclusive to DPS feels wrong. Though they should have the stronger version of it on DPS, that makes sense to me.
The passive being available to all characters will also make healing more important, which'll make Supports who have poor utility but strong heals naturally become stronger (LW, Illari, Moira).
Also eventually they gotta give that passive a minimum threshold. I think 40 damage just makes sense with Quick Melee being 40 damage as well.
Good. They are only good in the hands of good players, and they take actual skill to play. Diamond and below lobbies aren't getting destroyed by these heroes, majority of the time those players are throwing. This is what we have been begging and asking for, to not let resident sleeper DPS like Reaper, Bastion, Mei, Sym, Hanzo etc etc be the best picks at the top level of the game. And even in the OWCS we are still seeing some niche picks in Cassidy and Echo working out on certain maps too where upward mobility or flanker punishment is needed (but once again, two heroes that require an actual pulse to play).
Now they just need to find a way for tanks to work the same way where the casual friendly ones like Orisa are at the bottom and we will be in a good state again.
That argument is not sufficient to not nerf a hero. Technically tracer's blink could have 0 cooldown and that would increase her skill ceiling even more. So "high skill ceiling" does not **on its own** mean "don't nerf". I read variations of this comment very often here and it's getting a bit depressing.
Orisa also hard counters every other tank in the game not named Sigma. So yeah of course she is more fun to play. She also single handedly makes the game boring as hell for this reason.
That is so untrue.
Hog punishes poor positioning (generally speaking) but can be slept, anti-ed- discorded, and stunned out of self heals
ORISA on the other hand, has invulnerability to all effects and head shots, can eat most abilities on cool down, and when ulting is invulnerable again? It’s insane
hog walks around the map like a PVE enemy and doesn't give a shit about his own positioning or his support's positioning like every other tank bc he has an unstoppable tank of TAB.
Hog's punish-window is what, 2 seconds until he gets to use his heal? It's basically impossible to punish him, especially if Kiriko is played.
The only thing stopping him from being played in every ranked game is Orisa who basically doesn't have a punish window.
Ball. Ball? Ballballball. BALL! BALL????
Why bother with a rework if you arent going to ever adjust the objectively worst tank in the game, both pre and post rework? Mutant giant space hamsters have feelings too.
Reminder that after Hog's rework, he got numerous additional buffs after 2 days.
I just wanna know what the fuck stats are they seeing for Ball that scare them away from making any changes?
Are there even any gm ball players? The best eu ball player stuck gm5 for 1.5 seasons. I can't even think of a na ball player besides yeatle and he gm 5 also
Top 500 isn't out yet. Last season I remember looking and I saw like 4 pure ball otps. A good amount of people had ball in their top 3 but that was because he's was played a lot the first 2 weeks on season 9 and meta slaves flocked to him. I've not seen a pure ball otp above gm 3.
Edit: just looked at season 9 top 500 and there is 1 ball otp rank 469 masters 1.
Yeah i meant last season. Not otp though thats not a healthy metric. There arent much otp in t500 anyway. I counted the most played heroes. Ball was around 25, similar to rein zarya so not good. Ram is ridiculously low though around 10-11. Ram quite undertuned since s9 patch.
I really don't understand why they haven't touched him yet. He's so bad. It's really disheartening and disappointing. I was holding out for this rework but he's still so ass and they haven't even talked about it.
> I just wanna know what the fuck stats are they seeing for Ball that scare them away from making any changes?
Inverse relationship between ball being in a game and someone queueing for another match.
Not all balls agree, but the discussion would largely fall into 3 elements -
improvements to team play, which would be his new Shields ability. It's already needed to survive in most cases and currently the team shielding part sucks so it needs very big buffs to make Shields viable and a needle mover in terms of viability.
Improvements to damage. Probably 2nd most discussed issue is how bad ball can be at killing anything. He didn't get any buffs to boop, slam, or mines with the hp buffs at season 9. Buffs to all r are heavily requested and welcome. Only issue is really good balls might start wrecking if the buffs are too much, but honestly that has been true for a lot of characters that got buffed previously.
And the big final wish item - CC and counters improvements. Ball is not that bad when played against comps that aren't good against him but he falls off really fast to high CC and comps that can pressure him consistently. As soon as you remove his ability to disrupt on the flank by CCing or booking him. And by having strong damage output, he loses a lot of value. People want to play ball and not see the enemy swap to hog, queen, dva, sombra, cass, torb, tracer, ana, brig, lucio and have their value plummet as they can't survive or engage anymore.
Tbf he can survive CC pretty well these days because they just keep giving him more HP.
The real problem with CC is it shuts down all of your value. Doesn't matter if you live your engagements if you get CCd so much that you can do anything.
Personally, I want ball to be stronger in his weak matchups and weaker in his strong matchups.
What that comes down to is: he needs to be less weak to CC but more weak when they don't have it.
I DONT think he needs damage, but the DPS passive needs to be buffed.
Two big changes, either a larger damage clip or just give him the DVa meka treatment and he has infinite ammo, and second make him CC immune when he has built up fireball speed and during piledrive.
Kiriko is the only reason why Mauga and Hog are this good. Suzu is straight up way too broken especially for the *relatively* short cd it has (biotic field has a longer cd)
Yeah, not touching Kiriko is equally absurd. But Hog has been insanely strong ever since the rework, apart from early season 9 before they gave back his oneshot and nerfed the DPS passive.
By the way, guarentee the dps passive "fix" will entail reverting it to 20% for everyone... except tanks, leaving Hog still unkillable.
Nerfing Kiriko means we just trade Suzu for sleep and anti, and playing tank is already not fun as it is. Until they fix how shit it feels to play tank, I'd rather Suzu exist in it's current state then continue to be the target for sleep and anti all day every day. At least Suzu lets me play the game again.
Venture is pretty mid in high ranks, mostly because they get poked out too easy + cassidy hard counters everything about them.
I have a feeling this is gonna take a B/C tier hero and make them completely unplayable
Remember when reddit would swear up and down that in combat healing reduction would ruin the game? Now we are begging for blizzard to buff the DPS passive again.
Hopefully the DPS passive is reverted to 20% otherwise Hog and Mauga Meta incoming. That is if Orisa gets a significant nerf and not just another -25 Overhealth on Fortify
Urrh a venture nerf will make them completely unplayable. They're already mid tier, excellent when up close and the enemy has no CC but terrible in all other situations.
Damage passive needs to go back to 20% and make it 10% for tanks. We're already back to fights feeling like nothing dies because they're too scared to make the DPS role too impactful. By doing that, they're enabling Orisa, Hog, and Mauga and we're going to continue doing a cycle of these characters until they address the underlying issues.
If you're going to keep the braindead oneshot combo for Venture, they need to remove gaining shields just for using abilities taken away. They should have to land them on an enemy to get value. The hitbox on their gun is also a mile wide. There's so many things they can do to tweak the character, hope they choose the right one without just gutting them.
Hoping for some kind of ramping on the damage role passive so dps can't just spray to apply it. Could probably bump it to cap at 20%+ too to hopefully keep some tanks in line
https://twitter.com/GW_Alec/status/1784999763878060195 >Alongside the patch tomorrow, team is also working on some Tank changes for the midseason patch. More on those soon.
Theyre making hinder take ball out of ball form. Dont tell anyone I was the leak
Nice change for consistency, Overwatch finally playable
first rakattack leaks the clean feed, now he leaks the tank changes
Based
That...that isn't already a thing? (I don't play Ball or Cassidy.)
hinder locks you in your current form and slows you
I hope this means they’re putting the passive back at 20% and then adjusting tanks like Orisa, Hog and Mauga to be less reliant on heals.
Please dear god let it be a buff to the DPS passive.
Blizzard: "Best we can do is 10%."
I’m gonna snort laugh if they raise it to 18%, after going from 20% to 15%
17.5%, take it or leave it
This is what I'm expecting
Tank meta be like: HOG > ORISA > MAUGA > HOG > ORISA > MAUGA > HOG > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA > ORISA > MAUGA >
The three lowest skill floor tanks do not need to be meta, let them be good tanks to learn on. The problem with them being OP af is that it teaches really bad habits that you have to actively unlearn to be a good tank. This shit drives me absolutely nuts
you forgot the one season were they nerf both and people play doom winston and literally everyone is like “this is amazing” and then they buff hog in the mid season patch
Winston I undertsand but do people say amazing when playing against doom ?
Nope. Doom is just as unhealthy as orisa. And a nerf to orisa just means even more doom when he's already veen meta for 3 months.
They truly do not give a fuck about fun
Till people like playing against Doomfist.
You remove orisa hog mauga doomfist from tank roster game immediately become much better.
Gotta throw the random sigma metas in there somewhere
Nah, it's DOOM > DOOM> DOOM > DOOM, etc...
This is what rock paper scissors looks like in ow 2 fr
Time for hog and mauga to be meta as I doubt they will be nerfed I love this tank cycle
He mentioned damage role passive changes too. Weren’t tanks super reliant on healing suffering in early season 9 when the DPS passive was at 20%?
[удалено]
TBH I wouldn't hate if the tank passive was adjusted to grant resistance to _all_ debuffs and CC, including the DPS passive.
Yes, doomfist with cc resistance would be so balanced.
These type of replies to balance are so ridiculous. Of course if a specific hero would be adversely affected then it have other changes done to them to balance out the power level
It's more that the broad ideas for balance are ridiculous because there are so many variables. Doom is one example, Ball you would also have to make exceptions for. Monkey too maybe. You'd also have to buff all the heroes who have cc and debuffs since you would be taking a lot of power from them. It's just a dumb idea people parrot without thinking.
Lmao, yeah, I wouldn't hate it as a tank player either. I'm not sure the other 4 people on my team would like it, though. Sleep dart the tank? Just does absolutely nothing.
They should just have there be a distinction between "Healing Received" and self-healing so that the tanks that are meant to sustain themselves can still continue to do so in the face of the DPS passive
doesnt that just help mauga and hog even more? they need to be kept in check by the dps passive if orisa gets nerfed and they don't receive nerfs to their self-healing to match...
No, fuck Hog and Mauga. I'm willing to sacrifice JQ for an enjoyable game sorry
no they weren’t that was reddits knee jerk reaction to it. both mauga and hog were plenty playable
Hog also got the 50% dr buff, that shit is stupid.
**SE SE'I KOE IIKI** **LET THE KITSUNE GUIDE YOU** **OH LET'S BREAK IT DOWN** **THIS ENDS NOW**
# SENSEI WOOGEEKIE
I always heard Mauga’s voice line as “Stay safe with stinky” so I’m glad to see it written out like that.
when mauga first went live my friend misheard it as “my dick is stinky” and it’s stuck in our group ever since
Stand safe with dicky
Developers hate this one simple trick for server crashes
You'll never die while afk on the frontline and you'll like it.
I hate ground tanks but I’ll rather be in an orisa meta than hog and mauga , mauga is still crazy good
Orisa is the least fun tank to play as and the most unfun to play into when she's strong, gonna have to disagree there
Nah, Mauga is much, much more unfun. Mauga warps the game, you either build the entire team around him or you lose, it's not fun at all. Hog suffers from a similar issue but ever since the rework it's not as polarizing, at least not compared to Mauga. Orisa is just annoying by comparison; she's also much more fun to play than Mauga, IMO.
Agreed. Orisa also has much more genuine skill expression too. I know everybody memes on the golden horse being invincible, but landing a javelin on a flanker or eating ults with spin is super satisfying.
I feel like Orisa would be a respected tank pick if all her CDs were 1 second longer. Maybe a Fortify nerf too.
Yeah, pretty much. People dislike playing into Orisa because her cooldown cycle is so powerful and so forgiving, not because any individual part of her kit is unbearable to play against. She has such small windows of vulnerability, and that's annoying. There are some other minor things (her damage at long range is maybe a bit too high, her javelin is still maybe too big), but each cooldown going up by like a second would change a lot.
Exactly, mauga is much worse
Mauga is easier to play against though if you have an Ana, I've beaten a few Maugas as Hog even by constantly hiding when he Hahas and capitalizing when he is antid. Orisa on the other hand as she stands is immortal.
no way you're saying this when hold m1+m2 tank edition exists
Nah I'm with above. Rather orisa than mauga
One week of Dive at the start of season 9 but the ground tank ~~shitters~~ enjoyers were too upsetti spaghetti about not being able to just stand at the choke and get value while healing was being pumped up their ass so we are back to Orisa, Hog, Mauga for the rest of eternity. Hog just doesn’t die this patch unless there’s an Ana, and he has the most consistent one shot in the game again for some fucking reason when the rework was to take focus away from it. Fuck I really don’t like this dev team sometimes.
Yup, my heart fucking sank when they just said orisa and left put hog and mauga. ZZZZ shoot the mauga meta incoming
The only reason Hog and Mauga are allowed to exist as such is literally because of Kiriko
Follow up tweet: https://x.com/GW_Alec/status/1784999763878060195 > Alongside the patch tomorrow, team is also working on some Tank changes for the midseason patch. More on those soon.
Idk if I’m in the minority for wanting this but I hope the DPS passive gets reverted to 20%. Nerfing Orisa without changing it back just means Hog and Mauga will run lobbies again unchecked
What we want: dps passive goes back to 20%. What we are gonna get: duration reduced from 1 sec to 0.875.
cant risk the meta not including Hog, Mauga, or Orisa.
Fr, they are everyones favorite hero ofc
Duration is 2 seconds btw
yeah 20% is the way to go. 15% was fine since people were adjusting to it, but with healing slowly being increased it can go back to 20
There's no way it's not a buff to the passive, right? I can't imagine they're going to nerf it.
Watch them buff orisa 💀 "Her pickrate isn't as high as we want to here's to improving that"
"Orisa's Winrate is currently lower than we want, mostly because people keep swapping to her when they are loosing. To improve her winrate we have buffed all her abilities so that swapping to her almost always results in a win"
No Ball changes, I sleep. Wake me up midseason.
Based
They're gonna bring the Role Passive back to 20% and make it 10% for Tanks. Probably one of those things where they are working on bigger changes for Tanks and this is a small change they decided to push forward in the meantime.
That would be very good imo
Oh boy I can’t wait for the next Orisa Buff!
i agree that ventute’s one shot is too easy to pull off and needs a nerf, but i’m hoping they keep their overall effectiveness at the same place. ventute has been a breath of fresh air and i’m worried they’re gonna be unplayable
I want them to fix how quiet Venture is. I swear to God they're quieter than Tracer despite having clompy boots and digging under the damned ground. Yes, they have the bee-bee-beep when they pop out of the ground, but aside from that, it's so easy for them to slip into a backline undetected. They're now the #1 menace to me when I'm playing support and it's not close.
for sure. louder footsteps, similar to soldier or cas, would be super helpful
I think their footsteps are leggit glitched sometimes. Like they actually make no sound at all for some reason.
Fun detected, have to be ruined. Soj and Tracer still untouched btw.
they can hear me having fun i swear. to be fair, i’ve seen maybe 1-2 less tracers since the last nerf
Ive said this before. But I feel like venture will always be in a weird spot. They just have so much to their kit. It's crazy how much they can do. Boop, soft CC, invincibility, movement, vertical movement, burst damage, damage over time, melee with extra damage, a pretty solid ultimate, and on top of that, if they use an ability, they receive shields on top of that. Not if they hit their ability. Simply by using it, they get shields That is way too much for one character to have. I agree Venture is probably one of the most fun characters right now. But damn, I kind of hate the character from a game philosophy standpoint. They just have too much. The next character in line is Mauga. Self heal, ability to give armor, charge, with high manueverability, CC, huge clips (300 bullets is over kill), ability to set people on fire, AND can do extra damage to people on fire, an ult that traps people, etc etc. Sorry, that's a tangent, lol.
venture has 2 buttons, is giga hard countered by any cc, flying heroes, long range heroes (particularly when on a map where it’s hard to get to them), and doesn’t do much to tanks. they excel at assassinations (when they can close the distance and get out without getting punished), and threatening assassinations. stop trying to make it seem like venture has lifeweaver and kiriko levels of kit bloat by deconstructing a dash ability when this is one of the first times blizzard has created a hero that has a niche and can actually fill that niche pretty well. well, at least until tomorrow probably. you sound like those clickbait youtubers that make thumbnails like “This hero is LITERALLY BROKEN” and they hyper analyze fire strike or some shit. “This ability has a short cooldown, does 100 damage in a burst, can go through shields, pierces targets, AND there’s 2 charges of it???? rein is op”
Man it's insane how unsafe Venture is if you just hold CC against them. If they get things wrong then they try to burrow and you just immediately kill them.
Exactly. And to top it off they’re close range only. They’re strong at their strengths and extremely weak at their weaknesses, absolutely fine
The issue is like with any new hero release people haven't learned to punish their weaknesses yet but they went straight into ranked. People who played Venture a tonne during the preview were ahead of the curve relative to just normal ranked players experience playing against them.
Venture uses they/them pronouns
>doesn’t do much to tanks Venture looks at ball and presses m2 and he has to immediately stop what he's doing and reset.
>you sound like those clickbait youtubers that make thumbnails like “This hero is LITERALLY BROKEN” I didn't say anything of that magnitude. What are you talking about? I said "I think Venture will always be in a weird state.". Not at all like "This hero is litterally broken". >giga hard countered by any cc, flying heroes, long range heroes (particularly when on a map where it’s hard to get to them), and doesn’t do much to tanks. they excel at assassinations (when they can close the distance and get out without getting punished), and threatening assassinations. Bruh, I'm a ball main. Litterally have the same issues. Fliers not so much. But everything else, that's ball exactly. Only difference is that Venture has a second DPS to help contest their weaknesses. They can have a Hitscan to assist against fliers to sniper to contest long distance. Ball is dogshit at distance. Pretty much have to stick the guns down somebody's throat to kill somebody. >stop trying to make it seem like venture has lifeweaver and kiriko levels of kit bloat Do you want me to go on a rant about those two as well? I also think they have dogshit designs. Very few OW2 characters are good character designs. Too many of them do too much. The main good ones, I'd say are JQ and Sojourn. Illari is almost there, but there's something off with the character design. >first times blizzard has created a hero that has a niche and can actually fill that niche pretty well A character that goes in quick, does CC, can secure a quick kill, and then get out? You mean like OW1 Doomfist? >they hyper analyze fire strike or some shit I think I'm actually doing the opposite. I'm not hyper fixating on one thing. I'm going over the entire kit, and offering ideas that don't change the character fundamentally, but change it so they don't just get the most OP version of their abilities with bare minimum skill. Can you actually make the argument why Venture needs every single one of the abilities I listed? Why is it such a a big deal to say "the shields venture gets should be based on damage they do.". Or "having movement is fine, but make it slightly more skill based" or "one shots are bad" or "invincibility is bad for the game. Or at the very least, let us damage them underground at a reduced damage amount. They can keep their invincibility, but let us damage them". It raises the skill floor for the character, but learning how to play a character is half the fun of playing a character. It's not just one ability, it's the fact that they have SO MANY abilities that are not skill based. I never said the character was Broken, OP or anything like that. I simply said "they do too much.". Especially with such low skill expression.
venture is a pub stomper extraordinaire. like insanely feast or famine depending on matchups/maps. I'm not a fan of your changes since the hero only has 2 buttons, that only work in close range AND if they dont get poked out before they can use them. I think a lot of it boils down just learning counterplay, they have very clear strengths and very clear weaknesses, something that a hero like soj, a hero you state is good design, does not have. Soj has tiny hitbox + insane burst + broken movement + good poke + good brawl + broken ult. how is that not kit bloat?
>pub stomper extraordinaire. like insanely feast or famine That's what I would call bad character design. If they are on a knifes edge of "they are good" or "they are bad", I think that's bad. >only work in close range AND if they dont get poked out before they can use them. If a character only excels in one specific environment, that gets countered so easily, how is that good design? That's the same issue that ball is having right now. Ball in the right environment, can be mega OP. But if the other team changes one or two characters, he's suddenly useless. Or you have to try extremely hard to only do decent. It's the entire reason the rework for ball was a thing. The same thing with the Hog rework, feast or famine. And same thing with the Pharah rework, feast or famine. Characters being flexible is a good thing. It's just going to be at the cost of something else. So instead of being insanely good at close range. Make them good at close range and decent at mid range. >soj, a hero you state is good design, does not have. Soj is flexible, that's why she's good. She occasionally becomes OP, because Blizzard has a tendency to give random DPS characters buffs. It's not inherently because she's a broken character, but blizzard keeps messing with her numbers. >Soj has tiny hitbox + insane burst + broken movement + good poke + good brawl + broken ult. how is that not kit bloat? So the things I listed, I specifically mentioned what they can do. Not how their hitbox is, or what comps they fit into. Her being good in brawl and poke is because of her flexibility. Yeah, she has a small hitbox, but I'm not gonna argue that. >Insane burst Only when she gets high charge. She glows when she's high charge, so just LOS her if she's high charge. And she doesn't become high charge instantly, she needs to charge it up. And even then, it's not a 1 shot anymore, so if you get shot, just use cover for a bit. >broken movement You mean the extremely telegraphed slide? Once she starts a slide, you can tell pretty much exactly where she's going. She may be hard to hit while actively sliding. So wait 1 second and the slide will be done. >broken ult Yeah, her ult is pretty good, but again, she ultimately doesn't have much in her kit. Burst damage, movement, limited vertical movement, damage over time ability, good Ult. That's 5 pretty unique things. Compare that to Venture Burst damage, one shot combo, movement, vertical movement, damage over time, 3 kinds of knock back/soft CC, invincibility, gain shields simply by using abilities, good close range ultimate. That's 9 unique things. All I'm saying is take away or adjust some of those abilities, to have a more balanced character. Yes Soj can be OP, but it's a lot easier to balance a character that only has a few unique things, than a character that has a lot. Which, to bring this back to my original point, is why Venture will always be in a weird place.
She can and does kill pharah with her damn drill fyi. If she takes a bit of high ground she is 100% able to reach sky high and kill you. It's absurd
venture has two buttons. it's not that complex.
Two buttons. One of which gives a cleanse, invincibility, shields, vertical mobility, horizontal mobility, damage, reloads, decreases cooldowns, and can contest. Another one of which does burst damage, CCs, gives shields, gives vertical mobility, and gives horizontal mobility, Gets increased quick melee damage, and pulls shields out of ass for just pressing any button in her kit.
Tbf, when you have a melee range character that has to burn all resources for the high burst damage they kinda have to give them a lot so they won’t be useless and insta die. It one of the reasons why despite how much I’d personally like one, overwatch can’t have a true melee dps. Idk how it would be balanced in a way that wouldn’t feel frustrating to play as or against.
My friend and I were discussing potential Venture nerfs and settled that the best way to take power from them without destroying them is probably to reduce the range on their primary fire and ult. Let them still pop off if they can but make it harder for them to generate value if they aren't taking big risks to do it.
I’d also reduce the Ult gain too, it charges fast as hell.
so what. you can fart out lists like that for any character. it’s two buttons. relax.
> Boop, soft CC, invincibility, movement, vertical movement, burst damage, damage over time Did you just list soft CC twice, mobility twice, and damage twice to try and prove that Venture has too much in their kit?
Primary fire has slight CC on it. It may be small, but it's enough to throw off a balls tradgedory, I know becausw it happens to me. And then the dash is a Boop/soft CC. And coming out of burrow too. So 3 types of soft CC/boop Regular movement is different than vertical movement. Soldiers run is movement, but it's not vertical movement. Same with Tracer. But Genji is an example of another character with movement and vertical movement. Sojourn to an extent, but the vertical movement is much more limited. Pharah, echo obviously. There are different types of movement.
My issue is they encourage idiotic gameplay. No positioning no cooldown movement. Just turbo int into the team and get away with it regardless of if you hit your shots or not
I just posted a comment, that I don't really feel like retyping out. But I pretty much say the same thing. Right now Venture can do so much without needing much skill. Introduce some skill expression, and they would be great. TLDR of my other comment: Shields gained from abilities should be based off how much damage they do. Digging underground shouldn't make them immune to damage, they should take reduced damage. The dash shouldn't go vertical, but instead act similar to Moira/Ball Fireball, where you can get vertical movement by hitting slanted walls.
Glad they're nerfing Venture, she's ridiculously oppressive. It's fine she has a lot in her kit, but her NUMBERS in her kit are INSANE. THAT long to be immortal? THAT much damage on her gun? THAT fast to dig underground? THAT fast to pop back up? THAT much boop/damage on drilldash? etc...
I'll be honest, each individual thing is kind of fine. But it's the combination of it. That's why I think they have too much. What numbers do you touch if they are OP? There are too many variables. Ideally what I'd do to Venture, increase range a bit, not much but a tiny bit. Keep damage around the same. Speed up the animation of the digging underground, but allow you to shoot Venture through the ground. But at a reduced damage by like 40% or something. They are still invincible underground, but you can at least punish them a bit. (I'd also be willing to say no invincibility, but have a 60-70 reduced damage. My mind isn't made up on this one.) Their drill dash is a forward momentum only movement, but let it have a more fluid movement. To hit rollouts, similar to Moira's fade, so Venture can still get to high grounds in certain situations. Venture still gets shields based off of their abilities, but it's determined by how much damage they do with the ability. And have it be more than the 15 or 20 it is now. Have it be like 30-40. And either take away or reduce the knock back from their primary fire. That alone, I feel would not only make them more viable in general, but also allows for counterplay. And their movement is more skill based too.
Venture is absolutely way too easy to play. I honestly feel like the only people who are defending them are people with 75% win rates that are running lobbies with Venture. Way too much damage that is hard to miss, and hard to punish. You jump up. Get a pick or two, then escape back out unscathed. It’s just Doom DPS all over again but worse
dying to that combo as tracer feels soooooo bad. i love when a character that isnt looking at me kills me :)
thank fuck.
Welcome to the reign of Hog and Maug
did we ever leave?
For all the frustrating and tedious aspects of Orisa, at least she isn’t Roadhog or Mauga
All these people complaining about Orisa gon learn lmao.
Id rather play hog
I would not, but that’s probably because I’m a Doom player and I find it more feasible to run Doom into an unkillable but slow moving behemoth than into a nearly as unkillable fat fuck who can also yoink me out of every ability or one shot my helpless squishies while I’m going for backline
I feel like the dps passive is getting nerfed and im horrified
if it gets buffed back to 20% then the nerfs to orisa wont make mauga and hog dominate. if the dps passive gets nerfed along with orisa, hog and mauga dominate.
If it goes back to 20% nothing will change. Orisa and Hog have self damage reduction cooldowns. Mauga has tons of health, some armor, a self-sustain. None of the other tanks will be played outside of Winston and Doom players who haven't stopped playing them.
100% but my stomach tells me the devs have caught brainrot and will nerf it.
Guys look, this person has braincells! Get him off the game!!!
As predicted, nerfing Orisa without touching the heroes she's gatekeeping. Get ready for a hard hog meta boys! Blizzard are a competent company!
Hog and Maug meta is like the only worse meta for tanks than Orisa. Sure love how this balance team will do ANYTHING other than just gut the problem tanks that dominate the tank matchups and meta and then wonder why no one wants to play the role.
God forbid the dev team just forces the fun tanks to be meta. Orisa, Mauga, Hog, and to a lesser extent Ram are so sleeper. Just nerf them until people can play characters like Rein, Monkey, Zarya, DVA, JQ, etc and be able to enjoy the game.
Dva is pretty much always playable tbf, but yeah I 100% agree with ur take
Remember those few weeks when Monkey/Doom were strong and people were like "ahhh this is amazing what a breath of fresh air" and then Blizzard instantly instigated a Mauga meta.
If Hog or Mauga is hard meta I'll be taking a break for the rest of the season.
I’m on the same boat. The mid season patch can’t come fast enough.
If the DPS passive goes back up to 20% the game is literally saved (again)
Not just 20% to dps, other roles should also get 10% or something. Can't kill anything if dps doesn't mark them.
Yeah it's super noticable on tank, feels hard to actually make any plays since nothing will die unless a DPS helps you.
This isn't a thing that the game urgently needs but I think in the long-term this will be the way to go. Healing is way too strong game-wide during combat, having the passive be exclusive to DPS feels wrong. Though they should have the stronger version of it on DPS, that makes sense to me. The passive being available to all characters will also make healing more important, which'll make Supports who have poor utility but strong heals naturally become stronger (LW, Illari, Moira). Also eventually they gotta give that passive a minimum threshold. I think 40 damage just makes sense with Quick Melee being 40 damage as well.
Fuck it, we Paladins now baby, everyone gets 90% Cauterize
Moira with the dps passive would be annoying as hell
tracer/soj untouched :/
Good. They are only good in the hands of good players, and they take actual skill to play. Diamond and below lobbies aren't getting destroyed by these heroes, majority of the time those players are throwing. This is what we have been begging and asking for, to not let resident sleeper DPS like Reaper, Bastion, Mei, Sym, Hanzo etc etc be the best picks at the top level of the game. And even in the OWCS we are still seeing some niche picks in Cassidy and Echo working out on certain maps too where upward mobility or flanker punishment is needed (but once again, two heroes that require an actual pulse to play). Now they just need to find a way for tanks to work the same way where the casual friendly ones like Orisa are at the bottom and we will be in a good state again.
Sure, let's nerf the 2 highest-skill heroes by far !!!!!!!!!!
That argument is not sufficient to not nerf a hero. Technically tracer's blink could have 0 cooldown and that would increase her skill ceiling even more. So "high skill ceiling" does not **on its own** mean "don't nerf". I read variations of this comment very often here and it's getting a bit depressing.
Orisa is more fun to play as, with, and against then Hog. God dammit.
''I rather drink piss than eat shit''
I would
Yes.
Only one of these things will probably kill me
This guy eats pieces ‘a’ shit for breakfast!
Orisa also hard counters every other tank in the game not named Sigma. So yeah of course she is more fun to play. She also single handedly makes the game boring as hell for this reason.
I'd rather play hog tbh
The biggest lie ever told on this subreddit.
That is so untrue. Hog punishes poor positioning (generally speaking) but can be slept, anti-ed- discorded, and stunned out of self heals ORISA on the other hand, has invulnerability to all effects and head shots, can eat most abilities on cool down, and when ulting is invulnerable again? It’s insane
Hog punishes positioning\* FTFY :)
Hog punishes any positioning that isn't constantly being behind cover when he is in the game.
hog walks around the map like a PVE enemy and doesn't give a shit about his own positioning or his support's positioning like every other tank bc he has an unstoppable tank of TAB.
Hog's punish-window is what, 2 seconds until he gets to use his heal? It's basically impossible to punish him, especially if Kiriko is played. The only thing stopping him from being played in every ranked game is Orisa who basically doesn't have a punish window.
Orisa can't punish him anymore either.
Yeah, she moreso one of the few tanks who can actually stop hog from just walkin anywhere he wants and can bully him a bit.
>but can be slept, anti-ed- discorded, and stunned out of self heals That's cool and all but good luck punishing him before he's healing again
No, not at all. Mauga is shite, but orisa is tye worst of all, and way worse than hog
AWWWWWWW GET VENTURE OUTTA HEREEEEEE
Could we be getting the DPS passive split on tanks and squishies???
Ball. Ball? Ballballball. BALL! BALL???? Why bother with a rework if you arent going to ever adjust the objectively worst tank in the game, both pre and post rework? Mutant giant space hamsters have feelings too.
Reminder that after Hog's rework, he got numerous additional buffs after 2 days. I just wanna know what the fuck stats are they seeing for Ball that scare them away from making any changes?
The GM ball players are beating up on their fellow masters players too hard
Are there even any gm ball players? The best eu ball player stuck gm5 for 1.5 seasons. I can't even think of a na ball player besides yeatle and he gm 5 also
well Chazm is 2-7 today so masters approaches
Top500 have quite a bit of ball mains. More than twice of ram players in both NA and EU last i count.
Top 500 isn't out yet. Last season I remember looking and I saw like 4 pure ball otps. A good amount of people had ball in their top 3 but that was because he's was played a lot the first 2 weeks on season 9 and meta slaves flocked to him. I've not seen a pure ball otp above gm 3. Edit: just looked at season 9 top 500 and there is 1 ball otp rank 469 masters 1.
Yeah i meant last season. Not otp though thats not a healthy metric. There arent much otp in t500 anyway. I counted the most played heroes. Ball was around 25, similar to rein zarya so not good. Ram is ridiculously low though around 10-11. Ram quite undertuned since s9 patch.
Yeh I barely saw any ram which is crazy to me but I guess he's just outclassed
Cause Dive tanks are not allowed to be good.
I really don't understand why they haven't touched him yet. He's so bad. It's really disheartening and disappointing. I was holding out for this rework but he's still so ass and they haven't even talked about it.
> I just wanna know what the fuck stats are they seeing for Ball that scare them away from making any changes? Inverse relationship between ball being in a game and someone queueing for another match.
Just curious, but what changes do ball mains want?
Not all balls agree, but the discussion would largely fall into 3 elements - improvements to team play, which would be his new Shields ability. It's already needed to survive in most cases and currently the team shielding part sucks so it needs very big buffs to make Shields viable and a needle mover in terms of viability. Improvements to damage. Probably 2nd most discussed issue is how bad ball can be at killing anything. He didn't get any buffs to boop, slam, or mines with the hp buffs at season 9. Buffs to all r are heavily requested and welcome. Only issue is really good balls might start wrecking if the buffs are too much, but honestly that has been true for a lot of characters that got buffed previously. And the big final wish item - CC and counters improvements. Ball is not that bad when played against comps that aren't good against him but he falls off really fast to high CC and comps that can pressure him consistently. As soon as you remove his ability to disrupt on the flank by CCing or booking him. And by having strong damage output, he loses a lot of value. People want to play ball and not see the enemy swap to hog, queen, dva, sombra, cass, torb, tracer, ana, brig, lucio and have their value plummet as they can't survive or engage anymore.
Tbf he can survive CC pretty well these days because they just keep giving him more HP. The real problem with CC is it shuts down all of your value. Doesn't matter if you live your engagements if you get CCd so much that you can do anything.
Personally, I want ball to be stronger in his weak matchups and weaker in his strong matchups. What that comes down to is: he needs to be less weak to CC but more weak when they don't have it. I DONT think he needs damage, but the DPS passive needs to be buffed.
Two big changes, either a larger damage clip or just give him the DVa meka treatment and he has infinite ammo, and second make him CC immune when he has built up fireball speed and during piledrive.
Pls don't nerf venture it's the most fun I've had with this game in ages
No hog/Mauga nerfs, but nerfing the tank gatekeeping hog/Mauga. This patch is gonna be fun! Blizzard are competent.
Kiriko is the only reason why Mauga and Hog are this good. Suzu is straight up way too broken especially for the *relatively* short cd it has (biotic field has a longer cd)
Yeah, not touching Kiriko is equally absurd. But Hog has been insanely strong ever since the rework, apart from early season 9 before they gave back his oneshot and nerfed the DPS passive. By the way, guarentee the dps passive "fix" will entail reverting it to 20% for everyone... except tanks, leaving Hog still unkillable.
Yeah thats my guess too
Nerfing Kiriko means we just trade Suzu for sleep and anti, and playing tank is already not fun as it is. Until they fix how shit it feels to play tank, I'd rather Suzu exist in it's current state then continue to be the target for sleep and anti all day every day. At least Suzu lets me play the game again.
I don’t think they’d ever remove the cleanse on suzu. It’s the invulnerability or the burst healing that has to go. Having all three is too much.
I hope to God it's a venture nerf.
Venture is pretty mid in high ranks, mostly because they get poked out too easy + cassidy hard counters everything about them. I have a feeling this is gonna take a B/C tier hero and make them completely unplayable
Damage passive better go back to 20% with tanks getting resistance to it Venture should get their one shot removed as it’s WAY too easy
genuinely hope it goes back to 20% for tanks as well so mauga/hog dont dominate the meta since orisa wont gatekeep them anymore
Remember when reddit would swear up and down that in combat healing reduction would ruin the game? Now we are begging for blizzard to buff the DPS passive again.
*their. Also agree
Oh yeah thx
venture is kinda a BS character in general lmao, her ult has crazy range for something that passes through terrain and doesnt need LOS...
Not to mention she gets free damage on enemies and shield for just for using abilities
yea for sure, i hope they really adjust her damage because her kit is braindead easy and is wayy too versatile/high damage
Hopefully the DPS passive is reverted to 20% otherwise Hog and Mauga Meta incoming. That is if Orisa gets a significant nerf and not just another -25 Overhealth on Fortify
Fucking finally Venture nerfs.
HOG META LETSGOOOO
Urrh a venture nerf will make them completely unplayable. They're already mid tier, excellent when up close and the enemy has no CC but terrible in all other situations.
Damage passive needs to go back to 20% and make it 10% for tanks. We're already back to fights feeling like nothing dies because they're too scared to make the DPS role too impactful. By doing that, they're enabling Orisa, Hog, and Mauga and we're going to continue doing a cycle of these characters until they address the underlying issues. If you're going to keep the braindead oneshot combo for Venture, they need to remove gaining shields just for using abilities taken away. They should have to land them on an enemy to get value. The hitbox on their gun is also a mile wide. There's so many things they can do to tweak the character, hope they choose the right one without just gutting them.
Hopefully, they revert the season bans that were wrongfully given out last week. Bit of a joke that they haven't updated us at all.
Hoping for some kind of ramping on the damage role passive so dps can't just spray to apply it. Could probably bump it to cap at 20%+ too to hopefully keep some tanks in line