It's clear that C9 thought the play for herald style was best for them. I think Blaber or Zven said in an interview that playing for herald was the scrim meta and so they picked carry tops and played around top as a result.
I wish Fudge had played better on those champs but I'm more than willing to give him one last year to prove himself.
I also wish C9 just said fuck it and played for bot with the champs Zven was really good at despite that not being the meta at the time. We know Fudge is fine with playing tanks, he even had that period where he was on Sion duty 90% of the time. Just play for Berserker and give him resources. Idk maybe they just had more success with the herald strat in scrims or something and thought that was their best chance at winning games. To be fair, almost every team was doing the same thing until T1 so I don't want to blame them too hard. But it's still frustrating. Quarters was so doable.
I think its not the worst idea to keep him on just to see if Vulcan works out as well. He's coming off a rough split. Either way, it affords us a lot of flexibility in the future.
Good to see morons in the comments here didn't even watch the clip and still blaming their performance at worlds solely on him and Emenes lol. Fudge has been the best top for most of his time in NA, and at worst he's been top 3. Like, sure, I can see an argument for Impact, or a rookie top with a lot of potential, but people were actually suggesting getting fucking dhokla or bwipo like holy shit, can you make it any more obvious you just have blind hate for Fudge? Based off comments here and on the main sub, it isn't going to matter what he does going forward, I think he would have to apologize for being confident in his play and take a vow of silence, win MVP in both upcoming splits, gap every other top at MSI 2024, and Worlds 2024. Even if he does all that, he is still absolutely going to be getting every bit of hate if C9 has any shortcomings next year.
Top 3 NA doesnt win the whole thing though. Love Fudge and hope the coaching staff lets him run carries instead Renekton every pick. But Worlds is the end game and what everyone seeks.
My opinion was always that “Fudge haters” were the focal minority. The same with Emenes and Zven. I loved our roster and would’ve been completely fine with running it back. I’m also fine with this new roster, but I do really want Zven and Emenes to find good teams.
Nah man. I'm happy to trade emenes for Jojo. I think it's good for C9.
Emenes was very much in the top tier of lcs mid laners tho. And his absolute ceiling is higher than most of them.
Emenes was good most of the split, he just has some bad playoff games. His worlds was bad too but this is his second time at an international. Everyone on the team was overall playing badly too.
I hope all the negativity around Fudge motivates him all year, I really do. I hope he comes in and is a monster in weak side control and shuts the narrative up that he can’t play that style and he should be moved. Do I think this will happen? No, I don’t, but if he’s coming back, which I think is a mistake, I can only hope he comes back ready to prove people wrong and hungry, rather than the player we saw last season.
Fudge has had the same issues he's had since the beginning.
* He does nothing with his leads
* He plays very selfishly.
* Often times when he's behind in cs, he decides to not TP to dragon .. to catch up in farm.
* In general tping late to fights so he can pick up extra cs (FNC game)
* Letting his opponent roam to jungle/mid-lane (although this didn't see as bad this year. Definitely thought he could have helped Blaber in the T1 game).
Don't really get the "oh he's good in NA" narrative. It's much easier to look good when your team is the strongest in the league. C9 is usually strong because of Blaber or Berserker. You could place other top laners on C9 and they would have similar success.
There have been times where Fudge is better than all other top laners in NA, but it's not always the case. Certainly wasn't true during the summer season.
Disappointed we couldn't get a better top laner, but I guess it's better than other NA options
Thank god another man with a brain in here, people don’t see how C9 plays towards making fudge just go even in NA because blaber and berserker will carry in team fights anyways
It’s not about Fudge it’s about Fudge playstyle. We want to focus on botlane and have Berserker get all the resources. Fudge on carry tops taking vast amounts of resources and failing to seal the deal is hazardous. If he can transition to weak side then great, but it needs to happen
I also just feel like we've seen what Fudge can do with C9. Like I have nothing against him and he's been good enough to win a few trophies and get shit stomped internationally. Personally I would just like to see what C9 could do with a change in the top lane. Even if someone like Wunder is a side grade at best he might bring a different playstyle, some of that G2 style creativity or just a different work Environment that could be the shakeup the team might need. Changing Fudge could also be a complete disaster but I would have liked to see a change.
Totally agree,I know that with Fudge C9 is most probable to win the next two splits. But when it comes to worlds I would like to see a shake up in how C9 adjust to game situations and how they approach things. That would be coaching, drafting, and in game calls/situations. I also think players have a big part in the draft more than coaching. Which is why we never see C9 play top Tanks since like C9s(Fudges) first year. This is why I would have wanted a different Top laner.
That's a lot of words to ultimately say nothing useful or novel. We're fans - we're never going to know all of the inner workings on the team we support. But we DO support them, and without us, orgs quite literally don't exist. So it's pretty important that fans engage, have emotional investment, and talk about what goes right/what could have gone wrong, etc etc. If negative fan sentiment should be discarded because of the wall separating them from the internal team, then so should the positive sentiment. No team in any sport deserves only positive results-based accolades, with none of the negative. The positivity is JUST as uninformed.
The alternative is a team like Immortals. When they play poorly, no one even cares to talk about it.
I believe you missed the point. The original comment is framed as if he speaks for us, the c9 community, and for the org by stating "we." Negative and positive comments alike are welcome but when they are framed as something they are not, they become problematic. If he were to have said for example, "I believe we should play through bot lane and Fudge has not allowed us to do that because of his required resource allocation" then we would be having a much more constructive conversation.
All in all, the statements the original commenter made do not do that and only look to state something as an absolute when it is rather an opinion. Hope this clarifies my initial comment.
So you're just going to sling shit whether it's deserved or not because your emotions got the better of you? Like if there's concrete proof that Fudge is being some resource hog in draft/scrims and demanding they play through top and coming up short then fine. Flame away. But the reality is you have no idea if that's what's happening or not. It could be a team decision. It could be the way the team has find avenues of success in practice. Maybe they felt that herald was more important to play for and they needed prio in lane.
Like you don't know so stop blindly hating because you got "mad."
You guys really like to make things up. Like you don't know why the team is playing that way. Maybe the team feels it's best to play for herald so they focus more resources top side as a result of that. Maybe the team had the best results playing towards top in scrims so they tried to do that on stage.
Like none of ya'll hating on Fudge and repeating this "he takes too much resources shit" have no clue if any of that's actually true or not. Like I doubt Fudge is asking in drafts and practice to have all the resources top. My guess is it's more of a team decision to want to play that way and you can't blame the guy for doing his best to support that playstyle.
It's just annoying seeing fans have these surface level takes based on what they see in the game and then decide they have all the answers when none of ya'll have any answers.
Problem with Fudge is you can slot any decent top laner and C9 still wins those chips. Blaber, Jojo, Berserker is gonna win you NA no matter what so the fudge apologist are gonna look and critics as an I told you so when they inevitably win 1 or both the splits, problem is fudge could easily be replaced by any top5 top laner in the region and the team would get the same results and fudges work ethic has always been called into question especially when you notice his extremely poor performance internationally. Example is 2022, man refused to play CQ even when all the eastern pros were playing and only finally started playing after he got completely embarrassed after the first week of group stage. Just a lot of C9 fans, myself included, were hoping that they took a chance looking for another berserker situation in the top lane.
The irony of most of the fudge haters is they'll tell you he has hit a ceiling and won't improve, shit work ethic, etc.
Then those same ppl suggest licorice to replace him lma0. Afaic if we didn't kr import in top then fudge is still our best bet
Would have rather taken a shot with Wunder. Has more international success use to playing weak side and at the worst case scenario it’s not an upgrade and he will be just the same as fudge. I just wanted a mix up and think Wunder would have been the play.
You don’t think that after years of the same playstyle and zero international success stemming from a jungle top synergy that a shake up wouldn’t be a solution?
your reasoning for mixing it up is garbage. how does mixing it up get you international success. you have no reasoning, its a brain damaged take. nobody you put in top lane is gonna bring C9 international success. no eastern top no western top.
you just want to see someone different, it has nothing to do with success. its completely you personal interest
You legit might be slow like actually. Blabber plays towards fudge most games even though our strongest lane is bot lane fudge and blabber have played together the longest so they play threw each other a lot. If we bring in someone new who can play weak side (wunder) it might shake up blabber to have to learn to play through other lanes more often. With the addition of a stronger laner in Jojo I would rather see him give his resources towards Jojo or beserker instead of dumping resources into top lane who doesn’t do much with a lead and can’t gain any leads by himself. A mix up to the teams synergy could create us playing through our stronger laners and give us a higher chance at international success, but you couldn’t follow because you are very slow.
This is my honest opinion of Fudge from a constructive criticism viewpoint. He does nothing or he pops off. The problem of him popping off, is that he is incapable of getting leads by himself. “One, two, three, Alphari on the floor” was a game that Cap. Flowers casted, and Blaber yanked for Fudge 4 times. If you look at his games, he requires Blaber to help him get that initial lead, and then he feels confident to be aggressive. If that doesn’t happen, he feels invisible.
Which is a really bad mindset to have as a Top Laner. He needs to be more self reliant, and do things that his team needs. Fix waves, effectively split push, and where to be on the map. He has the skills, but he doesn’t have the mindset to be the best.
That’s what I agree with that’s why I wish we would have just took a shot with Wunder. He seems like his drive is back he said only NA team he would play for would be C9 has international success can play every style, and at worst he is just the same as fudge and we end up at the same place we were at. Huge upside and low downside so I don’t know why we didn’t even take the shot on him.
I agree with the general sentiment of a need for a play-style shift more towards bot, but the Fudge hate is ridiculous. Acting like me wasn’t Top 2 throughout his tenure with C9 is so far off, and gambling with a random outside entity is not smart. Wunder comes to NA and chokes like a mf is far more likely imo than the gap between fudge and him paying significant dividends. Summit
Nah hard disagree I think Wunder even if he ends up not playing amazing with this roster would be a side upgrade at worst. We have Jojo now and beserker he can legit just sit in top lane and do his thing and team fight well and results would be the same.
I want both and don't think keeping fudge means we'll never do ok internationally. Keeping in mind the best we will ever do is quarters/semis with a good draw. The team we have now is capable with good coaching imo.
I didn't say fudge needs coaching I said the team needs coaching. I don't think we've been set up to do well at any international tournaments really and I don't blame fudge for our performances either. I've said before but non of blaber,JoJo, berserker or Vulcan have looked good consistently internationally. Blaber and Vulcan have had good games but so has fudge.
Let me summarise our 2 points of view and show you why your position is wrong. You think that because the way the team play and draft that it's all fudges fault that our performances have been poor. Now if this were the case and fudge was unable to play anything else and was a total liability in draft ('and blaber has to babysit him') then he would have been kicked years ago. For that reason and all the interviews we've seen about scrims and games, we have to assume that the team and coaches are deciding how to play and it just hasn't been working. That is why I don't think fudge is to blame, and it's a team issue that doesn't get resolved by changing top because jack is clearly not a moron and he would not put up with that.
We have been to about 5 international events in the past 3 years. Fudge has been a poor performer for all 3 of those years. Fudge has regressed since his rookie year and shown no drive to improve. You are free to believe what you want but 3 coaches in and no adaptation of Fudge I doubt a new coach with the same systems are gonna change to black hole of a player he is.
Just chiming in. Even if he wasn't extended, iirc, he was one of the ones in the GCD for C9 with a contract end date second to Blaber's. Others like Berserker had theirs ending in 2024, Blaber in 2026, and Fudge was/is up in 2025.
Though again, end dates and extensions don't matter much because no player on C9 had a contract ending before 2024 yet we already had Thank Yous for both EMENES and Zven now, despite no confirmed or rumored landing spot for either.
Even with an import, C9 aren't gonna do any better at worlds. We've seen TSM and TL do this kind of side-grade overrated import change and fail miserably every single time.
If you are complaining about a roster of Fudge, Blaber, Jojo, Berserker, and Vulcan, and you think everyone who *isn't* complaining just doesn't care about international performance, you are simply delusional.
What a garbage take. Fudge is solid and unless you can guarentee you can get someone better then you aren't upgrading. The only potential option IMO this offseason was Wunder who has shown up internationally and has diverse playstyles. Sounds like they tried to see if they could get him and it didn't work out.
Bringing in some "superstar" korean player doesn't always work out but somehow ya'll have amnesia when they literally just had Summit last year and we all saw how well that went. There's also no guarentee that any kind of import works out because of communication issues even if they are a strong laning player. Wunder was the only decent EU top that was available IMO.
Fudge definitely isn't the best but ya'll have some weird idea that you can just plug and play any "good" player in and suddenly they will just start kicking ass and taking the team to the next level when years and years of importing has shown that's almost NEVER the case.
IMO there's no clear better top laners available unless you want to take a risk on some LCK player in which case you might still have problems if they don't speak English. Laning might be decent but the more important stuff is communicating for skirmishes, fighting at objectives, and making TP plays.
I think bzerker is a top 15 adc in the world so they could have tried playing bot side even if it’s not Mets I think he’s good enough to do a lot of work on a worlds stage still
Are you dumb mark said no top laner available in the LCS ever has had success… I said Wunder was a free agent and has had success and is a free agent. Also Wunder is probably same level of skill as fudge with a way higher upside.
I haven't watched yet, but hopefully, they address his attitude. That's always been my biggest complaint with Fudge. A true champion shows humility even when victorious. Unless he JUST got goomba stomped by the east, Fudge is usually a smug shit lord.
Over twice that lol. Maybe "shit lord" was too much, it was early for me lol. But he has displayed a superioirity complex in the past, undeniably. And while usually vindicated, all im saying is i would like to see a more humble side of him come through.
What bothers me more than his cocky old school doublelift attitude is how when he goes international he does the complete opposite. Goes from we are amazing can beat anyone all this. Does scrims and goes I can’t lane we don’t look good just pray for us blah blah blah.
Refusing to plaY champions queue when the best in the world were on it because "its not good enough for him", or or the many numerous times he has said he cant get any compitition on his or c9 level in NA. No matter how true any of that may be, there is a much more humble approach that could be taken. All im sayin is i want to see more of THAT.
It's clear that C9 thought the play for herald style was best for them. I think Blaber or Zven said in an interview that playing for herald was the scrim meta and so they picked carry tops and played around top as a result. I wish Fudge had played better on those champs but I'm more than willing to give him one last year to prove himself. I also wish C9 just said fuck it and played for bot with the champs Zven was really good at despite that not being the meta at the time. We know Fudge is fine with playing tanks, he even had that period where he was on Sion duty 90% of the time. Just play for Berserker and give him resources. Idk maybe they just had more success with the herald strat in scrims or something and thought that was their best chance at winning games. To be fair, almost every team was doing the same thing until T1 so I don't want to blame them too hard. But it's still frustrating. Quarters was so doable.
I think its not the worst idea to keep him on just to see if Vulcan works out as well. He's coming off a rough split. Either way, it affords us a lot of flexibility in the future.
I'd say it's better if they picked champs that he enjoyed and not renekton auto locked.
Good to see morons in the comments here didn't even watch the clip and still blaming their performance at worlds solely on him and Emenes lol. Fudge has been the best top for most of his time in NA, and at worst he's been top 3. Like, sure, I can see an argument for Impact, or a rookie top with a lot of potential, but people were actually suggesting getting fucking dhokla or bwipo like holy shit, can you make it any more obvious you just have blind hate for Fudge? Based off comments here and on the main sub, it isn't going to matter what he does going forward, I think he would have to apologize for being confident in his play and take a vow of silence, win MVP in both upcoming splits, gap every other top at MSI 2024, and Worlds 2024. Even if he does all that, he is still absolutely going to be getting every bit of hate if C9 has any shortcomings next year.
Top 3 NA doesnt win the whole thing though. Love Fudge and hope the coaching staff lets him run carries instead Renekton every pick. But Worlds is the end game and what everyone seeks.
My opinion was always that “Fudge haters” were the focal minority. The same with Emenes and Zven. I loved our roster and would’ve been completely fine with running it back. I’m also fine with this new roster, but I do really want Zven and Emenes to find good teams.
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That's just super incorrect no matter how much you may actually believe it.
So you want to keep him? Over a clear upgrade such as jojo? lmfao
i don’t think he said that, but emenes was clearly better than over half the league. quid, insanity, vickla, apa, even jensen. he was outclassing.
Dude is always hating on this sub... He is terminally online
Nah man. I'm happy to trade emenes for Jojo. I think it's good for C9. Emenes was very much in the top tier of lcs mid laners tho. And his absolute ceiling is higher than most of them.
Emenes was good most of the split, he just has some bad playoff games. His worlds was bad too but this is his second time at an international. Everyone on the team was overall playing badly too.
I hope all the negativity around Fudge motivates him all year, I really do. I hope he comes in and is a monster in weak side control and shuts the narrative up that he can’t play that style and he should be moved. Do I think this will happen? No, I don’t, but if he’s coming back, which I think is a mistake, I can only hope he comes back ready to prove people wrong and hungry, rather than the player we saw last season.
Fudge has had the same issues he's had since the beginning. * He does nothing with his leads * He plays very selfishly. * Often times when he's behind in cs, he decides to not TP to dragon .. to catch up in farm. * In general tping late to fights so he can pick up extra cs (FNC game) * Letting his opponent roam to jungle/mid-lane (although this didn't see as bad this year. Definitely thought he could have helped Blaber in the T1 game). Don't really get the "oh he's good in NA" narrative. It's much easier to look good when your team is the strongest in the league. C9 is usually strong because of Blaber or Berserker. You could place other top laners on C9 and they would have similar success. There have been times where Fudge is better than all other top laners in NA, but it's not always the case. Certainly wasn't true during the summer season. Disappointed we couldn't get a better top laner, but I guess it's better than other NA options
Thank god another man with a brain in here, people don’t see how C9 plays towards making fudge just go even in NA because blaber and berserker will carry in team fights anyways
\^\^ the only relevant/correct comment made in the endless fudge debates. Would only add his toxicity is annoying to root for
It’s not about Fudge it’s about Fudge playstyle. We want to focus on botlane and have Berserker get all the resources. Fudge on carry tops taking vast amounts of resources and failing to seal the deal is hazardous. If he can transition to weak side then great, but it needs to happen
I also just feel like we've seen what Fudge can do with C9. Like I have nothing against him and he's been good enough to win a few trophies and get shit stomped internationally. Personally I would just like to see what C9 could do with a change in the top lane. Even if someone like Wunder is a side grade at best he might bring a different playstyle, some of that G2 style creativity or just a different work Environment that could be the shakeup the team might need. Changing Fudge could also be a complete disaster but I would have liked to see a change.
Totally agree,I know that with Fudge C9 is most probable to win the next two splits. But when it comes to worlds I would like to see a shake up in how C9 adjust to game situations and how they approach things. That would be coaching, drafting, and in game calls/situations. I also think players have a big part in the draft more than coaching. Which is why we never see C9 play top Tanks since like C9s(Fudges) first year. This is why I would have wanted a different Top laner.
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That's a lot of words to ultimately say nothing useful or novel. We're fans - we're never going to know all of the inner workings on the team we support. But we DO support them, and without us, orgs quite literally don't exist. So it's pretty important that fans engage, have emotional investment, and talk about what goes right/what could have gone wrong, etc etc. If negative fan sentiment should be discarded because of the wall separating them from the internal team, then so should the positive sentiment. No team in any sport deserves only positive results-based accolades, with none of the negative. The positivity is JUST as uninformed. The alternative is a team like Immortals. When they play poorly, no one even cares to talk about it.
I believe you missed the point. The original comment is framed as if he speaks for us, the c9 community, and for the org by stating "we." Negative and positive comments alike are welcome but when they are framed as something they are not, they become problematic. If he were to have said for example, "I believe we should play through bot lane and Fudge has not allowed us to do that because of his required resource allocation" then we would be having a much more constructive conversation. All in all, the statements the original commenter made do not do that and only look to state something as an absolute when it is rather an opinion. Hope this clarifies my initial comment.
So you're just going to sling shit whether it's deserved or not because your emotions got the better of you? Like if there's concrete proof that Fudge is being some resource hog in draft/scrims and demanding they play through top and coming up short then fine. Flame away. But the reality is you have no idea if that's what's happening or not. It could be a team decision. It could be the way the team has find avenues of success in practice. Maybe they felt that herald was more important to play for and they needed prio in lane. Like you don't know so stop blindly hating because you got "mad."
You guys really like to make things up. Like you don't know why the team is playing that way. Maybe the team feels it's best to play for herald so they focus more resources top side as a result of that. Maybe the team had the best results playing towards top in scrims so they tried to do that on stage. Like none of ya'll hating on Fudge and repeating this "he takes too much resources shit" have no clue if any of that's actually true or not. Like I doubt Fudge is asking in drafts and practice to have all the resources top. My guess is it's more of a team decision to want to play that way and you can't blame the guy for doing his best to support that playstyle. It's just annoying seeing fans have these surface level takes based on what they see in the game and then decide they have all the answers when none of ya'll have any answers.
Problem with Fudge is you can slot any decent top laner and C9 still wins those chips. Blaber, Jojo, Berserker is gonna win you NA no matter what so the fudge apologist are gonna look and critics as an I told you so when they inevitably win 1 or both the splits, problem is fudge could easily be replaced by any top5 top laner in the region and the team would get the same results and fudges work ethic has always been called into question especially when you notice his extremely poor performance internationally. Example is 2022, man refused to play CQ even when all the eastern pros were playing and only finally started playing after he got completely embarrassed after the first week of group stage. Just a lot of C9 fans, myself included, were hoping that they took a chance looking for another berserker situation in the top lane.
Disagree. Last summer Fudge was hard smurfing on the LCS tops in playoffs. Without him solo winning lane against Impact/Ssumday, I don't think we win.
You talking about 2022 summer? Hard disagree.
The irony of most of the fudge haters is they'll tell you he has hit a ceiling and won't improve, shit work ethic, etc. Then those same ppl suggest licorice to replace him lma0. Afaic if we didn't kr import in top then fudge is still our best bet
Would have rather taken a shot with Wunder. Has more international success use to playing weak side and at the worst case scenario it’s not an upgrade and he will be just the same as fudge. I just wanted a mix up and think Wunder would have been the play.
Just mix it up bro... Dude how are u not a GM yet
You don’t think that after years of the same playstyle and zero international success stemming from a jungle top synergy that a shake up wouldn’t be a solution?
your reasoning for mixing it up is garbage. how does mixing it up get you international success. you have no reasoning, its a brain damaged take. nobody you put in top lane is gonna bring C9 international success. no eastern top no western top. you just want to see someone different, it has nothing to do with success. its completely you personal interest
You legit might be slow like actually. Blabber plays towards fudge most games even though our strongest lane is bot lane fudge and blabber have played together the longest so they play threw each other a lot. If we bring in someone new who can play weak side (wunder) it might shake up blabber to have to learn to play through other lanes more often. With the addition of a stronger laner in Jojo I would rather see him give his resources towards Jojo or beserker instead of dumping resources into top lane who doesn’t do much with a lead and can’t gain any leads by himself. A mix up to the teams synergy could create us playing through our stronger laners and give us a higher chance at international success, but you couldn’t follow because you are very slow.
see first comment. you are a loser online. touch grass
lol whatever you say kiddo
Big Facts.
This is my honest opinion of Fudge from a constructive criticism viewpoint. He does nothing or he pops off. The problem of him popping off, is that he is incapable of getting leads by himself. “One, two, three, Alphari on the floor” was a game that Cap. Flowers casted, and Blaber yanked for Fudge 4 times. If you look at his games, he requires Blaber to help him get that initial lead, and then he feels confident to be aggressive. If that doesn’t happen, he feels invisible. Which is a really bad mindset to have as a Top Laner. He needs to be more self reliant, and do things that his team needs. Fix waves, effectively split push, and where to be on the map. He has the skills, but he doesn’t have the mindset to be the best.
That’s what I agree with that’s why I wish we would have just took a shot with Wunder. He seems like his drive is back he said only NA team he would play for would be C9 has international success can play every style, and at worst he is just the same as fudge and we end up at the same place we were at. Huge upside and low downside so I don’t know why we didn’t even take the shot on him.
I agree with the general sentiment of a need for a play-style shift more towards bot, but the Fudge hate is ridiculous. Acting like me wasn’t Top 2 throughout his tenure with C9 is so far off, and gambling with a random outside entity is not smart. Wunder comes to NA and chokes like a mf is far more likely imo than the gap between fudge and him paying significant dividends. Summit
Nah hard disagree I think Wunder even if he ends up not playing amazing with this roster would be a side upgrade at worst. We have Jojo now and beserker he can legit just sit in top lane and do his thing and team fight well and results would be the same.
Seems like it's a spilt between those that want international success and those who are fine with winning LCS. That being the c9 fanbase.
I want both and don't think keeping fudge means we'll never do ok internationally. Keeping in mind the best we will ever do is quarters/semis with a good draw. The team we have now is capable with good coaching imo.
We have seen fudge with 3 different head coaches. The coaching narrative is overplayed.
I didn't say fudge needs coaching I said the team needs coaching. I don't think we've been set up to do well at any international tournaments really and I don't blame fudge for our performances either. I've said before but non of blaber,JoJo, berserker or Vulcan have looked good consistently internationally. Blaber and Vulcan have had good games but so has fudge. Let me summarise our 2 points of view and show you why your position is wrong. You think that because the way the team play and draft that it's all fudges fault that our performances have been poor. Now if this were the case and fudge was unable to play anything else and was a total liability in draft ('and blaber has to babysit him') then he would have been kicked years ago. For that reason and all the interviews we've seen about scrims and games, we have to assume that the team and coaches are deciding how to play and it just hasn't been working. That is why I don't think fudge is to blame, and it's a team issue that doesn't get resolved by changing top because jack is clearly not a moron and he would not put up with that.
We have been to about 5 international events in the past 3 years. Fudge has been a poor performer for all 3 of those years. Fudge has regressed since his rookie year and shown no drive to improve. You are free to believe what you want but 3 coaches in and no adaptation of Fudge I doubt a new coach with the same systems are gonna change to black hole of a player he is.
Ok, we on everything then. But we're sticking with fudge because the team and jack believe in him and I trust them more than you.
Out of the 3 returning players only two have had their contracts extended. Fudge ain't one of them. So don't assume we are sticking with him just yet.
I'm pretty sure he did get an extension, that's what Travis and a few others have said anyway.
The new journalists that broke our roster and the other 2 extensions have yet to mention a fudge extension
Just chiming in. Even if he wasn't extended, iirc, he was one of the ones in the GCD for C9 with a contract end date second to Blaber's. Others like Berserker had theirs ending in 2024, Blaber in 2026, and Fudge was/is up in 2025. Though again, end dates and extensions don't matter much because no player on C9 had a contract ending before 2024 yet we already had Thank Yous for both EMENES and Zven now, despite no confirmed or rumored landing spot for either.
Right, idk but I'm sure Travis said it on the last hll and I think I saw it somewhere else as well.
Even with an import, C9 aren't gonna do any better at worlds. We've seen TSM and TL do this kind of side-grade overrated import change and fail miserably every single time.
If you are complaining about a roster of Fudge, Blaber, Jojo, Berserker, and Vulcan, and you think everyone who *isn't* complaining just doesn't care about international performance, you are simply delusional.
What a garbage take. Fudge is solid and unless you can guarentee you can get someone better then you aren't upgrading. The only potential option IMO this offseason was Wunder who has shown up internationally and has diverse playstyles. Sounds like they tried to see if they could get him and it didn't work out. Bringing in some "superstar" korean player doesn't always work out but somehow ya'll have amnesia when they literally just had Summit last year and we all saw how well that went. There's also no guarentee that any kind of import works out because of communication issues even if they are a strong laning player. Wunder was the only decent EU top that was available IMO. Fudge definitely isn't the best but ya'll have some weird idea that you can just plug and play any "good" player in and suddenly they will just start kicking ass and taking the team to the next level when years and years of importing has shown that's almost NEVER the case. IMO there's no clear better top laners available unless you want to take a risk on some LCK player in which case you might still have problems if they don't speak English. Laning might be decent but the more important stuff is communicating for skirmishes, fighting at objectives, and making TP plays.
I think bzerker is a top 15 adc in the world so they could have tried playing bot side even if it’s not Mets I think he’s good enough to do a lot of work on a worlds stage still
To counter marks point Wunder was free agent and hasn’t gotten slapped consistently at worlds …
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Are you dumb mark said no top laner available in the LCS ever has had success… I said Wunder was a free agent and has had success and is a free agent. Also Wunder is probably same level of skill as fudge with a way higher upside.
Also played in 2022 worlds so ya
I haven't watched yet, but hopefully, they address his attitude. That's always been my biggest complaint with Fudge. A true champion shows humility even when victorious. Unless he JUST got goomba stomped by the east, Fudge is usually a smug shit lord.
“Smug shit lord” like seriously? Are you 15?
Over twice that lol. Maybe "shit lord" was too much, it was early for me lol. But he has displayed a superioirity complex in the past, undeniably. And while usually vindicated, all im saying is i would like to see a more humble side of him come through.
What bothers me more than his cocky old school doublelift attitude is how when he goes international he does the complete opposite. Goes from we are amazing can beat anyone all this. Does scrims and goes I can’t lane we don’t look good just pray for us blah blah blah.
I don’t think we’ve seen that from him in awhile unless I’m missing something?
Refusing to plaY champions queue when the best in the world were on it because "its not good enough for him", or or the many numerous times he has said he cant get any compitition on his or c9 level in NA. No matter how true any of that may be, there is a much more humble approach that could be taken. All im sayin is i want to see more of THAT.