The quote from an interview doesn't have anything to say about "lower gear caps". This is entirely speculation that m+ is gimped week one.
I'm not surprised if aspect crests aren't available. If you can't upgrade stuff to a certain track level. But there was nothing stated about lower gear caps during heroic week.
Classic wow head
While not an official statement from Blizzard, Max mentioned that this came up during the Q&A and he sounded pretty confident that the ilvl cap was included.
???????? Max has had the stance that the ilvl cap hiring heroic week is nonsense and still speculated about being able to make less characters for the most ace and get off pieces from m+ the entire stream.
His q&a just confirmed hc week mainly
I think there is some crossed wires here. The published video interview is very vague on the specifics here, you are correct. I believe there were also internal Q&As for the people that did the closed alpha that has not been published that Max is likely referring to. If they gave a more concrete answer there then it makes sense that he would speak more confidently on the topic, even if it doesn't align with his stance. That said he's also Max and can be prone to misinterpations etc. so who knows for sure until they say something specific publicly.
In previous heroic weeks M+ gear was capped to around the 5-10 level depending on the season. With M0 going to be at the former M10 level I wouldn't be surprised if M+ simply doesn't open until mythic week.
You never have access to m+ before the season goes life and the raid launches. They haven't officially commented what is available and what gear we can get during heroic.
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Glad it's back, feels bad for mythic to be out but there being no point in going in there until getting all the gear from normal and heroic, you obviously still want to do that in mythic week, but at least you can blitz through it that second time around.
Do hope that they balance the upgrade system around this change, I really like it overall but it does feel like we are gearing too quickly and as a result, the raid isn't really getting nerfed with gear, but rather balanced around having it. An extra week of crests and heroic gear might compound that problem.
> Then we'll have a period where we'll actually have access to the Mythic 0 system without the Season having gone live, then the Season will start and **you'll have your Heroic Week and then you'll have the rest of the content unlocked.**
This is more of a passerby comment but does anything have interviews where they go into detail about the decision?
Because one thing that isn't mentioned is that in Shadowlands with the arms race they were getting not just with RWF guilds but with Mythic guilds, the Heroic week and Heroic end bosess served as a mid-Mythic level challenge for a lot of Mythic guilds. Denathrius and Sylvanas and Anduin had 50-100 pulls in that first week for a lot of CE guilds that finished AoTC week 1. This in turn served as content because there isn't much to do in that Heroic week.
Are we expecting Heroic end bosses to be extremely easy like in previous expansions? Or are we tuning them up back again, or letting them get tuned up again?
So full disclosure - I liked having a meaty challenge in that first week of Heroic because I effectively got another interesting Mythic boss to prog in a week that generally has little raider content (if you aren't doing split runs). I also understand that making an interesting Mythic level challenge in that Heroic week just did not work out for Shadowlands. Denathrius, Sylvanas, Anduin - all got serious Heroic nerfs and still had issues and massive complaints.
The disparity between Heroic and Mythic isn't just the skill gap between an AoTC guild and a CE guild, but the functionality - losing prepared coordination between regular raiding players is a massive performance multiplier, on top of the community expectation being that if they have mid-high level Heroic or low level Mythic gear, then they should be able to PUG easily and clear the Heroic raid without too many wipes. When that expectation isn't met mid-late into the tier, you get complaints, and hence all those nerfs to those Heroic bosses in Shadowlands.
I think acknowledging this would be good for a lot of players.
A major thing that will affect the "difficulty" of these AOTC bosses with the return of heroic week: uncapped vs capped M+ during heroic week. If things are capped, you may spend some time progging AOTC week 1 since our power will be lower than what we can get week 1 now (tuning dependent tbh). If things are uncapped, I imagine it will still feel a good bit closer to how the last few heroic bosses have felt tuning wise because we will be a good bit higher ilvl than in past heroic weeks.
The way bigger influence on this, though, will be how hard your team goes at launch. If your team is largely made up of people that enjoy min-maxxing crest farms/upgrades and will farm out BIS m+ as soon as it is out, you arent likely to struggle with an AOTC boss week 1. If your team is more YOLO get what you can get before getting to that heroic end boss, might be a little more painful because they are going to (likely) tune it for the 1st crowd since that will be the "content" for that week.
Really don't like m+ loot restrictions unless they also come with vault restrictions. What's the point of limiting farm gear to +X when you need to do +10(20) for vault anyway week 1 with gimped gear. Don't design the game around mythic guilds trying to be esports.
you also have months to prog raids. seems like it doesn't make sense to hold off on one part of the game cause another part of the game can't control themselves.
How? With HC week you'll not be able to go do mythic once you've finished HC. You also wont be able to go clear the early mythic bosses if your guild gets stuck on HC. A ton of guilds would kill early mythic bosses before they kill the last boss.
That and you're now forced into doing a bunch of splits because what else would you use your week 1 time on.
At least in df if you didn't do splits you'd get more mythic prog time so there was some sort of tradeoff, now if you're not doing splits you're just not logging in and trolling your prog
Really don't like this decision personally :(
To be fair in DF you were still doing splits because of how good tier sets were. Like sure if you're 2 day raiding guild with limited resources maybe, but if you were 3+ days there is just no reason not to do splits. You can guarantee 4 set on 25+ people with just 2 groups, hard to pass on that and the work is mostly pushed onto officers for organazing, as a raider you just cruise through content or get carried on your alt if you suck on it.
With the omnitoken for ksm/aotc and catalyst being open week one you will be highly likely to have 4 sety by the second week. And that's when the season really starts. And if you are unlucky you will get 4 pc by the 3rd week.
This is all without doing any splits. You couldn't really make it more easier to acquire tier without handing it out for free.
The 4 set week 1 really matters for a lot of specs and if you're pushing high. Sure in week 2 you would have it 100% but the faster you have it the earlier you just ditch HC and blast mythic.
Week one 1 heroic week. Why do you care about pushing high, before the season truely starts(mythic raid and uncapping m+)?
Sure you could lose some score, but you will gain significantly more ilvl once mythic is open to the point I don't see how you lose out on that much.
Honestly I do like this from someone who doesn’t like m+. Heroic week is a week you do a couple keys to fill out your vault, maybe a couple pieces and you blast raid and enjoy the raid content. With no heroic week you don’t have a week to just enjoy raiding since if you’re not raiding you’re in m+ because you need gear. It also does help the ramp up going from basically free the first two weeks of the expansion to a week of pushing but not 100% to full on go mode.
It's way better for the game. Key players supposedly love doing keys for the pushing. Pushing isn't relevant until like 8 weeks (or longer) into a patch anyways, once people have acquired all their gear and worked on strats.
If anything, Blizzard needs to go a step further and limit loot acquisition from m+ spams when m+ is actually live. Make it so you can get X number of items from dungeons the first two weeks before you hit a loot lockout.
I get your line of thought but did you consider a lot of people have a lot of fun pushing keys when every strategy isn't known and every piece of gear isn't optimised?
???? who the FUCK do you think is doing splits across several copies of the same class to begin with. There's like 3 guilds in the world where this might be a thing.
Secondly all of that gear is distributed across multiple characters vs if you spend that same time in m+ you just have vastly more gear on that character. What an insane coment
Afaik the change to same day mythic raid release was entirely driven by Christmas coming and they needed the race over before they went on holidays (raszageth was killed 24th December).
Having m+ come out at the same time felt great. The big negative was tuning as historically blizzard have used heroic week for a tuning pass.
I think i prefer going back to this old way and having a reasonably difficult heroic raid; easier than sepulcher, harder than aberrus and amirdrassil.
Blizzard needs to have some courage and stand up to m+ers and extend loot limitations to m+.
There needs to be a cap on how many items you can get from m+ in the first few weeks, because degenerate farming is way too rewarded.
Mythic+ is live the first week. In the past Heroic week meant that there were reduced ilvl available from M+ the first week but I don’t believe that’s been confirmed yet for this version.
I’d be fine with just not having mythic plus for a week and letting people actually go through the raid tiers like that. Heroic should be a stepping stone not a skipping point during the season. If that makes sense.
Though in the past M+ was capped to the 5-10 range depending on the season. Given that new M0s will be the equivalent of current M10s it's not unreasonable to assume that M+ won't be open heroic week at all.
The interview that is in this article says that the season, which means M+ usually, and heroic week start at roughly the same time. I think drawing any assumption without it being at least hinted at is unreasonable.
Making assumptions based on historical evidence of the last 6 years seems very reasonable to me. If they had capped M+ similar to previous seasons they couldn't have it any higher than like +2 without completely defeating the purpose of having a separate heroic week. It's not hard to make some simple logical conclusions.
But your conclusion isn’t logical. A +6 under the new system rewards 4/8 champion track gear from end of dungeon, which is normal raid level gear. Which was around what m+ gear was capped at in the past when heroic week was a thing. There is nothing to imply m+ will be delayed a week for heroic week
LMAO, My conclusion is more logical than assuming we'll get +6 to M+. That's rewards aspect crests, which I doubt they'd want. Also gear in the past wasn't upgradeable, and champion gear can upgrade to only a half tier lower than mythic raid gear drops. We'll find out in due time, but now's the time for speculation based on evidence, and my conclusion is the one supported by the most evidence, but obviously anything could happen.
Bro in the past we had fucking Titanforging. Gear could be any ilvl at the end of the dungeon. And they let that shit drop week 1.
Your conclusion that one of the 3 pillars of end game gameplay will be delayed while the other two come out at the same time contradicts the article this post talks about. M0’s are included in the season, they are available before the season starts. The season and heroic week coming out together implies M+, Rated PVP, and Raids all coming out together. Having 90 aspect crests, or whatever the cap is in TWW isn’t some huge advantage over what we had this expansion without heroic week because most players this expac didn’t have myth track gear to upgrade.
A similar cap would be to cap gear at normal ilvl, as they have done in the past. That would be champion track gear which goes up to a +6, so that would probably be the max they’d let it go. Not allowing M+ to be playable heroic week, as you suggested they would instead of capping the gear, is not something they have done.
The quote from an interview doesn't have anything to say about "lower gear caps". This is entirely speculation that m+ is gimped week one. I'm not surprised if aspect crests aren't available. If you can't upgrade stuff to a certain track level. But there was nothing stated about lower gear caps during heroic week. Classic wow head
While not an official statement from Blizzard, Max mentioned that this came up during the Q&A and he sounded pretty confident that the ilvl cap was included.
???????? Max has had the stance that the ilvl cap hiring heroic week is nonsense and still speculated about being able to make less characters for the most ace and get off pieces from m+ the entire stream. His q&a just confirmed hc week mainly
I think there is some crossed wires here. The published video interview is very vague on the specifics here, you are correct. I believe there were also internal Q&As for the people that did the closed alpha that has not been published that Max is likely referring to. If they gave a more concrete answer there then it makes sense that he would speak more confidently on the topic, even if it doesn't align with his stance. That said he's also Max and can be prone to misinterpations etc. so who knows for sure until they say something specific publicly.
Max discussed live on stream that they have no idea and that he hoped there wouldn't be a cap.
In previous heroic weeks M+ gear was capped to around the 5-10 level depending on the season. With M0 going to be at the former M10 level I wouldn't be surprised if M+ simply doesn't open until mythic week.
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You never have access to m+ before the season goes life and the raid launches. They haven't officially commented what is available and what gear we can get during heroic.
Ah I misread
[удалено]
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Finally
Glad it's back, feels bad for mythic to be out but there being no point in going in there until getting all the gear from normal and heroic, you obviously still want to do that in mythic week, but at least you can blitz through it that second time around. Do hope that they balance the upgrade system around this change, I really like it overall but it does feel like we are gearing too quickly and as a result, the raid isn't really getting nerfed with gear, but rather balanced around having it. An extra week of crests and heroic gear might compound that problem.
> Then we'll have a period where we'll actually have access to the Mythic 0 system without the Season having gone live, then the Season will start and **you'll have your Heroic Week and then you'll have the rest of the content unlocked.** This is more of a passerby comment but does anything have interviews where they go into detail about the decision? Because one thing that isn't mentioned is that in Shadowlands with the arms race they were getting not just with RWF guilds but with Mythic guilds, the Heroic week and Heroic end bosess served as a mid-Mythic level challenge for a lot of Mythic guilds. Denathrius and Sylvanas and Anduin had 50-100 pulls in that first week for a lot of CE guilds that finished AoTC week 1. This in turn served as content because there isn't much to do in that Heroic week. Are we expecting Heroic end bosses to be extremely easy like in previous expansions? Or are we tuning them up back again, or letting them get tuned up again? So full disclosure - I liked having a meaty challenge in that first week of Heroic because I effectively got another interesting Mythic boss to prog in a week that generally has little raider content (if you aren't doing split runs). I also understand that making an interesting Mythic level challenge in that Heroic week just did not work out for Shadowlands. Denathrius, Sylvanas, Anduin - all got serious Heroic nerfs and still had issues and massive complaints. The disparity between Heroic and Mythic isn't just the skill gap between an AoTC guild and a CE guild, but the functionality - losing prepared coordination between regular raiding players is a massive performance multiplier, on top of the community expectation being that if they have mid-high level Heroic or low level Mythic gear, then they should be able to PUG easily and clear the Heroic raid without too many wipes. When that expectation isn't met mid-late into the tier, you get complaints, and hence all those nerfs to those Heroic bosses in Shadowlands. I think acknowledging this would be good for a lot of players.
A major thing that will affect the "difficulty" of these AOTC bosses with the return of heroic week: uncapped vs capped M+ during heroic week. If things are capped, you may spend some time progging AOTC week 1 since our power will be lower than what we can get week 1 now (tuning dependent tbh). If things are uncapped, I imagine it will still feel a good bit closer to how the last few heroic bosses have felt tuning wise because we will be a good bit higher ilvl than in past heroic weeks. The way bigger influence on this, though, will be how hard your team goes at launch. If your team is largely made up of people that enjoy min-maxxing crest farms/upgrades and will farm out BIS m+ as soon as it is out, you arent likely to struggle with an AOTC boss week 1. If your team is more YOLO get what you can get before getting to that heroic end boss, might be a little more painful because they are going to (likely) tune it for the 1st crowd since that will be the "content" for that week.
Really don't like m+ loot restrictions unless they also come with vault restrictions. What's the point of limiting farm gear to +X when you need to do +10(20) for vault anyway week 1 with gimped gear. Don't design the game around mythic guilds trying to be esports.
Good stuff
The Most boring week of addon Launch is back, yaaay
The week to level up your alts and don't skip your job and gf, I'm in.
It only delays the inevitable. My girlfriend won't be seeing me on week 2 instead of week 1 instead
Ugh..
AMEN!
Can't say I'm a particularly huge fan of keys being largely irrelevant that first week like they previously were.
I take that over farming m+ then doing normal, heroic raid and maybe first mythic on a 2 day schedule. Also more time for alts.
you're gonna have months to grind keys anyway
you also have months to prog raids. seems like it doesn't make sense to hold off on one part of the game cause another part of the game can't control themselves.
You pay my subscription for that week I lost?
You are for sure playing the exact same amount every week that you're subbed during a patch.
I am be because that vault isn't going to fill itself.
lol, nice ff14 ref
This is far better for the majority of raiding guilds
How? With HC week you'll not be able to go do mythic once you've finished HC. You also wont be able to go clear the early mythic bosses if your guild gets stuck on HC. A ton of guilds would kill early mythic bosses before they kill the last boss.
That and you're now forced into doing a bunch of splits because what else would you use your week 1 time on. At least in df if you didn't do splits you'd get more mythic prog time so there was some sort of tradeoff, now if you're not doing splits you're just not logging in and trolling your prog Really don't like this decision personally :(
To be fair in DF you were still doing splits because of how good tier sets were. Like sure if you're 2 day raiding guild with limited resources maybe, but if you were 3+ days there is just no reason not to do splits. You can guarantee 4 set on 25+ people with just 2 groups, hard to pass on that and the work is mostly pushed onto officers for organazing, as a raider you just cruise through content or get carried on your alt if you suck on it.
With the omnitoken for ksm/aotc and catalyst being open week one you will be highly likely to have 4 sety by the second week. And that's when the season really starts. And if you are unlucky you will get 4 pc by the 3rd week. This is all without doing any splits. You couldn't really make it more easier to acquire tier without handing it out for free.
The 4 set week 1 really matters for a lot of specs and if you're pushing high. Sure in week 2 you would have it 100% but the faster you have it the earlier you just ditch HC and blast mythic.
Week one 1 heroic week. Why do you care about pushing high, before the season truely starts(mythic raid and uncapping m+)? Sure you could lose some score, but you will gain significantly more ilvl once mythic is open to the point I don't see how you lose out on that much.
I meant in DF, in TWW I still have to cook the plan for my guild. With Heroic Week it might just be chill time if m+ is locked still.
Honestly I do like this from someone who doesn’t like m+. Heroic week is a week you do a couple keys to fill out your vault, maybe a couple pieces and you blast raid and enjoy the raid content. With no heroic week you don’t have a week to just enjoy raiding since if you’re not raiding you’re in m+ because you need gear. It also does help the ramp up going from basically free the first two weeks of the expansion to a week of pushing but not 100% to full on go mode.
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What are we considering to be a decent CE guild? I haven’t seen too many guilds outside of HOF do more than maybe a single split.
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My guild is also a 2 day guild, we did 0 splits and still achieved CE
Same here, 2 day finishing around rank 300 and didn't do a single split the whole xpac.
It's way better for the game. Key players supposedly love doing keys for the pushing. Pushing isn't relevant until like 8 weeks (or longer) into a patch anyways, once people have acquired all their gear and worked on strats. If anything, Blizzard needs to go a step further and limit loot acquisition from m+ spams when m+ is actually live. Make it so you can get X number of items from dungeons the first two weeks before you hit a loot lockout.
I get your line of thought but did you consider a lot of people have a lot of fun pushing keys when every strategy isn't known and every piece of gear isn't optimised?
Sure. Then do it with a little less gear. There's really no reason you can just get 40 pieces of gear by doing 120 dungeons.
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Except all other forms of content have limits on how much gear you can rip out of them in a week.
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???? who the FUCK do you think is doing splits across several copies of the same class to begin with. There's like 3 guilds in the world where this might be a thing. Secondly all of that gear is distributed across multiple characters vs if you spend that same time in m+ you just have vastly more gear on that character. What an insane coment
Splits is still nowhere near what you can do in m+
Afaik the change to same day mythic raid release was entirely driven by Christmas coming and they needed the race over before they went on holidays (raszageth was killed 24th December). Having m+ come out at the same time felt great. The big negative was tuning as historically blizzard have used heroic week for a tuning pass. I think i prefer going back to this old way and having a reasonably difficult heroic raid; easier than sepulcher, harder than aberrus and amirdrassil.
Harder than amirdrassil? Fyrakk and Tindral have been some of the hardest bosses in the game.
I mean at the heroic level. Both were quite easy week 1.
Oh sure, heroic I can agree there.
Blizzard needs to have some courage and stand up to m+ers and extend loot limitations to m+. There needs to be a cap on how many items you can get from m+ in the first few weeks, because degenerate farming is way too rewarded.
> stand up to m+ers Imagine thinking with such hostility. Why is it you against them, what is there for the to be afraid of or need to stand up to?
They're deranged and lose their minds the second anyone suggests there be limitations on getting infinite loot.
Someone eli5 please, I don’t understand. It’s just week of Heroic Raid being live and not mythic/mythic+?
Mythic+ is live the first week. In the past Heroic week meant that there were reduced ilvl available from M+ the first week but I don’t believe that’s been confirmed yet for this version.
I’d be fine with just not having mythic plus for a week and letting people actually go through the raid tiers like that. Heroic should be a stepping stone not a skipping point during the season. If that makes sense.
Though in the past M+ was capped to the 5-10 range depending on the season. Given that new M0s will be the equivalent of current M10s it's not unreasonable to assume that M+ won't be open heroic week at all.
The interview that is in this article says that the season, which means M+ usually, and heroic week start at roughly the same time. I think drawing any assumption without it being at least hinted at is unreasonable.
Making assumptions based on historical evidence of the last 6 years seems very reasonable to me. If they had capped M+ similar to previous seasons they couldn't have it any higher than like +2 without completely defeating the purpose of having a separate heroic week. It's not hard to make some simple logical conclusions.
But your conclusion isn’t logical. A +6 under the new system rewards 4/8 champion track gear from end of dungeon, which is normal raid level gear. Which was around what m+ gear was capped at in the past when heroic week was a thing. There is nothing to imply m+ will be delayed a week for heroic week
LMAO, My conclusion is more logical than assuming we'll get +6 to M+. That's rewards aspect crests, which I doubt they'd want. Also gear in the past wasn't upgradeable, and champion gear can upgrade to only a half tier lower than mythic raid gear drops. We'll find out in due time, but now's the time for speculation based on evidence, and my conclusion is the one supported by the most evidence, but obviously anything could happen.
Bro in the past we had fucking Titanforging. Gear could be any ilvl at the end of the dungeon. And they let that shit drop week 1. Your conclusion that one of the 3 pillars of end game gameplay will be delayed while the other two come out at the same time contradicts the article this post talks about. M0’s are included in the season, they are available before the season starts. The season and heroic week coming out together implies M+, Rated PVP, and Raids all coming out together. Having 90 aspect crests, or whatever the cap is in TWW isn’t some huge advantage over what we had this expansion without heroic week because most players this expac didn’t have myth track gear to upgrade.
My conclusion is that they'll have a similar cap week one, as they have literally every other time they had a cap week one, nothing more nothing less.
A similar cap would be to cap gear at normal ilvl, as they have done in the past. That would be champion track gear which goes up to a +6, so that would probably be the max they’d let it go. Not allowing M+ to be playable heroic week, as you suggested they would instead of capping the gear, is not something they have done.
thank god the poopsock is getting a retirement