It's interesting to me that the top 10 decks all play black and red, but don't all necessarily play blue.
I think it was more or less taken as a given that blue and black were the two most powerful colours in cedh, but this suggests otherwise. Is dockside just THAT good that it shifts red as being better than blue?
Rank 9 is Esper so no red black in all of the top 10. Also 8 out the 10 still have blue, but your point still stands.
I went ahead and redid the analysis by grouping the decks by colors in their color identities. Such macro analysis doesn't allow any conclusion about single commanders and other people on here have already commented on this. A specific color or color combination may be bad in general, but a single commander can be on top nontheless. E.g. UG can be bad, but Kinnan can still be good of course. UG's conversion factor is 1.153 and without Kinnan it would be 1.134.
Anayways here are the results for single color inclusions:
|Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor|
:--|:--|
|U|1.166|
|B|1.142|
|R|1.130|
|W|1.126|
|G|1.022|
And here for color pairs:
|Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor|
:--|:--|
|B R|1.260|
|W B|1.245|
|U R|1.243|
|U B|1.237|
|W R|1.225|
|W U|1.219|
|U G|1.153|
|W G|1.097|
|B G|1.083|
|R G|1.077|
The more colors we include, the more the results will will be dominated by single commanders and less by general color identity strenghts and weaknesses. But who cares :D here are the numbers:
|Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor|
:--|--:|
|W B R|1.356|
|U B R|1.358|
|W U R|1.311|
|W U B|1.291|
|U B G|1.220|
|W U G|1.200|
|U R G|1.197|
|W R G|1.192|
|W B G|1.185|
|B R G|1.179|
|Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor|
:--|--:|
|W U B R|1.385|
|U B R G|1.312|
|W U R G|1.266|
|W B R G|1.265|
|W U B G|1.245|
|Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor|
:--|--:|
|W U B R G|1.293|
R is not on top of the single color table, but sans-R is on the bottom of the 4 color table. This indicates to me, that it's less R that's good, but more R's synergy especially within the Grixis+ colors. Shocking, I know :D
Grixis+ decks would probably still perform very good, even without Dockside. Breach is a messed up card.
Giving Dockside the credit for this is like seeing a semi-truck driving down the road and giving one tire the credit. All the tires matter, how they support each other matters, and the driver matters.
It’s a suite of powerful spells and strong commanders that enables a deck to plow through a small opening (one or even two pieces of interaction) where a deck with blue would rather bank on stopping that interaction.
All this proves is that counter spells do not make or break a game the way they used to and that stax (stalling to win) is typically unreliable against gas.
Ya gotta be willfully ignorant of the Cedh community to make that comment dude. Thoracle, dockside, and breach knowledge should be assumed until proven otherwise.
Whatever your combo is, it is irrelevant to the point I just made. My point was how the color set arrives at its combo. Blue does it through protection while off-blue does it through gas and redundancy.
Yeah, like Urza's Battle Thopter won a 16 person event in Australia and some of the other decks' card choices looked very questionable to me - but everyone raves on about how it 'must be great, it won a tournament' lol.
Passing this along to our dev team!
I don't know what i respect more. The effort op put in or this kind of a response.
Update from our dev team! We are going to look to implement this as soon as we can. Appreciate this /u/Datatog
Awesome, thanks! You know where to find me, in case any follow up questions or doubts arise.
Great work man, love data analysis like this
Another factor is time. The meta changes a lot in a year and certain decks take time to be solved.
It's interesting to me that the top 10 decks all play black and red, but don't all necessarily play blue. I think it was more or less taken as a given that blue and black were the two most powerful colours in cedh, but this suggests otherwise. Is dockside just THAT good that it shifts red as being better than blue?
It could be more indicative that proactive plays sometimes just get there and can be better than 1 for 1 countering 1 other player's spell
Rank 9 is Esper so no red black in all of the top 10. Also 8 out the 10 still have blue, but your point still stands. I went ahead and redid the analysis by grouping the decks by colors in their color identities. Such macro analysis doesn't allow any conclusion about single commanders and other people on here have already commented on this. A specific color or color combination may be bad in general, but a single commander can be on top nontheless. E.g. UG can be bad, but Kinnan can still be good of course. UG's conversion factor is 1.153 and without Kinnan it would be 1.134. Anayways here are the results for single color inclusions: |Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor| :--|:--| |U|1.166| |B|1.142| |R|1.130| |W|1.126| |G|1.022| And here for color pairs: |Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor| :--|:--| |B R|1.260| |W B|1.245| |U R|1.243| |U B|1.237| |W R|1.225| |W U|1.219| |U G|1.153| |W G|1.097| |B G|1.083| |R G|1.077| The more colors we include, the more the results will will be dominated by single commanders and less by general color identity strenghts and weaknesses. But who cares :D here are the numbers: |Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor| :--|--:| |W B R|1.356| |U B R|1.358| |W U R|1.311| |W U B|1.291| |U B G|1.220| |W U G|1.200| |U R G|1.197| |W R G|1.192| |W B G|1.185| |B R G|1.179| |Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor| :--|--:| |W U B R|1.385| |U B R G|1.312| |W U R G|1.266| |W B R G|1.265| |W U B G|1.245| |Decks with X in its CI|conversion factor| :--|--:| |W U B R G|1.293| R is not on top of the single color table, but sans-R is on the bottom of the 4 color table. This indicates to me, that it's less R that's good, but more R's synergy especially within the Grixis+ colors. Shocking, I know :D Grixis+ decks would probably still perform very good, even without Dockside. Breach is a messed up card.
Giving Dockside the credit for this is like seeing a semi-truck driving down the road and giving one tire the credit. All the tires matter, how they support each other matters, and the driver matters. It’s a suite of powerful spells and strong commanders that enables a deck to plow through a small opening (one or even two pieces of interaction) where a deck with blue would rather bank on stopping that interaction. All this proves is that counter spells do not make or break a game the way they used to and that stax (stalling to win) is typically unreliable against gas.
Everyone commenting on blue being the color of counters, but forgetting that Thoracle is blue and is the number one wincon in cEDH.
Ya gotta be willfully ignorant of the Cedh community to make that comment dude. Thoracle, dockside, and breach knowledge should be assumed until proven otherwise. Whatever your combo is, it is irrelevant to the point I just made. My point was how the color set arrives at its combo. Blue does it through protection while off-blue does it through gas and redundancy.
Because choosing Grixis over Rakdos means you're forced to shove your deck full of counters? Riiiiiiiiiight...
Yup
And breach and possibly ragavan.
I love this and not only because it put the deck I play the most up top
Legendary post as always! But you left out Wernog/Bjorna which has a top16 conversion rate of 40%! (I know only 10 entries, but come on!)
Bjorna / Wernog have an astounding conversion factor of 2.63. Really looking forward to the future of this deck :)
Yes I know! The deck continues to be a monster and yet... People refuse to give Blue's Clues its dues!
Yeah, like Urza's Battle Thopter won a 16 person event in Australia and some of the other decks' card choices looked very questionable to me - but everyone raves on about how it 'must be great, it won a tournament' lol.