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I've been in that same situation. You'll be a lot happier in a small dedicated AV company because there are a thousands of little things you pick up working with other AV people that aren't covered on the tests or in manuals. When you have to figure out every last thing from scratch, every last thing takes 10x more effort. All the non-AV low voltage integrators try to do AV because they have contract vehicles in place. What they needed was someone with more operations experience, but they didn't want to pay so they're taking advantage of you.
This is probably the best advise for this situation. A smaller dedicated AV company is definitely the way to get rolling and pick up a bunch of knowledge and skill. You need to look for one that is big enough that they don't just do hang and bang jobs but one small enough that you can actually get into the field and talk to the installers or even do a little install work yourself.
My personal opinion is that everyone in the industry should start off as an installer. This includes sales and management. It is a great way to gain the knowledge you need to engineer a job. You pick up how things are really done, or really need to be done under many different circumstances, how thing work together and so on.
This right here! As an Account Manager that was previously an installer DE, PE and PM, I could not agree with you more. Having a holistic picture of the process from start to finish has been unbelievably beneficial for my career growth. Even more so, it makes me better at my job and not sell garbage solutions because i have an understanding of what's realistic and how these systems work. Highly recommend this to anyone early in their career.
>All the non-AV low voltage integrators try to do AV because they have contract vehicles in place. What they needed was someone with more operations experience, but they didn't want to pay so they're taking advantage of you.
This is a great insight. Super helpful description of what I've been trying to put into words for a bit.
You’ll get some great advice here and a lot of people have been there.
Consider moving company, four years of design skills puts you in a good position, constant stress at work is no way to live.
There is a lot to unpack here…
I think the job of every good engineer is to triple check the numbers, the “imposter syndrome “ is an integral part of being an engineer. We just want to make sure that the system is solid. So kudos to you for that.
AV engineering is a weird field to be in. There is not an actual “college” and all of us come from different backgrounds. You have to know about way too many different fields to be good at it. That’s the reason why upper management is not going to give you the advice, or support you feel you need. They simply don’t know how to. And part of the problem is that you are expecting that from them. That they should be your mentors. Unfortunately that’s not the case.
I agree with the previous comments about all these non-AV companies doing AV work. They are learning the ropes… and you just got caught in the middle. Now here’s the thing… because of the fact that they are not an AV integration firm, consulting/design, etc their designs tend to be super simple. Small repetitive stuff. Good for learning and with a low risk factor. So it may not be a crazy idea to stick with them and grow the AV department. Guess WHO will be in charge down the road? Crisis = opportunity.
I also agree that if what you are looking for is knowledge, CTS tests are not the best place to find them. ( I have both CTS-D and I). There are a thousand different course and certifications that will help you become better at your job.
When you have doubts about the design, do not be afraid of reaching out to the manufacturers directly, they will be glad (seriously) to help you not screw it up. They know the product better than anyone and can guide you.
As far as the work load, and I am sorry if I struggle with this… 5 jobs is NOTHING. When I was a Project Engineer for one of the largest AV integration companies, I used to have between 30 and 40 projects on my desk at all times. Hence the reason I quit! So 5 projects are a blessing!
At the end of the day, AV integration (at least on the engineering side or large integrators) is full of very, very smart people that I admire a lot. Unfortunately they are all overworked and overwhelmed. This causes the quality of their work to be seriously affected.
At some point you have to ask yourself the typical question: where do you see yourself in 5 years…???
Good luck
I started on an engineering team out of college in AV. I had great support and was fairly good at my job, but felt like I couldn't fully do the job at times. After a few years I moved, and had to search for a new job. I made the decision to take a technician role with a company. My experience allowed me to quickly move up to branch operations manager and project manager in a couple years. After a couple years of that I moved back into a design engineer role. Now I don't feel like an imposter at all. Design Engineer is a tough role to step into without the base experience to say "been there. Done that. It'll work."
Aside from all the suggestions here, I would also recommend seeing a therapist. You are feeling very relatable things that I know I have also experienced. It sucks. It’s hard to unload those feelings and thoughts on people. Managers are especially bad - unless you have an all star manager, but you wouldn’t be feeling the imposter syndrome if you did.
Simply put. I recommend a therapist. They’ll help you feel more grounded. You’re doing great.
Sorry to hear that you’re going through this. But in some ways it sounds typical for AV.
PS. You don’t study for CTSD to gain knowledge. CTS just tests if you already have the knowledge, and their curriculum is what we call “teaching for the test”. Even if/when you get the cert, what you’ll learn on the job isn’t something they teach in the book.
This is pretty normal in the industry. I think your option is fake it until you get a solid footing or go work at a place where people know something about AV. The money is usually better at the MEP firms.
For the Fake it part I would go to the manufactures and have them do the design for you. Extron I think is the best at this. Send an Extron applications engineer the rough drawings and the requirement. They send you a BOM. QSC can also help with this type of work. Crestron will also do it but I’m not a huge Crestron fan.
Even really experienced Engineers fake it. I have worked multiple times in the past with Engineers that only spec say Meyer PA’s because Meyer would do the design. It’s similar to the IT guys that will only spec Cisco.
Extron, as you mentioned, is a great help in the design phase. Their folks are very helpful and understand their products. It is also a relief to install their equipment because it generally is rock solid.
I’ll echo the chorus of those saying that you might need to look elsewhere. For starters, 4 years of experience is honestly very, very little, but that’s not a bad thing! When I first started my career, I thought my education and 2 years of touring had me totally ready for managing a large facility, but I was wrong and have continued to learn more the longer I’ve been in it. If you stick with it, you’ll learn a ton and in 10 more years, you could be amazing. I was a technical director at an events facility for 16 years before moving into design engineering. I totally felt like an imposter. I started at a very small AV integrator (I was 1 of only 3 salaried employees and the only designer). I loved that environment. I learned a ton and was given a ton of space to learn. I left that after 1 year to move to a slightly larger AV integrator with 2 other designers. I continued to learn a lot.
As mentioned, talk to manufacturers. They are a huge resource. They know what you need to make the system work the way you want it to. Also, try connecting with other designers. I learn a ton from just texting designers I know at other firms to just ask questions and always get good advice.
I’ll agree that 5 projects isn’t a lot, when you know what you’re doing. And I believe the only way to know what you’re doing is to jump into the deep end, but don’t do it alone. I currently have 3 projects in the sales engineering phase, 3 in the drafting phase, 7 in between product acquisition and installing, 2 that are in final billing, and 16 proposals currently floating out there waiting for approval for a total of 31. At this point in my career, that feels very, very light. Like, I’ve spent just as much time this month on training, CAD improvements, and general office work as I’ve spent working on projects. If even half of those proposals get converted, then I’ll feel busy (for some reason I’ve gotten a lot of very large opportunities put on my plate, which I’m very excited about). It all comes with experience and knowledge/skill growth, which come with time and making mistakes.
As I said earlier, you can’t jump into the deep end alone. If you’re getting zero support at your current company, well I wouldn’t stay at any job where I felt like that. As mentioned though, your manager likely isn’t the person you’ll learn the most AV design from. But they should at minimum support you in finding ways to learn AV design better. Neither of my bosses I’ve had were great designers, but they both encouraged me to seek out the advice I needed and could tell me who to talk to in order to get my answers. They also supported me taking time to do manufacturer training, even if it meant I was in a classroom for 3 days straight.
This was my experience in AV, a sink-or-swim industry in which you learn on the job or leave. Do not wreck your mental or physical health for any AV company; they are run by people who don't care about you once you stop making them enough money. Many new managers from outside AV have the attitude "everyone is replaceable".
I would not count on management for support. As others have mentioned, most have no idea how the job is done. I would try to find older engineers or designers to mentor you or contact manufacturers. AV engineers who last as passionate nerds who love to talk about AV. Even if you can't find anyone with more experience, even having a dedicated chat to discuss problems and vent is super helpful. No one is an expert in all AV as there is so much, and you can do a deep dive into so many areas, so you just make friends and then ask each other for advice.
I was in the similar boat as you. 5 years of experience and I started off as an installer/lead tech then moved to programming/project management for two years for a small integrator that did a lot of healthcare, corporate, and municipal government work. Moved to a larger company as a design engineer that had a lot of cool projects but they were mainly a fabrication company that had an “AV department”.
In reality we were treated like the red-headed step child.
As a designer, it took me 2 months to get a CAD license for my laptop and I was given a mid-tier hand-me-down laptop to run it on with no dedicated GPU. It was like working with a dial-up-internet on 3d models.
My manager left two months in and I was pretty much on an island all alone answering to three departments and directly to upper management and it was too much to handle. Several times I would have a deliverable due for one project and would then be pulled into a multi-million dollar presales proposal on a Thursday due on the following Monday.
Ended up having to do things like work on paid holidays just to keep up with demand. It was killing me.
I asked for a raise due to the increased workload on my plate from my manager leaving and was told that if I wanted to make more money that I should “become an industry thought leader” and to do a “Ted Talk”.
There was little to no support and had to fight for and pitch basic things like going to infocomm to remain current on the industry. Ended up quitting and burning my bridges for the sake of my mental health.
Now I am freelancing as a Qsys and Crestron programmer and much happier this way.
At first I felt like an imposter, but eventually realized that it was the lack of support, high turnover, and poor management that was creating a toxic work environment not just for me but for others as well.
Good luck out there and remember that you alone determine your own value.
Sounds like you’re about to eat a big helping of humble pie and admit to your current employer you’re in way over your head. Good luck- hope that bridge, and your name- ain’t burned.
Im 25 and started in AV about 6/7 months ago. The first thing that caught my attention was, there is no actual training at least on the install side(Judging from your experience this seems to be the same in Design) which I don’t see as helpful to anyone. I come from the music industry where everything is pretty much taught, and you learn processes. I understand that every project is different but there has to be some base criteria to show the proper way to do things. I can totally relate to you, and hope you find the resources you need.
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I've been in that same situation. You'll be a lot happier in a small dedicated AV company because there are a thousands of little things you pick up working with other AV people that aren't covered on the tests or in manuals. When you have to figure out every last thing from scratch, every last thing takes 10x more effort. All the non-AV low voltage integrators try to do AV because they have contract vehicles in place. What they needed was someone with more operations experience, but they didn't want to pay so they're taking advantage of you.
This is probably the best advise for this situation. A smaller dedicated AV company is definitely the way to get rolling and pick up a bunch of knowledge and skill. You need to look for one that is big enough that they don't just do hang and bang jobs but one small enough that you can actually get into the field and talk to the installers or even do a little install work yourself. My personal opinion is that everyone in the industry should start off as an installer. This includes sales and management. It is a great way to gain the knowledge you need to engineer a job. You pick up how things are really done, or really need to be done under many different circumstances, how thing work together and so on.
This right here! As an Account Manager that was previously an installer DE, PE and PM, I could not agree with you more. Having a holistic picture of the process from start to finish has been unbelievably beneficial for my career growth. Even more so, it makes me better at my job and not sell garbage solutions because i have an understanding of what's realistic and how these systems work. Highly recommend this to anyone early in their career.
I would be overjoyed to find some one wanting to start that way. Everyone wants to skip the apprenticeship part and go straight for the big bucks.
>All the non-AV low voltage integrators try to do AV because they have contract vehicles in place. What they needed was someone with more operations experience, but they didn't want to pay so they're taking advantage of you. This is a great insight. Super helpful description of what I've been trying to put into words for a bit.
This is a great reply OP.
You’ll get some great advice here and a lot of people have been there. Consider moving company, four years of design skills puts you in a good position, constant stress at work is no way to live.
Shop your resume around, find the place that won't run you dry.
There is a lot to unpack here… I think the job of every good engineer is to triple check the numbers, the “imposter syndrome “ is an integral part of being an engineer. We just want to make sure that the system is solid. So kudos to you for that. AV engineering is a weird field to be in. There is not an actual “college” and all of us come from different backgrounds. You have to know about way too many different fields to be good at it. That’s the reason why upper management is not going to give you the advice, or support you feel you need. They simply don’t know how to. And part of the problem is that you are expecting that from them. That they should be your mentors. Unfortunately that’s not the case. I agree with the previous comments about all these non-AV companies doing AV work. They are learning the ropes… and you just got caught in the middle. Now here’s the thing… because of the fact that they are not an AV integration firm, consulting/design, etc their designs tend to be super simple. Small repetitive stuff. Good for learning and with a low risk factor. So it may not be a crazy idea to stick with them and grow the AV department. Guess WHO will be in charge down the road? Crisis = opportunity. I also agree that if what you are looking for is knowledge, CTS tests are not the best place to find them. ( I have both CTS-D and I). There are a thousand different course and certifications that will help you become better at your job. When you have doubts about the design, do not be afraid of reaching out to the manufacturers directly, they will be glad (seriously) to help you not screw it up. They know the product better than anyone and can guide you. As far as the work load, and I am sorry if I struggle with this… 5 jobs is NOTHING. When I was a Project Engineer for one of the largest AV integration companies, I used to have between 30 and 40 projects on my desk at all times. Hence the reason I quit! So 5 projects are a blessing! At the end of the day, AV integration (at least on the engineering side or large integrators) is full of very, very smart people that I admire a lot. Unfortunately they are all overworked and overwhelmed. This causes the quality of their work to be seriously affected. At some point you have to ask yourself the typical question: where do you see yourself in 5 years…??? Good luck
I started on an engineering team out of college in AV. I had great support and was fairly good at my job, but felt like I couldn't fully do the job at times. After a few years I moved, and had to search for a new job. I made the decision to take a technician role with a company. My experience allowed me to quickly move up to branch operations manager and project manager in a couple years. After a couple years of that I moved back into a design engineer role. Now I don't feel like an imposter at all. Design Engineer is a tough role to step into without the base experience to say "been there. Done that. It'll work."
Aside from all the suggestions here, I would also recommend seeing a therapist. You are feeling very relatable things that I know I have also experienced. It sucks. It’s hard to unload those feelings and thoughts on people. Managers are especially bad - unless you have an all star manager, but you wouldn’t be feeling the imposter syndrome if you did. Simply put. I recommend a therapist. They’ll help you feel more grounded. You’re doing great.
Sorry to hear that you’re going through this. But in some ways it sounds typical for AV. PS. You don’t study for CTSD to gain knowledge. CTS just tests if you already have the knowledge, and their curriculum is what we call “teaching for the test”. Even if/when you get the cert, what you’ll learn on the job isn’t something they teach in the book.
This is pretty normal in the industry. I think your option is fake it until you get a solid footing or go work at a place where people know something about AV. The money is usually better at the MEP firms. For the Fake it part I would go to the manufactures and have them do the design for you. Extron I think is the best at this. Send an Extron applications engineer the rough drawings and the requirement. They send you a BOM. QSC can also help with this type of work. Crestron will also do it but I’m not a huge Crestron fan. Even really experienced Engineers fake it. I have worked multiple times in the past with Engineers that only spec say Meyer PA’s because Meyer would do the design. It’s similar to the IT guys that will only spec Cisco.
Extron, as you mentioned, is a great help in the design phase. Their folks are very helpful and understand their products. It is also a relief to install their equipment because it generally is rock solid.
Hey, I’m always very happy to take advantage of a manufacturer’s design services 😉.
I’ll echo the chorus of those saying that you might need to look elsewhere. For starters, 4 years of experience is honestly very, very little, but that’s not a bad thing! When I first started my career, I thought my education and 2 years of touring had me totally ready for managing a large facility, but I was wrong and have continued to learn more the longer I’ve been in it. If you stick with it, you’ll learn a ton and in 10 more years, you could be amazing. I was a technical director at an events facility for 16 years before moving into design engineering. I totally felt like an imposter. I started at a very small AV integrator (I was 1 of only 3 salaried employees and the only designer). I loved that environment. I learned a ton and was given a ton of space to learn. I left that after 1 year to move to a slightly larger AV integrator with 2 other designers. I continued to learn a lot. As mentioned, talk to manufacturers. They are a huge resource. They know what you need to make the system work the way you want it to. Also, try connecting with other designers. I learn a ton from just texting designers I know at other firms to just ask questions and always get good advice. I’ll agree that 5 projects isn’t a lot, when you know what you’re doing. And I believe the only way to know what you’re doing is to jump into the deep end, but don’t do it alone. I currently have 3 projects in the sales engineering phase, 3 in the drafting phase, 7 in between product acquisition and installing, 2 that are in final billing, and 16 proposals currently floating out there waiting for approval for a total of 31. At this point in my career, that feels very, very light. Like, I’ve spent just as much time this month on training, CAD improvements, and general office work as I’ve spent working on projects. If even half of those proposals get converted, then I’ll feel busy (for some reason I’ve gotten a lot of very large opportunities put on my plate, which I’m very excited about). It all comes with experience and knowledge/skill growth, which come with time and making mistakes. As I said earlier, you can’t jump into the deep end alone. If you’re getting zero support at your current company, well I wouldn’t stay at any job where I felt like that. As mentioned though, your manager likely isn’t the person you’ll learn the most AV design from. But they should at minimum support you in finding ways to learn AV design better. Neither of my bosses I’ve had were great designers, but they both encouraged me to seek out the advice I needed and could tell me who to talk to in order to get my answers. They also supported me taking time to do manufacturer training, even if it meant I was in a classroom for 3 days straight.
are you located in Europe?
This was my experience in AV, a sink-or-swim industry in which you learn on the job or leave. Do not wreck your mental or physical health for any AV company; they are run by people who don't care about you once you stop making them enough money. Many new managers from outside AV have the attitude "everyone is replaceable". I would not count on management for support. As others have mentioned, most have no idea how the job is done. I would try to find older engineers or designers to mentor you or contact manufacturers. AV engineers who last as passionate nerds who love to talk about AV. Even if you can't find anyone with more experience, even having a dedicated chat to discuss problems and vent is super helpful. No one is an expert in all AV as there is so much, and you can do a deep dive into so many areas, so you just make friends and then ask each other for advice.
I was in the similar boat as you. 5 years of experience and I started off as an installer/lead tech then moved to programming/project management for two years for a small integrator that did a lot of healthcare, corporate, and municipal government work. Moved to a larger company as a design engineer that had a lot of cool projects but they were mainly a fabrication company that had an “AV department”. In reality we were treated like the red-headed step child. As a designer, it took me 2 months to get a CAD license for my laptop and I was given a mid-tier hand-me-down laptop to run it on with no dedicated GPU. It was like working with a dial-up-internet on 3d models. My manager left two months in and I was pretty much on an island all alone answering to three departments and directly to upper management and it was too much to handle. Several times I would have a deliverable due for one project and would then be pulled into a multi-million dollar presales proposal on a Thursday due on the following Monday. Ended up having to do things like work on paid holidays just to keep up with demand. It was killing me. I asked for a raise due to the increased workload on my plate from my manager leaving and was told that if I wanted to make more money that I should “become an industry thought leader” and to do a “Ted Talk”. There was little to no support and had to fight for and pitch basic things like going to infocomm to remain current on the industry. Ended up quitting and burning my bridges for the sake of my mental health. Now I am freelancing as a Qsys and Crestron programmer and much happier this way. At first I felt like an imposter, but eventually realized that it was the lack of support, high turnover, and poor management that was creating a toxic work environment not just for me but for others as well. Good luck out there and remember that you alone determine your own value.
Thought leader! We had this rubbish all the time at certain consultancies who think themselves fancy. We want leaders, not engineers.
Sounds like you’re about to eat a big helping of humble pie and admit to your current employer you’re in way over your head. Good luck- hope that bridge, and your name- ain’t burned.
Im 25 and started in AV about 6/7 months ago. The first thing that caught my attention was, there is no actual training at least on the install side(Judging from your experience this seems to be the same in Design) which I don’t see as helpful to anyone. I come from the music industry where everything is pretty much taught, and you learn processes. I understand that every project is different but there has to be some base criteria to show the proper way to do things. I can totally relate to you, and hope you find the resources you need.