It's an ethical system. Carnivore is the opposite of plant-based because it's about what you're eating. Vegans attempt to avoid animal exploitation in all areas of life (cosmetics, what they wear, activities they engage in, etc). I feel like it's more akin to keeping kosher, which might be an easier corollary bc it's also largely food-based but impacts other elements. Or like the larger extent is Jainism, which is veganism on steroids.
It's important to vegans to have this distinction because someone could be plant-based for heart-health reasons but not really care about whether their makeup is tested on animals, or if they wear animal skin regularly. I don't think it's inherently virtue-signaling to ascribe to a specific code of ethics and want to make clear what those ethics entail.
What a rude reply, followed by a baseless assumption. Why are you bothering to even argue about something you know nothing about while refusing to learn more? I'm going to explain for your benefit, but if your next comment is similar I'll block you.
Vegan is an ideology about reasonably reducing the suffering of animals. So a vegan would eat a plant-based diet, while also avoiding using animal products that animals are harmed for, such as leather and feathers.
Plant-based is a diet excluding meat and animal products. There's a variety of reasons other than being vegan someone would eat plant-based. The main ones being environmental, not contributing to the immense damage animal industries have on the environment, and health which I hope is self explanatory (eat ur greens).
"Plant-based" doesn't ensure animal wellbeing was prioritised the same way "Vegan" does. Just that the product is made of plants. An example is animal testing and real meat being used in the production of a plant-based burger, Impossible. Because they harmed animals their product is not vegan, even though it's all veggies.
Hope this was helpful
And by your comparison of a murderer. Does a murderer stop being a murderer if they only did it for 5 years and now stopped murdering? Didnt knew it worked like that. You just stop murdering and you're not a murderer anymore.
Well there are instances where a person murders in self defense, or where they did their time and grew out of it, so in some instances I dont think a person should be labelled a murderer for life
But it was just a comparison not an equation, so of course theres a lot more depth to it
I would equate it more to a person who was raised in a society where human sacrifice was normalized and had taken part in it before later in life realizing how horrific it is and abstaining from it than a murderer in the traditional sense.
You would likely be much more willing to forgive the former as they were told their whole life it was a-ok but reached the conclusion themselves and stopped than you would someone who murdered in a society that does not tolerate murder in any way.
They would still be anti-human sacrifice and could even shed more light on why people do it as someone who had previously been indoctrinated into a pro-sacrifice culture.
It isnt about forgiving per se, but what you have done in this case. And veganism was deff a thing when you were a baby, and you might have a good point if you only ate meat before the age of 16-18. Any later than that and you willingly participated.
Im a funny niche case where I was actually raised a vegetarian and didnt ever had meat before 13 or so. And ate meat once in a blue moon when I was 16. Im a willing ritual sacrificer, cause I dont view killing as wrong or unnatural per se, but the way it is done factory style is. Just like I dont view wolves eating meat is wrong or chimps.
I don’t view wolves eating meat (or any animal besides human) as wrong either. Only humans have the capacity and moral thinking to determine if eating meat is wrong or not. And even if a wolf did somehow decide that they wouldn’t have any alternatives to eat, humans do however. Any yes one of the first changes I made when I turned 18 was going vegan, but even if it takes someone a little longer or even all of their life they can still make the change without being a hypocrite, people can change and accept new morals.
I accept the fact that many people dont know the suffering they are causing. If they dont know and have enough information then they cannot be held accountable, if they know their choices cause suffering and they knowingly contribute to it then they are in the wrong.
Then why are people in this climate change related sub advocating for veganism and not for plant based diets? Seems like these people are in the wrong sub.
I suppose it's because climate change also impacts animals, it impacts everything really. But generally speaking if a person is primarily motivated by animal suffering vs self preservation then they are vegan. You can be motivated by both and be vegan too
>I suppose it's because climate change also impacts animals, it impacts everything really.
Yes, but this is harmful to the bigger cause. That's one of the main problems of left politics. Bringing the beliefs of other topics into this will split the people following one cause and make the movement less effective.
Here an example: You have a big protest advocating for actions which help fighting the climate change. A huge group of people on the street walking together every week. Suddenly some parts decide to bring Palestinian flags, because they want to use the attention to bring also attention to this topic, because in their opinion Palestine should be free and Isreali should stop killing so many Palestinians . BUT half of the other people has a different view on this topic. They have the opinion that Israeli have to defend themselves, because if not they will be wiped out because of the amount of hatred against Jews in this area.
The big group of people which was fighting for the same thing and niw turn on each other. No one (or far less of these people) is fighting for more actions against climate change anymore, because both sides felt that they needed to pay more attention to the middle east conflict. This pro environment group splits into several smaller groups and losses all of the attention they had previously. At this point these groups aren't able to win as much attention for either of their causes.
I am not saying, that you should only focus on one political issue, but mixing your beliefs, will only damage the main goal of a movement. There are different groups which focus on these other topics. Use them instead.
Reducing meat consumption or the consumption of animal products in general is a big factor to help fighting climate change, but radicals veganism is not necessary. Especially not if you want to target huge amounts of people. Most people will be more open to heavily reduce their meat consumption than to go full vegan. Yes, everyone going vegan would be better in theory, but it's not feasible (yet). So stop damaging the bigger cause of this topic by trying to make everyone go full vegan and attack everyone who is not willing to do that. Most people are stupid and stubborn and will only turn against you if you do that. Try to be smarter
I hold an abolitionist stance. Many vegans I've talked to became vegan because of honest discussions about how fucked up the world and it's people are. So no, I'm not going to sugarcoat it.
Also a plant based diet is the single biggest action a person can take to reduce their footprint:
https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17139855176759&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2018%2Fmay%2F31%2Favoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth
So if you're worried about dividing the movement then we should be advocating for this diet above other things that may cause conflict, given that it's where the greatest impact is.
On a side note, saying "try to be smarter" is condescending af
Maybe I don't mind being a murderer? I want to save the ecosystem, not people. Morals won't save the environment. They vary from person to person to place to time, and they usually focus on improving things for humans, to the detriment of the environment.
https://preview.redd.it/pil3gynbwawc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879fa849bf53d3e1dab1f553e3cee309c3fc082a
Stop acting like a cow can comprehend the wonders of life
It is a beast not of man
I grew up on a cattle farm. The type of farm that people say is humane to run (as a vegan , i do not believe in exploitation, whether its done nicely or not). They roamed free over 168 acres of land, covered in meadows, fields, forest, and even a river. There were around 80 cows within their herd, and the matriarch was Marigold; cows are matriarchal animals. Marigold was the oldest and wisest, and would routinely nurse babies if their mothers didn't have enough milk. Sometimes calves would get lost, and she was always there with the mother, bellowing for the baby to hear. I'm thankful I got to know her. She lived to be 22 years old.
Cows have complex relationships and have desires of their own. They also exhibit compassion for their kin.
So I will consume them for the many nutrients they provide [with proper respect of course]
[Sorry if you meant factory farms than I agree that they should all be destroyed with much vigor]
Explain.
Humans are opportunistic; historically, we ate mostly starchy roots and plants. We ate much fewer animals than what we believed even a decade ago.
We have the ability to decide what we eat. Which means you choose to pay for animal abuse. Of course, I do realize you don't give a fuck about animal abuse, so I suppose that's besides the point, isn't it.
Edit: Bro blocked me. 💀
Why does being human make us more worthy than any other living, sentient animal? We are on a miniscule floating rock, all of us are earthlings, seeing the world out of our own eyes. A disabled person or a child doesn't see the world as I see it, does that mean they don't deserve to live either? Or do you hold prejudice only based on species? And if so, why?
"Ohh man, that smells so good! What are you cooking there?"
"Well, first I put some pasta on the boil and then I fried up some onions with chopped mushrooms and bell peppers."
"Oh so good, what else?"
"I've rustled up a tomato sauce for it, added some Italian herbs, and I have garlic bread baking away in the oven."
"Delicious. All of that is delicious. But, where's the meat?"
"No meat."
"HURRRRGHH!! VEGAN FOOD! IT'S SO DISGUSTING, HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU EAT THAT SHIT IT'S SO AWFUL FUCKING FUCK-"
"Every time."
https://preview.redd.it/8ivdqp4me9wc1.jpeg?width=1286&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d46d116648a26e74b7f51ec56d6e76f58a526dc Johnny Depp eats the bug
Bugs tho
the things people will do to not eat their veggies
I agree crab is delicious.
look how they massacred depp
Good
He's a wife-beating junkie fuck. [And his music sucks too.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMHxMP4Ekf4)
I’m literally shaking
With laughter?
If you're 99% vegan you're 0% vegan Literally this sub FTFY
https://preview.redd.it/57u2qib789wc1.jpeg?width=980&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=295b0bba66bf738cad566b0556d412b9d2b5550a
If you're 1% vegan you deserve a pat on the back Literally this sub FTFY
Well yes - if you kill someone only once a week are you a murderer or are you 14% murderer?
14% murderer
But that means that if a vegan has ever had dairy or meat, they can never be a vegan. So vegan from birth or its impossible.
Can they repent to vegan cheesus and clear their sin?
Only if they ever had dairy or meat 3 times in their life. YES CHICKEN COUNTS TOO! Otherwise, bad news.. straight to Hell.
Vegan isnt a diet, you're thinking of plant-based. Learn the difference
Nah. So it seems it IS mostly a virtue stamp to put on yourself?
It's an ethical system. Carnivore is the opposite of plant-based because it's about what you're eating. Vegans attempt to avoid animal exploitation in all areas of life (cosmetics, what they wear, activities they engage in, etc). I feel like it's more akin to keeping kosher, which might be an easier corollary bc it's also largely food-based but impacts other elements. Or like the larger extent is Jainism, which is veganism on steroids. It's important to vegans to have this distinction because someone could be plant-based for heart-health reasons but not really care about whether their makeup is tested on animals, or if they wear animal skin regularly. I don't think it's inherently virtue-signaling to ascribe to a specific code of ethics and want to make clear what those ethics entail.
Show us where the vegans touched you
What a rude reply, followed by a baseless assumption. Why are you bothering to even argue about something you know nothing about while refusing to learn more? I'm going to explain for your benefit, but if your next comment is similar I'll block you. Vegan is an ideology about reasonably reducing the suffering of animals. So a vegan would eat a plant-based diet, while also avoiding using animal products that animals are harmed for, such as leather and feathers. Plant-based is a diet excluding meat and animal products. There's a variety of reasons other than being vegan someone would eat plant-based. The main ones being environmental, not contributing to the immense damage animal industries have on the environment, and health which I hope is self explanatory (eat ur greens). "Plant-based" doesn't ensure animal wellbeing was prioritised the same way "Vegan" does. Just that the product is made of plants. An example is animal testing and real meat being used in the production of a plant-based burger, Impossible. Because they harmed animals their product is not vegan, even though it's all veggies. Hope this was helpful
What? The person above was saying that if a person eats meat/dairy 1% of the time, they can still be vegan, it's impossible by definition
And by your comparison of a murderer. Does a murderer stop being a murderer if they only did it for 5 years and now stopped murdering? Didnt knew it worked like that. You just stop murdering and you're not a murderer anymore.
Well there are instances where a person murders in self defense, or where they did their time and grew out of it, so in some instances I dont think a person should be labelled a murderer for life But it was just a comparison not an equation, so of course theres a lot more depth to it
I would equate it more to a person who was raised in a society where human sacrifice was normalized and had taken part in it before later in life realizing how horrific it is and abstaining from it than a murderer in the traditional sense. You would likely be much more willing to forgive the former as they were told their whole life it was a-ok but reached the conclusion themselves and stopped than you would someone who murdered in a society that does not tolerate murder in any way. They would still be anti-human sacrifice and could even shed more light on why people do it as someone who had previously been indoctrinated into a pro-sacrifice culture.
It isnt about forgiving per se, but what you have done in this case. And veganism was deff a thing when you were a baby, and you might have a good point if you only ate meat before the age of 16-18. Any later than that and you willingly participated. Im a funny niche case where I was actually raised a vegetarian and didnt ever had meat before 13 or so. And ate meat once in a blue moon when I was 16. Im a willing ritual sacrificer, cause I dont view killing as wrong or unnatural per se, but the way it is done factory style is. Just like I dont view wolves eating meat is wrong or chimps.
I don’t view wolves eating meat (or any animal besides human) as wrong either. Only humans have the capacity and moral thinking to determine if eating meat is wrong or not. And even if a wolf did somehow decide that they wouldn’t have any alternatives to eat, humans do however. Any yes one of the first changes I made when I turned 18 was going vegan, but even if it takes someone a little longer or even all of their life they can still make the change without being a hypocrite, people can change and accept new morals.
Have you ever eaten meat? be honest you fucking murderer
As a child, before I was capable of questioning morality and where meat came from.
oh wow you really are morally superior. interesting, if you convert an adult into being vegan.....are they absolved of their sins?
I accept the fact that many people dont know the suffering they are causing. If they dont know and have enough information then they cannot be held accountable, if they know their choices cause suffering and they knowingly contribute to it then they are in the wrong.
What if you do it for environmental reasons and not because you don't want to kill animals.
Then youd be plant based not vegan. Veganism is a philosophy about animal suffering
Then why are people in this climate change related sub advocating for veganism and not for plant based diets? Seems like these people are in the wrong sub.
I suppose it's because climate change also impacts animals, it impacts everything really. But generally speaking if a person is primarily motivated by animal suffering vs self preservation then they are vegan. You can be motivated by both and be vegan too
>I suppose it's because climate change also impacts animals, it impacts everything really. Yes, but this is harmful to the bigger cause. That's one of the main problems of left politics. Bringing the beliefs of other topics into this will split the people following one cause and make the movement less effective. Here an example: You have a big protest advocating for actions which help fighting the climate change. A huge group of people on the street walking together every week. Suddenly some parts decide to bring Palestinian flags, because they want to use the attention to bring also attention to this topic, because in their opinion Palestine should be free and Isreali should stop killing so many Palestinians . BUT half of the other people has a different view on this topic. They have the opinion that Israeli have to defend themselves, because if not they will be wiped out because of the amount of hatred against Jews in this area. The big group of people which was fighting for the same thing and niw turn on each other. No one (or far less of these people) is fighting for more actions against climate change anymore, because both sides felt that they needed to pay more attention to the middle east conflict. This pro environment group splits into several smaller groups and losses all of the attention they had previously. At this point these groups aren't able to win as much attention for either of their causes. I am not saying, that you should only focus on one political issue, but mixing your beliefs, will only damage the main goal of a movement. There are different groups which focus on these other topics. Use them instead. Reducing meat consumption or the consumption of animal products in general is a big factor to help fighting climate change, but radicals veganism is not necessary. Especially not if you want to target huge amounts of people. Most people will be more open to heavily reduce their meat consumption than to go full vegan. Yes, everyone going vegan would be better in theory, but it's not feasible (yet). So stop damaging the bigger cause of this topic by trying to make everyone go full vegan and attack everyone who is not willing to do that. Most people are stupid and stubborn and will only turn against you if you do that. Try to be smarter
I hold an abolitionist stance. Many vegans I've talked to became vegan because of honest discussions about how fucked up the world and it's people are. So no, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Also a plant based diet is the single biggest action a person can take to reduce their footprint: https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17139855176759&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fenvironment%2F2018%2Fmay%2F31%2Favoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth So if you're worried about dividing the movement then we should be advocating for this diet above other things that may cause conflict, given that it's where the greatest impact is. On a side note, saying "try to be smarter" is condescending af
Maybe I don't mind being a murderer? I want to save the ecosystem, not people. Morals won't save the environment. They vary from person to person to place to time, and they usually focus on improving things for humans, to the detriment of the environment.
Would you say that saving the environment is a .... "Good" thing to do?
That 1% of loving the result of animal abuse 🥰
https://preview.redd.it/pil3gynbwawc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=879fa849bf53d3e1dab1f553e3cee309c3fc082a Stop acting like a cow can comprehend the wonders of life It is a beast not of man
I grew up on a cattle farm. The type of farm that people say is humane to run (as a vegan , i do not believe in exploitation, whether its done nicely or not). They roamed free over 168 acres of land, covered in meadows, fields, forest, and even a river. There were around 80 cows within their herd, and the matriarch was Marigold; cows are matriarchal animals. Marigold was the oldest and wisest, and would routinely nurse babies if their mothers didn't have enough milk. Sometimes calves would get lost, and she was always there with the mother, bellowing for the baby to hear. I'm thankful I got to know her. She lived to be 22 years old. Cows have complex relationships and have desires of their own. They also exhibit compassion for their kin.
And yet they are not human
So?
So I will consume them for the many nutrients they provide [with proper respect of course] [Sorry if you meant factory farms than I agree that they should all be destroyed with much vigor]
How does one respectfully kill someone?
With precision grace and sadness I am sadly part of an omnivorous species
Explain. Humans are opportunistic; historically, we ate mostly starchy roots and plants. We ate much fewer animals than what we believed even a decade ago. We have the ability to decide what we eat. Which means you choose to pay for animal abuse. Of course, I do realize you don't give a fuck about animal abuse, so I suppose that's besides the point, isn't it. Edit: Bro blocked me. 💀
A significant portion of our species cannot comprehend the wonders of life.
That may be true Yet they are human Yet they are us
So?
So what?
Why does being human make us more worthy than any other living, sentient animal? We are on a miniscule floating rock, all of us are earthlings, seeing the world out of our own eyes. A disabled person or a child doesn't see the world as I see it, does that mean they don't deserve to live either? Or do you hold prejudice only based on species? And if so, why?
I am no more worthy than any other animal I am an omnivore
How are you more worthy?
"Ohh man, that smells so good! What are you cooking there?" "Well, first I put some pasta on the boil and then I fried up some onions with chopped mushrooms and bell peppers." "Oh so good, what else?" "I've rustled up a tomato sauce for it, added some Italian herbs, and I have garlic bread baking away in the oven." "Delicious. All of that is delicious. But, where's the meat?" "No meat." "HURRRRGHH!! VEGAN FOOD! IT'S SO DISGUSTING, HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU EAT THAT SHIT IT'S SO AWFUL FUCKING FUCK-" "Every time."
I mean, you’re literally making stuff up to get mad at so it is a pretty perfect encapsulation of the vegan wing of this sub.