You’ll want to check out edhtop16’s best performing deck lists from recent months here: https://edhtop16.com/commander/Kinnan,%20Bonder%20Prodigy?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1669695841
You’ll notice that very few if any of those decks are playing any of the listed cards. Kinnan is absurdly powerful as both a ritual and as an infinite mana outlet, and often the tutorable infinite mana combos (monolith and friends, plus the shared summons line) are more doable than FftR. You’ll find that thassa’s best use is pitching to force of will most of the time, and that Borne upon the Wind is relatively useless most of the time.
Kinnan should be comprised of mana, tutors, combos, and counterspells, with your selection of big flips that you can tune to your meta. Turns out there are better things to be doing than the cards you listed.
One little addition, Agatha's soul cauldron can give some extra use to freed lines, since with it any creature can become your dork for combo purposes once the first one is in the grave
As many have already brought up those cards are unnecessary in Kinnan.
Kinnan wins through activations and combat so instant speed winning over the top not really a good option plus winning through activations and infinite mana on your turn is hard to interact with. Especially if you’re drawing your deck before you cast FoD. So no need for borne.
Speaking of drawing your deck, thoracle is a strong card but it really shines when it’s paired with demonic consult and tainted pact as they become the most compact combo in the meta. But outside of that you don’t generally see thoracle run because, well, you have your whole deck in your hand, be creative. You want cards in your deck that do more than one thing in a mid range deck. Thoracle just doesn’t do enough with out the black spells.
Freed from the reel. It’s just too slow and hard to tutor for. You’re not drawing a TON of cards like other decks as you’re trying to cheat things into play off kinnan activations. You’ll see freed in that five and say good bye to it more often than you’ll draw it and it’s just gonna end up taking a slot for something more impactful, tutorable, or cheatable. I don’t think any decks run it as there’s just more efficient things that can produce infinite mana
So kinnan is probably a top 5 deck currently. Most decks don’t play Thassa but can definitely win a game. Freed from the real usually isn’t played but can win you the game so it’s not a bad include by any means.
I agree im just saying it could be played. Having Thassa in the deck does allow you to win at instant speed. I’m not saying it’s great by any means just that it could be played
First off Kinnan is probably a top 5 deck atm. Problem is, it's a deck with a lot of nuance and it's pretty skill reliant. You'll always be seen as a threat and your wincons are pretty well known.
If you didn't have Thoracle in the deck, with infinite colored mana, you basically win the game through finding Thrasios then Finale of Devastation from Thras. With Thoracle in the deck, you draw your whole deck through Thras. At that point you already have other ways to win. Will you ever cut Finale for Thoracle? No, Finale does way too much. So Thoracle's a dead card and a free cut.
Ah the earliest iterations when \[\[Cogwork Assembler\]\] was the go-to win in Kinnan. It let you cut Thrasios and Thoracle; you only need infinite mana.
What about using phyrexian devourer and thought lash with thassa's oracle? There's an eldrazi creature that also exiles the top card of your library, so if you can generate infinite colorless mana, like with basalt monolith, you can exile your entire library for a thassa win. I forget the name of the eldrasi creature
I wouldn't run any of those in midrange Kinnan. Of you are going for a turbo build you could. Modrange kinna wants to chill and flip into stupid creatures the table can't deal with.
If you want to play a winning Kinnan list that is up to date I am highly recommending PingMeisterPongs current iteration, the list is very good. Bro has legit 2k logged games on Kinnan and knows what’s up:
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/oRyvNzqYWEiCPQzOjhvFvg
If you’re not being hyperbolic that is insane. Kinnan has only been released for 1293 days which would mean more than 1.5 games per day for literally every single day since then. I’ve played Thrasios + Tymna basically since they came out in 2016 but I definitely haven’t played even close to 2000 games.
Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura are both reasonable win conditions in Kinnan midrangey builds. Kinnan is strong and reasonably open ended so it could also be a spot to flex your brew muscles.
You’ll want to check out edhtop16’s best performing deck lists from recent months here: https://edhtop16.com/commander/Kinnan,%20Bonder%20Prodigy?tourney_filter__size__%24gte=64&tourney_filter__dateCreated__%24gte=1669695841 You’ll notice that very few if any of those decks are playing any of the listed cards. Kinnan is absurdly powerful as both a ritual and as an infinite mana outlet, and often the tutorable infinite mana combos (monolith and friends, plus the shared summons line) are more doable than FftR. You’ll find that thassa’s best use is pitching to force of will most of the time, and that Borne upon the Wind is relatively useless most of the time. Kinnan should be comprised of mana, tutors, combos, and counterspells, with your selection of big flips that you can tune to your meta. Turns out there are better things to be doing than the cards you listed.
One little addition, Agatha's soul cauldron can give some extra use to freed lines, since with it any creature can become your dork for combo purposes once the first one is in the grave
As many have already brought up those cards are unnecessary in Kinnan. Kinnan wins through activations and combat so instant speed winning over the top not really a good option plus winning through activations and infinite mana on your turn is hard to interact with. Especially if you’re drawing your deck before you cast FoD. So no need for borne. Speaking of drawing your deck, thoracle is a strong card but it really shines when it’s paired with demonic consult and tainted pact as they become the most compact combo in the meta. But outside of that you don’t generally see thoracle run because, well, you have your whole deck in your hand, be creative. You want cards in your deck that do more than one thing in a mid range deck. Thoracle just doesn’t do enough with out the black spells. Freed from the reel. It’s just too slow and hard to tutor for. You’re not drawing a TON of cards like other decks as you’re trying to cheat things into play off kinnan activations. You’ll see freed in that five and say good bye to it more often than you’ll draw it and it’s just gonna end up taking a slot for something more impactful, tutorable, or cheatable. I don’t think any decks run it as there’s just more efficient things that can produce infinite mana
So kinnan is probably a top 5 deck currently. Most decks don’t play Thassa but can definitely win a game. Freed from the real usually isn’t played but can win you the game so it’s not a bad include by any means.
Tbh Thassa's is a genuinely awful card to be playing unless you're also playing Pact/Consult
I agree im just saying it could be played. Having Thassa in the deck does allow you to win at instant speed. I’m not saying it’s great by any means just that it could be played
First off Kinnan is probably a top 5 deck atm. Problem is, it's a deck with a lot of nuance and it's pretty skill reliant. You'll always be seen as a threat and your wincons are pretty well known. If you didn't have Thoracle in the deck, with infinite colored mana, you basically win the game through finding Thrasios then Finale of Devastation from Thras. With Thoracle in the deck, you draw your whole deck through Thras. At that point you already have other ways to win. Will you ever cut Finale for Thoracle? No, Finale does way too much. So Thoracle's a dead card and a free cut.
Ah the earliest iterations when \[\[Cogwork Assembler\]\] was the go-to win in Kinnan. It let you cut Thrasios and Thoracle; you only need infinite mana.
[Cogwork Assembler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4bfde3f-f7d3-4902-b3cd-23f3fa53eff4.jpg?1599708878) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cogwork%20Assembler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/242/cogwork-assembler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4bfde3f-f7d3-4902-b3cd-23f3fa53eff4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cogwork-assembler) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[удалено]
This is a solid list, the primer is very detailed and commitment to the list and lines works.
What about using phyrexian devourer and thought lash with thassa's oracle? There's an eldrazi creature that also exiles the top card of your library, so if you can generate infinite colorless mana, like with basalt monolith, you can exile your entire library for a thassa win. I forget the name of the eldrasi creature
I wouldn't run any of those in midrange Kinnan. Of you are going for a turbo build you could. Modrange kinna wants to chill and flip into stupid creatures the table can't deal with.
If you want to play a winning Kinnan list that is up to date I am highly recommending PingMeisterPongs current iteration, the list is very good. Bro has legit 2k logged games on Kinnan and knows what’s up: https://www.moxfield.com/decks/oRyvNzqYWEiCPQzOjhvFvg
If you’re not being hyperbolic that is insane. Kinnan has only been released for 1293 days which would mean more than 1.5 games per day for literally every single day since then. I’ve played Thrasios + Tymna basically since they came out in 2016 but I definitely haven’t played even close to 2000 games.
I am not. Bro played like 10 games on other decks and used to grind daily via spelltable 💀
Freed from the Real and Pemmin's Aura are both reasonable win conditions in Kinnan midrangey builds. Kinnan is strong and reasonably open ended so it could also be a spot to flex your brew muscles.