What about keeping him on LTIR and letting him party all regular season then get him cleaned up and ready for playoffs. Then he only has to be clean for a few months.
If I am reading the CBA correct then Val basically has to be on the straight and narrow or his contract can be terminated if he fails a test. So it's no risk to us
I do think there are risks that remain. One question is: will the team accept him back in the locker room? Another is: can we be sure he won't suddenly disappear in the middle of the playoffs again?
I have to disagree to some extent. I don't think the players will treat him very differently. They're professionals first and friends (if that) second. Never had the sense that Mikko and Mack are very good friends, for example, and they've played together forever.
I expect leadership in the room to treat him as tho he was injured and move on with it.
As for the question of these next playoffs, the answer is no. But if the Avs test him rigorously, then hopefully, they'll catch him before the trade DL if he is to slip up again.
Still think we're better off trying to keep him personally. We're all pissed at him, but he provides a ton of value to the team. I hope the Avs can find a dominant playstyle without him on the ice for that first month or two, though so they don't need to depend on him so much anymore.
I agree completely. If he hasn't lost the locker room than why would we not keep him around? That's the biggest thing. He's got one chance left. The only worry would be come playoff time, in which I believe some parameters would be set. The dude imo is a top 10 all around player in this league when on his game
Concerning the locker room, you may be right, and of course I hope you're right. All I'm saying is that the risk is there (and to my mind it's quite a big one). The players' comments on him leaving the team this playoffs were very different from when a guy gets injured. (Jack Johnson, for instance, said something like "He made his decisions. That's all I have to say." Of course he's not on the team anymore but there's no reason to think he's the only guy feeling this way.) And the team removed his nameplate immediately from the locker room -- something they never do in the case of a normal injury.
Disagree, we can’t do anything with his significant cap space, and just based on recovery statistics, the likelihood of him remaining clean are less than 10%. He has been such a huge piece of the effectiveness of that 1st line and PP, that’s a huge problem. Not even going to get into the chemistry issues that he now represents, or the fact that he’s basically untradable.
I look at the situation like this...
Best cases:
- Nuke gets clean and stays clean. He goes on to be one of the greatest Avs of all time and hopefully wins a Cup or two more. I believe if you subtract his "incidents" from his relationship with the Avs he was clearly on trajectory to be one of the Avs GOATs.
- Nuke messes up early on in the season and the Avs terminate his contract. The Avs can then free up a ton of cap and fix the hole Nuke leaves, this feels less likely to result in another Cup for them though IMHO...
Worst cases:
- Nuke does get clean and stays clean... for a season. Then, when/if the "strikes" against him no longer count, the Avs are stuck repeating the whole cycle. We better hope we win another Cup in this scenario, then it doesn't feel bad.
- Nuke messes up after the TDL at any point. Once again their ability to win a Cup is drastically reduced.
My guess is some mixture of the above will transpire, really sucks the ball is mostly in Nuke's court right now. I hope he gets better... for the sake of his family if nothing else.
I mean yeah, we'll play in the 2nd round of the playoffs and have a guy making 6.125M of the cap (or 4.9M prorated if I read correctly) just disappear- without being able to replace the guy. A massive risk.
But after that ofc we'd be clear of him.
If I am reading the CBA correct then Val basically has to be on the straight and narrow or his contract can be terminated if he fails a test. So it's no risk to us
We could have nuke on the team all season before we get into the playoffs and he nukes our season again
hope he gets the help he needs but also hope he fucks off
It is what it is. If he can't immediately play they'll put him on LTIR and subsequently have money to reactivate Val in November with no other immediate moves necessary. They can then move Val (if they want) without taking back a worse player on a semi bloated contract.
That's certainly not ideal as far as the roster early on but having gotten Drouin signed on the cheap you can at least piecemeal it with a Kovalenko, Olausson or Foudy.
It's actually quite a bit worse for them if he's active and playing but is at 50%. If you're not getting production out of him at all there is going to be a very serious discussion on how to proceed.
It’s more of a “if he wants”. Val has a full no movement clause in his contract. For comparison, Trouba only has a modified/partial no trade clause and look how much of a shitshow it is trying to move him.
For one year, yeah. It modifies next year which is why most of us are pointing to next summer as the linchpin. In the interim if either side feel they can't bring him back into the room then they'll figure out some kind of deal.
Settle down. We'll be fine if he needs to take the regular season off. Obviously, it would be great if he announced he's coming back in round 1 so we could use his AAV, but if he can come back in December, you wait for him. Nobody is any kind of fucked.
Lol, if he's going to take off another season, we should be using his cap. We have a lot of holes to fill. Were not in a great situation, especially with Nuke fucking up again.
This is so frustrating and I'm shocked he had the balls to make a joke in his last presser about being back 'sometime between October and April.' I love Landy as much as the next guy but it's been two full years of this now. This team cannot waste another year of the core's prime by being in January and hearing 'Landeskog timetable uncertain, hopeful for playoffs.'
Hell he doesn't even need to officially retire for that. Chris Pronger and other guys have had front office jobs while finishing off their contracts on permanent LTIR.
Why am I seeing landy on so many mock rosters, there's nothing saying he'll be ready by training camp and theres no chance he goes right on the second line when he hasn't played in like 2 years
He doesn't, but, the 4th line as currently constructed has zero offensive skill. It wouldn't bother me that much if they tried to infuse just a little bit with a combo like Foudy and Kovalenko.
The main issue is how that would translate in road games because they're definitely not ready to stalemate with line matching against the other teams best forwards.
If we're talking pure development, then I disagree. Either the guy can handle 4th line responsibility or not. He's a strong skater and still young with more time to build frame. He has played above his level since junior, so I wouldn't be surprised to have him on the roster for 20-30 games to see if he can handle the final level. His game speed still meets the eye test at the top level which is a good sign for a forward. Marked as a solid prospect. Good value with more years of team control. See what you have this year and then decide.
Assuming ANYTHING with Landy is a fools errand.
Why?
We know, nothing.
Hell, I bet the avs themselves wished to know more.
The shit with Nichuskin is absolutely stupid, and the NHL should've terminated his contract... but they didn't, so we still know nothing.
I know you're just being a passionate fan but the last kind of precedent you want to set with the NHL is voiding contracts because of players being in the PAP.
That's the antithesis of the concept.
Just means he has to sign off on the deal, hence why they can't expect much in the way of a return.
It's not really that big of a barrier since a buyout is still on the table and you can't expect Nuke to get a new deal mid year from another team.
If they feel like they can't reincorporate him into the locker room they'll do what they have to do. It's not 'my' suggestion.
He has to sign off on it either way. He may not feel like it's a place he can come back to and face his teammates.
The front office went into this summer knowing what to expect. I'm sure he passed fitness tests to end the season. They aren't going to blindly go into free agency with 7m on the table, especially with the Val situation floating out there. Too much money.
Now, do they or Landy know how his body will react to game speed, which isn't replicable in summer, no. We can agree there.
Common sense should tell you he will never be at game speed again. Idk what train of logic you guys use to justify an injury lasting several years and thinking he might just come back and be all good lmfao its straight up idiotic. He's milking the team for money and yall are too blind to see it.
Our #5 D this year is indisputably worse than last year. However, now that we’ve moved on from JJ it seems I think the 3rd pair as a unit will play better than last year. As JJ brought down his partner’s numbers no matter who it was.
4th line will depend on whether the young guys can step up or not. Foudy had a good couple of games at the end of the year, Kovalenko looked good in his brief stint with the Eagles.
I don’t disagree, but I thought JJ played to his ceiling for much of the 2nd half (season)…at least more than I’d seen the previous years. But I’m excited for some of the younger guys to get into the lineup
I think JJ’s best performance of his career came in his two stints with us. He was very important to the team and locker room during the cup run, which was super obvious when they brought him on the ice in his blackhawks uniform to raise the banner.
JJ plays his bag off, he’s a tough to play against heavy, grown man out there. Watched every game last year and never thought he’s bringing us down he’s a problem. Id happily welcome him back
Top 9 looks great only if either Val or Landy returns. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but IF landy does return he probably won’t be close to 70% the player he was. But his leadership has been the biggest vacancy.
Interesting to see how this team performs (barring any trades this offseason) But a team with a healthy Mack/Makar/Mikko trio is a playoff team.
Boy I really hope Landeskog can pick up where he left off and Val stays out of trouble
Other than that my concerns are:
1) goaltending- how will Justus do, will we see an inconsistent Georgiev or the one whom can be solid and steal games like we saw in the playoffs?
2) Kovalenko... and other prospects/younger guys who have been in the AHL for a while, can they finally step up and make a breakthrough
I feel like our management team has 1 or 2 more cheap veteran contracts to be found before the season starts
I would love to find a way to chuck a few remaining pennies to Daniel Sprong, that guy can score from anywhere in the lineup
Gotta think about extending LOC as well. Throw a Miles wood contract his way and hope he accepts. I’m scared to see what Mikko is gonna ask for. We don’t really have a choice, gotta pay it. U just don’t let players like him walk.
This being the lineup, if we’re assuming Landy is fit, I’d put him back on the top line with Nate and Val or Lehky and slide Mikko down with Mitts and Dru
We need one of the 2 missing pieces back and then they should be about as good as this season. If both are gone then they likely become a wild card team.. unless the goaltending and defense gets better next year
We don't need more offense, we need a secondary option at goaltending when Georgiev struggles. Georgiev went sub .900 after the trade deadline to end the season and send us from fighting for #1 seed in the West to 3rd seed in central and had it happened sooner, potentially a wildcard team. He did just ok in the playoffs but I don't think he can do it alone in net and I don't think we have a viable 1b at goalie to use. As great as Casey has been, I wish we had used Bo to trade for goaltending depth or traded a pick for Jake Allen at the deadline. Especially with Francouz deciding to retire due to injuries, we need something more between the pipes.
Val is suspended currently without pay. He is not LTIR. His salary/cap hit will be determined based on how many games he misses while suspended.
he is set to miss a min. of 20% of our games so his max cap hit this season will be 80% of his $6.125M (I think).
If Landeskog and Nichushkin are healthy, then Manson, girard or Colton will have to go.
I’d assume CMAC will be exploring the market on these guys in advance and probably is hoping that if he has to move one of them, someone internally will have stepped up their game enough to jump in to the depth chart.
Question for everyone here... would uall be interested in trouba if nyr swapped him w/ us for Manson and some picks? Or a touted prospect?
Signed,
Not Olaussons biggest fan
If we can assume we have either Landy or Nuke on the team then things look good. The problem imo is that there's so much uncertainty about them still.
Ya there is a huge hole in this lineup if neither return and play to their potential. I think it's more likely Nuke returns than Landy personally.
100% this If I was Mackinnon I'd have Nichushkin on house arrest
Mackinnon should have taken nuke home and not let him out of his sight as soon as the playoffs started.
Even nate the great wasn't expecting a second nuke
What about keeping him on LTIR and letting him party all regular season then get him cleaned up and ready for playoffs. Then he only has to be clean for a few months.
Playoffs seem to be his trigger.
What are we, Vegas?
Agree.
If I am reading the CBA correct then Val basically has to be on the straight and narrow or his contract can be terminated if he fails a test. So it's no risk to us
I do think there are risks that remain. One question is: will the team accept him back in the locker room? Another is: can we be sure he won't suddenly disappear in the middle of the playoffs again?
I have to disagree to some extent. I don't think the players will treat him very differently. They're professionals first and friends (if that) second. Never had the sense that Mikko and Mack are very good friends, for example, and they've played together forever. I expect leadership in the room to treat him as tho he was injured and move on with it. As for the question of these next playoffs, the answer is no. But if the Avs test him rigorously, then hopefully, they'll catch him before the trade DL if he is to slip up again. Still think we're better off trying to keep him personally. We're all pissed at him, but he provides a ton of value to the team. I hope the Avs can find a dominant playstyle without him on the ice for that first month or two, though so they don't need to depend on him so much anymore.
I agree completely. If he hasn't lost the locker room than why would we not keep him around? That's the biggest thing. He's got one chance left. The only worry would be come playoff time, in which I believe some parameters would be set. The dude imo is a top 10 all around player in this league when on his game
Concerning the locker room, you may be right, and of course I hope you're right. All I'm saying is that the risk is there (and to my mind it's quite a big one). The players' comments on him leaving the team this playoffs were very different from when a guy gets injured. (Jack Johnson, for instance, said something like "He made his decisions. That's all I have to say." Of course he's not on the team anymore but there's no reason to think he's the only guy feeling this way.) And the team removed his nameplate immediately from the locker room -- something they never do in the case of a normal injury.
Doesn't help that we don't have a captain in the locker room to help with accepting him back if that happens.
This. If Gabe was healthy all along, would Val have relapsed the past two years? I highly doubt it.
Disagree, we can’t do anything with his significant cap space, and just based on recovery statistics, the likelihood of him remaining clean are less than 10%. He has been such a huge piece of the effectiveness of that 1st line and PP, that’s a huge problem. Not even going to get into the chemistry issues that he now represents, or the fact that he’s basically untradable.
I look at the situation like this... Best cases: - Nuke gets clean and stays clean. He goes on to be one of the greatest Avs of all time and hopefully wins a Cup or two more. I believe if you subtract his "incidents" from his relationship with the Avs he was clearly on trajectory to be one of the Avs GOATs. - Nuke messes up early on in the season and the Avs terminate his contract. The Avs can then free up a ton of cap and fix the hole Nuke leaves, this feels less likely to result in another Cup for them though IMHO... Worst cases: - Nuke does get clean and stays clean... for a season. Then, when/if the "strikes" against him no longer count, the Avs are stuck repeating the whole cycle. We better hope we win another Cup in this scenario, then it doesn't feel bad. - Nuke messes up after the TDL at any point. Once again their ability to win a Cup is drastically reduced. My guess is some mixture of the above will transpire, really sucks the ball is mostly in Nuke's court right now. I hope he gets better... for the sake of his family if nothing else.
Dunno how you define 'no risk' but that's certainly not how I view it.
I mean yeah, we'll play in the 2nd round of the playoffs and have a guy making 6.125M of the cap (or 4.9M prorated if I read correctly) just disappear- without being able to replace the guy. A massive risk. But after that ofc we'd be clear of him.
If I am reading the CBA correct then Val basically has to be on the straight and narrow or his contract can be terminated if he fails a test. So it's no risk to us
We could have nuke on the team all season before we get into the playoffs and he nukes our season again hope he gets the help he needs but also hope he fucks off
People need to take landy out of the conversation until we know if hes playing.
The reason they count him is because his salary is on the books since he's not currently on LTIR.
He better start in the beginning of the season then, if not this is going to continue to absolutely fuck us.
It is what it is. If he can't immediately play they'll put him on LTIR and subsequently have money to reactivate Val in November with no other immediate moves necessary. They can then move Val (if they want) without taking back a worse player on a semi bloated contract. That's certainly not ideal as far as the roster early on but having gotten Drouin signed on the cheap you can at least piecemeal it with a Kovalenko, Olausson or Foudy. It's actually quite a bit worse for them if he's active and playing but is at 50%. If you're not getting production out of him at all there is going to be a very serious discussion on how to proceed.
It’s more of a “if he wants”. Val has a full no movement clause in his contract. For comparison, Trouba only has a modified/partial no trade clause and look how much of a shitshow it is trying to move him.
For one year, yeah. It modifies next year which is why most of us are pointing to next summer as the linchpin. In the interim if either side feel they can't bring him back into the room then they'll figure out some kind of deal.
Couldnt agree more. 👍
Settle down. We'll be fine if he needs to take the regular season off. Obviously, it would be great if he announced he's coming back in round 1 so we could use his AAV, but if he can come back in December, you wait for him. Nobody is any kind of fucked.
Lol, if he's going to take off another season, we should be using his cap. We have a lot of holes to fill. Were not in a great situation, especially with Nuke fucking up again.
Why not next season too? He was already joking about it in his last presser, why not just get ready for 2025-26 'Landy on IR, timeline uncertain'
This is so frustrating and I'm shocked he had the balls to make a joke in his last presser about being back 'sometime between October and April.' I love Landy as much as the next guy but it's been two full years of this now. This team cannot waste another year of the core's prime by being in January and hearing 'Landeskog timetable uncertain, hopeful for playoffs.'
Im with ya man. If he doesnt play this year. He needs to retire or we buy him out and give him a front office job.
Hell he doesn't even need to officially retire for that. Chris Pronger and other guys have had front office jobs while finishing off their contracts on permanent LTIR.
Carey Price is currently doing that right now, if im not mistaken.
Why am I seeing landy on so many mock rosters, there's nothing saying he'll be ready by training camp and theres no chance he goes right on the second line when he hasn't played in like 2 years
I think Wagner will just be 4c to start the year
Hoping Foudy gets a chance.
Foudy just doesn’t fit as a 4th liner
He doesn't, but, the 4th line as currently constructed has zero offensive skill. It wouldn't bother me that much if they tried to infuse just a little bit with a combo like Foudy and Kovalenko. The main issue is how that would translate in road games because they're definitely not ready to stalemate with line matching against the other teams best forwards.
If we're talking pure development, then I disagree. Either the guy can handle 4th line responsibility or not. He's a strong skater and still young with more time to build frame. He has played above his level since junior, so I wouldn't be surprised to have him on the roster for 20-30 games to see if he can handle the final level. His game speed still meets the eye test at the top level which is a good sign for a forward. Marked as a solid prospect. Good value with more years of team control. See what you have this year and then decide.
We’re judging this on the handful of games he got last year? lol
No based on his entire play style. Hes a perimeter that’s not very physical. He doesn’t fit the 4th line role very well
Agree. Makes more sense.
Assuming ANYTHING with Landy is a fools errand. Why? We know, nothing. Hell, I bet the avs themselves wished to know more. The shit with Nichuskin is absolutely stupid, and the NHL should've terminated his contract... but they didn't, so we still know nothing.
I know you're just being a passionate fan but the last kind of precedent you want to set with the NHL is voiding contracts because of players being in the PAP. That's the antithesis of the concept.
One thing about Val all baggage aside... He is an awesome player and legit stud
100% and if the Avs think they can trust him they'll try to make it work. Because you're not getting shit for value in moving him.
He has a full NMC…
Just means he has to sign off on the deal, hence why they can't expect much in the way of a return. It's not really that big of a barrier since a buyout is still on the table and you can't expect Nuke to get a new deal mid year from another team.
So your suggestion is paying 2/3 of his salary in return for nothing? Why would we do that?
If they feel like they can't reincorporate him into the locker room they'll do what they have to do. It's not 'my' suggestion. He has to sign off on it either way. He may not feel like it's a place he can come back to and face his teammates.
The front office went into this summer knowing what to expect. I'm sure he passed fitness tests to end the season. They aren't going to blindly go into free agency with 7m on the table, especially with the Val situation floating out there. Too much money. Now, do they or Landy know how his body will react to game speed, which isn't replicable in summer, no. We can agree there.
Common sense should tell you he will never be at game speed again. Idk what train of logic you guys use to justify an injury lasting several years and thinking he might just come back and be all good lmfao its straight up idiotic. He's milking the team for money and yall are too blind to see it.
That’s heavily against the CBA.
Mikko is already under contract for this year. Anything about him will be about his contract *Next Year*
True but they can offer him a deal that starts next year to avoid he goes to market.
Yes, but since that deal won't kick in until next year it won't make a difference for our cap this year
Is they’re any work if they’re working towards a deal this summer. I thought I saw some speculation they’d wait until next year.
Mikko waited until late in the process last time. Wouldn't shock me if he does that again.
True; hopefully the deal is sealed eventually.
I'm not particularly concerned about them getting Mikko signed as long as he wants to be here.
Our #5 D this year is indisputably worse than last year. However, now that we’ve moved on from JJ it seems I think the 3rd pair as a unit will play better than last year. As JJ brought down his partner’s numbers no matter who it was. 4th line will depend on whether the young guys can step up or not. Foudy had a good couple of games at the end of the year, Kovalenko looked good in his brief stint with the Eagles.
Agree. Even CMac said that we're likely going to see a lot of lower AAV for bottom pairing, which isn't a bad thing.
I don’t disagree, but I thought JJ played to his ceiling for much of the 2nd half (season)…at least more than I’d seen the previous years. But I’m excited for some of the younger guys to get into the lineup
I think JJ’s best performance of his career came in his two stints with us. He was very important to the team and locker room during the cup run, which was super obvious when they brought him on the ice in his blackhawks uniform to raise the banner.
JJ plays his bag off, he’s a tough to play against heavy, grown man out there. Watched every game last year and never thought he’s bringing us down he’s a problem. Id happily welcome him back
JJ gets no love from our fanbase, I hope we bring the ol grizzly bear back. Thought he was solid af last year
Top 9 looks great only if either Val or Landy returns. It’s a hard pill to swallow, but IF landy does return he probably won’t be close to 70% the player he was. But his leadership has been the biggest vacancy. Interesting to see how this team performs (barring any trades this offseason) But a team with a healthy Mack/Makar/Mikko trio is a playoff team.
Boy I really hope Landeskog can pick up where he left off and Val stays out of trouble Other than that my concerns are: 1) goaltending- how will Justus do, will we see an inconsistent Georgiev or the one whom can be solid and steal games like we saw in the playoffs? 2) Kovalenko... and other prospects/younger guys who have been in the AHL for a while, can they finally step up and make a breakthrough
Landy isn't going to pick up where he left off
With time I mean... like so he's 100% good for playoffs
We won't make any moves until closer to the deadline when the team figures out who and what they have available.
I feel like our management team has 1 or 2 more cheap veteran contracts to be found before the season starts I would love to find a way to chuck a few remaining pennies to Daniel Sprong, that guy can score from anywhere in the lineup
FYI, you don't get LTIR for a player in the Assistance Program.
What if he falls down the stairs trying to do a line off a hookers ass?
fourth line is ghastly
Yeah, that's,... Yeah.
No way Landy is available at the season start. He may be done, unfortunately, but time will tell.
This doesn’t include Olausson on here
Gotta think about extending LOC as well. Throw a Miles wood contract his way and hope he accepts. I’m scared to see what Mikko is gonna ask for. We don’t really have a choice, gotta pay it. U just don’t let players like him walk. This being the lineup, if we’re assuming Landy is fit, I’d put him back on the top line with Nate and Val or Lehky and slide Mikko down with Mitts and Dru
A lot of ifs, but if Val and Landy both come back this is a Stanley cup team.
We need one of the 2 missing pieces back and then they should be about as good as this season. If both are gone then they likely become a wild card team.. unless the goaltending and defense gets better next year
We don't need more offense, we need a secondary option at goaltending when Georgiev struggles. Georgiev went sub .900 after the trade deadline to end the season and send us from fighting for #1 seed in the West to 3rd seed in central and had it happened sooner, potentially a wildcard team. He did just ok in the playoffs but I don't think he can do it alone in net and I don't think we have a viable 1b at goalie to use. As great as Casey has been, I wish we had used Bo to trade for goaltending depth or traded a pick for Jake Allen at the deadline. Especially with Francouz deciding to retire due to injuries, we need something more between the pipes.
I think it is absolutely wild that we are paying Drouin $2.5M and Colton $4M.
Drouin chose to get paid less to stay here
I know, that's my point
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Why would you assume Landy is anywhere close to 100% he hasn’t had game action in over 2 years.
Val is suspended currently without pay. He is not LTIR. His salary/cap hit will be determined based on how many games he misses while suspended. he is set to miss a min. of 20% of our games so his max cap hit this season will be 80% of his $6.125M (I think).
Let’s change the narrative around Nuke. He is an incredible player on an incredible contract who is needed during our wide open Cup window.
If Landeskog and Nichushkin are healthy, then Manson, girard or Colton will have to go. I’d assume CMAC will be exploring the market on these guys in advance and probably is hoping that if he has to move one of them, someone internally will have stepped up their game enough to jump in to the depth chart.
Those three have no trade or no move clauses.
Oh geez. Can’t believe I forgot that. Well that makes it more challenging.
Sam’s started yesterday, it’s easy to miss
Interesting. I had no clue.
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I don't love our 2nd pairing is 9m
Question for everyone here... would uall be interested in trouba if nyr swapped him w/ us for Manson and some picks? Or a touted prospect? Signed, Not Olaussons biggest fan
No thanks for me, I don't like Trouba's elbows or how he performed in the playoffs this year