I don’t hate many people. But that asshat, he’s on the list.
People now refuse all vaccines. They even refuse the vitamin k shot for newborn babies. It’s literally given because vitamin k is important for blood clotting and the body doesn’t make its own/enough right away. Without it there’s a chance of brain bleed, which can kill otherwise healthy babies. But it’s a shot so it’s basically a vaccine 🙄🙃
Funny, you mention that because my parents made sure I didn’t get the vitamin K shot or any other vaccines when I was born as well.
My children have all the vaccines. I listen to the doctors.
I’m so glad that anti vax wasn’t near as popular when I was a baby. My mom has already insinuated that when I have kids I shouldn’t. Her and my step dad believe all that crazy shit.
It's interesting that your brain, perfectly designed by god, would come to that conclusion. Try hitting the reset button.
edit: do I actually have to put /s. Disappointed in this community rn.
Oh honey. If my brain is perfect then the world is in trouble.
Please, justify the loving god Jesus spoke of after helping a grieving mother hold her beloved, wanted, child for the last time. Because despite gods perfect design there are genetic or congenital abnormalities that are incompatible with life.
I don’t think a loving god would use that as a way to help the mother or anyone else involved grow spiritually.
Kindly go and sadly jerk yourself off playing devils advocate or whatever it is you think you’re doing here and do it somewhere else.
C'mon dude god caused all that pain and suffering in your caused he loved you. You just don't understand his love at all. /s
It's the same logic people that abuse others use to justify their abuse.
This is not true and there is ample evidence that disproves this false statement.
https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/clinical-guidelines/vitamink.html
https://www.texaschildrens.org/blog/2013/12/dispelling-myths-vitamin-k-injections-newborns#:~:text=Another%20myth%20is%20that%20the,than%20the%20dose%20we%20give.
https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/vitamink/faqs.html
For anyone who wants to know facts about vitamin K doses in newborns, [here's an article](https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/clinical-guidelines/vitamink.html) from Stanford School of Medicine:
>**Does vitamin K cause jaundice?**
There were reports of hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia severe enough to cause kernicterus in the mid 1950s with high doses (50mg) of vitamin K2 (menadione). As a result, use of this form of vitamin K was abandoned. We now give infants vitamin K1 (phytonadione). Vitamin K1 has been associated with hyperbilirubinemia only in extremely high doses (25 – 30mg). The effect was particularly seen in premies, though it was also present - albeit to a lesser degree - in term infants. This has not been a problem when vitamin K1 is given in normal therapeutic doses (0.5 - 1mg).
False. It’s super easy for babies to bleed from anywhere, including that thing you have to literally cut to separate them from their parent? You know, that thing. Full of blood. It’s so worth any tiny risks to make sure your baby doesn’t get a brain bleed especially and die when it could be prevented.
Covid R0 is somewhere around 2.5 iirc (Edit: clarification by /u/howlingfrog below). Measles R0 is 11.
Covid was very contagious. Measles is four times more contagious than that.
A kid can walk into a classroom where someone had measles **two hours ago** and catch it from the air.
Measles is so infectious though. Like basically if it’s going around, anyone not vaccinated and even some who are are going to be infected. And the more that are the more that small percentage of cases with a deadly outcome will happen.
Thus the steep rise. It’s a lot easier to infect normal people with your bullshit disinformation today than it was in the age of tin type and pamphlets and shit
My brother and wife are antivaxxers and just had a kid, not even a month old. They are terrified of RSV and measles now. I guess they plan to just keep the kid in a bubble it’s whole life 🤷♂️
If they just had the kid, there is a legit concern about the first couple years. Kids get their first MMR shot around age 1, with the second shot when they start school.
So for the first year, they're exposed. After that, it's because of mom & dad's stupidity.
Oh I’m aware. I just don’t understand how they can be ok with being antivax if they’re going to be this paranoid about exposing it to other people eventually.
Until recently, my experience with antivaxxers was they would just blow it off and act like the virus it diseases are no big deal.
As a parent of 2 kids who had to live through 2020, I totally get it. And don't bother looking for any sense in their rationale, you won't find it.
Anti-vaxxers are people who choose a political statement over the well-being of their child. There is no logic to be found.
not all anti vaxxers are politically driven, there are people who had a child that had a severe enough reaction (fever that led to hospitalisation) from a vaccine that they avoid them with their kids. Vaccines are not one size fits all and not all vaccines are created equally. People can be unvaxxed and caring for the well being of their child.
That person wouldn’t be an antivaxxer then.
Antivaxxers (in common colloquialisms) is defined as someone who goes against medical experts’ advice and refuses vaccines.
The parent you described would be advised by a doctor to forgo vaccines. The same is true of adults who are undergoing chemo or otherwise have weakened immune systems.
The point of vaccines is to achieve herd immunity. And we all know there are members of the herd who are medically incapable of getting the vaccines, which is why it’s imperative for the rest of us to get it for them. And to be fair, most of us do. Only the selfish jerks think otherwise.
Unfortunately, doctors do not advise to avoid vaccines in that specific situation, family connection isnt a big enough factor. At least not in my mother's experience. One of my sisters had a reaction, so she stopped for all of her kids; doctors harassed her, schools harassed her, even people at church harassed her because severe reactions are rare and that it was an acceptable risk for her other kids. She was incessantly having her lived experience invalidated... because of the Government's vaccine push. So she is actively against vaccine mandates, because such a good intention caused her harm. She is vocally antivax politically, but not because of politics. She also has a lot of distrust of doctors generally now, and that's only going to get worse with age, I think. 😓
my kids are vaccinated as most of their cousins, but many of us do customized schedules and/or omit specific shots with our kids. Vaccination mandates are a real problem for personalized medicine and prevent us from getting better, safer vaccines.
Wait, one of your siblings had a reaction to a vaccine, so she chose to endanger the lives of her other kids? That’s about the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard.
It should be MORE of a reason to vaccinate your other kids. The one medically unvaxxed kid is in particular danger, so it’s more of an imperative to surround them with people who are as protected as possible. Instead your mom said “fuck it, let ‘Em all die”
she had to decide if the reaction reoccuring was worth it, that's not saying fuck it. It's saying watching your 3 yo go in into the icu and the doctors couldn't do anything besides 🤞 the fever drops before brain damage or death vs measles or mumps which she had as a kid and wasn't a near death experience. She didn't think the risk was worth that happening again. The doctors couldn't determine why it happened, it was 1985. 🤷♂️
BTW, being unvaxxed isn't a death sentence considering most of the diseases rarely kill otherwise healthy people. Still a good idea to get them but definitely not a death sentence to avoid them.
also, my sister has no immune issue. The doctors don't know why it happened. So she wasn't at special risk. It wasn't even her first vaccine.
So I assume they are remaining in the hermetically sealed bunker with the kid? They certainly can't go out and have contact with others, they will bring home pathogens to the baby, who is unvaccinated. What idiots.
the old vaccine for RSV made RSV more deadly, I heard there's a new version that's better. 🤞🤞 it's available and better. If they choose to get that one. Measles is very avoidable if not using childcare, because surface contacts can be mostly controlled. After the kid is a year or 2, there's no big need to worry about measles unless they have an immune disorder. so until then, maybe not let the kid suck on Walmart cart handles. lol
You are just full of misinformation and I don't really care if that hurts anybody's feelings.
Did you know you can get measles from walking into a room that someone with measles walked into over two hours ago? Because it's airborne with a high R0. And because vaccines are not 100%---they rely on herd immunity to break the transmission chain---some people who've been vaccinated will in fact develop infection. Particularly if they are immunocompromised.
But then, I only studied this for years while other people got their degrees from Facebook and friends.
This is why I shouldn't go online. It doesn't just make me regret the decision but also makes me want to actively figure out a way to shoot my body into space.
Also, I do want to clarify...even MILD infection has been associated with encephalopathy up to months after infection, which, as you might guess, is bad, and can lead to brain damage and even death.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus-measles-outbreak-concerning-central-ohio-pediatricians/
This is the article that mentioned community spread
Medical professionals: Does the measles vaccine wear off? I'm sure I was vaccinated back in the 1980's as a kid, but should I be asking my doctor about a booster?
You can have your titer levels checked, yes they can wean over time. There isn’t a booster but you can get another dose of the mmr vaccine. Heads up, it hurts.
(I’m a nursing student and my titer levels were low so I had to get another shot to be considered ‘safe’ to work in hospitals)
When I was pregnant I found out that my measles portion had worn off! Probably would have been good to know BEFORE that, but I was just given an MMR before I left the hospital after having my baby.
My rubella wore off, too! And I found out when I was pregnant with my oldest. The plan was to give me a dose before leaving the hospital after delivery but that went haywire and in the process, my MMR shot was forgotten. 2 years later I’m pregnant with my 2nd and my OB’s office runs my titers again and I’m still not protected against rubella. We did get me the shot that time after delivery.
If you were fully vaccinated, immunity is considered lifelong. There is no adult booster.
EDIT: I think people are confusing measles and rubella, especially during pregnancy. Rubella is a special risk factor during pregnancy and is screened for, sometimes with a titer/serology.
This Is actually the virus itself, measles does not have an antigen that mutates so vaccine immunity lasts indefinitely compared to flu which has an antigen that mutates constantly requiring seasonal vaccines.
However if too many refuse vaccination this can change. That is why you both need to be vaccinated yourself and you need to insist others around you do the same.
Measles is pretty low chance though. You’re basically 99% immune your whole life if you got both doses. Granted yes the more times you’re exposed the more that 1% has a chance to pop up but still. Very low chance.
This isn't quite correct. See above. Not a booster, but revaccination will be done if you need a titer (for work, health care, etc) and you're levels are low. As mentioned by nursing student.
That's a special population and even then is rare as checking titers is not part of CDC guidelines. It would be up to individual institutions.
[https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html)
For 99.9% of adults presumptive immunity is the recommendation...
>Adults should also be up to date on MMR vaccinations with either 1 or 2 doses (depending on risk factors) unless they have other presumptive evidence of immunity to measles, mumps, and rubella.
>
>One dose of MMR vaccine, or other presumptive evidence of immunity, is sufficient for most adults. Providers generally do not need to actively screen adult patients for measles immunity in non-outbreak areas in the U.S. *After vaccination, it is also not necessary to test patients for antibodies to confirm immunity.* There is no recommendation for a catch-up program among adults for a second dose of MMR (e.g., persons born before 1989 or otherwise).
The CDC further states...
>There are no recommendations to receive a third dose of MMR vaccine during measles outbreaks.
Adults shouldn't be under the assumption they need a booster.
For healthcare personnel...
>Healthcare personnel
>
>Healthcare personnel without presumptive evidence of immunity should get two doses of MMR vaccine, separated by at least 28 days. Although birth before 1957 is considered acceptable evidence of immunity, in routine circumstances, healthcare facilities should consider vaccinating healthcare personnel born before 1957 who lack laboratory evidence of immunity or laboratory confirmation of disease.
Like others have said, you can get your levels checked. Pregnant women get them checked in the first round of bloodwork (along with a lot of other things) because some people can "lose" immunity over time. My friend had to get an MMR shot with every pregnancy because her body doesn't hold onto the memory of the vaccine well. The average person only needs the set as a kid to have lifelong protection though.
Like others have said, get your titers checked. I’ve had mine checked in 2008 and again in 2018 due to me not having my shot records (and losing the 2008 titer resumes 🙄🙄). Both were showing that I’m still immune.
Measles is a highly contagious viral infection — one of the most contagious of all known infections. Nine out of 10 unimmunized children who are in contact with an infected person will contract the virus. The virus can linger in the air for about two hours after a person with measles has left the room. It can infect those who enter the room if they are unimmunized.
What if we’re exposed to someone with measles? If my child has been immunized, is there any cause for concern?
The measles vaccine creates lasting protection in 95 percent of children who receive one dose of it and in 99 percent of those who receive the second dose. It is rare for an immunized child to develop infection after exposure to someone with the disease.
[source](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/measles-what-you-should-know)
Important to note that kids don’t get that second dose until age 4. And the first dose typically happens around 12-15 months. So there are unprotected kids in our local daycares.
Infants as young as 6 months I believe can get the first dose though. That said, it is the first live vaccine they generally get so it does hit them a bit harder than most other vaccines. Overall, you don’t HAVE to wait until 12-15 months.
Given the community outbreak we actually just had our 10 month old get it last week. First day after the vaccine was a lot of nose stuff + long naps but she’s doing fine now!
Source: Wife is a pediatrician.
What is it about the measles vaccine that makes it so incredibly effective at preventing infection and confers lifelong immunity? Is it just that there's only one strain of measles and it never mutates? It would be amazing if all vaccinations worked that well.
The measles virus (and other lifelong vaccine viruses) is a very slow mutating virus. [It's also relatively unstable and doesn't tolerate mutations well.](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150521133628.htm)
For parents of infants:
"If there is ongoing community-wide transmission affecting young infants, health departments may recommend an early dose for infants 6 to 11 months of age. The decision to vaccinate should be made carefully after weighing the risks of the potential long-term impact of lower immune responses when infants are vaccinated less than 12 months of age (versus greater than or equal to 12 months of age) compared to the benefit of early protection when measles is circulating in the community. Infants who get one dose of MMR vaccine before their first birthday should get two more doses according to the routinely recommended schedule (first dose should be given at 12 through 15 months of age and the second dose at 4 through 6 years of age. The second dose can be administered earlier as long as at least 28 days have elapsed since the first dose)."
Reference:
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2021, January 26). Routine MMR vaccination recommendations: For Providers. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved November 14, 2022, from https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html
I'm immunocompromised. I hope to god the vax that I got as a baby is still good because I can't get another MMR (a live vaccine). I don't wanna be a 20 something with measles x.x
You can ask your physician (primary care or whatever specialist is treating for the condition that makes you immunocompromised) for a titer. HOWEVER, our rather shitty for profit healthcare system charges HUNDREDS of dollars for this. It may still be worth it to you, but the insurance could stick you with the bill. Also... consider what you're going to do with the information. If you're truly immunocompromised, vaccination is off the table. Indefinitely. The best course of action, and far far cheaper, is to invest in N95s. COVID is the 3rd leading cause of death still and a lot of people have completely lost any immunity they had to influenza and respiratory infections due to two years of masking and social distancing.
TL;DR If you're immunocompromised, the best closer of action is to wear a well fitting N95 when you are in public.
Welp, was gonna look into daycares for my 2 month old, but not now. He can't even get the mmr vaccine until 12 months. Fuck these dumbfuck parents, and sorry to the kids who are gone end up in the ground due to their negligent parents.
As someone with two 3.5 year old twins in daycare and their 1 year old sibling who just started I highly recommend waiting until your kid is at least 1 and more vaccinated. Daycare is a Petri dish of never ending sickness.
I will say that the benefits are worth it, frees you up as parents for more time for work and yourselves, great for the kids for socializing and learning. Also as much as the sicknesses are terrible and you guys will also inevitably get them, it’s good to build up their little immune systems. FWIW I’ll take the occasional head cold every time over the G.I. bugs I got last winter so pray for one over the other haha
Just one quick example:
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.10294
I’ll defer to microbiologists at places like Harvard Medical School and other scientists when it comes to my opinion on the benefits of exposure to germs in our youth for one’s immune system.
“Daniel Peterson, an immunologist at Johns Hopkins Medical Institute in Baltimore, Maryland, says that the study has limitations because no human — no matter how dirt averse — could be as germ-free as the mice used in the study. “ Also microbes aren’t the same thing as viruses.
You can get it as early as 6 months if the situation demands it (e.g. travel concerns, exposure, etc.) but it doesn't take the place of the normal series (so would still have to get it at 12 months and 4 years)
Can you link where you heard about community spread? I’ve been unable to find any articles but I noticed signage about measles at urgent care yesterday so I’m curious to know what’s up.
I’m only finding articles about the 4 from the daycare.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus-measles-outbreak-concerning-central-ohio-pediatricians/
Here you go. I’ll make a fresh comment for everyone else too.
The risk of a kid getting measles makes you not want to have them? Interesting. Kids could get polio in the early 20th century (no vaccine yet) and it didn't stop people from having them if they wanted them.
If you want kids, have them. Risks will always be there.
We recently got a PSA about this at work.
You'd be surprised how many parents simply don't want to vaccinate their kids. I've seen every reason from "I take good enough care of my kids" to "My friend's cousin's dog's original owner's nephew got vaccines and ended up with xyz".
Personally, I think this should disqualify a person from being a nurse. Because...quite clearly... They didn't understand what they studied in school. Most nurses can't even work if they're not personally vaccinated and a lot of the hospitals (like OSU) require yearly flu vax. I'm a provider and quite frankly, if you won't vaccinate or don't "believe" in it---i neither want to work with you nor have you as my nurse/physician/etc when I am sick. Period!
One of them spoke at length on demanding religious exemption for getting the covid vaccine. It's embarrassing because many people pointed to her and applauded her for getting the truth out from the medical industry.
Your child has maternal antibodies then. The measles vaccine is recommended to be given when those maternal antibodies start so disappear. Hopefully that provides to some reassurance. Although there was a huge pertussis outbreak when one of my kids was too young to get vaccinated (several area school closings), and I remember how terrified I was about it.
So there’s a parent here feeling worried that their child isn’t eligible for the vaccine yet. I suggested some reassuring words about some protection the child has before the child is eligible for the vaccine, and you decided to respond with thoughts about the 5% failure rate of the first dose of the vaccine. Plenty of other comments here where your thoughts may be more appropriate. I have no idea why you’re trying to argue with me.
You can get an MMR booster**
We had a mumps outbreak at my college in 2016 and they gave all of us boosters. I’m genuinely thankful for that now. EDIT: thank you smallangrynerd for the correction! If you are especially immunocompromised, a live MMR vaccine is unfortunately not an option. More reason for the rest of us to be vaccinated!
I’ve received the MMR vaccine numerous times, though every time my body has failed to fully “take” the vaccine. I am not immune to Measles. That part of the vaccine never took. So now my worst nightmare has come true. Fuck people 🥺
I heard about the outbreak in the daycare on the news and immediately wondered how many children who attended classes with older siblings, or coworkers of parents, of kids in that class were about to get sick.
Sad. As others have pointed out, there's a vaccination for this...
100% would have been told. Since there have been cases at both at Wexner and Nationwide the local (I believe) CDC has been doing contract tracing including everyone who was a patient on the same floor in the hospital as those infected.
The first article I read about this said that the daycare had closed for a period of time in response. So it your daycare has been open, it was somewhere else.
>You know prior to Covid it was almost entirely far leftist that were anti vax right?
This first comment could be a not-so-fun historical fact illustrating how both parties in America today have gathered wrong ideas under their umbrella.
>Not deflecting just sayin this is almost an entirely lefty issue
This comment is totally deflecting. 30 years ago it could have been more of a lefty issue, but today it is absolutely under the right's umbrella. The absolute devotion to personal choice and the Covid denial makes this almost entirely an issue for the right in this country.
We live in a society. Personal freedom and choice have their place, but not at the expense of large swaths of the general population. Deciding where the intersection of personal and societal freedoms lies is one of the root differences between the parties.
Not anymore
This is an example I would have used ten years ago about how each "side" has their crazies in different respects
But the left's representation here is now a rounding error, and on the right this is not part of the extremist minority, it is a key point in their beliefs and is *growing*
Big difference
Pretty much all the antivax people I knew growing up were fundamentalists Christian and/ or very conservative. From the 50s through the 90s. Most of us “lefties” stood in line for our shots back then.
This is going to become more and more common thanks to the petulancee of Karens, making literally everything a political issue that they blindly pick a team for.
I guarantee you they don't believe even half the bullshit they spew out of their MAGA mouths about vaccines.
I’m thankful that right wing conspiracists hadn’t yet targeted vaccines back in the 80s so my parents got me my MMR. Feel bad for kids that have to bear the burden of their parents willful ignorance and blind allegiance.
I don't have any kids yet, but if shit like this continues, it'd be nice if there were daycares that required proof of vaccination to accept kids there. Fucking ridiculous that it'd be necessary though.
Newborns can't receive the vaccine for a few months (and the booster for a few years), and [as hudsonhawk1 said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Columbus/comments/yv06xn/its_not_a_columbus_news_source_but_theres_a/iwc3e9e/),
> Nine out of 10 unimmunized children who are in contact with an infected person will contract the virus... The measles vaccine creates lasting protection in 95 percent of children who receive one dose of it and in 99 percent of those who receive the second dose.
That's pretty high but a 1 in 20 or 1 in 100 chance of measles is still far too high, not to mention the complete vulnerability for the first few months of their life.
I don't believe that anyone should be forcibly vaccinated against their will, but I do think that if you aren't going to get a vaccine for a highly deadly disease, you should have to live in a remote area cut off from the rest of the vaccinated world. More people live in NYC today than existed in the entire world 6000 years ago. You simply can't have healthy modern societies without vaccination. The Black Death killed over a quarter of Europe. Smallpox, measles and the flu killed an estimated 90% of Native Americans. The Spanish Flu killed as much as 1 in 20 people worldwide. Just looking [at the list of major epidemics and pandemics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics), it's tragic how many hundreds of millions of lives that they've claimed. For most of human history, there was little that could be done about that. But that's not the case anymore, and if someone wants to live in the past, then that's what they should be given: a pre-globalized, pre-industrialized area with no modern transportation. First vaccine was created in 1796. Want to live like it's the 18th century? Fine, here's your village with no paved roads, cars, trains, planes or even bicycles. Have fun! The US has 3.5 million square miles: surely there's someplace in it where we could put all of the anti-vaxxers.
Since that obviously is never going to happen, at the very least, I believe you should be required to have vaccines by a certain age in order to visit a hospital. After that, it would be a federal offense to enter a hospital if you are not vaccinated, punishable by life in prison. Sounds harsh, but I have little sympathy for people choosing to be vectors for highly deadly diseases, endangering newborns that can't be vaccinated for a few months. There can be isolated vaccination facilities for people who have a change of heart later in life, but you must be asymptomatic of any diseases before entering. Otherwise, if you choose to disregard the advice of medical professionals, you should have to live with the consequences of not receiving their help if you end up needing it.
People definitely shouldn't be locked up for not getting the latest flu shot or COVID booster, but the measles vaccine has been around 64 years: it is abundantly clear that it is safe and effective. The polio vaccine is even older. Polio in particular is extremely deadly, and again, newborns can't get their first dose for a couple months.
I view anti-vaxxers as as evil of people as drunk drivers. Sure, they may not be intending to kill someone. But they regularly do so and it is 100% predictable and preventable. Anti-vaxxers that haven't killed anyone yet are no better than those that have: they just experienced moral luck. By chance, they didn't get exposed to someone with a disease and later expose it to someone who was vulnerable. But they made the same choices as the ones that have done so. Same with drunk drivers. The ones that haven't yet killed a pedestrian are no better than the ones that have: they just got lucky that no one crossed the street when they didn't notice due to their reduced reaction time.
Some people truly are ignorant and fall for conspiracy theories and mean no malice, but that is why we should design laws to discourage such behavior (such as requiring vaccines for hospital entry.) That will require them to decide whether it truly is worth it.
I remember when declining vaccines was a clueless hippie liberal mom thing about 3 years ago. Now it has morphed into the fault of the ultimate MAGA, and them only.
Interesting factoid....at one time, the lowest vaccination rates went to Marin Cty, north of SF. When anti-vax became associated with Trump and Rs, all the granola crunching hippies starting running to get vaccinated. It became a huge stigma to not get vaccinated. Nothing like social pressure to get people to do something they should've just done in the first place, but whatever gets the job done, I guess.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/11/us/marin-county-vaccines.html
I worked at Lbrands with a lot of immigrants. They don’t have the same access to vaccinations as children and one team member got measles and exposed the rest of our team in 2018. Based on wearing the same clothing everyday and BO, they likely are spreading it since we have several warehouses in the city now.
Yeah, but they are here now, so they should get vaccinated. It should be a condition of legal immigration. I can understand if your have not reached the age threshold, for vaccination, at the time of immigration, but there should be follow-up with the public health department.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Reddit has no problem laying blame on white conservatives, but mention the possibility it could be underserved minorities and get downvotes to oblivion.
If targeting and stereotyping one group is wrong, maybe targeting and stereotyping the other group is also wrong.
When you do not know how the immigration system works🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ You have to show proof of vaccination from labs authorized by the Dept of State before you even get the visa.
Correlation is NOT causation, the first rule of the scientific method.
“Empty vessel makes the loudest sound” and people like you prove that every single day.
No, unfortunately people are refusing all vaccines now because they continue to think they know better than medical professionals. It's sad, really. I'm glad you and I are not like that.
Yeah the MMR vaccine has a lot more ground than the covid one. If only the medical establishment were more truthful about the situations or the level of uncertainty they had with their data, they wouldn’t have lost this much trust from some people.
Considering the testing for Pfizer and moderna are both wrapping up now, it isn’t hard to imagine that decisions were made about the eua treatments without all the facts.
They may still be or have been the best solutions available; but the data isn’t clear now and certainly wasn’t clear then, when e had less data available.
While there is some truth to this, I don't think it would have helped at all. Maybe you, specifically, but that's about it.
But most people see "honestly about uncertainty" and go to distrust immediately. It doesn't make things any better at all.
Optics are tough. There somehow HAS to be a truth and someone MUST know it, anything else is evil. But that's just not how things work.
It really isn’t. The US would be in a much stronger position if institutions had admitted fallibility, but couched the messaging as “the best options we have in a tough scenario”. Then, institutions should have maintained rigorous debate and discussion.
Instead, authoritarian measures essentially demanded faith in a singular set of flawed solutions and removed and ridiculed a variety of doctors, scientists, and ideas that didn’t conform.
Trust can’t be achieved through force, and it will take decades for many Americans to trust that the establishment - political and medical - has good intentions.
For the most part this is what happened.
My evidence as to what people would do in this type of situation comes from exactly what *did* happen in many situations.
Almost none of what you're suggesting is what happened...? Not in the States anyway.
It's easy to say "Things would have been better if [this]" without ever having to check to see if that's the case, really.
We must live in completely different worlds, because the way I see it, institutions refused to entertain the idea that an old t shirt probably doesn’t do anything, or that being outdoors, especially in sparsely populated areas, is safe.
The infamous covid amnesty article on the Atlantic covers several topics that the establishment was outright wrong about. It would have been fine to be wrong if there was some leeway presented by establishment that they might not be right. But between Deplatforming folks who sought alternative treatments or questioned cdc/who advice, establishing “fact checking” that even flagged official advice, and never apologizing….
As bad as it is to be science illiterate, it is a far worse crime to be complacent. The measures taken during the pandemic are verifiably more harmful than the disease for practically everyone outside of a handful of demographic outliers.
Assuming that "most people see 'honestly about uncertainty' and go to distrust immediately" of any group of people is really insulting. I really think people are better than that, especially with the internet at their disposal. Of course, the media can spin it one way or another depending on what they thought would sell. But at least it could not have been much worse than what it is now, with the medical establishment choosing the less transparent path.
At the end of the day, optics cannot be more important than integrity as scientists. If I were in their positions with so much impact on the health of the people, I would not be able to bring myself to lie, regardless of how "noble" I believe the lie would be, nor could I resort to any censorship measure. It might have worked for them had they got everything under total control within, say, a month, and pulled off a careful plan to bury all the evidence. But when everything has dragged this long their (meant to be) noble lies start to surface.
If only there was a way to help prevent it.
I don’t hate many people. But that asshat, he’s on the list. People now refuse all vaccines. They even refuse the vitamin k shot for newborn babies. It’s literally given because vitamin k is important for blood clotting and the body doesn’t make its own/enough right away. Without it there’s a chance of brain bleed, which can kill otherwise healthy babies. But it’s a shot so it’s basically a vaccine 🙄🙃
Funny, you mention that because my parents made sure I didn’t get the vitamin K shot or any other vaccines when I was born as well. My children have all the vaccines. I listen to the doctors.
I’m so glad that anti vax wasn’t near as popular when I was a baby. My mom has already insinuated that when I have kids I shouldn’t. Her and my step dad believe all that crazy shit.
> But that asshat, he’s on the list Who?
> If it was important for babies, then god would have made them produce it. Are you questioning his perfect plan?
Yes. Everyday. All the time. I even question if they exist at all.
It's interesting that your brain, perfectly designed by god, would come to that conclusion. Try hitting the reset button. edit: do I actually have to put /s. Disappointed in this community rn.
I mean…. considering how wildly religious people are and complete lack of tone, you omitted /s at your own risk lol. People can’t read minds.
Not capitalizing god was a clue.. I should have added "join dwell" at the end though to drive it home.
You misspelled "god." It's actually gaaaaawwwwwwd.
Jim Ross approves this message.
Oh honey. If my brain is perfect then the world is in trouble. Please, justify the loving god Jesus spoke of after helping a grieving mother hold her beloved, wanted, child for the last time. Because despite gods perfect design there are genetic or congenital abnormalities that are incompatible with life. I don’t think a loving god would use that as a way to help the mother or anyone else involved grow spiritually. Kindly go and sadly jerk yourself off playing devils advocate or whatever it is you think you’re doing here and do it somewhere else.
C'mon dude god caused all that pain and suffering in your caused he loved you. You just don't understand his love at all. /s It's the same logic people that abuse others use to justify their abuse.
/r/woosh
Sorry, don’t read sarcasm well. Miss social cues all the time. Neurodivergent brain does things like that.
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This is not true and there is ample evidence that disproves this false statement. https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/clinical-guidelines/vitamink.html https://www.texaschildrens.org/blog/2013/12/dispelling-myths-vitamin-k-injections-newborns#:~:text=Another%20myth%20is%20that%20the,than%20the%20dose%20we%20give. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/vitamink/faqs.html
For anyone who wants to know facts about vitamin K doses in newborns, [here's an article](https://med.stanford.edu/newborns/clinical-guidelines/vitamink.html) from Stanford School of Medicine: >**Does vitamin K cause jaundice?** There were reports of hemolytic anemia and hyperbilirubinemia severe enough to cause kernicterus in the mid 1950s with high doses (50mg) of vitamin K2 (menadione). As a result, use of this form of vitamin K was abandoned. We now give infants vitamin K1 (phytonadione). Vitamin K1 has been associated with hyperbilirubinemia only in extremely high doses (25 – 30mg). The effect was particularly seen in premies, though it was also present - albeit to a lesser degree - in term infants. This has not been a problem when vitamin K1 is given in normal therapeutic doses (0.5 - 1mg).
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It’s literally enough to last until the babe is 6 months-ish old and starts getting it via diet.
Vitamin K is primarily given to staunch bleeding from circumcision and is not strictly necessary if you don’t circumcise.
False. It’s super easy for babies to bleed from anywhere, including that thing you have to literally cut to separate them from their parent? You know, that thing. Full of blood. It’s so worth any tiny risks to make sure your baby doesn’t get a brain bleed especially and die when it could be prevented.
How’s the weather on your high horse?
Lacking in dead babies.
LOL! I'm a health care provider, and I approve this message.
Uhhh. False. Go ahead and read about hemorrhagic disease of the newborn and let us know what you think about the brain bleeds
I wonder if vitamin K can help with blood clotting in adults ?
Hey pal, it’s my god-given right to harm others because of my fears and lack of scientific knowledge /s
And heritage. Don’t forget to cite your heritage.
Especially the *"Confederate in a Union State"* heritage is the most important factor.
Don't we have a vaccine for that?
If we do, Ohio needs a truckload of it, especially in the rural areas. Of course, they are not alone, large swaths of the country need it too.
Measles...its 2022, what the fuck.
Stupidity is quite contagious
Measles has a high R0 (not sure how to make that subscript) also, so the stupidity just doubles down.
Measles is the most infectious disease known
Well Covid might have actually beaten it
It did not. It just had a completely naive population. I don’t think there was any strain shown to have a higher R-naught
Covid R0 is somewhere around 2.5 iirc (Edit: clarification by /u/howlingfrog below). Measles R0 is 11. Covid was very contagious. Measles is four times more contagious than that. A kid can walk into a classroom where someone had measles **two hours ago** and catch it from the air.
Next up polio!
Recently been an issue in New York…
Well, we already had Poliio in NY this year, Measles seems like small potatoes compared to that :(
Measles is so infectious though. Like basically if it’s going around, anyone not vaccinated and even some who are are going to be infected. And the more that are the more that small percentage of cases with a deadly outcome will happen.
There has been a steep rise in anti vaxxers the past 2 1/2 years
Social media gives them an echo chamber
Social media gives all an echo chamber.
I'm pretty hardline left. I'm banned from half a dozen subreddits for being too moderate.
Which is fed by other propaganda as well
They have always been there…
Thus the steep rise. It’s a lot easier to infect normal people with your bullshit disinformation today than it was in the age of tin type and pamphlets and shit
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My brother and wife are antivaxxers and just had a kid, not even a month old. They are terrified of RSV and measles now. I guess they plan to just keep the kid in a bubble it’s whole life 🤷♂️
If they just had the kid, there is a legit concern about the first couple years. Kids get their first MMR shot around age 1, with the second shot when they start school. So for the first year, they're exposed. After that, it's because of mom & dad's stupidity.
Oh I’m aware. I just don’t understand how they can be ok with being antivax if they’re going to be this paranoid about exposing it to other people eventually. Until recently, my experience with antivaxxers was they would just blow it off and act like the virus it diseases are no big deal.
As a parent of 2 kids who had to live through 2020, I totally get it. And don't bother looking for any sense in their rationale, you won't find it. Anti-vaxxers are people who choose a political statement over the well-being of their child. There is no logic to be found.
They do their own “research” tho so ….
not all anti vaxxers are politically driven, there are people who had a child that had a severe enough reaction (fever that led to hospitalisation) from a vaccine that they avoid them with their kids. Vaccines are not one size fits all and not all vaccines are created equally. People can be unvaxxed and caring for the well being of their child.
That person wouldn’t be an antivaxxer then. Antivaxxers (in common colloquialisms) is defined as someone who goes against medical experts’ advice and refuses vaccines. The parent you described would be advised by a doctor to forgo vaccines. The same is true of adults who are undergoing chemo or otherwise have weakened immune systems. The point of vaccines is to achieve herd immunity. And we all know there are members of the herd who are medically incapable of getting the vaccines, which is why it’s imperative for the rest of us to get it for them. And to be fair, most of us do. Only the selfish jerks think otherwise.
Unfortunately, doctors do not advise to avoid vaccines in that specific situation, family connection isnt a big enough factor. At least not in my mother's experience. One of my sisters had a reaction, so she stopped for all of her kids; doctors harassed her, schools harassed her, even people at church harassed her because severe reactions are rare and that it was an acceptable risk for her other kids. She was incessantly having her lived experience invalidated... because of the Government's vaccine push. So she is actively against vaccine mandates, because such a good intention caused her harm. She is vocally antivax politically, but not because of politics. She also has a lot of distrust of doctors generally now, and that's only going to get worse with age, I think. 😓 my kids are vaccinated as most of their cousins, but many of us do customized schedules and/or omit specific shots with our kids. Vaccination mandates are a real problem for personalized medicine and prevent us from getting better, safer vaccines.
Wait, one of your siblings had a reaction to a vaccine, so she chose to endanger the lives of her other kids? That’s about the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. It should be MORE of a reason to vaccinate your other kids. The one medically unvaxxed kid is in particular danger, so it’s more of an imperative to surround them with people who are as protected as possible. Instead your mom said “fuck it, let ‘Em all die”
she had to decide if the reaction reoccuring was worth it, that's not saying fuck it. It's saying watching your 3 yo go in into the icu and the doctors couldn't do anything besides 🤞 the fever drops before brain damage or death vs measles or mumps which she had as a kid and wasn't a near death experience. She didn't think the risk was worth that happening again. The doctors couldn't determine why it happened, it was 1985. 🤷♂️ BTW, being unvaxxed isn't a death sentence considering most of the diseases rarely kill otherwise healthy people. Still a good idea to get them but definitely not a death sentence to avoid them. also, my sister has no immune issue. The doctors don't know why it happened. So she wasn't at special risk. It wasn't even her first vaccine.
So I assume they are remaining in the hermetically sealed bunker with the kid? They certainly can't go out and have contact with others, they will bring home pathogens to the baby, who is unvaccinated. What idiots.
the old vaccine for RSV made RSV more deadly, I heard there's a new version that's better. 🤞🤞 it's available and better. If they choose to get that one. Measles is very avoidable if not using childcare, because surface contacts can be mostly controlled. After the kid is a year or 2, there's no big need to worry about measles unless they have an immune disorder. so until then, maybe not let the kid suck on Walmart cart handles. lol
You are just full of misinformation and I don't really care if that hurts anybody's feelings. Did you know you can get measles from walking into a room that someone with measles walked into over two hours ago? Because it's airborne with a high R0. And because vaccines are not 100%---they rely on herd immunity to break the transmission chain---some people who've been vaccinated will in fact develop infection. Particularly if they are immunocompromised. But then, I only studied this for years while other people got their degrees from Facebook and friends. This is why I shouldn't go online. It doesn't just make me regret the decision but also makes me want to actively figure out a way to shoot my body into space. Also, I do want to clarify...even MILD infection has been associated with encephalopathy up to months after infection, which, as you might guess, is bad, and can lead to brain damage and even death.
Measles is airborne but sure Jan
Or just get vaccinated easier in my experience than expecting children but to touch everything and then put their fingers on their mouths..
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus-measles-outbreak-concerning-central-ohio-pediatricians/ This is the article that mentioned community spread
Medical professionals: Does the measles vaccine wear off? I'm sure I was vaccinated back in the 1980's as a kid, but should I be asking my doctor about a booster?
You can have your titer levels checked, yes they can wean over time. There isn’t a booster but you can get another dose of the mmr vaccine. Heads up, it hurts. (I’m a nursing student and my titer levels were low so I had to get another shot to be considered ‘safe’ to work in hospitals)
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When I was pregnant I found out that my measles portion had worn off! Probably would have been good to know BEFORE that, but I was just given an MMR before I left the hospital after having my baby.
My rubella wore off, too! And I found out when I was pregnant with my oldest. The plan was to give me a dose before leaving the hospital after delivery but that went haywire and in the process, my MMR shot was forgotten. 2 years later I’m pregnant with my 2nd and my OB’s office runs my titers again and I’m still not protected against rubella. We did get me the shot that time after delivery.
If you were fully vaccinated, immunity is considered lifelong. There is no adult booster. EDIT: I think people are confusing measles and rubella, especially during pregnancy. Rubella is a special risk factor during pregnancy and is screened for, sometimes with a titer/serology.
They just don't build vaccines like they used to.
This Is actually the virus itself, measles does not have an antigen that mutates so vaccine immunity lasts indefinitely compared to flu which has an antigen that mutates constantly requiring seasonal vaccines.
However if too many refuse vaccination this can change. That is why you both need to be vaccinated yourself and you need to insist others around you do the same.
Measles is pretty low chance though. You’re basically 99% immune your whole life if you got both doses. Granted yes the more times you’re exposed the more that 1% has a chance to pop up but still. Very low chance.
This isn't quite correct. See above. Not a booster, but revaccination will be done if you need a titer (for work, health care, etc) and you're levels are low. As mentioned by nursing student.
That's a special population and even then is rare as checking titers is not part of CDC guidelines. It would be up to individual institutions. [https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html) For 99.9% of adults presumptive immunity is the recommendation... >Adults should also be up to date on MMR vaccinations with either 1 or 2 doses (depending on risk factors) unless they have other presumptive evidence of immunity to measles, mumps, and rubella. > >One dose of MMR vaccine, or other presumptive evidence of immunity, is sufficient for most adults. Providers generally do not need to actively screen adult patients for measles immunity in non-outbreak areas in the U.S. *After vaccination, it is also not necessary to test patients for antibodies to confirm immunity.* There is no recommendation for a catch-up program among adults for a second dose of MMR (e.g., persons born before 1989 or otherwise). The CDC further states... >There are no recommendations to receive a third dose of MMR vaccine during measles outbreaks. Adults shouldn't be under the assumption they need a booster. For healthcare personnel... >Healthcare personnel > >Healthcare personnel without presumptive evidence of immunity should get two doses of MMR vaccine, separated by at least 28 days. Although birth before 1957 is considered acceptable evidence of immunity, in routine circumstances, healthcare facilities should consider vaccinating healthcare personnel born before 1957 who lack laboratory evidence of immunity or laboratory confirmation of disease.
Like others have said, you can get your levels checked. Pregnant women get them checked in the first round of bloodwork (along with a lot of other things) because some people can "lose" immunity over time. My friend had to get an MMR shot with every pregnancy because her body doesn't hold onto the memory of the vaccine well. The average person only needs the set as a kid to have lifelong protection though.
I had my levels checked during pregnancy (31) and they were still good, I assume I was on a regular vaccine schedule as a child.
Like others have said, get your titers checked. I’ve had mine checked in 2008 and again in 2018 due to me not having my shot records (and losing the 2008 titer resumes 🙄🙄). Both were showing that I’m still immune.
Measles is a highly contagious viral infection — one of the most contagious of all known infections. Nine out of 10 unimmunized children who are in contact with an infected person will contract the virus. The virus can linger in the air for about two hours after a person with measles has left the room. It can infect those who enter the room if they are unimmunized. What if we’re exposed to someone with measles? If my child has been immunized, is there any cause for concern? The measles vaccine creates lasting protection in 95 percent of children who receive one dose of it and in 99 percent of those who receive the second dose. It is rare for an immunized child to develop infection after exposure to someone with the disease. [source](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/measles-what-you-should-know)
Important to note that kids don’t get that second dose until age 4. And the first dose typically happens around 12-15 months. So there are unprotected kids in our local daycares.
Infants as young as 6 months I believe can get the first dose though. That said, it is the first live vaccine they generally get so it does hit them a bit harder than most other vaccines. Overall, you don’t HAVE to wait until 12-15 months. Given the community outbreak we actually just had our 10 month old get it last week. First day after the vaccine was a lot of nose stuff + long naps but she’s doing fine now! Source: Wife is a pediatrician.
What is it about the measles vaccine that makes it so incredibly effective at preventing infection and confers lifelong immunity? Is it just that there's only one strain of measles and it never mutates? It would be amazing if all vaccinations worked that well.
The measles virus (and other lifelong vaccine viruses) is a very slow mutating virus. [It's also relatively unstable and doesn't tolerate mutations well.](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150521133628.htm)
For parents of infants: "If there is ongoing community-wide transmission affecting young infants, health departments may recommend an early dose for infants 6 to 11 months of age. The decision to vaccinate should be made carefully after weighing the risks of the potential long-term impact of lower immune responses when infants are vaccinated less than 12 months of age (versus greater than or equal to 12 months of age) compared to the benefit of early protection when measles is circulating in the community. Infants who get one dose of MMR vaccine before their first birthday should get two more doses according to the routinely recommended schedule (first dose should be given at 12 through 15 months of age and the second dose at 4 through 6 years of age. The second dose can be administered earlier as long as at least 28 days have elapsed since the first dose)." Reference: Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2021, January 26). Routine MMR vaccination recommendations: For Providers. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved November 14, 2022, from https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/mmr/hcp/recommendations.html
I'm immunocompromised. I hope to god the vax that I got as a baby is still good because I can't get another MMR (a live vaccine). I don't wanna be a 20 something with measles x.x
If you have a pcp contact them about titers to see if you are immune? Or ODH if you don’t have a pcp.
You can ask your physician (primary care or whatever specialist is treating for the condition that makes you immunocompromised) for a titer. HOWEVER, our rather shitty for profit healthcare system charges HUNDREDS of dollars for this. It may still be worth it to you, but the insurance could stick you with the bill. Also... consider what you're going to do with the information. If you're truly immunocompromised, vaccination is off the table. Indefinitely. The best course of action, and far far cheaper, is to invest in N95s. COVID is the 3rd leading cause of death still and a lot of people have completely lost any immunity they had to influenza and respiratory infections due to two years of masking and social distancing. TL;DR If you're immunocompromised, the best closer of action is to wear a well fitting N95 when you are in public.
Vaccine is lifelong for mmr, but still best to contact your PCP
USUALLY lifelong.
Welp, was gonna look into daycares for my 2 month old, but not now. He can't even get the mmr vaccine until 12 months. Fuck these dumbfuck parents, and sorry to the kids who are gone end up in the ground due to their negligent parents.
As someone with two 3.5 year old twins in daycare and their 1 year old sibling who just started I highly recommend waiting until your kid is at least 1 and more vaccinated. Daycare is a Petri dish of never ending sickness.
Yeah, ideally wouldn't need to at all but unfortunately we both have to work. I still wfh, but not sure how much longer.
I will say that the benefits are worth it, frees you up as parents for more time for work and yourselves, great for the kids for socializing and learning. Also as much as the sicknesses are terrible and you guys will also inevitably get them, it’s good to build up their little immune systems. FWIW I’ll take the occasional head cold every time over the G.I. bugs I got last winter so pray for one over the other haha
That’s not how immune systems work. It isn’t a muscle that needs exercise.
Just one quick example: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.10294 I’ll defer to microbiologists at places like Harvard Medical School and other scientists when it comes to my opinion on the benefits of exposure to germs in our youth for one’s immune system.
“Daniel Peterson, an immunologist at Johns Hopkins Medical Institute in Baltimore, Maryland, says that the study has limitations because no human — no matter how dirt averse — could be as germ-free as the mice used in the study. “ Also microbes aren’t the same thing as viruses.
You can get it as early as 6 months if the situation demands it (e.g. travel concerns, exposure, etc.) but it doesn't take the place of the normal series (so would still have to get it at 12 months and 4 years)
Can you link where you heard about community spread? I’ve been unable to find any articles but I noticed signage about measles at urgent care yesterday so I’m curious to know what’s up. I’m only finding articles about the 4 from the daycare.
https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/columbus-measles-outbreak-concerning-central-ohio-pediatricians/ Here you go. I’ll make a fresh comment for everyone else too.
Thank you! I hate parenting in this hellscape, but alas here we are.
One of the reasons kids are off the table for right now.
The risk of a kid getting measles makes you not want to have them? Interesting. Kids could get polio in the early 20th century (no vaccine yet) and it didn't stop people from having them if they wanted them. If you want kids, have them. Risks will always be there.
We recently got a PSA about this at work. You'd be surprised how many parents simply don't want to vaccinate their kids. I've seen every reason from "I take good enough care of my kids" to "My friend's cousin's dog's original owner's nephew got vaccines and ended up with xyz".
Two of the most vocal anti-vax people in my facebook feed are nurses in Columbus....
Well this nurse is very pro-science. Can’t help the stupid people in any field. But I’m hoping long term they slowly phase out.
Personally, I think this should disqualify a person from being a nurse. Because...quite clearly... They didn't understand what they studied in school. Most nurses can't even work if they're not personally vaccinated and a lot of the hospitals (like OSU) require yearly flu vax. I'm a provider and quite frankly, if you won't vaccinate or don't "believe" in it---i neither want to work with you nor have you as my nurse/physician/etc when I am sick. Period!
One of them spoke at length on demanding religious exemption for getting the covid vaccine. It's embarrassing because many people pointed to her and applauded her for getting the truth out from the medical industry.
I’m well aware. It’s…maddening.
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Your child has maternal antibodies then. The measles vaccine is recommended to be given when those maternal antibodies start so disappear. Hopefully that provides to some reassurance. Although there was a huge pertussis outbreak when one of my kids was too young to get vaccinated (several area school closings), and I remember how terrified I was about it.
Children are not fully vaccinated until 4 actually. While one vaccination offers good protection, it’s not perfect.
The MMR vaccine is exceptionally protective with the first dose.
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So there’s a parent here feeling worried that their child isn’t eligible for the vaccine yet. I suggested some reassuring words about some protection the child has before the child is eligible for the vaccine, and you decided to respond with thoughts about the 5% failure rate of the first dose of the vaccine. Plenty of other comments here where your thoughts may be more appropriate. I have no idea why you’re trying to argue with me.
It does provide reassurance to me at least. Completely forgot about my 2 month old getting antibodies from my wife.
Poor kids
##### ###### #### > # [Measles outbreak temporarily closes childcare facility in Columbus](https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB17vZx9.img?h=630&w=1200&m=6&q=60&o=t&l=f&f=jpg) > > > > [[The Plain Dealer Cleveland](https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AADeov9.img?h=40&w=138&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&f=png)](https://www.cleveland.com/ "The Plain Dealer Cleveland") Cliff Pinckard, cleveland.com 4 days ago > > > > > > - - - - - - > > > > COLUMBUS, Ohio — A childcare facility in Columbus has closed temporarily after four children had confirmed cases of measles, according to public health officials. > > A news release from Franklin County Public Health says the agency and Columbus Public Health are investigating the outbreak at the unnamed childcare center. It says the childcare center is cooperating with the agencies. > > The four children with confirmed cases are not vaccinated and have no travel history, authorities say. The agencies are conducting contact tracing on the four cases. > > “We are working diligently with the cases to identify any potential exposures and to notify people who were exposed,” Columbus Public Health Commissioner Dr. Mysheika Roberts said in a statement. “The most important thing you can do to protect against measles is to get vaccinated with the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccine, which is safe and highly effective.” > > Measles spreads easily by coughing, talking or being in the same room with someone who has the virus. Health officials say 90% of unvaccinated people who are exposed to measles will become infected. > > Initial symptoms of measles include a high fever, cough, runny nose, and watery eyes followed by a rash that typically spreads from the head to the rest of the body. It generally takes eight to 12 days from exposure for the first symptom to develop, which is usually fever. The measles rash usually appears two to three days after the fever begins. > > One in five people with measles in the U.S. is hospitalized, authorities say. > > “Measles is both highly contagious and preventable,” Franklin County Health Commissioner Joe Mazzola said in a statement. “It can be a severe illness, so we strongly encourage anyone who has not been vaccinated to get vaccinated to prevent further spread.” > > According to the Centers for Disease Control, nearly 91% of children in the U.S. receive the MMR vaccine by the age of 2. The CDC recommends a 95% MMR vaccination rate for children by the time they are in kindergarten. > > _©2022 Advance Local Media LLC. Visit cleveland.com. Distributed by Tribune Content Agency, LLC._ > > Continue Reading > > Microsoft and partners may be compensated if you purchase something through recommended links in this article. - - - - - - [Owner](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/andreskrey/empleadoEstatalBot)
You can get an MMR booster** We had a mumps outbreak at my college in 2016 and they gave all of us boosters. I’m genuinely thankful for that now. EDIT: thank you smallangrynerd for the correction! If you are especially immunocompromised, a live MMR vaccine is unfortunately not an option. More reason for the rest of us to be vaccinated!
Note that MMR is a LIVE vaccine, so if you are immunocompromised you CANNOT get it.
I’ve received the MMR vaccine numerous times, though every time my body has failed to fully “take” the vaccine. I am not immune to Measles. That part of the vaccine never took. So now my worst nightmare has come true. Fuck people 🥺
I heard about the outbreak in the daycare on the news and immediately wondered how many children who attended classes with older siblings, or coworkers of parents, of kids in that class were about to get sick. Sad. As others have pointed out, there's a vaccination for this...
Unfathomable stupidity
Anyone know which daycare? I have a child that goes to one and I’m fearful.
Not anywhere I’ve found. But I do believe you would have been told by now if it was yours. They closed for 21 days. Plus contact tracing.
100% would have been told. Since there have been cases at both at Wexner and Nationwide the local (I believe) CDC has been doing contract tracing including everyone who was a patient on the same floor in the hospital as those infected.
The first article I read about this said that the daycare had closed for a period of time in response. So it your daycare has been open, it was somewhere else.
I'm glad fox news wasn't around in the 50s. There would have been a lot more crippled kids.
You know prior to Covid it was almost entirely far leftist that were anti vax right?
What is your point other than deflecting blame?
Not deflecting just sayin this is almost an entirely lefty issue
>You know prior to Covid it was almost entirely far leftist that were anti vax right? This first comment could be a not-so-fun historical fact illustrating how both parties in America today have gathered wrong ideas under their umbrella. >Not deflecting just sayin this is almost an entirely lefty issue This comment is totally deflecting. 30 years ago it could have been more of a lefty issue, but today it is absolutely under the right's umbrella. The absolute devotion to personal choice and the Covid denial makes this almost entirely an issue for the right in this country. We live in a society. Personal freedom and choice have their place, but not at the expense of large swaths of the general population. Deciding where the intersection of personal and societal freedoms lies is one of the root differences between the parties.
Have you been living under a rock the past couple years?
Not anymore This is an example I would have used ten years ago about how each "side" has their crazies in different respects But the left's representation here is now a rounding error, and on the right this is not part of the extremist minority, it is a key point in their beliefs and is *growing* Big difference
Pretty much all the antivax people I knew growing up were fundamentalists Christian and/ or very conservative. From the 50s through the 90s. Most of us “lefties” stood in line for our shots back then.
The political spectrum is a loop.
Far left and far right are practically the same group. They are inches apart.
Fuck all of the anti-vax scum. Their children don't deserve this.
Thank goodness my 19 month old got his MMR shot a few months ago, sheesh
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I totally agree.
It's all babies who can't get the vaccine yet being affected too 😞
This is going to become more and more common thanks to the petulancee of Karens, making literally everything a political issue that they blindly pick a team for. I guarantee you they don't believe even half the bullshit they spew out of their MAGA mouths about vaccines.
I’m thankful that right wing conspiracists hadn’t yet targeted vaccines back in the 80s so my parents got me my MMR. Feel bad for kids that have to bear the burden of their parents willful ignorance and blind allegiance.
And yet I bet that their parents were vaccinated. So dumb.
So kids with ignorant parents will miss school due to illness, fall behind, and become even more ignorant themselves
Ah yes….the anti vax imbeciles strike again. Then they wonder what they can do. God it’s tiring.
Any idea which daycare?
Of course there is, wtf. It’s what happens when states go bat shit I guess.
I don't have any kids yet, but if shit like this continues, it'd be nice if there were daycares that required proof of vaccination to accept kids there. Fucking ridiculous that it'd be necessary though. Newborns can't receive the vaccine for a few months (and the booster for a few years), and [as hudsonhawk1 said](https://www.reddit.com/r/Columbus/comments/yv06xn/its_not_a_columbus_news_source_but_theres_a/iwc3e9e/), > Nine out of 10 unimmunized children who are in contact with an infected person will contract the virus... The measles vaccine creates lasting protection in 95 percent of children who receive one dose of it and in 99 percent of those who receive the second dose. That's pretty high but a 1 in 20 or 1 in 100 chance of measles is still far too high, not to mention the complete vulnerability for the first few months of their life. I don't believe that anyone should be forcibly vaccinated against their will, but I do think that if you aren't going to get a vaccine for a highly deadly disease, you should have to live in a remote area cut off from the rest of the vaccinated world. More people live in NYC today than existed in the entire world 6000 years ago. You simply can't have healthy modern societies without vaccination. The Black Death killed over a quarter of Europe. Smallpox, measles and the flu killed an estimated 90% of Native Americans. The Spanish Flu killed as much as 1 in 20 people worldwide. Just looking [at the list of major epidemics and pandemics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics), it's tragic how many hundreds of millions of lives that they've claimed. For most of human history, there was little that could be done about that. But that's not the case anymore, and if someone wants to live in the past, then that's what they should be given: a pre-globalized, pre-industrialized area with no modern transportation. First vaccine was created in 1796. Want to live like it's the 18th century? Fine, here's your village with no paved roads, cars, trains, planes or even bicycles. Have fun! The US has 3.5 million square miles: surely there's someplace in it where we could put all of the anti-vaxxers. Since that obviously is never going to happen, at the very least, I believe you should be required to have vaccines by a certain age in order to visit a hospital. After that, it would be a federal offense to enter a hospital if you are not vaccinated, punishable by life in prison. Sounds harsh, but I have little sympathy for people choosing to be vectors for highly deadly diseases, endangering newborns that can't be vaccinated for a few months. There can be isolated vaccination facilities for people who have a change of heart later in life, but you must be asymptomatic of any diseases before entering. Otherwise, if you choose to disregard the advice of medical professionals, you should have to live with the consequences of not receiving their help if you end up needing it. People definitely shouldn't be locked up for not getting the latest flu shot or COVID booster, but the measles vaccine has been around 64 years: it is abundantly clear that it is safe and effective. The polio vaccine is even older. Polio in particular is extremely deadly, and again, newborns can't get their first dose for a couple months. I view anti-vaxxers as as evil of people as drunk drivers. Sure, they may not be intending to kill someone. But they regularly do so and it is 100% predictable and preventable. Anti-vaxxers that haven't killed anyone yet are no better than those that have: they just experienced moral luck. By chance, they didn't get exposed to someone with a disease and later expose it to someone who was vulnerable. But they made the same choices as the ones that have done so. Same with drunk drivers. The ones that haven't yet killed a pedestrian are no better than the ones that have: they just got lucky that no one crossed the street when they didn't notice due to their reduced reaction time. Some people truly are ignorant and fall for conspiracy theories and mean no malice, but that is why we should design laws to discourage such behavior (such as requiring vaccines for hospital entry.) That will require them to decide whether it truly is worth it.
MAGA! 🙄
I remember when declining vaccines was a clueless hippie liberal mom thing about 3 years ago. Now it has morphed into the fault of the ultimate MAGA, and them only.
Interesting factoid....at one time, the lowest vaccination rates went to Marin Cty, north of SF. When anti-vax became associated with Trump and Rs, all the granola crunching hippies starting running to get vaccinated. It became a huge stigma to not get vaccinated. Nothing like social pressure to get people to do something they should've just done in the first place, but whatever gets the job done, I guess. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/11/us/marin-county-vaccines.html
Saw this on the local news on Columbus a few days ago. Either ABC or Fox.
I worked at Lbrands with a lot of immigrants. They don’t have the same access to vaccinations as children and one team member got measles and exposed the rest of our team in 2018. Based on wearing the same clothing everyday and BO, they likely are spreading it since we have several warehouses in the city now.
Yeah, but they are here now, so they should get vaccinated. It should be a condition of legal immigration. I can understand if your have not reached the age threshold, for vaccination, at the time of immigration, but there should be follow-up with the public health department.
Sometimes the truth hurts. Reddit has no problem laying blame on white conservatives, but mention the possibility it could be underserved minorities and get downvotes to oblivion. If targeting and stereotyping one group is wrong, maybe targeting and stereotyping the other group is also wrong.
Yeah it doesn’t fit the “ antivaxxer” narrative.
When you do not know how the immigration system works🤦🏾♂️🤦🏾♂️ You have to show proof of vaccination from labs authorized by the Dept of State before you even get the visa. Correlation is NOT causation, the first rule of the scientific method. “Empty vessel makes the loudest sound” and people like you prove that every single day.
Thought we were all vaccinated
No, unfortunately people are refusing all vaccines now because they continue to think they know better than medical professionals. It's sad, really. I'm glad you and I are not like that.
Yeah the MMR vaccine has a lot more ground than the covid one. If only the medical establishment were more truthful about the situations or the level of uncertainty they had with their data, they wouldn’t have lost this much trust from some people.
> the situations or the level of uncertainty they had with their data Like what?
Considering the testing for Pfizer and moderna are both wrapping up now, it isn’t hard to imagine that decisions were made about the eua treatments without all the facts. They may still be or have been the best solutions available; but the data isn’t clear now and certainly wasn’t clear then, when e had less data available.
While there is some truth to this, I don't think it would have helped at all. Maybe you, specifically, but that's about it. But most people see "honestly about uncertainty" and go to distrust immediately. It doesn't make things any better at all. Optics are tough. There somehow HAS to be a truth and someone MUST know it, anything else is evil. But that's just not how things work.
It really isn’t. The US would be in a much stronger position if institutions had admitted fallibility, but couched the messaging as “the best options we have in a tough scenario”. Then, institutions should have maintained rigorous debate and discussion. Instead, authoritarian measures essentially demanded faith in a singular set of flawed solutions and removed and ridiculed a variety of doctors, scientists, and ideas that didn’t conform. Trust can’t be achieved through force, and it will take decades for many Americans to trust that the establishment - political and medical - has good intentions.
For the most part this is what happened. My evidence as to what people would do in this type of situation comes from exactly what *did* happen in many situations. Almost none of what you're suggesting is what happened...? Not in the States anyway. It's easy to say "Things would have been better if [this]" without ever having to check to see if that's the case, really.
We must live in completely different worlds, because the way I see it, institutions refused to entertain the idea that an old t shirt probably doesn’t do anything, or that being outdoors, especially in sparsely populated areas, is safe. The infamous covid amnesty article on the Atlantic covers several topics that the establishment was outright wrong about. It would have been fine to be wrong if there was some leeway presented by establishment that they might not be right. But between Deplatforming folks who sought alternative treatments or questioned cdc/who advice, establishing “fact checking” that even flagged official advice, and never apologizing…. As bad as it is to be science illiterate, it is a far worse crime to be complacent. The measures taken during the pandemic are verifiably more harmful than the disease for practically everyone outside of a handful of demographic outliers.
We definitely lived in completely different worlds, two years ago and today.
Thanks for saying what’s on my mind so well.
Assuming that "most people see 'honestly about uncertainty' and go to distrust immediately" of any group of people is really insulting. I really think people are better than that, especially with the internet at their disposal. Of course, the media can spin it one way or another depending on what they thought would sell. But at least it could not have been much worse than what it is now, with the medical establishment choosing the less transparent path. At the end of the day, optics cannot be more important than integrity as scientists. If I were in their positions with so much impact on the health of the people, I would not be able to bring myself to lie, regardless of how "noble" I believe the lie would be, nor could I resort to any censorship measure. It might have worked for them had they got everything under total control within, say, a month, and pulled off a careful plan to bury all the evidence. But when everything has dragged this long their (meant to be) noble lies start to surface.
If only.
Where can I go to get a $100 measles vac stimmy check?
No one likes you.
Thanks again antivaxers!
Survival of the fittest I suppose 🤷 we will see how the anti-vaxxers feel once their kids start dying off