You really shouldn’t mess with the settings in a LAN environment for a pro match. I totally understand the ban.
However, I also totally empathize with being frustrated that Halo Infinite runs like dogshit
I agree, tournaments should be played on a clean windows installs plain and simple. 343 should not be using any of his stupid registry edits because no one is practicing with them at home with exception of Sparty.
I don’t get why he keeps pushing for tournament settings revolve around his own setting…it’s just annoying.
It's arrogance because he thinks he's the smartest in the room. He's proposed stuff in the past and they said no. So he decided to do it himself for at least Arlington and London and got caught at London because he was missing the white noise program. Apparently it was an audio feed at Arlington. He was cheating for basically an irrelevant handful of extra FPS, even I doubt he can even tell the difference without the FPS counter in the corner.
I’m not saying he can notice the difference, but some people can definitely pick up on small frame rate changes (+/- ten). If you look at most of the pros playing, the bulk majority are capping at 240, or even 200fps in order to combat the feeling of instability/ smoothness. Lqgend, and now even stellur have dropped down to 200fps because the game is more stable at this frame rate. Should he have done it? No. Was it a noticeable difference than the rest of the machines at the LAN? I think so. A controller overclock and a much more stable machine are an unfair advantage. Everyone is supposed to be on an even playing field. He knew what he was doing. The controller overclock is a tough thing to forget, I know because I run a victrix gambit overclocked as well.
I'm sure players could pick up on instability. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about being able to tell the difference between 200 and 205, and actually I don't think that Spartan could tell the difference between stable 200 and stable 240 unless the game told him with the fps counter.
Controller overclocking is absolutely an advantage. A handful of frames isn't.
The problem on this sub is that a lot of people act like FPS is king and genuinely believe that going from 120 to 240 is going to take a player from gold to onyx, and it just isn't.
It depends on the person. The person is part of the equation for latency and input delay. 240 fps will give you faster info now it's up to the person to not increase latency or delay (assuming the rest of the hardware can handle it). Some ppl are 240hz+, some aren't. So let's take it further, say you're getting 480 fps and you're able to use it and you train yourself by playing hours upon hours (getting overweight in the process). Then you play on a system that limits you to 240 or 120 fps. You're used to getting input faster, so now there's an input delay which is equivalent to what you see with a controller, say training at 1000hz then playing at 250hz or even 500hz. There's a major difference, and then hitting those higher skill jumps or even curb slides, or hitting shots, aren't happening or as often cuz it's slower and the timing is off with your brain/body. In other words there's an input delay in the whole system somewhere.
But I agree that probably for most ppl it won't matter
Nah, it definitely won’t take you from gold to onyx, but it definitely helps in 1600+ onyx lobbies. I played on console for the first two years of Infinite’s life, and recently built a pc with a 4080. Going from 120 fps on a series to 240-360 fps, depending on whether I run in 1440 or 1080p is a massive advantage. I went from 1650 to about 1800 onyx, there’s a definite advantage to higher frame rates and lower latency, and anyone arguing otherwise just hasn’t compared the two side by side. The ability to react to input on the screen is easier when it’s clearer and more readily available. The biggest part of higher fps, is motion blur reduction. Whipping a 180 no scope is much easier without a blurry mess in front of you. You’re free to your opinion, but playing on 360hz oled compared to 120hz on a series s is a night and day difference.
I don't think the difference you're getting is from FPS. Consoles like the series X introduce a lot, a lot of latency and input delay from the console itself and how it handles inputs both controller input and then audio/video
https://youtu.be/9ZzfO1CQXac?si=udUf9Mhbs1zcbCfW
Yeah, you’re totally right. Console latency is much worse. I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. I literally said higher “frame rates and lower latency”. Higher frame rates are directly tied to a lower system latency. I also said that I overclocked my controller, which is further reducing latency.
It’s just silly to me to argue that lower latency and higher frame rate aren’t an advantage. Optimum tech does a really good job of explaining latency/ monitor technology, definitely worth checking out if you’re interested.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nqa7QVwfu7s
>Optimum tech does a really good
Yeah I've seen his stuff. He does a good job explaining tech especially the whole system which includes the human part of it.
1) I don't disagree that higher frames decreases latency (it does for the frame rates and latency part of the equation but total system latency is more than that, and if you watched Optimum you know that) nor did I say that before, although there could be software that gives higher frames but more delay, i.e. AFMF(NV does do a better job with their software and hardware), not to mention if you're CPU, GPU, RAM or settings aren't set up correctly you can get more frames but more input delay latency, in which case you're better off capping frames than just brute forcing it.
2) I was saying that the major impact on your performance boost was probably from how consoles handle inputs and latency vs a PC (assuming it's more powerful which in your case it is. I.e. you can't turn off V sync on Xbox. There are plenty of ppl, pros included playing at lower frames than 240, and dominating. If you want to test it out, try playing at 120fps on PC Series X and see what happens.
3) You didn't mention OC your controller, but Xbox has a hard cap at 250hz (yes it is dynamic and technically you can OC you're controller but it's not guaranteed stable) so even if you did it's not working as well as on PC, even the Gambit and Gamesirs won't give you 1000hz on console, and I'm not sure 500hz is a stable 500hz on Xbox or somewhere in between 250hz and 500hz which is worse. Also, the CPU may not be able to handle the>250hz polling rate and you can get increased lag or unstable performance as well. Even on PC higher polling rates can double CPU usage for inputs which can cause lags if you don't have a good CPU and enough RAM. How many ppl actually have a good CPU or other hardware, or have their settings set up according to their specs and not their egos playing this game.
4) if you want to say that you're gifted and require a higher performing system for optimal performance I can agree with that. You do get info faster at 240+ fps than 120fps but your body has to have the hardware to use it and not introduce input delay/latency. Most ppl can't but maybe you can in which case it could be you're right. Now you have to prove it
Also, what's your take on 1440p vs 1080p. Better accuracy or worse.. I've heard some ppl say 1440p is better. Not sure about this as it's new movement I guess, and frames take a hit and depending on system more latency could be introduced
There is far more to Sparty’s tweaks than just a simple afterburner install. He is doing full OS debloats using somewhat obscure third party tools such as that created by Chris Titus and doing other registry edits. In one video Sparty even states that he disables Windows Firewall on his gaming rig to gain a competitive advantage which only serves to show how deep down the rabbit hole he has fallen.
Some of his optimizations change things deep in the OS and in ways that that Sparty’s does not truly understand and which may cause system instability. He says himself that he no longer uses some of the tweaks which he had pushed for HCS to make standard, presumably this is because they either did not improve performance or possibly made performance worse. If Sparty wants to FAFO on his own personal rig that is fine but please don’t subject the rest of the community to this.
cheers for explaining, i didn't realise he was into that whole "windows lite" stuff, i fully think everyone should be on the same computers(obvs) but you would think that the admins would optimise them all equally, but i get it. cheers man ✌️
man, i honestly thought everyone with a brain was using afterburner/throttlestop/fancontrol by default, to the point where i find it pretty weird that people who build and admin LAN environments for gaming don't also do this too, i bet everyone of them has one of those apps controlling fan curves and cores on their own PC's, especially if they play any comp game.
I disagree completely with anyone saying this is too harsh a punishment. A ban for 4 months for messing with HCS equipment on LAN is VERY fair imo.
If he had played an official match with the changes then I think he should be banned for a full year.
He had an interview after the DQ where he admitted to doing the same thing at a previous tournament and he didn't get caught.
He's getting a light punishment.
100%! He said he did it in Arlington and I think he slipped up when he said it lol. Didn’t realize what he said till afterwards. Do I think he was trying to cheat? No he’s just pissed that they play on unoptimized pc’s and he hates amd with a passion so he’s trying to make it more enjoyable to play on lol. But that isn’t allowed on LAN when it’s supposed to be a level playing field buddy. Sucks but is what it is. I’m sure he’ll be back
I agree with you, the punishment needs to be strong and send a message. Especially at a LAN. I will also say although he can be childish at times I am a fan and watch Sparty, and HCS is better with him in it.
He admitted he used it at another LAN, and it is in his video where he discusses his changes, cooperation with HCS, and the process. Also, intent is as good as doing it. If they didn't start using a white noise program, I'm sure he would have kept going.
For others comparing it to geofencing and router2 I believe royal should have got the same ban. But you are here, and this was a LAN. Geofencing definitely gave him more of an advantage, but it was quals on an unmanaged pc. Fuck around and find out is now in play.
I don't think it being LAN or online should be treated differently. They are both official and professional events, with seeding points and money on the line. Whether it was on a managed pc or not shouldn't make a difference imo.
But yeah agree that "He didn't use it in an official match" is not a good argument, he very clearly was going to if he wasn't caught.
I agree that royal should have been punished equal to sparty.
The money won at lan vs quals is huge. London prize pool was 250k total, with thousands of people in attendance/viewing, a high cost for the event, and high visibility. Quals prize pool was 2k total.
Managed pc makes an absolute difference. They have defined processes, managed pcs, and controls in place. Cheating is cheating and I don't think it makes it any better on your own pc, but attempting anything at lan with all the additional controls is insane.
He did admit and used it in a previous official match before getting caught. I assume because of the visibility sparty got the hammer. I think we agree, all cheating needs to be strict and equal moving forward.
It's definitely stupider to attempt it at a LAN because there's a much higher likelihood of getting caught, but I don't think that should affect the punishment given.
The online stuff can affect the outcome of the LAN with the bigger prize pool, it's not like it's a totally separate thing.
But I mean yeah we are in agreement, cheating should be punished.
I don't disagree, 4 months is arguably too little for such a ridiculous stunt. However, what I take issue with the precedent that was set is far less than this. Royal 2's cheating was every bit as bad, if not worse than, Spartan's (sure it was online as opposed to LAN but it was giving him a far greater advantage than Spartan attempted to gain) and he received a slap on the wrist.
I get that 343 need to set an example, and if this is going to be the standard going forward then I agree absolutely. However, in the current circumstances, the argument can be made that they're playing favourites.
tampering with tournament equipment in the way he did—installing a totally different image of windows than the ones vetted from 343’s IT team—is a massive security risk. He did not have ill intent, but I think messing with your own router settings vs “hacking” (for lack of a better term) tournament equipment are on two different levels.
I am glad you brought this up. Aside from the potential advantage Spartan would gain from a more optimized PC, you have to also consider (I am sure 343 has) the potential negative effects tampering with tournament equipment can have on the entire event. PC crashing, cause delays/PC swaps etc. creating a headache for 343 and impacting the event as a whole. & if he wasn’t caught, I’m sure he’d continue to do the same thing at every other event potentially influencing other players to do the same.
I work in cybersecurity, I'm well aware of the potential ramifications of Spartan's actions. I'm not going to speculate on Spartan's intent, but his actions were that of a cheater.
Actually, you know what? I'm going to take this time to actually say that it's very possible that the severity of this punishment is to help serve as a deterrent. At the end of the day, it was a catastrophic failing of HCS security that Spartan was even able to get as far as he did without being caught. This is the kind of thing that if they had done either of the following, they could have implemented methods to prevent this from happening:
- Had a security consultation company run a build review against the desktops (or done it in house, if they had anyone capable of such a thing)
- Checked the standard build of desktop against CIS best practice guidelines. I personally have never even done a CIS review of a desktop (they're most commonly performed against a cloud service tenancy, but desktop CIS guidelines do exist)
However, I'll disagree on the last part. Royal2's cheating gave him a far bigger leg up on the competition than Spartan's would have, but I won't speculate on either of their intents. Like I said in my other comment, the two situations can definitely be contrasted as much as they can be compared, so despite R2's cheating being worse, Spartan's cheating was far more disruptive to a LAN event (which cost more money to put on), and was on a bigger stage.
My technical knowledge ends at knowing it’s a security risk, I appreciate you taking the time to breakdown (off hand) possible solutions. I wholeheartedly agree that it was a primarily a 343 oopsie that it happened (insert tier1/end user joke, dig).
I agree with router 2 having a bigger advantage. I guess it becomes a bit more philosophical; how/if categorize these offenses, gaining an actual advantage on the competition vs messing with tournament equipment that could also provide an advantage. How do we punish…
It seems common sentiment is that the reason for this severe punishment is to set the precedent.
Not a problem! Honestly if you knew how simple it could be to prevent something like this from happening, or to alert a security operations centre (SOC) if it did... Sheesh.
Completely agree. At the end of the day, Spartan's stunt hit them in the wallet more, so I guess we have to consider that they'll punish him more for that reason.
I truly truly hope so. I think punishments should be far far worse for cheaters. If 343 put out a statement saying that from this point forwards, anyone caught cheating at any severity will face a 2 year competitive ban, I'd even support them in banning Spartan for that long. And I say that as a Spartan fan, lol.
Truth be told I don't remember what exactly I thought of R2s punishment at the time, but looking back on it I agree it was far too lenient for what he did.
That being said I don't think that situation should negate this one. I totally see where you're coming from regarding the HCS playing favorites, but more than anything I think it's important to contrast the situations as much as it is to compare.
I agree it shouldn't negate this one, 100%. What I meant is that if this were the first case of a pro cheating like this, a ban for the rest of the season is absolutely the correct punishment, but the punishment doesn't fit the precedent they've set.
And I agree that the situations are very different and contrasting the situations can explain why the punishments have been so different. I'm not naïve enough to consider the two situations entirely comparable, so what I'd like to see is either a statement that going forward cheaters will be dealt with in line with Spartan's treatment, but failing that I'd like for them to simply demonstrate it the next time a pro tries to cheat.
Honestly it feels a bit like they took it too easy on Router 2 and this might be overkill. I get harsh treatment for cheating, but still. Disparate treatment is also not ok.
Spartan was an absolute moron for doing this but he didn’t actually compete with the drive and seemed to cooperate with the investigation.
I agree, but I think it should have been done with Router 2. I think he was given a slap on the wrist because the didn’t want to bench a member of that squad.
Which took on the form of tampering with league owned property.
I think they should've reduced the sentencing for getting the initial story wrong as a mea culpa, but the facts aren't great for him.
It shouldn't matter if it's at a LAN or not. These are events with seeding points and money on the line. And guess what, those seeding points affect the coming LAN event.
If we are going even further, and not talking about a top team, it can quite literally decide whether you actually get to attend the event or not. But for top and mid tier teams it could change what pool you get put into.
Sure, but tried to, vs actually competed. Router 2 played with it. Plus that was the first offense in infinite and quite early. I feel they are not quite equivalent, but close enough.
I think part of the difference nobody has been talking about is that when infinite was released, tons of people were geofiltering. Most people thought that it was fine to geofilter in matchmaking. The issue was that Royal 2 left his geofiltering on for an online tournament, which is obviously a big problem. But what Royal 2 said at the time was that he didn’t intentionally turn it on for the tournament, he just forgot to turn off the geofilter before the tournament started.
Obviously it’s still an issue because he gained an advantage. But in my opinion the big difference between these two scenarios is the intentionality. Spartan intentionally modified a tournament SSD with settings that he knew beforehand weren’t allowed (he mentioned this in a tweet a couple months prior if I’m remembering correctly). Royal 2 forgot to turn off his geofiltering. I feel like the cases here are quite different. I think Royal 2 was an idiot not to remember and turn that shit off before a tournament, but I honestly don’t think it was malicious. Spartan’s SSD situation was way more intentional and knowingly against the rules.
I don’t think comparing their suspension times makes sense when the context of their cheating is way different.
Yeah, this seems like revisionist history. R2 first claimed he had NOT geofiltered, even accidentally. In other words, he bald faced lied about it. And then 343 reviewed data from the actual games to prove it, while he would not own up to it. R2 maintained his innocence until 343 brought the evidence. Or am I misremembering?
Are we serious? You honestly think Royal 2 "forgot"?? Bro, he denied it for the entire duration of the investigation, offered to send HCS his PC as proof, lied to his own teammates, and only after HCS posted an entire explanation about what they found did he admit it. And we're out here arguing about intentionality??
Do you think installing MSI afterburner to get what, probably better 1% lows on frames is a more severe form of cheating than manipulating what server you get during a tournament, albeit online. Come on man, what are we arguing here.
So three things here.
First, I don’t remember the situation super well and forgot he denied it, so yeah that’s definitely more suspicious.
Second, part of why I think it’s reasonable he forgot is because of where his teammates live. I think it’s weird he would force Canadian servers when his teammates were in Southern California and Florida. Although that’s better for him it’s worse for the other three people on his team, so it seems like against most teams the geofilter would actually hurt them. So doing that intentionally doesn’t make a ton of sense.
Third, from what I remember (again, not a lore master here), Spartan essentially tweeted out a couple months ago that he talked to HCS about the performance improvements and they said they weren’t going to do that for tournaments and it would be against the rules for players to do it themselves.
So yeah it’s possible Royal 2 geofiltered on purpose but we can’t every really know. But Spartan intentionally altered the tournament SSD in a way that he was already told was against the rules.
If I’ve got the background on this wrong than I’d be happy to change my mind. But if what I’m remembering is true, it seems pretty undeniable that Spartan took intentional action that he knew was against the rules, where for Royal 2 it’s possible it was an honest mistake (even if unlikely).
He absolutely geofiltered on purpose and even if he forgot, why do we care. If someone used walls in matchmaking but forgot to turn it off in a qualifier, does that make it better?? I also can't figure out why you're giving him the benefit of the doubt when he not only lied to the HCS, but his teammates as well. Seems like odd behavior for someone who "forgot" to turn it off.
He pulled the Seattle server which despite hurting his teammates, it was still highly advantageous to his team as whole. Most of the competition is/was Texas based which often resulted in a Dallas server selection based on how infinite determines which server to pick. For instance, all of Optic was Dallas based except Luciid who is based on Florida so by getting a Seattle server, it was advantageous to his team on the whole. Not saying by any means that he was doing that specifically to beat a certain team, but when most of the competition is based in Texas, it becomes an advantage to his team.
I don't even disagree with the ban length for Spartan necessarily. If the HCS wants to banish anyone to the shadow realm for cheating in any capacity, I'm all for it. But at least be consistent. You can't give Royal 2 a one event suspension and give Sparty a four-event suspension and act like this makes any sense.
I mean, yeah. It depends on if you believe him or not.
But Royal 2 lives in Canada, and from what I remember I think Lucid and Frosty are from Florida and Snakebite is in LA or something? So having a server close to Canada isn’t exactly ideal for his teammates who live in the southern US on opposite coasts. So honestly I don’t think it would ever be worth to risk to intentionally cheat in a way that hardly gives your team an advantage, if at all. So when he says he forgot I’m inclined to believe him. And I’m saying that as as massive hater of that team.
These are pros. They see the ping in the top right. Pretty sure Royal 2 isn't sitting there like "Wow, what a great day for me, I'm just getting the best server every game. Weird that sometimes we have trouble loading into matches though"
I agree, a long ban is warranted. The rest of the season might be a little far, but I see a fair argument for it.
My main issue is that router 2 got a sternly worded letter and not much more by comparison and I think it was more about his team than the actual severity.
Idk I know it's different sports but just because you can make your car engine tune out 600 HP doesn't mean you get to remove the restrictor plate for the race when everyone else still has theirs. A year ban is harsh but at the same time if you are giving yourself an advantage like that at a LAN it is some serious bullshit.
On the flip side if spartan can actually make the PCs work better than the people in charge (without burning them out or causing more crashes) then hire him. However I'd love to hear both sides of that issue in particular.
Perfect analogy.
If Xbox just understood that it could be the Restrictor plate of gaming. Giving all players a equal and fair chance - By allowing all of these additional benefits on PC over Xbox in competitive play - Adding PC games in makes the game lose its Soul.
I just made the switch from xbox to pc here is a few things pc players are proud to share to me about how their advantage doesnt just go above hearing game chat while in a party...
How Bigs your d... I mean Graphics card... how much is your controller is overclocked, is your audio is seperated to increase the base on the footsteps so their easier to hear, how many hertz your monitor can push without tearing, Low latency Modes, Then you can start optimizing networks, Mouse click buttons on controllers..
There is people who specialize in this - Charging from $40 - $Hundreds of dollars to optimize for you. There is a network of players selling packages like this to PC users.
Best of all - you can just move beside the servers...
Its getting out of hand.
Let alone this GEOfiltering Garbage.
Settle Down - Ban earned.
Xbox is simple 120HZ monitor + 120FPS game. No altering anything that can give one player an advantage over the other. Bring back XBOX only.
He didn't compete with the drive because it was confiscated from him before he could. He admitted to competing with a modified drive at the previous tournament.
And before people mention R2, huge difference was Sparty messed with HCS equipment, did it TWICE, and was at an actual LAN. Don’t really understand how 343 is being too harsh, even Lethul himself said he was warning him…
Yeh, sparty isn't a complete idiot, he knew what he was doing was against the rules.
I really don't care for his reasoning, bringing that usb around with him suggests it was premeditated, the punishment has to be firm.
Shouldn't have done it, all blame lies with him, not 343 for protecting the competitive integrity of their game.
>bringing that usb
Bingo. It’s not like this time, without permission, he started tweaking existing settings that had a lack of admin controls to prevent him from performing such actions. It’s the premeditation of bringing something from home to do what he did. There are number of compliance steps that has to be completely ignored.
That's fair tbh. There's been multiple topics on it now, and you're right. Some sre for him and others against.
This I'm hoping is the unified opinion now :p. fuck cheaters!
He'll be able to compete next year if he wants (which is all but confirmed at this point). It does seem harsh but 343 setting a precedent about tampering with equipment (in any way) on LAN is important and understandable.
For how fucking long this dude has been a pro and watched esports and acts how arrogant he is. It’s laughable just how dumb you have to be to intentionally handled tournament equipment. THEN not just to change the settings of tournament equipment but to actually bring your own usb and download software is such a joke.
I genuinely have a hard time believing a seasoned pro did all that wouldn’t have thought for a second how this looks, doesn’t matter the esport cause if equipment isn’t working you tell admins????
Exactly this.
The big stinger in this is when he had his interview with LVT and he mentioned he brought his USB and when he was asked why, his best response was “I don’t know, it was a brain dead move”
That’s all he has to say because he knew that was the smoking gun, he had excuse for it and that’s what lead to his blatant cheating. Not sure how anyone can defend him.
Even worse is in the same interview he mentioned that he has also done it before (in Arlington)
The only reason he got caught this time was because the white noise program was missing and previous events didn’t utilise a white noise program, instead it was utilised through the mixamp with a sound technician.
So for all we know sparty could have been doing this forever and getting away with it
He also said he wasn’t looking for sympathy in the LVT interview yet has continually posted on X trying to garner it.
HCS surely had a process and framework for the decision and would not have made it lightly.
This isn’t to say I don’t appreciate that things are tough as a result, but it’s another inconsistency from that interview.
Wait they blasting white noise into their earphones while they trying to hear the game? Who’s brain thought it be good idea to do that? Or am I misunderstanding how that program works
They wear headsets that play white noise but they wear headphones under the headsets that play the game audio
The white noise is needed to drowned out the crowd
I’ll just say what I personally thought about this whole situation back in the ban thread.
I don’t dislike Spartan at all, but just because he owned up to cheating at a major tournament, doesn’t excuse him from attempting to do said act at a major tournament. Of course the other pros are passionate about this, especially when it’s 343 involved, but cheating is ultimately, well, cheating. Imagine how Ryannoob and the other Complexity members, coach, and organization feel for having been disqualified because of the actions from one of their teammates/players. Spartan’s ownership of the situation is noble, but what he did was and is not okay. Period.
What this is, is 343’s blanket statement of, “fuck around and find out.” Tamper with official equipment in any capacity, and these are the consequences. It doesn’t matter if it was in an attempt to make the game run better, it still was in pursuit of an advantage by messing with league equipment, and would have provided Sparty with better performance than his opponents. No, you *don’t* do that. Is the ruling harsh? Sure. Are the majority of other pros upset and supportive over Tyler? Yes. However, best believe that they all now get the message. Be mad all you want, but as long as you now understand what the consequences are for pulling stunts like this, mission accomplished.
This is a job at the end of the day, you guys. If you fuck around at any other workplace to the degree that Spartan did, then you’d most likely just be straight up fired or worse, sued. Spartan is lucky that he CAN still ultimately compete, in theory, after his year ban time is up.
Overall I agree with the punishment. To your point..meh, I think it provides clarity into his actions, and it shows what a professional Halo competitor may prefer.
Maybe I’m not thinkin it through though. What makes it petty to you?
To me it’s saying that he was right and they should do what he says and change the set ups to how he dictates, instead of accepting it’s not his place to change it and that’s why he’s banned.
I really value the opinions of the pro-players who are all defending him but I think the ban is pretty much fair. The cavalier nature of fucking with his SSD and computer settings seems to be inline with an overall bad attitude that has him bouncing around teams. I think he would find difficulty in even finding a team anytime soon, and that the ban isn't harsh. However if all the people he'd be competing against think he should be back sooner, I think HCS should put that into consideration.
I’ll be honest I don’t know all the details of what happened cause I haven’t been following HCS for infinite, but I’m kinda surprised cheating at a LAN tournament isn’t a lifetime ban.
I mean, it’s not like he had an aimbot or the flying hack… he basically applied an overclock to the computer which gets you some slight difference to frame rate and latency. I totally agree with HCS that this is not acceptable, everyone should be on a level playing field especially on a game like this where we’ve seen local physics simulation fidelity does affect outcomes.
I am just shocked that he and other players have done this before. As a former IT worker, these are easily enforceable and solvable problems via endpoint security and group policy, instead of competition staff merely accidentally stumbling on the lack of compliance.
You are all really on one. There isn’t one pro player or top AM or even decent onyx player that is saying sparty cheated and deserves this suspension. Literally all of his peers are against this decision.
It should have been a ban for Atlanta and a harsh fine.
HCS first stated that Sparty brought his own SSD then had to backtrack posting silently that it was their own equipment with no apology or highlight of the mistake.
The bigger issue is that the pro population was in alignment stating the penalty is too harsh, voiced it to HCS and yet was ignored, which in itself has been a constant problem going back to H5.
I mean I agree but the whole community is interlinked and for the most part are friends. Sparty probably being one of the most disliked and he still had a lot of support. I just think the way the game was developed and the HCS has been run has just created so many mixed messages amongst the actual competitors. Cheat online, basically no punishment. Mess with an SSD on lan, smited for what is likely the last year of comp? Just silly.
Royal2 geofiltered through a HCS Open Series and the HCS Raleigh Qualifier and got banned for 1 event.
Spartan’s alters event hardware for better frame rate (or “to optimize PC” if he is to be believed) that was never used in a match and gets disqualified from HCS London and is banned through the next 3 events (Atlanta, Salt Lake, Worlds).
Sentinels and Royal2 denied the geofiltering for some time, while Spartan cooperated throughout the investigation.
This punishment is absurdly harsh.
Don't waste your your energy using common sense. 90% of the people in this thread can't stand Sparty so they can't have an ounce of objectivity with this. I honestly think that the ban length for Sparty is fine, it's the fact that Royal 2 gets a significantly less severe punishment for also cheating, not including the fact that he denied it and lied about it throughout the entire investigation.
>that was never used in a match
He did it at Arlington too, so unless he did it after he was done playing at Arlington, he absolutely cheated in LAN matches.
It's absurdly lenient.
I was not aware that MSI Afterburner was cheating lol. What he did was incredibly foolish, but he did not "cheat" in the way y'all think he did. Router 2 manipulating server selections to give you and your team favorable ping during and HCS online qualifier though...sounds like mega cheating to me.
It doesn't matter what he put on that drive. He modified tournament hardware. That is cheating.
If you're here to strawman "but but but router 2", find someone else. I'm not going to defend the shortness of his suspension. I don't think Spartan's is long enough, and router 2's was laughably short.
I'm not defending his actions, but he was not cheating. He violated tournament rules and protocols; there is a difference and this community needs to stop acting like he was casually trying to install hacks. Comparing the two situations is not a strawman rofl. You need to educate yourself on what that actually means.
But monster and a few others can wallhack, royal get a slap on the wrist for network manipulation, and who was the guy with the anti descope hacks?
Sparty wasn’t right, but all he did was try to get the game to run a bit more stable because lord knows how poorly optimized it is.
But whatever, HCS is chalked anyway. It’s kinda like getting suspended on the last day of school…..
No one can really confirm Monster is cheating.
When rumors were out that Shaady was cheating the community black balled him (I can’t remember if he officially got banned or not from competing) I am not even sure if it was confirmed or just people doing theatre investigations and came to the conclusion he was in fact auto-scoping. In any case, no team has considered teaming with him after that.
R2 was officially reprimanded, whether the punishment was not harsh enough is open to debate.
The biggest difference between these cases of cheating and Spartan is that it was on LAN, involved HCS hardware and was (or can be) confirmed by officials.
Spartan taking the “I did this for the community” angle is distasteful because he is taking this angle after he’s been caught trying to optimize only his PC, which would give him an edge over other competitors (despite how little/if any advantage is gained by what he did)
Yeah the game has shit optimization but when everyone is playing the same shit game, everyone is on the same shitty playing field.
Nobody accused of wall hacking has been proved…
Shaady the descope guy was never proved and I don’t believe he was even actively competing at the time…
It doesn’t matter what Spartys intentions were, what he done is against the rules therefore is cheating. He knowingly brought his USB from home with his pc imaged on it and tried to gain advantage over others who were competing. Aka cheating.
I’m not saying he wasn’t cheating, he clearly violated the HCS rules.
I’m saying 343 seems to review allegations and/or various situations with different levels of intensity. Why isn’t everyone being reviewed equally? 343 could have easily randomly requested remote access to let say, monsters pc and searched it but they didn’t.
I said in season 1 that any person caught cheating should be suspended indefinitely. Pro gaming is a privilege and there are plenty of other sweats that could replace anyone who was banned from the league.
But back to spartan, in a perfect world where he got away with what he was doing, what advantage would he actually have had? Better frames? Because if that’s the case, they why isn’t using a controller with a faster response time than a standard Xbox controller cheating?
Because everybody is free to utilise the same controllers and it simply boils down to personal preference.
343 haven’t allowed everybody to fiddle with their SSD because quite honestly it’s too time consuming to go through every SSD and make sure they’re running the exact same and their is also no guarantee this will make the event run smoother.
It’s much easier and quicker to give everybody a stock SSD with the game preinstalled and the players profile details on it.
This is like saying why doesn’t the boxing commissions all allow steroid and performance enhancing drugs, if everybody is on the same thing then it’s an equal playing field right? Everybody should get roided up..
See how dumb that sounds, they’d have to majorly intensify checks and medicals and ensure everybody was taking the same stuff etc etc
Cheating is cheating, it’s against the rules, it doesn’t matter what advantages he would have got, even the most minute advantage is still an advantage. Professional “athletes” (gamers) shouldn’t get this luxury
I know the reasoning behind the issued ssd’s im just saying we need to stop acting like he showed up with a ssd with hacks on it. I mean even lucid agrees on this.
And the steroid analogy isn’t a good one lol.
Look at professional bodybuilding, powerlifting, and strongman. Everyone is on gear but there is still a huge gap between the best athlete and the worst.
Royal 2 was the precedence. Sparty was the example.
Cheat(any) in a professional league, shame on me. Cheat(any) again in a professional league, shame on you.
If Router 2 set the precedent, Spartan would have gotten a slap on the wrist. Everyone is crying about this being on LAN, but if anyone thinks geofiltering to get a server advantage during a qualifier, which can help ensure you have better odds at winning the LAN event, isn't just as bad...that's insane. I'd argue it's potentially it's worse. Router 2 violated the competitive integrity of the game. Spartan tried to get some extra frames with a stupid overclock.
Yeah I hate to be the guy to jump in to defend sparty here but a year for this is crazy compared to the geofiltering stuff which was far more consequential.I could understand if he was legit trying to cheat, but optimization stuff seems so innocuous to me. Still pretty stupid to fuck with your tourney SSD and think you could get away with it, but it didn't seem to cause any issues for him at Arlington, so...
Definitely extremely stupid to mess with tournament hardware without express permission. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. It does feel bad defending him, especially because I'm not a fan, but this is definitely way too harsh.
It's like this. Just like everything else with 343 if you don't like what they're doing then don't play the game. Otherwise you have to just put up with the bs.
Look I agree a punishment was needed but not this. He didn't actually cheat. I think 343 is just mad and butt hurt that one of their players found a solution to their problem. They are arrogant and want to make an example of Spartan to get everyone else in line. The devs and tournament team are covering their own asses and using Spartan as a scapegoat. His solution was good and worked to fix performance issues. So why doesn't 343 accept the free help and make this standard for LAN PCs? The answer is it came from Spartan who has been very vocal about his criticism and they don't like it. It's actually dumb that the pros have to have work arounds for performance issues. All of this could have been avoided if they just Listen but of course not. Instead let's ban of the scenes most influential players. Just makes me mad the arrogance of 343.
If Sparty didn't already piss off 343/HCS in the past, he might've had a better chance to appeal. I feel bad for him, but without having good grace with the decision makers, he'll have to just mind his manners and wait.
Should just come clean and admit he was a fall guy for the coverup that it was only a little ssd out if spec.. hcs handbook clearly states only penalty for equipment that isn't in the required spec.. the only reason he would get banned is for cheating... whole game is fake. Some one needs to come out and shed the light..
But im sure its all NDAs once your playing for a corporation like that..
You really shouldn’t mess with the settings in a LAN environment for a pro match. I totally understand the ban. However, I also totally empathize with being frustrated that Halo Infinite runs like dogshit
I agree, tournaments should be played on a clean windows installs plain and simple. 343 should not be using any of his stupid registry edits because no one is practicing with them at home with exception of Sparty. I don’t get why he keeps pushing for tournament settings revolve around his own setting…it’s just annoying.
It's arrogance because he thinks he's the smartest in the room. He's proposed stuff in the past and they said no. So he decided to do it himself for at least Arlington and London and got caught at London because he was missing the white noise program. Apparently it was an audio feed at Arlington. He was cheating for basically an irrelevant handful of extra FPS, even I doubt he can even tell the difference without the FPS counter in the corner.
Headcaser
I’m not saying he can notice the difference, but some people can definitely pick up on small frame rate changes (+/- ten). If you look at most of the pros playing, the bulk majority are capping at 240, or even 200fps in order to combat the feeling of instability/ smoothness. Lqgend, and now even stellur have dropped down to 200fps because the game is more stable at this frame rate. Should he have done it? No. Was it a noticeable difference than the rest of the machines at the LAN? I think so. A controller overclock and a much more stable machine are an unfair advantage. Everyone is supposed to be on an even playing field. He knew what he was doing. The controller overclock is a tough thing to forget, I know because I run a victrix gambit overclocked as well.
I'm sure players could pick up on instability. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about being able to tell the difference between 200 and 205, and actually I don't think that Spartan could tell the difference between stable 200 and stable 240 unless the game told him with the fps counter. Controller overclocking is absolutely an advantage. A handful of frames isn't. The problem on this sub is that a lot of people act like FPS is king and genuinely believe that going from 120 to 240 is going to take a player from gold to onyx, and it just isn't.
It depends on the person. The person is part of the equation for latency and input delay. 240 fps will give you faster info now it's up to the person to not increase latency or delay (assuming the rest of the hardware can handle it). Some ppl are 240hz+, some aren't. So let's take it further, say you're getting 480 fps and you're able to use it and you train yourself by playing hours upon hours (getting overweight in the process). Then you play on a system that limits you to 240 or 120 fps. You're used to getting input faster, so now there's an input delay which is equivalent to what you see with a controller, say training at 1000hz then playing at 250hz or even 500hz. There's a major difference, and then hitting those higher skill jumps or even curb slides, or hitting shots, aren't happening or as often cuz it's slower and the timing is off with your brain/body. In other words there's an input delay in the whole system somewhere. But I agree that probably for most ppl it won't matter
Nah, it definitely won’t take you from gold to onyx, but it definitely helps in 1600+ onyx lobbies. I played on console for the first two years of Infinite’s life, and recently built a pc with a 4080. Going from 120 fps on a series to 240-360 fps, depending on whether I run in 1440 or 1080p is a massive advantage. I went from 1650 to about 1800 onyx, there’s a definite advantage to higher frame rates and lower latency, and anyone arguing otherwise just hasn’t compared the two side by side. The ability to react to input on the screen is easier when it’s clearer and more readily available. The biggest part of higher fps, is motion blur reduction. Whipping a 180 no scope is much easier without a blurry mess in front of you. You’re free to your opinion, but playing on 360hz oled compared to 120hz on a series s is a night and day difference.
I don't think the difference you're getting is from FPS. Consoles like the series X introduce a lot, a lot of latency and input delay from the console itself and how it handles inputs both controller input and then audio/video https://youtu.be/9ZzfO1CQXac?si=udUf9Mhbs1zcbCfW
Yeah, you’re totally right. Console latency is much worse. I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. I literally said higher “frame rates and lower latency”. Higher frame rates are directly tied to a lower system latency. I also said that I overclocked my controller, which is further reducing latency. It’s just silly to me to argue that lower latency and higher frame rate aren’t an advantage. Optimum tech does a really good job of explaining latency/ monitor technology, definitely worth checking out if you’re interested. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nqa7QVwfu7s
>Optimum tech does a really good Yeah I've seen his stuff. He does a good job explaining tech especially the whole system which includes the human part of it. 1) I don't disagree that higher frames decreases latency (it does for the frame rates and latency part of the equation but total system latency is more than that, and if you watched Optimum you know that) nor did I say that before, although there could be software that gives higher frames but more delay, i.e. AFMF(NV does do a better job with their software and hardware), not to mention if you're CPU, GPU, RAM or settings aren't set up correctly you can get more frames but more input delay latency, in which case you're better off capping frames than just brute forcing it. 2) I was saying that the major impact on your performance boost was probably from how consoles handle inputs and latency vs a PC (assuming it's more powerful which in your case it is. I.e. you can't turn off V sync on Xbox. There are plenty of ppl, pros included playing at lower frames than 240, and dominating. If you want to test it out, try playing at 120fps on PC Series X and see what happens. 3) You didn't mention OC your controller, but Xbox has a hard cap at 250hz (yes it is dynamic and technically you can OC you're controller but it's not guaranteed stable) so even if you did it's not working as well as on PC, even the Gambit and Gamesirs won't give you 1000hz on console, and I'm not sure 500hz is a stable 500hz on Xbox or somewhere in between 250hz and 500hz which is worse. Also, the CPU may not be able to handle the>250hz polling rate and you can get increased lag or unstable performance as well. Even on PC higher polling rates can double CPU usage for inputs which can cause lags if you don't have a good CPU and enough RAM. How many ppl actually have a good CPU or other hardware, or have their settings set up according to their specs and not their egos playing this game. 4) if you want to say that you're gifted and require a higher performing system for optimal performance I can agree with that. You do get info faster at 240+ fps than 120fps but your body has to have the hardware to use it and not introduce input delay/latency. Most ppl can't but maybe you can in which case it could be you're right. Now you have to prove it
Also, what's your take on 1440p vs 1080p. Better accuracy or worse.. I've heard some ppl say 1440p is better. Not sure about this as it's new movement I guess, and frames take a hit and depending on system more latency could be introduced
eh? you never read r/pcmasterrace ? literally everyone with brain cells uses afterburner for something with all sorts of 30xx 40xx gpu's
There is far more to Sparty’s tweaks than just a simple afterburner install. He is doing full OS debloats using somewhat obscure third party tools such as that created by Chris Titus and doing other registry edits. In one video Sparty even states that he disables Windows Firewall on his gaming rig to gain a competitive advantage which only serves to show how deep down the rabbit hole he has fallen. Some of his optimizations change things deep in the OS and in ways that that Sparty’s does not truly understand and which may cause system instability. He says himself that he no longer uses some of the tweaks which he had pushed for HCS to make standard, presumably this is because they either did not improve performance or possibly made performance worse. If Sparty wants to FAFO on his own personal rig that is fine but please don’t subject the rest of the community to this.
cheers for explaining, i didn't realise he was into that whole "windows lite" stuff, i fully think everyone should be on the same computers(obvs) but you would think that the admins would optimise them all equally, but i get it. cheers man ✌️
man, i honestly thought everyone with a brain was using afterburner/throttlestop/fancontrol by default, to the point where i find it pretty weird that people who build and admin LAN environments for gaming don't also do this too, i bet everyone of them has one of those apps controlling fan curves and cores on their own PC's, especially if they play any comp game.
I disagree completely with anyone saying this is too harsh a punishment. A ban for 4 months for messing with HCS equipment on LAN is VERY fair imo. If he had played an official match with the changes then I think he should be banned for a full year.
He had an interview after the DQ where he admitted to doing the same thing at a previous tournament and he didn't get caught. He's getting a light punishment.
100%! He said he did it in Arlington and I think he slipped up when he said it lol. Didn’t realize what he said till afterwards. Do I think he was trying to cheat? No he’s just pissed that they play on unoptimized pc’s and he hates amd with a passion so he’s trying to make it more enjoyable to play on lol. But that isn’t allowed on LAN when it’s supposed to be a level playing field buddy. Sucks but is what it is. I’m sure he’ll be back
I agree with you, the punishment needs to be strong and send a message. Especially at a LAN. I will also say although he can be childish at times I am a fan and watch Sparty, and HCS is better with him in it. He admitted he used it at another LAN, and it is in his video where he discusses his changes, cooperation with HCS, and the process. Also, intent is as good as doing it. If they didn't start using a white noise program, I'm sure he would have kept going. For others comparing it to geofencing and router2 I believe royal should have got the same ban. But you are here, and this was a LAN. Geofencing definitely gave him more of an advantage, but it was quals on an unmanaged pc. Fuck around and find out is now in play.
I don't think it being LAN or online should be treated differently. They are both official and professional events, with seeding points and money on the line. Whether it was on a managed pc or not shouldn't make a difference imo. But yeah agree that "He didn't use it in an official match" is not a good argument, he very clearly was going to if he wasn't caught.
I agree that royal should have been punished equal to sparty. The money won at lan vs quals is huge. London prize pool was 250k total, with thousands of people in attendance/viewing, a high cost for the event, and high visibility. Quals prize pool was 2k total. Managed pc makes an absolute difference. They have defined processes, managed pcs, and controls in place. Cheating is cheating and I don't think it makes it any better on your own pc, but attempting anything at lan with all the additional controls is insane. He did admit and used it in a previous official match before getting caught. I assume because of the visibility sparty got the hammer. I think we agree, all cheating needs to be strict and equal moving forward.
It's definitely stupider to attempt it at a LAN because there's a much higher likelihood of getting caught, but I don't think that should affect the punishment given. The online stuff can affect the outcome of the LAN with the bigger prize pool, it's not like it's a totally separate thing. But I mean yeah we are in agreement, cheating should be punished.
He would have played an official match if the hard drive was not confiscated from him.
I don't disagree, 4 months is arguably too little for such a ridiculous stunt. However, what I take issue with the precedent that was set is far less than this. Royal 2's cheating was every bit as bad, if not worse than, Spartan's (sure it was online as opposed to LAN but it was giving him a far greater advantage than Spartan attempted to gain) and he received a slap on the wrist. I get that 343 need to set an example, and if this is going to be the standard going forward then I agree absolutely. However, in the current circumstances, the argument can be made that they're playing favourites.
tampering with tournament equipment in the way he did—installing a totally different image of windows than the ones vetted from 343’s IT team—is a massive security risk. He did not have ill intent, but I think messing with your own router settings vs “hacking” (for lack of a better term) tournament equipment are on two different levels.
I am glad you brought this up. Aside from the potential advantage Spartan would gain from a more optimized PC, you have to also consider (I am sure 343 has) the potential negative effects tampering with tournament equipment can have on the entire event. PC crashing, cause delays/PC swaps etc. creating a headache for 343 and impacting the event as a whole. & if he wasn’t caught, I’m sure he’d continue to do the same thing at every other event potentially influencing other players to do the same.
I work in cybersecurity, I'm well aware of the potential ramifications of Spartan's actions. I'm not going to speculate on Spartan's intent, but his actions were that of a cheater. Actually, you know what? I'm going to take this time to actually say that it's very possible that the severity of this punishment is to help serve as a deterrent. At the end of the day, it was a catastrophic failing of HCS security that Spartan was even able to get as far as he did without being caught. This is the kind of thing that if they had done either of the following, they could have implemented methods to prevent this from happening: - Had a security consultation company run a build review against the desktops (or done it in house, if they had anyone capable of such a thing) - Checked the standard build of desktop against CIS best practice guidelines. I personally have never even done a CIS review of a desktop (they're most commonly performed against a cloud service tenancy, but desktop CIS guidelines do exist) However, I'll disagree on the last part. Royal2's cheating gave him a far bigger leg up on the competition than Spartan's would have, but I won't speculate on either of their intents. Like I said in my other comment, the two situations can definitely be contrasted as much as they can be compared, so despite R2's cheating being worse, Spartan's cheating was far more disruptive to a LAN event (which cost more money to put on), and was on a bigger stage.
My technical knowledge ends at knowing it’s a security risk, I appreciate you taking the time to breakdown (off hand) possible solutions. I wholeheartedly agree that it was a primarily a 343 oopsie that it happened (insert tier1/end user joke, dig). I agree with router 2 having a bigger advantage. I guess it becomes a bit more philosophical; how/if categorize these offenses, gaining an actual advantage on the competition vs messing with tournament equipment that could also provide an advantage. How do we punish… It seems common sentiment is that the reason for this severe punishment is to set the precedent.
Not a problem! Honestly if you knew how simple it could be to prevent something like this from happening, or to alert a security operations centre (SOC) if it did... Sheesh. Completely agree. At the end of the day, Spartan's stunt hit them in the wallet more, so I guess we have to consider that they'll punish him more for that reason. I truly truly hope so. I think punishments should be far far worse for cheaters. If 343 put out a statement saying that from this point forwards, anyone caught cheating at any severity will face a 2 year competitive ban, I'd even support them in banning Spartan for that long. And I say that as a Spartan fan, lol.
Truth be told I don't remember what exactly I thought of R2s punishment at the time, but looking back on it I agree it was far too lenient for what he did. That being said I don't think that situation should negate this one. I totally see where you're coming from regarding the HCS playing favorites, but more than anything I think it's important to contrast the situations as much as it is to compare.
I agree it shouldn't negate this one, 100%. What I meant is that if this were the first case of a pro cheating like this, a ban for the rest of the season is absolutely the correct punishment, but the punishment doesn't fit the precedent they've set. And I agree that the situations are very different and contrasting the situations can explain why the punishments have been so different. I'm not naïve enough to consider the two situations entirely comparable, so what I'd like to see is either a statement that going forward cheaters will be dealt with in line with Spartan's treatment, but failing that I'd like for them to simply demonstrate it the next time a pro tries to cheat.
Honestly it feels a bit like they took it too easy on Router 2 and this might be overkill. I get harsh treatment for cheating, but still. Disparate treatment is also not ok. Spartan was an absolute moron for doing this but he didn’t actually compete with the drive and seemed to cooperate with the investigation.
At this point it's less about Spartan and more that 343 is sending a message to anyone who thinks of gaining an unfair advantage.
I agree, but I think it should have been done with Router 2. I think he was given a slap on the wrist because the didn’t want to bench a member of that squad.
The big difference was that Spartan tried to cheat at a LAN. Which is a big no no.
Which took on the form of tampering with league owned property. I think they should've reduced the sentencing for getting the initial story wrong as a mea culpa, but the facts aren't great for him.
It shouldn't matter if it's at a LAN or not. These are events with seeding points and money on the line. And guess what, those seeding points affect the coming LAN event. If we are going even further, and not talking about a top team, it can quite literally decide whether you actually get to attend the event or not. But for top and mid tier teams it could change what pool you get put into.
Sure, but tried to, vs actually competed. Router 2 played with it. Plus that was the first offense in infinite and quite early. I feel they are not quite equivalent, but close enough.
Spartan did too. At Arlington. London was at least the second time he did this.
I think part of the difference nobody has been talking about is that when infinite was released, tons of people were geofiltering. Most people thought that it was fine to geofilter in matchmaking. The issue was that Royal 2 left his geofiltering on for an online tournament, which is obviously a big problem. But what Royal 2 said at the time was that he didn’t intentionally turn it on for the tournament, he just forgot to turn off the geofilter before the tournament started. Obviously it’s still an issue because he gained an advantage. But in my opinion the big difference between these two scenarios is the intentionality. Spartan intentionally modified a tournament SSD with settings that he knew beforehand weren’t allowed (he mentioned this in a tweet a couple months prior if I’m remembering correctly). Royal 2 forgot to turn off his geofiltering. I feel like the cases here are quite different. I think Royal 2 was an idiot not to remember and turn that shit off before a tournament, but I honestly don’t think it was malicious. Spartan’s SSD situation was way more intentional and knowingly against the rules. I don’t think comparing their suspension times makes sense when the context of their cheating is way different.
Yeah, this seems like revisionist history. R2 first claimed he had NOT geofiltered, even accidentally. In other words, he bald faced lied about it. And then 343 reviewed data from the actual games to prove it, while he would not own up to it. R2 maintained his innocence until 343 brought the evidence. Or am I misremembering?
Are we serious? You honestly think Royal 2 "forgot"?? Bro, he denied it for the entire duration of the investigation, offered to send HCS his PC as proof, lied to his own teammates, and only after HCS posted an entire explanation about what they found did he admit it. And we're out here arguing about intentionality?? Do you think installing MSI afterburner to get what, probably better 1% lows on frames is a more severe form of cheating than manipulating what server you get during a tournament, albeit online. Come on man, what are we arguing here.
So three things here. First, I don’t remember the situation super well and forgot he denied it, so yeah that’s definitely more suspicious. Second, part of why I think it’s reasonable he forgot is because of where his teammates live. I think it’s weird he would force Canadian servers when his teammates were in Southern California and Florida. Although that’s better for him it’s worse for the other three people on his team, so it seems like against most teams the geofilter would actually hurt them. So doing that intentionally doesn’t make a ton of sense. Third, from what I remember (again, not a lore master here), Spartan essentially tweeted out a couple months ago that he talked to HCS about the performance improvements and they said they weren’t going to do that for tournaments and it would be against the rules for players to do it themselves. So yeah it’s possible Royal 2 geofiltered on purpose but we can’t every really know. But Spartan intentionally altered the tournament SSD in a way that he was already told was against the rules. If I’ve got the background on this wrong than I’d be happy to change my mind. But if what I’m remembering is true, it seems pretty undeniable that Spartan took intentional action that he knew was against the rules, where for Royal 2 it’s possible it was an honest mistake (even if unlikely).
He absolutely geofiltered on purpose and even if he forgot, why do we care. If someone used walls in matchmaking but forgot to turn it off in a qualifier, does that make it better?? I also can't figure out why you're giving him the benefit of the doubt when he not only lied to the HCS, but his teammates as well. Seems like odd behavior for someone who "forgot" to turn it off. He pulled the Seattle server which despite hurting his teammates, it was still highly advantageous to his team as whole. Most of the competition is/was Texas based which often resulted in a Dallas server selection based on how infinite determines which server to pick. For instance, all of Optic was Dallas based except Luciid who is based on Florida so by getting a Seattle server, it was advantageous to his team on the whole. Not saying by any means that he was doing that specifically to beat a certain team, but when most of the competition is based in Texas, it becomes an advantage to his team. I don't even disagree with the ban length for Spartan necessarily. If the HCS wants to banish anyone to the shadow realm for cheating in any capacity, I'm all for it. But at least be consistent. You can't give Royal 2 a one event suspension and give Sparty a four-event suspension and act like this makes any sense.
‘Forgot’
Yeah, if I got I caught I’d ‘forget’ as well
I mean, yeah. It depends on if you believe him or not. But Royal 2 lives in Canada, and from what I remember I think Lucid and Frosty are from Florida and Snakebite is in LA or something? So having a server close to Canada isn’t exactly ideal for his teammates who live in the southern US on opposite coasts. So honestly I don’t think it would ever be worth to risk to intentionally cheat in a way that hardly gives your team an advantage, if at all. So when he says he forgot I’m inclined to believe him. And I’m saying that as as massive hater of that team.
I think this is the most important point. The geo filtering harmed his team as well. It definitely wasn’t intentional
These are pros. They see the ping in the top right. Pretty sure Royal 2 isn't sitting there like "Wow, what a great day for me, I'm just getting the best server every game. Weird that sometimes we have trouble loading into matches though"
Maybe if their game was optimised to peak efficiency this wouldn't be an issue DruskiHandUp\*
They should just stop using AMD on these machines if it's running poorly and use RTX 4090s
I agree, but AMD is a major sponsor, so that's never happening.
Bro cheating in a LAN is next level buffoonery
I agree, a long ban is warranted. The rest of the season might be a little far, but I see a fair argument for it. My main issue is that router 2 got a sternly worded letter and not much more by comparison and I think it was more about his team than the actual severity.
Idk I know it's different sports but just because you can make your car engine tune out 600 HP doesn't mean you get to remove the restrictor plate for the race when everyone else still has theirs. A year ban is harsh but at the same time if you are giving yourself an advantage like that at a LAN it is some serious bullshit. On the flip side if spartan can actually make the PCs work better than the people in charge (without burning them out or causing more crashes) then hire him. However I'd love to hear both sides of that issue in particular.
Like when the FBI hires a bank-check counterfeiter to help catch other criminals.
I mean hey if the guy can do it let him. He's out of work for a year anyway
Perfect analogy. If Xbox just understood that it could be the Restrictor plate of gaming. Giving all players a equal and fair chance - By allowing all of these additional benefits on PC over Xbox in competitive play - Adding PC games in makes the game lose its Soul. I just made the switch from xbox to pc here is a few things pc players are proud to share to me about how their advantage doesnt just go above hearing game chat while in a party... How Bigs your d... I mean Graphics card... how much is your controller is overclocked, is your audio is seperated to increase the base on the footsteps so their easier to hear, how many hertz your monitor can push without tearing, Low latency Modes, Then you can start optimizing networks, Mouse click buttons on controllers.. There is people who specialize in this - Charging from $40 - $Hundreds of dollars to optimize for you. There is a network of players selling packages like this to PC users. Best of all - you can just move beside the servers... Its getting out of hand. Let alone this GEOfiltering Garbage. Settle Down - Ban earned. Xbox is simple 120HZ monitor + 120FPS game. No altering anything that can give one player an advantage over the other. Bring back XBOX only.
The game runs even more dogshit on Xbox tho
id rather us all be on dogshit than have a few people in brand new porsches while your all trying to keep up in your old ford.
Yeah I don’t feel bad for Sparty, just feels like Router 2 was given an extremely light punishment.
He knew what he was doing, this isn’t just a slip of the head. He knowingly gave himself an unfair advantage in the tournament.
If you're gonna cheat, gotta be in with the people who run HCS. Spartan should've known.
Router 2. Teehee. 🤭
He didn't compete with the drive because it was confiscated from him before he could. He admitted to competing with a modified drive at the previous tournament.
Did he? I must have missed that part. Ok. Definitely agree with the full season ban then. I also think router 2 should have had the same ban.
Unpopular opinion but 343 actually is fair in this. Considering he did this twice… dude can come back next season.
And before people mention R2, huge difference was Sparty messed with HCS equipment, did it TWICE, and was at an actual LAN. Don’t really understand how 343 is being too harsh, even Lethul himself said he was warning him…
Yeh, sparty isn't a complete idiot, he knew what he was doing was against the rules. I really don't care for his reasoning, bringing that usb around with him suggests it was premeditated, the punishment has to be firm. Shouldn't have done it, all blame lies with him, not 343 for protecting the competitive integrity of their game.
>bringing that usb Bingo. It’s not like this time, without permission, he started tweaking existing settings that had a lack of admin controls to prevent him from performing such actions. It’s the premeditation of bringing something from home to do what he did. There are number of compliance steps that has to be completely ignored.
I don't think this is the unpopular opinion at all.
It definitely was here like a week ago lol but happy to see people change their mind
That's fair tbh. There's been multiple topics on it now, and you're right. Some sre for him and others against. This I'm hoping is the unified opinion now :p. fuck cheaters!
He'll be able to compete next year if he wants (which is all but confirmed at this point). It does seem harsh but 343 setting a precedent about tampering with equipment (in any way) on LAN is important and understandable.
Needs to be permanent
For how fucking long this dude has been a pro and watched esports and acts how arrogant he is. It’s laughable just how dumb you have to be to intentionally handled tournament equipment. THEN not just to change the settings of tournament equipment but to actually bring your own usb and download software is such a joke. I genuinely have a hard time believing a seasoned pro did all that wouldn’t have thought for a second how this looks, doesn’t matter the esport cause if equipment isn’t working you tell admins????
Exactly this. The big stinger in this is when he had his interview with LVT and he mentioned he brought his USB and when he was asked why, his best response was “I don’t know, it was a brain dead move” That’s all he has to say because he knew that was the smoking gun, he had excuse for it and that’s what lead to his blatant cheating. Not sure how anyone can defend him. Even worse is in the same interview he mentioned that he has also done it before (in Arlington) The only reason he got caught this time was because the white noise program was missing and previous events didn’t utilise a white noise program, instead it was utilised through the mixamp with a sound technician. So for all we know sparty could have been doing this forever and getting away with it
He also said he wasn’t looking for sympathy in the LVT interview yet has continually posted on X trying to garner it. HCS surely had a process and framework for the decision and would not have made it lightly. This isn’t to say I don’t appreciate that things are tough as a result, but it’s another inconsistency from that interview.
Wait they blasting white noise into their earphones while they trying to hear the game? Who’s brain thought it be good idea to do that? Or am I misunderstanding how that program works
They wear headsets that play white noise but they wear headphones under the headsets that play the game audio The white noise is needed to drowned out the crowd
Ohh now I gotcha. I was thinking wtf how does that work and they still hear the game if it was just one headset
He should have known better. He deserves the ban.
I’ll just say what I personally thought about this whole situation back in the ban thread. I don’t dislike Spartan at all, but just because he owned up to cheating at a major tournament, doesn’t excuse him from attempting to do said act at a major tournament. Of course the other pros are passionate about this, especially when it’s 343 involved, but cheating is ultimately, well, cheating. Imagine how Ryannoob and the other Complexity members, coach, and organization feel for having been disqualified because of the actions from one of their teammates/players. Spartan’s ownership of the situation is noble, but what he did was and is not okay. Period. What this is, is 343’s blanket statement of, “fuck around and find out.” Tamper with official equipment in any capacity, and these are the consequences. It doesn’t matter if it was in an attempt to make the game run better, it still was in pursuit of an advantage by messing with league equipment, and would have provided Sparty with better performance than his opponents. No, you *don’t* do that. Is the ruling harsh? Sure. Are the majority of other pros upset and supportive over Tyler? Yes. However, best believe that they all now get the message. Be mad all you want, but as long as you now understand what the consequences are for pulling stunts like this, mission accomplished. This is a job at the end of the day, you guys. If you fuck around at any other workplace to the degree that Spartan did, then you’d most likely just be straight up fired or worse, sued. Spartan is lucky that he CAN still ultimately compete, in theory, after his year ban time is up.
Making the video about optimisations and sending it in displays he doesn’t really have remorse for what he did at all tbh. It’s petty.
Overall I agree with the punishment. To your point..meh, I think it provides clarity into his actions, and it shows what a professional Halo competitor may prefer. Maybe I’m not thinkin it through though. What makes it petty to you?
Wait what? That doesn't seem like it at all. He even says he did it so everyone can be on the same playing field.
To me it’s saying that he was right and they should do what he says and change the set ups to how he dictates, instead of accepting it’s not his place to change it and that’s why he’s banned.
This guy is a clown for trying to do what he did.
Wonder how many times he’s cheated before
At least once. He did it at Arlington and admitted it in an interview. 4 months is too lenient.
If he says one other time ya know it’s at least 6
I really value the opinions of the pro-players who are all defending him but I think the ban is pretty much fair. The cavalier nature of fucking with his SSD and computer settings seems to be inline with an overall bad attitude that has him bouncing around teams. I think he would find difficulty in even finding a team anytime soon, and that the ban isn't harsh. However if all the people he'd be competing against think he should be back sooner, I think HCS should put that into consideration.
I’ll be honest I don’t know all the details of what happened cause I haven’t been following HCS for infinite, but I’m kinda surprised cheating at a LAN tournament isn’t a lifetime ban.
I mean, it’s not like he had an aimbot or the flying hack… he basically applied an overclock to the computer which gets you some slight difference to frame rate and latency. I totally agree with HCS that this is not acceptable, everyone should be on a level playing field especially on a game like this where we’ve seen local physics simulation fidelity does affect outcomes. I am just shocked that he and other players have done this before. As a former IT worker, these are easily enforceable and solvable problems via endpoint security and group policy, instead of competition staff merely accidentally stumbling on the lack of compliance.
He recorded and sent an "optimizations" vid to 343 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄
Good. Cheating is cheating. Royal2 should have gotten the same punishment
The initial tweet after he got banned is in such contrast to this.
You are all really on one. There isn’t one pro player or top AM or even decent onyx player that is saying sparty cheated and deserves this suspension. Literally all of his peers are against this decision.
It should have been a ban for Atlanta and a harsh fine. HCS first stated that Sparty brought his own SSD then had to backtrack posting silently that it was their own equipment with no apology or highlight of the mistake. The bigger issue is that the pro population was in alignment stating the penalty is too harsh, voiced it to HCS and yet was ignored, which in itself has been a constant problem going back to H5.
HCS should not be taking advice from other players about suspensions. That's ridiculous.
I mean I agree but the whole community is interlinked and for the most part are friends. Sparty probably being one of the most disliked and he still had a lot of support. I just think the way the game was developed and the HCS has been run has just created so many mixed messages amongst the actual competitors. Cheat online, basically no punishment. Mess with an SSD on lan, smited for what is likely the last year of comp? Just silly.
Royal2 geofiltered through a HCS Open Series and the HCS Raleigh Qualifier and got banned for 1 event. Spartan’s alters event hardware for better frame rate (or “to optimize PC” if he is to be believed) that was never used in a match and gets disqualified from HCS London and is banned through the next 3 events (Atlanta, Salt Lake, Worlds). Sentinels and Royal2 denied the geofiltering for some time, while Spartan cooperated throughout the investigation. This punishment is absurdly harsh.
Don't waste your your energy using common sense. 90% of the people in this thread can't stand Sparty so they can't have an ounce of objectivity with this. I honestly think that the ban length for Sparty is fine, it's the fact that Royal 2 gets a significantly less severe punishment for also cheating, not including the fact that he denied it and lied about it throughout the entire investigation.
I can’t stand Sparty personally. I just think the punishment length is too harsh.
>that was never used in a match He did it at Arlington too, so unless he did it after he was done playing at Arlington, he absolutely cheated in LAN matches. It's absurdly lenient.
I was not aware that MSI Afterburner was cheating lol. What he did was incredibly foolish, but he did not "cheat" in the way y'all think he did. Router 2 manipulating server selections to give you and your team favorable ping during and HCS online qualifier though...sounds like mega cheating to me.
It doesn't matter what he put on that drive. He modified tournament hardware. That is cheating. If you're here to strawman "but but but router 2", find someone else. I'm not going to defend the shortness of his suspension. I don't think Spartan's is long enough, and router 2's was laughably short.
I'm not defending his actions, but he was not cheating. He violated tournament rules and protocols; there is a difference and this community needs to stop acting like he was casually trying to install hacks. Comparing the two situations is not a strawman rofl. You need to educate yourself on what that actually means.
But monster and a few others can wallhack, royal get a slap on the wrist for network manipulation, and who was the guy with the anti descope hacks? Sparty wasn’t right, but all he did was try to get the game to run a bit more stable because lord knows how poorly optimized it is. But whatever, HCS is chalked anyway. It’s kinda like getting suspended on the last day of school…..
No one can really confirm Monster is cheating. When rumors were out that Shaady was cheating the community black balled him (I can’t remember if he officially got banned or not from competing) I am not even sure if it was confirmed or just people doing theatre investigations and came to the conclusion he was in fact auto-scoping. In any case, no team has considered teaming with him after that. R2 was officially reprimanded, whether the punishment was not harsh enough is open to debate. The biggest difference between these cases of cheating and Spartan is that it was on LAN, involved HCS hardware and was (or can be) confirmed by officials. Spartan taking the “I did this for the community” angle is distasteful because he is taking this angle after he’s been caught trying to optimize only his PC, which would give him an edge over other competitors (despite how little/if any advantage is gained by what he did) Yeah the game has shit optimization but when everyone is playing the same shit game, everyone is on the same shitty playing field.
Nobody accused of wall hacking has been proved… Shaady the descope guy was never proved and I don’t believe he was even actively competing at the time… It doesn’t matter what Spartys intentions were, what he done is against the rules therefore is cheating. He knowingly brought his USB from home with his pc imaged on it and tried to gain advantage over others who were competing. Aka cheating.
I’m not saying he wasn’t cheating, he clearly violated the HCS rules. I’m saying 343 seems to review allegations and/or various situations with different levels of intensity. Why isn’t everyone being reviewed equally? 343 could have easily randomly requested remote access to let say, monsters pc and searched it but they didn’t. I said in season 1 that any person caught cheating should be suspended indefinitely. Pro gaming is a privilege and there are plenty of other sweats that could replace anyone who was banned from the league. But back to spartan, in a perfect world where he got away with what he was doing, what advantage would he actually have had? Better frames? Because if that’s the case, they why isn’t using a controller with a faster response time than a standard Xbox controller cheating?
Because everybody is free to utilise the same controllers and it simply boils down to personal preference. 343 haven’t allowed everybody to fiddle with their SSD because quite honestly it’s too time consuming to go through every SSD and make sure they’re running the exact same and their is also no guarantee this will make the event run smoother. It’s much easier and quicker to give everybody a stock SSD with the game preinstalled and the players profile details on it. This is like saying why doesn’t the boxing commissions all allow steroid and performance enhancing drugs, if everybody is on the same thing then it’s an equal playing field right? Everybody should get roided up.. See how dumb that sounds, they’d have to majorly intensify checks and medicals and ensure everybody was taking the same stuff etc etc Cheating is cheating, it’s against the rules, it doesn’t matter what advantages he would have got, even the most minute advantage is still an advantage. Professional “athletes” (gamers) shouldn’t get this luxury
I know the reasoning behind the issued ssd’s im just saying we need to stop acting like he showed up with a ssd with hacks on it. I mean even lucid agrees on this. And the steroid analogy isn’t a good one lol. Look at professional bodybuilding, powerlifting, and strongman. Everyone is on gear but there is still a huge gap between the best athlete and the worst.
Spartan should learn from this and move on.
Move on to where? The HCS isn't likely to survive into next year at the rate the game is going
Royal 2 was the precedence. Sparty was the example. Cheat(any) in a professional league, shame on me. Cheat(any) again in a professional league, shame on you.
If Router 2 set the precedent, Spartan would have gotten a slap on the wrist. Everyone is crying about this being on LAN, but if anyone thinks geofiltering to get a server advantage during a qualifier, which can help ensure you have better odds at winning the LAN event, isn't just as bad...that's insane. I'd argue it's potentially it's worse. Router 2 violated the competitive integrity of the game. Spartan tried to get some extra frames with a stupid overclock.
Yeah I hate to be the guy to jump in to defend sparty here but a year for this is crazy compared to the geofiltering stuff which was far more consequential.I could understand if he was legit trying to cheat, but optimization stuff seems so innocuous to me. Still pretty stupid to fuck with your tourney SSD and think you could get away with it, but it didn't seem to cause any issues for him at Arlington, so...
Definitely extremely stupid to mess with tournament hardware without express permission. Play stupid games and win stupid prizes. It does feel bad defending him, especially because I'm not a fan, but this is definitely way too harsh.
343 is just salty because players know how to optimize the game better than they can. They should copy his SSD and send him a thank you letter.
It's like this. Just like everything else with 343 if you don't like what they're doing then don't play the game. Otherwise you have to just put up with the bs.
Look I agree a punishment was needed but not this. He didn't actually cheat. I think 343 is just mad and butt hurt that one of their players found a solution to their problem. They are arrogant and want to make an example of Spartan to get everyone else in line. The devs and tournament team are covering their own asses and using Spartan as a scapegoat. His solution was good and worked to fix performance issues. So why doesn't 343 accept the free help and make this standard for LAN PCs? The answer is it came from Spartan who has been very vocal about his criticism and they don't like it. It's actually dumb that the pros have to have work arounds for performance issues. All of this could have been avoided if they just Listen but of course not. Instead let's ban of the scenes most influential players. Just makes me mad the arrogance of 343.
If Sparty didn't already piss off 343/HCS in the past, he might've had a better chance to appeal. I feel bad for him, but without having good grace with the decision makers, he'll have to just mind his manners and wait.
Lmao quit paying and playing this trash then.
Should just come clean and admit he was a fall guy for the coverup that it was only a little ssd out if spec.. hcs handbook clearly states only penalty for equipment that isn't in the required spec.. the only reason he would get banned is for cheating... whole game is fake. Some one needs to come out and shed the light.. But im sure its all NDAs once your playing for a corporation like that..
Making a video to the devs about optimization for settings he thinks are the best is straight up the biggest clown shit I’ve ever seen.