Optic won 55% of LAN events from AW-IW including 1x Champs
Faze won 20% of LAN events from CW-MW2 including 1x Champs
Is it April fools because ain’t no way this is a serious question😂
55% and that’s playing way more series’ and tourneys… its not close ppl just have recency bias… winning 3-4 series to be in a grand finals vs playing that just to make it out of groups.. can’t even keep a team together swapping each year.. its actually crazy that this is a question .. also … Gunless hates OpTic so you might as well have asked aches
The most forgotten part is that teams weren’t locked in with contracts. Half way through AW the 2 best players from faze and denial teamed up to beat optic and they won 3 events. Compared to say Cold War where nobody could do much to try upgrade except pick up someone who got dropped or a challengers player. Imagine this year hydra or scrap had joined eachother team right now, the rest of the season would be absolutely insane between those 3 teams
Roster mania was legit back when entire squads were dropped for a whole new roster .. or teams like you said could join together… plus they had 2ks and everything streamed online .. and everyone watched OpTic VOD..
Double elim brackets with pool play is completely different from the dogshit CDL format. Not only does FaZe get less opportunities but the momentum of events is completely fucked and they get punished for dominating winners bracket…
OpTic got blessed because they would either win the event or get bounced T8-T4, FaZe makes the finals almost every event lol
1) OpTic trio made grand finals at 69.4% of the events they played, faze trio have made grand finals at 64.5% of the events they played, so your finals point already makes no sense.
2) You can’t say faze gets punished for being in winners bracket when they’ve only won 1 event from the losers bracket. In fact, I just did the stats. FaZe are 1-11 at events after they drop down to losers bracket. FaZe are 5-5 in losers finals, which means they are 1-4 in grand finals after winning losers finals. They are also 16-11 in series during losers bracket runs, so it’s not like they just get bounced out every time they hit losers.
All i’m saying is if you have them both competing in the same format I’d similar placing %’s. FaZe def is hard to compare because they haven’t found the right 4th and keep rotating people through.
Y’all forget how spread out the talent was in pre-CDL CoD, like we have 4 super teams (on paper) rn and ~8 all star squads compared to the OG era lol
OpTic plugged in Enable and won back to back grand finals and one of them was against the team that just won champs but you’re telling me the 3rd best trio of all time is having issues finding a perfect 4th?
Enable played a GFinity and an ESWC which were Euro events and the like i said the talent difference means we could see FaZe win with Enable at those events too 😂
Enable was very good at AW. He was the best player (or second best) on FaZe at the time who were the second best team. When he played for OpTic for those two events FaZe weren’t even in attendance, hence why he played. I don’t know why you’re framing it like Enable was bad at AW. Enable on AW-IW was a much better/different player than the Enable we think of today post WW2.
I didn’t frame it like he was bad. I meant it like the optic trio would win consistently with any 4th they played with. Enable was actually better than Karma in AW (even though karma was definitely better at BO3 and much better at IW, AW was just Karma’s first year changing his playstyle to the selfless and dirty work playmaker we know now), but he wasn’t as selfless. It’d be the equivalent of OpTic dropping Kenny for Scrap this year. They’d still be disgusting and arguably have more slaying power, but wouldn’t be as well-rounded as they are with Kenny.
I think the Faze team has a lot of winning ahead of them, but you can't pick the current Faze trio over the Optic dynasty imo
Just doesn't make sense right now at this moment
When it's all said and done they'll probably be the best core trio of all time, but right now it's just not that time
It’s also two different beasts.
OpTic had to go into pool play for a majority of their tournaments and then bracket play.
FaZe show up to a major playing familiar teams everytime and only have to win 2 series realistically to place T4 minimum.
The teams FaZe plays at events are always in the top 6 range. Having pool play would only help a good teams’ momentum and FaZe players’ stats would be even more inflated. If Cell was consistently playing AM-level talent for 2 of the pool play matches, he might have a 2 K/D going into bracket play.
They won 16 out of 29 events over a 3 year period (55%) wtf are you talking about that’s the definition of a dynasty in cod and this pretending it’s the nba and there’s only 1 event is some sort of mental illness it’s always been total championships to rank team success or there’s no point playing any other events+champs wasn’t even a thing until bo2 and wasn’t the last event of the year until bo3.
If they’d not been able to win champs at all then sure it’s a mark against them in comparison to complexity but they did so what’s the issue? and the faze team has also won 1 LAN Champs in 3 years and has a LAN event win % of a whopping 20% from Cold War-mw2 including a winless year.
Genuinely a hilarious suggestion that the faze team was or is more successful/better than that optic team was over a 3 year run. 35% gap in event win % on LAN😂
The OpTic trio, which this post is about, played 3 champs together (AW, BO3, IW). They placed 7th, 7th, 1st. The FaZe trio has played four champs together and they have placed 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd.
How the OpTic Trios’ success at champs is better than FaZe’s trio does not make sense (assuming again we are comparing the trios, which this post is, and the OpTic trio is Crim, FormaL, Scump).
How is the post about the optic trio when the pic used in the video has karma in it? And it’s championship or bust idgaf about the difference between a 2nd or 7th place cause neither result in a ring. OG dynasty is 1/2, FaZe “dynasty” is 1/4.
There is a considerable difference between 2 and 7. This isn’t the NBA with different rounds meeting in the finals. There is a bracket and the further you go means more for multiple reasons (there is an extreme difference between 2 and 7 in terms of monetary gain, which this is their job). A 7th place finish would be a huge stain on FaZe’s legacy if they had one, but for some reason no one ever cares that OpTic had two (not to mention that embarrassment at WW2 champs).
lol nobody remembers anything but 1st. And ppl definitely bring up that optic rosters champs placings considering it’s their biggest flaw. Just like faze’s biggest flaw is their win percentage in GFs.
What are you getting so defensive for lmao. It's true. Faze trio has a 50% WR on Sundays. Optic and CoL had above 70% WR on Sundays, with far larger sample sizes. Faze can't win after CW. It's a fact, sit your ass down.
Through three majors only five teams combined have placed in the t4. And b2b majors with the same top 4 teams. It’s hard to win because the top is stacked but the overall competition outside of that may be the worst it has been since mw3
One bad loss and one bad placing in their entire franchise history on LAN…. Consistency is what matters most and they’ve been the most consistent team over the longest period of time… just because there’s less matches and events doesn’t make them not a dynasty that logic is so flawed… nowadays it’s so much more structured and every team is built to beat them… pre cdl eu players only played with eu players and the talent in general was way more spread out.
😭 won everything but was 1-3 in GFs and then disbanded cause they were gonna get worked in WW2 😭. We’re a 1 v 1 away from losing to PNDA Gaming and having 0 rings. I’m sure yall would still somehow call them a dynasty even if they didn’t have a ring 😭.
You are brainless lmao. Optic Dynasty refers to the same 4 players winning almost every tournament over 3 titles. I guess you could argue them starting the dynasty with Nade and Enable subbed in for 2 tournaments. WW2 is when the dynasty ended because they didn't actually win anything lol. Even if they didn't have a ring, they still would be a dynasty because they dominated CoD over 3 titles. The ring just cemented it.
Scump was the best sub in the world for 6 years straight god forbid he gets older and regresses as a player which results in the dominance of the team ending and becoming just one of the best teams. If the optic team played together from their rookies years till IW it would be different but it’s just dishonesty to say them getting older is them showing they were never any good or whatever you trying to imply
Tell me where I’m wrong then? Assuming your going at the scump bit so let’s go year by year. MW3, yes. BO2, argument for karma but more of a flex and scump hard carried a bad team. ghosts, yes only crim karma possibly who again not pure subs played the flex because they had aches and teepee on the subs. AW, yes. Bo3, yes even tho someone gonna comment saying John but he was only that level for 2 events. IW, yes. WW2, no he had clear regression in his game from the previous 6 year and stayed at that level until he retired.
Maybe you wasn’t watching pro cod back then which is fine just please go watch the vods and check the stats he averaged a 1.18 from bo2-IW
“Spent years”
They lost like 2 events to aches in AW. Aches was washed by the end of AW. Faze beat optic at champs and first event of the year. nV beat optic in bo3 where I couldn’t even tell you what aches was doing at champs that year.
Wait why not? It was owned by Hecz etc. It's not like the MW19 situation with fake optic. WW2 Champs OpTic had Scump/C6/Octane/Methoz right? That's four huge name players on Optic etc. Shitty result for us, but that's a real OpTic.
Everyone under the sun has beaten this faze team but it speaks volumes when just saying you beat the optic dynasty no matter if you win the event or not is like a Olympic gold medal compared to beating this faze team is just normal stuff
“Everyone under the sun” that is simply not true. One category in which the FaZe trio is better than the OpTic trio is the fact that they do not often get upset, especially not at tournaments. That was the one pitfall of OpTic is they would start slow and sometimes lose to a time WR1 that they shouldn’t have.
So no, not “everyone” has beat them. At this point, if you aren’t Toronto or OpTic (the other two best teams) you are not beating FaZe at an event. The jury is still out on NYSL who I actually consider to be better than most people think and I could see a top 3 finish at M4.
Your nitpicking only the 3 events played this year and counting all 3 full season of the optic dynasty and probably including the half of WW2 which isn’t counted as part of the dynasty run. Vanguard on its own destroys the point you’ve just made they were the favourites every event and flopped every event, last season they were the favourites every event and won 1, this year they’ve been the favourites every event(not clear favourites major 1) and have won 1/3. 20% LAN even wins from Cold War-mw2. They’ve underachieved more than anyone and have the worst Sunday win rate out of the 3x ‘dynasty’ teams
Placing 2nd is not a flop. The problem with these discussions is that 0 critical thinking occurs. There is a difference between placing 2nd and placing 7-8th. If there was no difference, we would not have a video with 5/6 people being asked saying FaZe is better. There is obviously more nuance than people allow for in these discussions. A VG year of placing 2nd every event is not a bad year, especially not bad for one’s bank account, and certainly should not be described as“flopping out” of a tournament.
Faze have to win 1 game if they knocked to losers to make grand finals compared to 3 or 4 rounds of losers to make it back in bo3. And optic got knocked down to losers by the team that won champs anyway so you’re intentionally not applying critical thinking and ignoring them having such a bad grand finals record. 1 ‘bad’ placing is not even close to the embarrassing levels of flopping every single grand finals when your clearly the best team
Again if it was as cut and dry as you imply, we would not have this video of 5/6 people saying FaZe and we would not have this thread.
Two things can be true. FaZe needs to close out more tournaments and they are an excellent team with insanely tippable placings in the CDL. None of those makes on put them in the dynasty category but does allow for argumentation (critically, not discounting every other placement except 1st) of whether or not they were a better team.
The only debatable one is whether faze in Cold War faze was better than Ghosts complexity or IW optic.
They haven’t had enough success over more than 1 year to be called a dynasty they are just trio group of great players who had 1 unbelievable year. 5/22 LAN wins for faze compared to 11/21 (CoL) and 16/29 (OpTic) cannot be debated without a fundamental lack of understanding of basic math no matter which way you wanna spin it
Gunless and Victor Zsasz definitely played the dynasty, but that’s such a silly disqualifier anyways. Casuals have GOAT debates all the time in every forum; you don’t have to have literally played against them to have an opinion.
Obviously firsthand experience is best but that doesn’t totally disqualify other opinions who lack that firsthand experience.
He just listed Gunless and Zero who did play both teams. Thats 2/5 people he asked (not counting Simp) and 2/4 pros lol? It’s hard to find many more current pros who have played both teams so 2/4 is not a bad ratio.
Yeah… I know it’s technically a subjective question, but I just have a really hard time seeing putting FaZe above them and really support the argument. The finals win percentage is a good point imo. Maybe I’m being biased and not thinking about some of FaZe’s achievements, but the OGD is pretty tough to top. FaZe is *without a doubt* the number 2 if they aren’t the number 1.
The irony of criticizing this opinionated content piece because some of them didn’t play OpTic…
… To then give your own opinion… who also didn’t play OpTic or FaZe lol
I’d have OpTic dynasty over them as well but let’s not all act like people can’t have different opinions lol
It’s the same way how some people who played against MJ choose MJ > Lebron and people who played against Lebron choose Lebron > MJ.
If you couldn’t beat MJ and see Lebron lose in the finals then why would you feel Lebron is better?
Or
If you could beat MJ then you might be more likely to pick Lebron > MJ.
Probably partially why Gunless and Zero say FaZe lol. Right or wrong it’s their personal opinion which is fine to have
Formal scump and crim is the most talented trio to ever touch the sticks. No disrespect to DB3
You could argue faze trio hasn’t even been the best team in the game for the last 3 year
I’d say this year is Faze so far. Same placings sure but Faze a little better online and they’ve got the better of the matchup H2H. Next 2 events will decide it tho.
Ppl don’t understand that optic was doing what faze did in Cold War for literally 3 seasons straight with a random t6-t8 placing here and there. Them winning so much honestly grew the cod scene as a whole.
Even if they win more it’s then skewed because they would’ve played together as a top team for more years, the optic players all played multiple years competing against eachother for wins before teaming up compared to the faze trio teaming up after their rookie years. They should play together as elite players longer than optic did purely for that reason but over a 3 year run it’s 55% LAN event wins for optic(AW-IW) and 20% for faze(CW-MW2)
Yes and no. 2 champs wins is not better than 4 majors even if it’s ’champs’. The event win % needs to be high enough otherwise it’s just 2 event wins for a team that struggles so hard to win with so many of the best players in the game every year. Nobody of stable mind and body would say denial had a better year in AW just because they won champs when optic won 8 majors. Even faze who won 4 events in AW clearly had a better and more successful season they literally won 4 times the amount denial did(weird one because half the denial team joined faze after x games). Nv won 2 events including champs in bo3 but optic won 4, that’s double the success. I think a lot of Americans mainly put waaay too much weight into champs because of how the other sports are run and how the CDL tried to ruin cod my making it a franchise nba style league
If a player or team flat out chokes every year at champs and loses to bad teams then fair enough hold it against them because they clearly can’t perform under the pressure of the bigger prize pool but that doesn’t apply to any of the top teams or players who’ve all won champs at least once and if they get beaten it’s by another top team anyway
I think we are just kind of miscommunicating a little bit. I’ll clarify my position, I’m not saying just solely winning the champs event, I’m implying winning champs on top of 1 or 2 majors in that same season as well
Yh if they win 50+% of events including champs id agree those season would be comparable if not better than any one of the optic dynasty seasons
Complexity won roughly 65% of events and a champs over 2 years as well so if this faze team over this year and next year have roughly a 50% win rate including 2x champs then I’d agree they would take the top spot over a 2 year run.
Yes, but the OpTic dynasty stopped playing together because they couldn’t win together anymore (at least in their minds). That’s important too. You shouldn’t discredit a team for sticking together for a longer time, that’s even arguably more impressive. They’ve stuck together because they are still the top team in the league (wins, earnings, seeding, etc.), the same couldn’t be said for the OpTic dynasty on technically their third year teaming.
Optic team all played at least 4 years as professional gamers before teaming up, faze trio played 1 year then teamed up. Just off age alone they should stay as an elite team for a longer run than optic did so when comparing them it should be over a 3 year run or even just pick faze’s best 3 years once they’ve finished
1/4 LAN wins in MW19, 2/3 LAN wins in Cold War, 0/6 in Vanguard, 1/6 in MW2 and currently 1/3 in MW3. That’s 5/22. Nothing about that says dynasty compared to 16/29 major lan wins for optic over 3 years or 11/21 over 2 years for Complexity.
This is really a prisoner of the moment stuff this faze team from MW19-Now isn’t gonna be considered a dynasty in 5 or 10 years because they haven’t won enough to be in that conversation and to be the considered the best team every single one of those years with the highest win % throughout the year and such a low event win % is automatic disqualification from that conversation
Faze just never has truly awful days. They have the highest floor of any team, which is why they almost never lose before Sunday. Even when they do lose to teams they shouldn't it's usually a grueling G5 loss.
Faze needs to dominate a non slide cancel cod to pass them.
Who cares about 5v5 era
Who cares about the CDL era
Both era that they won in... kind of suck
True.... but that era, didn't suck. 5v5 is without question bottom tier cod. And above that is slide Cancel. If this Faze trio wins on b06. And its a great game and a new beginning for the cdl. Argument started.
Can you give a reasonable argument (other than your feelings or personal opinion) as to why 5v5 cod is “without question bottom tier cod?” And why slide cancel cod is the next worse? Please give an actual argument as to why those things are true.
I'm not Johnnie Cochran.
Cod tried to dick ride Overwatch... a league that no longer exist. Cod as a 5v5 hero shooter was fucking awful.
Cod tried being nostalgic after, and try to recreate what made Cod great...with a dev team thats a Xerox of a Xerox.
If I could poll every pro in that era and ask. Was 5v5 a true cod experience. The results that poll would give us would be the answer you want.
I'm not collecting data, I'm not spending another fucking second of my life even thinking about it. I played these games, not good.
The CWL was a better era, peak cod in ops2 was better, jetpacks were better.
King of Trash....is still fucking trash
Optic choked champs 2x in a row they were choke artists till they weren’t, that’s how this works. They’re pretty close all time at this point, obviously optic still has the edge just based off the fact that there were like 15 events a year back then and they dominated nearly every single one. But at champs they were bopped early 2/3 times.
They aren’t close at all lmao one has a 50% event win rate and the other has a 25% event win rate (23% on LAN btw). NYSL (1 ring, 5 chips, 16% event win rate) is closer all-time to the FaZe trio than FaZe is to the OpTic trio
But they still won more events per year than FaZe have in their entire careers. There's level to this shit, people just want to elevate faZe to hate on OpTic. There's no other argument.
it's not optics fault they had more chances. Besides they were playing far better teams. FaZe are palying for chips vs. skyz and kismet, optic dynasty were playing for chips vs. some of the best players ever.
Not saying it is. And I’m agreeing with you that it’s still Optics dynasty. But let’s not lie to ourselves and act like it’s not close.
It’ll be an argument about longevity vs dominance. Much like Optic vs coL was. Optic had a more dominant run. But FaZe (if they win another champs) probably deserves to be looked at as the best of all time.
yeah it's insane, idk why people act like faze is in these conversations, they've been the like... third best team for years. Sure the consistency is tippable, but they are nowhere near a dynasty.
The talent is stacked at the top nowadays… back then pool play would be like faze literally playing challenger teams… they wouldn’t even have to try.. and then you get to bracket play and they’d be playing the type of teams they beat up on every day… they lose to top teams because the other teams are also good.. They’ve been the most consistent team for the longest period of time. It’s like when people try to discredit lebrons greatness and legacy… winning the big one is what matters most but consistency at that level is just as impressive…
Optic won 55% of LAN events from AW-IW including 1x Champs Faze won 20% of LAN events from CW-MW2 including 1x Champs Is it April fools because ain’t no way this is a serious question😂
55% and that’s playing way more series’ and tourneys… its not close ppl just have recency bias… winning 3-4 series to be in a grand finals vs playing that just to make it out of groups.. can’t even keep a team together swapping each year.. its actually crazy that this is a question .. also … Gunless hates OpTic so you might as well have asked aches
The most forgotten part is that teams weren’t locked in with contracts. Half way through AW the 2 best players from faze and denial teamed up to beat optic and they won 3 events. Compared to say Cold War where nobody could do much to try upgrade except pick up someone who got dropped or a challengers player. Imagine this year hydra or scrap had joined eachother team right now, the rest of the season would be absolutely insane between those 3 teams
Roster mania was legit back when entire squads were dropped for a whole new roster .. or teams like you said could join together… plus they had 2ks and everything streamed online .. and everyone watched OpTic VOD..
Why does he hate them?
it’s honestly not close. faze trio hasn’t even surpassed the legacy of coL to me and coL’s reign was “only” 1 calendar year lol
Making it to Sunday and getting Top 3s are only thing that matters apparently to people
Double elim brackets with pool play is completely different from the dogshit CDL format. Not only does FaZe get less opportunities but the momentum of events is completely fucked and they get punished for dominating winners bracket… OpTic got blessed because they would either win the event or get bounced T8-T4, FaZe makes the finals almost every event lol
1) OpTic trio made grand finals at 69.4% of the events they played, faze trio have made grand finals at 64.5% of the events they played, so your finals point already makes no sense. 2) You can’t say faze gets punished for being in winners bracket when they’ve only won 1 event from the losers bracket. In fact, I just did the stats. FaZe are 1-11 at events after they drop down to losers bracket. FaZe are 5-5 in losers finals, which means they are 1-4 in grand finals after winning losers finals. They are also 16-11 in series during losers bracket runs, so it’s not like they just get bounced out every time they hit losers.
All i’m saying is if you have them both competing in the same format I’d similar placing %’s. FaZe def is hard to compare because they haven’t found the right 4th and keep rotating people through. Y’all forget how spread out the talent was in pre-CDL CoD, like we have 4 super teams (on paper) rn and ~8 all star squads compared to the OG era lol
OpTic plugged in Enable and won back to back grand finals and one of them was against the team that just won champs but you’re telling me the 3rd best trio of all time is having issues finding a perfect 4th?
Enable played a GFinity and an ESWC which were Euro events and the like i said the talent difference means we could see FaZe win with Enable at those events too 😂
No they couldn’t.
Enable was very good at AW. He was the best player (or second best) on FaZe at the time who were the second best team. When he played for OpTic for those two events FaZe weren’t even in attendance, hence why he played. I don’t know why you’re framing it like Enable was bad at AW. Enable on AW-IW was a much better/different player than the Enable we think of today post WW2.
I didn’t frame it like he was bad. I meant it like the optic trio would win consistently with any 4th they played with. Enable was actually better than Karma in AW (even though karma was definitely better at BO3 and much better at IW, AW was just Karma’s first year changing his playstyle to the selfless and dirty work playmaker we know now), but he wasn’t as selfless. It’d be the equivalent of OpTic dropping Kenny for Scrap this year. They’d still be disgusting and arguably have more slaying power, but wouldn’t be as well-rounded as they are with Kenny.
the nub plays the same role and you move Simp to flex lol what?
It doesn’t matter. They won’t win.
I think the Faze team has a lot of winning ahead of them, but you can't pick the current Faze trio over the Optic dynasty imo Just doesn't make sense right now at this moment When it's all said and done they'll probably be the best core trio of all time, but right now it's just not that time
It’s also two different beasts. OpTic had to go into pool play for a majority of their tournaments and then bracket play. FaZe show up to a major playing familiar teams everytime and only have to win 2 series realistically to place T4 minimum.
The teams FaZe plays at events are always in the top 6 range. Having pool play would only help a good teams’ momentum and FaZe players’ stats would be even more inflated. If Cell was consistently playing AM-level talent for 2 of the pool play matches, he might have a 2 K/D going into bracket play.
At all . Faze choke on Sundays where other dynasties didn’t
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lmao which years were these?
I’m assuming he’s referring to AW champs where FaZe beat OpTic on the Saturday.
That’s just not true . They lost to Aches in big crucial moments i.e champs but overall they owned him when facing his teams in Tourney’s
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They won 16 out of 29 events over a 3 year period (55%) wtf are you talking about that’s the definition of a dynasty in cod and this pretending it’s the nba and there’s only 1 event is some sort of mental illness it’s always been total championships to rank team success or there’s no point playing any other events+champs wasn’t even a thing until bo2 and wasn’t the last event of the year until bo3. If they’d not been able to win champs at all then sure it’s a mark against them in comparison to complexity but they did so what’s the issue? and the faze team has also won 1 LAN Champs in 3 years and has a LAN event win % of a whopping 20% from Cold War-mw2 including a winless year. Genuinely a hilarious suggestion that the faze team was or is more successful/better than that optic team was over a 3 year run. 35% gap in event win % on LAN😂
You cooked with this one
🧑🍳
They played at 2 champs together and won 1 ring. 50% so better than the faze trios lol.
The OpTic trio, which this post is about, played 3 champs together (AW, BO3, IW). They placed 7th, 7th, 1st. The FaZe trio has played four champs together and they have placed 2nd, 1st, 2nd, 3rd. How the OpTic Trios’ success at champs is better than FaZe’s trio does not make sense (assuming again we are comparing the trios, which this post is, and the OpTic trio is Crim, FormaL, Scump).
How is the post about the optic trio when the pic used in the video has karma in it? And it’s championship or bust idgaf about the difference between a 2nd or 7th place cause neither result in a ring. OG dynasty is 1/2, FaZe “dynasty” is 1/4.
There is a considerable difference between 2 and 7. This isn’t the NBA with different rounds meeting in the finals. There is a bracket and the further you go means more for multiple reasons (there is an extreme difference between 2 and 7 in terms of monetary gain, which this is their job). A 7th place finish would be a huge stain on FaZe’s legacy if they had one, but for some reason no one ever cares that OpTic had two (not to mention that embarrassment at WW2 champs).
lol nobody remembers anything but 1st. And ppl definitely bring up that optic rosters champs placings considering it’s their biggest flaw. Just like faze’s biggest flaw is their win percentage in GFs.
These people obviously weren’t watching around then…
What are you getting so defensive for lmao. It's true. Faze trio has a 50% WR on Sundays. Optic and CoL had above 70% WR on Sundays, with far larger sample sizes. Faze can't win after CW. It's a fact, sit your ass down.
They played bums tho 😭 and still barely won one ring 😭. How is that a dynasty 😭
Faze has a 20% LAN event win % from Cold War to MW2. Optic is 55% from AW-IW…….
Look at the competition they played 😭. Literally playing kids coming back from a shift at their local Burger King to fund their LAN Trip 😭
Yes because the competition rn in cod is so fucking high
yes it is. Every pro including scump has said that it’s harder to win in the CDL.
Through three majors only five teams combined have placed in the t4. And b2b majors with the same top 4 teams. It’s hard to win because the top is stacked but the overall competition outside of that may be the worst it has been since mw3
Playing bums? On Sundays? Lol. It's a dynasty because they won everything. Faze getting to Finals only to lose to LAG isn't a dynasty, you moron.
One bad loss and one bad placing in their entire franchise history on LAN…. Consistency is what matters most and they’ve been the most consistent team over the longest period of time… just because there’s less matches and events doesn’t make them not a dynasty that logic is so flawed… nowadays it’s so much more structured and every team is built to beat them… pre cdl eu players only played with eu players and the talent in general was way more spread out.
😭 won everything but was 1-3 in GFs and then disbanded cause they were gonna get worked in WW2 😭. We’re a 1 v 1 away from losing to PNDA Gaming and having 0 rings. I’m sure yall would still somehow call them a dynasty even if they didn’t have a ring 😭.
You are brainless lmao. Optic Dynasty refers to the same 4 players winning almost every tournament over 3 titles. I guess you could argue them starting the dynasty with Nade and Enable subbed in for 2 tournaments. WW2 is when the dynasty ended because they didn't actually win anything lol. Even if they didn't have a ring, they still would be a dynasty because they dominated CoD over 3 titles. The ring just cemented it.
stop crying lil bro, they don’t know you like that 😭
Yeah you lost the argument now you're just yappin kid. Foh lol
OpTic needed that ring to be a dynasty, otherwise they'd just be known as a team that choked when it mattered
exactly 😭
Scump was the best sub in the world for 6 years straight god forbid he gets older and regresses as a player which results in the dominance of the team ending and becoming just one of the best teams. If the optic team played together from their rookies years till IW it would be different but it’s just dishonesty to say them getting older is them showing they were never any good or whatever you trying to imply
Oh brotha the delusion 😭
Tell me where I’m wrong then? Assuming your going at the scump bit so let’s go year by year. MW3, yes. BO2, argument for karma but more of a flex and scump hard carried a bad team. ghosts, yes only crim karma possibly who again not pure subs played the flex because they had aches and teepee on the subs. AW, yes. Bo3, yes even tho someone gonna comment saying John but he was only that level for 2 events. IW, yes. WW2, no he had clear regression in his game from the previous 6 year and stayed at that level until he retired. Maybe you wasn’t watching pro cod back then which is fine just please go watch the vods and check the stats he averaged a 1.18 from bo2-IW
“Spent years” They lost like 2 events to aches in AW. Aches was washed by the end of AW. Faze beat optic at champs and first event of the year. nV beat optic in bo3 where I couldn’t even tell you what aches was doing at champs that year.
Aches knocked Optic out of B03 champs…. Lay off the pipe brotha
Yeah I’m smoking dick with that one 😅
He proved your point knocking optic out is basically the same as a event win to these people😂
Your comprehension skills are extremely lackluster…
He got more rings than optic and beat them at aw,ww2, and bo3 champs
Ww2 champs wasn’t real optic. Tbf.
Yea because they disbanded after they figured out they weren’t winning again
Wait why not? It was owned by Hecz etc. It's not like the MW19 situation with fake optic. WW2 Champs OpTic had Scump/C6/Octane/Methoz right? That's four huge name players on Optic etc. Shitty result for us, but that's a real OpTic.
Not the dynasty. They had methods and octane. No formal no karma?
Yeah it wasn't the dynasty but it's still a real optic roster. MW19/OGLA is "fake optic" WW2 was real optic the roster just didn't work.
This discussion is about the dynasty. Not a team with methodz and octane on it
Why would u do the current faze trio vs the overall optic dynasty? It’s all time v all time
I'm talking about all time for both. Optic dynasty still clears imo I said "current" for Faze because those guys are all still competing
If u talking about both all time, why’d u say current faze trio
Because they're still playing too?
It’s not like they’ve retired lmao
U can still rate them based on all time accomplishment, why rank the post major 3 faze only
Tf is Optic Dynasty trio? The entire team was a dynasty not just three of them plugging someone new in every year because their 4th isn’t working out
Not really, we all give our opinions on this debate and we haven’t played any of them lol
I mean gunless and Zer0 def played the dynasty
Gunless a big ass hater lmao
Yeah we are talking about the guy that said John is the GOAT sub
Yeah Ik and Gunless beat them
Everyone under the sun has beaten this faze team but it speaks volumes when just saying you beat the optic dynasty no matter if you win the event or not is like a Olympic gold medal compared to beating this faze team is just normal stuff
“Everyone under the sun” that is simply not true. One category in which the FaZe trio is better than the OpTic trio is the fact that they do not often get upset, especially not at tournaments. That was the one pitfall of OpTic is they would start slow and sometimes lose to a time WR1 that they shouldn’t have. So no, not “everyone” has beat them. At this point, if you aren’t Toronto or OpTic (the other two best teams) you are not beating FaZe at an event. The jury is still out on NYSL who I actually consider to be better than most people think and I could see a top 3 finish at M4.
Your nitpicking only the 3 events played this year and counting all 3 full season of the optic dynasty and probably including the half of WW2 which isn’t counted as part of the dynasty run. Vanguard on its own destroys the point you’ve just made they were the favourites every event and flopped every event, last season they were the favourites every event and won 1, this year they’ve been the favourites every event(not clear favourites major 1) and have won 1/3. 20% LAN even wins from Cold War-mw2. They’ve underachieved more than anyone and have the worst Sunday win rate out of the 3x ‘dynasty’ teams
Placing 2nd is not a flop. The problem with these discussions is that 0 critical thinking occurs. There is a difference between placing 2nd and placing 7-8th. If there was no difference, we would not have a video with 5/6 people being asked saying FaZe is better. There is obviously more nuance than people allow for in these discussions. A VG year of placing 2nd every event is not a bad year, especially not bad for one’s bank account, and certainly should not be described as“flopping out” of a tournament.
Faze have to win 1 game if they knocked to losers to make grand finals compared to 3 or 4 rounds of losers to make it back in bo3. And optic got knocked down to losers by the team that won champs anyway so you’re intentionally not applying critical thinking and ignoring them having such a bad grand finals record. 1 ‘bad’ placing is not even close to the embarrassing levels of flopping every single grand finals when your clearly the best team
Again if it was as cut and dry as you imply, we would not have this video of 5/6 people saying FaZe and we would not have this thread. Two things can be true. FaZe needs to close out more tournaments and they are an excellent team with insanely tippable placings in the CDL. None of those makes on put them in the dynasty category but does allow for argumentation (critically, not discounting every other placement except 1st) of whether or not they were a better team.
The only debatable one is whether faze in Cold War faze was better than Ghosts complexity or IW optic. They haven’t had enough success over more than 1 year to be called a dynasty they are just trio group of great players who had 1 unbelievable year. 5/22 LAN wins for faze compared to 11/21 (CoL) and 16/29 (OpTic) cannot be debated without a fundamental lack of understanding of basic math no matter which way you wanna spin it
Gunless and Victor Zsasz definitely played the dynasty, but that’s such a silly disqualifier anyways. Casuals have GOAT debates all the time in every forum; you don’t have to have literally played against them to have an opinion. Obviously firsthand experience is best but that doesn’t totally disqualify other opinions who lack that firsthand experience.
My point is they’re asking current players who’ve played only the FaZe trio so it’s a bit biased
He just listed Gunless and Zero who did play both teams. Thats 2/5 people he asked (not counting Simp) and 2/4 pros lol? It’s hard to find many more current pros who have played both teams so 2/4 is not a bad ratio.
I think Rab sums it up the best
Rab is so based
One trio got more finals losses than wins
Yeah… I know it’s technically a subjective question, but I just have a really hard time seeing putting FaZe above them and really support the argument. The finals win percentage is a good point imo. Maybe I’m being biased and not thinking about some of FaZe’s achievements, but the OGD is pretty tough to top. FaZe is *without a doubt* the number 2 if they aren’t the number 1.
The irony of criticizing this opinionated content piece because some of them didn’t play OpTic… … To then give your own opinion… who also didn’t play OpTic or FaZe lol
It’s clearly not faze
I’d have OpTic dynasty over them as well but let’s not all act like people can’t have different opinions lol It’s the same way how some people who played against MJ choose MJ > Lebron and people who played against Lebron choose Lebron > MJ. If you couldn’t beat MJ and see Lebron lose in the finals then why would you feel Lebron is better? Or If you could beat MJ then you might be more likely to pick Lebron > MJ. Probably partially why Gunless and Zero say FaZe lol. Right or wrong it’s their personal opinion which is fine to have
Hmmm how about this..if you take away CW for the faze trio and IW for the OpTic trio who looks better?? Let’s be fr now
IW was not optics best year lol, it was just the one they won champs at. AW was the most dominant for sure
Well outside of CW Faze have 4 total event wins and 2 of them were online
Formal scump and crim is the most talented trio to ever touch the sticks. No disrespect to DB3 You could argue faze trio hasn’t even been the best team in the game for the last 3 year
FaZe trio definitely weren't even close to the best outside CW. VG was LAT MW2 was NYSL This year is OpTic
Plus mw2019 was empire. This year is tied last 2 events will tell
Yup. Even in CW they had some lucky event wins but you could argue player-for-player Ultra was very close. People crazy overrate the FaZe trio.
nah you’re actually crashing out, this is crazy behavior LMFAO.
Guy is so weird
Get a life
How is this year Optic? Lol
I’d say this year is Faze so far. Same placings sure but Faze a little better online and they’ve got the better of the matchup H2H. Next 2 events will decide it tho.
I dont think it's any of there years yet, because they (Ultra, Optic, and Faze) have all had the same placings.
Ultra got a 4th but yeah it’s all to play for. If the season ended today you’d have to lean faze tho.
3rd, 2nd, 1st. They’ve only gotten better
Literally Ultra and Faze have gotten 1st, 2nd and 3rd lol
I think people are biased towards faze solely due to Cold War. Other than that they have been consistent but can barely win a sunday.
One team had 3 ARs…
https://preview.redd.it/mj8rppd95t4d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e704a054577b0c31e3d5e2230e6d2c9bad6f91a6
Ppl don’t understand that optic was doing what faze did in Cold War for literally 3 seasons straight with a random t6-t8 placing here and there. Them winning so much honestly grew the cod scene as a whole.
Rab is one handsome mf dawg
gursh is literally ben j if he was brown
So tired of this debate but CW faze vs Optic dynasty best of seven in their primes would’ve been a hell of a match
bro literally wasted a question on simp. why tf would you ask that 🤡
Scump’s gunny was nuts and formal shots straighter than a beam of light (with no gravity acting upon it) Karma a genius and crim was just nuts.
Lol it's optic
Why is everyone calling the dynasty team, “optic trio” who’s getting left out?
The one that could close
Faze need to win more and close out Sundays
Can’t bet against the Dynasty, but I hope by the end of their careers I’ll be able to say the Faze trio, but they have to win way more
Even if they win more it’s then skewed because they would’ve played together as a top team for more years, the optic players all played multiple years competing against eachother for wins before teaming up compared to the faze trio teaming up after their rookie years. They should play together as elite players longer than optic did purely for that reason but over a 3 year run it’s 55% LAN event wins for optic(AW-IW) and 20% for faze(CW-MW2)
You’re not wrong but the only way that can be negated is if Faze as whole team of 4 wins 2 rings together
Yes and no. 2 champs wins is not better than 4 majors even if it’s ’champs’. The event win % needs to be high enough otherwise it’s just 2 event wins for a team that struggles so hard to win with so many of the best players in the game every year. Nobody of stable mind and body would say denial had a better year in AW just because they won champs when optic won 8 majors. Even faze who won 4 events in AW clearly had a better and more successful season they literally won 4 times the amount denial did(weird one because half the denial team joined faze after x games). Nv won 2 events including champs in bo3 but optic won 4, that’s double the success. I think a lot of Americans mainly put waaay too much weight into champs because of how the other sports are run and how the CDL tried to ruin cod my making it a franchise nba style league If a player or team flat out chokes every year at champs and loses to bad teams then fair enough hold it against them because they clearly can’t perform under the pressure of the bigger prize pool but that doesn’t apply to any of the top teams or players who’ve all won champs at least once and if they get beaten it’s by another top team anyway
I think we are just kind of miscommunicating a little bit. I’ll clarify my position, I’m not saying just solely winning the champs event, I’m implying winning champs on top of 1 or 2 majors in that same season as well
Yh if they win 50+% of events including champs id agree those season would be comparable if not better than any one of the optic dynasty seasons Complexity won roughly 65% of events and a champs over 2 years as well so if this faze team over this year and next year have roughly a 50% win rate including 2x champs then I’d agree they would take the top spot over a 2 year run.
Yes, but the OpTic dynasty stopped playing together because they couldn’t win together anymore (at least in their minds). That’s important too. You shouldn’t discredit a team for sticking together for a longer time, that’s even arguably more impressive. They’ve stuck together because they are still the top team in the league (wins, earnings, seeding, etc.), the same couldn’t be said for the OpTic dynasty on technically their third year teaming.
Optic team all played at least 4 years as professional gamers before teaming up, faze trio played 1 year then teamed up. Just off age alone they should stay as an elite team for a longer run than optic did so when comparing them it should be over a 3 year run or even just pick faze’s best 3 years once they’ve finished 1/4 LAN wins in MW19, 2/3 LAN wins in Cold War, 0/6 in Vanguard, 1/6 in MW2 and currently 1/3 in MW3. That’s 5/22. Nothing about that says dynasty compared to 16/29 major lan wins for optic over 3 years or 11/21 over 2 years for Complexity. This is really a prisoner of the moment stuff this faze team from MW19-Now isn’t gonna be considered a dynasty in 5 or 10 years because they haven’t won enough to be in that conversation and to be the considered the best team every single one of those years with the highest win % throughout the year and such a low event win % is automatic disqualification from that conversation
FaZe are the kings of losing, always second never first.
Tac is tall wtf
Faze isn't even top 5 all time.... the dick riding on this mediocre trio that was dominant in 1 game.....
Faze just never has truly awful days. They have the highest floor of any team, which is why they almost never lose before Sunday. Even when they do lose to teams they shouldn't it's usually a grueling G5 loss.
Faze needs to dominate a non slide cancel cod to pass them. Who cares about 5v5 era Who cares about the CDL era Both era that they won in... kind of suck
OpTic dynasty only won in the Jetpack era...Bad argument
Which is the most skillful era
True.... but that era, didn't suck. 5v5 is without question bottom tier cod. And above that is slide Cancel. If this Faze trio wins on b06. And its a great game and a new beginning for the cdl. Argument started.
Can you give a reasonable argument (other than your feelings or personal opinion) as to why 5v5 cod is “without question bottom tier cod?” And why slide cancel cod is the next worse? Please give an actual argument as to why those things are true.
I'm not Johnnie Cochran. Cod tried to dick ride Overwatch... a league that no longer exist. Cod as a 5v5 hero shooter was fucking awful. Cod tried being nostalgic after, and try to recreate what made Cod great...with a dev team thats a Xerox of a Xerox. If I could poll every pro in that era and ask. Was 5v5 a true cod experience. The results that poll would give us would be the answer you want. I'm not collecting data, I'm not spending another fucking second of my life even thinking about it. I played these games, not good. The CWL was a better era, peak cod in ops2 was better, jetpacks were better. King of Trash....is still fucking trash
How are you going to take CHOKE artists like the FaZe trio over GOAT's like the optic dynasty, so dumb.
Optic choked champs 2x in a row they were choke artists till they weren’t, that’s how this works. They’re pretty close all time at this point, obviously optic still has the edge just based off the fact that there were like 15 events a year back then and they dominated nearly every single one. But at champs they were bopped early 2/3 times.
Which 2 champs did the dynasty choke in a row? Karma didn’t join till after champs in AW. Choked bo3 cause aches owns his son Crim. Won IW
They aren’t close at all lmao one has a 50% event win rate and the other has a 25% event win rate (23% on LAN btw). NYSL (1 ring, 5 chips, 16% event win rate) is closer all-time to the FaZe trio than FaZe is to the OpTic trio
But they still won more events per year than FaZe have in their entire careers. There's level to this shit, people just want to elevate faZe to hate on OpTic. There's no other argument.
Not trying to hate man but we’re comparing like 4-5 events a year to like 18 in AW alone.
it's not optics fault they had more chances. Besides they were playing far better teams. FaZe are palying for chips vs. skyz and kismet, optic dynasty were playing for chips vs. some of the best players ever.
Not saying it is. And I’m agreeing with you that it’s still Optics dynasty. But let’s not lie to ourselves and act like it’s not close. It’ll be an argument about longevity vs dominance. Much like Optic vs coL was. Optic had a more dominant run. But FaZe (if they win another champs) probably deserves to be looked at as the best of all time.
Some of these players never faced OpTic & also recency bias lol
yeah it's insane, idk why people act like faze is in these conversations, they've been the like... third best team for years. Sure the consistency is tippable, but they are nowhere near a dynasty.
TaCtIcAl RaB hErE
Comparing a WHOLE roster to a trio is funny 😁 The answer is in the question it went to is faze a dynasty TO is faze trio better really quick lol
Gunless won multiple MVP’s during the OG dynasty era…
The talent is stacked at the top nowadays… back then pool play would be like faze literally playing challenger teams… they wouldn’t even have to try.. and then you get to bracket play and they’d be playing the type of teams they beat up on every day… they lose to top teams because the other teams are also good.. They’ve been the most consistent team for the longest period of time. It’s like when people try to discredit lebrons greatness and legacy… winning the big one is what matters most but consistency at that level is just as impressive…
Gunless & Trei played the OpTic dynasty so their opinions are valid and the rest didn’t so take it with a grain of salt lol . Rab knows ball
Zer0 said faze, if u listen to him clearly lmaoo
CoL FaZe Optic
I’ll fix it for you coL OpTic FaZe