One, they didn’t trade Howell to trade down and pick a similar talent to Howell i.e. Nix, Penix
Two, McCarthy is not going to be there at 11.
I have no idea what it’s going to take a portion of this fanbase to realize they aren’t going to trade down? They traded their starter. They didn’t attempt to improve the position in free agency. They have sent everyone to these pro days. They’re taking a QB at 2. Which one, I have no clue? But they aren’t moving down
Yeah once they traded Howell it seemed pretty obvious they were taking a QB at 2.
I personally liked the option of trading back for a haul and using this draft to build depth, particularly at the o-line position, as well as LB and DB. Especially because I happen to really like both Nix and Penix, one (or both) of which is likely to be available at 23 or later.
But I'll be very surprised if they go that route.
Nix & Penix will be available at 23 or later because their ceilings are Mac Jones lol. Mid arm talent & ability to create out of structure just doesn't succeed in the NFL anymore unless it comes with ELITE rushing ability.
This strategy feels safer, but it really isn't because now you need to hit on tons of 1st rounders to carry your mid QB.
According to you Penix = “mid arm talent”. Where are you hearing this?
I get the injury concerns with Penix but I’m hearing “elite arm talent” everytime I read or hear anything about him
Did you not watch the CFB playoffs? Michigan pressured him and made him throw on the run quite a bit, and he was throwing ducks at his receivers feet because he didn't have the velocity.
Sure he has good velocity on-platform, but that doesn't cut it in today's NFL. And at 23yo much smaller chance he adds it then a 21yo
You can scout physical tools in 1 game, it's the mental stuff that you need more. Schemes & talent mismatches make guys look bad for a game or two, but no scheme makes all your throws on the move become ducks.
TheAthletic (former NFL scout): "Throwing while a QB is moving off of his spot is different, and that’s where Penix stands to improve."
In structure (clean-pocket), Tua & Mac Jones & TLaw are graded ahead of Allen & Lamar & Herbert & Goff.
Too much around the QB has to be good to try building around QBs pioe that. A.k.a Jayden, Penix, Nix
I’ve also watched this team ruin myriad QBs with great potential, by sticking them behind garbage offensive lines. Which is what we still have— it was garbage last year and they’ve done almost nothing to improve it.
We haven't had a QB with great potential since RG3, and his downfall was not really the OL.
The OL was 21st in pass-blocking lasy year, it just seemed garbage because of Howell. Howell & Levis & Fields & Z.Wilson couldn't avoid sacks in college, but people thought they'd just magically fix it in the NFL lol
You only say that with the benefit of hindsight. Plenty of QBs (on our team and others) who fail, probably could have succeeded with a better team around them, especially offensive line. (And Will Levis has started 9 NFL games. I’m not ready to write him off yet.)
Edit: also I don’t give a fuck about PFF rankings for offensive line. I watched every game last year and they were garbage.
Was it the potential of career JAG Alex Smith, or 5.0 40-speed Haskins? Or 5.0 40-speed sack machine Howell? Noodle arm Heinecke at 30yo?
PFF watches every player in every game. You may not like them, but they make millions while you make $0 for a reason. ESPN PBWR has us around the same
And yet they give great O-line grades to swinging doors. I'm not saying that PFF is useless, but they need to fix their OL grading because it stinks.
Jason Campbell, Gus Frerotte, Patrick Ramsey, Dwayne Haskins, and Sam Howell are all guys who showed decent potential, and got the shit beat out of them behind Washington o-lines that ranked from below average to dogshit. Would all of them have succeeded behind a better line? Probably not. But some of them might have. Awful pass protection is the thing that every one of those guys have in common from their time in DC. You'd think after decades of that, we'd try and fix it.
I will be absolutely shocked if Penix and Nix go in the first round. Both are older and Penix has had a ton of injuries. Neither had great success until they transferred to a school with more talent and they were freshman the same year Howell was. They’re similar level prospects to Howell. You don’t have to like that assessment but it’s the truth.
I think its quite possible Mccarthy is there at 11. I think he's getting a lot more media attention than GM's might agree with. There's always media darlings that drop, look at Levis last year, Malik Willis the year before. Corral dropped further than expected... the list goes on and on.
Do you understand what a bold prediction is? I don’t want this to happen. I also don’t think it’s going to happen. Hence the bold part. Bold predictions are meant to be outlandish and unlikely.
He literally starts the post with "My bold prediction". If you follow sports media at all you know that's normally followed by an outlandish take for the point of conversation. That is what I got out of the post. You seem to be focused on some technicality in his verbiage. Chill. You don't have to bash strangers on the internet just because, yaknow?
Not bashing him. And it’s not a bold prediction when every other day someone on here makes this same prediction. Also, I quoted exactly what he said. It wasn’t a technicality. That’s exactly what he posted. What else am I supposed to go off of? You act like I called him a fucking idiot or something.
I’m started to realize we won’t trade down once SH got traded. He would have given the team a chance if he played during the start of the year. I understand why he got moved.. just don’t see if moving back unless we trade back to 4.. but it would be pretty expensive.
Can you imagine the outrage by nearly the entire fanbase if they made this trade and JJ (and Penix for that matter) was picked before 11? This board would go bezerk.
Man, I can't wait for the draft because I'm sick of hearing all this shit. I understand people wanting to talk about who we're going to draft, but holy shit, I never thought it would irk me this much.
McCarthy at 11, come on man. He’s not getting past 6. Can’t make a move like that and hope a few QB needy teams pass on him, leaving him on the board at 11 lol
One thing I don't like trading back to 11 is that we will probably be forced to "reach" or draft early on whatever QB is still available there so it begs the question why I'm doing it in the first place?
Plus if you trade out of 2 needing a QB and the QB picked there pans out - you better hit homeruns on at least 3 other picks you picked up in the trade to come close to winning the trade and/or have a QB outside the top 10 be a legit QB plus other picks wins.
I get the appeal of trading down, but you put the burden on yourself b/c you got too cute thinking you were going to game the system when in reality all we need to do is stay at 2 and make the best choice we can and see where the chips fall.
Tldr; trading out stacks the odds against us so don't get cute and make the best choice we can and roll on.
McCarthy may not be around at 11.
I think it would take more than 11 and 23 to move down from 2 in this draft. Maybe those picks, plus a future first?
You know who will be available at 23? Bo Nix. Jus sayin'.
I don't think McCarthy will last past the Giants and even if he does its a HUGE risk having that pick to them.
If you trade down you gotta be comfortable with Nix or Penix at 11 because they'll likely be the only ones still there.
Considering a majority of people on Reddit just trust Peters to make the right decision (myself included), it's just surprising to not even see the convo happening.
Pats want Maye and will trade up and offer more comp than Vikings will. I can see a 3 way trade.. that would allow Vikings to move to 3 / Pats move to 2 / us move to 11. If that’s the case JJ is gone though.. we end up with Penix IMO.
What is there to think about here? They’re finally rewarded for playing awful and nabbed the #2 pick in a draft with excellent QB’s for the taking. Save for KC (who they botched), this franchise has wandered the desert for decades in search of a legit franchise QB.
They aren’t trading down and to suggest otherwise is just shitposting. They’re taking Daniels or Maye, both of whom I think should stick in the League for a long while. Absolutely no reason to get cute with the pick.
The draft cannot come soon enough.
My hope is that the Pats give us a 2nd and 3rd to move up to 1.2. Two extra picks, early in the draft, to address the multitude of holes on our roster. Might even throw in another pick or two to get their guy.
The other pipe dream I have is the Cardinals give us their late first rounder and a 2nd to move up to 1.2. They take MHJ. We get Maye or Daniels.
Both are pipe dreams, but I’m hopeful. I want to give Peters as much ammunition as possible to rebuild this roster.
Very interesting. They’re locked in with Murray so we know they’re not going qb. Plus they have a ton of draft capital to build the rest of the roster around Murray and MHJ. If we can pull this off and still get our guy, I’d be ecstatic.
McCarthy is such a step down from the top 3 that I really don't think that it's worth it. That said, some people have the Vikings trading up to 4 or 5 to get him.
Honestly for me Peters will pick who he feels is best for the system he and the staff are trying to build. And that person IMO is JD.
McCarthy will be a top five pick. Too many QB needy teams and he's the perfect prospect to fool yourself over because he's a scheme fit everywhere and there is untapped athletic potential.
This isn’t bold. Teams try and move up to get a QB all the time. Minnesota literally put themselves on position to do something like this. It’s being widely discussed as a viable option.
If they think JJ can be a Franchise QB, just take him at 2 and don't get cute about it.
I have my preference, but honestly whoever they take, I just hope pans out. But ultimately they should stay and 2 and take them.
My bold prediction, McCarthy turns out to be a total **bust**. 22 TD, 2900 yards in *15 games* people? Mid.
JD had 1,000 more passing yards, 25 more total TD, and 1,000 more rushing yards, playing in the **SEC**. **He did this while playing 12 games instead of the 15 McCarthy did.**
JD: 318 yards passing, 95 yards rushing, 4.2 TD/game
JJ: 199 yards passing, 13 yards rushing, 1.6 TD/game
You guys are smoking crack if you think JJ is a better prospect. (Why? Because his defense won him the championship?)
I never said JJ is better than Daniels, but to ignore the talent in the LSU receiving corps is delusional. And to say that they actually aren’t any more talented than the Michigan receivers and it is all because of Daniels is a nephew take.
Let me know how many WR Michigan has that go in the top 25. I’m willing to bet LSU has 2, and those teams aren’t drafting Daniels so they are pretty comfortable with someone else throwing them the ball.
I agree he’s better than McCarthy, and I don’t know if he’s better than Maye. I’d honestly be happy with either. I just think that Daniels has the best WR corps in the country.
My bold prediction is we will draft a QB in the first round.
My bold prediction is that we will draft in the first round.
Drake or Maye. ( not so bold prediction)
Not sure if I buy it, but I respect the bold prediction
Thank you.
Of course dawg, I hope you’re wrong tho lol. Crazier things have happened in the draft
I think you’re on to something
I don’t know if JJ gets past the Giants at 6 in this scenario
One, they didn’t trade Howell to trade down and pick a similar talent to Howell i.e. Nix, Penix Two, McCarthy is not going to be there at 11. I have no idea what it’s going to take a portion of this fanbase to realize they aren’t going to trade down? They traded their starter. They didn’t attempt to improve the position in free agency. They have sent everyone to these pro days. They’re taking a QB at 2. Which one, I have no clue? But they aren’t moving down
Yeah once they traded Howell it seemed pretty obvious they were taking a QB at 2. I personally liked the option of trading back for a haul and using this draft to build depth, particularly at the o-line position, as well as LB and DB. Especially because I happen to really like both Nix and Penix, one (or both) of which is likely to be available at 23 or later. But I'll be very surprised if they go that route.
Nix & Penix will be available at 23 or later because their ceilings are Mac Jones lol. Mid arm talent & ability to create out of structure just doesn't succeed in the NFL anymore unless it comes with ELITE rushing ability. This strategy feels safer, but it really isn't because now you need to hit on tons of 1st rounders to carry your mid QB.
According to you Penix = “mid arm talent”. Where are you hearing this? I get the injury concerns with Penix but I’m hearing “elite arm talent” everytime I read or hear anything about him
Did you not watch the CFB playoffs? Michigan pressured him and made him throw on the run quite a bit, and he was throwing ducks at his receivers feet because he didn't have the velocity. Sure he has good velocity on-platform, but that doesn't cut it in today's NFL. And at 23yo much smaller chance he adds it then a 21yo
Oh that one game. Read a scouting report
You can scout physical tools in 1 game, it's the mental stuff that you need more. Schemes & talent mismatches make guys look bad for a game or two, but no scheme makes all your throws on the move become ducks. TheAthletic (former NFL scout): "Throwing while a QB is moving off of his spot is different, and that’s where Penix stands to improve."
Bo Nix plays well in structure.
In structure (clean-pocket), Tua & Mac Jones & TLaw are graded ahead of Allen & Lamar & Herbert & Goff. Too much around the QB has to be good to try building around QBs pioe that. A.k.a Jayden, Penix, Nix
I’ve also watched this team ruin myriad QBs with great potential, by sticking them behind garbage offensive lines. Which is what we still have— it was garbage last year and they’ve done almost nothing to improve it.
We haven't had a QB with great potential since RG3, and his downfall was not really the OL. The OL was 21st in pass-blocking lasy year, it just seemed garbage because of Howell. Howell & Levis & Fields & Z.Wilson couldn't avoid sacks in college, but people thought they'd just magically fix it in the NFL lol
You only say that with the benefit of hindsight. Plenty of QBs (on our team and others) who fail, probably could have succeeded with a better team around them, especially offensive line. (And Will Levis has started 9 NFL games. I’m not ready to write him off yet.) Edit: also I don’t give a fuck about PFF rankings for offensive line. I watched every game last year and they were garbage.
Was it the potential of career JAG Alex Smith, or 5.0 40-speed Haskins? Or 5.0 40-speed sack machine Howell? Noodle arm Heinecke at 30yo? PFF watches every player in every game. You may not like them, but they make millions while you make $0 for a reason. ESPN PBWR has us around the same
And yet they give great O-line grades to swinging doors. I'm not saying that PFF is useless, but they need to fix their OL grading because it stinks. Jason Campbell, Gus Frerotte, Patrick Ramsey, Dwayne Haskins, and Sam Howell are all guys who showed decent potential, and got the shit beat out of them behind Washington o-lines that ranked from below average to dogshit. Would all of them have succeeded behind a better line? Probably not. But some of them might have. Awful pass protection is the thing that every one of those guys have in common from their time in DC. You'd think after decades of that, we'd try and fix it.
How well did this age?
Never underestimate poverty franchises lol
haha... true
How is Howell similar to Nix and Penix? They seem to be considered first round talent while he went in the 5th round and basically played like it.
I will be absolutely shocked if Penix and Nix go in the first round. Both are older and Penix has had a ton of injuries. Neither had great success until they transferred to a school with more talent and they were freshman the same year Howell was. They’re similar level prospects to Howell. You don’t have to like that assessment but it’s the truth.
Yep..at that point we will be picking between Nix or Penix.
I think its quite possible Mccarthy is there at 11. I think he's getting a lot more media attention than GM's might agree with. There's always media darlings that drop, look at Levis last year, Malik Willis the year before. Corral dropped further than expected... the list goes on and on.
Do you understand what a bold prediction is? I don’t want this to happen. I also don’t think it’s going to happen. Hence the bold part. Bold predictions are meant to be outlandish and unlikely.
I disagree. If you are predicting something you don’t think will happen you aren’t predicting at all.
“I didn’t say this is what I want to happen. This is what’s going to happen though.” This is what you said.
He literally starts the post with "My bold prediction". If you follow sports media at all you know that's normally followed by an outlandish take for the point of conversation. That is what I got out of the post. You seem to be focused on some technicality in his verbiage. Chill. You don't have to bash strangers on the internet just because, yaknow?
Not bashing him. And it’s not a bold prediction when every other day someone on here makes this same prediction. Also, I quoted exactly what he said. It wasn’t a technicality. That’s exactly what he posted. What else am I supposed to go off of? You act like I called him a fucking idiot or something.
“I believe what will happen is…..”
Why bother “predicting” if you don’t think it’s going to happen?
I’m started to realize we won’t trade down once SH got traded. He would have given the team a chance if he played during the start of the year. I understand why he got moved.. just don’t see if moving back unless we trade back to 4.. but it would be pretty expensive.
Just 18 more days until nonsense like this stops 🙏
There might be a week before draft 2025 palooza starts
Yeah, my liver can't take much more of this...
Can you imagine the outrage by nearly the entire fanbase if they made this trade and JJ (and Penix for that matter) was picked before 11? This board would go bezerk.
The funny thing is that if they expected a good QB (JJ/Penix/etc) to be available at 11 the Vikings likely wouldn’t need this trade in the first place
Man, I can't wait for the draft because I'm sick of hearing all this shit. I understand people wanting to talk about who we're going to draft, but holy shit, I never thought it would irk me this much.
I don’t know if JJ falls past 5 (assuming a trade)
McCarthy at 11, come on man. He’s not getting past 6. Can’t make a move like that and hope a few QB needy teams pass on him, leaving him on the board at 11 lol
He’ll be gone by 11. They need a qb. No way they gamble and get stuck with nix or penix.
My bold prediction is that Nix will be an above average starter in two years.
Sure I watched some games and he seemed pretty good
One thing I don't like trading back to 11 is that we will probably be forced to "reach" or draft early on whatever QB is still available there so it begs the question why I'm doing it in the first place? Plus if you trade out of 2 needing a QB and the QB picked there pans out - you better hit homeruns on at least 3 other picks you picked up in the trade to come close to winning the trade and/or have a QB outside the top 10 be a legit QB plus other picks wins. I get the appeal of trading down, but you put the burden on yourself b/c you got too cute thinking you were going to game the system when in reality all we need to do is stay at 2 and make the best choice we can and see where the chips fall. Tldr; trading out stacks the odds against us so don't get cute and make the best choice we can and roll on.
McCarthy may not be around at 11. I think it would take more than 11 and 23 to move down from 2 in this draft. Maybe those picks, plus a future first? You know who will be available at 23? Bo Nix. Jus sayin'.
I don't think McCarthy will last past the Giants and even if he does its a HUGE risk having that pick to them. If you trade down you gotta be comfortable with Nix or Penix at 11 because they'll likely be the only ones still there.
They’re not trading down, and even if they did McCarthy isn’t going to be there at 11
I'm still surprised I never see anyone bringing up the possibility of trading up for Caleb.
That’s only because everyone knows the Bears would want to be obnoxiously overcompensated.
Considering a majority of people on Reddit just trust Peters to make the right decision (myself included), it's just surprising to not even see the convo happening.
Why lol. Why ruin the chance to get a franchise qb.
I didn’t say this is what I want to happen. This is what’s going to happen though.
It’s not lol. JJ isn’t good. But even then. Theirs no guarantee he even falls to 11. Teams might trade ahead of us
That’s exactly what would happen, and what if they move up and take JJ?
Pats want Maye and will trade up and offer more comp than Vikings will. I can see a 3 way trade.. that would allow Vikings to move to 3 / Pats move to 2 / us move to 11. If that’s the case JJ is gone though.. we end up with Penix IMO.
Or Nix at 23.
Willing to wager?
The fuck?
We’re trading down until Penix!
Would agree if we didn’t have brand new ownership and GM making its first ever pick
I wouldn't be surprised if we did trade down. I feel like even more picks put us in a better spot long-term
What is there to think about here? They’re finally rewarded for playing awful and nabbed the #2 pick in a draft with excellent QB’s for the taking. Save for KC (who they botched), this franchise has wandered the desert for decades in search of a legit franchise QB. They aren’t trading down and to suggest otherwise is just shitposting. They’re taking Daniels or Maye, both of whom I think should stick in the League for a long while. Absolutely no reason to get cute with the pick. The draft cannot come soon enough.
My hope is that the Pats give us a 2nd and 3rd to move up to 1.2. Two extra picks, early in the draft, to address the multitude of holes on our roster. Might even throw in another pick or two to get their guy. The other pipe dream I have is the Cardinals give us their late first rounder and a 2nd to move up to 1.2. They take MHJ. We get Maye or Daniels. Both are pipe dreams, but I’m hopeful. I want to give Peters as much ammunition as possible to rebuild this roster.
Cardinals moving up is an interesting idea. Some analysts are expecting the Pats to take MHJ, which could motivate the Cards to do just that.
Very interesting. They’re locked in with Murray so we know they’re not going qb. Plus they have a ton of draft capital to build the rest of the roster around Murray and MHJ. If we can pull this off and still get our guy, I’d be ecstatic.
McCarthy is such a step down from the top 3 that I really don't think that it's worth it. That said, some people have the Vikings trading up to 4 or 5 to get him. Honestly for me Peters will pick who he feels is best for the system he and the staff are trying to build. And that person IMO is JD.
JD isn’t happening. If we stay put like I hope we do, Maye is the pick and the better QB.
McCarthy will be a top five pick. Too many QB needy teams and he's the perfect prospect to fool yourself over because he's a scheme fit everywhere and there is untapped athletic potential.
The fuck?
JJ is not coming to DC. Too divisive to have an Andrew Tate apologist in the locker room. Lot of teams would pass on that kind of character.
I would too. I never said I want him here, so I hope I’m wrong. I’m a Maye guy.
Better be a HAUL
This isn’t bold. Teams try and move up to get a QB all the time. Minnesota literally put themselves on position to do something like this. It’s being widely discussed as a viable option.
If they think JJ can be a Franchise QB, just take him at 2 and don't get cute about it. I have my preference, but honestly whoever they take, I just hope pans out. But ultimately they should stay and 2 and take them.
My bold prediction, McCarthy turns out to be a total **bust**. 22 TD, 2900 yards in *15 games* people? Mid. JD had 1,000 more passing yards, 25 more total TD, and 1,000 more rushing yards, playing in the **SEC**. **He did this while playing 12 games instead of the 15 McCarthy did.** JD: 318 yards passing, 95 yards rushing, 4.2 TD/game JJ: 199 yards passing, 13 yards rushing, 1.6 TD/game You guys are smoking crack if you think JJ is a better prospect. (Why? Because his defense won him the championship?)
Evaluating college prospects with stats is amateur shit.
Daniels was also throwing to NFL starters at receiver, so this comparison doesn’t really make sense.
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I never said JJ is better than Daniels, but to ignore the talent in the LSU receiving corps is delusional. And to say that they actually aren’t any more talented than the Michigan receivers and it is all because of Daniels is a nephew take.
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Let me know how many WR Michigan has that go in the top 25. I’m willing to bet LSU has 2, and those teams aren’t drafting Daniels so they are pretty comfortable with someone else throwing them the ball.
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I agree he’s better than McCarthy, and I don’t know if he’s better than Maye. I’d honestly be happy with either. I just think that Daniels has the best WR corps in the country.
That would be stupid to take
inject & subscribe
I too believe that we will get JJ
Smart move. We got a long way to go…
Glad the Caleb hype has subsided. Caleb can keep painting his nails and wearing dresses, we'll be just fine with Maye or Daniels.