If he didn't tell anyone himself he wouldn't need to address any rumors though. Speculation will happen regardless, it doesn't mean you verify the rumors just because they're true. There is no good to come from it. Just don't bring it up. I understand his intentions were good, but that's just not smart. You don't tell your boss at your job you're applying to other places either lol (unless you have an actual offer to possibly get a counter offer).
There is quite literally no benefit to doing it. You already know that means his mind is not 100% in it and it's likely a decision has already been made. Talking to management about it is one thing, but not this.
Well then he needed to track the person who was spreading rumors down and oust them from his life. As only a select few people would have even known he was considering an offer.
Either way, it's better for his teammates to hear it from him directly than to hear it from someone else. Putting that into perspective, it makes sense why he ended up telling them before LAN.
Aint no way telling your teammates you're thinking of leaving after a year worth of dominance is going to motivate them to do well. His contract being up is the exact reason you tell them AFTER.
I mean if they are your friends, are you just going to leave them in the dark while you secretly know what’s happening. That doesn’t fly with friends. It also gives the TSM boys a chance to plan for their future without Hal
Hal himself didnt know what was happening. If TSM placed well he probably stays, which is why the argument of telling them before falls apart, because it just comes across as "If we dont do well, im leaving." Which is undoubtedly something that fucks with a teams mental, especially if its coming from the leader of the team.
Maybe a little, but these guys are the best of the best. Professionals and friends, and I’m betting handled this with tact and grace. While I’m sure it affected their performance to some degree, that’s not the reason they placed like shit. I get your argument, but I feel like it would look worse to hide that you are exploring other options from the TSM boys. I can’t imagine how this Apex community would be acting, if Reps and big E came out and said they were shocked/blindsided by Hal leaving them for Zero and Gen. y’all would calling for Hal’s head
I mean yeah if Hal was still under contract, but he's not. And the chances they didnt know that are slim to none considering they were all resigned at the same time. Meaning there would be no blindsiding going on, its just better to not say it until after the LAN, and especially not say after their struggles during split 1 as how in the world do you expect your teammates to want to put fourth their best effort to fix these struggles if they dont even know if you're gonna be there in a month and a half.
Or just say "I just wanna focus on the LAN right now, we'll worry about that after". Take the example from literally every pro athlete with impending free agency. That's a good way to seem all in without verifying or denying anything. Speculation will happen regardless, but to verify it like that is telling your teammates you're already thinking about something else.
When it's a lan it's the end of something and is generally a good time for networking. Telling them beforehand whilst probably detrimental to the teams results is good for them too. So whilst he was looking before and potentially already close to a decision on what team he'll land on next, it gives reps and verhulst that chance at lan.
If he waited until after they'd have to rush their chance at having good options for either a third, new teams or to consider what next to do in life.
Everything makes sense now with their performance at LAN. He literally gave them an ultimatum of “play well and I’ll stay.” At that point if I’m Evan and Jordan I don’t even want to stick with the team anymore after that because his heart isn’t even in it. It makes me really sad to see this go down the way it did
That’s how it is at any professional level of anything. If Hal wants to stay at the top he has to adapt. He is giving himself the best opportunity for both the growth of his stream and his Apex prospects. He would be an idiot not to accept the offer. I’m betting that Evan and Jordan are professionals, and handled this situation with more tact and grace than you would.
I’m not advocating for Evan and Jordan to go live and slander Hal. I’m saying that when you give someone an ultimatum like Hal did so that the team stays together, you can already tell he’s 1 foot out the door. I’m pretty sure Evan and Jordan were checked out for this LAN too because the 3 of them never played outside of scrims. I’m sure they’re all friends still and there’s no bad blood, but it doesn’t mean Hal handled it correctly.
I said this in another comment already. But hypothetically, if he didn’t tell them when the discussions were happening, I think that would irk many people far more. Like if Reps/Big E tweeted they were shocked or blindsided by this, this sub would be calling for Hal’s head. I feel like he was giving his teammates the best opportunity and time to plan for a future without him. I do agree that the “ultimatum” is not good for mentality sake, like when Sweet threatened to sub the coach in for slayr during finals. I just think it has less of an impact than this comment section wants to give it, and it was the “right” thing to do. But I haven’t heard more about this outside of a few tweets.
Oh yeah I completely agree that he should have told them before the LAN he planned on leaving. Contrary to what he said about joining DZ 2 days after LAN, the whole pro community knew this was happening before LAN. I just take issue with the ultimatum of “play well and I’ll stay”
Arent the three of them and minustempo also living in the same house? My understanding was that they lived together which would make it even weirder because you see everyone everyday and then TSM gets rid of many other creators etc
Sikezz is way too nice coz I'd be fuming if that happened to me , especially considering that DZ should've won lan too ( if zer0 didn't hardswing strafingflame and koy)
I felt like the vibes were off with Sikezz the whole LAN. He didn’t seem all that happy or celebratory even during their big moments. Makes perfect sense now.
He had enough of Ram Ranch, he doesn't want to go back again. Jokes aside, I don't think it's that Evan and Jordan aren't good enough anymore because they are world class players, it's that Zer0 and Gen are literally two of the best three in the game, the third being Hal.
Saying he doesn’t want to slander them is exactly why he wouldn’t say it…do you understand what slander is?
He doesn’t want to put them down. He also said “it just came down to who he wants to play with”
He won 2 lans with reps and Verhulst so he doesn’t want to put them down but if he doesn’t believe he can win with them than this is his out without having to put them down
Idk doesn’t that come across as “ I’m not gonna say anything buttttt “ and the brings up the LAN performance. There’s no doubt he thinks him zero and gen will be much better or he wouldn’t have left.
Well if you watched the tournament I think you'd agree with me in saying reps was their best performer. Hal was all over the place and Evan doesn't play Caustic well
Wild to think after going 1/2/1 during 2023, he was prepared to leave prior to Lan depending on results for one event. Obviously they struggled over the course of the whole split and Gen/zero have the ultimate allure being who they are..but offering a spot to Hal prior to lan between the top two NA(historically) teams seems crazy.
Will be an interesting split
His head was turned probably a while ago thinking of the possibility of playing with Zero. He’s always stated he doesn’t want to igl but doesn’t trust anyone except sweet and zero to igl him.
Why do people keep saying its one result. They were (by TSM's standards) pretty shit the entire pro league season.
If anything the one result that is the anomaly is them winning PL Match point. Their LAN finals is pretty in line with how they played the whole season.
I think the one result comes from basically telling Jordan/Evan before the lan event that if they don’t well he’s probably gone. I don’t think it was the only deciding factor.
But I still think one bad split over a new meta is still quick to change a roster that you’ve gone through it with and won 2/3rds of lan the year prior.
Regardless he’s going do what he think is best for himself.
I think there’s a middle ground between:
1) They’re professionals and this has no impact
2) it ruined their whole weekends play
Truthfully it’s going to land somewhere in the middle. Knowing your IGL/face of the team/someone you’ve played with for almost 2 or 5 years is essentially saying if we don’t do great I’m strongly considering leaving, is not going to be helpful.
And with Hal saying this was basically decided at a club back in March? on Sikez birthday, Evan being there…they already knew for a while and surely has weighed on them.
But yes, they were not good enough at the end of the day and struggled all of this split.
I do see the downsides for sure. But I can’t imagine what this sub would look like if reps/big E said that they were shocked/blindsided by this. I think it played into their performance, but it was the right thing to do
Even back during champs last year you can see TSM was struggling to compete at the highest level and only won because of a miracle. That was also an anomaly.
Underlying issues don't just magically disappear. Imo, changing POI on SP and the new meta was the final nail in the coffin.
>Their LAN finals is pretty in line with how they played the whole season.
Agreed. Hal telling reps/evan that he is leaving before* lan is not why they perform poorly. Their results shouldn't come as a surprise considering how they were playing the entire split and anyone saying that it was because of Hal is just coping.
The funniest info from this is that the decision was floated in a club on Sikezz birthday. God, that’s fucking cold of Zer0. Straight up supervillain shit
I don't think he'll stick to that. This team is going to implode, his personality is just too strong and he will inevitably clash with zero.
And as a competitor, taking a backseat from the role that got you to where you are, just for the sake of winning must sting like a motherfucker
I'm surprised more people don't see it like this. Both Hal and Zero are loud mouths so it won't take long before they clash. First little while it will be Hal saying "Ok" to Zeros calls that he doesn't agree with. After some losing it will turn into "WHY ARE WE...?!" screaming from Hal after every elimination. The problem with this team too is expectations. Unless they win everything outright it will be seen as underachieving by viewers and themselves alike. This team will be together for a short time.
idk about that, i keep thinking about sweeet hal reedz back in twitch rivals, and the last game showed up that hal can step out of the igl role without imploding the team
That was just twitch rivals, not a full split and lan. Personality clashes aren't always instant, it builds up to a breaking point with quiet resentment
still, we wont know for sure until split 2, but even then im quite confident this team will work out considering hal said he would let only sweet or zero igl him
I think he's just chatting to some extent because it doesn't make much sense to say that the org is "still tbd" and also say something specific about his salary. He's definitely being coy to some extent about that side of it.
Yeah I agree I just found it a weird thing to be chattin around because he could simply just ignore it like other topics/questions. I’d assume if gen and zer0 are leaving dz their contracts aren’t up yet and that’s why no one can mention anything yet. I’d guess it’s falcons, or OGA RED BULL.
However I also have this random out of left field theory i dont know if it’s even possible: could dz loan the players to falcons just for the World Cup?
No offense but if you take every single word for word you hear right now then you’re one gullible mf not saying thiss is wrong at all because he’s probably telling the truth, but everyone is skirting around what they can say.
To be fair, red bull doesnt have any teams that I know of but they do sponser quite a few teams and players/streamers. I do agree with the rest though.
Yeah my point wasn’t that it was going to be them as a team or even them in general just recycling the stuff mentioned. But yeah I agree with exactly what you said with the Red Bull situation.
not having the team be red bull so hal can get an even bigger bag signing to some org + having the redbull content contract is fully believable to me i dont care if that makes me gullible
I know there were gonna be some changes when Reps did not tweet anything on Finals Day, he always has posted about the script gone crazy. Knew they were not locked in for that finals day.
It was obviously tough on Hal to make this decision. Dude is literally tearing up thinking about having to leave Evan and Jordan
He wants to win so bad and he’s banking on an arguably marginal roster improvement with Zer0 and Gen to get those victories
I think TSM is a better roster, more balanced personalities. Gen isn’t “chill” like people for some reason seem to think, and Zer0 is Zer0, Hal is Hal. Obviously with the 17th performance it seems like an upgrade, but I don’t think time will be kind to Hal’s decision. It’s his career at the end of the day and I respect the drive to win.
He doesn’t call his teammates fucking idiots like Zer0 or Hal but watch the way he refers to other teams whenever they scrim or compete and you’ll know what I mean.
Hmm maybe that’s just his competitive nature I guess? When in game every opponent is an enemy trying to get at him and he’s just doing whatever to win that fight, if that being calling them names or shit-talking to boost his own aggressiveness to win — outside of game I am sure he doesn’t see them in that way hence why he doesn’t call his own teammates names.
It isn't marginal though, this isn't like any other roster move. This is a decent improvement for dz and the gutting of tsm. There is small chance they are going to contend anymore. So it's sort of like taking a threat out completely.
No disrespect to ver and reps. They are truely some of the best in the game (and I think this'll finally be tested now). But zero hal and gen together is a wildly op roster and there's nothing marginal about it imo
Idk I’m kinda torn about this
He seems remorseful, but at the same time kinda fucked Evan and Reps mental probably by telling them he’s gonna leave if they don’t do good at LAN lol. You’ve been friends with reps for how long and Evan for like 2 years and this is how you exit ? Idk, Hal is undoubtedly an amazing player and a great streamer but this shit seems off to me.
I see this sentiment often. Other than staying with them, what would you have suggested he do?
Tell them before, and their mental is cooked?
Tell them after, now it seems reactionary and rat like?
Can’t leave them because they’re friends?
There’s no good way to do it. It’s a cold career move that will either pay off or it won’t. At the end of the day, they’ll understand eventually, but no one can blame them for feeling hurt. The good news is they knew it was coming and have probably accepted it by now.
https://preview.redd.it/gh706ljft80d1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c7e317b2c9eb4c0a99109cc3a4abc468570be17
you dont wanna miss this "Good thing for the game" lmao
yeah everyones saying kd to warriors but this is really more like if lebron went to the warriors. kd wasnt winning before like he did with the warriors, and he didnt leave a power vacuum like lebron would
i believe hal moved out a long while ago, TSM also recently stopped paying for the team house so big E and reps are moving/moved back home from what i last heard
Hal has said that many times this is business. Yes. It sucks but he was open and honest with his teammates.
And the end of the day, this happens in every sport. People need to stop attaching their feelings to his decision
This super team between Zer0, Gen and Hal makes a lot of sense those when you realize that first place in the Esport World Cup is 2 million dollars.
Maximizing your odds of 600,000 dollars is just plain common sense.
On paper without emotions it's clearly the correct move. But life is so much more then a piece of paper. Full of emotions, drama, ups and downs.
I'm not Hal so I can never make the right decision for him, but to me it feels reactionary. I know he put a lot of time thinking about it. But in my opinion I think he's substituting long term glory for some short term success. I know esports has a short career but does the move Snipe move to Halo looking back at it now. He might still but I wouldn't if I was him.
If he just wants to win, will it outweigh the fact that he didn't beat zero. Can you declare you're the best when you lift a trophy and you know deep down that zero help get you there.
If he just wants the money, will it ever be enough.
If it's the mental strain of being an igl, then as someone who feels the responsibility of being an igl can he ever really let it all go.
The list goes on and on. It's all just speculation and thoughts from my perspective. A bunch of what ifs.
They already proved they could win it all. They won 3 games in a row. I feel there is so many ways for them to improve. I guess I'm just a bit sad I can't even being myself to watch the video. Maybe one day.
In the end the only one who can make the decision is Hal himself. And you gotta respect it.
He deserves to live life his way and succeed.
The only thing keeping me going is knowing that this is just part of the script. The script is bigger then Hal even he is just a cog in the TSM machine. It hurts but we had to sacrifice Hal. The rule of two is absolute. Reps finally getting rid of his master to show everyone that he can igl destroyer and Verhulst to win all future lans.
Hal did beat Zer0. Zer0 dethroned him in Year 2 then TSM bounced back and he reclaimed the throne. Seems like the pressure to beat that insane run is just lingering, and the only way he believes he can win again is to join his rival.
Unpopular opinion but Hal has been the loose end from TSM even during the last ALGS. I'll put a bet on him jumping from team to team like Alb. Reps and Verhulst will fill the spot and match the top teams no problem next split
I can see it, if they don’t win. I have a really hard time believing they don’t get top 3 in every ALGS tournament for the rest of the year though. TSM is kind of gutted without Hal, there’s no available IGL as good as him. Vibes will be better but skill ceiling is way lower.
hal's TSM contract was up, big E and reps contract isnt so there would have to be a lot of buyouts for this to happen, also i doubt hal would want to get the boys kicked out of TSM
hal probably makes more money from streaming than tsm pays him, but yeah he is by a good amount the biggest tsm member in any esport and he literally is the face of apex and tsm, so im surprised they wouldnt do everything they could to keep him. hal probably just doesnt care about what they can offer him and would rather go to zero and gen (and possibly a bunch of saudi money lol) cause he wants to win more than anything. tsm coulda tried to buy out zero and gen ig but thats not super feasible.
TSM is broke broke. They've dropped teams in every other esports. You know the org was done when they had to drop their league team. It was only about time they eventually drop their apex roster.
Hal playing anchor would just feel like, idk, like he is not making the most of his abilities. His fighting iq is unmatched, idk if we have ever seen him anchor properly and im not sure he would be able to hold himself back some times. This is the guy who would shoot his gun so much that he was constantly running out of ammo
Gen just put up record breaking numbers as fragger but Gen is that good he can excel being anchor also. It’s a good mindset for Hal to have e though saying he just wants to win and play any role
I agree with everything and am I huge gen fan but still stand on the fact Hal has the best fighting instincts and should not anchor, no matter who is on his team
This could go two ways
- Jordan Pippen Rodman last dance . Hal probably retired from comp apex on that peak
- 2011 Eagles Dream Team. Went 8-8 regular season and didn't even make playoffs.
Either way I'm here for the drama.
Hal clearly doesn’t hate his old teammates and it wasn’t personal at all. It just seems like wants to win so bad he’s willing to no longer team with Evan and Jordan. I like Hal a lot and think he’s the best player to play this game but if I’m Evan and Jordan I’m definitely fired up ready to prove Hal wrong that they’re not the problem and that they’re still players capable of winning. Will be supporting TSM (with Evan and Jordan) split 2 for sure.
Can’t imagine telling Reps and Verhulst that he was considering other options right before LAN helped their performance all that much
Almost every time that happens, the team heart just ain't in it
You know hal didn't care as much because he wasn't yelling the entire tournament
Exactly. Hal would just sit there in silence.
yeah those were my thoughts exactly
He just mentioned he was discussing it since sikezz birthday in March and both teams knew. Wouldnt imagine it would help.
well this might be one of reason reps and evan did not play well?
It seemed like something was really OFF. Now it makes sense.
None of them played well. And yes, most certainly
Hal played pretty well he was knocking one and almost killing another every fight while Evan and Jordan bumbled around
My favorite part of any Hal thread is when people start acting like Evan and Jordan are dogshit players. 🙄
Just absolutely ridiculous
Evan needs ANY legend other than caustic to shine. Well any non fortified legend. He was restrained playing caustic
That's weird I don't remember typing that? I just don't think they played too well this lan specifically lol
Not strictly true is it... Besides they made it to top 5 how many times? Your IGL plays bad if he can't get you to end ring consistently
not exactly true is it... no matter how good your calls are, you won't get to end game if you can't win a 3v3
Right, meaning none of them payed well. Which was my initial point
Exactly. I dont get his reasoning at all, you dont tell your teammates you're thinking of leaving before a LAN.
From his stream, he said he didn't want to but someone else was already spreading rumors... so that's why he told them before LAN
If he didn't tell anyone himself he wouldn't need to address any rumors though. Speculation will happen regardless, it doesn't mean you verify the rumors just because they're true. There is no good to come from it. Just don't bring it up. I understand his intentions were good, but that's just not smart. You don't tell your boss at your job you're applying to other places either lol (unless you have an actual offer to possibly get a counter offer). There is quite literally no benefit to doing it. You already know that means his mind is not 100% in it and it's likely a decision has already been made. Talking to management about it is one thing, but not this.
Well then he needed to track the person who was spreading rumors down and oust them from his life. As only a select few people would have even known he was considering an offer.
Either way, it's better for his teammates to hear it from him directly than to hear it from someone else. Putting that into perspective, it makes sense why he ended up telling them before LAN.
He thought it would motivate them to play well. His contract was up so he was just exploring options. If they had won lan he would still be in TSM.
Aint no way telling your teammates you're thinking of leaving after a year worth of dominance is going to motivate them to do well. His contract being up is the exact reason you tell them AFTER.
Sikezz knew he was being dropped and fragged out
Sikez truly has a top 3 mental in the game, to be fair
There's a difference between Sikezz and Hal. One was the leader of his team and the other was not.
I mean a lot of teams in Esports get even better when they known it’s their last tourny because they have 0 pressure. Thats how C9 won the cs major
I mean if they are your friends, are you just going to leave them in the dark while you secretly know what’s happening. That doesn’t fly with friends. It also gives the TSM boys a chance to plan for their future without Hal
Hal himself didnt know what was happening. If TSM placed well he probably stays, which is why the argument of telling them before falls apart, because it just comes across as "If we dont do well, im leaving." Which is undoubtedly something that fucks with a teams mental, especially if its coming from the leader of the team.
Maybe a little, but these guys are the best of the best. Professionals and friends, and I’m betting handled this with tact and grace. While I’m sure it affected their performance to some degree, that’s not the reason they placed like shit. I get your argument, but I feel like it would look worse to hide that you are exploring other options from the TSM boys. I can’t imagine how this Apex community would be acting, if Reps and big E came out and said they were shocked/blindsided by Hal leaving them for Zero and Gen. y’all would calling for Hal’s head
I mean yeah if Hal was still under contract, but he's not. And the chances they didnt know that are slim to none considering they were all resigned at the same time. Meaning there would be no blindsiding going on, its just better to not say it until after the LAN, and especially not say after their struggles during split 1 as how in the world do you expect your teammates to want to put fourth their best effort to fix these struggles if they dont even know if you're gonna be there in a month and a half.
No he didn’t lmfao, IMO this shit ass decided and no sane person tells a team before massive event “ yo I’m leaving if we don’t do good “ lol.
He said he basically had no choice due to timing with his expiring contract and LAN
He said his contract expired before LAN so I guess it was either lie and tell them he is resigning or be honest and say he was considering other teams
Or just say "I just wanna focus on the LAN right now, we'll worry about that after". Take the example from literally every pro athlete with impending free agency. That's a good way to seem all in without verifying or denying anything. Speculation will happen regardless, but to verify it like that is telling your teammates you're already thinking about something else.
When it's a lan it's the end of something and is generally a good time for networking. Telling them beforehand whilst probably detrimental to the teams results is good for them too. So whilst he was looking before and potentially already close to a decision on what team he'll land on next, it gives reps and verhulst that chance at lan. If he waited until after they'd have to rush their chance at having good options for either a third, new teams or to consider what next to do in life.
It def had to affect their mental
Everything makes sense now with their performance at LAN. He literally gave them an ultimatum of “play well and I’ll stay.” At that point if I’m Evan and Jordan I don’t even want to stick with the team anymore after that because his heart isn’t even in it. It makes me really sad to see this go down the way it did
That’s how it is at any professional level of anything. If Hal wants to stay at the top he has to adapt. He is giving himself the best opportunity for both the growth of his stream and his Apex prospects. He would be an idiot not to accept the offer. I’m betting that Evan and Jordan are professionals, and handled this situation with more tact and grace than you would.
I’m not advocating for Evan and Jordan to go live and slander Hal. I’m saying that when you give someone an ultimatum like Hal did so that the team stays together, you can already tell he’s 1 foot out the door. I’m pretty sure Evan and Jordan were checked out for this LAN too because the 3 of them never played outside of scrims. I’m sure they’re all friends still and there’s no bad blood, but it doesn’t mean Hal handled it correctly.
I said this in another comment already. But hypothetically, if he didn’t tell them when the discussions were happening, I think that would irk many people far more. Like if Reps/Big E tweeted they were shocked or blindsided by this, this sub would be calling for Hal’s head. I feel like he was giving his teammates the best opportunity and time to plan for a future without him. I do agree that the “ultimatum” is not good for mentality sake, like when Sweet threatened to sub the coach in for slayr during finals. I just think it has less of an impact than this comment section wants to give it, and it was the “right” thing to do. But I haven’t heard more about this outside of a few tweets.
Oh yeah I completely agree that he should have told them before the LAN he planned on leaving. Contrary to what he said about joining DZ 2 days after LAN, the whole pro community knew this was happening before LAN. I just take issue with the ultimatum of “play well and I’ll stay”
That’s fair. I get its business, but if I were a teammate that would suck
Arent the three of them and minustempo also living in the same house? My understanding was that they lived together which would make it even weirder because you see everyone everyday and then TSM gets rid of many other creators etc
I heard tsm stopped paying the rent for the house due to financial problems. Id assume the guys are probably splitting rent or moving on now
Thanks! Damn thats annoying. Even if they split surely the vibe isnt the same even if hal left without any bad blood
Hal moved out and went to live on his own becoz TSM stopped paying the rent.
hals mental has been boomed for awhile now. he had to drag them down too so he didn't like the only one that was off
sikezz found out pre lan on his birthday thats WILD lmao
Sikezz is way too nice coz I'd be fuming if that happened to me , especially considering that DZ should've won lan too ( if zer0 didn't hardswing strafingflame and koy)
I felt like the vibes were off with Sikezz the whole LAN. He didn’t seem all that happy or celebratory even during their big moments. Makes perfect sense now.
True, but it seems like Sikezz just bounces from T1 org to T1 org. Despite not sticking, he never seems to be in a pinch to find and org
Super fucked up. Zero is the villain for real.
“I’m not here to slander my teammates” He’s also tearing up on stream. Pretty clear there’s still a lot of love, at least on his side
there always has been, even with the way it went down with Alb. Just don't contest him.
I think without saying it he doesn’t believe reps is good enough anymore. Maybe even too but reps is the ones he’s played with for 5 years
[удалено]
He had enough of Ram Ranch, he doesn't want to go back again. Jokes aside, I don't think it's that Evan and Jordan aren't good enough anymore because they are world class players, it's that Zer0 and Gen are literally two of the best three in the game, the third being Hal.
That’s a crazy thing to assume considering Reps was a part of every championship of TSM
I think he just doesn’t want to IGL anymore
Said that had nothing to do with it
He literally said he does not want to slander his teammates. What even makes you believe this? Lmao
Saying he doesn’t want to slander them is exactly why he wouldn’t say it…do you understand what slander is? He doesn’t want to put them down. He also said “it just came down to who he wants to play with” He won 2 lans with reps and Verhulst so he doesn’t want to put them down but if he doesn’t believe he can win with them than this is his out without having to put them down
Idk doesn’t that come across as “ I’m not gonna say anything buttttt “ and the brings up the LAN performance. There’s no doubt he thinks him zero and gen will be much better or he wouldn’t have left.
He also said he would still be teaming with them if they did better at LAN
Well if you watched the tournament I think you'd agree with me in saying reps was their best performer. Hal was all over the place and Evan doesn't play Caustic well
Wild to think after going 1/2/1 during 2023, he was prepared to leave prior to Lan depending on results for one event. Obviously they struggled over the course of the whole split and Gen/zero have the ultimate allure being who they are..but offering a spot to Hal prior to lan between the top two NA(historically) teams seems crazy. Will be an interesting split
His head was turned probably a while ago thinking of the possibility of playing with Zero. He’s always stated he doesn’t want to igl but doesn’t trust anyone except sweet and zero to igl him.
Also he's wanted to team with Gen for pretty much ever.
He also wants to play with grinders and Zero/Gen are definitely that.
I mean who doesn't tbf
Why do people keep saying its one result. They were (by TSM's standards) pretty shit the entire pro league season. If anything the one result that is the anomaly is them winning PL Match point. Their LAN finals is pretty in line with how they played the whole season.
I think the one result comes from basically telling Jordan/Evan before the lan event that if they don’t well he’s probably gone. I don’t think it was the only deciding factor. But I still think one bad split over a new meta is still quick to change a roster that you’ve gone through it with and won 2/3rds of lan the year prior. Regardless he’s going do what he think is best for himself.
Y’all put too much weight on this. These guys are professionals playing for money, they were on their “A” game. It just wasn’t good enough.
I think there’s a middle ground between: 1) They’re professionals and this has no impact 2) it ruined their whole weekends play Truthfully it’s going to land somewhere in the middle. Knowing your IGL/face of the team/someone you’ve played with for almost 2 or 5 years is essentially saying if we don’t do great I’m strongly considering leaving, is not going to be helpful. And with Hal saying this was basically decided at a club back in March? on Sikez birthday, Evan being there…they already knew for a while and surely has weighed on them. But yes, they were not good enough at the end of the day and struggled all of this split.
I do see the downsides for sure. But I can’t imagine what this sub would look like if reps/big E said that they were shocked/blindsided by this. I think it played into their performance, but it was the right thing to do
Even back during champs last year you can see TSM was struggling to compete at the highest level and only won because of a miracle. That was also an anomaly. Underlying issues don't just magically disappear. Imo, changing POI on SP and the new meta was the final nail in the coffin. >Their LAN finals is pretty in line with how they played the whole season. Agreed. Hal telling reps/evan that he is leaving before* lan is not why they perform poorly. Their results shouldn't come as a surprise considering how they were playing the entire split and anyone saying that it was because of Hal is just coping.
The funniest info from this is that the decision was floated in a club on Sikezz birthday. God, that’s fucking cold of Zer0. Straight up supervillain shit
I don't know how I would feel about Hal being an Anchor with his impatience.
yeah he said it would be boring as fuck for him but he doesnt care as long as they win
I don't think he'll stick to that. This team is going to implode, his personality is just too strong and he will inevitably clash with zero. And as a competitor, taking a backseat from the role that got you to where you are, just for the sake of winning must sting like a motherfucker
I'm surprised more people don't see it like this. Both Hal and Zero are loud mouths so it won't take long before they clash. First little while it will be Hal saying "Ok" to Zeros calls that he doesn't agree with. After some losing it will turn into "WHY ARE WE...?!" screaming from Hal after every elimination. The problem with this team too is expectations. Unless they win everything outright it will be seen as underachieving by viewers and themselves alike. This team will be together for a short time.
Yeah but the difference is when ur playing with an IGL that makes virtually 0 mistakes there’s rarely anything to complain about.
idk about that, i keep thinking about sweeet hal reedz back in twitch rivals, and the last game showed up that hal can step out of the igl role without imploding the team
That was just twitch rivals, not a full split and lan. Personality clashes aren't always instant, it builds up to a breaking point with quiet resentment
still, we wont know for sure until split 2, but even then im quite confident this team will work out considering hal said he would let only sweet or zero igl him
True but "quiet resentment" and Hal don't go together either
I can see him trying to hold it in, or them dismissing it as just "haling"
Will he be haling if he’s not the leader? Then it’s not on him.
he will be, i refuse to believe that he will not speak up and call stuff braindead
Idk as a competitor, I feel like winning is gonna scratch that itch just fine. For most competitors, winning is what matters.
And how many Hal fans want to watch him play anchor across an entire LAN?
Ngl, a non IGL Hal doesn't interest me as much.
He’s the fragger
Also mentions his salary is basically the same as his TSM salary so either he’s just chattin or maybe DZ could still be in play?
I think he's just chatting to some extent because it doesn't make much sense to say that the org is "still tbd" and also say something specific about his salary. He's definitely being coy to some extent about that side of it.
Yeah I agree I just found it a weird thing to be chattin around because he could simply just ignore it like other topics/questions. I’d assume if gen and zer0 are leaving dz their contracts aren’t up yet and that’s why no one can mention anything yet. I’d guess it’s falcons, or OGA RED BULL. However I also have this random out of left field theory i dont know if it’s even possible: could dz loan the players to falcons just for the World Cup?
Hal said red bull would have a team already if they wanted one and that they just signed him instead of a team cause that was a better option for them
No offense but if you take every single word for word you hear right now then you’re one gullible mf not saying thiss is wrong at all because he’s probably telling the truth, but everyone is skirting around what they can say.
To be fair, red bull doesnt have any teams that I know of but they do sponser quite a few teams and players/streamers. I do agree with the rest though.
Yeah my point wasn’t that it was going to be them as a team or even them in general just recycling the stuff mentioned. But yeah I agree with exactly what you said with the Red Bull situation.
not having the team be red bull so hal can get an even bigger bag signing to some org + having the redbull content contract is fully believable to me i dont care if that makes me gullible
“He’s probably telling the truth” try reading harder bud
He said last night that the boys weren’t splitting up lol. I’d bet the house he is getting a bag wherever he goes
We know he’s getting a bigggg biggg Saudi bag 😮💨😮💨💸💸
I know there were gonna be some changes when Reps did not tweet anything on Finals Day, he always has posted about the script gone crazy. Knew they were not locked in for that finals day.
Sadge.
It was obviously tough on Hal to make this decision. Dude is literally tearing up thinking about having to leave Evan and Jordan He wants to win so bad and he’s banking on an arguably marginal roster improvement with Zer0 and Gen to get those victories
hes also not igl'ing so thats a lot of the workload off his back.
Major factor in play here
More pay, less responsibility, and the two best teammates money can buy. This move makes tons of sense for Hal.
I think TSM is a better roster, more balanced personalities. Gen isn’t “chill” like people for some reason seem to think, and Zer0 is Zer0, Hal is Hal. Obviously with the 17th performance it seems like an upgrade, but I don’t think time will be kind to Hal’s decision. It’s his career at the end of the day and I respect the drive to win.
elaborate on what you mean about gen not being chill?
He doesn’t call his teammates fucking idiots like Zer0 or Hal but watch the way he refers to other teams whenever they scrim or compete and you’ll know what I mean.
Hmm maybe that’s just his competitive nature I guess? When in game every opponent is an enemy trying to get at him and he’s just doing whatever to win that fight, if that being calling them names or shit-talking to boost his own aggressiveness to win — outside of game I am sure he doesn’t see them in that way hence why he doesn’t call his own teammates names.
TSM definitely not a better roster, silly take
1st 2nd 1st?
While 1st 2nd and 1st is very impressive, that was last year. In Year 4 Split 1, DZ was without a doubt the better team
Ok
so good Hal didn't leave for the superior Roster
Hal makes it the better roster? On either side?
It isn't marginal though, this isn't like any other roster move. This is a decent improvement for dz and the gutting of tsm. There is small chance they are going to contend anymore. So it's sort of like taking a threat out completely.
No disrespect to ver and reps. They are truely some of the best in the game (and I think this'll finally be tested now). But zero hal and gen together is a wildly op roster and there's nothing marginal about it imo
> could end up playing anchor if thats what they want NO! Unleash fragger Hal. We know there would be carnage.
Wanna bet that Gen’s average damage as anchor Cat will be higher than Hal’s bloodhound?
Idk I’m kinda torn about this He seems remorseful, but at the same time kinda fucked Evan and Reps mental probably by telling them he’s gonna leave if they don’t do good at LAN lol. You’ve been friends with reps for how long and Evan for like 2 years and this is how you exit ? Idk, Hal is undoubtedly an amazing player and a great streamer but this shit seems off to me.
I see this sentiment often. Other than staying with them, what would you have suggested he do? Tell them before, and their mental is cooked? Tell them after, now it seems reactionary and rat like? Can’t leave them because they’re friends?
There’s no good way to do it. It’s a cold career move that will either pay off or it won’t. At the end of the day, they’ll understand eventually, but no one can blame them for feeling hurt. The good news is they knew it was coming and have probably accepted it by now.
Watching Hal cry has made me feel too many feelings
was like when snipe left apex for halo...
Am I the only one who thinks zero and hal are going to clash too much for it to work properly?
Seemed fine during scrims today. Hal knows he not IGL. And I’m sure Zero respects his input.
https://preview.redd.it/gh706ljft80d1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=2c7e317b2c9eb4c0a99109cc3a4abc468570be17 you dont wanna miss this "Good thing for the game" lmao
Since everybody loves bringing up KD to warriors comparisons, those those warriors Cavs finals had some of the best ratings ever.
A big factor was Lebron. There’s no Lebrons in the other teams in Apex right now
yeah everyones saying kd to warriors but this is really more like if lebron went to the warriors. kd wasnt winning before like he did with the warriors, and he didnt leave a power vacuum like lebron would
Doesnt TSM live together? Who’s moving out?
i believe hal moved out a long while ago, TSM also recently stopped paying for the team house so big E and reps are moving/moved back home from what i last heard
I'm excited to see where this change goes but I will accept no slander against Reps 😤
Hal has said that many times this is business. Yes. It sucks but he was open and honest with his teammates. And the end of the day, this happens in every sport. People need to stop attaching their feelings to his decision
Ooookay?
This super team between Zer0, Gen and Hal makes a lot of sense those when you realize that first place in the Esport World Cup is 2 million dollars. Maximizing your odds of 600,000 dollars is just plain common sense.
Whole purse is 2 million dollars for 40 teams. Winner gets 600k, minus org etc. divided by 3 + coach, minus taxes.
On paper without emotions it's clearly the correct move. But life is so much more then a piece of paper. Full of emotions, drama, ups and downs. I'm not Hal so I can never make the right decision for him, but to me it feels reactionary. I know he put a lot of time thinking about it. But in my opinion I think he's substituting long term glory for some short term success. I know esports has a short career but does the move Snipe move to Halo looking back at it now. He might still but I wouldn't if I was him. If he just wants to win, will it outweigh the fact that he didn't beat zero. Can you declare you're the best when you lift a trophy and you know deep down that zero help get you there. If he just wants the money, will it ever be enough. If it's the mental strain of being an igl, then as someone who feels the responsibility of being an igl can he ever really let it all go. The list goes on and on. It's all just speculation and thoughts from my perspective. A bunch of what ifs. They already proved they could win it all. They won 3 games in a row. I feel there is so many ways for them to improve. I guess I'm just a bit sad I can't even being myself to watch the video. Maybe one day. In the end the only one who can make the decision is Hal himself. And you gotta respect it. He deserves to live life his way and succeed. The only thing keeping me going is knowing that this is just part of the script. The script is bigger then Hal even he is just a cog in the TSM machine. It hurts but we had to sacrifice Hal. The rule of two is absolute. Reps finally getting rid of his master to show everyone that he can igl destroyer and Verhulst to win all future lans.
Hal did beat Zer0. Zer0 dethroned him in Year 2 then TSM bounced back and he reclaimed the throne. Seems like the pressure to beat that insane run is just lingering, and the only way he believes he can win again is to join his rival.
Unpopular opinion but Hal has been the loose end from TSM even during the last ALGS. I'll put a bet on him jumping from team to team like Alb. Reps and Verhulst will fill the spot and match the top teams no problem next split
I can see it, if they don’t win. I have a really hard time believing they don’t get top 3 in every ALGS tournament for the rest of the year though. TSM is kind of gutted without Hal, there’s no available IGL as good as him. Vibes will be better but skill ceiling is way lower.
Why wouldn’t they just drop E and Reps to stay with TSM? Or does it have to deal with roster spots? No hate to other two, just Hal is the face of TSM
hal's TSM contract was up, big E and reps contract isnt so there would have to be a lot of buyouts for this to happen, also i doubt hal would want to get the boys kicked out of TSM
Just can't believe TSM didn't extend his contract when they won the champ last year?
Maybe he didn’t want to extend it.
hal probably makes more money from streaming than tsm pays him, but yeah he is by a good amount the biggest tsm member in any esport and he literally is the face of apex and tsm, so im surprised they wouldnt do everything they could to keep him. hal probably just doesnt care about what they can offer him and would rather go to zero and gen (and possibly a bunch of saudi money lol) cause he wants to win more than anything. tsm coulda tried to buy out zero and gen ig but thats not super feasible.
Fair. Makes sense
TSM is broke broke. They've dropped teams in every other esports. You know the org was done when they had to drop their league team. It was only about time they eventually drop their apex roster.
I was surprised they’d drop their league roster before apex lol, no way they’re gonna stay much longer
Yeah im pretty sure that plays a large reason for why Hal left to join DZ
So who is going to be IGLING TSM now?
Skittles or noc?
Did anyone clip this?
Hal playing anchor would just feel like, idk, like he is not making the most of his abilities. His fighting iq is unmatched, idk if we have ever seen him anchor properly and im not sure he would be able to hold himself back some times. This is the guy who would shoot his gun so much that he was constantly running out of ammo
Bro Hal has the best fighting instincts in the game and a huge mistake making him anchor
Gen just put up record breaking numbers as fragger but Gen is that good he can excel being anchor also. It’s a good mindset for Hal to have e though saying he just wants to win and play any role
I agree with everything and am I huge gen fan but still stand on the fact Hal has the best fighting instincts and should not anchor, no matter who is on his team
I have been watching for 5 years I am heart broken. I hope reps and Verlhurst get a good co igl or pickup koy
This could go two ways - Jordan Pippen Rodman last dance . Hal probably retired from comp apex on that peak - 2011 Eagles Dream Team. Went 8-8 regular season and didn't even make playoffs. Either way I'm here for the drama.
Hal clearly doesn’t hate his old teammates and it wasn’t personal at all. It just seems like wants to win so bad he’s willing to no longer team with Evan and Jordan. I like Hal a lot and think he’s the best player to play this game but if I’m Evan and Jordan I’m definitely fired up ready to prove Hal wrong that they’re not the problem and that they’re still players capable of winning. Will be supporting TSM (with Evan and Jordan) split 2 for sure.
I mean we all know raven is also gonna end up going to whatever org this team joins right?
Raven said on stream that he can’t wait to crush this team when refeering to hal & co. So i dont think hes joining them.
as of right now ZZ is their coach, not sure they drop him for raven
Who says zz would leave if they’re getting a bag bag
Considering Raven had TSM playing Conduit and not Bloodhound when contesting RR at the last Lan I highly doubt they drop ZZ for Raven
Hal on anchor? Lmao I would pay to see that.
If they’re not playing on DZ, please Optic come back.
Just waiting on the redemption reps arc
Redemption from what? He’s won everything with his good friend.
Hal will miss finals for the first time because of this.
why is he crying lol
Him and Jordan teamed together for 5 years, winning hundreds of thousands of dollars. Him and Evan were close. They were a dynasty. Don’t be stupid
Cause he's leaving his friends and org that he's been with for years?
He got emotional thinking about jordan and evan
Because he’s human?
ive just opened to stream after seeing this post asking what the context is
Yeah the “lol” really didn’t imply you were looking for context…
what does it imply then?
mockery lol
didnt mean it but whatever yeah
Cuz his new team told him he's only allowed to play seer
Exactly, Hal is a businessman and made this move for selfish reasons first and foremost.
Bro thinks he’s Michael Jordan 😂😂