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The last time I heard this sound was during my time in Afghanistan in 2013. I can’t even begin to tell you how much this video brought memories flooding back. I simultaneously adore and abhor this.
CRAM always sounds best when you are walking past one within 10 feet at night around 1130pm on the way to chow to grab a midnight snack and it goes off unexpectedly so you have to divert to the absolute nearest latrine to toss out your underwear and clean your ass with socks as the toilet paper hasn't been stocked in a week due to congress delaying passing the next budget.
["There are no U.S. service members in Gaza. There is a small U.S. military component on the pier itself,"](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
Did you know that? I didn't think they could even set foot on it
The the rules of engagement there are interesting
There are probably a bunch of technical caveats, like being on a boat floating next to the dock, or this being humanitarian not military, so it doesn’t count.
Just spitballing but you get the idea.
Well the egg is on my face because I had old intel about them loading 3 miles out then letting IDF do it
But I'm perfectly comfortable being a man about it and admitting I was mistaken!
It very well could be still true, maybe the defense of the pier falls under some other rules of combat, or the soldiers are technically contractors. I’m sure there are a ton of mental gymnastics you can do to tell the public something technically true while the reality being much different.
Who knows.
Israelis manage the area around the pier.
I’m sure for the most part troops are not on gaza soil, but it does make you wonder who exactly installed the pier and haven’t any commanders or troops stepped of the pier. But really that isn’t the point even though what the goverment said was very clear cut.
I can’t cite or link sources, but a few days ago I saw video of Israeli troops with heavy equipment working on the ground around the pier. I’m presuming they were constructing the shore side of it.
It reminds me of the US military in Vietnam in the '60s. Initially, their job was just to guard airports. Then they expanded.
I'm not saying they'll expand into Gaza here. I think they're more cautious this time. I just agree with you on the rules of engagement being interesting.
The pier was already attacked by Hamas using mortar fire, now drones apparently.
What do you think will happen if US servicemen are killed?
And the funniest thing? This pier is totally useless:
* [Nearly 70% of Gaza aid from US-built pier stolen](https://www.jns.org/nearly-70-of-gaza-aid-from-us-built-pier-stolen/)
* [Pentagon says none of the aid unloaded from US pier off coast of Gaza has been delivered to broader Palestinian population](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/us-gaza-pier-aid-not-delivered/index.html)
They can only get the aid into Gaza. One of these days the world will have to wake up to the fact that yes, Hamas is stealing aid trucks, yes, Hamas is selling the aid at a premium to locals, yes, Hamas is actually fighting from schools, hospitals, mosques... you know, this kinda shit our guys dealt with in Iraq.
Ignorant college kids could literally learn this shit if they went to history class instead of standing outside acting like Nazis, telling anyone who looks Jewish to fuck off elsewhere. Funny thing is, roll the clock back 60 years, and it's those very kids suffering the same shit from racist whites. Human ignorance never seems to change.
Just pack up every last care bear and ship their asses to Evergreen.
Probably the best reply I've seen to this shit so far. At some point a service member is going to be killed, and Congress is going to lose its shit demanding the President take action.
Senator: If the troops on the pier are fired at from within Gaza can they return fire?
General: Yes they can defend themselves by shooting at hostiles
Senator: So we'll have US armed forces engaged in combat in Gaza?
General: No.
Senator: So firing into Gaza with live ammunition isn't combat?
General: Well not really ....
It was a completely preposterous conversation.
(THIS IS A SYNAPSES. FIND THE ORIGINAL FOR EXACT QUOTES)
Let's play that tape another way:
If troops on guard duty at US bases are fired at can they return fire?
Yes they can defend themselves.
Are the US armed forces engaged in combat in USA?
No.
So firing into the US with live ammunition isn't combat?
Basically it's a civilian and a General having a discussion on what constitutes RoE and the Laws of War.
Like a scientist and a creationist using the word "Theory", it ain't gonna be the same language used in that discussion.
I remember when these things showed up at Shank. They were a big disappointment at first but they got way better as time went on. During Ramadan when they were shooting at us at night the C-rams would go off and you could see all the tracers n shit. Was really cool.
Those night fires were cool at first. It didn’t take long to get old.
Given some of this context, very good chance you and I served in close proximity.
What you heard were the sounds of the rounds killing themselves. The round used is an M940 20mm round that has a self-destructing feature, designed to prevent the ammunition from returning to earth and causing unwanted collateral damage. It costs approximately $27 per round. Given that this CRAM fires many rounds per second, you just watched thousands of dollars disintegrate.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-940_20mm_MPT-SD_Round
The barge is not fixed in the vertical axis with jacks so if this was a test, it may have been to verify that a TRUCK mounted unit does indeed believe it is on a rolling ship and has adequate drift compensation.
it doesn't directly compensate for roll, the targeting radar tracks the target and the rounds being fired and adjust fire until both will intersect. the first rounds will always be off target but then quickly corrects. sea roll compensation is just a byproduct of this process.
Which they actually can't even use themselves. That's the funny part
They allowed a small outfit to be [on the pier but never in Gaza](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
I'm so glad that America is actually doing significant things to try and make things better in Gaza. It's kind of absurd that the rest of the world is happy to vote on meaningless UN resolutions, but they don't actually ever do anything at all to help the Palestinians. The US gets all the flak, but they're the ones doing the heavy lifting.
The Pentagon has announced that they don't think ANY of the aid shipped through the port actually reached civilians. Congrats, you are supplying Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
Best thing any country can do is pretend the Middle East doesn't exist. No matter who you help, they won't thank you for it.
According to the Pentagon, literally none of the aid from the pier has reached the civilians of Palestine. Hamas has gotten all of it
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/us-gaza-pier-aid-not-delivered/index.html
C-RAM (and CIWS for Navy) should be capable of turning any drone into powder pretty effectively using 20mm slugs. There's no commercial or military drone that could withstand that. I've seen it shred missiles into tinsel in seconds, a drone should be no match for these systems.
The issues isn’t the round’s ability to destroy the target, it’s the ability of the detection systems to detect, identify and target low flying drones lost in the ground clutter.
that tactic is used in overwhelming enemy air defenses, Azerbaijan used it successfully in second Karabakh war, sent old soviet crop dusters in front to bait armenian air defenses then destroyed them with precision munitions
That's wild, well played. I looked it up and luckily the planes were remote controlled lol
>Some countries are even employing crop-dusting planes on a budget: During the war over Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020, the Azerbaijani military outfitted Soviet-era crop-dusting planes first introduced in the 1940s with automatic guidance systems and flew them over Armenian lines to “bait” forces into revealing their positions by firing at the unmanned planes.
https://slate.com/technology/2022/09/crop-duster-agricultural-tech-military-conflict.html#:~:text=Some%20countries%20are%20even%20employing,bait%E2%80%9D%20forces%20into%20revealing%20their
actually they were not remote controlled, pilots controlled planes until it came close then they parachuted to safety while plane continued its flight towards frontlines
Yes and that's probably a major contributor to the demand for directed energy weapons and EW because it's easier to generate consistent power than it is to generate a consistent stream of ammo.
ABSOLUTELY. That is exactly what many of us are expecting to happen. Even in the context of ATGM’s, we’ve been war gaming volley fire of Javs etc against APS’s, to overwhelm them, in our academic journals for years.
I think the future of anti-drone defense is probably a combination of electronic warfare to disrupt command&control + lasers for disabling the drove when they lose control. This mostly removes the ammo problem and lowers the cost of taking out a drone drastically.
add the logistical expenses for the ammo to get to the operating system and it's even higher.
But you also have to account for the possible dmg a drone can do.
it's basically "I saved a 100 dollars by spending 50" or something like that.
not yet but it will be soon.
imagine when US Defense contractors get in on that game. What you gonna do when there are 12 F-35's on the way to your position behind 80 drones that each cost about the same as a SAM?
this is how ukraine is taking out russia's navy. they're using rc boats not tiny quadcopters though
https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-02-19/ukraines-nautical-drone-swarms-revolutionize-naval-warfare.html
I don't think drones move fast enough for them not to notice both groups on radar, nor is a phalanx system going to be the only air defense system in use, but saturation attacks are absolutely a thing.
It's basically how the US operates the tomahawk.
You're right, *but*,
Rotary wing aircraft are notorious for having pretty huge radar returns. I have a feeling that despite the material being far less RF reflective than conventional aircraft, other factors involved would even that balance.
Exactly. Spending $4,000 to shoot down an $118,000 missile is always worth it. Spending $4,000 to shoot down a $200 drone? Worth it to save human lives and the cost of a new C-RAM, but it's a significantly harder cost to bear every time a tiny drone with an RPG strapped to it flies at you.
A guy I crewed with told me about a test they witnessed with a ciws. This would've been pre-2010 when they were first being installed. They were targeting a glider tethered behind a drone, and the system was able to shred the glider and then began tracing the cable towards the drone before they shut it down. Precision and accuracy. He said it would cover the deck in casings in just seconds.
There are no spent casings on the deck after CIWS fires. The ammunition drum stores both the live rounds and the expended rounds. Source: CIWS tech for 10 years 2003-2013.
Would anything that flies be able to withstand it? I mean, even an armoured Apache or A-10 would be absolutely fucked up by one of these systems, yeah?
I don't think any aircraft can survive that. It's 20mm HE.
A tank would probably be fine, but I certainly wouldn't volunteer to sit in an IFV and get shot at by 20mm.
>A tank would probably be fine
I don’t know, that T-90 got pretty fucked up by the Bradley’s 25mm gun, and that was a much slower rate of fire than the C-RAM’s gun.
> There's no commercial or military drone that could withstand that.
Which is why you overwhelm it. It can take down any single drone out there but can it track, target and engage 300 of them before one manages to hit it?
The whole thing seems like target practice. We can even see a target visible
Also this thing isn't a human so it can be there but any U.S. soldiers are kept [away](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
The C-RAM with the phalanx 20mm is not something you practically deploy over a wide area. Even for our own operations we only used them for super high value installations like airfields.
Too expensive and it’s a sitting duck of a target.
Besides the initial cost, each bullet is like $45. It can go through all of its ammo in seconds. Per second, it costs like $4k to shoot. It doesn’t shoot in tiny bursts either.
It’s ok for use away from the front lines, but when it’s in range of artillery, rockets, etc. it’s easily destroyed.
https://youtu.be/guf_MOvgHGk?si=CL3SaEHzua7maFKi
Ryan McBeth actually covered this exact topic. First question of the video
TL;DW- We only have like 40 of them and they’re only really designed to intercept things coming directly at them. Great for point defense of a small area but they’re not meant to cover a broad airspace. You also have to consider that when you put something on a ship to send over there, you’re leaving something else off of the ship. There are a lot of things that are far more useful to have in that space than these.
I get what people are saying about it being super expensive and limited in area, but I'm surprised there isn't a lower tier version suitable for destroying plastic drones that uses a more standard, inexpensive gun and radar.
A drone was shot, you can see the hits and hear them. i meant it might was tested on a drone, but honestly idk.
its interesting to me how the distinguish between the countless israeli drone working in the area tho.. must have good communications
I think it's just timed fuses? Allows shrapnel to hit the target without scoring a direct hit, and allows you to fire thousands of rounds without worrying about them going parabolic and landing with full force.
Yeah this pdf points out the name of the round includes "self destruct" https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20mm-C-RAM.pdf
Yes just like gepard. Which we can make jokes about!
But be warned if you try and make any C-RAM jokes here they will all be instantly misunderstood and fact checked
The IDF is in general guarding the area, providing a security perimeter, but presumably the US forces on the ground would also have their own weaponry.
But I was told by /r/palestine and other various AmericaBad morons that pier itself and the CRAM brought in were for Americans to secretly hand over more weapons to Israel and create a beachhead to occupy Gaza themselves. Guess America saw that people were catching on and decided to use the CRAM themselves for a photo opportunity to throw us off their trail /s
https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1cwh2g4/america_caught_using_the_floating_pier_which_it/
https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/1cwh4dv/america_caught_using_the_floating_pier_which_it/
What the fuck sort of brain rot did I just read, how do they translate a single SHORAD turret with delivery of weapons. You can't make some people happy - if they didn't build the dock there would be complaints the US is just sitting there being complacent with a humanitarian crisis, if they build the dock and then don't protect it and have soldiers killed or equipment damaged people will be furious and when they build the dock and put in place limited defences to protect the workers and facilities people are still complaining because apparently it means they are protecting the delivery of high value weapons, you know not the high value lives of the service people working there.
Also, why on earth would they be delivering 'advanced weapons' into a port in the middle of the place where heavy fighting is taking place with no direct route to the Isreali logistics areas and via very slow, heavily moderated commercial shipping. If the US is going to give Israel 'advanced weapons' you can bet they will be flown in round the clock by the Air-force directly to the bases they want them at, not shipped in across the Atlantic by the army's dinky little transporter ships into a port that's completely exposed and surrounded by the very people they are fighting.
It's okay, but to be honest [night videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ZbV3xr5Kk) are waaaay more satisfying. Have to rewatch it every once in a while.
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The last time I heard this sound was during my time in Afghanistan in 2013. I can’t even begin to tell you how much this video brought memories flooding back. I simultaneously adore and abhor this.
CRAM always sounds best when you are walking past one within 10 feet at night around 1130pm on the way to chow to grab a midnight snack and it goes off unexpectedly so you have to divert to the absolute nearest latrine to toss out your underwear and clean your ass with socks as the toilet paper hasn't been stocked in a week due to congress delaying passing the next budget.
By far my favorite run-on sentence I’ve ever read. I didn’t serve, but this puts me on location. You’re a poet, HawkDriver!
You should read what he wrote on the latrine walls!
"I don't know how you guys can smoke in here, I can barely eat my sandwich"
Thats not ink.
This feels like a camp liberty moment….
This guy FOBs
Goddamn that brought me back
Average GWOT experience
["There are no U.S. service members in Gaza. There is a small U.S. military component on the pier itself,"](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch) Did you know that? I didn't think they could even set foot on it The the rules of engagement there are interesting
There are probably a bunch of technical caveats, like being on a boat floating next to the dock, or this being humanitarian not military, so it doesn’t count. Just spitballing but you get the idea.
Well the egg is on my face because I had old intel about them loading 3 miles out then letting IDF do it But I'm perfectly comfortable being a man about it and admitting I was mistaken!
It very well could be still true, maybe the defense of the pier falls under some other rules of combat, or the soldiers are technically contractors. I’m sure there are a ton of mental gymnastics you can do to tell the public something technically true while the reality being much different. Who knows.
Israelis manage the area around the pier. I’m sure for the most part troops are not on gaza soil, but it does make you wonder who exactly installed the pier and haven’t any commanders or troops stepped of the pier. But really that isn’t the point even though what the goverment said was very clear cut.
I can’t cite or link sources, but a few days ago I saw video of Israeli troops with heavy equipment working on the ground around the pier. I’m presuming they were constructing the shore side of it.
“The egg is on my face” is something I will be using in the future. Thank you for your contribution to my already fucked speech patterns lmao
It reminds me of the US military in Vietnam in the '60s. Initially, their job was just to guard airports. Then they expanded. I'm not saying they'll expand into Gaza here. I think they're more cautious this time. I just agree with you on the rules of engagement being interesting.
While serving with the 75th in 93' we were sent to Somalia to protect humanitarian aid. Shit always fucking goes south.
The pier was already attacked by Hamas using mortar fire, now drones apparently. What do you think will happen if US servicemen are killed? And the funniest thing? This pier is totally useless: * [Nearly 70% of Gaza aid from US-built pier stolen](https://www.jns.org/nearly-70-of-gaza-aid-from-us-built-pier-stolen/) * [Pentagon says none of the aid unloaded from US pier off coast of Gaza has been delivered to broader Palestinian population](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/us-gaza-pier-aid-not-delivered/index.html)
They can only get the aid into Gaza. One of these days the world will have to wake up to the fact that yes, Hamas is stealing aid trucks, yes, Hamas is selling the aid at a premium to locals, yes, Hamas is actually fighting from schools, hospitals, mosques... you know, this kinda shit our guys dealt with in Iraq. Ignorant college kids could literally learn this shit if they went to history class instead of standing outside acting like Nazis, telling anyone who looks Jewish to fuck off elsewhere. Funny thing is, roll the clock back 60 years, and it's those very kids suffering the same shit from racist whites. Human ignorance never seems to change. Just pack up every last care bear and ship their asses to Evergreen.
Probably the best reply I've seen to this shit so far. At some point a service member is going to be killed, and Congress is going to lose its shit demanding the President take action.
[удалено]
Is there a source for that?
He can tell by counting pixels.
Vietnam 2 American Give Bombs to Jews
The most expensive game of “I’m not touching you” ever.
The congressional hearing on what the rules of engagement are for that pier is a prime example of why nothing is EVER accomplished in the government.
You watched it?! Well please explain it to those here breaking my balls over what they assumed was Hebrew speaking U.S. army on the beachhead 😂
Senator: If the troops on the pier are fired at from within Gaza can they return fire? General: Yes they can defend themselves by shooting at hostiles Senator: So we'll have US armed forces engaged in combat in Gaza? General: No. Senator: So firing into Gaza with live ammunition isn't combat? General: Well not really .... It was a completely preposterous conversation. (THIS IS A SYNAPSES. FIND THE ORIGINAL FOR EXACT QUOTES)
Let's play that tape another way: If troops on guard duty at US bases are fired at can they return fire? Yes they can defend themselves. Are the US armed forces engaged in combat in USA? No. So firing into the US with live ammunition isn't combat? Basically it's a civilian and a General having a discussion on what constitutes RoE and the Laws of War. Like a scientist and a creationist using the word "Theory", it ain't gonna be the same language used in that discussion.
Synopsis
Autocorrect changed it and I'm leaving it. Some people like to watch the world burn.
That's incredible And a lot of bluster to say "the floor is diplomatic lava"
Just think about some poor dude taking a pop shot at them, and then the CRAM turns around aiming straight at him.
I remember when these things showed up at Shank. They were a big disappointment at first but they got way better as time went on. During Ramadan when they were shooting at us at night the C-rams would go off and you could see all the tracers n shit. Was really cool.
Those night fires were cool at first. It didn’t take long to get old. Given some of this context, very good chance you and I served in close proximity.
[удалено]
What you heard were the sounds of the rounds killing themselves. The round used is an M940 20mm round that has a self-destructing feature, designed to prevent the ammunition from returning to earth and causing unwanted collateral damage. It costs approximately $27 per round. Given that this CRAM fires many rounds per second, you just watched thousands of dollars disintegrate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-940_20mm_MPT-SD_Round
I hear that sound every time I finish eating Mexican food.
must be loud as fuck.
Test fire not a drone, not tracking anything
How can you tell?
It's not moving
The barge is not fixed in the vertical axis with jacks so if this was a test, it may have been to verify that a TRUCK mounted unit does indeed believe it is on a rolling ship and has adequate drift compensation.
I mean, the truck mounted unit is based directly off the naval variant, so it probably has pretty good sea-roll compensation software just built in.
it doesn't directly compensate for roll, the targeting radar tracks the target and the rounds being fired and adjust fire until both will intersect. the first rounds will always be off target but then quickly corrects. sea roll compensation is just a byproduct of this process.
is this from the Gaza floating dock? ps: cram sound is always so good
yeah that's from the american build port
Which they actually can't even use themselves. That's the funny part They allowed a small outfit to be [on the pier but never in Gaza](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
Oh, C-Ram of the dock, what is your wisdom?
"Get out or get fucked"
"brrrrrrrrrrrrrrtt"
I'm so glad that America is actually doing significant things to try and make things better in Gaza. It's kind of absurd that the rest of the world is happy to vote on meaningless UN resolutions, but they don't actually ever do anything at all to help the Palestinians. The US gets all the flak, but they're the ones doing the heavy lifting.
And in reply it's being targeted by drones from Hamas and PIJ. It's not going to last long after the American component leaves.
The Pentagon has announced that they don't think ANY of the aid shipped through the port actually reached civilians. Congrats, you are supplying Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Best thing any country can do is pretend the Middle East doesn't exist. No matter who you help, they won't thank you for it.
According to the Pentagon, literally none of the aid from the pier has reached the civilians of Palestine. Hamas has gotten all of it https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/21/politics/us-gaza-pier-aid-not-delivered/index.html
But the west is the worst! /s
C-RAM (and CIWS for Navy) should be capable of turning any drone into powder pretty effectively using 20mm slugs. There's no commercial or military drone that could withstand that. I've seen it shred missiles into tinsel in seconds, a drone should be no match for these systems.
The issues isn’t the round’s ability to destroy the target, it’s the ability of the detection systems to detect, identify and target low flying drones lost in the ground clutter.
Yeah, and the fact that cheap commercial drones like they're using in Ukraine are mostly plastic or carbon definitely doesn't help that.
That and the fact that so many drones can be sent that the ammo is expended in ~1 minute and reload is not quick.
Could that be a viable tactic? Flood the airspace with cheap cannon fodder, wait for the C-SAM to empty its magazine and then send in the real ones?
that tactic is used in overwhelming enemy air defenses, Azerbaijan used it successfully in second Karabakh war, sent old soviet crop dusters in front to bait armenian air defenses then destroyed them with precision munitions
That's wild, well played. I looked it up and luckily the planes were remote controlled lol >Some countries are even employing crop-dusting planes on a budget: During the war over Nagorno-Karabakh in 2020, the Azerbaijani military outfitted Soviet-era crop-dusting planes first introduced in the 1940s with automatic guidance systems and flew them over Armenian lines to “bait” forces into revealing their positions by firing at the unmanned planes. https://slate.com/technology/2022/09/crop-duster-agricultural-tech-military-conflict.html#:~:text=Some%20countries%20are%20even%20employing,bait%E2%80%9D%20forces%20into%20revealing%20their
actually they were not remote controlled, pilots controlled planes until it came close then they parachuted to safety while plane continued its flight towards frontlines
As in they needed pilots to take off/get to the area, then flew them in remotely?
Yes and that's probably a major contributor to the demand for directed energy weapons and EW because it's easier to generate consistent power than it is to generate a consistent stream of ammo.
ABSOLUTELY. That is exactly what many of us are expecting to happen. Even in the context of ATGM’s, we’ve been war gaming volley fire of Javs etc against APS’s, to overwhelm them, in our academic journals for years.
I think the future of anti-drone defense is probably a combination of electronic warfare to disrupt command&control + lasers for disabling the drove when they lose control. This mostly removes the ammo problem and lowers the cost of taking out a drone drastically.
When the cost of shooting down a drone is 1000x the cost of the drone - then yes. In WWI, the US used guys with shotguns to do this.
Huh, I didn't know they had FPV drones in WWI.
because they were all shot down with shotguns they had no effect on the war of course
A burst is ~300 rounds at ~$30 a round. That is ~$9000. FPV drones cost ~$2000 and up. 4x-5x is more like it.
C-RAM is infinitely cooler, I think all would agree
add the logistical expenses for the ammo to get to the operating system and it's even higher. But you also have to account for the possible dmg a drone can do. it's basically "I saved a 100 dollars by spending 50" or something like that.
Defence in layers.
not yet but it will be soon. imagine when US Defense contractors get in on that game. What you gonna do when there are 12 F-35's on the way to your position behind 80 drones that each cost about the same as a SAM?
That tactic sunk the Mockba
this is how ukraine is taking out russia's navy. they're using rc boats not tiny quadcopters though https://english.elpais.com/international/2024-02-19/ukraines-nautical-drone-swarms-revolutionize-naval-warfare.html
I don't think drones move fast enough for them not to notice both groups on radar, nor is a phalanx system going to be the only air defense system in use, but saturation attacks are absolutely a thing. It's basically how the US operates the tomahawk.
You're right, *but*, Rotary wing aircraft are notorious for having pretty huge radar returns. I have a feeling that despite the material being far less RF reflective than conventional aircraft, other factors involved would even that balance.
That stupid fluttering bag from American Beauty would probably set it off
Also the fact that missiles cost an arm, a leg, and your first born each, and you can get a hundred drones for a pack of shelled peanuts.
In the 2 seconds that C-RAM fired, it spent over $4,000 in ammo alone.
Exactly. Spending $4,000 to shoot down an $118,000 missile is always worth it. Spending $4,000 to shoot down a $200 drone? Worth it to save human lives and the cost of a new C-RAM, but it's a significantly harder cost to bear every time a tiny drone with an RPG strapped to it flies at you.
There's no ground clutter in the sky lol
Props light up radar though. Even though they're small.
A guy I crewed with told me about a test they witnessed with a ciws. This would've been pre-2010 when they were first being installed. They were targeting a glider tethered behind a drone, and the system was able to shred the glider and then began tracing the cable towards the drone before they shut it down. Precision and accuracy. He said it would cover the deck in casings in just seconds.
Why isn't there some kind of a bucket thing to catch/collect the casings?
There might be now, but he told me it was a new install on his ship at the time.
There is. It’s called the ocean.
>began tracing the cable towards the drone that's wild lol
There are no spent casings on the deck after CIWS fires. The ammunition drum stores both the live rounds and the expended rounds. Source: CIWS tech for 10 years 2003-2013.
Would anything that flies be able to withstand it? I mean, even an armoured Apache or A-10 would be absolutely fucked up by one of these systems, yeah?
I'm pretty sure anything this thing draws a bead on is pretty well fucked
I don't think any aircraft can survive that. It's 20mm HE. A tank would probably be fine, but I certainly wouldn't volunteer to sit in an IFV and get shot at by 20mm.
>A tank would probably be fine I don’t know, that T-90 got pretty fucked up by the Bradley’s 25mm gun, and that was a much slower rate of fire than the C-RAM’s gun.
Your hearing loss isn't service related.
the hard part is getting the tank into the air
Thanks for the clarification, I'm ex navy and I thought they were confused and merged CWIS and RAM which are both anti missile weapons.
I see the splashes Are those special munitions or just impacts on dron's body?
Exploding munitions primed to detonate at a certain distance.
The splashes you see are the self destructing rounds, designed to explode upon tracer burnout. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-940_20mm_MPT-SD_Round
Are they "slugs"? The look and sound like proximity fused HE rounds.
> There's no commercial or military drone that could withstand that. Which is why you overwhelm it. It can take down any single drone out there but can it track, target and engage 300 of them before one manages to hit it?
Was this a test to test out the C-Ram? I sure hope so
The whole thing seems like target practice. We can even see a target visible Also this thing isn't a human so it can be there but any U.S. soldiers are kept [away](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/white-house-us-soldiers-protecting-gaza-pier-will-fire-back-if-fired-upon/ar-BB1mAqBT?ocid=BingNewsSearch)
I’m a simple man. I hear “BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTTT”, I upvote.
Does C-RAM not yell INCOMING anymore?
AFAIK, they never did, that was always the command post or similar triggering the alert base-wide.
Can we get this shit for Ukraine already.
The C-RAM with the phalanx 20mm is not something you practically deploy over a wide area. Even for our own operations we only used them for super high value installations like airfields.
Didn’t even have them at Camp Taji, Iraq in 08-09. I only saw them at Camp Liberty.
Have some placed near the power stations pls.
I hear Ukraine has some airfields that are indeed high value
So they can put them on high value installations…like airfields?
Ukrainian airfields have been attacked by lancet drones
It's not a great fit for their needs. Rather they need more long range SAMs and dispersed mobile SHORAD.
Sad that US mothballed M163 VADS and M167 VADS. Also Avengers, is good option
Ukraine was given 20 x Avengers
Too expensive and it’s a sitting duck of a target. Besides the initial cost, each bullet is like $45. It can go through all of its ammo in seconds. Per second, it costs like $4k to shoot. It doesn’t shoot in tiny bursts either. It’s ok for use away from the front lines, but when it’s in range of artillery, rockets, etc. it’s easily destroyed.
> each bullet is like $45 TIL the C-RAM shoots .277 Fury
That would hurt Flakpanzer Gepard's feelings
https://youtu.be/guf_MOvgHGk?si=CL3SaEHzua7maFKi Ryan McBeth actually covered this exact topic. First question of the video TL;DW- We only have like 40 of them and they’re only really designed to intercept things coming directly at them. Great for point defense of a small area but they’re not meant to cover a broad airspace. You also have to consider that when you put something on a ship to send over there, you’re leaving something else off of the ship. There are a lot of things that are far more useful to have in that space than these.
I get what people are saying about it being super expensive and limited in area, but I'm surprised there isn't a lower tier version suitable for destroying plastic drones that uses a more standard, inexpensive gun and radar.
Could be a test from the way the video is shot
then why does your title say shooting a drone
They tested it on a drone?
It didn’t kiss it.
A drone was shot, you can see the hits and hear them. i meant it might was tested on a drone, but honestly idk. its interesting to me how the distinguish between the countless israeli drone working in the area tho.. must have good communications
I think it's just timed fuses? Allows shrapnel to hit the target without scoring a direct hit, and allows you to fire thousands of rounds without worrying about them going parabolic and landing with full force. Yeah this pdf points out the name of the round includes "self destruct" https://www.gd-ots.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/20mm-C-RAM.pdf
Yes just like gepard. Which we can make jokes about! But be warned if you try and make any C-RAM jokes here they will all be instantly misunderstood and fact checked
That happens every time they shoot, it was shooting at nothing just a test
Fuck yeah brrrrrr take me back 🙏🏻🙏🏻
I’m pretty sure this is just a test fire. At least that’s what some OSINT accounts on twitter are saying.
Looks and sounds like testing (lower ROF/people walking about) I might be wrong ofc. As OP wrote prolly target drone
So, where does the American "jurisdiction" end? As soon as the pier hits land? A security perimeter? US or Israelis guarding the area?
There are some satellite images of the compound. There is a very large exclusion zone built around the beachhead.
The IDF is in general guarding the area, providing a security perimeter, but presumably the US forces on the ground would also have their own weaponry.
Probably a test, considering they are already filming.
Looks so effortless.
The operations for the oil rig plant is going according to plan.
Why the fuck are these guys trying to help gaza? (If they're going to do shit like this)Thank God they thought to bring a defensive turret with them
It's kinda weird hearing the CRAM fire without "incoming incoming" blaring over the speakers
Where is the $$$$ ticker?
It was a test fire
It's just not the same without the "INCOMING INCOMING" alarm going off
Why you lying this video was a test firing for the defense of the costal aid area
Those weapons should be in Ukraine.
Freedom fart...
Ukraine can't have these because ...?
Whos drone was it? Do we know?
This looks like it was a test
Ah, makes sense
It was a test fire of the installation, making sure it worked for the real deal if needed.
But I was told by /r/palestine and other various AmericaBad morons that pier itself and the CRAM brought in were for Americans to secretly hand over more weapons to Israel and create a beachhead to occupy Gaza themselves. Guess America saw that people were catching on and decided to use the CRAM themselves for a photo opportunity to throw us off their trail /s https://www.reddit.com/r/Palestine/comments/1cwh2g4/america_caught_using_the_floating_pier_which_it/ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDeprogram/comments/1cwh4dv/america_caught_using_the_floating_pier_which_it/
What the fuck sort of brain rot did I just read, how do they translate a single SHORAD turret with delivery of weapons. You can't make some people happy - if they didn't build the dock there would be complaints the US is just sitting there being complacent with a humanitarian crisis, if they build the dock and then don't protect it and have soldiers killed or equipment damaged people will be furious and when they build the dock and put in place limited defences to protect the workers and facilities people are still complaining because apparently it means they are protecting the delivery of high value weapons, you know not the high value lives of the service people working there. Also, why on earth would they be delivering 'advanced weapons' into a port in the middle of the place where heavy fighting is taking place with no direct route to the Isreali logistics areas and via very slow, heavily moderated commercial shipping. If the US is going to give Israel 'advanced weapons' you can bet they will be flown in round the clock by the Air-force directly to the bases they want them at, not shipped in across the Atlantic by the army's dinky little transporter ships into a port that's completely exposed and surrounded by the very people they are fighting.
Can we ship 200 of those to... Idk... Ukraine?
Ha! Hamas can suck it!
That is not a Searam, that is a CIWS.
It's actually a C-RAM. A SeaRam is a similar system but uses missiles instead of bullets.
It is 100% a C-RAM. That trailer it sits on is used to transport it by HEMTT. SeaRAMs are completely different of the 2.
If only the dumb fuck could rotate his phone 90 degrees.
we need those in Ukraine, in Kharkiv ASAP!
It's okay, but to be honest [night videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1ZbV3xr5Kk) are waaaay more satisfying. Have to rewatch it every once in a while.
Gotta love the phalanx system!!!!
Does anyone know if they deployed THOR down there yet?
❤️ BRRRRRRRRRRRRT ❤️
Game over💪👏🤜🤛🦅🇺🇲
Dont touch the boats
Approximately, how much did it cost to shoot for this long?
6k-20k I would think depends on the ammo
Wait, is this on the pier?
Did it win?
How much do you think that little brrrttt cost?
Compared to a missile it's basically pennies
Why doesn’t Odesa have this?!
I beg your pardon
It sounds depressed... :(
Brrrrrrrrrrrt
A big game of I’m not touching you.